turns out, the bare bones of how phasers work, and why some ships might 'arbitrarily' have split up arrays, are 2 different subjects. one is layed out plain, and the other can only be subject to theory.
less then 0 substance from you as usual, only attempted gotchas.
the closest thing i can come up with on reasoning for so called splitting unnecessarily of arrays, is that the EPS system on these smaller ships can only handle the power draw of arrays the size that they are, wile maintaining acceptable rate of fire, and not dimming the lights or compromising the power of other systems wile trying to recharge a whole array. on all these ships with split arrays though, their size and array length proportion is still about the same as the galaxy's ratio.
I don't know, while the EPS systems are longer ultimately if phasers drew power like that, even a Galaxy would have localized power drop off when they're fired.
yes but the tubes on the galaxy are huge, the launch tube is actually 50 meters long, end to end they could load 24 torpedoes into it, more if the tube has a circumference larger enough to stack several on top of each other. that long tube seems to have a rail gun effect too, several times in tng torps have flown out hyper accelerated.
But we know she fires 10 at a time. We also know that unless at warp all Photon Torpedoes are sublight. But yes, it is a magnetic accelerator launcher.
the sovereign has a lot of tubes, but they area ll pretty small, and there's not much of a barrel on any of them, just the loader and the launch port. i count 6 burst 3 photon tubes in 3 sets of 2, the burst 3 quantum tube, and 3 or 4 single shot tubes. all these can throw a lot of torps around too, and is very decentralized compared to the galaxy. i tend to think the ships are tied in torpedo output, with the akira actually having a slight edge over both.
Well torpedoes are self propelled in the end so the launcher pretty much just has to get out and it can go under its own power.
I think the Sovereign has superior torpedo output compared to the Galaxy, but the Akira is over both of them. A dedicated torpedo boat and light carrier.
I kinda wish they would put the Defiant Pathfinder edition of the Nova, with the torpedo bank where the Secondary Deflector ended up.
the glow effect bouncing back and forth, that would look odd. they might as well just fire a second shot, doubling dipping as all the emitters trying to recharge might lead to dissipating the phased energy more then adding to it. they are called 'rapid' nadions after all.
Actually I think it happened once or twice where it ran the length a couple of times. It would be an overcharged shot.
The Rapid Nadion effect is responsible for the generation of the beam, but a phaser isn't actually a nadion beam, if a phaser beam dissipated so quickly it wouldn't be a usable weapon.
The reason for splitting them on the Intrepid class is the larger than average secondary deflector on the top. The bottom could be because the pointier noses on ships prevented the array from being carried all the way around. That could apply to the Sovereign bottom as well (also covers the Prometheus). The top on the Sovereign goes around a more rounded area.
The bottom of the Sovereigns saucer has a row of forward facing lights, that are actually a secondary deflector. (confirmed on the MSD if you don't believe me)
It's possible that having phasers and this deflector in line could be detrimental to one or the other and so the array was broken up to allow for this.
The Ambassador was an intermediary between banks and arrays. Splitting provides no benefit. Maybe the arrays at the time couldn't be as long. There's 19 years between the C and the D for technological improvements in that area.
Correct. The Ambassador doesn't factor in as it precedes.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Yes bc I'm sick of having to retype and retype with you around this subject.
The Nth degree, All Good Things, Darmok, BoBW,
All explain how to increase weapon power output and they all involve isolating emitters and increasing power via the EPS grid using warp power NOT charging the entire phaser array.
The length=more powerful blast you made up. A standard phaser blast works the way you state by transfering power along the array to the firing point but the added length of the array does not add more power.
Everytime they needed a more powerful blast on TNG they use a tiny portion of the array the exact opposite of how you say makes it stronger.
As for the torps rewatch Nemesis and you'll see 9 shot burst from both forward photon and quantum launchers AND the top rear photon launcher.
BoBW? were the ship shot nothing but full array discharges pretty much each time, at an impressive rate of fire?
Darmok, with simply the most obvious fx error in the franchise?
All Good Things? were the only phaser fired was the lance that is an entirely different weapon from an array?
The Nth degree, right after some typical unintelligible techno babel gibberish, this time about phasers, Barkley hit 10 buttons and made the shields 300% stronger. what ever happened to that? that would have put federation shield tech a century beyond anyone else. not to mention the tech behind the rift Barkley created that moved the ship 30k lightyears in a mater of seconds. they never mentioned that tech being removed from any record. it was a good episode, but silly, full of quantum leaps and bable that never poped up again.
warp power is plasma, everything runs on it, all reactors on the ships produce it, diverting warp power to something is as dramatic as pluging something into an outlet.
i didn't make up length=power, length=more emitters, emitters that are described as self contained phaser banks with their own capacitors, own prefire chamber, own ability to fire independent of the whole rest of the array. but they can combine all or some of their power into a single shot. the visual effects in the show and details in the manual fit together perfectly, the more emitters available to lend their power to a shot, the more powerful a shot can be.
I wonder, seeing as there's 110 pages of this thread, if that having the Galaxy be a viable end-game ship might be a deal maker or breaker for new players. If, say, Cryptic was having an event specifically to grab new players it might just make sense to have a decent showing of one of the more iconic Star Trek ships to keep them around.
When I started playing this game I wanted to fly the Enterprise D or E, and if I had known that neither was that great at the time (this was before the Regent and the Fleet System) with the game being in full 'Escorts Online' mode I probably wouldn't have stuck around. Only the Enterpise F freebie kept me around with it's Lt. Comm Uni giving much needed damage with a Tac slotted. The E is a lot better now with the Regent and FACR being able to pull their weight in damage output, but the D is stuck in a role that has little place in the game currently and the new queues don't look to be changing that.
As far as what Cryptic has done in the past, the T6 lineup has more exceptions of the 'rules' each time they release a new set. First it was Intel with only full 'Intel' ships having a Commander and Lt. Hybrids, with non-Intel ships being limited to Lt. max, with all Hybrids being fixed classic 'Professions'. Then the Shesar comes out, Lt. Comm Intel. Then Command ships, entirely new Hybrid set with no Intel on them. JHSS comes out, Both Intel and Command, and one is Universal Profession. Both Command and Intel have special integrated functions (Inspiration and Gather Intel, respectively) that made some sense that not every ship would have or be easily refit-able to (Stealth functions of Intel, whatever extra Comms and sensors needed for 'Inspiration'). There's been no announcement of any new integrated functions for Pilot, so maybe the guidelines for for new ships for what can have Commander rank abilties is more flexible. Every ship has a Pilot of some sort, maybe the extra Pilot abilitiy thrusters, emitters, or whatever are easily fit-able on a ship undergoing retrofitting in drydock, but not deployable to ships out in the field.
The Eclipse BOff layout modified for Pilot instead of Intel would be a solid, but not OP, option. If you wanted to take the BOff build off an existing Galaxy it would fit just fine, just need to pick a new Tactical ability. Fairly sizable jump in Tactical Profession abilities with one higher rank ability and the option of an Ensign ability. Still a bit light in that in that department, though, which is where the Engineering/Pilot Commander would fit in, with Attack Pattern Lambda and Reroute Weapon Reserves making it a solid contender. Unless APL and RWR are insanely OP in practice, and with either a 3 Tac or 2 Tac console layout, this will still not hold a candle to a Scimitar in damage output, so not OP giving plenty of room to sell other ships based mostly on stats, but still solid enough that a player wouldn't be disappointed in it either.
I wonder, seeing as there's 110 pages of this thread, if that having the Galaxy be a viable end-game ship might be a deal maker or breaker for new players. If, say, Cryptic was having an event specifically to grab new players it might just make sense to have a decent showing of one of the more iconic Star Trek ships to keep them around.
When I started playing this game I wanted to fly the Enterprise D or E, and if I had known that neither was that great at the time (this was before the Regent and the Fleet System) with the game being in full 'Escorts Online' mode I probably wouldn't have stuck around. Only the Enterpise F freebie kept me around with it's Lt. Comm Uni giving much needed damage with a Tac slotted. The E is a lot better now with the Regent and FACR being able to pull their weight in damage output, but the D is stuck in a role that has little place in the game currently and the new queues don't look to be changing that.
As far as what Cryptic has done in the past, the T6 lineup has more exceptions of the 'rules' each time they release a new set. First it was Intel with only full 'Intel' ships having a Commander and Lt. Hybrids, with non-Intel ships being limited to Lt. max, with all Hybrids being fixed classic 'Professions'. Then the Shesar comes out, Lt. Comm Intel. Then Command ships, entirely new Hybrid set with no Intel on them. JHSS comes out, Both Intel and Command, and one is Universal Profession. Both Command and Intel have special integrated functions (Inspiration and Gather Intel, respectively) that made some sense that not every ship would have or be easily refit-able to (Stealth functions of Intel, whatever extra Comms and sensors needed for 'Inspiration'). There's been no announcement of any new integrated functions for Pilot, so maybe the guidelines for for new ships for what can have Commander rank abilties is more flexible. Every ship has a Pilot of some sort, maybe the extra Pilot abilitiy thrusters, emitters, or whatever are easily fit-able on a ship undergoing retrofitting in drydock, but not deployable to ships out in the field.
The Eclipse BOff layout modified for Pilot instead of Intel would be a solid, but not OP, option. If you wanted to take the BOff build off an existing Galaxy it would fit just fine, just need to pick a new Tactical ability. Fairly sizable jump in Tactical Profession abilities with one higher rank ability and the option of an Ensign ability. Still a bit light in that in that department, though, which is where the Engineering/Pilot Commander would fit in, with Attack Pattern Lambda and Reroute Weapon Reserves making it a solid contender. Unless APL and RWR are insanely OP in practice, and with either a 3 Tac or 2 Tac console layout, this will still not hold a candle to a Scimitar in damage output, so not OP giving plenty of room to sell other ships based mostly on stats, but still solid enough that a player wouldn't be disappointed in it either.
This pretty much. So many of my pals i started the game with left because their favorite ship was left in a rot.
I also agree that we should just retool the eclipses boff layout for pilot or command.
What is this babbling about the Galaxy left to rot and not viable? Seriously. Debating about in-game representation of the canon ship is one thing. But all the "it needs CMDR tac or bust" nonsense really gets to me lately. The Galaxy is the way it is due to long since overhauled metagame design, this is true. And Engineering skills need a workover they probably never get. But all this ranting about "I want the bestest ship evar now!" - and no, it's nothing different, demanding a commander spec station which defies all in-game logic that's left, is really just that.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
What is this babbling about the Galaxy left to rot and not viable? Seriously. Debating about in-game representation of the canon ship is one thing. But all the "it needs CMDR tac or bust" nonsense really gets to me lately. The Galaxy is the way it is due to long since overhauled metagame design, this is true. And Engineering skills need a workover they probably never get. But all this ranting about "I want the bestest ship evar now!" - and no, it's nothing different, demanding a commander spec station which defies all in-game logic that's left, is really just that.
The galaxy was left in a rot the moment the game made tactical team mandatory.
The moment when the Excelsior came in and overshadowed it AND and sovereign in one fell swoop.
The Ambassador nailed that coffin shut.
Oh not to mention the horrible model that was there for an unbearable amount of time (that alone has ended several starfleet careers).
With both the excelsior and the Regent, the Ambassador and all the lockbox ships cryptic have already demonstrated that their stated ethos on ship statting is complete and utter arbitrary BS. The reason they take one dump after another on the iconic ships is that they know that having these ships being good means that their other sales will evaporate into happy thoughts and jack shiite in a box.
Now, asking for a new galaxy to be set up like a command cruiser or taking up the eclipse seating and switching it up or mirroring the ambassador in terms of seatings is neither asking for a pwnmobile nor is it asking for a detour from ship ctryptics statting ethos, since they have none.
No reasonable person here has asked for the best, we ask for competent. Able. On equal footing.
So stop accusing us of ranting "I want the bestest ship evar now!" because thats not what we do.
You have to learn to differentiate between discussions about canon related issues (like arrays for example) and actual discussions about ship stats.
The galaxy was left in a rot the moment the game made tactical team mandatory.
I will agree that the teams are unbalanced and should get a workover, especially to make lvl II and III teams a real option. But mandatory? I haven't slotted TT on my Galaxy for years and I never needed it (thanks to the TSS transporter doff, that is true). So I cannot, personally, see that TT is "mandatory".
The moment when the Excelsior came in and overshadowed it AND and sovereign in one fell swoop.
The Ambassador nailed that coffin shut.
I exlained why that is a few posts ago. Both the Galaxy and the Sovereign are launch ships - the Galaxy wasn't even T5, the Retrofit came a bit later. Those ships operate in the trinity model the game once had. All cruisers, all science ships and all escorts were the same back then, only shuffling around a ensign station. When they reached the limits of what you can do they introduced ships with secondary skills - a LTC of different "profession".
When they did that, the Galaxy already had a retrofit, the ship existed - so changing it wasn't an option. So they choose the Excelsior retrofit, that didn't exist yet to fill the tac cruiser role - be glad they chose a canon ship at all. The Ambassador takign the sci LTC came much, much later but it's position is entirely logical in Cryptic's ship design ethos. All those ships shuffle around some stuff and the Intrepid/Galaxy/Defiant form the edges of the triangle. Now, having canonically older ships fill positions that suggest they have more firepower or more science potential as the Galaxy doesn't make logical sense, I never will fight anyone on that. But really their hands were tied to change the Galaxy since it already existed and it's layout was and is - in theory - completely viable.
The problem is not the layout but the skills itself. Cryptic has to openly adress the issue that of the high end engineering skills, which the Galaxy happens to have two off, none are actually desireable and Aceton Beam and Boarding Party do not even work in the current game due to subsystem immunity and health/damage buff of NPCs. That is pressing issue, but just closing one's eyes and demand "just put tac there" doesn't solve the issue.
I separate this from canon discussions - in terms of gameplay there is nothing wrong with the Galaxy in theory. In practice the gameplay/metagame is "sick" and that needs treatment.
Oh not to mention the horrible model that was there for an unbearable amount of time (that alone has ended several starfleet careers).
No argument at this point, I completely agree
With both the excelsior and the Regent, the Ambassador and all the lockbox ships cryptic have already demonstrated that their stated ethos on ship statting is complete and utter arbitrary BS. The reason they take one dump after another on the iconic ships is that they know that having these ships being good means that their other sales will evaporate into happy thoughts and jack shiite in a box.
The ship statting does actually follow a pattern, as I said before. Launch ships: different ensign. Retrofits different LTCs. Flag ships uni LTC as "Jack of all trades". Later they shoved some retrofits to the fleet store adding universal low stations (Cheyenne etc.). The Regent came afterwards when it was obvious that T5 ships hit a wall and they were flat out going for power creep with every new ship being better and lockbox ships usually operating outside of all rules and being the best available. This is F2P. This is what the players wanted, to this day "screaming" at people criticizing this business model. It is bonkers, but it's never going to change now.
Now, asking for a new galaxy to be set up like a command cruiser or taking up the eclipse seating and switching it up or mirroring the ambassador in terms of seatings is neither asking for a pwnmobile nor is it asking for a detour from ship ctryptics statting ethos, since they have none.
No reasonable person here has asked for the best, we ask for competent. Able. On equal footing.
So stop accusing us of ranting "I want the bestest ship evar now!" because thats not what we do.
You have to learn to differentiate between discussions about canon related issues (like arrays for example) and actual discussions about ship stats.
Asking to completely change the "Exploration Cruiser" has no basis other than being jealous of ships that fare better in the tac heavy metagame. It does not adress the problems the game has at all. This has also nothing to do with them being afraid of ship sales - the Sovereign was top of the line for a while, it didn't kill ship sales. Whoever wants to play a Galaxy will play a Galaxy, if they don't do it and go and more importantly buy "better" ships it's their own fault and it is, btw, sending a completely skewed message. IF that would be your goal.
The T5 Retrofit is as capable and viable as every other ship as it can get with all the T5U and upgrade nosnense. The T5U brought a third tac console, you can upgrade your fleet consoles and weapons and quite comfortably ppull 12-15k dps with a phaser setup without the really expensive consoles. This is "viable". "Competetive" is a PvP term and when we go there I will never say *anythng* is okay - this game openly sabotages PvP on a basic level, so this is hopeless.
I am sorry, I didn't want to acuse anybody of anything, like I said it just starts to get on my nerves. I apologize, no hard feelings. It is still possible that we all are surprised by a completely new layout that doesn't follow the pathfinder and maybe places the Negh'Var and Explorer with a LTC Tac and LTC Sci following the D'Deridex in a completely different light. But *logically* there is no reason they would derive from the Pathfinder layout.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It gets a Tier 6 version. As far a we know this is unique to the hero ships at this point.
so let me requote your previous statement:
The Exploration cruiser/ the Galaxy is just one ship in this game which already got special treatment due to it being a hero ship.
"wich ALREADY", that mean something that have come to pass, that can NOT be t6 galaxy since we haven't got one for now as far as i known.
so please.
the galaxy retrofit never have a "special treatement" compared to other ship.
The Galaxy following the established pattern is the only logical assumption you can make. The Pathfinder set a precedent, this is how those ships will turn out.
maybe, but it is just that, an assumption, for now. the precedent have been set only in your mind, for now, no matter how logical and statistically higly probable that may be.
i will accept this theory when we see a galaxy and a defiant that follow it.
They get a hybrid, but they don't get the full specilization and stay true to their original configuration as they still fill a role in the overall setup of the game
now that is very interesting, what is that "role" that these ships fill in the overall SETUP of the game? is the game is somehow dependant of these ship with these particular layout to function properly? and if that the case, why wan't these layout be given to others ships? why?
Having this setup be the "least effective" is entirely a fault of the gamedesign and skill balance, this is the issue that needs to be adressed, not changing the layouts to something "less sucky".
so let me get this straight!
the layout of the ship is good it is the power that must be changed. ( it been what? 3 years that we heard this?)
but when cryptic give us acces to new power that can be slot with them, you want a restrict acces to them?
how is it that we can be as hypocritical as that? no seriously!
you can't change the layout, it the power that must be change, ha ok, but here! look we got new power now, can we use them?
no! hmm well ok, but just 1 or 2, at low level, please!
ha! cool, but can i still pay 3000 zen for it?
of course you do! what were you thinking, that we give it to you for free? hey it is a tier6 galaxy buddy, the ship that you were dreaming for all these years!
we are generously reduce the price for you galaxy fan from the original 12000 zen intended, consider it a favor:)
but your answer is very interesting nethertheless, so having a tier 6 galaxy would be a special treatement? somekind of a "favor" that the devs do to us?
that is the same train of thaught that float around when cryptic release a tier5 galaxy.
the galaxy wasn't good enought to pretend to tier 5, we should be happy to have one and not asking for too much you known.
while in the meantime the exelsior got his way to tier5 with a very good layout ( that was better than the assault cruiser in the firepower departement at that time) with absolutely no complex whatsoever.
so let me bring it to you straight, it is not a favor, we paid these ships, just like we paid any others ship, we are not asking for charity.
if favor there is, it is cryptic that allow them one by selling us such miserable layout and stats at that price.
but we, galaxy fan should be very cautious with what we ask it seems, as it could break the foundation of the game itself, it is a well known fact.it even mentioned in the bible.
now i really known what sisko feel when he try to break out the mental conditioning of this jemhadar.
the galaxy must not be efficient, competitive, or a real alternative, THAT IS ORDER!
it can not be otherwhise, it can NOT, it can't!
why?
that the way it have been decided,it can not be changed, you must complie, obidience bring stability!
ok! ok! ok, i get it
i get it, i am sorry angrytarg! you will have what you want
a new tier 6 galaxy that is less effective than it predecesor tier 6
let redo the same pattern that was 5 years ago, it have been proven so succesfull!
let reproduce it, everyone will be happy, the players with this fantastic ship, the devs with these fantastic threads, everyone!
then we can continue with the routine ship deliverie, i was thinking about the archer's enterprise to bring to tier 6, you known with layout similar to the eclipse.
but i don't known, really my heart is undecided between that and a tier6 stargazer with tripple specialisation acces.
my mind! i really should stop with that habit of mine to try to break trought the mental conditioning of a galaxy fan, jemhadar are a joke in comparison!
@neo1nx: I see no reason for your hostility and sarcasm. I said that it is entirely possible that they give it another layout - there is just no reason to assume that. If we hadn't got the Pathfinder already I wouldn't say that, but they basically showed us how the T6 Hero Ships look like. And so far, like it or not, all ships follow a logical pattern in their in-game setup (regardless of the skins they choose for them, mind you). It's always a shuffled around ensign and later LTC station with the older ships always being "left behind" since, well, they are older (not canonically but RL, in-game "old" as in date of implementation). That's how this game is designed and it got even worse with F2P. I see no way to change that, especially not with people immedeatly throwing their money so hard at the screen the moment new ships are released and they later complain that they can't even use these ships. What's left to say here?
T6 Intrepid/Galaxy/Defiant are a safe bet at this point as can be dedacted from certain "rumors". This is "special treatment" at this point since there is no T6 star cruiser, no T6 Excelsior, no T6 Avenger etc. - but in terms of the gamedesign the Galaxy is nothing special, it has the exact same layout than the other two ships when the game launched. Now one setup seems "worse" than the others because the game is majorly skewed. But if we had a dps increasing engineering ability suddenly the "sucky" Galaxy would be highly desireable being able to slot two of them. This is what I mean - the engineering abilities need an overhaul. That didn't happen until now, probably it will never happen, but that would be a solution to the problem. But from what we have there is absolutely no reason to assume the T6 Galaxy will be catered some custom made layout that is specifically made to shine in the current screwed up metagame.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I really do wish that they'd post a blog about this - been keeping an eye out for 'offical' news on a daily basis, and have been disappointed that the only updates have been blogs pertaining to the (painfully predictable) scenario involving Sela.
Come on Devs - we need info!
Exactly
But I think a Galaxy model overhaul is not too far off now
EDIT: The Mirror Negh'Var just sprung to my mind. Maybe, just maybe they pick that up and go for a LTC of different profession. Granted, this precedent is not as "hard" as the Pathfinder, but maybe, just maybe...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
@neo1nx: I see no reason for your hostility and sarcasm.
you may be right, but not matter how i would love to express it in a more diplomatic way, after hearing these old argument over and over since the last 5 years, it is, just like you said it, "getting on my nerve".
and when that happened i usually don't have the ability to "cheat" on the autenthicity of the response.
but it seem i am not the only one lately, just look at the exchange fire between drunk and edalgo in their last post, all this made been possible base on the rumor of a tier6 galaxy, hahaha!
star trek fan will never change:D
T6 Intrepid/Galaxy/Defiant are a safe bet at this point as can be dedacted from certain "rumors". This is "special treatment" at this point since there is no T6 star cruiser, no T6 Excelsior, no T6 Avenger etc. - but in terms of the gamedesign the Galaxy is nothing special, it has the exact same layout than the other two ships when the game launched. Now one setup seems "worse" than the others because the game is majorly skewed. But if we had a dps increasing engineering ability suddenly the "sucky" Galaxy would be highly desireable being able to slot two of them. This is what I mean - the engineering abilities need an overhaul. That didn't happen until now, probably it will never happen, but that would be a solution to the problem. But from what we have there is absolutely no reason to assume the T6 Galaxy will be catered some custom made layout that is specifically made to shine in the current screwed up metagame.
this "current screwed metagame" is been around for 5 years now, i think it safe to say that it will stay that way, especially on a F2P business model.
so yes i would love the galaxy layout to be implemented not as a 3 pack ship trinity but on his own.
this idea was bad at that time and it is still bad today, there is no need, desire or justification to reproduce it.
and that why i said that if that happened it will show that cryptic have no intention to make this ship desireable exept for the galaxy fan.
no intention to giving it a role exept the one that is to be a mirror layout equivalent of 2 others ships.
that should not be the way to build a ship in this game, and in fact it is not, it has just happened with these 3 one, no other ship have been build on suck a ridiculous marketing idea.
and we all see the result of that 5 years after.
and it not about making this ship a dreadkiller of doom, that was never the plan as far as i am concerned, but to have a balanced ship that can sport a more variety of build that make it a competitive choice.
something that would be between the eclipe and the guardian in term of efficiency with a trend in the science department
the only ship that can be push in spirit to be a dreadkiller would be the galaxy x, mind you, not the galaxy retrofit. not because i think that it is the case in cannon, but because that how cryptic implemented these ship in this game.
the things is, that this ship is so bad ( galaxy retrofit ) that any change will boost it firepower.
one daes not come without the other for this ship, like it or not.
The Galaxy's main arrays are so long bc the saucer is wider than longer. If you were to break up the Galaxy's main arrays you WOULD have a big blind spot directly in front. The longer array covers this huge area.
It's really funny how so many believe longer array theory. When I jump on TeamSpeak many of us get such a huge laugh over it.
I've gone in detail over the canon examples of how phasers work and nowhere in the tech manuals does it state that bc the arrays are linked and can transfer power does that make it more powerful. Galaxy fanboys include that all on their own.
And I'm not a Galaxy hater I just don't buy into the crappy argument that bigger or longer is always better.
With respect, I'd like to see some evidence to the contrary, using the TNGTM as source material.
Also, I'd like to refer you to VOY: "Dark Frontier", the first couple minutes of that episode shows Voyager firing beams that are not perpendicular* to the emitter surface; thus proving that phaser strips are capable of targeting anything that is within the line-of-sight of the emitter.
*"Normal" would be a better, mathematical term. The beam doesn't have to fire perpendicular to the tangent of the phaser array's curve.
Also, just because "many of your buddies on Teamspeak laugh over it", doesn't mean you're right. For example, the geocentric model was believed to be right by the mass majority of people for 1500 years. Turns out the majority was wrong. "I'm right because everyone else thinks they're right" is a logical fallacy and hardly conclusive evidence or proof.
I counter your "nope and that's wrong" argument with this:
Energy from all discharged segments passes directionally over neighboring segments due to force coupling, converging on the release point, where the beam will emerge and travel at c to the target.
Energy converges. Or, in other words, the sum of energy.
More discharged segments results in a larger sum of energy at the firing point.
Therefore, since the Galaxy has a greater number of emitters in its main array(s), it has a larger potential sum of energy.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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you may be right, but not matter how i would love to express it in a more diplomatic way, after hearing these old argument over and over since the last 5 years, it is, just like you said it, "getting on my nerve".
and when that happened i usually don't have the ability to "cheat" on the autenthicity of the response.
but it seem i am not the only one lately, just look at the exchange fire between drunk and edalgo in their last post, all this made been possible base on the rumor of a tier6 galaxy, hahaha!
star trek fan will never change:D
It's alright, I have been victim to that as well and if it was the case with you I'd like to apologize. All of this is just not worth to get pissed at somebody, it's a game about Star Trek. And after all we all just want an enjoyable game, no matter how much Cryptic screws up
this "current screwed metagame" is been around for 5 years now, i think it safe to say that it will stay that way, especially on a F2P business model.
so yes i would love the galaxy layout to be implemented not as a 3 pack ship trinity but on his own.
this idea was bad at that time and it is still bad today, there is no need, desire or justification to reproduce it.
and that why i said that if that happened it will show that cryptic have no intention to make this ship desireable exept for the galaxy fan.
no intention to giving it a role exept the one that is to be a mirror layout equivalent of 2 others ships.
that should not be the way to build a ship in this game, and in fact it is not, it has just happened with these 3 one, no other ship have been build on suck a ridiculous marketing idea.
and we all see the result of that 5 years after.
and it not about making this ship a dreadkiller of doom, that was never the plan as far as i am concerned, but to have a balanced ship that can sport a more variety of build that make it a competitive choice.
something that would be between the eclipe and the guardian in term of efficiency with a trend in the science department
the only ship that can be push in spirit to be a dreadkiller would be the galaxy x, mind you, not the galaxy retrofit. not because i think that it is the case in cannon, but because that how cryptic implemented these ship in this game.
the things is, that this ship is so bad ( galaxy retrofit ) that any change will boost it firepower.
one daes not come without the other for this ship, like it or not.
Well, the ship layout is around since launch as well - I think there are no chances that either of them really changes anymore And I absolutely understand what and why you like this change, don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that the chances are slim since up to this point you can reason exactly why *most* of the ships have the layouts they have in regards to the game (not canon). Every ship follows some logic and since this logic is somewhat robust there is no problem to see with the ships itself. So, in my opinion, the only thing that has a remote chance of being fixed is the abilities itself since engineering features a lot of "dead" abilities and Cryptic needs to adress that.
But I was thinking, mentioned it earlier: IF (big if) Cryptic decides to model the Negh'Var that we now know will soon be ready after the mirror version or maybe even after the D'd, featuring another LTC maybe (big maybe) the Galaxy gets a similiar treatment, trying to bring the ships in line with the changed D'd. Maybe. But the PAthfinder still is the most "logic" layout.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
...
But I was thinking, mentioned it earlier: IF (big if) Cryptic decides to model the Negh'Var that we now know will soon be ready after the mirror version or maybe even after the D'd, featuring another LTC maybe (big maybe) the Galaxy gets a similiar treatment, trying to bring the ships in line with the changed D'd. Maybe. But the PAthfinder still is the most "logic" layout.
Actually i where happy with this treatment already, if they'd give her the option choose between intel and command.
I know command would be obvious, but in TNG we saw more than once that the big -D send ppl on intel misisons and the ship itself was most of the time alone on it's missions without any other ships to "command", so i'd say a intel Setup would make some sense.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I think they need to dump the 'specialized ship' thing - and just make 'Hybrid seating'. The system is already in place - you can't have a boff with active intel and command powers at the same time.
You want a command boff? You have your hybrid seat. You want your intel boff? Hybrid seat. Want a pilot? Hybrid seat. But you can't mix and match secondary specs.
I think they need to dump the 'specialized ship' thing - and just make 'Hybrid seating'. The system is already in place - you can't have a boff with active intel and command powers at the same time.
You want a command boff? You have your hybrid seat. You want your intel boff? Hybrid seat. Want a pilot? Hybrid seat. But you can't mix and match secondary specs.
I thought exactly this a bit earlier today. It really doesn't make sense to have specialization be bound to a "station" - there's a little bit (not really) logic for the primary profession being "limited" like that. Especially since you can specialize every boff now.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
With respect, I'd like to see some evidence to the contrary, using the TNGTM as source material.
Also, I'd like to refer you to VOY: "Dark Frontier", the first couple minutes of that episode shows Voyager firing beams that are not perpendicular* to the emitter surface; thus proving that phaser strips are capable of targeting anything that is within the line-of-sight of the emitter.
*"Normal" would be a better, mathematical term. The beam doesn't have to fire perpendicular to the tangent of the phaser array's curve.
Also, just because "many of your buddies on Teamspeak laugh over it", doesn't mean you're right. For example, the geocentric model was believed to be right by the mass majority of people for 1500 years. Turns out the majority was wrong. "I'm right because everyone else thinks they're right" is a logical fallacy and hardly conclusive evidence or proof.
I counter your "nope and that's wrong" argument with this:
Energy converges. Or, in other words, the sum of energy.
More discharged segments results in a larger sum of energy at the firing point.
Therefore, since the Galaxy has a greater number of emitters in its main array(s), it has a larger potential sum of energy.
good luck getting him to accept the facts, i haven't been able too.
that picture of voyager firing was probably the hardest it ever hit anything with phsers in that series. especially long moving glow effects on both arrays, hitting that borg ship at nearly the same time. it shows that splitting the arrays aren't necessarily that much of a down grade when it can do that.
they went out of its way to fire those long arrays too, not the smaller aft arrays. as if those longer ones, that just barely had line of sight with something dead aft of the ship, are more powerful
that negvar looks nice, but i also have to face palm a bit. those long spindly cannons on the wings and nose, and those fins on the chin are features of the all good things version that didn't have those underslung cannons, that may or may not actually be torp launchers. the DS9 negvar had stubby nose and wing cannons, and no fins. what cryptic came up with looks like its trying to be both.
they also flattened the wings, they used to curve down a bit in game. this certainly makes a touched up galaxy model all but a forgone conclusion, which is great. really glad the negvar got some work too.
unbelievable. i try to actually log in to get a look at it, and there's BS with the log in server. and as soon as thats fixed, they take down tribble.
And what if this "explorer" was in fact... a tier6 odyssey?
Can't be, at least im 99% sure. Reason being (well the ones I can tell you) that the Odyssey has been described as a star cruiser on its original release and 3 other terms depending on which C-Store version we are talking about.
And even so, there would be zero sense in a single tier 6 Odyssey. You would have to make another 3 pack. This is a single ship coming up.
And finally, the Klingons supposedly get a new Negh'Var. What is the Negh'vars 'counterpart of in this game? The Galaxy.
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turns out, the bare bones of how phasers work, and why some ships might 'arbitrarily' have split up arrays, are 2 different subjects. one is layed out plain, and the other can only be subject to theory.
less then 0 substance from you as usual, only attempted gotchas.
But we know she fires 10 at a time. We also know that unless at warp all Photon Torpedoes are sublight. But yes, it is a magnetic accelerator launcher.
Well torpedoes are self propelled in the end so the launcher pretty much just has to get out and it can go under its own power.
I think the Sovereign has superior torpedo output compared to the Galaxy, but the Akira is over both of them. A dedicated torpedo boat and light carrier.
I kinda wish they would put the Defiant Pathfinder edition of the Nova, with the torpedo bank where the Secondary Deflector ended up.
Actually I think it happened once or twice where it ran the length a couple of times. It would be an overcharged shot.
The Rapid Nadion effect is responsible for the generation of the beam, but a phaser isn't actually a nadion beam, if a phaser beam dissipated so quickly it wouldn't be a usable weapon.
The bottom of the Sovereigns saucer has a row of forward facing lights, that are actually a secondary deflector. (confirmed on the MSD if you don't believe me)
It's possible that having phasers and this deflector in line could be detrimental to one or the other and so the array was broken up to allow for this.
Correct. The Ambassador doesn't factor in as it precedes.
BoBW? were the ship shot nothing but full array discharges pretty much each time, at an impressive rate of fire?
Darmok, with simply the most obvious fx error in the franchise?
All Good Things? were the only phaser fired was the lance that is an entirely different weapon from an array?
The Nth degree, right after some typical unintelligible techno babel gibberish, this time about phasers, Barkley hit 10 buttons and made the shields 300% stronger. what ever happened to that? that would have put federation shield tech a century beyond anyone else. not to mention the tech behind the rift Barkley created that moved the ship 30k lightyears in a mater of seconds. they never mentioned that tech being removed from any record. it was a good episode, but silly, full of quantum leaps and bable that never poped up again.
warp power is plasma, everything runs on it, all reactors on the ships produce it, diverting warp power to something is as dramatic as pluging something into an outlet.
i didn't make up length=power, length=more emitters, emitters that are described as self contained phaser banks with their own capacitors, own prefire chamber, own ability to fire independent of the whole rest of the array. but they can combine all or some of their power into a single shot. the visual effects in the show and details in the manual fit together perfectly, the more emitters available to lend their power to a shot, the more powerful a shot can be.
When I started playing this game I wanted to fly the Enterprise D or E, and if I had known that neither was that great at the time (this was before the Regent and the Fleet System) with the game being in full 'Escorts Online' mode I probably wouldn't have stuck around. Only the Enterpise F freebie kept me around with it's Lt. Comm Uni giving much needed damage with a Tac slotted. The E is a lot better now with the Regent and FACR being able to pull their weight in damage output, but the D is stuck in a role that has little place in the game currently and the new queues don't look to be changing that.
As far as what Cryptic has done in the past, the T6 lineup has more exceptions of the 'rules' each time they release a new set. First it was Intel with only full 'Intel' ships having a Commander and Lt. Hybrids, with non-Intel ships being limited to Lt. max, with all Hybrids being fixed classic 'Professions'. Then the Shesar comes out, Lt. Comm Intel. Then Command ships, entirely new Hybrid set with no Intel on them. JHSS comes out, Both Intel and Command, and one is Universal Profession. Both Command and Intel have special integrated functions (Inspiration and Gather Intel, respectively) that made some sense that not every ship would have or be easily refit-able to (Stealth functions of Intel, whatever extra Comms and sensors needed for 'Inspiration'). There's been no announcement of any new integrated functions for Pilot, so maybe the guidelines for for new ships for what can have Commander rank abilties is more flexible. Every ship has a Pilot of some sort, maybe the extra Pilot abilitiy thrusters, emitters, or whatever are easily fit-able on a ship undergoing retrofitting in drydock, but not deployable to ships out in the field.
The Eclipse BOff layout modified for Pilot instead of Intel would be a solid, but not OP, option. If you wanted to take the BOff build off an existing Galaxy it would fit just fine, just need to pick a new Tactical ability. Fairly sizable jump in Tactical Profession abilities with one higher rank ability and the option of an Ensign ability. Still a bit light in that in that department, though, which is where the Engineering/Pilot Commander would fit in, with Attack Pattern Lambda and Reroute Weapon Reserves making it a solid contender. Unless APL and RWR are insanely OP in practice, and with either a 3 Tac or 2 Tac console layout, this will still not hold a candle to a Scimitar in damage output, so not OP giving plenty of room to sell other ships based mostly on stats, but still solid enough that a player wouldn't be disappointed in it either.
This pretty much. So many of my pals i started the game with left because their favorite ship was left in a rot.
I also agree that we should just retool the eclipses boff layout for pilot or command.
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The galaxy was left in a rot the moment the game made tactical team mandatory.
The moment when the Excelsior came in and overshadowed it AND and sovereign in one fell swoop.
The Ambassador nailed that coffin shut.
Oh not to mention the horrible model that was there for an unbearable amount of time (that alone has ended several starfleet careers).
With both the excelsior and the Regent, the Ambassador and all the lockbox ships cryptic have already demonstrated that their stated ethos on ship statting is complete and utter arbitrary BS. The reason they take one dump after another on the iconic ships is that they know that having these ships being good means that their other sales will evaporate into happy thoughts and jack shiite in a box.
Now, asking for a new galaxy to be set up like a command cruiser or taking up the eclipse seating and switching it up or mirroring the ambassador in terms of seatings is neither asking for a pwnmobile nor is it asking for a detour from ship ctryptics statting ethos, since they have none.
No reasonable person here has asked for the best, we ask for competent. Able. On equal footing.
So stop accusing us of ranting "I want the bestest ship evar now!" because thats not what we do.
You have to learn to differentiate between discussions about canon related issues (like arrays for example) and actual discussions about ship stats.
I will agree that the teams are unbalanced and should get a workover, especially to make lvl II and III teams a real option. But mandatory? I haven't slotted TT on my Galaxy for years and I never needed it (thanks to the TSS transporter doff, that is true). So I cannot, personally, see that TT is "mandatory".
I exlained why that is a few posts ago. Both the Galaxy and the Sovereign are launch ships - the Galaxy wasn't even T5, the Retrofit came a bit later. Those ships operate in the trinity model the game once had. All cruisers, all science ships and all escorts were the same back then, only shuffling around a ensign station. When they reached the limits of what you can do they introduced ships with secondary skills - a LTC of different "profession".
When they did that, the Galaxy already had a retrofit, the ship existed - so changing it wasn't an option. So they choose the Excelsior retrofit, that didn't exist yet to fill the tac cruiser role - be glad they chose a canon ship at all. The Ambassador takign the sci LTC came much, much later but it's position is entirely logical in Cryptic's ship design ethos. All those ships shuffle around some stuff and the Intrepid/Galaxy/Defiant form the edges of the triangle. Now, having canonically older ships fill positions that suggest they have more firepower or more science potential as the Galaxy doesn't make logical sense, I never will fight anyone on that. But really their hands were tied to change the Galaxy since it already existed and it's layout was and is - in theory - completely viable.
The problem is not the layout but the skills itself. Cryptic has to openly adress the issue that of the high end engineering skills, which the Galaxy happens to have two off, none are actually desireable and Aceton Beam and Boarding Party do not even work in the current game due to subsystem immunity and health/damage buff of NPCs. That is pressing issue, but just closing one's eyes and demand "just put tac there" doesn't solve the issue.
I separate this from canon discussions - in terms of gameplay there is nothing wrong with the Galaxy in theory. In practice the gameplay/metagame is "sick" and that needs treatment.
No argument at this point, I completely agree
The ship statting does actually follow a pattern, as I said before. Launch ships: different ensign. Retrofits different LTCs. Flag ships uni LTC as "Jack of all trades". Later they shoved some retrofits to the fleet store adding universal low stations (Cheyenne etc.). The Regent came afterwards when it was obvious that T5 ships hit a wall and they were flat out going for power creep with every new ship being better and lockbox ships usually operating outside of all rules and being the best available. This is F2P. This is what the players wanted, to this day "screaming" at people criticizing this business model. It is bonkers, but it's never going to change now.
Asking to completely change the "Exploration Cruiser" has no basis other than being jealous of ships that fare better in the tac heavy metagame. It does not adress the problems the game has at all. This has also nothing to do with them being afraid of ship sales - the Sovereign was top of the line for a while, it didn't kill ship sales. Whoever wants to play a Galaxy will play a Galaxy, if they don't do it and go and more importantly buy "better" ships it's their own fault and it is, btw, sending a completely skewed message. IF that would be your goal.
The T5 Retrofit is as capable and viable as every other ship as it can get with all the T5U and upgrade nosnense. The T5U brought a third tac console, you can upgrade your fleet consoles and weapons and quite comfortably ppull 12-15k dps with a phaser setup without the really expensive consoles. This is "viable". "Competetive" is a PvP term and when we go there I will never say *anythng* is okay - this game openly sabotages PvP on a basic level, so this is hopeless.
I am sorry, I didn't want to acuse anybody of anything, like I said it just starts to get on my nerves. I apologize, no hard feelings. It is still possible that we all are surprised by a completely new layout that doesn't follow the pathfinder and maybe places the Negh'Var and Explorer with a LTC Tac and LTC Sci following the D'Deridex in a completely different light. But *logically* there is no reason they would derive from the Pathfinder layout.
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so let me requote your previous statement:
"wich ALREADY", that mean something that have come to pass, that can NOT be t6 galaxy since we haven't got one for now as far as i known.
so please.
the galaxy retrofit never have a "special treatement" compared to other ship.
maybe, but it is just that, an assumption, for now. the precedent have been set only in your mind, for now, no matter how logical and statistically higly probable that may be.
i will accept this theory when we see a galaxy and a defiant that follow it.
now that is very interesting, what is that "role" that these ships fill in the overall SETUP of the game? is the game is somehow dependant of these ship with these particular layout to function properly? and if that the case, why wan't these layout be given to others ships? why?
so let me get this straight!
the layout of the ship is good it is the power that must be changed. ( it been what? 3 years that we heard this?)
but when cryptic give us acces to new power that can be slot with them, you want a restrict acces to them?
how is it that we can be as hypocritical as that? no seriously!
you can't change the layout, it the power that must be change, ha ok, but here! look we got new power now, can we use them?
no! hmm well ok, but just 1 or 2, at low level, please!
ha! cool, but can i still pay 3000 zen for it?
of course you do! what were you thinking, that we give it to you for free? hey it is a tier6 galaxy buddy, the ship that you were dreaming for all these years!
we are generously reduce the price for you galaxy fan from the original 12000 zen intended, consider it a favor:)
but your answer is very interesting nethertheless, so having a tier 6 galaxy would be a special treatement? somekind of a "favor" that the devs do to us?
that is the same train of thaught that float around when cryptic release a tier5 galaxy.
the galaxy wasn't good enought to pretend to tier 5, we should be happy to have one and not asking for too much you known.
while in the meantime the exelsior got his way to tier5 with a very good layout ( that was better than the assault cruiser in the firepower departement at that time) with absolutely no complex whatsoever.
so let me bring it to you straight, it is not a favor, we paid these ships, just like we paid any others ship, we are not asking for charity.
if favor there is, it is cryptic that allow them one by selling us such miserable layout and stats at that price.
but we, galaxy fan should be very cautious with what we ask it seems, as it could break the foundation of the game itself, it is a well known fact.it even mentioned in the bible.
now i really known what sisko feel when he try to break out the mental conditioning of this jemhadar.
the galaxy must not be efficient, competitive, or a real alternative, THAT IS ORDER!
it can not be otherwhise, it can NOT, it can't!
why?
that the way it have been decided,it can not be changed, you must complie, obidience bring stability!
ok! ok! ok, i get it
i get it, i am sorry angrytarg! you will have what you want
a new tier 6 galaxy that is less effective than it predecesor tier 6
let redo the same pattern that was 5 years ago, it have been proven so succesfull!
let reproduce it, everyone will be happy, the players with this fantastic ship, the devs with these fantastic threads, everyone!
then we can continue with the routine ship deliverie, i was thinking about the archer's enterprise to bring to tier 6, you known with layout similar to the eclipse.
but i don't known, really my heart is undecided between that and a tier6 stargazer with tripple specialisation acces.
my mind! i really should stop with that habit of mine to try to break trought the mental conditioning of a galaxy fan, jemhadar are a joke in comparison!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
T6 Intrepid/Galaxy/Defiant are a safe bet at this point as can be dedacted from certain "rumors". This is "special treatment" at this point since there is no T6 star cruiser, no T6 Excelsior, no T6 Avenger etc. - but in terms of the gamedesign the Galaxy is nothing special, it has the exact same layout than the other two ships when the game launched. Now one setup seems "worse" than the others because the game is majorly skewed. But if we had a dps increasing engineering ability suddenly the "sucky" Galaxy would be highly desireable being able to slot two of them. This is what I mean - the engineering abilities need an overhaul. That didn't happen until now, probably it will never happen, but that would be a solution to the problem. But from what we have there is absolutely no reason to assume the T6 Galaxy will be catered some custom made layout that is specifically made to shine in the current screwed up metagame.
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I know, I know, I'm getting all excited again. I can't help it dammit!
Edit: Pic link.
Mine Trap Supporter
I think I just peed a little
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Exactly
But I think a Galaxy model overhaul is not too far off now
EDIT: The Mirror Negh'Var just sprung to my mind. Maybe, just maybe they pick that up and go for a LTC of different profession. Granted, this precedent is not as "hard" as the Pathfinder, but maybe, just maybe...
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http://i.imgur.com/Gu4h4nt.jpg
Mine Trap Supporter
Maybe the Galaxy could get the missing variant too, the USS Venture style warp nacelles
"Let them eat static!"
:P
Mine Trap Supporter
Odyssey wartime nacelles, though, I can support.
Colonel O'Neill would be in love.
Now I'm more impatient to see the Galaxy then ever...
you may be right, but not matter how i would love to express it in a more diplomatic way, after hearing these old argument over and over since the last 5 years, it is, just like you said it, "getting on my nerve".
and when that happened i usually don't have the ability to "cheat" on the autenthicity of the response.
but it seem i am not the only one lately, just look at the exchange fire between drunk and edalgo in their last post, all this made been possible base on the rumor of a tier6 galaxy, hahaha!
star trek fan will never change:D
this "current screwed metagame" is been around for 5 years now, i think it safe to say that it will stay that way, especially on a F2P business model.
so yes i would love the galaxy layout to be implemented not as a 3 pack ship trinity but on his own.
this idea was bad at that time and it is still bad today, there is no need, desire or justification to reproduce it.
and that why i said that if that happened it will show that cryptic have no intention to make this ship desireable exept for the galaxy fan.
no intention to giving it a role exept the one that is to be a mirror layout equivalent of 2 others ships.
that should not be the way to build a ship in this game, and in fact it is not, it has just happened with these 3 one, no other ship have been build on suck a ridiculous marketing idea.
and we all see the result of that 5 years after.
and it not about making this ship a dreadkiller of doom, that was never the plan as far as i am concerned, but to have a balanced ship that can sport a more variety of build that make it a competitive choice.
something that would be between the eclipe and the guardian in term of efficiency with a trend in the science department
the only ship that can be push in spirit to be a dreadkiller would be the galaxy x, mind you, not the galaxy retrofit. not because i think that it is the case in cannon, but because that how cryptic implemented these ship in this game.
the things is, that this ship is so bad ( galaxy retrofit ) that any change will boost it firepower.
one daes not come without the other for this ship, like it or not.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
With respect, I'd like to see some evidence to the contrary, using the TNGTM as source material.
Also, I'd like to refer you to VOY: "Dark Frontier", the first couple minutes of that episode shows Voyager firing beams that are not perpendicular* to the emitter surface; thus proving that phaser strips are capable of targeting anything that is within the line-of-sight of the emitter.
*"Normal" would be a better, mathematical term. The beam doesn't have to fire perpendicular to the tangent of the phaser array's curve.
Also, just because "many of your buddies on Teamspeak laugh over it", doesn't mean you're right. For example, the geocentric model was believed to be right by the mass majority of people for 1500 years. Turns out the majority was wrong. "I'm right because everyone else thinks they're right" is a logical fallacy and hardly conclusive evidence or proof.
I counter your "nope and that's wrong" argument with this: Energy converges. Or, in other words, the sum of energy.
More discharged segments results in a larger sum of energy at the firing point.
Therefore, since the Galaxy has a greater number of emitters in its main array(s), it has a larger potential sum of energy.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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It's alright, I have been victim to that as well and if it was the case with you I'd like to apologize. All of this is just not worth to get pissed at somebody, it's a game about Star Trek. And after all we all just want an enjoyable game, no matter how much Cryptic screws up
Well, the ship layout is around since launch as well - I think there are no chances that either of them really changes anymore
But I was thinking, mentioned it earlier: IF (big if) Cryptic decides to model the Negh'Var that we now know will soon be ready after the mirror version or maybe even after the D'd, featuring another LTC maybe (big maybe) the Galaxy gets a similiar treatment, trying to bring the ships in line with the changed D'd. Maybe. But the PAthfinder still is the most "logic" layout.
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I know command would be obvious, but in TNG we saw more than once that the big -D send ppl on intel misisons and the ship itself was most of the time alone on it's missions without any other ships to "command", so i'd say a intel Setup would make some sense.
You want a command boff? You have your hybrid seat. You want your intel boff? Hybrid seat. Want a pilot? Hybrid seat. But you can't mix and match secondary specs.
I thought exactly this a bit earlier today. It really doesn't make sense to have specialization be bound to a "station" - there's a little bit (not really) logic for the primary profession being "limited" like that. Especially since you can specialize every boff now.
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good luck getting him to accept the facts, i haven't been able too.
that picture of voyager firing was probably the hardest it ever hit anything with phsers in that series. especially long moving glow effects on both arrays, hitting that borg ship at nearly the same time. it shows that splitting the arrays aren't necessarily that much of a down grade when it can do that.
they went out of its way to fire those long arrays too, not the smaller aft arrays. as if those longer ones, that just barely had line of sight with something dead aft of the ship, are more powerful
that negvar looks nice, but i also have to face palm a bit. those long spindly cannons on the wings and nose, and those fins on the chin are features of the all good things version that didn't have those underslung cannons, that may or may not actually be torp launchers. the DS9 negvar had stubby nose and wing cannons, and no fins. what cryptic came up with looks like its trying to be both.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/9/90/Negh%27Var_studiomodel_in_original_appearance.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100211152335&path-prefix=en
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/1/1c/Negh%27Var_studiomodel.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091206012206&path-prefix=en
they also flattened the wings, they used to curve down a bit in game. this certainly makes a touched up galaxy model all but a forgone conclusion, which is great. really glad the negvar got some work too.
unbelievable. i try to actually log in to get a look at it, and there's BS with the log in server. and as soon as thats fixed, they take down tribble.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Can't be, at least im 99% sure. Reason being (well the ones I can tell you) that the Odyssey has been described as a star cruiser on its original release and 3 other terms depending on which C-Store version we are talking about.
And even so, there would be zero sense in a single tier 6 Odyssey. You would have to make another 3 pack. This is a single ship coming up.
And finally, the Klingons supposedly get a new Negh'Var. What is the Negh'vars 'counterpart of in this game? The Galaxy.
"Let them eat static!"