Really they just need to make all officer slots on all ships universal and just restrict you to a maximum number of powers or officers in a career field.
Either a global restriction of no more than 8 powers in a field or no more than 2 officer of a field.
Or they can restrict it by ship giving each one a maximum number specific to their intended role.
Ima post this as it's own topic and see how much hate I get.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Wouldn't that idea completely kill their ship sales? The whole game is build around selling ships, be it via lockbox or the store, everything else is just a stage, basically. By building your dream ship why would you buy another one? People that buy ships for their visuals are the minority, most players buy them because of their stats and couldn't care less what they looked like.
If you want the newer ships with the best loadouts you still gotta purchase them. Add to that if you decide or just don't like the design that comes with the bridge officer seating or the console slotting then they will actually be paying more to make a ship with the newest seating (intel and command) or console slotting making them not only get cash for their newer ships but cash to take the best part of that newer ship and stick it on a ship they like.
Most don't care about looks as much as just having the newer ship or the ship with their perceived best loadout. This would mainly be for those that do care for looks but theres a good chance that given the option ppl would pay to not only have the newest toys but have the look they like best. Adds money if anything to ship sales.
for the most part, if you go agianst pre teamed players. i don't think its really the competitiveness that drives most to pvp, or insert here any other preconceived notion those that don't like it but have never tried it, use. those that are overly competitive tend to be the egomaniacs, but thats not limited to any 1 type of play. its just that a pvp battle actually places value on just about everything there is in game, tactically, you never feel like something has no value, or more value then anything else really. if you're just a pve'er, im sure you wouldn't understand why more then half of the things in game even exist. and that is just proof that this IS a pvp based game, and continues to be with every new release, like this anniversary ship that would make a great pvp healer but be pointless in the DPS game.
I am loathe to say it's a PvP based game. From my perspective it's a story based game.
when its about more then DPS, layers of complexity get piled on, and the game engine is operating at its limit with every factor in play. playing that when there's nothing left on the table just makes it more fun on principle, makes it feel 3 dimensional. not to mention there is another mind working against you, not a predictable npc that will do the same thing all million times you have fought it.
That is a matter of perspective. There is a whole generation of gamers who were raised on learning and defeating the predictable patterns of the opponent. On the other hand that's precisely what difficulty levels are for.
so many skills in the game are powerful against single targets, and in pve you fight hoards of enemies, single target or any control or debuff wont do the job even close to as fast as CSV or FAW would. in pvp, at most you are against 5 others, and focus tends to be on 1 at a time, suddenly every skill makes sense. and time isn't a variable like it is in pve, npcs have an expiration date, its just DPS+time. you can shoot a player ship all day and never come close to killing them, whats funny is that big fat bloated pve style DPS over time turns out to be the least effective way to get a kill in pvp. heal per second, thanks to modern resistance levels, outstripped best possible DPS in game 3 to 1 at least. and this isn't at all thanks to hitpoints, iis ability cycling, something npcs do none of. if you want to kill a player, you mess with his ability to use station powers, you spike him so he only has his hitpoints to rely on, hit him before he can counter your DPS with an even stronger HOT. pve will never be good or fulfilling because npc potential hitpoints are only just hitpoints, they make no attempt to prolong their life, and instead of having 12 or so abilities, might have 2 they can use with 5 times worse up time as you
Right right.
the only way to make something other then DPS mater, is to fundamentally change NPCs so they are much more like player ships. i wouldn't even call the NPCs in game currently placeholder tier.
1 npcs need to use skills, and have intelligent and useful sets of skill, including heals. the use of these skills could be determined by super simple if/then statements, like intro to programing level stuff.
2 npcs should have more weapons, intelligent subsystem power levels, and almost no reliance on global hp and damage multipliers
3 this isn't a fantasy MMO, enemy frigates are not the same thing as some critter in a jungle outside of town, they are huge starships, fully crewed. you should not at the end of a mission, have destroyed 10+ ships, and gone into a fight 4 to 1 and come out of it easily the victor. this will make those single target skills more useful, when there are less npcs at once.
On points 1 and 2 have you played the Kobali battlezone? I gotta commend Cryptic because those Vaadwaur actually fight. If they could make enemy NPC ships fight like that it would be much more engaging.
On point 3 that's one thing that pisses me off greatly. The NPC HP Sponge. There is no reason why enemies need 600k HP in comparison to our ships, when in many cases, like Tholian ships, they're the same ships that we fly with a sixth of the HP. Clearly the enemies should be using the abilities we use somewhat intelligently. I understand from a simple gameplay perspective. There's the real chance that for players who haven't learned anything beyond what they need to get through the story missions, that they would never be able to beat such an opponent.
And the numbers you face, that's definitely true. Whether it was a factor of limitations of the budget or not, it was rare outside of full scale war to see more than three enemy ships together against our single hero ship. Fewer tougher enemies would make far more sense.
the result will be a game were everything is important, there's no rewarding or perpetuation of failure (builds), a sci ships that can strip and debuff could potential kill something faster then a max deeps ship could, and everything cryptic could sell would be more desirable.
In that scenario, what would escorts whose bread and butter is DPS be left with then? We shouldn't obsolete them while bringing relevance to everything else.
only way that could fail, is if that 90% of the player base that cant use their ship to 10% of its potential, and doesn't care, and is a super causal cancer to gaming itself would find itself unable to kill a single npc, because the time+dps equation wouldn't work anymore. so ya, no chance of this game ever being good with this player base. no chance of pvp ever being remotely approachable again thanks to post DR epic pay/grind walls, so no chance really i will bother being a regular player again. the new story missions are sort of amusing though, i logged in once since the anniversary to play through that, once.
The question is would the change bring in new players as others leave?
I agree the Odyssey (Galaxy Class) was very comparable to the Enterprise. It was crazy that the Ody was basically helpless after three bolts to her port nacelle. I thought it was stupid that the runabouts were able to take hits without it going through the shield. If the DS9 crew knew how to defend against the weapons, wouldn't they share that in the mission brief. During the battle, Dax did say to the Ody to modulate the shields, but it didn't work. Somehow the runabouts took hits with no trouble. Stupid! Ultimately, I think this was poor writing just like ST:Generations...maybe it was the same stupid writer. A Galaxy class would have held up better.
She wasn't helpless actually, she stayed in the fight the entire time. The nacelle damage knocked out her warp drive. If that hadn't happened they would've warped out and escaped at the end. It was only at the end that they knocked out the main phaser arrays.
And your memory is betraying you.
Actually the Jem'Hadar didn't focus on the Runabouts. The Runabouts were flanking them for a good portion of the battle. When they actually did fire on a Runabout, they knocked out the Mekong's weapons array and sensors in one volley. Immediately after that the Rio Grande with Sisko and O'Brien showed up, and they all tried to withdraw from the battle. That's when the kamikaze happened.
That battle also showed a mild irony. Captain Keogh ordered shield power diverted to weapons, since the Jem'Hadar could shoot through the shields anway. But if the shields were up, then Jem'Hadar ship wouldn't have been able to ram them in the end.
As for the big E-D's fall, it's interesting. Remember Cause and Effect? When the Enterprise and Brattain collided they knicked the nacelle, very similar to the damage the Bird of Prey managed to do to the nacelles. In both instances, it caused catastrophic damage to the engines that resulted in a warp core breach. In Cause and Effect, they started leaking drive plasma, in Generations it was a Coolant leak. In both situations it was failure that disabled both a core shutdown and core ejection, and preceded containment failure. But it's consistent.
I'm thinking maybe a design flaw that was corrected by the time of the Dominion war.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
the revised TNG tech manual that came out for generations actually mentions that design flaw. i forget the exact wording but to correct it the proper procedure instead of warp core ejection only is to eject the nacelles first.
In that scenario, what would escorts whose bread and butter is DPS be left with then? We shouldn't obsolete them while bringing relevance to everything else.
vape for one thing. also escorts=/=DPS too. their damage dealing is always in peeks and valleys, only beam boats really have anything you can call consistent DPS over time. there is soooooooooooo much more to tactical ship combat then targeting a ship and activating FAW, wait, you don't even have to target them:rolleyes:
say the npc has TT or RSP and some heals, and will use it if a shield facing gets down to 20% or so, well dare them to, fake them out, get them to trigger it without blowing your big buffs, and then waste them with some sort of combo of CRF/BO/THY. its harder to ruse experienced players, but npcs would surly fall for it reliably. their raw hitpoints would be lower, hitpoints are effectively just spike soak. their full potential hitpoints, made mostly up of counters and heals like player ships, if they are cooling down you exploit that and can take them outdurring that defensive gap. if you got a good enough front loaded vap build, that your confident outstrips their spike soak, you can even skip the fake out.
a little tactics and patience can get your target dead a lot faster then constant DPS that will be countered with constant HPS. until hopefully, you eventually out pace it, but in the end you might deal a million damage to a target with 50k hitpoints. right now, thats all you can do though, because they JUST have hitpoints, all you want is DPS that can burn up hitpoints the fastest, tactics would just slow you down. its revolting, i don't know how anyone can enjoy this god awful placeholder tier npc pve, especially "elite", what a joke.
the revised TNG tech manual that came out for generations actually mentions that design flaw. i forget the exact wording but to correct it the proper procedure instead of warp core ejection only is to eject the nacelles first.
damage to a nacelle causing a core breach would be like popping a tire causing you to throw a rod, the core is just a plasma production facility, its got nothing to do with the warp field. and as far as feedback is concerned, triple redundancy for everything is hard cannon, there would be 3 different types of independent circuit breaker systems in place.
vape for one thing. also escorts=/=DPS too. their damage dealing is always in peeks and valleys, only beam boats really have anything you can call consistent DPS over time. there is soooooooooooo much more to tactical ship combat then targeting a ship and activating FAW, wait, you don't even have to target them:rolleyes:
say the npc has TT or RSP and some heals, and will use it if a shield facing gets down to 20% or so, well dare them to, fake them out, get them to trigger it without blowing your big buffs, and then waste them with some sort of combo of CRF/BO/THY. its harder to ruse experienced players, but npcs would surly fall for it reliably. their raw hitpoints would be lower, hitpoints are effectively just spike soak. their full potential hitpoints, made mostly up of counters and heals like player ships, if they are cooling down you exploit that and can take them outdurring that defensive gap. if you got a good enough front loaded vap build, that your confident outstrips their spike soak, you can even skip the fake out.
a little tactics and patience can get your target dead a lot faster then constant DPS that will be countered with constant HPS. until hopefully, you eventually out pace it, but in the end you might deal a million damage to a target with 50k hitpoints. right now, thats all you can do though, because they JUST have hitpoints, all you want is DPS that can burn up hitpoints the fastest, tactics would just slow you down. its revolting, i don't know how anyone can enjoy this god awful placeholder tier npc pve, especially "elite", what a joke.
I dig what you're saying.
On a similar note that also relates to ground combat and enemies, have you ever played Final Fantasy XII?
It was real time combat, but my favorite part was the team mechanic. Gambits. I've always wanted that in this game. Gambits were a long list of simple commands that you could prioritize. If this happens then do this, if that happens then do that, this has priority over that. So for example, 1st Gambit (prime directive:P), if an enemy is below 15% health focus fire on that enemy, 2nd Gambit-if any team member goes down revive him, 3rd gambit (engineer) At red alert activate shield generator, 4th gambit on any Captain level enemy use weapons malfunction etc.
As long as the higher priority gambits are fulfilled the enemy isn't below 15% health, and no team member is down, and the shield generator is activated or on cooldown, he will use weapons malfunction on a Captain enemy. If none are present he shoots normally.
Such a thing would work great for NPCs both on ground and space, as long as the list of gambits was long enough they would respond appropriately and in a timely manner.
damage to a nacelle causing a core breach would be like popping a tire causing you to throw a rod, the core is just a plasma production facility, its got nothing to do with the warp field. and as far as feedback is concerned, triple redundancy for everything is hard cannon, there would be 3 different types of independent circuit breaker systems in place.
There's a massive difference there. A tire is self contained air bubble that transfers the motive force of the engine to the road.
The Warp Core is directly connected to the Warp Nacelles via the Power Transfer Conduits. And all of it is linked in a single system via the magnetic containment field and plasma. So let's say you introduce a power surge to the magnetic field in one part of the system, if there's a design flaw that doesn't account for that, then any strong shock like that could travel back through the system and cause, in the case of the Enterprise, a catastrophic failure.
The equivalent in a car would be an electric car, where the tires are metal, the car is somehow energized by something it rolls over, and the Faraday cage fails and the engine dies.
But going strictly off of Generations, there was a failure FIRST in the warp coolant system. They suffered a coolant leak that meant that the warp core, which considering it was red alert should have been pumping at maximum, was now overheating. Which is probably why they were able to escape as opposed to Cause and Effect where the magnetic containment field was compromised, warp plasma got loose, the nacelle exploded, and probably sent a shock through the whole system that disrupted all magnetic containment.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
There's a massive difference there. A tire is self contained air bubble that transfers the motive force of the engine to the road.
The Warp Core is directly connected to the Warp Nacelles via the Power Transfer Conduits. And all of it is linked in a single system via the magnetic containment field and plasma. So let's say you introduce a power surge to the magnetic field in one part of the system, if there's a design flaw that doesn't account for that, then any strong shock like that could travel back through the system and cause, in the case of the Enterprise, a catastrophic failure.
The equivalent in a car would be an electric car, where the tires are metal, the car is somehow energized by something it rolls over, and the Faraday cage fails and the engine dies.
But going strictly off of Generations, there was a failure FIRST in the warp coolant system. They suffered a coolant leak that meant that the warp core, which considering it was red alert should have been pumping at maximum, was now overheating. Which is probably why they were able to escape as opposed to Cause and Effect where the magnetic containment field was compromised, warp plasma got loose, the nacelle exploded, and probably sent a shock through the whole system that disrupted all magnetic containment.
there is no massive difference, the core and the nacelles really are that separate an entity.
the warp core truly has nothing to do with warp drive, it just is the best and most efficient way to generate the most plasma that everything on the ship uses like electricity. the fusion reactors would run the warp engines even, there was warp drive before there was M/AM reactors, refereed to commonly as warp cores. but, pure fusion would
-burn through deuterium 20 to 50 times faster per unit of energy
-produce an actual order of magnitude less peek power
-thus limit warp factor potential heavily
-with that fuel consumption, give the ship a relatively short range
the warp core is connected directly to the nacelles, AND everything else. the output pipes don't exclusively head toward the nacelles only. the entire system would absorb feedback, way before the core. but feedback wouldn't even be a thing, it would vent, not jolt backwards. if the nacelle was damage those huge EPS conduits going to them would close off somewhere in the pylon, nacelle damage = core failure does not track what so ever, its total BS, the worst trope nonsense in star trek.
the power demands of combat wouldn't even sweat the warp core, no tactical system could use even a fraction of the power the core could produce, only the nacelles could expend plasma it a core's generation limit. the battle in nemesis was run exclusively on the impulse and auxiliary fusion reactors, thats why it literally just ran out of gas.
what happens in generations, is 'must have been that last torpedo' of the 2 fired at the beginning of the battle, somehow crippling the core coolant system. and also what must have been literally 100 additional mechanical failures that would prevent a reaction shutdown, or an ejection of the damn thing. as a result there was a runaway critical mass breach 2 minutes later. they wanted to destroy the ship, but only spent 5 seconds reasoning how to do it in a way that jived with the rich and fleshed out setting that is the star trek universe. how they destroyed it, and the battle preceding it, was the franchise's least fine hour.
the only thing in a magnetic containment field in a starship is the antimater. again, another bogus 'cause and effect' situation, episode pun intended. damage nacelle causes mag containment failure in what must be the antimater pods, which causes core breach that wouldn't even have had a chance to happen because the antimater would already have done the job, its all laughable. that would be like popping a tire causing you to throw a rod, and also have all your windows shatter. how they explain what happened in the episode is just the writing team rolling a natural 1 on their tech continuity check: EPS system, the story is just that they are stuck in a loop over and over were there is a collision that destroys the ship, they would have been better off not trying to explain how compared to what they came up with. no ship that gets the paint scratched on its nacelle is space worthy, or flagship worthy.
there is no massive difference, the core and the nacelles really are that separate an entity.
Still disagree with you.
the warp core truly has nothing to do with warp drive, it just is the best and most efficient way to generate the most plasma that everything on the ship uses like electricity. the fusion reactors would run the warp engines even, there was warp drive before there was M/AM reactors, refereed to commonly as warp cores. but, pure fusion would
-burn through deuterium 20 to 50 times faster per unit of energy
-produce an actual order of magnitude less peek power
-thus limit warp factor potential heavily
-with that fuel consumption, give the ship a relatively short range
All true.
the warp core is connected directly to the nacelles, AND everything else. the output pipes don't exclusively head toward the nacelles only. the entire system would absorb feedback, way before the core. but feedback wouldn't even be a thing, it would vent, not jolt backwards. if the nacelle was damage those huge EPS conduits going to them would close off somewhere in the pylon, nacelle damage = core failure does not track what so ever, its total BS, the worst trope nonsense in star trek.
The EPS taps are on the PTC also true. But it's still the path of least resistance, the power transfer conduit is still the largest pathway.
the power demands of combat wouldn't even sweat the warp core, no tactical system could use even a fraction of the power the core could produce, only the nacelles could expend plasma it a core's generation limit. the battle in nemesis was run exclusively on the impulse and auxiliary fusion reactors, thats why it literally just ran out of gas.
Full power was an error on my part. That said, class if you'll turn to page 168 in the textbook, under Red Alert, the warp core is still brought up to 75% power during battle. As compared to 20% for Yellow Alert.
what happens in generations, is 'must have been that last torpedo' of the 2 fired at the beginning of the battle, somehow crippling the core coolant system. and also what must have been literally 100 additional mechanical failures that would prevent a reaction shutdown, or an ejection of the damn thing. as a result there was a runaway critical mass breach 2 minutes later. they wanted to destroy the ship, but only spent 5 seconds reasoning how to do it in a way that jived with the rich and fleshed out setting that is the star trek universe. how they destroyed it, and the battle preceding it, was the franchise's least fine hour.
Agreed. There were plenty of better ways to sink her. Frankly it could've been accomplished by just having the Bird of Prey do more damage. A photon torpedo to the Stardrive impulse engine detonating the Deuterium tank. Then since you want the slow death of the ship so everyone can escape, have that fire damage the coolant system.
the only thing in a magnetic containment field in a starship is the antimater. again, another bogus 'cause and effect' situation, episode pun intended. damage nacelle causes mag containment failure in what must be the antimater pods, which causes core breach that wouldn't even have had a chance to happen because the antimater would already have done the job, its all laughable. that would be like popping a tire causing you to throw a rod, and also have all your windows shatter. how they explain what happened in the episode is just the writing team rolling a natural 1 on their tech continuity check: EPS system, the story is just that they are stuck in a loop over and over were there is a collision that destroys the ship, they would have been better off not trying to explain how compared to what they came up with. no ship that gets the paint scratched on its nacelle is space worthy, or flagship worthy.
You're wrong there. You think that it's fine to let the superheated plasma produced by the matter anti-matter reaction touch the physical walls of the ship's components? The entire warp core stack and the power transfer conduits are composed of Magnetic Constrictor Segments. Coincidentally the easiest way to direct plasma. The whole warp drive system is contained in a magnetic field.
That said, they did portray a design flaw, which doesn't make sense in a ship with such a long development. Even though I doubt it was intended. Worse than anything else is that the warp core ejection system which I'd wager has been around at least since the Excelsior, constantly failed. That should be the system with the highest priority on the ship. It should have a worst case scenario manual dump system that operates by explosive charges.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Couldn't agree more - always found this completely stupid. The Yamato pretty much sufferred the same fate too.
For a piece of equipment so vital to the ship, and so very dangerous in the wrong situation, there should have been NUMEROUS failsafes and absolutely NO scenario where there isn't an option to ditch it.
To be fair they do mention that the Yamato's failsafes shouldn't have all failed at once, but was a direct result of a powerful computer virus rewriting everything. As Memory-Alpha points out:
The magnetic seals around the dilithium chamber collapsed, and the computer initiated the emergency release system to dump the Yamato's supply of antimatter. However, the program caused the release to halt with antimatter remaining within the ship, resulting in a warp core breach. MA
The 'death' of the Enterprise D was just too ignoble. There are so many better ways for her to go then 'ancient BOP getting lucky shots'. How about 'Battle Section detonates warp core to seal/repel the nexus' - or 'warp jumping into the path of the Trilithium warhead - and the warhead doing insane damage.
No, we got the Cleavage sisters cheating and a crash landing.
The 'death' of the Enterprise D was just too ignoble. There are so many better ways for her to go then 'ancient BOP getting lucky shots'. How about 'Battle Section detonates warp core to seal/repel the nexus' - or 'warp jumping into the path of the Trilithium warhead - and the warhead doing insane damage.
No, we got the Cleavage sisters cheating and a crash landing.
Generations would've been better overall in that department had they just eliminated the Klingons from the plot entirely and replaced them with the Romulans. The trilithium Soran needs belongs to them, and they could have struck a deal where he "weaponizes" it for them, while also getting to use it for his own plans. This way you'd have the Enterprise-D facing a D'deridex-class warbird, with Tomalak as their opponent, instead of the comedy Klingons we ended up with.
Generations would've been better overall in that department had they just eliminated the Klingons from the plot entirely and replaced them with the Romulans. The trilithium Soran needs belongs to them, and they could have struck a deal where he "weaponizes" it for them, while also getting to use it for his own plans. This way you'd have the Enterprise-D facing a D'deridex-class warbird, with Tomalak as their opponent, instead of the comedy Klingons we ended up with.
I agree the Romulans(especially Tomalak) would have loved to destroy the Enterprise. A warbird would have been a more fitting fight for the Galaxy Class to die in. They hardly ever wanted to fight a warbird in the series. Both ships would have had massive casualties. We could have had a great fight scene in the first TNG movie.
Generations would've been better overall in that department had they just eliminated the Klingons from the plot entirely and replaced them with the Romulans. The trilithium Soran needs belongs to them, and they could have struck a deal where he "weaponizes" it for them, while also getting to use it for his own plans. This way you'd have the Enterprise-D facing a D'deridex-class warbird, with Tomalak as their opponent, instead of the comedy Klingons we ended up with.
Unfortunately Generations wasn't written for the effect or story it had, it was literally written for a budget. The Ent-D had to go because the model was a "nightmare to shoot with" (which is a reason that I can understand) but none of the battle scenes was new, it was all stock footage because it was there.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It is entirely (no pun intended) to throw a engine rod from a blown tire. Ive seen it before at the drag strip on radial tired cars. If the tire blows on a higher powered engine (more than what is typically street drivable) in a "light" car near redline, the tire loses traction and can push it beyond redline throwing a rod. Rev' limiters can help ( if so equipped) but wont always prevent it (ask all the Toyota Celica GTS and Ford Taurus SHO owners that blew heads from a 5-2 downshift). Does it happen everyday? No, but it is feasableand does happen. Sorry, had to jump in, car-guy.:D
Generations would've been better overall in that department had they just eliminated the Klingons from the plot entirely and replaced them with the Romulans. The trilithium Soran needs belongs to them, and they could have struck a deal where he "weaponizes" it for them, while also getting to use it for his own plans. This way you'd have the Enterprise-D facing a D'deridex-class warbird, with Tomalak as their opponent, instead of the comedy Klingons we ended up with.
Tomalak would of been a great finally antagonist to end the D with sense picard and tomalak have been going at it sense season one
there's actually nothing wrong with how the yamato went out, there is even a good tech accurate reasoning behind it, unlike how they handled cause and effect, and generations.
the iconions are like the final boss of the galaxy, the yamato got one of their viruses that DID literally prevent the 100 fail safes in place from preventing core failure from working, its totally believable that the iconions could make a virus do that much damage. the same thing happened to the D, but for basically no reason at all, thats the difference.
and i don't know how i forgot the EPS conduits, of course all the plasma and reaction chambers are also in magnetic fields. still, they cant have been so easy to fail with out a physical breach in the core or conduits themselves, damage to the nacelle can not cause this, there would be thousands of places to close the valve on EPS conduits, even backup force fields could be placed inside of them is those fail. and there would be a 3rd method as well, triple redundancy is on literally everything is how starfleet engineers things. unfortunately, its pretty hard to write around that, so they just don't, mechanical catastrophe is good for ratings.
I remember when I was in the theater for ST3, and was nearly mind blown when Kirk selfdestructed the Enterprise . Even knowing the situation in the story, I still felt it was a weak way for the ship to go down. The D wasnt the only Enterprise to go down like a punk
I remember when I was in the theater for ST3, and was nearly mind blown when Kirk selfdestructed the Enterprise . Even knowing the situation in the story, I still felt it was a weak way for the ship to go down. The D wasnt the only Enterprise to go down like a punk
Yeah, but it was much more believable. The Enterprise was still getting put back together from a battle to the death with Reliant, during which the Enterprise got sucker-punched in the first round. Then, you've automated the ship so 5 people can run the whole thing from the bridge. Ordinarily, the Enterprise could stomp a BoP. One hit caused a lot of damage and without a full crew to repair that, Kirk was low on options. Blowing up the Enterprise to prevent its capture by the Klingons while simultaneously taking out most of Kruge's crew was win-win in a lousy situation.
The D getting taken out by a BoP that it should have stomped, shields or no shields, was a joke.
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true. Except for a T5 Connie. That would be f*%#ing awesome." - Mr. Spock
The 'death' of the Enterprise D was just too ignoble. There are so many better ways for her to go then 'ancient BOP getting lucky shots'. How about 'Battle Section detonates warp core to seal/repel the nexus' - or 'warp jumping into the path of the Trilithium warhead - and the warhead doing insane damage.
Actually I don't think that the Trilithium warhead would've done massive damage.
It's not a Death Star destroying a planet with brute force. A Trilithium Torpedo basically halts the normal nuclear reactions in a star causing a core collapse. Allowing gravity to win...and then the star goes boom. However that wouldn't do anything to a starship's shields.
No, we got the Cleavage sisters cheating and a crash landing.
I have no problem with the cleavage sisters or the crash landing...I'm actually quite fond of B'Etor. :cool:
Generations would've been better overall in that department had they just eliminated the Klingons from the plot entirely and replaced them with the Romulans. The trilithium Soran needs belongs to them, and they could have struck a deal where he "weaponizes" it for them, while also getting to use it for his own plans. This way you'd have the Enterprise-D facing a D'deridex-class warbird, with Tomalak as their opponent, instead of the comedy Klingons we ended up with.
Damn...I never thought of that before. That's really good. That's perfect.
Also the hijacking of LaForge's VISOR is absolutely consistent with previous Romulan tactics and scientific capability. And it's concretely known that they were already aware of LaForge's tactical weakness.
The question then becomes, how do they get the win? This might take a minute, though it would certainly carry the Galaxy class' reputation to the next level if they pull a Keogh and just fire a way and hull tank the TRIBBLE out of a D'deridex and win the fight straight up only for everything to collapse at the end from the extreme damage.
there's actually nothing wrong with how the yamato went out, there is even a good tech accurate reasoning behind it, unlike how they handled cause and effect, and generations.
the iconions are like the final boss of the galaxy, the yamato got one of their viruses that DID literally prevent the 100 fail safes in place from preventing core failure from working, its totally believable that the iconions could make a virus do that much damage. the same thing happened to the D, but for basically no reason at all, thats the difference.
Agreed.
and i don't know how i forgot the EPS conduits, of course all the plasma and reaction chambers are also in magnetic fields. still, they cant have been so easy to fail with out a physical breach in the core or conduits themselves, damage to the nacelle can not cause this, there would be thousands of places to close the valve on EPS conduits, even backup force fields could be placed inside of them is those fail. and there would be a 3rd method as well, triple redundancy is on literally everything is how starfleet engineers things. unfortunately, its pretty hard to write around that, so they just don't, mechanical catastrophe is good for ratings.
Well on that we can agree, that's why I say complete design flaw and will agree to bad writing. I'd have a six layer failsafe system myself.
I remember when I was in the theater for ST3, and was nearly mind blown when Kirk selfdestructed the Enterprise . Even knowing the situation in the story, I still felt it was a weak way for the ship to go down. The D wasnt the only Enterprise to go down like a punk
I've always thought it was a G move.
Kirk was out of moves so he lured his opponents in to point blank range and burned his own house down around them. Though we know he was strictly winging it after he got down to the planet. But he definitely played on Kruge's ego... that said Kruge was still one of the most boss Klingons ever seen. Though he disobeyed Kahless' statement that only a fool fights in a burning house.
With a crew the shields would have been raised and the BoPs torpedo would have done minimal damage. Kirk would have then easily destroyed the BoP and beamed up Spock, Saavik as well as David.
Yep. But as said, the Enterprise never "healed" from the fight with the Reliant...and Khan wore the Enterprise's backside OUT.
There's also irony. In the encounter with Khan, Kirk lost before he began because he wouldn't raise the shields. Now, a few weeks later he lost again, because he couldn't raise the shields, directly as a consequence of the fact that he wouldn't raise the shields back then. His beloved ship...too bad there wasn't a Weyoun available to remark on him being fond of that ship.
The moral of this story of course is always listen to Saavik.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
i just assumed the shield system was just damaged from the last battle with the reliant and was never repaired. remember starfleet was talking about decommissioning the enterpise before they stole it. they where never going to fix it so all the quick patch repair scotty did before they made it to the starbase was all it got. it might of even had parts removed in prep for the decommissioning for use on other ships
also i would really like to read the first draft of generations. it really feels like the klingons where thrown in last minute just so they could use star trek 6 footage. as thinking over ti the main plot works better and makes more sense with a D'D and romulans
even though in one rewrite of the script it was suppose to be a Vor'Cha
Yeah, but it was much more believable. The Enterprise was still getting put back together from a battle to the death with Reliant, during which the Enterprise got sucker-punched in the first round. Then, you've automated the ship so 5 people can run the whole thing from the bridge. Ordinarily, the Enterprise could stomp a BoP. One hit caused a lot of damage and without a full crew to repair that, Kirk was low on options. Blowing up the Enterprise to prevent its capture by the Klingons while simultaneously taking out most of Kruge's crew was win-win in a lousy situation.
The D getting taken out by a BoP that it should have stomped, shields or no shields, was a joke.
I know what you are saying and where you are coming from but it still felt fairly empty of a death of THE Enterprise ( back then, there was only one).
Damn...I never thought of that before. That's really good. That's perfect.
Also the hijacking of LaForge's VISOR is absolutely consistent with previous Romulan tactics and scientific capability. And it's concretely known that they were already aware of LaForge's tactical weakness.
The question then becomes, how do they get the win? This might take a minute, though it would certainly carry the Galaxy class' reputation to the next level if they pull a Keogh and just fire a way and hull tank the TRIBBLE out of a D'deridex and win the fight straight up only for everything to collapse at the end from the extreme damage.
That was sort of my first thought too, though they'd also have an advantage after realising that the Romulans had accessed LaForge's visor, the crew then devise a plan to use that same link to gain some kind of advantage themselves over the warbird.
Fully healed no but definitely operational or "patched up".
No way. The Enterprise had taken no damage. Kirk says shields up. They stop half way. That's not patched. Scotty even said "I didn't expect to take her into battle". He sealed up the hull breaches and made her space worthy again, but she was the Going Merry going to Ennies Lobby, she was not fully operational. A lot of the damage the Enterprise had was gonna need a spacedock to fix, and when they got to the spacedock, they weren't allowed to work on her.
Unfortunately the Enterprise was not set up to be fully automated and Scotty's program wasn't more robust. Perhaps if he had more time the ship would have been ready...like the M5 automation set up.
Yeah, the M5 would've blown the Bird of Prey out of the stars before she decloaked.
i just assumed the shield system was just damaged from the last battle with the reliant and was never repaired. remember starfleet was talking about decommissioning the enterpise before they stole it. they where never going to fix it so all the quick patch repair scotty did before they made it to the starbase was all it got. it might of even had parts removed in prep for the decommissioning for use on other ships
Agreed. Admiral Morrow made it seem like there was no hope for the Enterprise.
also i would really like to read the first draft of generations. it really feels like the klingons where thrown in last minute just so they could use star trek 6 footage. as thinking over ti the main plot works better and makes more sense with a D'D and romulans
even though in one rewrite of the script it was suppose to be a Vor'Cha
Well the earlier drafts would've shown the Romulans Attacking Armagosa, but Jeri Taylor nixed that idea for something more charming, I can only assume Data's emotion chip woes or perhaps Worf's promotion ceremony.
You might be interested to know that another thing that got cut was the Duras sisters surviving the destruction of their Bird and fighting the Enterprise crew in the jungles of Veridian III.
As usual this can be blamed at least in part on the studio....
With the start of preproduction, Berman battled the studio over budget figures, the film cut in cost to an estimated US$35 million. [2] Hopes for location shooting in Hawaii and Idaho were dropped in favor of more local shoots in Hollywood, Marina del Rey, Pasadena, Lone Pine, and the Valley of Fire State Park near Las Vegas, Nevada. By 16 March 1994, Moore and Braga's script reflected budget and cast changes.
That was sort of my first thought too, though they'd also have an advantage after realising that the Romulans had accessed LaForge's visor, the crew then devise a plan to use that same link to gain some kind of advantage themselves over the warbird.
I thought the same, the only issue is them actually figuring it out since that didn't factor into the defeat of the Duras sisters. Though I suppose it's fair leap since the Romulans had done it before. Just investigating in the heat of battle. That said, it's a very Star Trek solution to use the VISOR against them and it's certainly something I'd go with.
I'd have LaForge look at their weapon frequencies so that they would adjust their shields to something that would block them, but have the reading falsified so it would instead allow the Enterprise to fire through their shields.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
Either a global restriction of no more than 8 powers in a field or no more than 2 officer of a field.
Or they can restrict it by ship giving each one a maximum number specific to their intended role.
Ima post this as it's own topic and see how much hate I get.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
hmm... are you sure?
no because... well, this "feature" daesn't seem to work very good indeed, look at generation:D
/kidding!:P
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
If you want the newer ships with the best loadouts you still gotta purchase them. Add to that if you decide or just don't like the design that comes with the bridge officer seating or the console slotting then they will actually be paying more to make a ship with the newest seating (intel and command) or console slotting making them not only get cash for their newer ships but cash to take the best part of that newer ship and stick it on a ship they like.
Most don't care about looks as much as just having the newer ship or the ship with their perceived best loadout. This would mainly be for those that do care for looks but theres a good chance that given the option ppl would pay to not only have the newest toys but have the look they like best. Adds money if anything to ship sales.
That is a matter of perspective. There is a whole generation of gamers who were raised on learning and defeating the predictable patterns of the opponent. On the other hand that's precisely what difficulty levels are for.
Right right.
On points 1 and 2 have you played the Kobali battlezone? I gotta commend Cryptic because those Vaadwaur actually fight. If they could make enemy NPC ships fight like that it would be much more engaging.
On point 3 that's one thing that pisses me off greatly. The NPC HP Sponge. There is no reason why enemies need 600k HP in comparison to our ships, when in many cases, like Tholian ships, they're the same ships that we fly with a sixth of the HP. Clearly the enemies should be using the abilities we use somewhat intelligently. I understand from a simple gameplay perspective. There's the real chance that for players who haven't learned anything beyond what they need to get through the story missions, that they would never be able to beat such an opponent.
And the numbers you face, that's definitely true. Whether it was a factor of limitations of the budget or not, it was rare outside of full scale war to see more than three enemy ships together against our single hero ship. Fewer tougher enemies would make far more sense.
In that scenario, what would escorts whose bread and butter is DPS be left with then? We shouldn't obsolete them while bringing relevance to everything else.
The question is would the change bring in new players as others leave?
She wasn't helpless actually, she stayed in the fight the entire time. The nacelle damage knocked out her warp drive. If that hadn't happened they would've warped out and escaped at the end. It was only at the end that they knocked out the main phaser arrays.
And your memory is betraying you.
Actually the Jem'Hadar didn't focus on the Runabouts. The Runabouts were flanking them for a good portion of the battle. When they actually did fire on a Runabout, they knocked out the Mekong's weapons array and sensors in one volley. Immediately after that the Rio Grande with Sisko and O'Brien showed up, and they all tried to withdraw from the battle. That's when the kamikaze happened.
That battle also showed a mild irony. Captain Keogh ordered shield power diverted to weapons, since the Jem'Hadar could shoot through the shields anway. But if the shields were up, then Jem'Hadar ship wouldn't have been able to ram them in the end.
As for the big E-D's fall, it's interesting. Remember Cause and Effect? When the Enterprise and Brattain collided they knicked the nacelle, very similar to the damage the Bird of Prey managed to do to the nacelles. In both instances, it caused catastrophic damage to the engines that resulted in a warp core breach. In Cause and Effect, they started leaking drive plasma, in Generations it was a Coolant leak. In both situations it was failure that disabled both a core shutdown and core ejection, and preceded containment failure. But it's consistent.
I'm thinking maybe a design flaw that was corrected by the time of the Dominion war.
vape for one thing. also escorts=/=DPS too. their damage dealing is always in peeks and valleys, only beam boats really have anything you can call consistent DPS over time. there is soooooooooooo much more to tactical ship combat then targeting a ship and activating FAW, wait, you don't even have to target them:rolleyes:
say the npc has TT or RSP and some heals, and will use it if a shield facing gets down to 20% or so, well dare them to, fake them out, get them to trigger it without blowing your big buffs, and then waste them with some sort of combo of CRF/BO/THY. its harder to ruse experienced players, but npcs would surly fall for it reliably. their raw hitpoints would be lower, hitpoints are effectively just spike soak. their full potential hitpoints, made mostly up of counters and heals like player ships, if they are cooling down you exploit that and can take them outdurring that defensive gap. if you got a good enough front loaded vap build, that your confident outstrips their spike soak, you can even skip the fake out.
a little tactics and patience can get your target dead a lot faster then constant DPS that will be countered with constant HPS. until hopefully, you eventually out pace it, but in the end you might deal a million damage to a target with 50k hitpoints. right now, thats all you can do though, because they JUST have hitpoints, all you want is DPS that can burn up hitpoints the fastest, tactics would just slow you down. its revolting, i don't know how anyone can enjoy this god awful placeholder tier npc pve, especially "elite", what a joke.
damage to a nacelle causing a core breach would be like popping a tire causing you to throw a rod, the core is just a plasma production facility, its got nothing to do with the warp field. and as far as feedback is concerned, triple redundancy for everything is hard cannon, there would be 3 different types of independent circuit breaker systems in place.
On a similar note that also relates to ground combat and enemies, have you ever played Final Fantasy XII?
It was real time combat, but my favorite part was the team mechanic. Gambits. I've always wanted that in this game. Gambits were a long list of simple commands that you could prioritize. If this happens then do this, if that happens then do that, this has priority over that. So for example, 1st Gambit (prime directive:P), if an enemy is below 15% health focus fire on that enemy, 2nd Gambit-if any team member goes down revive him, 3rd gambit (engineer) At red alert activate shield generator, 4th gambit on any Captain level enemy use weapons malfunction etc.
As long as the higher priority gambits are fulfilled the enemy isn't below 15% health, and no team member is down, and the shield generator is activated or on cooldown, he will use weapons malfunction on a Captain enemy. If none are present he shoots normally.
Such a thing would work great for NPCs both on ground and space, as long as the list of gambits was long enough they would respond appropriately and in a timely manner.
There's a massive difference there. A tire is self contained air bubble that transfers the motive force of the engine to the road.
The Warp Core is directly connected to the Warp Nacelles via the Power Transfer Conduits. And all of it is linked in a single system via the magnetic containment field and plasma. So let's say you introduce a power surge to the magnetic field in one part of the system, if there's a design flaw that doesn't account for that, then any strong shock like that could travel back through the system and cause, in the case of the Enterprise, a catastrophic failure.
The equivalent in a car would be an electric car, where the tires are metal, the car is somehow energized by something it rolls over, and the Faraday cage fails and the engine dies.
But going strictly off of Generations, there was a failure FIRST in the warp coolant system. They suffered a coolant leak that meant that the warp core, which considering it was red alert should have been pumping at maximum, was now overheating. Which is probably why they were able to escape as opposed to Cause and Effect where the magnetic containment field was compromised, warp plasma got loose, the nacelle exploded, and probably sent a shock through the whole system that disrupted all magnetic containment.
there is no massive difference, the core and the nacelles really are that separate an entity.
the warp core truly has nothing to do with warp drive, it just is the best and most efficient way to generate the most plasma that everything on the ship uses like electricity. the fusion reactors would run the warp engines even, there was warp drive before there was M/AM reactors, refereed to commonly as warp cores. but, pure fusion would
-burn through deuterium 20 to 50 times faster per unit of energy
-produce an actual order of magnitude less peek power
-thus limit warp factor potential heavily
-with that fuel consumption, give the ship a relatively short range
the warp core is connected directly to the nacelles, AND everything else. the output pipes don't exclusively head toward the nacelles only. the entire system would absorb feedback, way before the core. but feedback wouldn't even be a thing, it would vent, not jolt backwards. if the nacelle was damage those huge EPS conduits going to them would close off somewhere in the pylon, nacelle damage = core failure does not track what so ever, its total BS, the worst trope nonsense in star trek.
the power demands of combat wouldn't even sweat the warp core, no tactical system could use even a fraction of the power the core could produce, only the nacelles could expend plasma it a core's generation limit. the battle in nemesis was run exclusively on the impulse and auxiliary fusion reactors, thats why it literally just ran out of gas.
what happens in generations, is 'must have been that last torpedo' of the 2 fired at the beginning of the battle, somehow crippling the core coolant system. and also what must have been literally 100 additional mechanical failures that would prevent a reaction shutdown, or an ejection of the damn thing. as a result there was a runaway critical mass breach 2 minutes later. they wanted to destroy the ship, but only spent 5 seconds reasoning how to do it in a way that jived with the rich and fleshed out setting that is the star trek universe. how they destroyed it, and the battle preceding it, was the franchise's least fine hour.
the only thing in a magnetic containment field in a starship is the antimater. again, another bogus 'cause and effect' situation, episode pun intended. damage nacelle causes mag containment failure in what must be the antimater pods, which causes core breach that wouldn't even have had a chance to happen because the antimater would already have done the job, its all laughable. that would be like popping a tire causing you to throw a rod, and also have all your windows shatter. how they explain what happened in the episode is just the writing team rolling a natural 1 on their tech continuity check: EPS system, the story is just that they are stuck in a loop over and over were there is a collision that destroys the ship, they would have been better off not trying to explain how compared to what they came up with. no ship that gets the paint scratched on its nacelle is space worthy, or flagship worthy.
All true.
The EPS taps are on the PTC also true. But it's still the path of least resistance, the power transfer conduit is still the largest pathway.
Full power was an error on my part. That said, class if you'll turn to page 168 in the textbook, under Red Alert, the warp core is still brought up to 75% power during battle. As compared to 20% for Yellow Alert.
Agreed. There were plenty of better ways to sink her. Frankly it could've been accomplished by just having the Bird of Prey do more damage. A photon torpedo to the Stardrive impulse engine detonating the Deuterium tank. Then since you want the slow death of the ship so everyone can escape, have that fire damage the coolant system.
You're wrong there. You think that it's fine to let the superheated plasma produced by the matter anti-matter reaction touch the physical walls of the ship's components? The entire warp core stack and the power transfer conduits are composed of Magnetic Constrictor Segments. Coincidentally the easiest way to direct plasma. The whole warp drive system is contained in a magnetic field.
That said, they did portray a design flaw, which doesn't make sense in a ship with such a long development. Even though I doubt it was intended. Worse than anything else is that the warp core ejection system which I'd wager has been around at least since the Excelsior, constantly failed. That should be the system with the highest priority on the ship. It should have a worst case scenario manual dump system that operates by explosive charges.
To be fair they do mention that the Yamato's failsafes shouldn't have all failed at once, but was a direct result of a powerful computer virus rewriting everything. As Memory-Alpha points out:
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
No, we got the Cleavage sisters cheating and a crash landing.
Generations would've been better overall in that department had they just eliminated the Klingons from the plot entirely and replaced them with the Romulans. The trilithium Soran needs belongs to them, and they could have struck a deal where he "weaponizes" it for them, while also getting to use it for his own plans. This way you'd have the Enterprise-D facing a D'deridex-class warbird, with Tomalak as their opponent, instead of the comedy Klingons we ended up with.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
I agree the Romulans(especially Tomalak) would have loved to destroy the Enterprise. A warbird would have been a more fitting fight for the Galaxy Class to die in. They hardly ever wanted to fight a warbird in the series. Both ships would have had massive casualties. We could have had a great fight scene in the first TNG movie.
Unfortunately Generations wasn't written for the effect or story it had, it was literally written for a budget. The Ent-D had to go because the model was a "nightmare to shoot with" (which is a reason that I can understand) but none of the battle scenes was new, it was all stock footage because it was there.
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Tomalak would of been a great finally antagonist to end the D with sense picard and tomalak have been going at it sense season one
the iconions are like the final boss of the galaxy, the yamato got one of their viruses that DID literally prevent the 100 fail safes in place from preventing core failure from working, its totally believable that the iconions could make a virus do that much damage. the same thing happened to the D, but for basically no reason at all, thats the difference.
and i don't know how i forgot the EPS conduits, of course all the plasma and reaction chambers are also in magnetic fields. still, they cant have been so easy to fail with out a physical breach in the core or conduits themselves, damage to the nacelle can not cause this, there would be thousands of places to close the valve on EPS conduits, even backup force fields could be placed inside of them is those fail. and there would be a 3rd method as well, triple redundancy is on literally everything is how starfleet engineers things. unfortunately, its pretty hard to write around that, so they just don't, mechanical catastrophe is good for ratings.
Yeah, but it was much more believable. The Enterprise was still getting put back together from a battle to the death with Reliant, during which the Enterprise got sucker-punched in the first round. Then, you've automated the ship so 5 people can run the whole thing from the bridge. Ordinarily, the Enterprise could stomp a BoP. One hit caused a lot of damage and without a full crew to repair that, Kirk was low on options. Blowing up the Enterprise to prevent its capture by the Klingons while simultaneously taking out most of Kruge's crew was win-win in a lousy situation.
The D getting taken out by a BoP that it should have stomped, shields or no shields, was a joke.
Actually I don't think that the Trilithium warhead would've done massive damage.
It's not a Death Star destroying a planet with brute force. A Trilithium Torpedo basically halts the normal nuclear reactions in a star causing a core collapse. Allowing gravity to win...and then the star goes boom. However that wouldn't do anything to a starship's shields. I have no problem with the cleavage sisters or the crash landing...I'm actually quite fond of B'Etor. :cool: Damn...I never thought of that before. That's really good. That's perfect.
Also the hijacking of LaForge's VISOR is absolutely consistent with previous Romulan tactics and scientific capability. And it's concretely known that they were already aware of LaForge's tactical weakness.
The question then becomes, how do they get the win? This might take a minute, though it would certainly carry the Galaxy class' reputation to the next level if they pull a Keogh and just fire a way and hull tank the TRIBBLE out of a D'deridex and win the fight straight up only for everything to collapse at the end from the extreme damage. Agreed.
Well on that we can agree, that's why I say complete design flaw and will agree to bad writing. I'd have a six layer failsafe system myself.
I've always thought it was a G move.
Kirk was out of moves so he lured his opponents in to point blank range and burned his own house down around them. Though we know he was strictly winging it after he got down to the planet. But he definitely played on Kruge's ego... that said Kruge was still one of the most boss Klingons ever seen. Though he disobeyed Kahless' statement that only a fool fights in a burning house.
Yep. But as said, the Enterprise never "healed" from the fight with the Reliant...and Khan wore the Enterprise's backside OUT.
There's also irony. In the encounter with Khan, Kirk lost before he began because he wouldn't raise the shields. Now, a few weeks later he lost again, because he couldn't raise the shields, directly as a consequence of the fact that he wouldn't raise the shields back then. His beloved ship...too bad there wasn't a Weyoun available to remark on him being fond of that ship.
The moral of this story of course is always listen to Saavik.
also i would really like to read the first draft of generations. it really feels like the klingons where thrown in last minute just so they could use star trek 6 footage. as thinking over ti the main plot works better and makes more sense with a D'D and romulans
even though in one rewrite of the script it was suppose to be a Vor'Cha
I know what you are saying and where you are coming from but it still felt fairly empty of a death of THE Enterprise ( back then, there was only one).
That was sort of my first thought too, though they'd also have an advantage after realising that the Romulans had accessed LaForge's visor, the crew then devise a plan to use that same link to gain some kind of advantage themselves over the warbird.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Yeah, the M5 would've blown the Bird of Prey out of the stars before she decloaked.
Agreed. Admiral Morrow made it seem like there was no hope for the Enterprise.
Well the earlier drafts would've shown the Romulans Attacking Armagosa, but Jeri Taylor nixed that idea for something more charming, I can only assume Data's emotion chip woes or perhaps Worf's promotion ceremony.
You might be interested to know that another thing that got cut was the Duras sisters surviving the destruction of their Bird and fighting the Enterprise crew in the jungles of Veridian III.
As usual this can be blamed at least in part on the studio....
With the start of preproduction, Berman battled the studio over budget figures, the film cut in cost to an estimated US$35 million. [2] Hopes for location shooting in Hawaii and Idaho were dropped in favor of more local shoots in Hollywood, Marina del Rey, Pasadena, Lone Pine, and the Valley of Fire State Park near Las Vegas, Nevada. By 16 March 1994, Moore and Braga's script reflected budget and cast changes.
I thought the same, the only issue is them actually figuring it out since that didn't factor into the defeat of the Duras sisters. Though I suppose it's fair leap since the Romulans had done it before. Just investigating in the heat of battle. That said, it's a very Star Trek solution to use the VISOR against them and it's certainly something I'd go with.
I'd have LaForge look at their weapon frequencies so that they would adjust their shields to something that would block them, but have the reading falsified so it would instead allow the Enterprise to fire through their shields.