That's what I'm saying. Its entirely within the realms of possibility that Cryptic have been told that they can have a Tier 5 Galaxy in game, but it can't be as good as those ships that come after. Similar argument as the Constitution.
Yeah, well, see, that's the thing: Nobody (reasonable) has actually asked for the GCS to be an ubership. We're asking for something middle-of-the-road, albeit we'd prefer something better than the even older Ambassador and Excelsior, either of which is far more practical to use in the current meta.
Fun fact: The T5 D'deridex was originally going to have the same layout as the Gal-R (you'll notice the T4 D'D is a clone of the T4 GCS). It was changed to what we have now because the layout is terrible and the Tribble testers demanded something better.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
That's what I'm saying. Its entirely within the realms of possibility that Cryptic have been told that they can have a Tier 5 Galaxy in game, but it can't be as good as those ships that come after. Similar argument as the Constitution.
I don't believe that CBS is micro managing on that level. That would require a level of understanding of the game that surpasses what most people seem to think the Devs have.
There's also the fact that the Galaxy class is technically available for endgame.
You have two varieties of Fleet Tier 5-U Galaxy Class available. That's clearly not the same restriction as the Constitution is under.
We're just asking that it be a little more capable and representative of what was seen in the show.
Yeah, well, see, that's the thing: Nobody (reasonable) has actually asked for the GCS to be an ubership. We're asking for something middle-of-the-road, albeit we'd prefer something better than the even older Ambassador and Excelsior, either of which is far more practical to use in the current meta.
Fun fact: The T5 D'deridex was originally going to have the same layout as the Gal-R (you'll notice the T4 D'D is a clone of the T4 GCS). It was changed to what we have now because the layout is terrible and the Tribble testers demanded something better.
This. Especially as the ships are peers it's rather sad that they couldn't give the GCS the nod too.
Correct. The original Enterprise Refit did not possess a rear torpedo tube, the replacement Enterprise-A did. So did all others in the Enterprise class of new ships based on the Refit. This information comes from Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise.
Where on the model is that exactly?
Torpedo tubes aren't like phasers and definitely not in the TOS and TMP era. The main torpedo launcher is a noticeable assembly. As many years as I've been looking at her in V and VI, I never noticed aft torpedoes.
It's been a long time since I read and owned that book, but I do believe something was said about modular designs in there. The new platform Constitutions (Enterprise class) were not nearly as old and decrepit as some people seem to think. All of them were made AFTER Kirk's return from the original 5 Year Mission and none but the original 1701 were built on an original Constitution platform. Every one of the the original Constitution class but Enterprise herself were destroyed in duty, and after the Refit all new ships based on the Refit design were ordered and built.
All the other original thirteen Constitutions being destroyed I haven't heard, though any constructed after 2270 being by default retrofit versions I completely understand, that's just logical.
I remember being shocked at the stupid plot point about bringing back the E-A to be decommissioned in what was it ST6? At the time the ship was only 5 years old! She was a freshly built ship that had not even been assigned her first captain and crew when she was renamed Enterprise and handed to Kirk. Someone clearly forgot that plot point about all the original Constitutions being destroyed and all other ships based on the Refit configuration being all new.
She was launched 2286. She was seven years old.
In that case I don't think she was retired because of the age of the platform.
USS Enterprise at that point was a name synonymous and associated exclusively with a very specific crew. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott, Sulu, Chekov, Uhura. These officers and the ship and the class that they made famous...they were all retiring. Uhura was going to teach at the academy, Sulu had already gotten his own command, Scott was retiring to Norpin colony, Spock was moving on to diplomacy, and Kirk...he didn't know what he was going to do with himself.
And just as importantly, this was the time to move the new generation in. Kirk had ushered in a new age of peace, the Enterprise had one more final fight...and the name Enterprise....
"Captain's log, stardate 9529.1. This is the final cruise of the starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the voyages we have begun and journey to all the undiscovered countries, boldly going where no manwhere no onehas gone before."
With Excelsior production ramping up, it was a good time to pass the torch.
I still think she'd be perfect as a rear-line pure science vessel, stripped of most of her weapons and used as long term placement mobile science stations within safe patrolled territory. A fitting and dignified duty for the grand old lass.
I think Captain Archer would be quite opposed to stripping the ship of her weapons. Besides doing that isn't necessary to increase her science capability. The fact of the matter that gets lost in a lot of this conversation about the size of hulls and what you can put in them is that as the great march of technology goes on, the size of things gets smaller. That long term science station role you're talking about is currently occupied by the Nova class as ship half its size. While both ships have a max speed of Warp 8, the warp scale was changed to the point that the Nova's warp 8 is twice as fast as the Constitution's warp 8.
I like the idea that Constitutions are currently employed as Academy Training vessels. The ships are used to raise the next generation, and the cadets get the history of serving on one of Starfleet's most storied classes.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
You are wrong sir FASA is Hard Canon it is the last word
The Officers manual cost Fasa its lisence and it was published years after ther manuals I quoted were because it was published without even consulting Gene roddenbury which was in their contract to do so
What I refered too is Hard Canon approved by the creator himself and it is the last word on the ships in it
All 3 marks of the constitution are in it from TOS
All 3 marks of the Enterprise is in it from the Movies
both marks of the Excelsior
Some of the Fed starships in Starfleet command were also based on it as well Especially the constitution and enterprise
Another manual published after Genes death is no more canon than the TV series Enterprise is
or JJ Abrams movies are which are both rubbish as far a primeverse matters
If someone from CBS makes a manual tomorrow with the Enterprise using polarons it will be canon in his trek universe Not Primeverse And it will never replace gene roddenburys established Hard canon.
You cannot rewrite history..History has already been made
Correct. The original Enterprise Refit did not possess a rear torpedo tube, the replacement Enterprise-A did. So did all others in the Enterprise class of new ships based on the Refit. This information comes from Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise.
It's been a long time since I read and owned that book, but I do believe something was said about modular designs in there. The new platform Constitutions (Enterprise class) were not nearly as old and decrepit as some people seem to think. All of them were made AFTER Kirk's return from the original 5 Year Mission and none but the original 1701 were built on an original Constitution platform. Every one of the the original Constitution class but Enterprise herself were destroyed in duty, and after the Refit all new ships based on the Refit design were ordered and built.
I remember being shocked at the stupid plot point about bringing back the E-A to be decommissioned in what was it ST6? At the time the ship was only 5 years old! She was a freshly built ship that had not even been assigned her first captain and crew when she was renamed Enterprise and handed to Kirk. Someone clearly forgot that plot point about all the original Constitutions being destroyed and all other ships based on the Refit configuration being all new.
I still think she'd be perfect as a rear-line pure science vessel, stripped of most of her weapons and used as long term placement mobile science stations within safe patrolled territory. A fitting and dignified duty for the grand old lass.
no this is one of the few things i agree with gene on only one refit was built form the keel up the USS Ti-Ho the first transwarp test bed. said so in the same manual you mention mr. scott's guid which i own and signed by james doohan him self great guy glad i got to meet him. any way gene him self and the same book mentions the A use to be the USS Yorktown the TNG manual suggest the same thing.
and a thumbed through the book again and found nothing about a rear torpedo launcher there is a tractor beam emitter in the aft section of the ship
any way gene him self and the same book mentions the A use to be the USS Yorktown the TNG manual suggest the same thing.
The newer Enterprise manual also explicitly states that the Enterprise-A was originally the Yorktown. Anyone who doesn't have it can preview it for free at Amazon. Just search for Yorktown.
In another thread, someone complained about the Galaxy class in game being a "gimped Titanic" and wanted a better one.
The galaxy is a museum piece on this version of STO...IT is a Titanic and does not belong here at this stage of the game...come back 5 years earlier and a different story :cool:
The galaxy is a museum piece on this version of STO...IT is a Titanic and does not belong here at this stage of the game...come back 5 years earlier and a different story :cool:
By this logic - the Excelsior, Constellation, Nebula, Ambassador, Vorcha, D'Deridex, Galor, and Marauder are all 'gimped museum pieces' and should be discarded immediately. The Negh'var, Intrepid, Sovereign, and Scimitar are 'aging rust buckets assigned only to training cruises and milk runs.
By this logic - the Excelsior, Constellation, Nebula, Ambassador, Vorcha, D'Deridex, Galor, and Marauder are all 'gimped museum pieces' and should be discarded immediately. The Negh'var, Intrepid, Sovereign, and Scimitar are 'aging rust buckets assigned only to training cruises and milk runs.
And no one is going to pry my Rom out of the command chair of his D'Deridex.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Nova is an exploration vessel like the Constitution was, operating in unknown territory and able to be ready for anything. That takes a modern ship with cutting edge capabilities.
no it wasn't, its a survey ship. after a local deep space station gets set up, novas scan every inch of the new frontier a few years after the actual explorer has been through the area. the equinox was proof that the class is no long mission trail blazer.
I do remember mention of an aft torpedo launcher on the Constitution. I remember where it was supposed to be.
Between the impulse engines at the aft of the saucer.
The funny thing is that there's a possibility of it being visible in the original configuration... http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:USS_Enterprise,_aft_view.jpg
Especially considering one would be hard pressed to find the forward torpedo launcher on the original configuration (forward above the sensor dome...which reminds me that John Eaves placed the Quantum Torpedo launcher in the same place on the Sovereign....that man does use his history well).
Nova is an exploration vessel like the Constitution was, operating in unknown territory and able to be ready for anything. That takes a modern ship with cutting edge capabilities.
What I picture for the Con-R / Enterprise class is much quieter duty. I see her going out to park in orbit of an anomaly for 8 months at a stretch, or going through a star cluster running detailed and long term scans of every body in each system, mapping them down to the centimeter. Sitting near a quasar and taking readings for an extended period. That sort of thing, inside patrolled Federation space, getting all the nitty gritty detail data that takes far longer than an explorer vessel has time to commit.
Actually no.
The Nova class is, as you said, for quieter duty. Top speed of warp 8, she was the replacement for the Oberth class, which is designed to sit in orbit of an anomaly, like the Genesis planet, for eight months and map every cubic centimeter.
It was part of the plot point of Equinox that the Nova class was vastly inferior to the Intrepid and poorly equipped for long term deep space missions with no support. The idea is that the explorers come through an area and map everything and explore everything of interest and then hand it over to the small dedicated super science ships for the in depth on site studies.
That also is consistent with the Nova class' physical origins. The Nova was in the same design program as the Defiant, a fast torpedo boat. But like the Defiant it's small, compact, and ill suited for long missions away from Starbase support.
As to weapons, the primary saucer hull has 6 dual phaser emitters in ball turret assemblies, 3 on the top 3 underneath. Removing them and replacing them with a semi-circle phaser strip around the sensor dome where those heavy running lights are in the current design would save a lot of space, and retain the use of phasers for mostly utilitarian purposes. That space could be devoted to expanded lab facilities and more crew amenities such as holodecks, as well as a dedicated Astrometrics lab of the type seen on Galaxy.
I gotta say I'd pay money to get a functional Galaxy class Astrometrics lab on my ship. MAN. Talk about scenery TRIBBLE.
Don't forget that if you did a full technological update for a Constitution then the automation would go up. You wouldn't even need the two trainees anymore, the Chimp could solo. You'd be looking at a crew of maybe 150, with maybe 50 civilian scientists.
This of course has no bearing on the game, as such a ship and duty wouldn't be the province of player characters, but I like the idea of such pure science being done by the venerable old Enterprise class.
Spshh, okay. Believe that if you want.
If they actually go the full explorer and put meaningful exploration in this game, you think people wouldn't camp on a planet or star cluster? :cool:
But yeah purely from a Starfleet functionality perspective, sure having a pure science Constitution would be a worthy retirement.
And no one is going to pry my Rom out of the command chair of his D'Deridex.
Which has a better layout than the Galaxy :P
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I haven't owned the book since the late 1980s so I can't provide page references, but I distinctly remember them discussing the new A having a rear torpedo tube and mentioning how it was a correction for a glaring hole in the original ship's arsenal. It was situated between the nacelles along the centerline of the top of the Engineering hull, almost unnoticeable except for a small hole almost directly between the nacelles if I recall correctly.
The book also listed names of ships built or to be commissioned as part of the new Enterprise Class based directly on the Constitution Refit. I believe that is towards the very back of the book, in an addendum devoted specifically to the A.
That book also was quite clear that all other Constitutions had been lost in the line of duty, with either ships or crews or both destroyed. Enterprise was the only one to survive and return with ship and crew intact, which is what earned her a special place of pride in the fleet. Prior, Enterprise was not the flagship she was merely one of the line of the top line best in the fleet ships, with 12 more just like her. Enterprise distinguished herself by coming home when no one else did.
I pored over that book obsessively when I was a kid. I miss that level of detail and tight continuity and wish it was something that Star Trek could still claim.
honestly all this talking is making me want to reread it just to see. but mainly going off of the studio model
Nova is an exploration vessel like the Constitution was, operating in unknown territory and able to be ready for anything. That takes a modern ship with cutting edge capabilities.(...)
Other posters already poninted out what role the Nova class ended up with but I wanted to mention that I see where you are coming from. You are probably thinking about how the TM states that the Nova-class was the intented successor of the Galaxy class, but the actual Nova class that made it on-screen was a vastly different design from what the TM presented as design studies back in the day.
It is possible that the Rhode Island-type refit was more capable of deep space operations but technically that ship is an alternate reality version like the Galaxy-refit in AGT.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Other posters already poninted out what role the Nova class ended up with but I wanted to mention that I see where you are coming from. You are probably thinking about how the TM states that the Nova-class was the intented successor of the Galaxy class, but the actual Nova class that made it on-screen was a vastly different design from what the TM presented as design studies back in the day.
It is possible that the Rhode Island-type refit was more capable of deep space operations but technically that ship is an alternate reality version like the Galaxy-refit in AGT.
ya, the road island seems like its probably a ship thats not so decontented like the equinox was. probably has a warp core larger then a stripper pole so it can actually travel at respectable warp speeds too. my guess is that it was a lot more like the defiant then it was like an oberth, the way it dared to attack multiple negvars.
still, a ship that small is in no way exploration worthy. not even the intrepid was, but starfleet overbuilds ships well enough, and jainway was enough of a tyrannical survivor, and mid to late voyager's main theme became such a limp wristed background plot point, that the uss voyager made it work.
The Rhode Island was noted, at least twice, to have been on a four-year exploration mission, from dialogue in 'Endgame'.
And whilst NCC numbers are often confusing and don't necessarily make much sense, the USS Rhode Island had an NCC number of 72701, suggesting that it was built before the USS Intrepid (NCC-74600) and Voyager (NCC-74656). I have therefore always assumed that it was an existing, unrefit, Nova class, and was in operation before Voyager was swept to the Delta Quadrant.
I have also always assumed that the scenario was much the same as the Enterprise-D in 'All Good Things' - namely that the USS Rhode Island was an existing starship, and 'Endgame' gave us a look at one possible future for it.
And that being said, the Nova refit is hardly a vast departure from the base design.
The Nova class most likely was in service before Voyager was, since when they found the Equinox, Janeway was able to identify the ship and knew it's specifications. It was then when she specifically identified the class as a planetary research vessel with minimal tactical capability and no means to venture into deep space. The Rhose Island was, as you pointed out, an alternate timeline product like Riker's Ent-D and it seemed in a much better state overall. But we cannot say anything more about it. Wasn't the Nova class model one of these they didn't even had a dorsal image of? that might explain why the Rhode Island didn't experience that much optical change. A "refit" though, in Trek-terms, means an extensive upgrade with completely new constructed parts of the spaceframe while a "retrofit" would be on-the-fly single systems upgrades within the limitations of the spaceframe.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
So far as the actual Rhode Island model itself is concerned, this was what Robert Bonchune said about it:
Well, that kinda reinforces that the Rhode Island-type was quite different form the original Nova, at least
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I like how those fan designs (even when based on original design sketches) always have to cram super-turpo-torpedo turrets, phaser cannons and space marines on Starfleet ships :P:D
But the overall shape isn't half-bad. I would have liked if Cryptic would at least pay tribute to those (original!) designs. And knowing them they had made it into a tactical warcruiser (just like the fan design) as well
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I think the early ships of the Galaxy class were a pretty fragile but that doesn't mean that later ships were. Especially after the return of the Romulans and contact with the Borg. I'll bet they held their own. And let's not forget, both the Enterprise and the Odyssey lasted pretty long even though their shields weren't working.
I think the early ships of the Galaxy class were a pretty fragile but that doesn't mean that later ships were. Especially after the return of the Romulans and contact with the Borg. I'll bet they held their own. And let's not forget, both the Enterprise and the Odyssey lasted pretty long even though their shields weren't working.
And remember, the Ent-D wasn't destroyed by structural damage, but containment failure. It took minimal hull damage from two unshielded torpedo strikes and numerous unshielded disruptor strikes.
Also, the Jem'Hadar had to kamikaze the Odyssey before it was destroyed. Before the kamikaze run, the Odyssey wasn't even disabled.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
That might be better even. Whatever, I'd like to see something based on that design. Just like I would love to see someone at Cryptic (or any artist) and create a decent design of the Jupiter dreadnought that is already in the game. (Yes, I think it needs changes, but I think there are hints in it that could make it interesting. Maybe not "beautiful", but the kind of ugliness that you can grow to like.)
But that's unlikely to happen. But if people call some existing designs of Federation ships "non-canon made up" ships that "show that the designers have no clue about Star Trek", I think they should look at that design and realize that this was made by the very people that were working on the original show - you can't get closer to being "clue-ful" about canon or Star Trek then the writers and artists of the Enterprise D Technical Manual.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Other posters already poninted out what role the Nova class ended up with but I wanted to mention that I see where you are coming from. You are probably thinking about how the TM states that the Nova-class was the intented successor of the Galaxy class, but the actual Nova class that made it on-screen was a vastly different design from what the TM presented as design studies back in the day.
It is possible that the Rhode Island-type refit was more capable of deep space operations but technically that ship is an alternate reality version like the Galaxy-refit in AGT.
Ah the original conjectural Nova class. A name passed on to a different project.
The Nova class most likely was in service before Voyager was, since when they found the Equinox, Janeway was able to identify the ship and knew it's specifications. It was then when she specifically identified the class as a planetary research vessel with minimal tactical capability and no means to venture into deep space. The Rhose Island was, as you pointed out, an alternate timeline product like Riker's Ent-D and it seemed in a much better state overall. But we cannot say anything more about it. Wasn't the Nova class model one of these they didn't even had a dorsal image of? that might explain why the Rhode Island didn't experience that much optical change. A "refit" though, in Trek-terms, means an extensive upgrade with completely new constructed parts of the spaceframe while a "retrofit" would be on-the-fly single systems upgrades within the limitations of the spaceframe.
Yeah the didn't complete it from all angles originally. The designers actually went back and fixed some things when they had the opportunity with the Rhode Island, so from the production teams' perspective, the Rhode Island is the ultimate version of the ship.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I think the early ships of the Galaxy class were a pretty fragile but that doesn't mean that later ships were. Especially after the return of the Romulans and contact with the Borg. I'll bet they held their own. And let's not forget, both the Enterprise and the Odyssey lasted pretty long even though their shields weren't working.
The Early Galaxy classes weren't any more fragile then the later ones. The Enterprise was commanded by a diplomat who didn't know how far and hard he could push the ship. The reason the Enterprise 'seemed' weak is because during the first two seasons the only enemies were 'baddies of the weak' - and any one off villian has plot armor 4000tm.
The Yamato was destroyed by the Iconian computer virus. The same virus that disables OUR ships in the game and requires full computer purges. This is 40 or 50 years later. The T'kon guardian disabled the Enterprise and a D'Kora with stupid ease. So many of the Enterprise's early enemies were demigods, supremely advanced tech, or really off writing.
As to when she finally opens fire on something - Picard was a diplomat. Outside the Borg, he hardly ever orders all weapons firing - burn them down!
Don't even get me started on the Generations fight - except for the fact that in the Generations game - the Enterprise was saved. They were even planning on replacing the 'D' with a new 'E' Galaxy class. There's even a physical model that was prepared for First Contact - but it was replaced with the Sovereign because the directors wanted a more 'action oriented' ship.
The Early Galaxy classes weren't any more fragile then the later ones. The Enterprise was commanded by a diplomat who didn't know how far and hard he could push the ship. The reason the Enterprise 'seemed' weak is because during the first two seasons the only enemies were 'baddies of the weak' - and any one off villian has plot armor 4000tm.
The Yamato was destroyed by the Iconian computer virus. The same virus that disables OUR ships in the game and requires full computer purges. This is 40 or 50 years later. The T'kon guardian disabled the Enterprise and a D'Kora with stupid ease. So many of the Enterprise's early enemies were demigods, supremely advanced tech, or really off writing.
As to when she finally opens fire on something - Picard was a diplomat. Outside the Borg, he hardly ever orders all weapons firing - burn them down!
Don't even get me started on the Generations fight - except for the fact that in the Generations game - the Enterprise was saved. They were even planning on replacing the 'D' with a new 'E' Galaxy class. There's even a physical model that was prepared for First Contact - but it was replaced with the Sovereign because the directors wanted a more 'action oriented' ship.
The Early Galaxy classes weren't any more fragile then the later ones. The Enterprise was commanded by a diplomat who didn't know how far and hard he could push the ship. The reason the Enterprise 'seemed' weak is because during the first two seasons the only enemies were 'baddies of the weak' - and any one off villian has plot armor 4000tm.
The Yamato was destroyed by the Iconian computer virus. The same virus that disables OUR ships in the game and requires full computer purges. This is 40 or 50 years later. The T'kon guardian disabled the Enterprise and a D'Kora with stupid ease. So many of the Enterprise's early enemies were demigods, supremely advanced tech, or really off writing.
As to when she finally opens fire on something - Picard was a diplomat. Outside the Borg, he hardly ever orders all weapons firing - burn them down!
Don't even get me started on the Generations fight - except for the fact that in the Generations game - the Enterprise was saved. They were even planning on replacing the 'D' with a new 'E' Galaxy class. There's even a physical model that was prepared for First Contact - but it was replaced with the Sovereign because the directors wanted a more 'action oriented' ship.
Indeed, rumors of the Galaxy's fragility have been greatly exaggerated.
I'll give another example. An even fight. The Enterprise-D versus the Tamarian Cruiser.
Intention carries a lot of weight in these fights. The Enterprise had a simple goal. Disable the Tamarian scattering field and beam Captain Picard up. So they targeted the specific areas of the ship that would accomplish that. Through that ships shields, they knocked out the scattering field. Then they beamed Picard up. The Tamarian ship of course had just been fired on, so they responded with fire and rage, striking hard and largely disabling the Enterprise. Now if the Enterprise had wanted to knock out their weapons and shields, then they had the opportunity, but that was not the goal, they came to the planet to establish diplomatic relations for God's sake.
So the first volley from the Tamarians knocks the shields overall down to 52%, but offlines the forward shields. The Enterprise returns fire, but their shields hold. They then knock out the Starboard nacelle. Riker orders a warp speed strategic withdrawal but since the nacelle is hit, they're stuck, so he orders them to fall back at impulse, but the Tamarians match their maneuver. The Enterprise returns fire, but the Tamarian shields still hold. Their next volley offlines all the shields and Data announces that another hit will finish them, I assume because at this point main power has been disrupted. Then Picard comes in with his smooth super effective conversation roll for the diplomatic victory. A point that should be noted, that the two minutes that Picard spends talking were all that was needed for main power to be restored. No torpedoes were fired, all energy weapons.
So do we assume that the Enterprise was weak? No, the Enterprise crew had no desire to prosecute a fight, and the Tamarian ship was just as strong, if not a little stronger. Probably a higher shield modifier and she was using Dual Beam banks Or at least Single Beam Emitters.
But it wasn't the Lysians in Conundrum, where the Enterprise soloed with zero difficulty either. And we didn't get any damage reports from the Tamarian vessel so we don't know if they were shutting down life support to maintain shields under those shots or what.
The Enterprise was regularly challenged but destroying it in head to head combat that they wanted to fight out, wasn't shown except against the Borg. Tomalak didn't jump stupid against the Enterprise. Most aliens didn't directly want to go against the Enterprise unless they were substantially more advanced races.
As for the Battle of Veridian III.....that seemed almost like an accident. Perhaps a design flaw in the early galaxy's warp core containment. But one that was apparently corrected.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
Yeah, well, see, that's the thing: Nobody (reasonable) has actually asked for the GCS to be an ubership. We're asking for something middle-of-the-road, albeit we'd prefer something better than the even older Ambassador and Excelsior, either of which is far more practical to use in the current meta.
Fun fact: The T5 D'deridex was originally going to have the same layout as the Gal-R (you'll notice the T4 D'D is a clone of the T4 GCS). It was changed to what we have now because the layout is terrible and the Tribble testers demanded something better.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I don't believe that CBS is micro managing on that level. That would require a level of understanding of the game that surpasses what most people seem to think the Devs have.
There's also the fact that the Galaxy class is technically available for endgame.
You have two varieties of Fleet Tier 5-U Galaxy Class available. That's clearly not the same restriction as the Constitution is under.
We're just asking that it be a little more capable and representative of what was seen in the show.
This. Especially as the ships are peers it's rather sad that they couldn't give the GCS the nod too.
Where on the model is that exactly?
Torpedo tubes aren't like phasers and definitely not in the TOS and TMP era. The main torpedo launcher is a noticeable assembly. As many years as I've been looking at her in V and VI, I never noticed aft torpedoes.
All the other original thirteen Constitutions being destroyed I haven't heard, though any constructed after 2270 being by default retrofit versions I completely understand, that's just logical.
She was launched 2286. She was seven years old.
In that case I don't think she was retired because of the age of the platform.
USS Enterprise at that point was a name synonymous and associated exclusively with a very specific crew. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott, Sulu, Chekov, Uhura. These officers and the ship and the class that they made famous...they were all retiring. Uhura was going to teach at the academy, Sulu had already gotten his own command, Scott was retiring to Norpin colony, Spock was moving on to diplomacy, and Kirk...he didn't know what he was going to do with himself.
And just as importantly, this was the time to move the new generation in. Kirk had ushered in a new age of peace, the Enterprise had one more final fight...and the name Enterprise....
"Captain's log, stardate 9529.1. This is the final cruise of the starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the voyages we have begun and journey to all the undiscovered countries, boldly going where no manwhere no onehas gone before."
With Excelsior production ramping up, it was a good time to pass the torch.
I think Captain Archer would be quite opposed to stripping the ship of her weapons. Besides doing that isn't necessary to increase her science capability. The fact of the matter that gets lost in a lot of this conversation about the size of hulls and what you can put in them is that as the great march of technology goes on, the size of things gets smaller. That long term science station role you're talking about is currently occupied by the Nova class as ship half its size. While both ships have a max speed of Warp 8, the warp scale was changed to the point that the Nova's warp 8 is twice as fast as the Constitution's warp 8.
I like the idea that Constitutions are currently employed as Academy Training vessels. The ships are used to raise the next generation, and the cadets get the history of serving on one of Starfleet's most storied classes.
no this is one of the few things i agree with gene on only one refit was built form the keel up the USS Ti-Ho the first transwarp test bed. said so in the same manual you mention mr. scott's guid which i own and signed by james doohan him self great guy glad i got to meet him. any way gene him self and the same book mentions the A use to be the USS Yorktown the TNG manual suggest the same thing.
and a thumbed through the book again and found nothing about a rear torpedo launcher there is a tractor beam emitter in the aft section of the ship
The newer Enterprise manual also explicitly states that the Enterprise-A was originally the Yorktown. Anyone who doesn't have it can preview it for free at Amazon. Just search for Yorktown.
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-U-S-S-Enterprise-Haynes/dp/1451621299/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424216189&sr=8-1&keywords=enterprise+manual
The galaxy is a museum piece on this version of STO...IT is a Titanic and does not belong here at this stage of the game...come back 5 years earlier and a different story :cool:
By this logic - the Excelsior, Constellation, Nebula, Ambassador, Vorcha, D'Deridex, Galor, and Marauder are all 'gimped museum pieces' and should be discarded immediately. The Negh'var, Intrepid, Sovereign, and Scimitar are 'aging rust buckets assigned only to training cruises and milk runs.
And no one is going to pry my Rom out of the command chair of his D'Deridex.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
no it wasn't, its a survey ship. after a local deep space station gets set up, novas scan every inch of the new frontier a few years after the actual explorer has been through the area. the equinox was proof that the class is no long mission trail blazer.
I do remember mention of an aft torpedo launcher on the Constitution. I remember where it was supposed to be.
Between the impulse engines at the aft of the saucer.
The funny thing is that there's a possibility of it being visible in the original configuration...
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:USS_Enterprise,_aft_view.jpg
Especially considering one would be hard pressed to find the forward torpedo launcher on the original configuration (forward above the sensor dome...which reminds me that John Eaves placed the Quantum Torpedo launcher in the same place on the Sovereign....that man does use his history well).
But not the Refit...unless there are doors that open up, which would be rather cool actually...
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Constitution_class_refit_impulsedrive.jpg
Actually no.
The Nova class is, as you said, for quieter duty. Top speed of warp 8, she was the replacement for the Oberth class, which is designed to sit in orbit of an anomaly, like the Genesis planet, for eight months and map every cubic centimeter.
It was part of the plot point of Equinox that the Nova class was vastly inferior to the Intrepid and poorly equipped for long term deep space missions with no support. The idea is that the explorers come through an area and map everything and explore everything of interest and then hand it over to the small dedicated super science ships for the in depth on site studies.
That also is consistent with the Nova class' physical origins. The Nova was in the same design program as the Defiant, a fast torpedo boat. But like the Defiant it's small, compact, and ill suited for long missions away from Starbase support.
I gotta say I'd pay money to get a functional Galaxy class Astrometrics lab on my ship. MAN. Talk about scenery TRIBBLE.
Don't forget that if you did a full technological update for a Constitution then the automation would go up. You wouldn't even need the two trainees anymore, the Chimp could solo. You'd be looking at a crew of maybe 150, with maybe 50 civilian scientists.
Spshh, okay. Believe that if you want.
If they actually go the full explorer and put meaningful exploration in this game, you think people wouldn't camp on a planet or star cluster? :cool:
But yeah purely from a Starfleet functionality perspective, sure having a pure science Constitution would be a worthy retirement.
Which has a better layout than the Galaxy :P
honestly all this talking is making me want to reread it just to see. but mainly going off of the studio model
Other posters already poninted out what role the Nova class ended up with but I wanted to mention that I see where you are coming from. You are probably thinking about how the TM states that the Nova-class was the intented successor of the Galaxy class, but the actual Nova class that made it on-screen was a vastly different design from what the TM presented as design studies back in the day.
It is possible that the Rhode Island-type refit was more capable of deep space operations but technically that ship is an alternate reality version like the Galaxy-refit in AGT.
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ya, the road island seems like its probably a ship thats not so decontented like the equinox was. probably has a warp core larger then a stripper pole so it can actually travel at respectable warp speeds too. my guess is that it was a lot more like the defiant then it was like an oberth, the way it dared to attack multiple negvars.
still, a ship that small is in no way exploration worthy. not even the intrepid was, but starfleet overbuilds ships well enough, and jainway was enough of a tyrannical survivor, and mid to late voyager's main theme became such a limp wristed background plot point, that the uss voyager made it work.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/9/99/Nova_concepts.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091222085646
Cryptic should give us the one in the lower right. That would sure raise some eye brows.
The Nova class most likely was in service before Voyager was, since when they found the Equinox, Janeway was able to identify the ship and knew it's specifications. It was then when she specifically identified the class as a planetary research vessel with minimal tactical capability and no means to venture into deep space. The Rhose Island was, as you pointed out, an alternate timeline product like Riker's Ent-D and it seemed in a much better state overall. But we cannot say anything more about it. Wasn't the Nova class model one of these they didn't even had a dorsal image of? that might explain why the Rhode Island didn't experience that much optical change. A "refit" though, in Trek-terms, means an extensive upgrade with completely new constructed parts of the spaceframe while a "retrofit" would be on-the-fly single systems upgrades within the limitations of the spaceframe.
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Well, that kinda reinforces that the Rhode Island-type was quite different form the original Nova, at least
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http://unusualsuspex.deviantart.com/art/Insignia-class-ortho-USS-Insignia-408871292
http://markkingsnorth.deviantart.com/art/Insignia-Class-in-Dry-Dock-188603586
I like how those fan designs (even when based on original design sketches) always have to cram super-turpo-torpedo turrets, phaser cannons and space marines on Starfleet ships :P:D
But the overall shape isn't half-bad. I would have liked if Cryptic would at least pay tribute to those (original!) designs. And knowing them they had made it into a tactical warcruiser (just like the fan design) as well
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I meant the other lower right. The one with no saucer-shaped parts. We could call it "Hammerprise".
And remember, the Ent-D wasn't destroyed by structural damage, but containment failure. It took minimal hull damage from two unshielded torpedo strikes and numerous unshielded disruptor strikes.
Also, the Jem'Hadar had to kamikaze the Odyssey before it was destroyed. Before the kamikaze run, the Odyssey wasn't even disabled.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
That might be better even. Whatever, I'd like to see something based on that design. Just like I would love to see someone at Cryptic (or any artist) and create a decent design of the Jupiter dreadnought that is already in the game. (Yes, I think it needs changes, but I think there are hints in it that could make it interesting. Maybe not "beautiful", but the kind of ugliness that you can grow to like.)
But that's unlikely to happen. But if people call some existing designs of Federation ships "non-canon made up" ships that "show that the designers have no clue about Star Trek", I think they should look at that design and realize that this was made by the very people that were working on the original show - you can't get closer to being "clue-ful" about canon or Star Trek then the writers and artists of the Enterprise D Technical Manual.
Ah the original conjectural Nova class. A name passed on to a different project.
Then there was the actual predecessor to the Nova, the Defiant pathfinder design.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/c/cb/Defiant_pathfinder.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090925011549
I always liked the one on the lower left.
But yeah the one on the lower right would TRIBBLE off quite a few people. I wonder how Cryptic would finish it though....
Yeah the didn't complete it from all angles originally. The designers actually went back and fixed some things when they had the opportunity with the Rhode Island, so from the production teams' perspective, the Rhode Island is the ultimate version of the ship.
The Early Galaxy classes weren't any more fragile then the later ones. The Enterprise was commanded by a diplomat who didn't know how far and hard he could push the ship. The reason the Enterprise 'seemed' weak is because during the first two seasons the only enemies were 'baddies of the weak' - and any one off villian has plot armor 4000tm.
The Yamato was destroyed by the Iconian computer virus. The same virus that disables OUR ships in the game and requires full computer purges. This is 40 or 50 years later. The T'kon guardian disabled the Enterprise and a D'Kora with stupid ease. So many of the Enterprise's early enemies were demigods, supremely advanced tech, or really off writing.
As to when she finally opens fire on something - Picard was a diplomat. Outside the Borg, he hardly ever orders all weapons firing - burn them down!
Don't even get me started on the Generations fight - except for the fact that in the Generations game - the Enterprise was saved. They were even planning on replacing the 'D' with a new 'E' Galaxy class. There's even a physical model that was prepared for First Contact - but it was replaced with the Sovereign because the directors wanted a more 'action oriented' ship.
behold the first "E"
Indeed, rumors of the Galaxy's fragility have been greatly exaggerated.
I'll give another example. An even fight. The Enterprise-D versus the Tamarian Cruiser.
Intention carries a lot of weight in these fights. The Enterprise had a simple goal. Disable the Tamarian scattering field and beam Captain Picard up. So they targeted the specific areas of the ship that would accomplish that. Through that ships shields, they knocked out the scattering field. Then they beamed Picard up. The Tamarian ship of course had just been fired on, so they responded with fire and rage, striking hard and largely disabling the Enterprise. Now if the Enterprise had wanted to knock out their weapons and shields, then they had the opportunity, but that was not the goal, they came to the planet to establish diplomatic relations for God's sake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CEgqKh8t8k
So the first volley from the Tamarians knocks the shields overall down to 52%, but offlines the forward shields. The Enterprise returns fire, but their shields hold. They then knock out the Starboard nacelle. Riker orders a warp speed strategic withdrawal but since the nacelle is hit, they're stuck, so he orders them to fall back at impulse, but the Tamarians match their maneuver. The Enterprise returns fire, but the Tamarian shields still hold. Their next volley offlines all the shields and Data announces that another hit will finish them, I assume because at this point main power has been disrupted. Then Picard comes in with his smooth super effective conversation roll for the diplomatic victory. A point that should be noted, that the two minutes that Picard spends talking were all that was needed for main power to be restored. No torpedoes were fired, all energy weapons.
So do we assume that the Enterprise was weak? No, the Enterprise crew had no desire to prosecute a fight, and the Tamarian ship was just as strong, if not a little stronger. Probably a higher shield modifier and she was using Dual Beam banks Or at least Single Beam Emitters.
But it wasn't the Lysians in Conundrum, where the Enterprise soloed with zero difficulty either. And we didn't get any damage reports from the Tamarian vessel so we don't know if they were shutting down life support to maintain shields under those shots or what.
The Enterprise was regularly challenged but destroying it in head to head combat that they wanted to fight out, wasn't shown except against the Borg. Tomalak didn't jump stupid against the Enterprise. Most aliens didn't directly want to go against the Enterprise unless they were substantially more advanced races.
As for the Battle of Veridian III.....that seemed almost like an accident. Perhaps a design flaw in the early galaxy's warp core containment. But one that was apparently corrected.