there's an inherent flaw to this train of thought. Mainly that Taco shows up to have fun, and usually posts nothing of substance. Whenever Geko posts, people analyze every syllable looking for hidden meanings. Then bash him for things he didn't say. Granted people do sometimes find things of substance that he didn't say directly. IIRC he made the infamous post on the "pet nerf" that listed a bunch of pets that weren't even in the game yet. However, more often than not, the complaints are tinfoil hat territory.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone inferring that TF is posting here for fun only. Sure, he throws a few jabs back here and there, now and again, but he does try to communicate with the player base here on the forums. Do I wish there was more communication? Of course I do, but some is far better than none.
Geko has had ample opportunities to make comments in a spirit of communication. Even if he were to lock his post so there could be no responses he could ignore the inherent flame war that would erupt herein, but no one could say he was afraid to communicate. Granted, it would be a one-side dialogue, but depending on the info presented it doesn't ned to be an endless tete a tete. However. he has chosen to hide and remain silent here on the forums. Why? Because he is afraid of receiving negative commentary and feedback? Welcome to the real world. People are are jerks. It can't be avoided.
People will attack every post, whether it is from Geko, Taco, BlueGeek or your average player. That is the nature of the forums - as it should be: a place to share opinions and engage in debate. Opinions are just that - an opinion, neither right nor wrong and entirely open to scrutiny. Information is just that - info. It can be debated and shared and it can be correct or incorrect. In fact, more times than not it not only encourages but requires debate.
If I have said it once I have said it a million times: we know not every issue can be magically fixed and we don't expect them to be. We do, however, expect to be reassured these issues have been reported, received and are being reviewed, even if on a locked, once-a-month dev post listing the top 10 most reported bugs. As the months progress and that list changes or becomes shorter, we, the players, can see that issues are in fact being addressed. Cryptic is a service provider in the entertainment industry and we are the consumers. Unhappy consumers usually means less product usage, increased negative word of mouth and the risk of a financial hit all things to be avoided.
All which CAN be avoided with some basic communication. Its pretty basic business sense. You cant make your clients happy all of the time but you can (and should) make them feel that their voices are indeed being heard and taken seriously. Even the tinfoil hat complaints need to be assured that, although there is no evidence of their complaint, the message has been heard and will be monitored.
And if you can't face the heat from passionate players because your feelings get hurt... well maybe you and your whole company needs to RETHINK the entire F2P Business Model and what these consumers hate. In order to make the game better you're going to have to face the music and do things differently.
Yup. Can't say I'm having much sympathy for Geko. Trying to level my alt now. And guess what?! I'm running into endless passive-aggressive walls, put in there by Geko. shortly after the release of DR, to slow me down on purpose. For one, leveling takes much longer now. But you can't do Argala until you're lv 54. Cute, eh? All these mechanism in place, just to deliberately frustrate players, what's the point!? Oh yeah, monetization, that was the point! Knowing full well people would hate it. But he did it anyway. So, Mr. Geko, you made your bed, now lie in it.
I don't believe that's the case for a number of people who are prolificate here on the forums, who've gone way past frustrated and angry all the way into castle-storming and pitchforks.
It almost amuses me to see some people sharing fond recollections of Dan Stahl when I know full well that he took as much or more flak as Geko has. One overcommunicated, the other undercommunicates, but both have been demonized for things they said or didn't say.
Well considering I was the only one mentioning Dstahl in here, I'm wondering if you're talking about me, but since I didn't exactly "shared fond recollections" I'm asking myself where that actually happened ...
If you manage to show me the same amount of flak Taco is getting, if he decides to post in here, you might be onto something ...
Sorry I'd expect more from a Forum Mod, than generalize & demonize "some" people just to dismiss their concerns ...
I'm suggesting that people who expect a Dev to post here on a regular basis, including personal posts, who are the same people currently sharpening their pitchforks for that same Dev, might be having some cognitive disassociation issues.
Unless I'm missing something here, you didn't have to do much Moderation in here & the Thread is still up & running ... so we might have different definitions about "pitchforking" ... seriously who are "those" people ?
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Mark, to be clear. I don't see you as a hater or a "CDFer". I see you along with some like Iconians as a "balancer". Rjcfoxtrot and Borticus (when he was a podcaster) and Havraha (when he was on point) have been similar voices in the community at times. You guys tend to go for what I see as a structured balanced perspective. For the sake of community and dialogue, that is a great thing. However, I also think you guys stake out middle ground almost deliberately, which can be problematic. Sometimes, I think, the middle can be less reasonable as a position than either extreme and I guess I'd caution you guys about the perils of an intractable middle position.
Depends on what the topic is, really. Some things I do take more of a middle position on, but some things I will blatantly disagree or agree with 100%.
One of the bigger things is the rate of XP gain from 50-60 and then spec points post-60. Without a doubt I'm displeased with that entirely, and there's really no middle ground I see myself taking there.
I've been pretty vocal on how I disapprove of double dipping on ships we already own to the tune of $30 each.
On the other hand, there are some things I just plain disagree with the playerbase over. I don't think PvP can or should be 'saved', and I think players are unrealistic with their expectations on the state of PvP.
These are just examples. I don't deliberately try to set myself into taking a middle ground, unless it's something where I feel there's a bigger issue that other players are too short-sighted to see.
I usually take a middle ground when it comes to that sort of thing, not to be deliberately antagonistic about it, but to try to open some eyes and get people to see a larger perspective they may be blind to as a result of anger or unhappiness for a particular symptom.
I see problems, and I see symptoms of problems. I see a lot of anger and hatred focused on symptoms, but I very seldomly see people complain about the actual root of the problem. I think the roots of many problems are either intentionally or unintentionally ignored simply because it seems like too much work to put into it, whereas it's easier (and perhaps lazier) to simply work on the symptoms of a problem.
Players ask for band-aid solutions, but then are surprised to discover the band-aid solution doesn't solve the real problem that requires a lot of time and effort on Cryptic's part.
Cryptic on the other hand, is too willing to give band-aid solutions as a compromise or appeasement, simply because it is more time and labor efficient than digging deep and making fundamental changes to the game itself.
If I take a middle ground, it usually is because I try to bring some clarity to the difference between a problem, and a symptom of a bigger problem. Cryptic focusing on symptoms does not make for a better gameplay experience, and it's important for players to ask for more than that.
It's important players look at root problems and to encourage Cryptic to rise to the challenge of being willing to take the gamble of fixing the root of the problem, instead of superficial symptoms for the sake of temporary reprieve.
If I am extreme on one side or the other on the spectrum of Hater or Fanboy, it almost always 100% revolves around root problems, and not just the symptoms that accompany them.
I'm suggesting that people who expect a Dev to post here on a regular basis, including personal posts, who are the same people currently sharpening their pitchforks for that same Dev, might be having some cognitive disassociation issues.
Are you sure to have properly understood the symptoms of cognitive dissociation?
It's perfectly fine for people with "sharpened pitchforks" to wait for a Dev to post. Maybe just overestimating their own importance and the Devs courage.
EDIT: I was snarky, yes, but in no way did I use ANY foul language. Nothing I said was dishonest, either. If he doesn't like hearing the truth, then as someone who DOES have to deal with customers on occassion, he'll have to quit because there's no longer ANY confidence that he'll do the right thing or say what he means when asking for feedback.
Yes it did. Nicely done. I don't use twatter, mostly because I find it one of the more offensive social media methods.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I don't believe that's the case for a number of people who are prolificate here on the forums, who've gone way past frustrated and angry all the way into castle-storming and pitchforks.
It almost amuses me to see some people sharing fond recollections of Dan Stahl when I know full well that he took as much or more flak as Geko has. One overcommunicated, the other undercommunicates, but both have been demonized for things they said or didn't say.
"Don't it always seem to go. That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone."
There may well come a day when somebody posts about how good we had it when Geko was Lead Designer. That'll be a sad, sad day indeed.
I think apathy is sort of where its at at this point don't you ? I mean the number of "forum fires" seems to be on the decline. I think Cryptic should be worried about the day, the majority of people just couldn't even be bothered to pick up the forks and just leave.
As far as the fond recollections of the Stahl era. I don't think more then a few people have said such things... I also believe I remember reading one that was an attempt at sarcasm that skewed subtle a bit to much. lol
The honest truth is we have no way of really knowing if CG is 100% or 90% or 10% responsible for all the things people claim to hate. Cryptic is a smallish developer and they do work as a team. He has simply been the constant and in his own words has his hand at least partly in everything. So he makes a logical enough scap goat. He also doesn't do himself favors with some of his words. (and yes I think we all understand when people are unhappy they can latch on to just about anything anyone says).
Anyway whats it matter. I neither hate nor love CG. He has been no friend to any of the parts of STO I have liked... he has also had a hand in everything I have come to hate about STO.
He is also the one guy who COULD likely turn it around... as I do believe he has the experience to fight for change in direction before its too late. I hope he believes what he typed over on rededit. No one here WANTS to hate him... I do love the CORE STO which I know he was a part of. IMO though all that good ground work they laid down 5-7 years ago... has been watered on by the big money grubbing chow chow.
If he wants to get players on his side... it wouldn't even be that hard. He simply needs to fight for a massive reduction in grind. Looking at what there planning to do with a ton of Time Gated / D gated spec tree tie ins with Ship sales and game grinds. It would be in there best interest to double if not triple current XP earn rates... and perhaps 20% more D earn rates as well. Even with that increase there isn't likely to be 1-2 months where players feel like there toon has little to do before the next Spec tree / Ship / Specialized boff set hits. A minor change like that and some attention to some of the forgotten aspects of the game like exploration and PVP... and with in 6 months people could be singing his praises instead of throwing bile in his direction.
Twitter can be, yes. If I'm right, though, he'll either block me and/or talk down to me.
If takes either of those actions he'll be a pincushion within days from forumites getting annoyed (again!). It's kinda funny how so many middle and upper management types can get so fixated on the short term that they end up incurring massive long term issues as a result.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Oh boy...somehow I don't think that tweet is going to inspire constructive discussion. Yes there are problems but that was just the kind of thing I was talking about when I was referring to things that make an entrenched position and attitude worse instead of better.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
If takes either of those actions he'll be a pincushion within days from forumites getting annoyed (again!). It's kinda funny how so many middle and upper management types can get so fixated on the short term that they end up incurring massive long term issues as a result.
Oh, I fully intend to post the results regardless. If he's open to a polite discussion, then he will have one. If he's butthurt and blocks or insults, it will only cement my thought that he needs to go, and I will state such.
[REDACTED] Exploit Action Update | 01.13.2015, 09:56 AM
Hey folks,
Lets talk a bit about the [REDACTED] exploit. There are two stages to the process of removing an exploit and handling actions for players who participated. Stage 1 fix the issue and ensure players can no longer partake in the exploit. That change is out as of today in patch [REDACTED].
Stage 2 With the exploit removed, we can work towards finalizing our data review and assigning appropriate actions. We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering. We are still reviewing the data and determining the appropriate action for those who took undue advantage of the exploit. We wont be taking action today, but well wrap it up in the next week or so.
On the plus side, most players didn't partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did. It may seem silly to thank you for not using an exploit, but we really appreciate you taking the time to raise our awareness of the issue through a variety of channels. It demonstrates your commitment to the game and to keeping the game fun, and fair for everyone. So thank you for not using the exploit.
-[REDACTED]
I redacted the exploit name and the dev's name but this is from another mmo that some may recognize. This is how you communicate to the community on problems. Granted this game's (not STO) customer support is marginally better than STO's but at least the few times I have interacted with them and the Dev's they've always take care of my concerns and never treated me like I was just a number or paycheck to them.
I think there is a lesson here that some both in the game community and the game's HQ could learn from, but then again we don't really live in a perfect world, no pun intended.
Oh boy...somehow I don't think that tweet is going to inspire constructive discussion. Yes there are problems but that was just the kind of thing I was talking about when I was referring to things that make an entrenched position and attitude worse instead of better.
The truth hurts. I wasn't being disrespectful, rather, I was direct and 100% honest. If he doesn't like it, then that's HIS problem.
I think for a lot of people a defensive reaction would be instinct from that kind of tweet rather than jumping into the fire. That's just human instinct, not even specific to this situation.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I think for a lot of people a defensive reaction would be instinct from that kind of tweet rather than jumping into the fire. That's just human instinct, not even specific to this situation.
Ultimately, nothing gets accomplished when two people shout past each other. We risk showing that that's all that is ever possible. More of the message lies in *how* we present it, than what is said. That does not mean compromising the integrity of the truth, just stripping out the animus so the substance can show unhindered.
Well...I better go, because it looks like I am on my way to less than 6 hours of sleep again.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Ultimately, nothing gets accomplished when two people shout past each other. We risk showing that that's all that is ever possible. More of the message lies in *how* we present it, than what is said. That does not mean compromising the integrity of the truth, just stripping out the animus so the substance can show unhindered.
Well...I better go, because it looks like I am on my way to less than 6 hours of sleep again.
140 characters is quite limiting.
That said, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Good night, good sir!
I'm going to have to disagree with that. Feedback can be legitimate but still not really mean much of anything nor require any action take place.
Tom buys a new car. Jerry tells him that he preferred the old car, that he should sell the new car, and try to buy the old car back. Tom decides to keep the new car.
Jerry's feedback is legitimate. Jerry really does feel that way. But just because Jerry feels that way does not mean that Tom should do what Jerry says.
Spike is thinking about buying a new car. He wants his friends Tom and Jerry to come along to share their thoughts on the matter. Spike finds a model of car that he likes and asks his friends what they think. Tom says Spike should get it in gray. Jerry says Spike should get it in brown.
Both Tom and Jerry have offered legitimate feedback on what Spike is planning to do, but what each has said is in conflict. If Spike takes either of their feedback into account, he has not ignored feedback.
Just because they receive feedback from somebody does not mean they need to act on that feedback. Just because somebody offers feedback does not mean nobody else has offered feedback that might be different.
So nah, personally I don't think it needed to be said. It looked more like a tantrum than anything else, and well that kind of stuff ticks me off. There are just so many things one could talk about that Cryptic has potentially screwed up...one could really rip into them with it...but it makes it harder to get that stuff across when it gets lost amidst "you didn't listen to me and you suck!" kind of comments. Folks need to realize the world doesn't revolve around their pinkies...but that's just my opinion, which with 25¢ would require a time machine to buy a newspaper in this day and age.
edit: We could have 500 folks all posting in a thread agreeing on something...but uh, I can hop over to the DPS League Table to see that there are 1750 people ahead of me and almost 7500 people below me. Then take into account the percentage of folks that would actually show up on the table compared to those playing. That 500 doesn't mean as much anymore, eh?
Conflating valid criticism with 'fanboy forum frenzy' is not productive.
Paying customers, especially those who dropped a significant amount sight unseen for the Delta Operations Pack, are not going to speak kindly about the last seven weeks.
Cryptic is sitting on one of the largest troves of science fiction content in television history. It's well known. It's back in vogue. The IP has been very profitable for CBS - the most it's been in 10 years.
Heck, it's even culturally relevant.
Yet instead of engaging it's fan base, and creatively monetizing it resources and expanding it's customer base, they take the easy route out.
Want to sell ships? Change the mechanics so players feel they have to rebuy.
Want to generate sales? Create the impression that existing players they're no longer elite, and must regrind everything.
Want to keep people playing longer hours? Push the goalposts beyond the reach of the casual player. You'll reduce the deadwood, while encouraging the addicted to pay more.
Wait - I know - Give player the ability to raise their DPS to 5-10x* what was possible 2 years ago. Kill more in less time? No, increase the hitpoints so high it takes 30 minutes to do a patrol.
There is a limit to how far they can push it. This kind of effort is killing other MMO's.
We want STO to survive.Get creative. We'll wait, 'cause we love Star Trek, and we're suckers for punishment.
I'm going to have to disagree with that. Feedback can be legitimate but still not really mean much of anything nor require any action take place.
Tom buys a new car. Jerry tells him that he preferred the old car, that he should sell the new car, and try to buy the old car back. Tom decides to keep the new car.
Jerry's feedback is legitimate. Jerry really does feel that way. But just because Jerry feels that way does not mean that Tom should do what Jerry says.
Spike is thinking about buying a new car. He wants his friends Tom and Jerry to come along to share their thoughts on the matter. Spike finds a model of car that he likes and asks his friends what they think. Tom says Spike should get it in gray. Jerry says Spike should get it in brown.
Both Tom and Jerry have offered legitimate feedback on what Spike is planning to do, but what each has said is in conflict. If Spike takes either of their feedback into account, he has not ignored feedback.
Just because they receive feedback from somebody does not mean they need to act on that feedback. Just because somebody offers feedback does not mean nobody else has offered feedback that might be different.
So nah, personally I don't think it needed to be said. It looked more like a tantrum than anything else, and well that kind of stuff ticks me off. There are just so many things one could talk about that Cryptic has potentially screwed up...one could really rip into them with it...but it makes it harder to get that stuff across when it gets lost amidst "you didn't listen to me and you suck!" kind of comments. Folks need to realize the world doesn't revolve around their pinkies...but that's just my opinion, which with 25¢ would require a time machine to buy a newspaper in this day and age.
Burn that strawman and engage that ad hominem!
There was VIABLE feedback that could have knocked the bugs out before the stuff went into production. Instead, Geko chose to dismiss it ALL *in addition to* the flames and call EVERYONE "whiny idiots".
I'm sorry you wasted valuable time to post something so asinine. Also, stop trying to defend the indefensible.
EDIT: Your logic needs a LOT more work. Your edit was just as ludicrous as the rest of your insulting word salad of fanboy-ism.
Am I sad to see Tacofangs be sad about the sigs? Yes. I can clearly see the love in his work, and I feel guilty, to a degree, that we, as a forum, had something to do with his pain. But I also feel sad because, well, he's taking it so personally. While I get that, part of me also kinda hoped he, or Geko, for that matter, might, at some point, also wonder whether maybe, I dunno, the players have a point, you know?! And not just stay stuck in thinking people are just toxic meanies.
"Damned if they do, damned if they don't!" A bit too easy, if you ask me. That way, no one ever has to take responsibilty for anything. Geko has monetized the game, tenfold so with the advent of DR, and alienated many players in the process. And he, de facto, killed alts (other than for simple doffing). You wanna talk about pain?! I still feel hurt about that, to date! I was so proud of my new Rom alt I finally rolled, and had fully decked out, and was enjoying immensely being OP with!
On the matter of banners, I still maintain, today more so than ever, that they are a very good communal way to convey a single message. Like people all picketing with the same "Je suis Charlie" banners. Imagine how silly they'd have looked carrying those, all with 'specific grievances' on them!? The 'DR Is The Best Expansion ever!' meme was a powerful, focussed protest (amplified by its singular message); and, apparently, it came thru loud and clear, after all.
And then there was Captain Smirk, who today I caught saying "I hopped in the game, and tested out ALL the queues myself, and they popped very quickly for me. So, we have reports saying it would be an hour before certain queues would pop, and I got in and they popped in less than 30 seconds." And I know Taco is Cryptic, and Smirk is PWE. But if the former is serious about wanting us to voice specific issues, then maybe the latter needs to find a way to respond in a manner that construes a little more with reality as perceived by the rest of the playerbase. I don't see this working any other way.
However it does put a counter-point to the gushing sycophant(s) who also replied to the original Geko tweet.
Personally I would have worded it differently, but there needs to be a way to get across that while he has his opinion, as a representative (and a high ranking one at that) of Cryptic, his actions are quite often inappropriate and his attempts to deflect criticism onto his co-workers is pretty poor form.
As he states, HE is the Lead Designer. HE is responsible 100% for the state of the games content and systems currently. HE needs to accept that and then work to fix the situation where he feels intimidated to post on his game's forum's due to a feared backlash "from a vocal minority".
There will be haters, there will be White Knighter's. Both are guaranteed. However in the middle there are varying levels of decent and well thought out critique of the games systems and the way's they could be improved. There's more than one or two IT specialists and Game developers in the customer base who can see through the BS put out by Geko and D'Angelo on a regular basis (whether directly or indirectly they are both responsible for the PR).
If they refuse to listen to the reasoned critique's (of which there are hundreds of threads) and sweep them away as irrelevant, then what are we to think when we consider opening wallets for the game? Did they listen? Nope, well why should I give them money...
The second issue is one of service. The Customer Service from GM's and Support is literally non-existent. Often dismissive or down right rude. I've never encountered worse customer service with the exception of the ingrained primary Telephone Carriers like British Telecom or Telstra, both of whom have gotten better since the release of STO, unlike STO's customer service...
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
However it does put a counter-point to the gushing sycophant(s) who also replied to the original Geko tweet.
Personally I would have worded it differently, but there needs to be a way to get across that while he has his opinion, as a representative (and a high ranking one at that) of Cryptic, his actions are quite often inappropriate and his attempts to deflect criticism onto his co-workers is pretty poor form.
As he states, HE is the Lead Designer. HE is responsible 100% for the state of the games content and systems currently. HE needs to accept that and then work to fix the situation where he feels intimidated to post on his game's forum's due to a feared backlash "from a vocal minority".
There will be haters, there will be White Knighter's. Both are guaranteed. However in the middle there are varying levels of decent and well thought out critique of the games systems and the way's they could be improved. There's more than one or two IT specialists and Game developers in the customer base who can see through the BS put out by Geko and D'Angelo on a regular basis (whether directly or indirectly they are both responsible for the PR).
If they refuse to listen to the reasoned critique's (of which there are hundreds of threads) and sweep them away as irrelevant, then what are we to think when we consider opening wallets for the game? Did they listen? Nope, well why should I give them money...
The second issue is one of service. The Customer Service from GM's and Support is literally non-existent. Often dismissive or down right rude. I've never encountered worse customer service with the exception of the ingrained primary Telephone Carriers like British Telecom or Telstra, both of whom have gotten better since the release of STO, unlike STO's customer service...
Thank you for your thoughts. I perhaps could have worded that better, but sometimes, only a gut-check-level dose of reality ever gets through, unfortunately. I think Geko was looking only for sycophancy, and didn't want to address HIS bad behavior in all of this. I'm all about forgiveness, but I'm not inclined to do so for a person who continuously insults my intelligence or integrity and so easily dismisses my desire to help.
There was VIABLE feedback that could have knocked the bugs out before the stuff went into production. Instead, Geko chose to dismiss it ALL *in addition to* the flames and call EVERYONE "whiny idiots".
I'm sorry you wasted valuable time to post something so asinine. Also, stop trying to defend the indefensible.
EDIT: Your logic needs a LOT more work. Your edit was just as ludicrous as the rest of your insulting word salad of fanboy-ism.
There are just so many things one could talk about that Cryptic has potentially screwed up...one could really rip into them with it...
...you accuse me of being a fanboy.
/facepalm
I can't speak for anybody else, but I've got plenty of stuff that I'd like to complain about without ending up lumped in to some group that does things like that.
How is it possible for one not to picture you there just blubbering away and having a tantrum?
U mad, bro?
EDIT: You word salad was logically specious, *at best*, and instead of being constructive, you came right out of the gate insulting me. Your analogy was poor, at best. As you can see, others have disagreed with me and were VERY polite about it. Don't insult me and expect me to be kind in return, bruh. It's not how I roll.
It seems YOU don't like the truth, either, which is what I told Geko.
Your tweet was accusatory, confrontational and despite what you think, it did not invite debate or discussion, it threatened and demanded it.
I don't agree with half the decisions recently.
Mostly I feel that my favorite game has been ruined by Geko and his decisions, mainly because of his position as LEAD Developer. It all goes through him, so to me, he IS the one to "blame". I'd love to see him engage the player base in a discussion. Maybe a Reddit AMA or a "town hall" type scenario moderated by one of the podcasters he trusts.
But your tweet was really poorly worded, and in no way indicates someone willing to discuss things in a rational manner.
I hope he realizes that it doesn't represent the way all, or even most of us think or act.
If I received a tweet like that, I'd block the sender. Not surprised if he does too.
Nor would I blame him.
And you continue to show your maturity by resorting to calling those who disagree with your methods "fanboys" who can't handle your epic truths. And statements like "U mad bro?" really reinforce that mature attitude you would bring to any "discussion".
I am interested to read this. I found the thread interesting, though the tone had much negative going on.
I hope to read more in the forums. I do not use the reddits or Soc M regularly because of negative people and trolls.
I hope to see fewer negative people and trolls here in the game forums. You are all interesting people, and ..
A few days ago Geko posted a rather long post about the game, and his position as Lead Designer. As long as some discussion about the Excelsior (don't ask).
Unfortunately, it was on REDDIT, and not on the forum.
Since it might be interesting for everyone, I'm quoting the entire post, and providing the link to the Reddit post. As for the context, someone saw a Captain Gecko ingame, and was wondering if it was him.
Am I the only one who think it's a bit sad to have the Lead Designer posting on a non official forum instead of the official forum ? Someone had a quite similar question, and I don't think he was ever officially answered (topic closed), where he said a friend of his was banned 3 days for having "Geko" as a name, not knowing why he was banned (it seems geko is a word in some Slavic country or something).
Anyway, I hope you'll stay civil, I thought this was worth reading for any STO player.
Your tweet was accusatory, confrontational and despite what you think, it did not invite debate or discussion, it threatened and demanded it.
I don't agree with half the decisions recently.
Mostly I feel that my favorite game has been ruined by Geko and his decisions, mainly because of his position as LEAD Developer. It all goes through him, so to me, he IS the one to "blame". I'd love to see him engage the player base in a discussion. Maybe a Reddit AMA or a "town hall" type scenario moderated by one of the podcasters he trusts.
But your tweet was really poorly worded, and in no way indicates someone willing to discuss things in a rational manner.
I hope he realizes that it doesn't represent the way all, or even most of us think or act.
If I received a tweet like that, I'd block the sender. Not surprised if he does too.
Nor would I blame him.
- Hippie
Actually, I am expecting him to do so, given his pattern of showing how thin-skinned he is. I was very forthright in saying I would be pleasantly surprised if he chose to diffuse the situation that he himself helped create. I keep saying that the truth hurts, and it seems he loves to run from it at ever twist and turn. I have never denied my tweet was snarky, but you can't say that I was being untruthful or not being direct.
(Are you going to stop insulting your customer base and dismissing LEGITIMATE criticism?)
Again, accusatory, confrontational language.
Where is the invitation to a rational debate or discussion that you claim this is ?
I sure as heck don't see it.
If that 2nd line is supposed to be "an invitation" it's one of the most darned unfriendly ones I've ever seen.
Why would anyone want to have a discussion with someone whose entire "invitation" is an attack, an accusation and seems to be spoiling for a
confrontation over things ?
I fear your "truth" will have the opposite effect to what you want.
Unless what you wanted was to give Geko even more reasons to avoid his players.
Comments
I don't think I've ever seen anyone inferring that TF is posting here for fun only. Sure, he throws a few jabs back here and there, now and again, but he does try to communicate with the player base here on the forums. Do I wish there was more communication? Of course I do, but some is far better than none.
Geko has had ample opportunities to make comments in a spirit of communication. Even if he were to lock his post so there could be no responses he could ignore the inherent flame war that would erupt herein, but no one could say he was afraid to communicate. Granted, it would be a one-side dialogue, but depending on the info presented it doesn't ned to be an endless tete a tete. However. he has chosen to hide and remain silent here on the forums. Why? Because he is afraid of receiving negative commentary and feedback? Welcome to the real world. People are are jerks. It can't be avoided.
People will attack every post, whether it is from Geko, Taco, BlueGeek or your average player. That is the nature of the forums - as it should be: a place to share opinions and engage in debate. Opinions are just that - an opinion, neither right nor wrong and entirely open to scrutiny. Information is just that - info. It can be debated and shared and it can be correct or incorrect. In fact, more times than not it not only encourages but requires debate.
If I have said it once I have said it a million times: we know not every issue can be magically fixed and we don't expect them to be. We do, however, expect to be reassured these issues have been reported, received and are being reviewed, even if on a locked, once-a-month dev post listing the top 10 most reported bugs. As the months progress and that list changes or becomes shorter, we, the players, can see that issues are in fact being addressed. Cryptic is a service provider in the entertainment industry and we are the consumers. Unhappy consumers usually means less product usage, increased negative word of mouth and the risk of a financial hit all things to be avoided.
All which CAN be avoided with some basic communication. Its pretty basic business sense. You cant make your clients happy all of the time but you can (and should) make them feel that their voices are indeed being heard and taken seriously. Even the tinfoil hat complaints need to be assured that, although there is no evidence of their complaint, the message has been heard and will be monitored.
Yup. Can't say I'm having much sympathy for Geko. Trying to level my alt now. And guess what?! I'm running into endless passive-aggressive walls, put in there by Geko. shortly after the release of DR, to slow me down on purpose. For one, leveling takes much longer now. But you can't do Argala until you're lv 54. Cute, eh? All these mechanism in place, just to deliberately frustrate players, what's the point!? Oh yeah, monetization, that was the point! Knowing full well people would hate it. But he did it anyway. So, Mr. Geko, you made your bed, now lie in it.
Well considering I was the only one mentioning Dstahl in here, I'm wondering if you're talking about me, but since I didn't exactly "shared fond recollections" I'm asking myself where that actually happened ...
If you manage to show me the same amount of flak Taco is getting, if he decides to post in here, you might be onto something ...
Sorry I'd expect more from a Forum Mod, than generalize & demonize "some" people just to dismiss their concerns ...
Unless I'm missing something here, you didn't have to do much Moderation in here & the Thread is still up & running ... so we might have different definitions about "pitchforking" ... seriously who are "those" people ?
Depends on what the topic is, really. Some things I do take more of a middle position on, but some things I will blatantly disagree or agree with 100%.
One of the bigger things is the rate of XP gain from 50-60 and then spec points post-60. Without a doubt I'm displeased with that entirely, and there's really no middle ground I see myself taking there.
I've been pretty vocal on how I disapprove of double dipping on ships we already own to the tune of $30 each.
On the other hand, there are some things I just plain disagree with the playerbase over. I don't think PvP can or should be 'saved', and I think players are unrealistic with their expectations on the state of PvP.
These are just examples. I don't deliberately try to set myself into taking a middle ground, unless it's something where I feel there's a bigger issue that other players are too short-sighted to see.
I usually take a middle ground when it comes to that sort of thing, not to be deliberately antagonistic about it, but to try to open some eyes and get people to see a larger perspective they may be blind to as a result of anger or unhappiness for a particular symptom.
I see problems, and I see symptoms of problems. I see a lot of anger and hatred focused on symptoms, but I very seldomly see people complain about the actual root of the problem. I think the roots of many problems are either intentionally or unintentionally ignored simply because it seems like too much work to put into it, whereas it's easier (and perhaps lazier) to simply work on the symptoms of a problem.
Players ask for band-aid solutions, but then are surprised to discover the band-aid solution doesn't solve the real problem that requires a lot of time and effort on Cryptic's part.
Cryptic on the other hand, is too willing to give band-aid solutions as a compromise or appeasement, simply because it is more time and labor efficient than digging deep and making fundamental changes to the game itself.
If I take a middle ground, it usually is because I try to bring some clarity to the difference between a problem, and a symptom of a bigger problem. Cryptic focusing on symptoms does not make for a better gameplay experience, and it's important for players to ask for more than that.
It's important players look at root problems and to encourage Cryptic to rise to the challenge of being willing to take the gamble of fixing the root of the problem, instead of superficial symptoms for the sake of temporary reprieve.
If I am extreme on one side or the other on the spectrum of Hater or Fanboy, it almost always 100% revolves around root problems, and not just the symptoms that accompany them.
Are you sure to have properly understood the symptoms of cognitive dissociation?
It's perfectly fine for people with "sharpened pitchforks" to wait for a Dev to post. Maybe just overestimating their own importance and the Devs courage.
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It needed to be said.
EDIT: I was snarky, yes, but in no way did I use ANY foul language. Nothing I said was dishonest, either. If he doesn't like hearing the truth, then as someone who DOES have to deal with customers on occassion, he'll have to quit because there's no longer ANY confidence that he'll do the right thing or say what he means when asking for feedback.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Thank you.
Twitter can be, yes. If I'm right, though, he'll either block me and/or talk down to me.
I think apathy is sort of where its at at this point don't you ? I mean the number of "forum fires" seems to be on the decline. I think Cryptic should be worried about the day, the majority of people just couldn't even be bothered to pick up the forks and just leave.
As far as the fond recollections of the Stahl era. I don't think more then a few people have said such things... I also believe I remember reading one that was an attempt at sarcasm that skewed subtle a bit to much.
The honest truth is we have no way of really knowing if CG is 100% or 90% or 10% responsible for all the things people claim to hate. Cryptic is a smallish developer and they do work as a team. He has simply been the constant and in his own words has his hand at least partly in everything. So he makes a logical enough scap goat. He also doesn't do himself favors with some of his words. (and yes I think we all understand when people are unhappy they can latch on to just about anything anyone says).
Anyway whats it matter. I neither hate nor love CG. He has been no friend to any of the parts of STO I have liked... he has also had a hand in everything I have come to hate about STO.
He is also the one guy who COULD likely turn it around... as I do believe he has the experience to fight for change in direction before its too late. I hope he believes what he typed over on rededit. No one here WANTS to hate him... I do love the CORE STO which I know he was a part of. IMO though all that good ground work they laid down 5-7 years ago... has been watered on by the big money grubbing chow chow.
If he wants to get players on his side... it wouldn't even be that hard. He simply needs to fight for a massive reduction in grind. Looking at what there planning to do with a ton of Time Gated / D gated spec tree tie ins with Ship sales and game grinds. It would be in there best interest to double if not triple current XP earn rates... and perhaps 20% more D earn rates as well. Even with that increase there isn't likely to be 1-2 months where players feel like there toon has little to do before the next Spec tree / Ship / Specialized boff set hits. A minor change like that and some attention to some of the forgotten aspects of the game like exploration and PVP... and with in 6 months people could be singing his praises instead of throwing bile in his direction.
If takes either of those actions he'll be a pincushion within days from forumites getting annoyed (again!). It's kinda funny how so many middle and upper management types can get so fixated on the short term that they end up incurring massive long term issues as a result.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
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Oh, I fully intend to post the results regardless. If he's open to a polite discussion, then he will have one. If he's butthurt and blocks or insults, it will only cement my thought that he needs to go, and I will state such.
Hey folks,
Lets talk a bit about the [REDACTED] exploit. There are two stages to the process of removing an exploit and handling actions for players who participated. Stage 1 fix the issue and ensure players can no longer partake in the exploit. That change is out as of today in patch [REDACTED].
Stage 2 With the exploit removed, we can work towards finalizing our data review and assigning appropriate actions. We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering. We are still reviewing the data and determining the appropriate action for those who took undue advantage of the exploit. We wont be taking action today, but well wrap it up in the next week or so.
On the plus side, most players didn't partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did. It may seem silly to thank you for not using an exploit, but we really appreciate you taking the time to raise our awareness of the issue through a variety of channels. It demonstrates your commitment to the game and to keeping the game fun, and fair for everyone. So thank you for not using the exploit.
-[REDACTED]
I redacted the exploit name and the dev's name but this is from another mmo that some may recognize. This is how you communicate to the community on problems. Granted this game's (not STO) customer support is marginally better than STO's but at least the few times I have interacted with them and the Dev's they've always take care of my concerns and never treated me like I was just a number or paycheck to them.
I think there is a lesson here that some both in the game community and the game's HQ could learn from, but then again we don't really live in a perfect world, no pun intended.
The truth hurts. I wasn't being disrespectful, rather, I was direct and 100% honest. If he doesn't like it, then that's HIS problem.
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Perhaps, however, I repeat: It needed to be said.
Well...I better go, because it looks like I am on my way to less than 6 hours of sleep again.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
140 characters is quite limiting.
That said, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Good night, good sir!
I'm going to have to disagree with that. Feedback can be legitimate but still not really mean much of anything nor require any action take place.
Tom buys a new car. Jerry tells him that he preferred the old car, that he should sell the new car, and try to buy the old car back. Tom decides to keep the new car.
Jerry's feedback is legitimate. Jerry really does feel that way. But just because Jerry feels that way does not mean that Tom should do what Jerry says.
Spike is thinking about buying a new car. He wants his friends Tom and Jerry to come along to share their thoughts on the matter. Spike finds a model of car that he likes and asks his friends what they think. Tom says Spike should get it in gray. Jerry says Spike should get it in brown.
Both Tom and Jerry have offered legitimate feedback on what Spike is planning to do, but what each has said is in conflict. If Spike takes either of their feedback into account, he has not ignored feedback.
Just because they receive feedback from somebody does not mean they need to act on that feedback. Just because somebody offers feedback does not mean nobody else has offered feedback that might be different.
So nah, personally I don't think it needed to be said. It looked more like a tantrum than anything else, and well that kind of stuff ticks me off. There are just so many things one could talk about that Cryptic has potentially screwed up...one could really rip into them with it...but it makes it harder to get that stuff across when it gets lost amidst "you didn't listen to me and you suck!" kind of comments. Folks need to realize the world doesn't revolve around their pinkies...but that's just my opinion, which with 25¢ would require a time machine to buy a newspaper in this day and age.
edit: We could have 500 folks all posting in a thread agreeing on something...but uh, I can hop over to the DPS League Table to see that there are 1750 people ahead of me and almost 7500 people below me. Then take into account the percentage of folks that would actually show up on the table compared to those playing. That 500 doesn't mean as much anymore, eh?
Paying customers, especially those who dropped a significant amount sight unseen for the Delta Operations Pack, are not going to speak kindly about the last seven weeks.
Cryptic is sitting on one of the largest troves of science fiction content in television history. It's well known. It's back in vogue. The IP has been very profitable for CBS - the most it's been in 10 years.
Heck, it's even culturally relevant.
Yet instead of engaging it's fan base, and creatively monetizing it resources and expanding it's customer base, they take the easy route out.
Want to sell ships? Change the mechanics so players feel they have to rebuy.
Want to generate sales? Create the impression that existing players they're no longer elite, and must regrind everything.
Want to keep people playing longer hours? Push the goalposts beyond the reach of the casual player. You'll reduce the deadwood, while encouraging the addicted to pay more.
Wait - I know - Give player the ability to raise their DPS to 5-10x* what was possible 2 years ago. Kill more in less time? No, increase the hitpoints so high it takes 30 minutes to do a patrol.
There is a limit to how far they can push it. This kind of effort is killing other MMO's.
We want STO to survive. Get creative. We'll wait, 'cause we love Star Trek, and we're suckers for punishment.
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax
Edit: *Yeah, even higher.
Burn that strawman and engage that ad hominem!
There was VIABLE feedback that could have knocked the bugs out before the stuff went into production. Instead, Geko chose to dismiss it ALL *in addition to* the flames and call EVERYONE "whiny idiots".
I'm sorry you wasted valuable time to post something so asinine. Also, stop trying to defend the indefensible.
EDIT: Your logic needs a LOT more work. Your edit was just as ludicrous as the rest of your insulting word salad of fanboy-ism.
"Damned if they do, damned if they don't!" A bit too easy, if you ask me. That way, no one ever has to take responsibilty for anything. Geko has monetized the game, tenfold so with the advent of DR, and alienated many players in the process. And he, de facto, killed alts (other than for simple doffing). You wanna talk about pain?! I still feel hurt about that, to date! I was so proud of my new Rom alt I finally rolled, and had fully decked out, and was enjoying immensely being OP with!
On the matter of banners, I still maintain, today more so than ever, that they are a very good communal way to convey a single message. Like people all picketing with the same "Je suis Charlie" banners. Imagine how silly they'd have looked carrying those, all with 'specific grievances' on them!? The 'DR Is The Best Expansion ever!' meme was a powerful, focussed protest (amplified by its singular message); and, apparently, it came thru loud and clear, after all.
And then there was Captain Smirk, who today I caught saying "I hopped in the game, and tested out ALL the queues myself, and they popped very quickly for me. So, we have reports saying it would be an hour before certain queues would pop, and I got in and they popped in less than 30 seconds." And I know Taco is Cryptic, and Smirk is PWE. But if the former is serious about wanting us to voice specific issues, then maybe the latter needs to find a way to respond in a manner that construes a little more with reality as perceived by the rest of the playerbase. I don't see this working any other way.
Personally I would have worded it differently, but there needs to be a way to get across that while he has his opinion, as a representative (and a high ranking one at that) of Cryptic, his actions are quite often inappropriate and his attempts to deflect criticism onto his co-workers is pretty poor form.
As he states, HE is the Lead Designer. HE is responsible 100% for the state of the games content and systems currently. HE needs to accept that and then work to fix the situation where he feels intimidated to post on his game's forum's due to a feared backlash "from a vocal minority".
There will be haters, there will be White Knighter's. Both are guaranteed. However in the middle there are varying levels of decent and well thought out critique of the games systems and the way's they could be improved. There's more than one or two IT specialists and Game developers in the customer base who can see through the BS put out by Geko and D'Angelo on a regular basis (whether directly or indirectly they are both responsible for the PR).
If they refuse to listen to the reasoned critique's (of which there are hundreds of threads) and sweep them away as irrelevant, then what are we to think when we consider opening wallets for the game? Did they listen? Nope, well why should I give them money...
The second issue is one of service. The Customer Service from GM's and Support is literally non-existent. Often dismissive or down right rude. I've never encountered worse customer service with the exception of the ingrained primary Telephone Carriers like British Telecom or Telstra, both of whom have gotten better since the release of STO, unlike STO's customer service...
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Thank you for your thoughts. I perhaps could have worded that better, but sometimes, only a gut-check-level dose of reality ever gets through, unfortunately. I think Geko was looking only for sycophancy, and didn't want to address HIS bad behavior in all of this. I'm all about forgiveness, but I'm not inclined to do so for a person who continuously insults my intelligence or integrity and so easily dismisses my desire to help.
See, this is kind of what I was talking about.
In a post where I said the following...
...you accuse me of being a fanboy.
/facepalm
I can't speak for anybody else, but I've got plenty of stuff that I'd like to complain about without ending up lumped in to some group that does things like that.
U mad, bro?
EDIT: You word salad was logically specious, *at best*, and instead of being constructive, you came right out of the gate insulting me. Your analogy was poor, at best. As you can see, others have disagreed with me and were VERY polite about it. Don't insult me and expect me to be kind in return, bruh. It's not how I roll.
It seems YOU don't like the truth, either, which is what I told Geko.
Yes.
You could have.
Your tweet was accusatory, confrontational and despite what you think, it did not invite debate or discussion, it threatened and demanded it.
I don't agree with half the decisions recently.
Mostly I feel that my favorite game has been ruined by Geko and his decisions, mainly because of his position as LEAD Developer. It all goes through him, so to me, he IS the one to "blame". I'd love to see him engage the player base in a discussion. Maybe a Reddit AMA or a "town hall" type scenario moderated by one of the podcasters he trusts.
But your tweet was really poorly worded, and in no way indicates someone willing to discuss things in a rational manner.
I hope he realizes that it doesn't represent the way all, or even most of us think or act.
If I received a tweet like that, I'd block the sender. Not surprised if he does too.
Nor would I blame him.
And you continue to show your maturity by resorting to calling those who disagree with your methods "fanboys" who can't handle your epic truths. And statements like "U mad bro?" really reinforce that mature attitude you would bring to any "discussion".
- Hippie
I hope to read more in the forums. I do not use the reddits or Soc M regularly because of negative people and trolls.
I hope to see fewer negative people and trolls here in the game forums. You are all interesting people, and ..
Q. Loves all the little creatures... Even you!
Actually, I am expecting him to do so, given his pattern of showing how thin-skinned he is. I was very forthright in saying I would be pleasantly surprised if he chose to diffuse the situation that he himself helped create. I keep saying that the truth hurts, and it seems he loves to run from it at ever twist and turn. I have never denied my tweet was snarky, but you can't say that I was being untruthful or not being direct.
Sorry, but you went beyond "snarky".
Break down your tweet.
(Quite frankly, you've earned the ire.)
Immediately confrontational, and accusatory.
(Are you going to stop insulting your customer base and dismissing LEGITIMATE criticism?)
Again, accusatory, confrontational language.
Where is the invitation to a rational debate or discussion that you claim this is ?
I sure as heck don't see it.
If that 2nd line is supposed to be "an invitation" it's one of the most darned unfriendly ones I've ever seen.
Why would anyone want to have a discussion with someone whose entire "invitation" is an attack, an accusation and seems to be spoiling for a
confrontation over things ?
I fear your "truth" will have the opposite effect to what you want.
Unless what you wanted was to give Geko even more reasons to avoid his players.
- Hippie