Cryptic has always catered to/milked/nickel and dimed the people that spend money. If PvP was as popular as you've deluded yourself to believe, then PvP would have gotten attention years ago instead of being ignored.
The only way the PvP population could represent a larger percentage of the player base is if die hard PvEers theft the game in droves, which may have started to happen with the DR fiasco. :rolleyes:
The sad fact is Cryptics PvP players WHERE the whales in this game. I think they will figure that out at some point. Believe it or not I have talked to plenty of people in this game I am not claiming to know the all the 20k or so players that play STO anymore... I am simply saying 600 people on my friends list and 3x that of people I just never added isn't a small sample of players. Sad for me as it is I spent 12+ hours a day in this game for far to long.
At this point the PvE circles are just catching up. Most of the PvP players have been leaving in frustration for at least a few years now. Its funny to see the same stuff we have been complaining about for 3 years being sighted as the reasons when people post there I'm out threads. lol
When the fleet bases hit... the fleets that hit Tier 5 first... where a handful of Large PvE fleets and 2-3 PvP fleets that had 10-20 people tops in them. Cause the PvP guys are whales... we are its also pretty sad. I have loved my PvP friends to death over the last 5 years, we where all a bunch of whales though. I have been in 3-4 fairly well known PvP fleets the last 5 or so years, none of them where really more then 10-15 core players. At this point they have all left. No doubt that isn't a large number of players at all. Thing is for cryptic if I added up the actual $ each one of those groups have dropped on this game getting the latest ships, and gear, and speeding grind its scary. The current fleet my toons are still sitting in... its not bragging in anyway, but I would guess in the last year the 10 core guys have likely dropped enough to buy a nice mid range Benz or beamer. lol
I have dabbled in a few PvE fleets... I know in my experience they don't drop $ in the same way.
Because almost nobody PVPs and I doubt any of the devs really care to work on that area of the game considering the community there.
Oh I think the rest of you have caught up. The STO community is all toxic now. You can find 2-3 people willing to continue to defend Cryptic, perhaps. I would say GD is now about 95% as nasty as the PvP subsection ever was. Give it another cash grab system revamp and we'll see if that doesn't go up just a bit more yet. lol
Humm.. new MMOs made of full PVP..
PVP games have more than 10 times the player base than STO..
All succesfull MMOs have decent PVP and devs working JUST for the PVP...
But cryptic claims that PVP is not worth it to develop! LOOOL cryptic..
Yes, PVP in STO is a failre beacose NO ONE in the HOLE universe wants to play PVP and not beacose PVP in STO is a disaster since season 3.
You'd think after 4 years and 1001 posts, PvPer's would have gotten the hint by now.
They do get the hint. Then they leave, and a new breed of 'top PvPers' fills the gap that was vacated.
This new breed of dedicated PvPers will be willing to tolerate the changes that the previous breed was not willing to tolerate.
Until they get so tired of being ignored that they leave.
Then what happens?
That's right. The people who don't mind the changes will take their place as the new PvP playerbase.
The cycle will continue on and on with new groups of players being willing to tolerate changes to the game, while other players move to greener pastures.
Oh I think the rest of you have caught up. The STO community is all toxic now. You can find 2-3 people willing to continue to defend Cryptic, perhaps. I would say GD is now about 95% as nasty as the PvP subsection ever was. Give it another cash grab system revamp and we'll see if that doesn't go up just a bit more yet. lol
lol so true you gotta love the irony ........whats the saying that guy is the pot calling the kettle ...well you know ..but dont bother you cant tell (carebears) them anything next to the devs they blame us ( (PvPers)for mucking up the game as well lol do y'all remember those threads ?? i sure do ..but whatever ..they want no balance and just want shots that do over 9000...........wait....oh god im in the movie the edge of tomorrow
They do get the hint. Then they leave, and a new breed of 'top PvPers' fills the gap that was vacated.
This new breed of dedicated PvPers will be willing to tolerate the changes that the previous breed was not willing to tolerate.
Until they get so tired of being ignored that they leave.
Then what happens?
That's right. The people who don't mind the changes will take their place as the new PvP playerbase.
The cycle will continue on and on with new groups of players being willing to tolerate changes to the game, while other players move to greener pastures.
OMG! I AGREE WITH YOU! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! (I am going to the doctor to check my fanboy lvl).
But imagine how many pvprs would be on STO if the PVP on STO would be worth it, well balance and not broken.
That is why I laugh when some ppl justified the low development of PVP beacose "no one plays PVP".
The STO community has always been toxic. Players were getting permanently banned a month after the game launched for posting death threats against the devs families and vandalizing the wiki with death threats.
you guys are awful close to that right now ............im sure one of you will have a mentally ill moment and cross that line ..honestly it like watching a train wreck ...... and not everyone in the community was that toxic... There were others me included... That have always maintained no matter how angry you get in the end this is just a game and the people that develop it are just that people they deserve a modicum of respect and fair treatment no matter what because if you were in the other shoe how would you feel a lot of the problems nowadays is that a lot of people put themselves in the other shoe you know why? Because it's all about them, I mean kinda if you look at it look at some of the answers in this form hey TRIBBLE them there's not enough of them even matter you don't matter, great gone by that theory, on the majority should better hell it's applied in life is see how that works Blacks Hispanics Asians Native Americans........ yeah none of you matter why? Because there just is not enough for you in the majority so therefore you get nothing no one wants to listen to you...go away ... Well all I can say is thank God those people don't give up, despite people telling them they don't matter because is not enough of them
Humm.. new MMOs made of full PVP..
PVP games have more than 10 times the player base than STO..
All succesfull MMOs have decent PVP and devs working JUST for the PVP...
But cryptic claims that PVP is not worth it to develop! LOOOL cryptic..
Yes, PVP in STO is a failre beacose NO ONE in the HOLE universe wants to play PVP and not beacose PVP in STO is a disaster since season 3.
lol cryptic.. PVP is not worth it.. loool.
Just your opinion. LOTRO was a successful MMO, and has no meaningful PvP. SWOTOR is thriving now, and has no meaningful PvP. Warhammer Online had what many considered a good PvP system, but lacking in PvE, and it's gone now. PvP is not a sole determining factor in what makes or breaks an MMO.
And none of those PvP games are based on the Star Trek IP with it's tree hugging, hippy, exploration lovin, we come in peace fan base. Shoot to kill, Shoot to kill, Shoot to kill.
LOL.. like STO.. I still remember those PVE missions:
"Captain in this planet there are important mineral recourses. But the (insert random race name) have send a team to collect them. We can not allow that."
Just your opinion. LOTRO was a successful MMO, and has no meaningful PvP. SWOTOR is thriving now, and has no meaningful PvP. Warhammer Online had what many considered a good PvP system, but lacking in PvE, and it's gone now. PvP is not a sole determining factor in what makes or breaks an MMO.
What the hell are you talking about? The PVP on SWOtor is like a Ferrari againts a Fiat 600 of the PVP on STO. It may not be the main focus, but is not forgoten like on STO.
I said this: "All succesfull MMOs have decent PVP and devs working JUST for the PVP...". I didnt said that all succesfull MMOs are based on PVP. They succed beacose they have the good balance beatuine have a good PVE and at least a DECENT PVP.
I didnt play warhammer online, but I can give a full list of MMOs that are focus on PVP (btw, I am not asking that STO focus on PVP, that would be also a failure) that have more success than STO. And some of them are scify MMOs.. (cof.. cof.. EVE.. cof.. cof..)
OMG! I AGREE WITH YOU! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! (I am going to the doctor to check my fanboy lvl).
But imagine how many pvprs would be on STO if the PVP on STO would be worth it, well balance and not broken.
That is why I laugh when some ppl justified the low development of PVP beacose "no one plays PVP".
I recognize people play PvP. I just don't care as much.
The turnover of PvPers is really just too much for me to really concern myself with the health of STO's PvP scene.
Because it's always the same talking points.
"The STO PvPers bring a lot to the game and Cryptic will regret not listening to us if we all leave!"
Then they do.
"Hey, all those PvPers who were stomping us in the queues are gone now. I guess that makes us the new cream of the crop!"
Then they say the same thing the last ones did. Each new batch of PvPers have this entitlement complex that without that exact batch of PvPers to... I guess PvP in the game that PvP will die.
But it won't die. There'll just be new players ready to replace them who are willing to put up with whatever the flavor of the month is.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
The irony is that a decent PvP returns balance in spades to PvE. PvP is the crucible for playtesting builds and strategies which in turn can lead to much better PvE content IF (and it's a bloody big IF) the dev's use it as the tool it is.
Previously the dev's got the squits with the PvP crowd and D'Angelo had a hissy fit and stopped work on PvP. I dunno if he's worked out that he acted like a 2yr old with his ice cream taken away, but then again the PvP players really got bored of the vacuous claims of the lead dev's stating PvP focus coming soon for 3 years.
This lack of work on PvP has actually shown how bad the lead dev's are at comprehending game balance. Without the need to balance consoles or ships to a PvP crowd, the ships have gone off the charts for DPS, any option outside of DPS is relegated to worthless (unless you are Ryan) and the core of the mechanics have been warped so much it's a joke.
If they had pursued a PvP balance before DR, they would also have been able to create a better solution to make difficult enemies than bullet sponges. Primarily because they would have been working with a system that required balance, something that translates directly to PvE. The PvP players may cause some problems with finding exploits and what's OP, which can then be fixed, but they are in essence some of the best playtester's at Cryptic's disposal.
Now the PvP crowd have essentially been silenced (lack of working lvl 60 Kerrat, terrible balance...) the PvE crowd (the only one left) are being targeted as the dirty scum destroying their life's work. If there's one thing consistent about the EP and Geko, they are still beating the players for their own mistakes.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
And none of those PvP games are based on the Star Trek IP with it's tree hugging, hippy, exploration lovin, we come in peace fan base. Shoot to kill, Shoot to kill, Shoot to kill.
Ok I may love PvP... however I am also a huge Trek fan.
So I am not asking this question to argue with you really cause my fellow Trek fan where brothers aren't we.
I just have to ask though.
Do you find STO to be in anyway a good representation of Trek ?
I wouldn't say I do myself. I like some things don't get me wrong, the odd mission moment here and there is well done. I enjoy some of the campy missions, even if that wasn't the writers intention, they end up feeling trek like. However the majority of the missions have no message that makes me feel that trek glow... they are simply not even at the level of mediocre fan fiction imo. As for the games mechanics... lets be honest now murdering 1,000,000,000 Kazon per skill point... or slaughtering 10,000 Voth per hour with a Batleth, or mini gun... doesn't exactly scream trek to me either.
At least with PvP... the KDF - FED - ROM player space battles feel a bit like a trek "action" episode. You can also explain it all away as a battle simulation if you want to RP it up... not like Trek didn't have more then one episode that involved war games of some kind. However the actual missions where its destroy 20 enemy ships... then beam down and disintegrate 30 of them with your phaser or better yet grab that Nausican sword and make fedish alieabobs. The entire thing feels pretty much like the complete opposite of what trek means to me.
At least at one point there was SOME exploration and ways to play in a more "trek" manner. Granted as big as a trek fan as I am, I prefer games that go pew pew still. I think however there are a great number of players in this game that have fooled themselves into thinking they are playing a "trek" game... when there in fact just playing another pew pew game like all the rest, this one just has some licensed characters, skins, and sounds.
Then they say the same thing the last ones did. Each new batch of PvPers have this entitlement complex that without that exact batch of PvPers to... I guess PvP in the game that PvP will die.
Firstly I do agree with you player cycles is all Cryptic cares about anymore. I think part of the reason the general sections have gotten more testy lately... is more people are coming to realize that. Also Cryptic has started treating the rest of the game the same way as the PvP end of the game.
Let me explain what I mean a little bit.
5 years ago... PvP players loudly (cause most people are... PvE PvP RP doesn't matter people are loud on the internet). Said X and Y needs to change ect.
Cryptic in fact did that... broken things at launch like perma VM disables ect got fixed... and the game even got a revamp at one point when Aux to Sif was added to the game and healing changed completely. This followed with escort changes not to long after.
This is around where (1.5 years in or so) Cryptic stopped listening. Its not that they should do what ever there players want. Of course not. A good developer listen and does what they feel is best for the game, and gets them where they see things going. However after this point it was almost like they on purpose did the EXACT opposite of what people asked for. People would complain about X or Y and Cryptic would release something that made that even worse... they also started promising things that they never ever did. There was even a point where they teased that new PvP game modes where in testing on redshirt and would hit tribble next week... ya guess what happened there. lol
I started writing a novel again... I think you get me though. At one point its not like they stopped listening it was like they started doing things just to spite there players. lol
So yes the turn over started. I don't think it was being entitled to ask for improvements in a game we have ALL been spending time in and in most cases cash. Its just that Cryptic seemed to be on a mission of active sabotage. One of there favorite things to do was change something (at which point the PvE crowed would scream that PvP players got X nerfed)... and of course now that 50-70% of the games players hate the rest for X change, we'll release this new Y. That in every case always completely undid the good change they made in the first place. Its always give with one hand (one step forward) then take away with the other (two back). This was when everyone was on about Cryptic seeming like it had no direction with one dev trying to fix stuff... and the other (*cough* the geko) releasing new junk 10x worse a week later in a lockbox.
Anyway the entire point of my newest novel here is this..
The same tactics are NOW being implemented in the rest of the game. The metrics have spoken and the players love it. Now the non PvP folks will come to understand our frustration. As things are removed (like exploration) it happened to use with PvP maps and a space and ground game type that where both deleted never to be replaced. You will see cryptic promise things and talk about X or Y and when the reality hits it will be clearly the opposite of what they said. Cause they are very good at saying what they think you want to hear even when its simply untrue. Why are they like that ? Clearly its because you are right... they aren't expecting any of you to be around long enough to truly matter. After 5-6 months you have past your best before dates and are disposable.
I know it sounds like I'm taking pleasure in this reality... I'm not though. Yes it sucked to see it happen to PvP. Yes its ironic that is now happening to the people that took joy in seeing the PvP crowd suffer cause someone poked fun at there explosion in kerrat once. In the end though I think we would all still love to see this game turn around. Won't happen though... so enjoy the fruits of Cryptics Education. They learned how to turn the PvP guys over very nicely and its painful, know that they are treating the entire games player base like disposable cartons of cream to be sucked dry I can't imagine the game is going anywhere accept though a translator so it can be sold in China.
The willful refusal to see what is plainly evident by so many is astonishing.
Cryptic -- whether overseen by Atari or PWE -- has always , always been in love with doing work according to metrics. Metrics are what lead us into the current situation of maximum monetization, after all.
Cryptic has always been reluctant to expend resources of any real magnitude on 'smaller' populations, until and unless they can see a return on the same. The game is composed not of groups but more of ... striations.
There's the Whales and the Elites, the People who Only Log On an Hour a Day, the Crafters, the RP'ers, the PVP'rs, and to a lesser degree the hardcore KDF or RDF types. The most money is made from those who
a) play the game the most
b) have the most incentive to buy dilithium and ZEN
c) show up in the largest numbers
PVP -- setting aside anyone's argument about if they like it or not -- is not going to fit the current metric that Cryptic is using. PVP is about socialization, skill, teamwork, and the game is now entirely DPS/buff focused.
I strongly suspect that no on on Cryptic's current team has any plan to revamp PVP ever. Creating a way to monetize it that wouldn't impinge on current models would require an investment unlikely to be recouped in the short term, and PWE has little tolerance for such things.
The situation is not being helped by the fact that the PVP community is very irate. It does not matter that they are fully justified, or that they are only asking for things to make gameplay better -- from the metric view point PVP players are a net loss.
You may or may not see small QoL improvements or additional things, but you're at a lower priority even than the KDF, which could be appeased with non-code things like new missions, ships, or art.
Overhauling PVP will not generate additional revenue that will be GREATER than the opportunity cost to overhaul it -- in other words, Cryptic figures it can make more money by doing other things than overhauling PVP, with the ugly reality that there simply aren't enough PVP players to seriously hurt their bottom line if they all leave or unsub.
To the OP : Your question implies that you honestly think Cryptic is planning things based on customer feedback. I shouldn't even have to point out, given Cryptic's track record, how unlikely (and ridiculous) that concept is.
A long time ago, Cryptic said that if they removed the pvp players from the population, then the game pop would not change much.
I'm not sure years of inattention from the devs have changed the situation.
Hoping to have a major pvp improvement is like hoping the next Farcry and Cod would have a good story or the next Bethesda game to be released without bug.
I'm really sorry, I have nothing against pvp player, as I'm one of them on others games, but pvp in sto ? Forget it. I'm really sorry. I'm the guy who want a Tabula Rasa 2 mmo, so I know your feeling. But that's the way this world is. Now, deal with it.
Hoping to have a major pvp improvement is like hoping the next Farcry and Cod would have a good story or the next Bethesda game to be released without bug.
Bethseda has sworn it's next game will launch with less than 3,000 bugs, pinky swear.
Comments
The sad fact is Cryptics PvP players WHERE the whales in this game. I think they will figure that out at some point. Believe it or not I have talked to plenty of people in this game I am not claiming to know the all the 20k or so players that play STO anymore... I am simply saying 600 people on my friends list and 3x that of people I just never added isn't a small sample of players. Sad for me as it is I spent 12+ hours a day in this game for far to long.
At this point the PvE circles are just catching up. Most of the PvP players have been leaving in frustration for at least a few years now. Its funny to see the same stuff we have been complaining about for 3 years being sighted as the reasons when people post there I'm out threads. lol
When the fleet bases hit... the fleets that hit Tier 5 first... where a handful of Large PvE fleets and 2-3 PvP fleets that had 10-20 people tops in them. Cause the PvP guys are whales... we are its also pretty sad. I have loved my PvP friends to death over the last 5 years, we where all a bunch of whales though. I have been in 3-4 fairly well known PvP fleets the last 5 or so years, none of them where really more then 10-15 core players. At this point they have all left. No doubt that isn't a large number of players at all. Thing is for cryptic if I added up the actual $ each one of those groups have dropped on this game getting the latest ships, and gear, and speeding grind its scary. The current fleet my toons are still sitting in... its not bragging in anyway, but I would guess in the last year the 10 core guys have likely dropped enough to buy a nice mid range Benz or beamer. lol
I have dabbled in a few PvE fleets... I know in my experience they don't drop $ in the same way.
Oh I think the rest of you have caught up. The STO community is all toxic now. You can find 2-3 people willing to continue to defend Cryptic, perhaps. I would say GD is now about 95% as nasty as the PvP subsection ever was. Give it another cash grab system revamp and we'll see if that doesn't go up just a bit more yet. lol
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You'd think after 4 years and 1001 posts, PvPer's would have gotten the hint by now.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
PVP games have more than 10 times the player base than STO..
All succesfull MMOs have decent PVP and devs working JUST for the PVP...
But cryptic claims that PVP is not worth it to develop! LOOOL cryptic..
Yes, PVP in STO is a failre beacose NO ONE in the HOLE universe wants to play PVP and not beacose PVP in STO is a disaster since season 3.
lol cryptic.. PVP is not worth it.. loool.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
They do get the hint. Then they leave, and a new breed of 'top PvPers' fills the gap that was vacated.
This new breed of dedicated PvPers will be willing to tolerate the changes that the previous breed was not willing to tolerate.
Until they get so tired of being ignored that they leave.
Then what happens?
That's right. The people who don't mind the changes will take their place as the new PvP playerbase.
The cycle will continue on and on with new groups of players being willing to tolerate changes to the game, while other players move to greener pastures.
I can see why they would concentrate on boff systems.
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lol so true you gotta love the irony ........whats the saying that guy is the pot calling the kettle ...well you know ..but dont bother you cant tell (carebears) them anything next to the devs they blame us ( (PvPers)for mucking up the game as well lol do y'all remember those threads ?? i sure do ..but whatever ..they want no balance and just want shots that do over 9000...........wait....oh god im in the movie the edge of tomorrow
OMG! I AGREE WITH YOU! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! (I am going to the doctor to check my fanboy lvl).
But imagine how many pvprs would be on STO if the PVP on STO would be worth it, well balance and not broken.
That is why I laugh when some ppl justified the low development of PVP beacose "no one plays PVP".
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
you guys are awful close to that right now ............im sure one of you will have a mentally ill moment and cross that line ..honestly it like watching a train wreck ...... and not everyone in the community was that toxic... There were others me included... That have always maintained no matter how angry you get in the end this is just a game and the people that develop it are just that people they deserve a modicum of respect and fair treatment no matter what because if you were in the other shoe how would you feel a lot of the problems nowadays is that a lot of people put themselves in the other shoe you know why? Because it's all about them, I mean kinda if you look at it look at some of the answers in this form hey TRIBBLE them there's not enough of them even matter you don't matter, great gone by that theory, on the majority should better hell it's applied in life is see how that works Blacks Hispanics Asians Native Americans........ yeah none of you matter why? Because there just is not enough for you in the majority so therefore you get nothing no one wants to listen to you...go away ... Well all I can say is thank God those people don't give up, despite people telling them they don't matter because is not enough of them
Just your opinion. LOTRO was a successful MMO, and has no meaningful PvP. SWOTOR is thriving now, and has no meaningful PvP. Warhammer Online had what many considered a good PvP system, but lacking in PvE, and it's gone now. PvP is not a sole determining factor in what makes or breaks an MMO.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
LOL.. like STO.. I still remember those PVE missions:
"Captain in this planet there are important mineral recourses. But the (insert random race name) have send a team to collect them. We can not allow that."
Kill 5 enemy groups.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What the hell are you talking about? The PVP on SWOtor is like a Ferrari againts a Fiat 600 of the PVP on STO. It may not be the main focus, but is not forgoten like on STO.
I said this: "All succesfull MMOs have decent PVP and devs working JUST for the PVP...". I didnt said that all succesfull MMOs are based on PVP. They succed beacose they have the good balance beatuine have a good PVE and at least a DECENT PVP.
I didnt play warhammer online, but I can give a full list of MMOs that are focus on PVP (btw, I am not asking that STO focus on PVP, that would be also a failure) that have more success than STO. And some of them are scify MMOs.. (cof.. cof.. EVE.. cof.. cof..)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I recognize people play PvP. I just don't care as much.
The turnover of PvPers is really just too much for me to really concern myself with the health of STO's PvP scene.
Because it's always the same talking points.
"The STO PvPers bring a lot to the game and Cryptic will regret not listening to us if we all leave!"
Then they do.
"Hey, all those PvPers who were stomping us in the queues are gone now. I guess that makes us the new cream of the crop!"
Then they say the same thing the last ones did. Each new batch of PvPers have this entitlement complex that without that exact batch of PvPers to... I guess PvP in the game
But it won't die. There'll just be new players ready to replace them who are willing to put up with whatever the flavor of the month is.
In fairness, turnover and cannibalization is a simple fact of MMO gaming in this day and age.
Small games, big games, WoW even - players drift away and pop back to check out new content.
That'd be true of STO even if PvP had never existed.
The key distinction being that being a smaller playerbase, the critical threshold for supporting any PvP is tighter for STO.
Be the go-to scapegoat for blame anytime something gets nerfed.
Previously the dev's got the squits with the PvP crowd and D'Angelo had a hissy fit and stopped work on PvP. I dunno if he's worked out that he acted like a 2yr old with his ice cream taken away, but then again the PvP players really got bored of the vacuous claims of the lead dev's stating PvP focus coming soon for 3 years.
This lack of work on PvP has actually shown how bad the lead dev's are at comprehending game balance. Without the need to balance consoles or ships to a PvP crowd, the ships have gone off the charts for DPS, any option outside of DPS is relegated to worthless (unless you are Ryan) and the core of the mechanics have been warped so much it's a joke.
If they had pursued a PvP balance before DR, they would also have been able to create a better solution to make difficult enemies than bullet sponges. Primarily because they would have been working with a system that required balance, something that translates directly to PvE. The PvP players may cause some problems with finding exploits and what's OP, which can then be fixed, but they are in essence some of the best playtester's at Cryptic's disposal.
Now the PvP crowd have essentially been silenced (lack of working lvl 60 Kerrat, terrible balance...) the PvE crowd (the only one left) are being targeted as the dirty scum destroying their life's work. If there's one thing consistent about the EP and Geko, they are still beating the players for their own mistakes.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Ok I may love PvP... however I am also a huge Trek fan.
So I am not asking this question to argue with you really cause my fellow Trek fan where brothers aren't we.
I just have to ask though.
Do you find STO to be in anyway a good representation of Trek ?
I wouldn't say I do myself. I like some things don't get me wrong, the odd mission moment here and there is well done. I enjoy some of the campy missions, even if that wasn't the writers intention, they end up feeling trek like. However the majority of the missions have no message that makes me feel that trek glow... they are simply not even at the level of mediocre fan fiction imo. As for the games mechanics... lets be honest now murdering 1,000,000,000 Kazon per skill point... or slaughtering 10,000 Voth per hour with a Batleth, or mini gun... doesn't exactly scream trek to me either.
At least with PvP... the KDF - FED - ROM player space battles feel a bit like a trek "action" episode. You can also explain it all away as a battle simulation if you want to RP it up... not like Trek didn't have more then one episode that involved war games of some kind. However the actual missions where its destroy 20 enemy ships... then beam down and disintegrate 30 of them with your phaser or better yet grab that Nausican sword and make fedish alieabobs. The entire thing feels pretty much like the complete opposite of what trek means to me.
At least at one point there was SOME exploration and ways to play in a more "trek" manner. Granted as big as a trek fan as I am, I prefer games that go pew pew still. I think however there are a great number of players in this game that have fooled themselves into thinking they are playing a "trek" game... when there in fact just playing another pew pew game like all the rest, this one just has some licensed characters, skins, and sounds.
Firstly I do agree with you player cycles is all Cryptic cares about anymore. I think part of the reason the general sections have gotten more testy lately... is more people are coming to realize that. Also Cryptic has started treating the rest of the game the same way as the PvP end of the game.
Let me explain what I mean a little bit.
5 years ago... PvP players loudly (cause most people are... PvE PvP RP doesn't matter people are loud on the internet). Said X and Y needs to change ect.
Cryptic in fact did that... broken things at launch like perma VM disables ect got fixed... and the game even got a revamp at one point when Aux to Sif was added to the game and healing changed completely. This followed with escort changes not to long after.
This is around where (1.5 years in or so) Cryptic stopped listening. Its not that they should do what ever there players want. Of course not. A good developer listen and does what they feel is best for the game, and gets them where they see things going. However after this point it was almost like they on purpose did the EXACT opposite of what people asked for. People would complain about X or Y and Cryptic would release something that made that even worse... they also started promising things that they never ever did. There was even a point where they teased that new PvP game modes where in testing on redshirt and would hit tribble next week... ya guess what happened there. lol
I started writing a novel again... I think you get me though. At one point its not like they stopped listening it was like they started doing things just to spite there players. lol
So yes the turn over started. I don't think it was being entitled to ask for improvements in a game we have ALL been spending time in and in most cases cash. Its just that Cryptic seemed to be on a mission of active sabotage. One of there favorite things to do was change something (at which point the PvE crowed would scream that PvP players got X nerfed)... and of course now that 50-70% of the games players hate the rest for X change, we'll release this new Y. That in every case always completely undid the good change they made in the first place. Its always give with one hand (one step forward) then take away with the other (two back). This was when everyone was on about Cryptic seeming like it had no direction with one dev trying to fix stuff... and the other (*cough* the geko) releasing new junk 10x worse a week later in a lockbox.
Anyway the entire point of my newest novel here is this..
The same tactics are NOW being implemented in the rest of the game. The metrics have spoken and the players love it. Now the non PvP folks will come to understand our frustration. As things are removed (like exploration) it happened to use with PvP maps and a space and ground game type that where both deleted never to be replaced. You will see cryptic promise things and talk about X or Y and when the reality hits it will be clearly the opposite of what they said. Cause they are very good at saying what they think you want to hear even when its simply untrue. Why are they like that ? Clearly its because you are right... they aren't expecting any of you to be around long enough to truly matter. After 5-6 months you have past your best before dates and are disposable.
I know it sounds like I'm taking pleasure in this reality... I'm not though. Yes it sucked to see it happen to PvP. Yes its ironic that is now happening to the people that took joy in seeing the PvP crowd suffer cause someone poked fun at there explosion in kerrat once. In the end though I think we would all still love to see this game turn around. Won't happen though... so enjoy the fruits of Cryptics Education. They learned how to turn the PvP guys over very nicely and its painful, know that they are treating the entire games player base like disposable cartons of cream to be sucked dry I can't imagine the game is going anywhere accept though a translator so it can be sold in China.
The truth is toxic?
Cryptic -- whether overseen by Atari or PWE -- has always , always been in love with doing work according to metrics. Metrics are what lead us into the current situation of maximum monetization, after all.
Cryptic has always been reluctant to expend resources of any real magnitude on 'smaller' populations, until and unless they can see a return on the same. The game is composed not of groups but more of ... striations.
There's the Whales and the Elites, the People who Only Log On an Hour a Day, the Crafters, the RP'ers, the PVP'rs, and to a lesser degree the hardcore KDF or RDF types. The most money is made from those who
a) play the game the most
b) have the most incentive to buy dilithium and ZEN
c) show up in the largest numbers
PVP -- setting aside anyone's argument about if they like it or not -- is not going to fit the current metric that Cryptic is using. PVP is about socialization, skill, teamwork, and the game is now entirely DPS/buff focused.
I strongly suspect that no on on Cryptic's current team has any plan to revamp PVP ever. Creating a way to monetize it that wouldn't impinge on current models would require an investment unlikely to be recouped in the short term, and PWE has little tolerance for such things.
The situation is not being helped by the fact that the PVP community is very irate. It does not matter that they are fully justified, or that they are only asking for things to make gameplay better -- from the metric view point PVP players are a net loss.
You may or may not see small QoL improvements or additional things, but you're at a lower priority even than the KDF, which could be appeased with non-code things like new missions, ships, or art.
Overhauling PVP will not generate additional revenue that will be GREATER than the opportunity cost to overhaul it -- in other words, Cryptic figures it can make more money by doing other things than overhauling PVP, with the ugly reality that there simply aren't enough PVP players to seriously hurt their bottom line if they all leave or unsub.
To the OP : Your question implies that you honestly think Cryptic is planning things based on customer feedback. I shouldn't even have to point out, given Cryptic's track record, how unlikely (and ridiculous) that concept is.
A long time ago, Cryptic said that if they removed the pvp players from the population, then the game pop would not change much.
I'm not sure years of inattention from the devs have changed the situation.
Hoping to have a major pvp improvement is like hoping the next Farcry and Cod would have a good story or the next Bethesda game to be released without bug.
I'm really sorry, I have nothing against pvp player, as I'm one of them on others games, but pvp in sto ? Forget it. I'm really sorry. I'm the guy who want a Tabula Rasa 2 mmo, so I know your feeling. But that's the way this world is. Now, deal with it.
Bethseda has sworn it's next game will launch with less than 3,000 bugs, pinky swear.