The irony is that a decent PvP returns balance in spades to PvE.
THAT IS ABSOLUTE NON-SENSE.
PVP and PVE have entirely different gameplay priorities. What weapons, powers, skills, or whatever aspects of gameplay work well for a competitive environment where two or more players compete will not necessarily (can't discount chance overlap) work for a format where one or more players battle against the AI. For a start the AI as an entity does not merit the same balance considerations that players on an opposing team do and therefore excessively unbalanced games are enabled in PVE in order to allow for gameplay of a sort that can't possibly exist in a serious competitive environments. See for example: Sunset Overdrive. And that environment of more extreme gameplay has different mechanical considerations to consider as well, to support those aspects of PVE that don't factor into PVP. Respawn mechanics, weapon selection, available powers, leveling, these function differently in PVE than in PVP and if you therefore balance the former with the latter in mind you will result in a compromised game existing in one environment but making functional decisions for another.
That's the simplest possible definition of a bad game and the only concievable situation where copying PVP balance and gameplay onto PVE would be in any way desirable is if that PVE is attempting to mimic PVP gameplay with the AI (see. Unreal Tournament.) However, as far as PVE goes that's a waste of an opportunity because it only takes advantage of the smaller social aspects of player versus AI rather than engaging with the higher level mechanical possibilities of the format (see. Half Life 2.)
Its still not something we should entertain for STO. Supporting PVP should come from features and mechanics religated to PVP. They shouldn't be applied to PVE because those changes will not, under any but coincidental circumstances, result in improvements.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
PVP and PVE have entirely different gameplay priorities. What weapons, powers, skills, or whatever aspects of gameplay work well for a competitive environment where two or more players compete will not necessarily (can't discount chance overlap) work for a format where one or more players battle against the AI. For a start the AI as an entity does not merit the same balance considerations that players on an opposing team do and therefore excessively unbalanced games are enabled in PVE in order to allow for gameplay of a sort that can't possibly exist in a serious competitive environments. See for example: Sunset Overdrive. And that environment of more extreme gameplay has different mechanical considerations to consider as well, to support those aspects of PVE that don't factor into PVP. Respawn mechanics, weapon selection, available powers, leveling, these function differently in PVE than in PVP and if you therefore balance the former with the latter in mind you will result in a compromised game existing in one environment but making functional decisions for another.
That's the simplest possible definition of a bad game and the only concievable situation where copying PVP balance and gameplay onto PVE would be in any way desirable is if that PVE is attempting to mimic PVP gameplay with the AI (see. Unreal Tournament.) However, as far as PVE goes that's a waste of an opportunity because it only takes advantage of the smaller social aspects of player versus AI rather than engaging with the higher level mechanical possibilities of the format (see. Half Life 2.)
Its still not something we should entertain for STO. Supporting PVP should come from features and mechanics religated to PVP. They shouldn't be applied to PVE because those changes will not, under any but coincidental circumstances, result in improvements.
Yeah, I've never played a single game where PvE and PvP COULD follow the same rules. Every single one has had gameplay limitations that precluded such a thing. If nothing else it was the AI. AIs aren't and can't be as smart as human players.
The game I've played with the most sophisticated AI was one of the arcade Soul Calibur games. In Conquest Mode, you would choose a character and as you played the game would log what you did and use that to create AI settings that would be used to create a rough facsimile of your personal fighting style that other players would face in battle.
But that had a LOT of limitations. Namely that the AI wasn't sophisticated enough to duplicate a player's favorite combos, and that certain AI settings were set based on how often the player played and not as much on their skill. The top players were those who literally fought thousands of fights, and when you faced one of them the AI would do things that THEY couldn't do in real life. I once got the opportunity to take on one of the actual top players in actual combat and not against his avatar(Astaroth). It was a very different experience to fighting his digital avatar. In his words, it was impossible for a human player to edgeblock(a form of defensive counterattack) as much as the AI did at his level. Why? It required you to guess whether your opponent would use a high/mid/low attack AND had precise timing.
Also I created a second account so that I could fight myself. IIRC the first used Cervantes and Cassandra, and the second used Yoshimitsu. Fighting myself was weird.... like the guy who used Ashtaroth a lot, the AI just didn't do things the way I did. As Cassandra one of my favorite tricks was to bypass guard by hitting the opponent repeatedly with my shield. (Each hit moves you a little while a blocking character can't move without dropping block, eventually you hit them in the back of the head which cancels the block) The AI never did that.... ever. Also the AI would never do stuff like the launch+kick combo to knock the opponent off the edge of the arena for a ring out.
I think the game may have tracked your favorite mvoes but it didn't seem to understand combos at all...
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Comments
Which is the truth^^
THAT IS ABSOLUTE NON-SENSE.
PVP and PVE have entirely different gameplay priorities. What weapons, powers, skills, or whatever aspects of gameplay work well for a competitive environment where two or more players compete will not necessarily (can't discount chance overlap) work for a format where one or more players battle against the AI. For a start the AI as an entity does not merit the same balance considerations that players on an opposing team do and therefore excessively unbalanced games are enabled in PVE in order to allow for gameplay of a sort that can't possibly exist in a serious competitive environments. See for example: Sunset Overdrive. And that environment of more extreme gameplay has different mechanical considerations to consider as well, to support those aspects of PVE that don't factor into PVP. Respawn mechanics, weapon selection, available powers, leveling, these function differently in PVE than in PVP and if you therefore balance the former with the latter in mind you will result in a compromised game existing in one environment but making functional decisions for another.
That's the simplest possible definition of a bad game and the only concievable situation where copying PVP balance and gameplay onto PVE would be in any way desirable is if that PVE is attempting to mimic PVP gameplay with the AI (see. Unreal Tournament.) However, as far as PVE goes that's a waste of an opportunity because it only takes advantage of the smaller social aspects of player versus AI rather than engaging with the higher level mechanical possibilities of the format (see. Half Life 2.)
Its still not something we should entertain for STO. Supporting PVP should come from features and mechanics religated to PVP. They shouldn't be applied to PVE because those changes will not, under any but coincidental circumstances, result in improvements.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The game I've played with the most sophisticated AI was one of the arcade Soul Calibur games. In Conquest Mode, you would choose a character and as you played the game would log what you did and use that to create AI settings that would be used to create a rough facsimile of your personal fighting style that other players would face in battle.
But that had a LOT of limitations. Namely that the AI wasn't sophisticated enough to duplicate a player's favorite combos, and that certain AI settings were set based on how often the player played and not as much on their skill. The top players were those who literally fought thousands of fights, and when you faced one of them the AI would do things that THEY couldn't do in real life. I once got the opportunity to take on one of the actual top players in actual combat and not against his avatar(Astaroth). It was a very different experience to fighting his digital avatar. In his words, it was impossible for a human player to edgeblock(a form of defensive counterattack) as much as the AI did at his level. Why? It required you to guess whether your opponent would use a high/mid/low attack AND had precise timing.
Also I created a second account so that I could fight myself. IIRC the first used Cervantes and Cassandra, and the second used Yoshimitsu. Fighting myself was weird.... like the guy who used Ashtaroth a lot, the AI just didn't do things the way I did. As Cassandra one of my favorite tricks was to bypass guard by hitting the opponent repeatedly with my shield. (Each hit moves you a little while a blocking character can't move without dropping block, eventually you hit them in the back of the head which cancels the block) The AI never did that.... ever. Also the AI would never do stuff like the launch+kick combo to knock the opponent off the edge of the arena for a ring out.
I think the game may have tracked your favorite mvoes but it didn't seem to understand combos at all...
My character Tsin'xing
Only 3,000? That's a bold statement for em to make. :P