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yaaayy new dil sink

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  • js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    As long as this system does not come with "FINISH NOW" I won't be complaining.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    doghou5e wrote: »
    I don't like the looks of this so far.

    I'd like to know at what level of crafting each manual becomes available.

    So at the moment as a tac I can train attack pattern omega 3 at the click of a button. Are the ranks of the abilities tied to unlocking at a specific level of crafting?

    Or will it be more like I need to get to level ten to unlock the ability to craft PADDs?

    So am I going to need to get to say tier 10 to unlock abilities I currently can train now without waiting months.

    This sounds to me like a mish mash of traits and crafting to me and from what I see so far I'm not a fan.

    It sounds like a bad idea to me, taking something simple and over complicating it for the sake of it.

    The blog post specifically states that the boff training school has no levels or XP. Everything you can already do right now is instantly available.
    Unlike the other crafting schools, the Officer Training school does not need to be leveled in order to unlock the recipes.
    In fact this school has no experience associated with it at all; players either have the recipes unlocked or they don’t.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • sohtohsohtoh Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/arc/2d/db/2ddbf2ecc945668799d2f1012f3b08c41420659940.png

    In this screenshot, it shows the Science/Intel bridge officer Pexib with Hazard Emitters II in a spot where normally it would be Hazard Emitters I.

    I wonder if this is a mistake; or if this means we may be able to slot all level 3 bridge officer abilities on one bridge officer.
    "I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
  • flyingshoeboxflyingshoebox Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The basic idea of the manual sounds good but I don’t like the cost being dilithium plus mats it just seems odd to shoehorn it into the crafting system. The game I think has gotten to the point that everything seems to cost dilithium. Also how are we going to get manual for stuff you can’t train yourself and you don’t buy from an npc. Like Aux to sif 3 or torpedo spread 3. Are those going to be added to what you can train based on your skill points?

    Something that I think would have been nice with this update would have been also making it so you could use intel powers in universal slots Just to make the name make sense again.
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Actually... I'm very happy with this. Even with a dilithium fee attached - I have several unique boffs that I can't use efficiently because I can't trade them for the skills I want. And it isn't really a 'sink' - it flat out says -

    "Many of the higher ranking Training Manuals will not be for sale at the bridge officer trainer. Players will need to craft those manuals in the new Officer Training school. Unlike the other crafting schools, the Officer Training school does not need to be leveled in order to unlock the recipes. In fact this school has no experience associated with it at all; players either have the recipes unlocked or they don’t."

    If you don't want to retrain boffs, don't. But for those of us who are attached to the Borg Engineering Officer or the Photonic medical officer - this is an amazing thing. So, and no sarcasm intended, Thanks Cryptic. This is good thing.
  • hausofmartokhausofmartok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    adorenko wrote: »
    Well this thread filled up fast.
    Actually it didn't. They just merged my thread that was aptly named into this one, that's Crypticly titled. Facepalm.
    Whatever. On the topic, I agree with some that are saying the original BO trainer could use some improvement. I just don't like what they've done here as the improvements. It comes off as overly complicated. And the added Dil costs, well I don't know of anyone who thinks we need more things to take our Dil in this game.
    And I can name several things that could and should've been done/fixed before this:

    Defera Invasion Zone - could've fixed it
    Ker'rat War Zone - could've fixed it
    Revamped DS9
    Revamped Qo'nos
    Added a Voth or Undine PvP Warzone
    Revamped Terradome
    Fixed the tray loadouts that are still broken
    Sent out a hotfix for the Breen ship discount (Cryptic: "This means a lot to the players so all hands on deck, fix this yesterday, everything else is on hold until that gets fixed. Oh i know I'm dreaming.)
    System to address Battle Zone AFK'ers & leechers
    New PvP maps and modes
    Balancing stupid unbalanced powers like Surgical Strikes and Ionic Turbulence

    I could go on and on...
  • doghou5edoghou5e Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The blog post specifically states that the boff training school has no levels or XP. Everything you can already do right now is instantly available.

    Cheers mate, just reread it and caught that.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This is good. From how I figured it out. The BOFFs can learn all the skills. And you can easily rotate the skill in/out of use per mission or ship. This is good. As I have a lot of BOFFs I rotate around depending on what ship I'm using. Now this will make some BOFFs even more desirable to use.

    I'm looking forward to it.
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  • doghou5edoghou5e Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Umm...read the FRAKING article. ALL your questioned are answered in there. So by the the look of things so far, it seems you looked at cryptic does everything wrong and I hate it so I'm not even gonna read what they are ACTUALLY doing far. Yeah I can see how that would make this new system look bad. Funny thought...try reading what the are actually doing and how this will fix the issues with intel boffs and the issue with needing a bloody truck loak of BoFF for alt ships and BoFF training and yeah...this is actually a pretty good idea. Not that I expect you to know that since you can't be bothered to even read a bloody article before jumping on the it's a bad idea bandwagon.

    Way to over react.

    I skimmed over the article and asked for clarification here because of the discussion going on in the chat channels I am in. What I didn't ask for was someone completely overreacting and jumping down my throat.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    depending on what the dil costs will actually be this could be a huge improvement over the current system

    can't wait to train cross occupation without having to bug my fleet mates
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Wonder how people rolling truly new characters will handle this given that most dil sources aren't available till 50+? I get the feeling we're going to see a larger number of true-newbie builds running whatever random skills their boffs came with. Tac Team 2, Scramble Sensors 2, and Aceton Field 3 for all!

    More likely they'll just have to drop $5 on zen to turn to dil, which I'm sure is part of the point of this. :rolleyes:
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Wonder how people rolling truly new characters will handle this given that most dil sources aren't available till 50+? I get the feeling we're going to see a larger number of true-newbie builds running whatever random skills their boffs came with. Tac Team 2, Scramble Sensors 2, and Aceton Field 3 for all!

    More likely they'll just have to drop $5 on zen to turn to dil, which I'm sure is part of the point of this. :rolleyes:

    Odds of the truly new player having looked at what skills they would have needed to be able to train their BOFFs in abilities that their captain could have trained them...makes the new player argument kind of moot. They wouldn't have been able to train them anyway...
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    And I can name several things that could and should've been done/fixed before this:

    Defera Invasion Zone - could've fixed it
    Ker'rat War Zone - could've fixed it
    Revamped DS9
    Revamped Qo'nos
    Added a Voth or Undine PvP Warzone
    Revamped Terradome
    Fixed the tray loadouts that are still broken
    Sent out a hotfix for the Breen ship discount (Cryptic: "This means a lot to the players so all hands on deck, fix this yesterday, everything else is on hold until that gets fixed. Oh i know I'm dreaming.)
    System to address Battle Zone AFK'ers & leechers
    New PvP maps and modes
    Balancing stupid unbalanced powers like Surgical Strikes and Ionic Turbulence

    I could go on and on...

    Ehhhh, new Warzones? DS9 revamp? While I would like to see these happen, it's not as critical as fixing a chronically broken boff training system. Anything that isn't a bug fix should not take hypothetical priority over this. Fixing a broken Defera or broken tray loadouts? Okay maybe those should have a higher priority than they seem to be getting, but "new content" is something that I would not give priority over longstanding, QoL issues and game-breaking bugs and imbalances.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Wonder how people rolling truly new characters will handle this given that most dil sources aren't available till 50+? I get the feeling we're going to see a larger number of true-newbie builds running whatever random skills their boffs came with. Tac Team 2, Scramble Sensors 2, and Aceton Field 3 for all!

    More likely they'll just have to drop $5 on zen to turn to dil, which I'm sure is part of the point of this. :rolleyes:

    I expect to see a swarm of newbs outside trellius and nimbus that rivals argala.

    Then optimist in me hopes that foundry gets a lot more use because of this.

    The cynic thinks most newbs won't be able to find any of the three options.
  • hausofmartokhausofmartok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Ehhhh, new Warzones? DS9 revamp? While I would like to see these happen, it's not as critical as fixing a chronically broken boff training system. Anything that isn't a bug fix should not take hypothetical priority over this. Fixing a broken Defera or broken tray loadouts? Okay maybe those should have a higher priority than they seem to be getting, but "new content" is something that I would not give priority over longstanding, QoL issues and game-breaking bugs and imbalances.


    Please explain to us exactly how the existing BO training system is "chronically broken" using specific examples, screen shots, whatever you've got.
    I've been training, trading, buying, selling all my BOFFS for the last two years and have never had an issue other than when I hit some restrictions with Romulan BOFFS and who can and can't help train them. I know there was a couple recent bugs with the BO system, but those were new and introduced with DR, like the double listing and one being grayed out. These were not Chronic though and new bugs that have already been fixed in my understanding.
  • mvp333mvp333 Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Actually it didn't. They just merged my thread that was aptly named into this one, that's Crypticly titled. Facepalm.
    Whatever. On the topic, I agree with some that are saying the original BO trainer could use some improvement. I just don't like what they've done here as the improvements. It comes off as overly complicated. And the added Dil costs, well I don't know of anyone who thinks we need more things to take our Dil in this game.
    And I can name several things that could and should've been done/fixed before this:

    Defera Invasion Zone - could've fixed it
    Ker'rat War Zone - could've fixed it
    Revamped DS9
    Revamped Qo'nos
    Added a Voth or Undine PvP Warzone
    Revamped Terradome
    Fixed the tray loadouts that are still broken
    Sent out a hotfix for the Breen ship discount (Cryptic: "This means a lot to the players so all hands on deck, fix this yesterday, everything else is on hold until that gets fixed. Oh i know I'm dreaming.)
    System to address Battle Zone AFK'ers & leechers
    New PvP maps and modes
    Balancing stupid unbalanced powers like Surgical Strikes and Ionic Turbulence

    I could go on and on...

    Defera: Old; low priority because Cryptic logic. I couldn't care less seeing as I want nothing to do with Omega Rep or the Borg, but it should probably be fixed either way considering the fact that it's an ENTIRE ADVENTURE ZONE THAT ALREADY EXISTS. I agree fully here.

    DS9: Not the coding/systems department's main concern. This might be happening in the art team while systems is busy with new features like this. If it isn't, it'll certainly come around when there's a Gamma Quadrant season/expansion. One way or another, do we honestly need this instead of, say, a core system like BOff skills being revamped to what to me looks like a better design?

    Qo'noS: Uhh, why? Sure, I'd love a nicer-looking (or at least more accurate) new map, but I'd rather see Qo'noS expanded a bit (Particularly the suburbs area of the city; there could even be something like a mini-adventure zone there) than given a full revamp. Regardless, canon aside (And we all know how much Cryptic cares about canon) I see no reason why it would need to be touched at all honestly.

    Voth/Undine PvP warzone, Ker'rat warzone: PvP's been pretty much abandoned; probably a lost cause with insufficient returns, the way PWE sees it... Dumb as hell but I think we just have to accept it at this point.

    Terradome: Uh, Cryptic logic? I think that they're applying the same logic they do to interiors to the queues: If people aren't using them, then why do anything with them?
    Either way, I don't see why they didn't release a new Terradome with Season 10, but I'm happy with Undine Infiltration for now, and if they did revamp Terradome it would probably be pretty lame anyway.

    Tray loadouts: I suspect that either these are in the process of being fixed, or Cryptic has no idea how the hell to fix them.

    Balancing Intel powers: Not for another while. I think they're OP on purpose; Cryptic normally nerfs OP powers on the patch after release. Who knows, though.
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    depending on what the dil costs will actually be this could be a huge improvement over the current system

    can't wait to train cross occupation without having to bug my fleet mates

    But this doesn't necessarily cost you dilithium. Lets say you want Torp High Yield 3 - if you're a tac captain you can train it yourself without any concerns. But if you aren't - you find a player willing to craft the training manual for you or you go buy it from the exchange. I imagine these will run - depending on actual dilithium cost - from 500k to 2 mil energy credits a piece as they're essentially unlimited items with low entry cost. It also looks like players are getting the 'rare power schools' added to their training lists as they mention 'powers not normally available'. So A sci captain can potentially train TSS 3 and so on.

    I don't see this as a 'monetization' of the system, but something actually intended to let players use any of their boffs - and try to keep other players involved in the training system.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This doesn't actually add anything to the game

    It's just paying for something that is currently free, thanks for that
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    vestereng wrote: »
    This doesn't actually add anything to the game

    It's just paying for something that is currently free, thanks for that

    Exactly.

    Yet a few people are going to claim this is "content". lol

    This is nothing but yet another way to sink D which leads to more $ needing to be spent.

    Just when you thought Cryptic couldn't wring any more sinks out out of this thing after the upgraded system.

    Nothing you can do but shake your head at this point.
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    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • czertik123czertik123 Member Posts: 1,122 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    well it realy depends on HOW that manuals are implemented :)
    do i will need say viral matrix mk3 only once and then i can use it for 3 officers or i have to buy it 3x ?
    and what will be currency ? ec? dil ? how much ?
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    vestereng wrote: »
    It's just paying for something that is currently free, thanks for that

    Yeah, those multi-million credit bridge officers on the exchange with valuable skills like Transfer Shield Strength III are free.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • dkeith2011dkeith2011 Member Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    According to the patch notes for tomorrow the loadout tray bug should be fixed.

    Lets see how long that lasts...
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    iconians wrote: »
    Yeah, those multi-million credit bridge officers on the exchange with valuable skills like Transfer Shield Strength III are free.

    EC generation is free yes there is no cap on the ec you can earn daily is there ? One that you can perhaps bypass by using $.

    There where also doff missions which would generate bridge officers that you could use to train. Sure the chances you pull that TSS 3 if that is what you where looking for would be low. However chances are you would pull a doff you could "trade" through the exchange for the one you want. For yes free.

    This new system is a cash grab my friend. Revamping systems to make money seems to be all Cryptic can do anymore.

    I'm looking forward to the new skills that hit in the next lockbox... Oh Gold Skill books in Lockboxes Genius.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    ... to quickly and easily customize

    This is expert bs it's so hilarious


    Having to craft abilities using dil - which you by the way don't have the right career for, is somehow quick

    Hilarious


    All I need to know is when this launches so I can have everyone done with slotting abilites before then.

    Another blatant cash grab that just ruins the freedom to swap your build around

    Quick and easy muhahah, bs level reaches critical mass
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    czertik123 wrote: »
    well it realy depends on HOW that manuals are implemented :)
    do i will need say viral matrix mk3 only once and then i can use it for 3 officers or i have to buy it 3x ?
    and what will be currency ? ec? dil ? how much ?

    If you want to buy the manual - you will be buying it from another player who has crafted the manual. Considering early indications show low investment into crafting the manual and it's essentially an unlimited item - I'd be very, very shocked if you pay more then 500k - 2 mil ec when the system goes live. After everyone gets their rush shopping done, I'd guesttimate 250k per manual.

    Also, they'll be 1 use items. Part of the point is keeping you interacting with other players. It'll still probably be way cheaper and easier then hunting 42 pages of 'very rare human science officer' for TSS3 for example.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Please explain to us exactly how the existing BO training system is "chronically broken" using specific examples, screen shots, whatever you've got.
    I've been training, trading, buying, selling all my BOFFS for the last two years and have never had an issue other than when I hit some restrictions with Romulan BOFFS and who can and can't help train them. I know there was a couple recent bugs with the BO system, but those were new and introduced with DR, like the double listing and one being grayed out. These were not Chronic though and new bugs that have already been fixed in my understanding.

    Romulan training is still jacked up with unusual restrictions as far as I am aware, and there has never been a solution to training Bound boffs in Captain abilities. It's not user-friendly at all. Ever watch some poor new player in Zone chat trying to figure out how to get their Romulans trained? And just to clarify, a "broken" system can still work, it doesn't have to be nonfunctional to be labeled as such, but it can be incredibly frustrating and require dumb workarounds. e.g. certain ship builds may be referred to as "broken" for how IMBA/OP they are even though all the parts are functioning exactly as they're coded. "Broken" does not necessarily = "bug."
    doghou5e wrote: »
    Cheers mate, just reread it and caught that.

    And thank heavens for that too; I'd be so aggro right now if it was locked behind a months-long time gate / exorbitant dilithium gate.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    vestereng wrote: »
    This doesn't actually add anything to the game

    It's just paying for something that is currently free, thanks for that

    1) You won't have to constantly retrain your BOFFs. They'll have available abilities they can select from. You won't have to hit up a trainer to change the abilities they have.

    2) Hybrid BOFFs will be able to select various Specializations. You won't have to worry about having to collect multiple types of BOFFs for each of them.

    3) Are you a Tac looking for Eng/Sci BOFF training (or any mix of that)...rather than having to hunt somebody down or run a second account, you'll be able to buy them off the Exchange from folks that have crafted them. Aren't able to train your BOFFs in the higher ranked Specialization abilities? You can buy them off the Exchange from folks who can and have crafted them.

    4) Have BOFFs that can't be traded for training? Don't have to worry about that as you can purchase the books to train them from the Exchange from those that have crafted them.

    Nope, doesn't add anything to the game. :rolleyes:
  • mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So, we had something that was simple, worked fine, and required no Dil. Now we've got something needlessly complicated, we know will be bugged to hell, that does require Dilithium.
    Just stop Cryptic. Seriously. Stop.
    I've tried defending the game lately, but I think I'm over it at this point. The game is clearly moving in the wrong direction.

    As a "white knight" and "imbecile" for defending Cryptic from the hate they receive in the forums only last night.....

    I tend to agree with this comment. They should know only too well how pissed off everyone is right now and yet they add another way to do that. C'mon, seriously? I'm a fleet leader and am amazed at the generosity of my fleet members when it comes to dilithium....yet they now need even more?

    In addition, every time they add another way for them to get more money from us they add to the complexity of the game. Must I add up how much time I've spent explaining the convoluted tabs, windows, fleet projects, research, reputation, currencies, ships, etc, etc, etc...all in an attempt to get a few more bucks?

    It's getting to the point where I really don't care who is to blame over there....I usually just blame some nebulous bossman while everyone else just does what they are told...but they are beginning to all get blamed, at least by me.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    vestereng wrote: »
    All I need to know is when this launches so I can have everyone done with slotting abilites before then.
    Three weeks bro.
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