It's about having a new zen cost and dilithium cost for skills you might have otherwise had access to without having to respec multple times to "unlock" them, it's about yet another dilithium sink when there's entirely too many already.
There are no new skills for ZEN or dilithium. Captain training ability will look exactly same as it is now, only difference will be that instead taking someone else boff (you need extra BOff slot for that, and BOff mustn't be unique) and training it yourself, you will "craft" a manual for that player.
The only new cost will be crating PADDs. And still it will be rather small (max 1k per PADD I believe) id you want to craft it yourself, instead buying it from someone else.
Maybe learn how current system works first then compere it to what we will have.
The fuss is actually about it wiping the slate clean and starting over. It's about having a new zen cost and dilithium cost for skills you might have otherwise had access to without having to respec multple times to "unlock" them, it's about yet another dilithium sink when there's entirely too many already. That's what the fuss is about. Quit spending money on it and quit being apologists about it otherwise this game will go the way of Archeage, poor and illfated.
Call me when they do fix it, I'll be in my Garrison in Draenor.
I think the fuss is a lot about not knowing or understanding enough about how the system will actually work, and only seeing the negatives.
I don't know why you suddenly bring up needing to respec for something here.
The new system will allow people to give their BOFFs alll the BOFF related skills they could possibly know. You no longer need to hold several BOFFs for the same position just because you want a few particular powers swapped around or changed to another. (But you can still do that).
The new system will allow us to unlock Intel (and other Specializations) abilities on BOFFs that didn't orginally have that power.
The new system will allow us to trade powers between players, without needing to reserve empty BOFF slots. I still often hear in my fleet chats a question like "Can someone here train EPtW3?" - this question is no longer needed, you just head to the Exchange or the fleet inventory and can get what you want.
Some of that will cost Dilithium, but most of it will not, and most of what we could already easily do doesn't, and some of the features that make handling BOFF and BOFF abilities itself could turn out to be much more convenient and still cheap to do.
The only thing missing really is the ability to retrait BOFFs!
There are no new skills for ZEN or dilithium. Captain training ability will look exactly same as it is now, only difference will be that instead taking someone else boff (you need extra BOff slot for that, and BOff mustn't be unique) and training it yourself, you will "craft" a manual for that player.
The only new cost will be crating PADDs. And still it will be rather small (max 1k per PADD I believe) id you want to craft it yourself, instead buying it from someone else.
Maybe learn how current system works first then compere it to what we will have.
And this, nothing more for me too say in a reply..
Sounds like you're lumping in stuff that came before and after LoR with what actually came with LoR. Sounds like you're also considering the shuffling of the level requirements for some missions around as if they were new missions instead of just shuffled. Sounds like you're treating missions that already existed but were made crossfaction as if they were new missions as well.
Sounds like your trying to see something in my post that wasn't there. You seem to forget all the patrol missions that came with LoR AS WELL AS the new Romulan story missions. Again, if you look at the two expansions, and add in the NEW tutorial missions (and sorry, wasn't lumping any of the old pre-existing missions that they just gave access to for the KDF and RR AT ALL) - it's just a fact that overall LoR added MORE new story content than DR. (And further, no, I'm not llumpung 'New Romulus' in either as that came in under Season 7.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I'm not basing it solely on my experience, but common sense...
What you see as common sense, I see as lazy thinking and an attempt to rationalize your emotional response in a way that justifies your demand that the game cater more to you, based on your assumption that the way you feel is shared by the majority, and they further assumption that if in fact that your opinions are shared by the majority it means they are reasonable. I will readily admit that my reasoning is not "common sense" - because it's BETTER.
I am absolutely qualified to judge any threshold of tolerance I have for anything. And there is a generally accepted threshold for garbage content, which can be seen on any game review. If something is excessively grindy, it doesn't take long for people to let it be known. Again, use Google. Type in "Star Trek Online +grind" and look at the results.
And I have evidence, you just choose to dismiss it. My feelings are irrelevant, since I've no problem playing something else. I'm just making my concerns known, which I believe I have a right to do.
First, bolded the only word in there that really matters. You are qualified to speak for your preferences - nobody else's. The last little sentence here is just hugely ironic. Your only evidence IS your feelings and perceptions, which I am dismissing because, as you say, they are irrelevant. You say a bunch of people have left and are unhappy. I say I see a ton of random people in the game still, and my fleet has seen an upswing, not a downswing. You prefer your subjective perceptions, I prefer mine. Neither of us has the data to actually confirm who is correct, only Cryptic does, but given that they seem to be doubling down on the strategy you don't like there seems to be only two possibilities. Cryptic is impossibly incompetent, and you are going to be unhappy, and the game is doomed, or else Cryptic is competent, and while you might be unhappy with the direction the game is going, it's actually better for the health of the game - and you might wish to look into those alternatives you mentioned. There doesn't seem to be an endgame where burning down the forums in a rage over your subjective opinions makes sense.
I'm not sure how you are drawing lines in your head to make it seem like I'm saying completely different things.
Should Chevrolet make Viagra? No, I'm pretty sure they have enough ways of making money without doing that. Let's hope they stick to cars because I don't trust a car maker giving old men super happy fun hooker times.
It's okay, it's just that I'm ahead of you in terms of evaluating how a statement ultimately fits into the overall logic of a situation. It works like this:
You said "They already have enough ways to make money" in an attempt to delegitimize this new system. That only works if the implication is that the game can survive just fine without adding it, but if that assumption were true, than your claim that the game is dying and Cryptic is caught in a vicious cycle of desperate cash grabs doesn't seem to make sense.
Thus, regardless of how you phrase it, the combination of what you are saying has to boil down to "They are fine without doing this, and they are doing this because they've mismanaged the game and it's dying", which can only be rationalized by asserting that there exists some magical special snowflake level of monetization that the majority of players will accept, and that will also provide Cryptic with the optimal level of profit. I don't disagree that such a point might exist, but neither you nor I have anything close to the amount of data it would take to actually calculate that point with any reasonable level of certainty. The only people who have that data is Cryptic, and again - that becomes a choice - either you choose to believe them, in which case your claim that they are hurting the game is nonsense, regardless of your personal feelings (which we agreed are irrelevant), or else Cryptic is doomed and you should seek greener pastures elsewhere.
This entire paragraph is beyond ridiculous. I sincerely hope it's supposed to be a joke. If not, then, um, good for you, Sparky.
It's ridiculous that I don't think Cryptic has any kind of obligation to cater to either of our preferences, but rather simply an obligation to make money for their stockholders? That's just called reality. You might feel like it's a joke, and I would tend to agree, it's just that the joke is on all of us.
What you see as common sense, I see as lazy thinking and an attempt to rationalize your emotional response in a way that justifies your demand that the game cater more to you, based on your assumption that the way you feel is shared by the majority, and they further assumption that if in fact that your opinions are shared by the majority it means they are reasonable. I will readily admit that my reasoning is not "common sense" - because it's BETTER.
I like how you cut out the rest of that quote, which instantly nullifies everything you're saying. :rolleyes:
First, bolded the only word in there that really matters. You are qualified to speak for your preferences - nobody else's. The last little sentence here is just hugely ironic. Your only evidence IS your feelings and perceptions, which I am dismissing because, as you say, they are irrelevant. You say a bunch of people have left and are unhappy. I say I see a ton of random people in the game still, and my fleet has seen an upswing, not a downswing. You prefer your subjective perceptions, I prefer mine. Neither of us has the data to actually confirm who is correct, only Cryptic does, but given that they seem to be doubling down on the strategy you don't like there seems to be only two possibilities. Cryptic is impossibly incompetent, and you are going to be unhappy, and the game is doomed, or else Cryptic is competent, and while you might be unhappy with the direction the game is going, it's actually better for the health of the game - and you might wish to look into those alternatives you mentioned. There doesn't seem to be an endgame where burning down the forums in a rage over your subjective opinions makes sense.
I will repeat. Again.
I never said this will "kill the game." I am stating not only my opinion, but common sense, and my firsthand observations. I also do not play this game within a vacuum. There is much more complaining in-game than the CDF on the forums could handle without an aneurism. Just because you have some doe-eyed love thing going on for Cryptic, you don't need to jump on everything everyone disagrees with when it comes to them.
I have said people are leaving. You said it was a lie. It is not. This is not subjective. It is a fact that can be proven. Whether or not you say you see differently is absolutely irrelevant. People are leaving. I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around things happening that you can't see yourself, or fail to see on purpose. People talk. People complain. I see it. People leave. I see it. People stop spending money. I see it. Because you choose to not use this (because it's not metrics?), only makes it invalid to you.
And it is ridiculous to assume that those are the only two possibilities, unless one has very little critical thinking skills, or imagination.
You make a lot of assumptions, and then go nutty saying I'm making assumptions, which I'm not. Bravo!
I can show you "last login" times of people on my friend list and fleet. That is data. But, then you would have some other thing that makes no sense to try and say that it doesn't matter, even though that's what I said.
TL DR
People are leaving. This is not something you can dispute without being wrong. I don't dispute what you are claiming, because I have no proof. What I do have is proof of what I say.
How am I in any kind of rage? Another assumption.:rolleyes:
You said "They already have enough ways to make money" in an attempt to delegitimize this new system. That only works if the implication is that the game can survive just fine without adding it, but if that assumption were true, than your claim that the game is dying and Cryptic is caught in a vicious cycle of desperate cash grabs doesn't seem to make sense.
Or, you know, I said "They already have enough ways to make money" and I meant "they already have enough ways to make money." Funny how fact works.
Thus, regardless of how you phrase it, the combination of what you are saying has to boil down to
So, because you want me to be meaning something totally different than I'm saying, therefore, that thing that I didn't say MUST mean this other thing that I didn't say. Wow, good thing you're completely changing my meaning, intent, and actual words. That's not an annoying quality or anything.
"You really meant to say that SpongeBob Squarepants is the new Hulk. Therefore, you must mean that Iron Man is going to be a homosexual." See? I can do it too!
"They are fine without doing this, and they are doing this because they've mismanaged the game and it's dying", which can only be rationalized by asserting that there exists some magical special snowflake level of monetization that the majority of players will accept, and that will also provide Cryptic with the optimal level of profit. I don't disagree that such a point might exist, but neither you nor I have anything close to the amount of data it would take to actually calculate that point with any reasonable level of certainty. The only people who have that data is Cryptic, and again - that becomes a choice - either you choose to believe them, in which case your claim that they are hurting the game is nonsense, regardless of your personal feelings (which we agreed are irrelevant), or else Cryptic is doomed and you should seek greener pastures elsewhere.
I've neither the time nor inclination to even bother with the novel it would take to correct this.
It's ridiculous that I don't think Cryptic has any kind of obligation to cater to either of our preferences, but rather simply an obligation to make money for their stockholders? That's just called reality. You might feel like it's a joke, and I would tend to agree, it's just that the joke is on all of us.
No, it's ridiculous that you are saying any of these things in relation to what I said. Now that I see it's not a joke, I actually feel bad. You're doing an excellent job, and you should be proud, Sparky.
Forcing me to spend precious Dil to regain BOFF skills that I already had on my crew, that I had worked hard at to obtain the points needed? How peachy!
Like I said before, Cryptic may as well have a load screen that reads "This is Star Trek Online. F**K YOU!"
For a game based upon shows/movies where there is very little mention of money, one sure does need to "purchase" a lot of things.
:P I always thought when looking for weapons and consoles... I bet it cost Picard a lot to upgrade that big ship while the monolithic Republic he was employed by gave him little or nothing to do it with. Then I thought about him picking through debris looking for inferior warp cores that survived the destruction so he could race off to the local battery mart to sell them for energy credits but had to stop at various dilithium sources on the way to the store to dig for more kinds of money.
The only faction this entire method seems to fit is the Klingons who can tend to be more mercenary/privateer than military officer and have a habit of raiding outposts (which one would assume they loot for tech).
So, we had something that was simple, worked fine, and required no Dil. Now we've got something needlessly complicated, we know will be bugged to hell, that does require Dilithium.
Just stop Cryptic. Seriously. Stop.
I've tried defending the game lately, but I think I'm over it at this point. The game is clearly moving in the wrong direction.
Agreed. It's like the Devs are deliberately trying to poison the game so they can have an excuse to shut down the servers for good.
The PWE bigshots over in China sending over these orders to Cryptic sure must be a bunch or morons and a-holes to be imposing this. And it makes no sense either. Compared to the effeminate looking ripoffs of World of W*A*R*C*R*A*F*T* (HA HA HA! F U, PWE CENSORSHIP FILTER!), STO is one of the only real games they have worth playing. Or it WAS before they monkeywrenched everything last October.
:P I always thought when looking for weapons and consoles... I bet it cost Picard a lot to upgrade that big ship while the monolithic Republic he was employed by gave him little or nothing to do it with. Then I thought about him picking through debris looking for inferior warp cores that survived the destruction so he could race off to the local battery mart to sell them for energy credits but had to stop at various dilithium sources on the way to the store to dig for more kinds of money.
The only faction this entire method seems to fit is the Klingons who can tend to be more mercenary/privateer than military officer and have a habit of raiding outposts (which one would assume they loot for tech).
Actually.... We know that Geordi and Data were constantly tinkering with the ship to make it better. We know they had materials to work with, but it was never shown on screen where they came from.
Forcing me to spend precious Dil to regain BOFF skills that I already had on my crew, that I had worked hard at to obtain the points needed? How peachy!
Like I said before, Cryptic may as well have a load screen that reads "This is Star Trek Online. F**K YOU!"
Where the hell you find any info about that? :eek: You want lose any skill you already have, you will only get ability to learn other skills in the future.
Actually.... We know that Geordi and Data were constantly tinkering with the ship to make it better. We know they had materials to work with, but it was never shown on screen where they came from.
I remember once the original crew had to find dilithium to fix some crucial part of the warp system. The Next Gen team did hunt for android parts it seems. That is how "Nemesis" started. Geordi did seem to do a lot of R&D, yes, but it always seemed to me was taking what he had and making it better. This fits the new R&D system nicely but as you say, they never said where he got the materials to do it. I get most of mine from "scanning anomalies" either in missions or sending doffs out to the nearest whatever to do scientific research and bring back samples to test. These exist in both the series and the game, no argument there, so maybe the time off screen was the grind. (Not a smart aleck comment by the way, it's meant as funny).
I don't have the direct quote but Picard does say at length in "First Contact" to the sheer amount of titanium in the Enterprise that economics in this time are vastly different when the comment on "scrounging for enough titanium to make a cockpit" was uttered. It seemed to imply nothing is scrounged for. I do a lot of scrounging.
Again, this is totally off topic but... a little levity might help anyway.
Looking forward to the update, and not really sure what all the fuss in about tbh..
So long as these Training Manuals stay out of lockboxes and the lobi store, I don't really have a problem.
And there are some... OP powers from other events I'd love to see show up in lockboxes. Take Worf's lt level ability that gives a ship faw3, torp spread 3 with one button press. I would be after that like lawyer over social injustice....
This is something players have asked for. A way to train unique boffs and a way to get the rarer powers without searching the exchange boff by boff. It'll have a dilithium fee, but buying basic boffs has been dilithium feed for well over a year, so I don't see a problem.
I like how you cut out the rest of that quote, which instantly nullifies everything you're saying. :rolleyes:
I cut the rest of the quote because it doesn't matter. You are appealing to your sense of "common sense". I'm saying that is not a thing you should do. Common sense is functionally identical to "things I believe are true, but don't want to be bothered to prove (or can't prove), so I will appeal to the idea that it's reasonable because I believe enough other people agree with me to make it so". That is lazy thinking.
Or, you know, I said "They already have enough ways to make money" and I meant "they already have enough ways to make money." Funny how fact works.
So, because you want me to be meaning something totally different than I'm saying, therefore, that thing that I didn't say MUST mean this other thing that I didn't say. Wow, good thing you're completely changing my meaning, intent, and actual words. That's not an annoying quality or anything.
"You really meant to say that SpongeBob Squarepants is the new Hulk. Therefore, you must mean that Iron Man is going to be a homosexual." See? I can do it too!
So, my crime here was that I attempted to connect one of the things you said ("they have enough ways of making money") to your conclusion that this new system is clearly a bad idea, when instead you meant it as a wholly unrelated premise with no connection to the context of the thread? Or, put another way, instead of just repeating the literal words that you said, please explain how you intended those words to fit into the context of the conversation if it was not as a part of a broader argument that boils down to "They don't need to do this, and it's a bad idea because the game is already in trouble", because otherwise its clear that we are just going to keep talking past each other. I am attempting to show how the things you are saying are not internally consistent with each other as an exemplar of the way in which people, in my opinion, are content to feel first and think second, without critically examining if their feelings were justified in the first place. If my interpretation of how your claims fits together is wrong, please, let me know how you intended them to fit together. If your claim is that I am wrong to attempt to fit them together at all, then please explain why that is so.
I never said this will "kill the game." I am stating not only my opinion, but common sense, and my firsthand observations. I also do not play this game within a vacuum. There is much more complaining in-game than the CDF on the forums could handle without an aneurism. Just because you have some doe-eyed love thing going on for Cryptic, you don't need to jump on everything everyone disagrees with when it comes to them.
Your opinion, common sense, and your firsthand observations are all the same thing (or at least are inextricably linked). Common sense is subjective - even at the meta level of the concept of common sense having value itself. The ideas that you categorize as "common sense" are simply the things you choose to uncritically assume are true - how do we know negative press is hurting the game? It's "common sense", right? Except, if you actually examined that claim, you might find that it's not thatsimple.
Similarly, your observations are colored by your interpretations of those observations, as well as your inherent assumptions. Confirmation bias is a real thing - we can only process so much information at a time, so rather than look at the whole picture we find ourselves focusing on only those parts that support the point we are trying to make, while the rest fades into the background, like the moonwalking bear.
I have said people are leaving. You said it was a lie. It is not. This is not subjective. It is a fact that can be proven. Whether or not you say you see differently is absolutely irrelevant. People are leaving. I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around things happening that you can't see yourself, or fail to see on purpose. People talk. People complain. I see it. People leave. I see it. People stop spending money. I see it. Because you choose to not use this (because it's not metrics?), only makes it invalid to you.
And it is ridiculous to assume that those are the only two possibilities, unless one has very little critical thinking skills, or imagination.
You make a lot of assumptions, and then go nutty saying I'm making assumptions, which I'm not. Bravo!
I can show you "last login" times of people on my friend list and fleet. That is data. But, then you would have some other thing that makes no sense to try and say that it doesn't matter, even though that's what I said.
TL DR
People are leaving. This is not something you can dispute without being wrong. I don't dispute what you are claiming, because I have no proof. What I do have is proof of what I say.
How am I in any kind of rage? Another assumption.
It might be able to be proven, but not by data you have, nor any other data available to random forum goers. See above - everything you are using is subjective, and boils down to your opinion. You choose to believe your anecdotal evidence is better than mine - last login dates? I have like 150 friends, and the vast majority of them haven't logged in in like 2 years - many of them left during the great content drought when Atari was looking to sell Cryptic. By your standards, that means I have sufficient evidence to "prove" that a lack of content is the culprit in terms of driving people away, but, as we have already seen, you don't agree. I agree with you on that score - this kind of personal data might be suggestive to us, personally, but it doesn't constitute any kind of "proof" in a real sense. To be clear, I'm not saying that your data is a lie - I'm saying that it is insufficient to support the broader claims you are seeking to make, for exactly the same reasons my evidence is insufficient.
So where does that leave us? Neither of us have any evidence, which to me implies that the rational thing to do would be to withhold judgement until we do have evidence. Further, I am suggesting that if you are incapable of withholding judgement - that is, if you feel that this has crossed your personal threshold for what you will tolerate regardless of its actual effect on the game as a whole, then the logical thing to do is to go to greener pastures. At no point does it seem profitable to attempt to argue for anything broader than that.
I apologize for accusing you to be in a rage. Please replace rage with "frustration" or "grumpines", or "ungood feelings" or whatever else you feel is more appropriate. It is not the degree of negativity that I'm objecting to - it's the idea that it is reasonable to have rationally come to a negative (or really any kind of) conclusion at all. The status quo is that this system is coming. If you wish to rationally argue that changing this is a good idea, you will need stronger evidence than you are capable of presenting.
No, it's ridiculous that you are saying any of these things in relation to what I said. Now that I see it's not a joke, I actually feel bad. You're doing an excellent job, and you should be proud, Sparky.
Why is it ridiculous? Are you not making the claim that you have expectations of quality and fun from the game? Sure seems like you are. I'm pointing out that in actual fact, saying "it's not fun" is, again, not sufficient to automatically support your position, because a) subjective and b) not directly relevant. The raison d'etre for Cryptic is not actually to entertain you. It's to make money. If you aren't having fun, that's too bad - but if the company is making money, there's no reason to expect them to change.
They can replicate the titanium. Industrial replicators.
They only need to harness the energy of the sun and other fusion to power all for free.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I remember once the original crew had to find dilithium to fix some crucial part of the warp system. The Next Gen team did hunt for android parts it seems. That is how "Nemesis" started. Geordi did seem to do a lot of R&D, yes, but it always seemed to me was taking what he had and making it better. This fits the new R&D system nicely but as you say, they never said where he got the materials to do it. I get most of mine from "scanning anomalies" either in missions or sending doffs out to the nearest whatever to do scientific research and bring back samples to test. These exist in both the series and the game, no argument there, so maybe the time off screen was the grind. (Not a smart aleck comment by the way, it's meant as funny).
I don't have the direct quote but Picard does say at length in "First Contact" to the sheer amount of titanium in the Enterprise that economics in this time are vastly different when the comment on "scrounging for enough titanium to make a cockpit" was uttered. It seemed to imply nothing is scrounged for. I do a lot of scrounging.
Again, this is totally off topic but... a little levity might help anyway.
I took his "scrounging for Titanium" comment to meant that the Federation had ample supplies of it. I took it to mean that in the Federation certain materials that are considered rare by modern standards are much easier to acquire. They constantly show new things that don't exist IRL that are considered at least somewhat difficult to find.
They currently charge 150ec to change a boff skill.
They charge 75dil to make a mk2 weapon.
There are plenty of trivial costs in the game.
And most of those trivial costs are voluntary and you don't have to pay them. If you want something faster then you simply pay additional fee for hurry.
My post a while back that talked about how they were altering the availability of dilithum, (lowering it) also mentioned that we'd see more systems introduced that require refined dilithium. Since we are capped on that too, most players will resort to the exchange. Of which, they'll buy zen in order to buy dilithium. - Hence more sales for Cryptic.
If and when they implement that ordnance model mentioned as "a game enhancement" where players have to spend dilthium/energy credits to "resupply" weapon component charges, torpedoes, deuterium, anti-matter, dilithium crystals, food supplies for their ships, raw matter, and a host of other things each day, will be a game ender IMHO. I hope they realize that. But doubt they will.
What happened to those unique forum ranks I paid for?
Well, the dil aside its a nice revamp. Now you can train bound BOs with abilities not from your class. That is indeed something that should have happened a long time ago.
that took the words right out of my mouth. much needed revamp but i am really done whit dil creeping in literally every game system.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
Comments
Sorry but where Devs mention anything about wipe?
There are no new skills for ZEN or dilithium. Captain training ability will look exactly same as it is now, only difference will be that instead taking someone else boff (you need extra BOff slot for that, and BOff mustn't be unique) and training it yourself, you will "craft" a manual for that player.
The only new cost will be crating PADDs. And still it will be rather small (max 1k per PADD I believe) id you want to craft it yourself, instead buying it from someone else.
Maybe learn how current system works first then compere it to what we will have.
and bigger and bigger and bigger.... look over here, its shiny.... please don't pay attention to whats broken!
See below...
This.
And this, nothing more for me too say in a reply..
Sounds like your trying to see something in my post that wasn't there. You seem to forget all the patrol missions that came with LoR AS WELL AS the new Romulan story missions. Again, if you look at the two expansions, and add in the NEW tutorial missions (and sorry, wasn't lumping any of the old pre-existing missions that they just gave access to for the KDF and RR AT ALL) - it's just a fact that overall LoR added MORE new story content than DR. (And further, no, I'm not llumpung 'New Romulus' in either as that came in under Season 7.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
What you see as common sense, I see as lazy thinking and an attempt to rationalize your emotional response in a way that justifies your demand that the game cater more to you, based on your assumption that the way you feel is shared by the majority, and they further assumption that if in fact that your opinions are shared by the majority it means they are reasonable. I will readily admit that my reasoning is not "common sense" - because it's BETTER.
First, bolded the only word in there that really matters. You are qualified to speak for your preferences - nobody else's. The last little sentence here is just hugely ironic. Your only evidence IS your feelings and perceptions, which I am dismissing because, as you say, they are irrelevant. You say a bunch of people have left and are unhappy. I say I see a ton of random people in the game still, and my fleet has seen an upswing, not a downswing. You prefer your subjective perceptions, I prefer mine. Neither of us has the data to actually confirm who is correct, only Cryptic does, but given that they seem to be doubling down on the strategy you don't like there seems to be only two possibilities. Cryptic is impossibly incompetent, and you are going to be unhappy, and the game is doomed, or else Cryptic is competent, and while you might be unhappy with the direction the game is going, it's actually better for the health of the game - and you might wish to look into those alternatives you mentioned. There doesn't seem to be an endgame where burning down the forums in a rage over your subjective opinions makes sense.
It's okay, it's just that I'm ahead of you in terms of evaluating how a statement ultimately fits into the overall logic of a situation. It works like this:
You said "They already have enough ways to make money" in an attempt to delegitimize this new system. That only works if the implication is that the game can survive just fine without adding it, but if that assumption were true, than your claim that the game is dying and Cryptic is caught in a vicious cycle of desperate cash grabs doesn't seem to make sense.
Thus, regardless of how you phrase it, the combination of what you are saying has to boil down to "They are fine without doing this, and they are doing this because they've mismanaged the game and it's dying", which can only be rationalized by asserting that there exists some magical special snowflake level of monetization that the majority of players will accept, and that will also provide Cryptic with the optimal level of profit. I don't disagree that such a point might exist, but neither you nor I have anything close to the amount of data it would take to actually calculate that point with any reasonable level of certainty. The only people who have that data is Cryptic, and again - that becomes a choice - either you choose to believe them, in which case your claim that they are hurting the game is nonsense, regardless of your personal feelings (which we agreed are irrelevant), or else Cryptic is doomed and you should seek greener pastures elsewhere.
It's ridiculous that I don't think Cryptic has any kind of obligation to cater to either of our preferences, but rather simply an obligation to make money for their stockholders? That's just called reality. You might feel like it's a joke, and I would tend to agree, it's just that the joke is on all of us.
I have very little faith in the new system being reliable or affordable for months after release if ever.
Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised though.
I like how you cut out the rest of that quote, which instantly nullifies everything you're saying. :rolleyes:
I will repeat. Again.
I never said this will "kill the game." I am stating not only my opinion, but common sense, and my firsthand observations. I also do not play this game within a vacuum. There is much more complaining in-game than the CDF on the forums could handle without an aneurism. Just because you have some doe-eyed love thing going on for Cryptic, you don't need to jump on everything everyone disagrees with when it comes to them.
I have said people are leaving. You said it was a lie. It is not. This is not subjective. It is a fact that can be proven. Whether or not you say you see differently is absolutely irrelevant. People are leaving. I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around things happening that you can't see yourself, or fail to see on purpose. People talk. People complain. I see it. People leave. I see it. People stop spending money. I see it. Because you choose to not use this (because it's not metrics?), only makes it invalid to you.
And it is ridiculous to assume that those are the only two possibilities, unless one has very little critical thinking skills, or imagination.
You make a lot of assumptions, and then go nutty saying I'm making assumptions, which I'm not. Bravo!
I can show you "last login" times of people on my friend list and fleet. That is data. But, then you would have some other thing that makes no sense to try and say that it doesn't matter, even though that's what I said.
TL DR
People are leaving. This is not something you can dispute without being wrong. I don't dispute what you are claiming, because I have no proof. What I do have is proof of what I say.
How am I in any kind of rage? Another assumption.:rolleyes:
If by that you mean that you're making assumptions that you would like to devalue, so you put words into my mouth, you're correct. /golf clap
Or, you know, I said "They already have enough ways to make money" and I meant "they already have enough ways to make money." Funny how fact works.
So, because you want me to be meaning something totally different than I'm saying, therefore, that thing that I didn't say MUST mean this other thing that I didn't say. Wow, good thing you're completely changing my meaning, intent, and actual words. That's not an annoying quality or anything.
"You really meant to say that SpongeBob Squarepants is the new Hulk. Therefore, you must mean that Iron Man is going to be a homosexual." See? I can do it too!
I've neither the time nor inclination to even bother with the novel it would take to correct this.
No, it's ridiculous that you are saying any of these things in relation to what I said. Now that I see it's not a joke, I actually feel bad. You're doing an excellent job, and you should be proud, Sparky.
My character Tsin'xing
Forcing me to spend precious Dil to regain BOFF skills that I already had on my crew, that I had worked hard at to obtain the points needed? How peachy!
Like I said before, Cryptic may as well have a load screen that reads "This is Star Trek Online. F**K YOU!"
:P I always thought when looking for weapons and consoles... I bet it cost Picard a lot to upgrade that big ship while the monolithic Republic he was employed by gave him little or nothing to do it with. Then I thought about him picking through debris looking for inferior warp cores that survived the destruction so he could race off to the local battery mart to sell them for energy credits but had to stop at various dilithium sources on the way to the store to dig for more kinds of money.
The only faction this entire method seems to fit is the Klingons who can tend to be more mercenary/privateer than military officer and have a habit of raiding outposts (which one would assume they loot for tech).
Agreed. It's like the Devs are deliberately trying to poison the game so they can have an excuse to shut down the servers for good.
The PWE bigshots over in China sending over these orders to Cryptic sure must be a bunch or morons and a-holes to be imposing this. And it makes no sense either. Compared to the effeminate looking ripoffs of World of W*A*R*C*R*A*F*T* (HA HA HA! F U, PWE CENSORSHIP FILTER!), STO is one of the only real games they have worth playing. Or it WAS before they monkeywrenched everything last October.
My character Tsin'xing
Where the hell you find any info about that? :eek: You want lose any skill you already have, you will only get ability to learn other skills in the future.
I remember once the original crew had to find dilithium to fix some crucial part of the warp system. The Next Gen team did hunt for android parts it seems. That is how "Nemesis" started. Geordi did seem to do a lot of R&D, yes, but it always seemed to me was taking what he had and making it better. This fits the new R&D system nicely but as you say, they never said where he got the materials to do it. I get most of mine from "scanning anomalies" either in missions or sending doffs out to the nearest whatever to do scientific research and bring back samples to test. These exist in both the series and the game, no argument there, so maybe the time off screen was the grind.
I don't have the direct quote but Picard does say at length in "First Contact" to the sheer amount of titanium in the Enterprise that economics in this time are vastly different when the comment on "scrounging for enough titanium to make a cockpit" was uttered. It seemed to imply nothing is scrounged for. I do a lot of scrounging.
Again, this is totally off topic but... a little levity might help anyway.
And there are some... OP powers from other events I'd love to see show up in lockboxes. Take Worf's lt level ability that gives a ship faw3, torp spread 3 with one button press. I would be after that like lawyer over social injustice....
This is something players have asked for. A way to train unique boffs and a way to get the rarer powers without searching the exchange boff by boff. It'll have a dilithium fee, but buying basic boffs has been dilithium feed for well over a year, so I don't see a problem.
I cut the rest of the quote because it doesn't matter. You are appealing to your sense of "common sense". I'm saying that is not a thing you should do. Common sense is functionally identical to "things I believe are true, but don't want to be bothered to prove (or can't prove), so I will appeal to the idea that it's reasonable because I believe enough other people agree with me to make it so". That is lazy thinking.
So, my crime here was that I attempted to connect one of the things you said ("they have enough ways of making money") to your conclusion that this new system is clearly a bad idea, when instead you meant it as a wholly unrelated premise with no connection to the context of the thread? Or, put another way, instead of just repeating the literal words that you said, please explain how you intended those words to fit into the context of the conversation if it was not as a part of a broader argument that boils down to "They don't need to do this, and it's a bad idea because the game is already in trouble", because otherwise its clear that we are just going to keep talking past each other. I am attempting to show how the things you are saying are not internally consistent with each other as an exemplar of the way in which people, in my opinion, are content to feel first and think second, without critically examining if their feelings were justified in the first place. If my interpretation of how your claims fits together is wrong, please, let me know how you intended them to fit together. If your claim is that I am wrong to attempt to fit them together at all, then please explain why that is so.
Your opinion, common sense, and your firsthand observations are all the same thing (or at least are inextricably linked). Common sense is subjective - even at the meta level of the concept of common sense having value itself. The ideas that you categorize as "common sense" are simply the things you choose to uncritically assume are true - how do we know negative press is hurting the game? It's "common sense", right? Except, if you actually examined that claim, you might find that it's not that simple.
Similarly, your observations are colored by your interpretations of those observations, as well as your inherent assumptions. Confirmation bias is a real thing - we can only process so much information at a time, so rather than look at the whole picture we find ourselves focusing on only those parts that support the point we are trying to make, while the rest fades into the background, like the moonwalking bear.
It might be able to be proven, but not by data you have, nor any other data available to random forum goers. See above - everything you are using is subjective, and boils down to your opinion. You choose to believe your anecdotal evidence is better than mine - last login dates? I have like 150 friends, and the vast majority of them haven't logged in in like 2 years - many of them left during the great content drought when Atari was looking to sell Cryptic. By your standards, that means I have sufficient evidence to "prove" that a lack of content is the culprit in terms of driving people away, but, as we have already seen, you don't agree. I agree with you on that score - this kind of personal data might be suggestive to us, personally, but it doesn't constitute any kind of "proof" in a real sense. To be clear, I'm not saying that your data is a lie - I'm saying that it is insufficient to support the broader claims you are seeking to make, for exactly the same reasons my evidence is insufficient.
So where does that leave us? Neither of us have any evidence, which to me implies that the rational thing to do would be to withhold judgement until we do have evidence. Further, I am suggesting that if you are incapable of withholding judgement - that is, if you feel that this has crossed your personal threshold for what you will tolerate regardless of its actual effect on the game as a whole, then the logical thing to do is to go to greener pastures. At no point does it seem profitable to attempt to argue for anything broader than that.
I apologize for accusing you to be in a rage. Please replace rage with "frustration" or "grumpines", or "ungood feelings" or whatever else you feel is more appropriate. It is not the degree of negativity that I'm objecting to - it's the idea that it is reasonable to have rationally come to a negative (or really any kind of) conclusion at all. The status quo is that this system is coming. If you wish to rationally argue that changing this is a good idea, you will need stronger evidence than you are capable of presenting.
Why is it ridiculous? Are you not making the claim that you have expectations of quality and fun from the game? Sure seems like you are. I'm pointing out that in actual fact, saying "it's not fun" is, again, not sufficient to automatically support your position, because a) subjective and b) not directly relevant. The raison d'etre for Cryptic is not actually to entertain you. It's to make money. If you aren't having fun, that's too bad - but if the company is making money, there's no reason to expect them to change.
They only need to harness the energy of the sun and other fusion to power all for free.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
My character Tsin'xing
And most of those trivial costs are voluntary and you don't have to pay them. If you want something faster then you simply pay additional fee for hurry.
There's a dilithium cost to crafting mk ii weapons?
If you use the "Finish Now" button, yes.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My post a while back that talked about how they were altering the availability of dilithum, (lowering it) also mentioned that we'd see more systems introduced that require refined dilithium. Since we are capped on that too, most players will resort to the exchange. Of which, they'll buy zen in order to buy dilithium. - Hence more sales for Cryptic.
If and when they implement that ordnance model mentioned as "a game enhancement" where players have to spend dilthium/energy credits to "resupply" weapon component charges, torpedoes, deuterium, anti-matter, dilithium crystals, food supplies for their ships, raw matter, and a host of other things each day, will be a game ender IMHO. I hope they realize that. But doubt they will.
If you use the "Finish now", for a MK 2, you need to learn patience... BADLY..
that took the words right out of my mouth. much needed revamp but i am really done whit dil creeping in literally every game system.
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.