But I think people that spend money to get Zen or Dilithium or even invest time on helping cancer cells grow despite their better knowledge should lose the right to complain about cancer. Especially on the official Cancer forums.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Might be growing, but are these new players staying? I've convinced a few people to try out the game recently, they all got to around the 40s and quit playing, one friend told me that the game was too complicated and seemed like an endless expensive grindfest. They all put in $0 into the game, growth doesn't always equal out to health.
ill probably regret even making a statement in here because it appears to me that if your not a reg forum poster or in the "elite" group of self proclaimed reps of playerbase, then your wrong and have no business being in here. But i have a question, why is it that every time there is a debate about the stability of the game or discussion about its success, the number one response seems to be the ques are empty.
Isn't there other things to do in the game? Wasn't that what everyone originally asked for? The way i see it the ques are empty because they are harder to do and if u want to get the optionals and rewards then its best to go in with a ready team. therefore you wont show in the ques. A ques are waiting line, as a five man team going into a 5 man team mission u dont have to wait in line.
And yes i am new to the game only being playing since July and i love it and i enjoy it sorry if that's offensive to anyone.
Is the game growing? Yes, it is. It's growing more and more tedious.
Is the game healthy? Yes, it is. At least compared to Champions Online.
I saw the writing on the wall back with the crafting update. It became much clearer after hearing about the T6 ships from the Las Vegas convention. It ran me over like a Mack truck going 100 MPH in a school zone when Delta Rising hit Holodeck. Since then, it's been backing up and running me over again ever few days, just for kicks apparently.
Now Cryptic will be revamping the Bridge Officer training system to make it more of a cash grab. I hear that big rig backing up again, but at this point, I can't feel anything anymore.
Except apathy.
I want the game to grow and be healthy. I want the game around for years to come.
However, seeing the direction the game has taken in 2014, I do not see a bright future ahead for the game. Cryptic and Perfect world may be making more money here lately, but I don't see that lasting for much longer.
The actual STORY behind Delta Rising was good, some of the best writing in the game. Unfortunately, the leveling progression from 50-60 is so poorly done and mishandled that, in my opinion, players have to spend so much time AWAY from the DR content in order to level to be ABLE to continue the DR content, that it simply breaks things up too much and they lose interest.
I got my first character from lvl 54-60 playing the DR content, and even starting it so late I had to grind to get to the next level in order to continue the story. By the time I hit 60, which was not even in the DR content, I'd pretty much decided that any future characters I take from 50-60 would not bother with the DR content, simply because there is not enough of it to level from 50-60. Being forced to run filler content to continue leveling between missions is just not FUN.
So congrats to Cryptic on making a load of money and for getting a lot of praise for the story content you released with Delta Rising.
As for the rest of it, meh.
Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.
ill probably regret even making a statement in here because it appears to me that if your not a reg forum poster or in the "elite" group of self proclaimed reps of playerbase, then your wrong and have no business being in here. But i have a question, why is it that every time there is a debate about the stability of the game or discussion about its success, the number one response seems to be the ques are empty.
Isn't there other things to do in the game? Wasn't that what everyone originally asked for? The way i see it the ques are empty because they are harder to do and if u want to get the optionals and rewards then its best to go in with a ready team. therefore you wont show in the ques. A ques are waiting line, as a five man team going into a 5 man team mission u dont have to wait in line.
And yes i am new to the game only being playing since July and i love it and i enjoy it sorry if that's offensive to anyone.
Not offended. Happy you are having fun.
While people wanted more to do, people also didn't want to loose what they were doing too.
As for the queues, Cryptic made them important by making them the primary source for purple mats in the game. For crafters, the new way to play, this means you have to have active and successful queues to get them. Current stat is that unless you are in a massive and active fleet, your are SOL for getting into a lot of the queues because there is not visibly reported activity in those queues. And if you are a casual/solo player your options get even smaller. I am in that last catagory.
Before DR, I knew that when I logged in, I would be able to join any queue and run it during my available playtime. I also knew that more often than not, the PUG group would complete the Elite STF and get our reward. This allowed me to play as I wanted to at any time. And differently from Alt to Alt. Since DR, the NPC have had the HP Bags inflated to be beyond what players can hope to achieve, failure option put that can make one player kill it for all, and dil requirements to get the gear to be an effective PUGer for Advance to have increased. All in all, it has meant that my limited playtime actually is a detriment to me participating in any queues, because I don't have the time to upgrade the gear, grind the dil needed, and find players willing to take on the challange of probably losing in an advanced STF once an hour(or night as is my case) to figure out how to beat the scenario. especially when they have created ways for people to pay money to bypass these roadblocks. Which leaves the people with the means to pay standing in the dust wondering why they even try anymore.
I don't have the luxury of creating five man teams, my fleet is not online when I am. And because I play in a limited fashion, it takes me days and weeks to upgrade gear to XIV VR. I am fine with slow progress. But I am unhappy that I can not progress in crafting because the mats are tucked behind a paywall or dead queue.
The was enjoyable, playable, and possible to progress in as a solo player before they brought out DR and nerfed the experiance for the casual/solo player. Now I just make runs at CC Advanced to collect what I can because it's the only reliably active queue when I log on. Rare occasions I get something else. But that's way to far between events to make me happy.
This why people point to the queues, they were a very active thing prior to DR. But they died almost immediately afterwards because the rewards didn't match the pain of the experiance afterwards.
All MMOS have grind. It takes about 2 min to finish Argala Normal with approx 10-15k xp. So if I convert your number of posts from 5 mins per post of 904 total posts that would equate to 226 level of specializations. It seems to me you prefer to grind in the forums than grind in game.
First, there is grind, and then there is overgrind; STO went from grind to overgrind.
Second, it doesn't take 5 mins to post.
Third, posting on forums =/= repeating the same mission for an eternity.
First, there is grind, and then there is overgrind; STO went from grind to overgrind.
Second, it doesn't take 5 mins to post.
Third, posting on forums =/= repeating the same mission for an eternity.
why is it that every time there is a debate about the stability of the game or discussion about its success, the number one response seems to be the ques are empty.
Isn't there other things to do in the game? Wasn't that what everyone originally asked for? The way i see it the ques are empty because they are harder to do and if u want to get the optionals and rewards then its best to go in with a ready team. therefore you wont show in the ques. A ques are waiting line, as a five man team going into a 5 man team mission u dont have to wait in line.
And yes i am new to the game only being playing since July and i love it and i enjoy it sorry if that's offensive to anyone.
The queues are an indicator of how many active players are ingame and signing up to play. While it's hardly a comprehensive measurement, it's the most readily available one. Players from half a year back can notice that queues are now not popping as often as they did back then, and some queues can't even take off anymore.
There are other things to do in the game, such as leveling, crafting, PvP, Foundry, socializing, etc. But a lot of the activities that were so popular in previous years no longer hold appeal or don't have sufficient interest. PvP is broken because of DR (not gonna sugar coat that. Intel powers frakked up PvP big-time). Foundry is in worse shape than two years ago. Drozana is but an empty shell of its former, pre-renovation self. And players are leaving by the droves because endless grinds and dil sinks don't appeal to them anymore.
There are private queues, but again, they suffer the same fate as the rest of the game. Appeal is dwindling, and players are leaving.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
And yes i am new to the game only being playing since July and i love it and i enjoy it sorry if that's offensive to anyone.
It's not offensive, but it does illustrate a good point.
Much of the grief around DR is coming from long-term players, and is rooted in dislocated expectations. I am, or have been, one of those individuals. The nub of the issue is that we'd got used to occupying a particular place in terms of STO's "pecking order" - in terms of how maxxed-out our characters were - which has now been thrown into utter turmoil because of the skyrocketing level / gear / specialisation caps.
What is ironic is how much of this is down to how easy some stuff had got. It took me 6 months to get my first character to L50 (in early 2011) because I was trying everything out along the way. My next took 3 months. It wasn't until August 2012 that my initial, "token fed" got brought up to being a geared L50. On that basis, the fact that it will take me 6 months to clear the initial specialisation system should not be an issue - but I'd got used to a game environment in which I could get two alts from zero to max-geared L50 in a month each .
For a relative newcomer such as yourself, this is not an issue - it's just how the game is. A good sanity check for the old hands, I think...
It's not offensive, but it does illustrate a good point.
Much of the grief around DR is coming from long-term players, and is rooted in dislocated expectations. I am, or have been, one of those individuals. The nub of the issue is that we'd got used to occupying a particular place in terms of STO's "pecking order" - in terms of how maxxed-out our characters were - which has now been thrown into utter turmoil because of the skyrocketing level / gear / specialisation caps.
Nah I dunno, it might just mean he hasn't even experienced the full impact of DR yet ...
... dunno if he is LvL 60 yet ... but the biggest DR "Fans" seem to be people, which are still Level 52-54 telling others that XP & Leveling is just fine ... which is quite ironic ...
PS : Tried another Toon after DR, had fun till LvL ~55 (after that you're basically playing a different game)
Isn't there other things to do in the game?Wasn't that what everyone originally asked for?
Once you've done all Story Content ~1-3 Times ... nope, not really ... of course there is repeating Patrols now, but imho you'll get bored pretty fast repeating them ...
The only "other" Stuff would be :
- Foundry (granted that's probably still my Nr.1, but good Missions are not in endless supply)
- Doffing (can be fun, but basically Farmville in Space)
- Crafting (see above)
- Events (from time to time)
-> PVE Queues were the thing that kept this game going (at least for me) ... I'm not doing endless Patrols instead, so now I'll have to wait for the next Story Content (aka "see you in ~6months") ... if there is anything else to do, please tell me ...
And no, since the Forum - people are a "minority", it can't be what "everybody" asked for ... even if it would've been the only thing in the Forums pre-DR ... and I don't think it was ...
It's pretty funny sometimes : If you're an "evil Forum-Whiner" you're a minority (everyone else is in-game having fun etc), but if you whine about PVE Queues you're suddenly "everybody & asked for it" (sounds like a majority, to me) -> It can't be both ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Nah I dunno, it might just mean he hasn't even experienced the full impact of DR yet ...
... dunno if he is LvL 60 yet ... but the biggest DR "Fans" seem to be people which are still Level 52-54 telling others that XP & Leveling is just fine ... which is quite ironic ...
PS : Tried another Toon after DR, had fun till LvL ~55
I noticed that before. People were coming on here, saying leveling was awesome and they could do it just from Doffing. Then when they revealed they were level 52 or in one case, not even level 50 yet, they were laughed at and they went away.
If anything having materials in the queues is an argument to kill the queues - so you don't give anything away for free.
Empty queues are not the problem you think they are.
We don't have to have 1 single person in the queues...
Displacement of progression takes place all the time and so all it comes down to is, are the whales willing to do 800 patrol missions for the voyager story arc?
Yes they are, well then it's as simple as mass production of passive specialization points with no animations (no work), and then turn the grinding volume up to extreme.
From their perspective it's also a nice way to motivate you to finally play their story missions - over and over and over forever.
The patrol missions are actually the best content ever and the players love it, from a certain perspective.
But so there isn't any reason why all progression from now on can't be patrol grinding for spec points.
From their perspective nothing has ever been even remotely as profitable as DR, why not duplicate it
/edit
ps. the thing being we only need the non-whales on the server in so far as the whales need them.
Whales playing single player patrol grinding now queues are not needed, neither is the players
Actually, PerfectWorld is about to become a privatized company. After one of the executives buys out the company, PerfectWorld may be merged with Shanda. According to a recent report, PerfectWorld's stocks are falling due to possible accounting irregularities. Many Chinese based companies have been forced out of the NYSE, for they have been caught 'cooking the books'.
I could be way off on this but here's my suspicion behind:
- The accounting irregularities (Also keep in mind that Chinese accounting standards are different, making accidents in conversion possible)
- The voluntary de-listing
- Chinese companies in some cases re-listing on Chinese exchanges
- Complaints from Chinese companies about being undervalued, which seem to precipate some of the accounting irregularities, re-listing on Chinese exchanges, and stock buybacks
Okay. You ready?
On the U.S. exchanges, investors expect companies to beat targets. If you don't outperform targets, you get dumped. Additionally, investors tend to get very managerially hands on and tend to see themselves to some extent as "experts in all industries" and will threaten to manipulate your stock price down if you don't do what they want. (In PWE's case, I think investors wanted them to ditch PC and go mobile, despite PWE being fairly good at PC gaming development and fairly weak at mobile.)
From the Chinese perspective, I think, company targets should a maximum, not a minimum. An earnings target is a goal to strive for and not something you're comfortable setting with the intent of surpassing. The target is "absolute best case" as far as you can imagine. You expect to fall short and don't expect for that to negatively influence stock price. Also, distance to power and cultural respect for expertise probably means that you don't expect investors to dictate company strategy as overtly and you expect them to hold stock longer.
And I SUSPECT (this is more a sociological guesstimate) that some of what you see in the U.S. and Chinese economies does boil down to stockholder behavior.
Short term investors who dictate strategy in the U.S.:
- Force certain types of innovation, creating value. Companies have to act fast and only the sharpest survive.
- Overlook niche strategies and long term value, destroying value by tanking stocks unfairly.
- The frequency of trade may result in a more powerful economy but the trading fees tend to eat up a lot of the efficiency there, meaning we have a powerful economy but much of that power is increasingly funneled away from both investors and companies listed on the market, towards brokers and consultants.
The U.S. stock market turns stock about 20% more frequently than the Chinese market does.
If anything having materials in the queues is an argument to kill the queues - so you don't give anything away for free.
Empty queues are not the problem you think they are.
We don't have to have 1 single person in the queues...
Displacement of progression takes place all the time and so all it comes down to is, are the whales willing to do 800 patrol missions for the voyager story arc?
Yes they are, well then it's as simple as mass production of passive specialization points with no animations (no work), and then turn the grinding volume up to extreme.
From their perspective it's also a nice way to motivate you to finally play their story missions - over and over and over forever.
The patrol missions are actually the best content ever and the players love it, from a certain perspective.
But so there isn't any reason why all progression from now on can't be patrol grinding for spec points.
From their perspective nothing has ever been even remotely as profitable as DR, why not duplicate it
/edit
ps. the thing being we only need the non-whales on the server in so far as the whales need them.
Whales playing single player patrol grinding now queues are not needed, neither is the players
I'm level 57 (soon 58), and haven't even touched Argala... only doff missions, and building stuff and some STF's, yes it takes some time, but I play at least 2 to 3 hours a day, don't need to go faster.
Actually, I haven't done ANY DR mission with that char, I'll take them when I'm level 60, and already purchased 2 additional ships, "grinding" for a month, all the freebies from the WW, and so on...
People who "WAN IT NAW", usually complains.. I'm fine with the level progression, as progression is not everything in this game (never done the DPS race nor the rarity upgrade race), I play because I relax myself in this game, and because I do stf's and some missions with my family
I noticed that before. People were coming on here, saying leveling was awesome and they could do it just from Doffing. Then when they revealed they were level 52 or in one case, not even level 50 yet, they were laughed at and they went away.
Funny funny stuff.
It was dramatically different before the November 20th patch.
I made it from 50-54 replaying the Klingon and Romulan fronts and turning in 20 DOff assignments. DOff leveling did appear to be quite healthy.
From that point on, I was able to play DR missions but I did have to stop and do 2-3 queued events per level. I think I did 2 of the patrols twice. This got me to 59.
59-60 was more painful but didn't bug me much.
After that, I was getting 1 spec level a week from DOffing and queued missions. Not spectacular progress but it was okay and it kept me logging in daily.
After the Nov. 20th patch, I could no longer see my XP bar move from turning in 20 DOffing assignments. I could no longer see queued events contribute a visible chunk of XP. It was at that point that that I got very disenfranchised.
I'm level 57 (soon 58), and haven't even touched Argala... only doff missions, and building stuff and some STF's, yes it takes some time, but I play at least 2 to 3 hours a day, don't need to go faster.
Actually, I haven't done ANY DR mission with that char, I'll take them when I'm level 60, and already purchased 2 additional ships, "grinding" for a month, all the freebies from the WW, and so on...
People who "WAN IT NAW", usually complains.. I'm fine with the level progression, as progression is not everything in this game (never done the DPS race nor the rarity upgrade race), I play because I relax myself in this game, and because I do stf's and some missions with my family
The issue I think with patrols is less that you NEED them for leveling (though I think leveling shouldn't require any repetition).
It's that they're the only content which moves your XP bar fast enough to feel like you're making specialization progress at 60. The only content.
While leveling, you're still getting better XP off of initial playthroughs of missions. Your XP requirement per level is also lower.
Every specialization point requires the same skillpoint gain as 59-60 and the ONLY meaningful source is Delta Quadrant patrols, which you must complete thousands of. And if you want to do it before the next specialization system comes out, you're looking at a lifestyle of thousands of hours of playing the same 5 or so patrols a year just to have a "complete" character, which, incidentally, is the BASELINE for PvP.
A core premise of the game up until the recent regime changes was choice, freedom, being creative.
Which is actually the defintion of a game when you think about it.
Everytime they've nerfed a feature or straight up deleted them to control the players they are also limiting the gameplay.
You could be any career you wanted, make hybrid boats using whatever abilities you wanted - you were free to play around.
Power creep sure but you can keep the game for casuals and still have elite maps both at the same time.
We didn't HAVE to kill the queues and the entire premise of a open game with freedom to add harder maps.
We also didn't have to nerf the dil, nerf the marks and nerf the EC.
Just like we didn't have to nerf exp and ask people to play 800 patrol missions for a bunch of passives that essentially won't get you close to t6.
I actually always thought it was a strength that you could take your favorite ship into eSTF not a weakness.
When you turn over the control to the developers it won't just be power creep but it's going to be power creep for milking.
For example 5 million dil for text upgrades to your weapons that are mandatory.
When STF was what it was you could stop or even never begin to spend or farm when you wanted and still just play.
Now, there is an entry fee @ 5 million per character for PERMISSION to play the game (plus the 10 levels from 50 to 60)
I am saying that didn't add anything to the game, that ruined parts only, nothing more.
It took away gameplay and put money into the developers hands because whales.
On general principle alone developers should have as little influence as possible but seeing how these here people try to battery hens commandeer, it quickly becomes obvious they could care less about the quality of the game.
So, it's not just about if you can cope with whatever recent changes because they don't effect you personally.
The only good news is they time gated and dil sink'd nearly everything in the whole game so we are closer now to them actually adding content than previously.
Tailor, skillpoints and traits and doff obviously need to be nerfed badly.
Just think of all the dil they losing on contrabands for example or how many costume changes are being done per day for free!!!!1
However since whales accepted patrols-specialization-upgrading, which is essentially copy-pasted text with a timegate, I see no reason they won't just continue with that.
Basically we at a level now where they can just add some numbers in notepad.ini then have people farm the same mission 800 times without adding a single model or animation to the game.
I think people have very low standards these days regarding what constitutes "Content"
When I said "The new Bridge Officer Training System is not Content" people jumped all over me. I'm still not sure why as it definitely is not Content in any way, shape or form.
I could be way off on this but here's my suspicion behind:
- The accounting irregularities (Also keep in mind that Chinese accounting standards are different, making accidents in conversion possible)
- The voluntary de-listing
- Chinese companies in some cases re-listing on Chinese exchanges
- Complaints from Chinese companies about being undervalued, which seem to precipate some of the accounting irregularities, re-listing on Chinese exchanges, and stock buybacks
Okay. You ready?
On the U.S. exchanges, investors expect companies to beat targets. If you don't outperform targets, you get dumped. Additionally, investors tend to get very managerially hands on and tend to see themselves to some extent as "experts in all industries" and will threaten to manipulate your stock price down if you don't do what they want. (In PWE's case, I think investors wanted them to ditch PC and go mobile, despite PWE being fairly good at PC gaming development and fairly weak at mobile.)
From the Chinese perspective, I think, company targets should a maximum, not a minimum. An earnings target is a goal to strive for and not something you're comfortable setting with the intent of surpassing. The target is "absolute best case" as far as you can imagine. You expect to fall short and don't expect for that to negatively influence stock price. Also, distance to power and cultural respect for expertise probably means that you don't expect investors to dictate company strategy as overtly and you expect them to hold stock longer.
And I SUSPECT (this is more a sociological guesstimate) that some of what you see in the U.S. and Chinese economies does boil down to stockholder behavior.
Short term investors who dictate strategy in the U.S.:
- Force certain types of innovation, creating value. Companies have to act fast and only the sharpest survive.
- Overlook niche strategies and long term value, destroying value by tanking stocks unfairly.
- The frequency of trade may result in a more powerful economy but the trading fees tend to eat up a lot of the efficiency there, meaning we have a powerful economy but much of that power is increasingly funneled away from both investors and companies listed on the market, towards brokers and consultants.
The U.S. stock market turns stock about 20% more frequently than the Chinese market does.
I used to work for several Chinese companies. You have no idea how "irregular" their accounting practices are. We got sued for 2.3 Billion Dollars and the CEO took his 90 million in bonuses and ran to the Cayman islands (Allegedly, I have no actual knowledge beyond rumors so don't bother deposing me if the authorities see this).
Some of these guys are almost as bad as our Wallstreet Pirates, though because Wallstreet is in bed with the government and 5 US news corps they can hide what really goes on. Many Chinese companies are also very much controlled by the Chinese government.
I think people have very low standards these days regarding what constitutes "Content"
When I said "The new Bridge Officer Training System is not Content" people jumped all over me. I'm still not sure why as it definitely is not Content in any way, shape or form.
Of course it's not content. It's a system.
No mechanic is ever content.
Now... One caveat... Good mechanics can make content stretch further. Yes. Absolutely. Great mechanics can make a handful of maps very replayable. That's what drives something like Street Fighter or Tekken. Very little content but the mechanics are so good that the small amount of content stretches.
Systems are not what MMOs do well. They're what game designers think MMOs can do well.
Systems are painfully limited in PC MMOs. They can't be time sensitive because of latency. They can't be too graphics reliant because different customers have different rigs. They can't be combo sensitive because of how keyboards work but also because of automation/macros.
PC MMOs are good at complex spreadsheets and algorithms, environments (PCs can have bigger environments last I checked), and most of all openness to content expansion.
Content is play scenario. Only play scenario is content. You have two kinds of scenario: developer authored and emergent/player authored.
UI is not content unless it includes a play mechanism.
I noticed that before. People were coming on here, saying leveling was awesome and they could do it just from Doffing. Then when they revealed they were level 52 or in one case, not even level 50 yet, they were laughed at and they went away.
Funny funny stuff.
Sorry to disappoint your theory but your wrong, i play most every night after work and on weekends, my level officially 60 but i have 30 specialization points used on the last tier of space or space/ground specializations, so that woud probabbly make me level 80? ive finished all rep systems to tier 5, level 16 in beams and average of 6 in others. plus ive mastered 3 t6 ships and a t5u.
Granted i am in an active, full and fun loving fleet. Which helps to keep me entertained but everyone has the option. We do pve and pvp training in 5 man teams every night. i believe the game is what you make of it. Just as a job is, you can always find things wrong or can work with what is available and make the best of it. i prefer the latter.
Sorry to disappoint your theory but your wrong, i play most every night after work and on weekends, my level officially 60 but i have 30 specialization points used on the last tier of space or space/ground specializations, so that woud probabbly make me level 80? ive finished all rep systems to tier 5, level 16 in beams and average of 6 in others. plus ive mastered 3 t6 ships and a t5u.
Granted i am in an active, full and fun loving fleet. Which helps to keep me entertained but everyone has the option. We do pve and pvp training in 5 man teams every night. i believe the game is what you make of it. Just as a job is, you can always find things wrong or can work with what is available and make the best of it. i prefer the latter.
You will notice in the post that you've quoted that no reference was made to you at all, and it was specifically talking about people who are currently no longer posting on this issue.
I'm not sure why you felt it applied to you personally. That's an issue with you not me I'm afraid.
You will notice in the post that you've quoted that no reference was made to you at all, and it was specifically talking about people who are currently no longer posting on this issue.
I'm not sure why you felt it applied to you personally. That's an issue with you not me I'm afraid.
Live long and prosper.
My apologies, i quoted you because you had quoted the person that did quote me. My bad it was an assumption so i apologize
you should ask cryptic that.
argala rising wasnt entertaining at all.
Then stay out of Argala.
"But it's the quickest way to level!" I hear you cry.
So? What's your hurry? And if you're in that big a hurry to level, maybe you should try one of those other truly pay-to-win games, where you can buy levels. (Just make sure you use a prepaid credit card if you do that, so the more nefarious can't steal more than they're supposed to.)
And yes, if you'll scan through the last few pages of this thread, the complainers are indeed the same few loud voices. (And those trying to point out their inaccuracies are an even smaller minority.) None of us have any legitimate claim on "all the players", or even "the majority".
Look, if you want a job, go out and get a job. If you've already got one, why are you trying to make this game into another one, striving to get bigger and bigger numbers instead of just having fun playing pretend with your starship? (And if what you're really after is a starship with steadily-increasing numbers, I can point you to a couple of games that'll be happy to indulge you. At least one of them has some pretty doggone active PvP, another reason I avoid it - I get plenty of conflict in reality, I don't need it invading my relaxation time as well. If that's your cuppa, though...)
why are you trying to make this game into another one, striving to get bigger and bigger numbers instead of just having fun playing pretend with your starship?
Play what exactly ? PVE Queues (Good One) ? Repeat the same 8 Story Missions over & over ... maybe he is staying out of Argala, and just doesn't know what else to do (like me). I always hear "the game is what you make out of it", but if there is nothing there, I can't make anything out of it ...
In fact I'm staying out of the game completely because of it ... if you're 60 & done with Story Content etc, "Argala Rising" is the only reasonale Endgame Content, it's as simple as that ... I liked & cared about this game, so it's kind of sad, if the only thing left to do is checking back in 6-12 months when the next Mission in available ...
PS : Endless repetition of the same thing isn't "fun" for me, it doesn't really matter if it's Argala or some Story Mission I like(d) ... at least PVE Queues mixed things up a little, before ...
And yes, if you'll scan through the last few pages of this thread, the complainers are indeed the same few loud voices. (And those trying to point out their inaccuracies are an even smaller minority.)None of us have any legitimate claim on "all the players", or even "the majority".
Isn't that what you just did ? I'm sorry but the first & second sentence don't really "fit" together ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
"But it's the quickest way to level!" I hear you cry.
So? What's your hurry? And if you're in that big a hurry to level, maybe you should try one of those other truly pay-to-win games, where you can buy levels. (Just make sure you use a prepaid credit card if you do that, so the more nefarious can't steal more than they're supposed to.)
The problem you're missing here, jon, is that there's points in DR where you have to go out and level-grind because Cryptic set the storyline level requirements up in such a way that you're not able to simply play the arc straight through from level 50.
Cryptic needs to do at least one of two things IMHO:
Remove the level requirements from the storyline missions entirely.
Make other content reward like Argala.
Possibly add a third thing: Don't penalize players XP-wise for playing the missions and patrols in groups. Last I looked this was supposed to be an MMO.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
TBH I think the arbitrary level setup is outmoded. It could be totally done away with pretty easily and restructured towards a collective gear score. This would entail a rebalance to make the enemies use more than just sit there and die tactics, but that's again not really hard.
The hard part is getting Cryptic to actually do it.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Comments
But I think people that spend money to get Zen or Dilithium or even invest time on helping cancer cells grow despite their better knowledge should lose the right to complain about cancer. Especially on the official Cancer forums.
Isn't there other things to do in the game? Wasn't that what everyone originally asked for? The way i see it the ques are empty because they are harder to do and if u want to get the optionals and rewards then its best to go in with a ready team. therefore you wont show in the ques. A ques are waiting line, as a five man team going into a 5 man team mission u dont have to wait in line.
And yes i am new to the game only being playing since July and i love it and i enjoy it sorry if that's offensive to anyone.
Is the game healthy? Yes, it is. At least compared to Champions Online.
I saw the writing on the wall back with the crafting update. It became much clearer after hearing about the T6 ships from the Las Vegas convention. It ran me over like a Mack truck going 100 MPH in a school zone when Delta Rising hit Holodeck. Since then, it's been backing up and running me over again ever few days, just for kicks apparently.
Now Cryptic will be revamping the Bridge Officer training system to make it more of a cash grab. I hear that big rig backing up again, but at this point, I can't feel anything anymore.
Except apathy.
I want the game to grow and be healthy. I want the game around for years to come.
However, seeing the direction the game has taken in 2014, I do not see a bright future ahead for the game. Cryptic and Perfect world may be making more money here lately, but I don't see that lasting for much longer.
The actual STORY behind Delta Rising was good, some of the best writing in the game. Unfortunately, the leveling progression from 50-60 is so poorly done and mishandled that, in my opinion, players have to spend so much time AWAY from the DR content in order to level to be ABLE to continue the DR content, that it simply breaks things up too much and they lose interest.
I got my first character from lvl 54-60 playing the DR content, and even starting it so late I had to grind to get to the next level in order to continue the story. By the time I hit 60, which was not even in the DR content, I'd pretty much decided that any future characters I take from 50-60 would not bother with the DR content, simply because there is not enough of it to level from 50-60. Being forced to run filler content to continue leveling between missions is just not FUN.
So congrats to Cryptic on making a load of money and for getting a lot of praise for the story content you released with Delta Rising.
As for the rest of it, meh.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Not offended. Happy you are having fun.
While people wanted more to do, people also didn't want to loose what they were doing too.
As for the queues, Cryptic made them important by making them the primary source for purple mats in the game. For crafters, the new way to play, this means you have to have active and successful queues to get them. Current stat is that unless you are in a massive and active fleet, your are SOL for getting into a lot of the queues because there is not visibly reported activity in those queues. And if you are a casual/solo player your options get even smaller. I am in that last catagory.
Before DR, I knew that when I logged in, I would be able to join any queue and run it during my available playtime. I also knew that more often than not, the PUG group would complete the Elite STF and get our reward. This allowed me to play as I wanted to at any time. And differently from Alt to Alt. Since DR, the NPC have had the HP Bags inflated to be beyond what players can hope to achieve, failure option put that can make one player kill it for all, and dil requirements to get the gear to be an effective PUGer for Advance to have increased. All in all, it has meant that my limited playtime actually is a detriment to me participating in any queues, because I don't have the time to upgrade the gear, grind the dil needed, and find players willing to take on the challange of probably losing in an advanced STF once an hour(or night as is my case) to figure out how to beat the scenario. especially when they have created ways for people to pay money to bypass these roadblocks. Which leaves the people with the means to pay standing in the dust wondering why they even try anymore.
I don't have the luxury of creating five man teams, my fleet is not online when I am. And because I play in a limited fashion, it takes me days and weeks to upgrade gear to XIV VR. I am fine with slow progress. But I am unhappy that I can not progress in crafting because the mats are tucked behind a paywall or dead queue.
The was enjoyable, playable, and possible to progress in as a solo player before they brought out DR and nerfed the experiance for the casual/solo player. Now I just make runs at CC Advanced to collect what I can because it's the only reliably active queue when I log on. Rare occasions I get something else. But that's way to far between events to make me happy.
This why people point to the queues, they were a very active thing prior to DR. But they died almost immediately afterwards because the rewards didn't match the pain of the experiance afterwards.
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RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
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First, there is grind, and then there is overgrind; STO went from grind to overgrind.
Second, it doesn't take 5 mins to post.
Third, posting on forums =/= repeating the same mission for an eternity.
Also, you forgot how long it takes to map load.
This post takes less than a minute. Not that /\
The queues are an indicator of how many active players are ingame and signing up to play. While it's hardly a comprehensive measurement, it's the most readily available one. Players from half a year back can notice that queues are now not popping as often as they did back then, and some queues can't even take off anymore.
There are other things to do in the game, such as leveling, crafting, PvP, Foundry, socializing, etc. But a lot of the activities that were so popular in previous years no longer hold appeal or don't have sufficient interest. PvP is broken because of DR (not gonna sugar coat that. Intel powers frakked up PvP big-time). Foundry is in worse shape than two years ago. Drozana is but an empty shell of its former, pre-renovation self. And players are leaving by the droves because endless grinds and dil sinks don't appeal to them anymore.
There are private queues, but again, they suffer the same fate as the rest of the game. Appeal is dwindling, and players are leaving.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
It's not offensive, but it does illustrate a good point.
Much of the grief around DR is coming from long-term players, and is rooted in dislocated expectations. I am, or have been, one of those individuals. The nub of the issue is that we'd got used to occupying a particular place in terms of STO's "pecking order" - in terms of how maxxed-out our characters were - which has now been thrown into utter turmoil because of the skyrocketing level / gear / specialisation caps.
What is ironic is how much of this is down to how easy some stuff had got. It took me 6 months to get my first character to L50 (in early 2011) because I was trying everything out along the way. My next took 3 months. It wasn't until August 2012 that my initial, "token fed" got brought up to being a geared L50. On that basis, the fact that it will take me 6 months to clear the initial specialisation system should not be an issue - but I'd got used to a game environment in which I could get two alts from zero to max-geared L50 in a month each
For a relative newcomer such as yourself, this is not an issue - it's just how the game is. A good sanity check for the old hands, I think...
Nah I dunno, it might just mean he hasn't even experienced the full impact of DR yet ...
... dunno if he is LvL 60 yet ... but the biggest DR "Fans" seem to be people, which are still Level 52-54 telling others that XP & Leveling is just fine ... which is quite ironic ...
PS : Tried another Toon after DR, had fun till LvL ~55 (after that you're basically playing a different game)
Once you've done all Story Content ~1-3 Times ... nope, not really ... of course there is repeating Patrols now, but imho you'll get bored pretty fast repeating them ...
The only "other" Stuff would be :
- Foundry (granted that's probably still my Nr.1, but good Missions are not in endless supply)
- Doffing (can be fun, but basically Farmville in Space)
- Crafting (see above)
- Events (from time to time)
-> PVE Queues were the thing that kept this game going (at least for me) ... I'm not doing endless Patrols instead, so now I'll have to wait for the next Story Content (aka "see you in ~6months") ... if there is anything else to do, please tell me ...
And no, since the Forum - people are a "minority", it can't be what "everybody" asked for ... even if it would've been the only thing in the Forums pre-DR ... and I don't think it was ...
It's pretty funny sometimes : If you're an "evil Forum-Whiner" you're a minority (everyone else is in-game having fun etc), but if you whine about PVE Queues you're suddenly "everybody & asked for it" (sounds like a majority, to me) -> It can't be both ...
I noticed that before. People were coming on here, saying leveling was awesome and they could do it just from Doffing. Then when they revealed they were level 52 or in one case, not even level 50 yet, they were laughed at and they went away.
Funny funny stuff.
Free Tibet!
If anything having materials in the queues is an argument to kill the queues - so you don't give anything away for free.
Empty queues are not the problem you think they are.
We don't have to have 1 single person in the queues...
Displacement of progression takes place all the time and so all it comes down to is, are the whales willing to do 800 patrol missions for the voyager story arc?
Yes they are, well then it's as simple as mass production of passive specialization points with no animations (no work), and then turn the grinding volume up to extreme.
From their perspective it's also a nice way to motivate you to finally play their story missions - over and over and over forever.
The patrol missions are actually the best content ever and the players love it, from a certain perspective.
But so there isn't any reason why all progression from now on can't be patrol grinding for spec points.
From their perspective nothing has ever been even remotely as profitable as DR, why not duplicate it
/edit
ps. the thing being we only need the non-whales on the server in so far as the whales need them.
Whales playing single player patrol grinding now queues are not needed, neither is the players
I could be way off on this but here's my suspicion behind:
- The accounting irregularities (Also keep in mind that Chinese accounting standards are different, making accidents in conversion possible)
- The voluntary de-listing
- Chinese companies in some cases re-listing on Chinese exchanges
- Complaints from Chinese companies about being undervalued, which seem to precipate some of the accounting irregularities, re-listing on Chinese exchanges, and stock buybacks
Okay. You ready?
On the U.S. exchanges, investors expect companies to beat targets. If you don't outperform targets, you get dumped. Additionally, investors tend to get very managerially hands on and tend to see themselves to some extent as "experts in all industries" and will threaten to manipulate your stock price down if you don't do what they want. (In PWE's case, I think investors wanted them to ditch PC and go mobile, despite PWE being fairly good at PC gaming development and fairly weak at mobile.)
From the Chinese perspective, I think, company targets should a maximum, not a minimum. An earnings target is a goal to strive for and not something you're comfortable setting with the intent of surpassing. The target is "absolute best case" as far as you can imagine. You expect to fall short and don't expect for that to negatively influence stock price. Also, distance to power and cultural respect for expertise probably means that you don't expect investors to dictate company strategy as overtly and you expect them to hold stock longer.
And I SUSPECT (this is more a sociological guesstimate) that some of what you see in the U.S. and Chinese economies does boil down to stockholder behavior.
Short term investors who dictate strategy in the U.S.:
- Force certain types of innovation, creating value. Companies have to act fast and only the sharpest survive.
- Overlook niche strategies and long term value, destroying value by tanking stocks unfairly.
- The frequency of trade may result in a more powerful economy but the trading fees tend to eat up a lot of the efficiency there, meaning we have a powerful economy but much of that power is increasingly funneled away from both investors and companies listed on the market, towards brokers and consultants.
The U.S. stock market turns stock about 20% more frequently than the Chinese market does.
I'm level 57 (soon 58), and haven't even touched Argala... only doff missions, and building stuff and some STF's, yes it takes some time, but I play at least 2 to 3 hours a day, don't need to go faster.
Actually, I haven't done ANY DR mission with that char, I'll take them when I'm level 60, and already purchased 2 additional ships, "grinding" for a month, all the freebies from the WW, and so on...
People who "WAN IT NAW", usually complains.. I'm fine with the level progression, as progression is not everything in this game (never done the DPS race nor the rarity upgrade race), I play because I relax myself in this game, and because I do stf's and some missions with my family
It was dramatically different before the November 20th patch.
I made it from 50-54 replaying the Klingon and Romulan fronts and turning in 20 DOff assignments. DOff leveling did appear to be quite healthy.
From that point on, I was able to play DR missions but I did have to stop and do 2-3 queued events per level. I think I did 2 of the patrols twice. This got me to 59.
59-60 was more painful but didn't bug me much.
After that, I was getting 1 spec level a week from DOffing and queued missions. Not spectacular progress but it was okay and it kept me logging in daily.
After the Nov. 20th patch, I could no longer see my XP bar move from turning in 20 DOffing assignments. I could no longer see queued events contribute a visible chunk of XP. It was at that point that that I got very disenfranchised.
The issue I think with patrols is less that you NEED them for leveling (though I think leveling shouldn't require any repetition).
It's that they're the only content which moves your XP bar fast enough to feel like you're making specialization progress at 60. The only content.
While leveling, you're still getting better XP off of initial playthroughs of missions. Your XP requirement per level is also lower.
Every specialization point requires the same skillpoint gain as 59-60 and the ONLY meaningful source is Delta Quadrant patrols, which you must complete thousands of. And if you want to do it before the next specialization system comes out, you're looking at a lifestyle of thousands of hours of playing the same 5 or so patrols a year just to have a "complete" character, which, incidentally, is the BASELINE for PvP.
A core premise of the game up until the recent regime changes was choice, freedom, being creative.
Which is actually the defintion of a game when you think about it.
Everytime they've nerfed a feature or straight up deleted them to control the players they are also limiting the gameplay.
You could be any career you wanted, make hybrid boats using whatever abilities you wanted - you were free to play around.
Power creep sure but you can keep the game for casuals and still have elite maps both at the same time.
We didn't HAVE to kill the queues and the entire premise of a open game with freedom to add harder maps.
We also didn't have to nerf the dil, nerf the marks and nerf the EC.
Just like we didn't have to nerf exp and ask people to play 800 patrol missions for a bunch of passives that essentially won't get you close to t6.
I actually always thought it was a strength that you could take your favorite ship into eSTF not a weakness.
When you turn over the control to the developers it won't just be power creep but it's going to be power creep for milking.
For example 5 million dil for text upgrades to your weapons that are mandatory.
When STF was what it was you could stop or even never begin to spend or farm when you wanted and still just play.
Now, there is an entry fee @ 5 million per character for PERMISSION to play the game (plus the 10 levels from 50 to 60)
I am saying that didn't add anything to the game, that ruined parts only, nothing more.
It took away gameplay and put money into the developers hands because whales.
On general principle alone developers should have as little influence as possible but seeing how these here people try to battery hens commandeer, it quickly becomes obvious they could care less about the quality of the game.
So, it's not just about if you can cope with whatever recent changes because they don't effect you personally.
The only good news is they time gated and dil sink'd nearly everything in the whole game so we are closer now to them actually adding content than previously.
Tailor, skillpoints and traits and doff obviously need to be nerfed badly.
Just think of all the dil they losing on contrabands for example or how many costume changes are being done per day for free!!!!1
However since whales accepted patrols-specialization-upgrading, which is essentially copy-pasted text with a timegate, I see no reason they won't just continue with that.
Basically we at a level now where they can just add some numbers in notepad.ini then have people farm the same mission 800 times without adding a single model or animation to the game.
When I said "The new Bridge Officer Training System is not Content" people jumped all over me. I'm still not sure why as it definitely is not Content in any way, shape or form.
Free Tibet!
I used to work for several Chinese companies. You have no idea how "irregular" their accounting practices are. We got sued for 2.3 Billion Dollars and the CEO took his 90 million in bonuses and ran to the Cayman islands (Allegedly, I have no actual knowledge beyond rumors so don't bother deposing me if the authorities see this).
Some of these guys are almost as bad as our Wallstreet Pirates, though because Wallstreet is in bed with the government and 5 US news corps they can hide what really goes on. Many Chinese companies are also very much controlled by the Chinese government.
Of course it's not content. It's a system.
No mechanic is ever content.
Now... One caveat... Good mechanics can make content stretch further. Yes. Absolutely. Great mechanics can make a handful of maps very replayable. That's what drives something like Street Fighter or Tekken. Very little content but the mechanics are so good that the small amount of content stretches.
Systems are not what MMOs do well. They're what game designers think MMOs can do well.
Systems are painfully limited in PC MMOs. They can't be time sensitive because of latency. They can't be too graphics reliant because different customers have different rigs. They can't be combo sensitive because of how keyboards work but also because of automation/macros.
PC MMOs are good at complex spreadsheets and algorithms, environments (PCs can have bigger environments last I checked), and most of all openness to content expansion.
Content is play scenario. Only play scenario is content. You have two kinds of scenario: developer authored and emergent/player authored.
UI is not content unless it includes a play mechanism.
"Our goal in 2014 was to aggressively push the game forward, and you can expect us to build on this in 2015." AHAHAHAHA!
and it clearly shows:
Star Trek Online Steamcharts
this is how growing actually looks, Devs, for Reference:
7 Days to Die Steamcharts
Granted i am in an active, full and fun loving fleet. Which helps to keep me entertained but everyone has the option. We do pve and pvp training in 5 man teams every night. i believe the game is what you make of it. Just as a job is, you can always find things wrong or can work with what is available and make the best of it. i prefer the latter.
You will notice in the post that you've quoted that no reference was made to you at all, and it was specifically talking about people who are currently no longer posting on this issue.
I'm not sure why you felt it applied to you personally. That's an issue with you not me I'm afraid.
Live long and prosper.
Free Tibet!
you should ask cryptic that.
argala rising wasnt entertaining at all.
"But it's the quickest way to level!" I hear you cry.
So? What's your hurry? And if you're in that big a hurry to level, maybe you should try one of those other truly pay-to-win games, where you can buy levels. (Just make sure you use a prepaid credit card if you do that, so the more nefarious can't steal more than they're supposed to.)
And yes, if you'll scan through the last few pages of this thread, the complainers are indeed the same few loud voices. (And those trying to point out their inaccuracies are an even smaller minority.) None of us have any legitimate claim on "all the players", or even "the majority".
Look, if you want a job, go out and get a job. If you've already got one, why are you trying to make this game into another one, striving to get bigger and bigger numbers instead of just having fun playing pretend with your starship? (And if what you're really after is a starship with steadily-increasing numbers, I can point you to a couple of games that'll be happy to indulge you. At least one of them has some pretty doggone active PvP, another reason I avoid it - I get plenty of conflict in reality, I don't need it invading my relaxation time as well. If that's your cuppa, though...)
Play what exactly ? PVE Queues (Good One) ? Repeat the same 8 Story Missions over & over ... maybe he is staying out of Argala, and just doesn't know what else to do (like me). I always hear "the game is what you make out of it", but if there is nothing there, I can't make anything out of it ...
In fact I'm staying out of the game completely because of it ... if you're 60 & done with Story Content etc, "Argala Rising" is the only reasonale Endgame Content, it's as simple as that ... I liked & cared about this game, so it's kind of sad, if the only thing left to do is checking back in 6-12 months when the next Mission in available ...
PS : Endless repetition of the same thing isn't "fun" for me, it doesn't really matter if it's Argala or some Story Mission I like(d) ... at least PVE Queues mixed things up a little, before ...
Isn't that what you just did ? I'm sorry but the first & second sentence don't really "fit" together ...
The problem you're missing here, jon, is that there's points in DR where you have to go out and level-grind because Cryptic set the storyline level requirements up in such a way that you're not able to simply play the arc straight through from level 50.
Cryptic needs to do at least one of two things IMHO:
Possibly add a third thing: Don't penalize players XP-wise for playing the missions and patrols in groups. Last I looked this was supposed to be an MMO.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The hard part is getting Cryptic to actually do it.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."