For all we know maybe that is their plan force the die hard star trek fans and gamers away so they can shut the game down.
I know that sounds stupid but giving all the stupid things cryptic has done these past few weeks its the only thing I can come up with that made sence.
i am almost inclined to agree with you now.
at first i thought it was just stupidity in charge, but they keep coming back with more and more.
yes, exactly like this, scary thing is, until DR, i never really felt mad, or angry about the state of this game, but now, i won't stop building my ship, i'm going to make my own darn adventures, maybe they will fix this game, but the damage has been done, for now i play the forums ...
After all the mess of the DR launch, I expected them to be doing everything to win people back, not drive them away further. Everything they are doing these days is lies and nerfing more and more stuff, ignoring the fanbase with walls of silence as they do. Baffling.
Cryptic can go **** a barge pole for what they have done to STO, how they can sit back and think they've done a good job, and the community is happy is just sheer ****ing stupidity.
The whole lot of PWE are a bunch of money grabbing ****tards and I really hope the company just goes ****ing broke.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
It was with regret that I had to notify the senior staff in the fleet I belong to, that I was going to be largely inactive. It is not because I have changes in my personal life. It is because you, Cryptic, have decided to change something, yet again, that makes no sense. I have personally gone over my characters, I have 5 toons, all between level 52 and 56, and looked into how much SP they can gain and how much it takes to level. I have come to the conclusion that STO now takes too much of my time to level a character. You have managed to set the leveling system so high, I could go back to Eve online and train my main character into the biggest "most powerful" ship in Eve faster.
I have willingly participated in many of the "events" such as the recent Mirror Invasion, because I felt, for the most part, that the rewards were worth my time. I was kind of looking forward to the winter event, now I really couldn't care. Don't get me wrong Cryptic, I am no stranger to grinding, 8 years in Eve Online can attest to that. Now though, I don't see a point in continuing to play. You removed the rewards for capping out specialization points, and haven't given us anything else to work towards. Now you seem determined to tell us that we need to spend 3x the amount of time to reach a mystic point that has no rewards, other that the bragging rights of having a maxed out toon.
I am not, nor have I ever been subscribed, I am a free player. With that said, I have also spent money on this game to have new ships. I would like my money back. Since you seem determined to drive the player base away, and make this a game that the majority of veteran players don't want to have anything to do with, I would like a refund, since I will not be using the merchandise I purchased from you. To let you know how serious I am Cryptic, I have cancelled all orders I had on the (barely usable) exchange, and removed all the dilithium I had for sale on the dilithium exchange. As I already stated I have notified my fleet that I am going inactive.
It was a great game Cryptic, I had a lot of fun, but you seem to be set on doing whatever you want, without listening to the community, and that is where I have to draw the line. If you decide to reverse this ridiculous decision, and bring the game back to being "fun" I may come back. In the meanwhile, farewell friends and fellow players, may your phasers and disruptors hit true.
P.S. I wonder when the I.P. is coming up for a contract review?
What it means it that you need way more XP to get to the next level, with more XP awarded for missions, but that doff assignments which have not been buffed get close to becoming pointless busywork. I don't know how NPC kills have been affected.
Pre-nerf: leveling at 60 was around 52-60,000, "Stranded in Space" would issue around 750 for completion
Post-nerf: leveling is now 140,000+, "Stranded in Space" will now issue around 2000 for completion
In other words, the points you need at level 60 for each new spec point is 2.5 times as many, which seems to have been matched by mission rewards... BUT doff assignments have not been buffed at all so they become useless as part of leveling.
Yet another massive nerf, turning another area of play into something that is now nearly irrelevant.
Yet another massive nerf, turning another area of play into something that is now nearly irrelevant.
Yup. They are killing so many aspects of them game, for them not to see is stupidity beyond belief. I've given up on STF's due to their behaviour (and clearly I am not alone), now Doffing and am close to giving up on the game entirely. I scrape an hour a day and am slowing coming down off that.
I predict yet another mass exodus of players from this mess up. I will be amazed if this game is around this time next year if they carry on at this rate.
Yup. They are killing so many aspects of them game, for them not to see is stupidity beyond belief. I've given up on STF's due to their behaviour (and clearly I am not alone), now Doffing and am close to giving up on the game entirely. I scrape an hour a day and am slowing coming down off that.
I predict yet another mass exodus of players from this mess up. I will be amazed if this game is around this time next year if they carry on at this rate.
But the C-store works just fine, and heh their is a new ship!
Cryptic you bunch of money grabbing git's WAKE UP.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
But the C-store works just fine, and heh their is a new ship!
Cryptic you bunch of money grabbing git's WAKE UP.
lol indeed.
They'll run out of paying customers pretty soon. Look how dead things like the queues are these days. Those empty queues are empty seats where potential customers sat. People just don't want to invest time anymore and wage this ongoing and excessive battle against nerfs.
The NPC's are supposed to be the enemies of this game, not game developers constantly shafting the players with endless frustrating nerfs.
The less people actively giving time into playing, the less they'll be wiling to drop any money into it at all. A few high spenders can't carry this game when thousands upon thousands are just giving up after constantly having Cryptic make their lives needlessly difficult.
I'm predicting this game will be in major trouble by the end of next year unless there is a major overhaul to turn things around and work with the players, not punish and lie to them.
1. To have the numbers be the same at every level - 2k earned at L49 is 2k eaarned at L51.
2. To have each level take X many tasks.
I saw 3 missions = one level. Is this the "desired rate"? Could you tell us the "desired rate" no matter what the number is, even if it varies per level (3 missions @L51 but 5@L61), so that those of us who care / "post release beta test" these things for you can tell you if you're on the mark or not?
And, in that same statement, can you give us an idea of how other activities, such as STFs, Queues, battlezones, DOffing, etc. fits into this? IE, 200 hours of DOffing (which is 10x20 hour assignments) = 1 mission? 3x STFs = 1 mission? And how the Advanced and Elite modifiers are supposed to tweak this (is Adv. x1.2 XP and Elite x1.5?)
Information that I'm asking for is the kind of clarity that I (and others) seek to see if Cryptic is actually trying to turn a new leaf as it were, or if we're still going to be guessing and stepping on eggshells avoiding "exploits"...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
DEV 1: What can we do to nerf XP further?! They got really upset, last time, when they found out doffs were lying about the amount of XP they're paying out.
DEV 2: Well, that was really just *us* lying, instead of the doffs, right?!
DEV 1: Of course.
DEV 3: Why were we looking to nerf XP again?!
DEV 1: Because they're going too bloody fast, is why!
DEV 3: Hmm, I know I'm new here and all, but couldn't we just do, you know, the opposite, and make things less grindy? So people might actually enjoy the game. And we'll win back some goodwill.
DEV 1: Yeah, no. Our DR content is limited; we simply *must* draw out their time to complete it, at all cost. Besides, the boss said they'll buy more new ships in the meantime.
DEV 2: In that case, let's send them a wolf amongst the sheep. We'll let him do some brilliant double-talk on how a nerf really isn't a nerf and all. Nobody will really understand it, but we'll be able to say at least we communicated about it. Win-win for us, as usual.
DEV 3: Honestly, guys, I think we should concentrate on this improving the game thingy first.
DEV 1: I appreciate you being new and all, but please stop! Further persistence on this matter may be viewed as harassment, and disciplinary action taken against you!
... The NPC's are supposed to be the enemies of this game, not game developers constantly shafting the players with endless frustrating nerfs...
As someone somewhere once said, "If the gamers are talking about the devs rather than the game, you're facing a crisis". Or somesuch.
I think the devs have become so insular that they don't understand two very basic problems:
If people are using workarounds rather than your new content, that means there's a problem with your content
The choice is between playing the content that players want to play, and playing another competitor's game instead
In other words, Cryptic can close off as many options as they like: exploration clusters, PvE, prior seasons' grinds and missions. Heck, they can seal off everything except DR... but that does not mean that people will play DR!
The reason I've been using doffing rather than content is because I don't like the DR content (I find it dull, poorly written, and grindy); but have been logging in to "keep the ball rolling". If they close that off, all it means is I'll log into something else.
Cryptic, here's a News Flash: you're not the only game in the universe. You've got competition. That competition is looking more attractive because of all your constant and continued stuff ups. Wasn't DR a success? So sad, too bad, learn to cope and move on.
For all we know maybe that is their plan force the die hard star trek fans and gamers away so they can shut the game down.
I know that sounds stupid but giving all the stupid things cryptic has done these past few weeks its the only thing I can come up with that made sence.
Well I have run into this practice before. There is a business principle behind it I believe which is ,
1. Players who have been around the longest have bought everything they will buy and so cost the company money, by taking up space on the servers, (space which costs money to run for servers electricity, bandwidth etc.)
2. To increase profits you have to change the game so that they will leave. That space and the money required to keep it for that player will then be filled by a player new to the game who has nothing from the store, and they will then spend money to buy the items there, increasing the profits.
3. When the new players become old players, see number 1 above.
I actually came to the forums to see what people were saying about the cost of the Interpid. I was shocked to see there were no post on it. Then I looked again and saw what was going on.
Guys at Cryptic. All I can say is thank you. Now my time instead of being taken up by playing my ten characters, Will be cut down drastically since I will only play the one I have that is hmmmmm WAS almost to 60.
Oh well at least now I have time to spend doing things that are actually fun.
For me it is nearly the same like for the most here.
I do have gladly only 4 more chars not on lvl 60 - and in the last days I thought how much money I do have to spend to get all the missing ship lvl ups and - because not fleet ships the ship modules. <sarcasm on> - I don't have to think about that any more - I am not going to play these chars any more - I am 53 now, and I don't want to wait to get lvl 60 before my grandchildren are seeing this world.
For me most importnat thing in the game is playing together with my other fleet members - that is not possible while lvl-ing - because everybody has another level -- and then the stf's even in advanced are realy boaring some in mission <seeing a clockcounter going down is the worsest thing I can think of - why should I use a good ship and good gear - when that doesn't matter> or they are much to easy and don't make any fun - and no real reward that would stand for the time you use for it. Or they are horrible buggy like vce in 2 of 4 times you have a buggy mission that can't be fullfilled <healing the gegli and the subspace rift> Nearly all the elite missions are still not implementeated - but it's true a bar is much more important.
With the time you do need now, to lvl you do have to make a choice - if you skill space or ground. I like going ground, but there you don't get xp - so you can't get your next spezification point - so all this get's a never ending story.
And the thing I hate most is to see that 2/3rd of the people who have been playing are not online any more.
Well I have run into this practice before. There is a business principle behind it I believe which is ,
1. Players who have been around the longest have bought everything they will buy and so cost the company money, by taking up space on the servers, (space which costs money to run for servers electricity, bandwidth etc.)
2. To increase profits you have to change the game so that they will leave. That space and the money required to keep it for that player will then be filled by a player new to the game who has nothing from the store, and they will then spend money to buy the items there, increasing the profits.
3. When the new players become old players, see number 1 above.
I actually came to the forums to see what people were saying about the cost of the Interpid. I was shocked to see there were no post on it. Then I looked again and saw what was going on.
Guys at Cryptic. All I can say is thank you. Now my time instead of being taken up by playing my ten characters, Will be cut down drastically since I will only play the one I have that is hmmmmm WAS almost to 60.
Oh well at least now I have time to spend doing things that are actually fun.
I thought about this too and it makes sense in terms of where this might be coming from.
The really stupid thing about it for STO though? You're not dealing with "normal gamers" but "Star Trek fans"...
If STO players who are Star Trek Fans stop playing 'adventure-based' content, and thus no longer feel the desire to buy stuff, they'll still log in, and will hang around using STO as a giant, pretty, virtual chat room. If Cryptic's idea is to get players to nick off to let in new cashed-up payers, they're in for a very nasty surprise.
As I've seen people wondering how say NPC kills were affected by this 'update', I'll post this:
Before November 20 patch:
1 more level after attaining level 60... 54k XP
1 Argala run on normal, including the completion reward (900 xp)... approx. 5,100 XP for Kazon
After November 20 patch:
1 more level after attaining level 60... approx 150k XP
1 Argala run on normal, including the completion reward... approx. 7,600 for Kazon (haven't noticed how much the completion reward is currently on my last playthrough)
Level XP requirements almost tripled.
But not only doesn't doffing reward 3 times more XP to balance out the 3 times higher XP needs, NPC kills weren't even doubled either.
Those numbers clearly expose this paragraph from the OP's post:
While there are a lot of numbers changing, we have taken extra care to make sure that the speed at which players level up will remain the same as it is now. This means that if a player chooses to level up from level 51 to 52 using exclusively missions and it currently requires that they play 3 missions to do so, then after the update it will still take 3 missions to level up from 51 to 52 if you use them as your sole source of skill points. This is true for whatever method a player might choose for leveling up whether it is missions, duty officer assignments or critter kills.
as
A) lying;
something went horribly wrong.
There's not much worth saying about the A) possibility. possibility is funny as players were raising concerns about this update being probably rushed in/not properly tested. And all that supposedly in order to basically change nothing.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
And as usual when the devs have a major TRIBBLE up, or majorly TRIBBLE us intentionally, they sit quite and don't post a damn thing related to the issue. Leaving your pissed of customers to sit around damning you to the deepest darkest corners of hell is not a good business practice.
From Level 55 to 60 ~ more than 158863 Skill Points/Level
Argala Normal ~ 4713Skill Points/Run
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
Now I dont know if you are considering SP from critter kills. That is certainly going to vary greatly if you kill a lot of critters versus another with few critters (and the Delta Patrols vary greatly and each time you play many of them generate a random number of waves). But remember critters also received an increase in proportion to the new requirements.
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before. In fact, Starship Mastery will be faster since critter ships award a lot more SP and Starship Master requirement did not go up.
The main reason this change was made was there were odd discrepancies at each level causing some rewards (critter kill, doff assignments, and missions) to be lower at higher levels. The change fixes that. I give you my word no one is trying to pull a fast one on the community. It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
Geko, I appreciate your presenting data, but I think your message might have gotten across better without the snark. It gives the appearance, whether or not true, that you are more interested in scoring points or putting someone in their place than having the kind of substantive discussion that you then follow with later. Many people do not read past the first line when they see such an attitude.
Please remember that when you are dealing with an angry customer the last thing you want to do is be sarcastic with them.
And yes, that even includes instances where you sincerely believe that the customer is wrong. :-/
I will have to prove the numbers for myself to make a full review (as you may be aware of my ongoing review series), but regardless I would strongly advise taking my advice to heart to avoid digging yourself and your company in any deeper than you are customer-relations-wise.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Geko, I appreciate your presenting data, but I think your message might have gotten across better without the snark. It gives the appearance, whether or not true, that you are more interested in scoring points or putting someone in their place than having the kind of substantive discussion that you then follow with later. Many people do not read past the first line when they see such an attitude.
Please remember that when you are dealing with an angry customer the last thing you want to do is be sarcastic with them.
And yes, that even includes instances where you sincerely believe that the customer is wrong. :-/
I will have to prove the numbers for myself to make a full review (as you may be aware of my ongoing review series), but regardless I would strongly advise taking my advice to heart to avoid digging yourself and your company in any deeper than you are customer-relations-wise.
:rolleyes:
The opening sentence was clearly a playful joke. Is everyone so uptight now that no dev can make a joke without it being taken out of context?
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before. In fact, Starship Mastery will be faster since critter ships award a lot more SP and Starship Master requirement did not go up.
Now, will you work on the level gap we have with DR, and start improving the grind situation ? Grinding patrol mission to unlock patrol mission is no fun. And considering the amount of whine around, I don't think I'm the only one who think that.
The change fixes that. I give you my word no one is trying to pull a fast one on the community. It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
Well then, the community gave you one : Doff XP reward are the same than before. Meaning you need 3 times more Doff missions for the same relative amount of XP.
I just checked, and missions that gave me 1202xp in the past (lvl60) still give me the same amount of XP. I don't have the exact amount for the other missions, but they look to reward the same than before, at least it's not 3times more (missions that used to reward 100ish are not rewarding 300ish right now).
Geko, thanks for coming in here and trying to put the flames out.
I think everyone, on both sides of the fence, needs to step back and let time tell what's going on.
I personally believe nothing was intentionally nerfed. While the OP is a little confusing, I personally believe the logic to be a little sound - while it's a difference "that makes no difference" as people were decrying, I'd rather missions reward a consistent amount of XP, even if it takes just as long to level as before.
I've been watching this play out all afternoon on the forums, and I think we're still a little testy. A large number of people are riled up by the "progression" rates. Personally I don't mind - it's my inability to pug anymore that I find worrisome.
From the people complaining, I'm also willing to believe that perhaps there is a bug. I haven't been in game myself yet to check out the XP changes on what I was using to level my main (open missions on Kobali and doffing mostly), but I'll be watching as well.
In my opinion, donning the asbestos gloves and coming into the fire to deal with us is a good thing - I'd rather see responses from the folks at Cryptic rather than an increasing volume of complaining, even if the complaining is justified, and even if the responses are not what everyone wants to hear.
But - and this is a huge caveat - I'm just a guy - my opinion means no more or less than anyone else.
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
Now I dont know if you are considering SP from critter kills. That is certainly going to vary greatly if you kill a lot of critters versus another with few critters (and the Delta Patrols vary greatly and each time you play many of them generate a random number of waves). But remember critters also received an increase in proportion to the new requirements.
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before. In fact, Starship Mastery will be faster since critter ships award a lot more SP and Starship Master requirement did not go up.
The main reason this change was made was there were odd discrepancies at each level causing some rewards (critter kill, doff assignments, and missions) to be lower at higher levels. The change fixes that. I give you my word no one is trying to pull a fast one on the community. It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
I hope this clears things up.
Very Best Regards,
LLAP,
-Al Captain Geko Rivera
You are right, before we got 944 SP for Argala on Normal, now we get 2730. That is ok. But the problem is that the SP from npc's didn't scale up accordingly.
Yesterday I ran 5 Normal Argala missions and I would get between 4500-5000 SP. Today after the patch I also ran those 5 missions and I got between 6000-7000 SP. Which is just a difference between 2730 today we get for Normal Argala and 944 we could get yesterday.
Geko, I appreciate your presenting data, but I think your message might have gotten across better without the snark. It gives the appearance, whether or not true, that you are more interested in scoring points or putting someone in their place than having the kind of substantive discussion that you then follow with later. Many people do not read past the first line when they see such an attitude.
Please remember that when you are dealing with an angry customer the last thing you want to do is be sarcastic with them.
And yes, that even includes instances where you sincerely believe that the customer is wrong. :-/
I will have to prove the numbers for myself to make a full review (as you may be aware of my ongoing review series), but regardless I would strongly advise taking my advice to heart to avoid digging yourself and your company in any deeper than you are customer-relations-wise.
The opening sentence was clearly a playful joke. Is everyone so uptight now that no dev can make a joke without it being taken out of context?
YES and rightfully so. We don't need "jokes" from the Devs, at this point in time everything that's happened since the launch of Dev's Revenge has been one big cruel joke.
Comments
i am almost inclined to agree with you now.
at first i thought it was just stupidity in charge, but they keep coming back with more and more.
Sounds really logical. I just hope someone could start a new game with a better engine not this disgusting nerf fest.
yes, exactly like this, scary thing is, until DR, i never really felt mad, or angry about the state of this game, but now, i won't stop building my ship, i'm going to make my own darn adventures, maybe they will fix this game, but the damage has been done, for now i play the forums ...
The whole lot of PWE are a bunch of money grabbing ****tards and I really hope the company just goes ****ing broke.
I have willingly participated in many of the "events" such as the recent Mirror Invasion, because I felt, for the most part, that the rewards were worth my time. I was kind of looking forward to the winter event, now I really couldn't care. Don't get me wrong Cryptic, I am no stranger to grinding, 8 years in Eve Online can attest to that. Now though, I don't see a point in continuing to play. You removed the rewards for capping out specialization points, and haven't given us anything else to work towards. Now you seem determined to tell us that we need to spend 3x the amount of time to reach a mystic point that has no rewards, other that the bragging rights of having a maxed out toon.
I am not, nor have I ever been subscribed, I am a free player. With that said, I have also spent money on this game to have new ships. I would like my money back. Since you seem determined to drive the player base away, and make this a game that the majority of veteran players don't want to have anything to do with, I would like a refund, since I will not be using the merchandise I purchased from you. To let you know how serious I am Cryptic, I have cancelled all orders I had on the (barely usable) exchange, and removed all the dilithium I had for sale on the dilithium exchange. As I already stated I have notified my fleet that I am going inactive.
It was a great game Cryptic, I had a lot of fun, but you seem to be set on doing whatever you want, without listening to the community, and that is where I have to draw the line. If you decide to reverse this ridiculous decision, and bring the game back to being "fun" I may come back. In the meanwhile, farewell friends and fellow players, may your phasers and disruptors hit true.
P.S. I wonder when the I.P. is coming up for a contract review?
Pre-nerf: leveling at 60 was around 52-60,000, "Stranded in Space" would issue around 750 for completion
Post-nerf: leveling is now 140,000+, "Stranded in Space" will now issue around 2000 for completion
In other words, the points you need at level 60 for each new spec point is 2.5 times as many, which seems to have been matched by mission rewards... BUT doff assignments have not been buffed at all so they become useless as part of leveling.
Yet another massive nerf, turning another area of play into something that is now nearly irrelevant.
Yup. They are killing so many aspects of them game, for them not to see is stupidity beyond belief. I've given up on STF's due to their behaviour (and clearly I am not alone), now Doffing and am close to giving up on the game entirely. I scrape an hour a day and am slowing coming down off that.
I predict yet another mass exodus of players from this mess up. I will be amazed if this game is around this time next year if they carry on at this rate.
But the C-store works just fine, and heh their is a new ship!
Cryptic you bunch of money grabbing git's WAKE UP.
lol indeed.
They'll run out of paying customers pretty soon. Look how dead things like the queues are these days. Those empty queues are empty seats where potential customers sat. People just don't want to invest time anymore and wage this ongoing and excessive battle against nerfs.
The NPC's are supposed to be the enemies of this game, not game developers constantly shafting the players with endless frustrating nerfs.
The less people actively giving time into playing, the less they'll be wiling to drop any money into it at all. A few high spenders can't carry this game when thousands upon thousands are just giving up after constantly having Cryptic make their lives needlessly difficult.
I'm predicting this game will be in major trouble by the end of next year unless there is a major overhaul to turn things around and work with the players, not punish and lie to them.
1. To have the numbers be the same at every level - 2k earned at L49 is 2k eaarned at L51.
2. To have each level take X many tasks.
I saw 3 missions = one level. Is this the "desired rate"? Could you tell us the "desired rate" no matter what the number is, even if it varies per level (3 missions @L51 but 5@L61), so that those of us who care / "post release beta test" these things for you can tell you if you're on the mark or not?
And, in that same statement, can you give us an idea of how other activities, such as STFs, Queues, battlezones, DOffing, etc. fits into this? IE, 200 hours of DOffing (which is 10x20 hour assignments) = 1 mission? 3x STFs = 1 mission? And how the Advanced and Elite modifiers are supposed to tweak this (is Adv. x1.2 XP and Elite x1.5?)
Information that I'm asking for is the kind of clarity that I (and others) seek to see if Cryptic is actually trying to turn a new leaf as it were, or if we're still going to be guessing and stepping on eggshells avoiding "exploits"...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
DEV 1: What can we do to nerf XP further?! They got really upset, last time, when they found out doffs were lying about the amount of XP they're paying out.
DEV 2: Well, that was really just *us* lying, instead of the doffs, right?!
DEV 1: Of course.
DEV 3: Why were we looking to nerf XP again?!
DEV 1: Because they're going too bloody fast, is why!
DEV 3: Hmm, I know I'm new here and all, but couldn't we just do, you know, the opposite, and make things less grindy? So people might actually enjoy the game. And we'll win back some goodwill.
DEV 1: Yeah, no. Our DR content is limited; we simply *must* draw out their time to complete it, at all cost. Besides, the boss said they'll buy more new ships in the meantime.
DEV 2: In that case, let's send them a wolf amongst the sheep. We'll let him do some brilliant double-talk on how a nerf really isn't a nerf and all. Nobody will really understand it, but we'll be able to say at least we communicated about it. Win-win for us, as usual.
DEV 3: Honestly, guys, I think we should concentrate on this improving the game thingy first.
DEV 1: I appreciate you being new and all, but please stop! Further persistence on this matter may be viewed as harassment, and disciplinary action taken against you!
As someone somewhere once said, "If the gamers are talking about the devs rather than the game, you're facing a crisis". Or somesuch.
I think the devs have become so insular that they don't understand two very basic problems:
In other words, Cryptic can close off as many options as they like: exploration clusters, PvE, prior seasons' grinds and missions. Heck, they can seal off everything except DR... but that does not mean that people will play DR!
The reason I've been using doffing rather than content is because I don't like the DR content (I find it dull, poorly written, and grindy); but have been logging in to "keep the ball rolling". If they close that off, all it means is I'll log into something else.
Cryptic, here's a News Flash: you're not the only game in the universe. You've got competition. That competition is looking more attractive because of all your constant and continued stuff ups. Wasn't DR a success? So sad, too bad, learn to cope and move on.
Well I have run into this practice before. There is a business principle behind it I believe which is ,
1. Players who have been around the longest have bought everything they will buy and so cost the company money, by taking up space on the servers, (space which costs money to run for servers electricity, bandwidth etc.)
2. To increase profits you have to change the game so that they will leave. That space and the money required to keep it for that player will then be filled by a player new to the game who has nothing from the store, and they will then spend money to buy the items there, increasing the profits.
3. When the new players become old players, see number 1 above.
I actually came to the forums to see what people were saying about the cost of the Interpid. I was shocked to see there were no post on it. Then I looked again and saw what was going on.
Guys at Cryptic. All I can say is thank you. Now my time instead of being taken up by playing my ten characters, Will be cut down drastically since I will only play the one I have that is hmmmmm WAS almost to 60.
Oh well at least now I have time to spend doing things that are actually fun.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
I do have gladly only 4 more chars not on lvl 60 - and in the last days I thought how much money I do have to spend to get all the missing ship lvl ups and - because not fleet ships the ship modules. <sarcasm on> - I don't have to think about that any more - I am not going to play these chars any more - I am 53 now, and I don't want to wait to get lvl 60 before my grandchildren are seeing this world.
For me most importnat thing in the game is playing together with my other fleet members - that is not possible while lvl-ing - because everybody has another level -- and then the stf's even in advanced are realy boaring some in mission <seeing a clockcounter going down is the worsest thing I can think of - why should I use a good ship and good gear - when that doesn't matter> or they are much to easy and don't make any fun - and no real reward that would stand for the time you use for it. Or they are horrible buggy like vce in 2 of 4 times you have a buggy mission that can't be fullfilled <healing the gegli and the subspace rift> Nearly all the elite missions are still not implementeated - but it's true a bar is much more important.
With the time you do need now, to lvl you do have to make a choice - if you skill space or ground. I like going ground, but there you don't get xp - so you can't get your next spezification point - so all this get's a never ending story.
And the thing I hate most is to see that 2/3rd of the people who have been playing are not online any more.
cu and \\//
mona
I thought about this too and it makes sense in terms of where this might be coming from.
The really stupid thing about it for STO though? You're not dealing with "normal gamers" but "Star Trek fans"...
If STO players who are Star Trek Fans stop playing 'adventure-based' content, and thus no longer feel the desire to buy stuff, they'll still log in, and will hang around using STO as a giant, pretty, virtual chat room. If Cryptic's idea is to get players to nick off to let in new cashed-up payers, they're in for a very nasty surprise.
Before November 20 patch:
1 more level after attaining level 60... 54k XP
1 Argala run on normal, including the completion reward (900 xp)... approx. 5,100 XP for Kazon
After November 20 patch:
1 more level after attaining level 60... approx 150k XP
1 Argala run on normal, including the completion reward... approx. 7,600 for Kazon (haven't noticed how much the completion reward is currently on my last playthrough)
Level XP requirements almost tripled.
But not only doesn't doffing reward 3 times more XP to balance out the 3 times higher XP needs, NPC kills weren't even doubled either.
Those numbers clearly expose this paragraph from the OP's post:
as
A) lying;
There's not much worth saying about the A) possibility.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
So hard to tell, as the dev tracker is borked after page 1. Another thing on the long standing broken pile.
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
Was:
Level.............SP required
50-51...........10,000
50-52...........11,000
50-53...........18,000
50-54...........28,500
50-55...........31,500
50-56...........45,000
50-57...........49,500
50-58...........48,000
50-59...........54,000
50-60...........55,500
Argala Normal rewarded: 944
Now:
Level.............SP required
50-51...........12,500
50-52...........31,820
50-53...........51,600
50-54...........81,700
50-55...........90,300
50-56...........129,000
50-57...........137,600
50-58...........141,900
50-59...........154,800
50-60...........154,800
Argala Normal now rewards: 2730
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
Now I dont know if you are considering SP from critter kills. That is certainly going to vary greatly if you kill a lot of critters versus another with few critters (and the Delta Patrols vary greatly and each time you play many of them generate a random number of waves). But remember critters also received an increase in proportion to the new requirements.
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before. In fact, Starship Mastery will be faster since critter ships award a lot more SP and Starship Master requirement did not go up.
The main reason this change was made was there were odd discrepancies at each level causing some rewards (critter kill, doff assignments, and missions) to be lower at higher levels. The change fixes that. I give you my word no one is trying to pull a fast one on the community. It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
I hope this clears things up.
Very Best Regards,
LLAP,
-Al Captain Geko Rivera
Please remember that when you are dealing with an angry customer the last thing you want to do is be sarcastic with them.
And yes, that even includes instances where you sincerely believe that the customer is wrong. :-/
I will have to prove the numbers for myself to make a full review (as you may be aware of my ongoing review series), but regardless I would strongly advise taking my advice to heart to avoid digging yourself and your company in any deeper than you are customer-relations-wise.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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The opening sentence was clearly a playful joke. Is everyone so uptight now that no dev can make a joke without it being taken out of context?
Well then, the community gave you one : Doff XP reward are the same than before. Meaning you need 3 times more Doff missions for the same relative amount of XP.
I just checked, and missions that gave me 1202xp in the past (lvl60) still give me the same amount of XP. I don't have the exact amount for the other missions, but they look to reward the same than before, at least it's not 3times more (missions that used to reward 100ish are not rewarding 300ish right now).
I think everyone, on both sides of the fence, needs to step back and let time tell what's going on.
I personally believe nothing was intentionally nerfed. While the OP is a little confusing, I personally believe the logic to be a little sound - while it's a difference "that makes no difference" as people were decrying, I'd rather missions reward a consistent amount of XP, even if it takes just as long to level as before.
I've been watching this play out all afternoon on the forums, and I think we're still a little testy. A large number of people are riled up by the "progression" rates. Personally I don't mind - it's my inability to pug anymore that I find worrisome.
From the people complaining, I'm also willing to believe that perhaps there is a bug. I haven't been in game myself yet to check out the XP changes on what I was using to level my main (open missions on Kobali and doffing mostly), but I'll be watching as well.
In my opinion, donning the asbestos gloves and coming into the fire to deal with us is a good thing - I'd rather see responses from the folks at Cryptic rather than an increasing volume of complaining, even if the complaining is justified, and even if the responses are not what everyone wants to hear.
But - and this is a huge caveat - I'm just a guy - my opinion means no more or less than anyone else.
Thank you nakedsnake. I was just trying to be playful.
My sincere appologies if this came off snarky.
You are right, before we got 944 SP for Argala on Normal, now we get 2730. That is ok. But the problem is that the SP from npc's didn't scale up accordingly.
Yesterday I ran 5 Normal Argala missions and I would get between 4500-5000 SP. Today after the patch I also ran those 5 missions and I got between 6000-7000 SP. Which is just a difference between 2730 today we get for Normal Argala and 944 we could get yesterday.
The conclusion is SP from NPC's DID NOT scale up.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
+1
YES and rightfully so. We don't need "jokes" from the Devs, at this point in time everything that's happened since the launch of Dev's Revenge has been one big cruel joke.
Would you recommend STO to a friend?