Sad Pandas PvP - Starfleet Dental Member - Lag Industries Leader
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"What a time it was, with all the world against us, what a time it was... When all we did seemed wrong,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
Basically you install it. Then go into advanced settings and choose the option "Use DPS channel settings".
Before you start a queue you type "/combatlog 1", when the queue is over you type: "/combatlog 0"
That's it.
Thanks, I've heard it's easier to use, but I can't figure out how to install this. 6 jpegs, a gif, a png, Combat Log folder, and a META-INF folder. I'm at an installation dead end. This is what I mean by something being too technical for the average player, I have no idea if there's an .exe buried in there somewhere or not (haven't found one yet) or if I'm supposed to install it some other way, or just leave it as-is.
Your reading comprehension is a fail it seems as well. It said you failed at NOT being a jerk.
I personally could care less that your a jackass. In fact I'm probably a bigger one then you are. However if you EVER want to shed the your all elitist jerks image, you need to stop. If you don't care, then STOP ******** when people call you out on it. That is your choices. You can't be a jerk and get butt hurt when others call you a jerk.
And word have MEANING. Words are IMPORTANT. There is a damn good reason why you should not walk up to a black person and use the N word...or do you think they should "grow a set" as well? Don't be an TRIBBLE if your don't wanna be called one.
It's YOU'RE not your -- tsk, tsk, tsk. And I'm not offended or upset; I'm simply laughing how easily I can get under YOUR (see what I did there) skin.
But, alas, words are just words. Words are important in only that you use them to be accurate. But I don't understand how walking up to a african-american and calling them "N"ice is bad or offensive--well maybe if they are trying to portray themselves as a thug, then I could see that calling them Nice would be quite troublesome. Wait a minute, you mean the other N-word. Jesus dude, are you that big of a racist that you have to trot out clearly offensive language to make a point. Go check yourself and immediately seek some sensitivity training. We definitely do NOT want blatant RACISTS such as yourself in the channels. It is amazing that your mind went there so quickly. Sickening really.
So you are trying to argue that dps-10,000 is offensive. This is brand new to me. You see, I find "The Trading Channel" quite offensive. Well, because trading rarely happens--it is more of a out of game exchange. All you see is WTB and WTS -- no so many WTT
I get your frustration to a point, but you're going to have to accept that the queues are open to everyone, not just mid or high DPSers. If anyone wants a rep set, they're going to have to try to do Advanced queues for the BNPs/APCs/VCIs. There's no way around it, unless you're insinuating they should try to get them out of a rep box reward? I've been trying that with the Voth ones, I have just 3 after this long. The reality is there are going to be a lot of people hgiher DPSers consider to be sub-par trying to get what they need, whether they like it or not.
There is a private queue option specifically for people who want a no-angst run done their way. I'm pretty surprised it's not used by more folks in the high end, honestly.
Now, the chat issue. I've run across many people who don't answer the team chat, and I'm pretty sure I've done it myself. I have a habit of closing down the chat box and completely forgetting about it in social zones when I get tired of some of the chatter going on. I assume most people who don't answer have done the same. I don't complain to/about them because A.) I have no idea what's going on on their end, and B.) It would make me a hypocrite, considering -- like I said -- I'm guilty of the exact same thing.
I've been screeched at in queues before when I do have chat open. Yep, I see what you wrote there. But not all of us can type & work the keybinds in combat at the same time. That's a reality a lot of "overly verbal", to put it politely, players need to understand. You'll get a reply out of me when I have a just enough of a break in combat. I can't do both, simple as that.
Finally, and frankly, I have zero idea what my DPS is or how to easily find out. I've been playing this game for several years, and don't know my DPS. Sue me, I guess. You know what people ranting on about DPS numbers sounds like to me? A foreign language. In the simplest of parallels, it's like being yelled for not speaking Chinese in a situation where it's handy, but not necessary to know. I get what DPS is, sure, but how to boost it other than with better consoles/weapons, or find out what I'm even pulling in damage is beyond me. That software log hack or whatever it is, I've tried, and can't figure that out at all. If it's that complex to the average player, then it's a bit more technical than it needs to be for the average player, and thus, isn't really a necessity to know. That's my take, anyway. I'll not stop aiming for better weapons and consoles, though. I'm just not going to make my damage output a high priority beyond what it is already.
to clarify:
We are not frustrated over how we perform in private Queues, (see the ISA 2 min video).
We are also very aware of what our ships can and can not do in which circumstances, therefore we dont take the glasscannon into Random Queues. Therefore we mostly run private Queues organizing over the channels.
I dont really care if people answer or not, if they perform to a standart degree. If the mission is over, and I explicitly thank everyone for the game or offer some advice, some response could be due. But its really that rare that I am not really bothered. Was just a random fun-fact.
As Sarcasm said, you dont need any special gear to get to 10k. I used 200k EC on my KDF, no reputation etc, and got 20k out of it on ISE.
For explanation on how and why, see the 5 hr youtube in depth, or any of Sarcasm's guides on the DPS matter, for german readers there is Hellspawnys version of things.
I personally, do not care how good or bad you play. If you are satisfied with where you are at, I am perfectly alright with that. But please understand, that i expect the same amount of tolerance from others too. Just because we decide to push the meters and blow up the mission in 2 minutes is not sufficient reason to call us idiots or a destructive force. If someone truly believes that, i can only assume its his projection and some inferiority complexe with which we had nothing to do.
The whole post is about expressing our personal preference of trying to become better at the game. If you dont like that, no one is forcing you to join
We don't force anyone to play the way we do.
[...]
This game is an Arms-race by definition, timers on mission fail if you don't deal X amounts of DPS within the timelimit, sure it has been kinda low so far but the hp-scaling further enforced that point. You were taught over 4 years that being in the mission is enough to be rewarded, and they are breaking that mindset now. Sure its painful for everyone who was satisfied with how nice their ship looks. We just optimized on getting the job done. Can this all be done very slowly, in an inefficient way that you personally find satisfying? Probably, but why should we be forced to cater to the lowest denominator? Winning the STF is basically a foregone conclusion for us, we want to optimize within the completion of the STF. When we win ISA in 2 minutes 6 seconds, that gives another group a competitive reason to continue playing this game. To see if they can beat us on the time record.
I like to compare PvE to Golf.
On the course you fight yourself. Strive for perfection, wouldn't under par be awesome? When its done, you compare numbers.
Getting the first kill on a difficult mission is a race. Holding the speed record on a mission is a race. Holding the damage record on a mission is a race.
While on the course we enjoy good competition, when its done though, we sit down with the other competitors and drink coffe/earl grey depending on preference and reflect how we liked it.
We understand that this is highly elitist and dont force anyone to participate in it, but you have to understand that the mindset of competitive gameplay has helped us really improve on all the challenges presented, to a degree, that most people don't even understand what we are doing.
Man, if I join a PUG with other players that shovel out high DPS, that just makes the session shorter for me I just hope not to embarrass myself in front of them
Thanks, I've heard it's easier to use, but I can't figure out how to install this. 6 jpegs, a gif, a png, Combat Log folder, and a META-INF folder. I'm at an installation dead end. This is what I mean by something being too technical for the average player, I have no idea if there's an .exe buried in there somewhere or not (haven't found one yet) or if I'm supposed to install it some other way, or just leave it as-is.
If anyone wants a rep set, they're going to have to try to do Advanced queues for the BNPs/APCs/VCIs. There's no way around it, unless you're insinuating they should try to get them out of a rep box reward? I've been trying that with the Voth ones, I have just 3 after this long.
Uh, you only need Advanced queues for BNPs/APCs.
You really shouldn't be doing queues for VCIs.
I have a character who literally just entered the Dyson sphere yesterday. Following the tutorial chain of missions that makes you tour the sphere and contested zone brought me to the ground BZ, where I fought the dinosaur. Only two other players around - my BOffs died a total of 5 times - but we beat it.
She has 5 VCIs, and she's still on Tier 0 of the Dyson rep.
I've long been curious about how much damage I actually do and suspect it's a lot higher than I thought. However reading these instructions about how to install that combat log thing is above my computer ability. I would say I have zero percent chance of making it work.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I've long been curious about how much damage I actually do and suspect it's a lot higher than I thought. However reading these instructions about how to install that combat log thing is above my computer ability. I would say I have zero percent chance of making it work.
Find me in game I will help you set it up properly. It really is as easy as putting the file into a directory and then pathing to your combatlog. It seems intimidating at first, but it really, really isn't.
Now you will need at least 9k-10k DPS. This isn't an insurmountable goal. It can be done by any career of captain fresh to level 50 in any T5 ship with mk XI blue/green gear.
yep, I scored 12k in a pug yesterday in a Mega Well vesta in ISA. I have almost all blue mk XI gear and all this build does is pull all the spheres on the map into one large GW so pugs can all shoot the same targets.
ALSO:
@ sarcasmdetector and ezriryan, awesome posts and great info
I've long been curious about how much damage I actually do and suspect it's a lot higher than I thought. However reading these instructions about how to install that combat log thing is above my computer ability. I would say I have zero percent chance of making it work.
Sometimes people you pug with will post their log of the team numbers. Hopefully they don't add any Douchy comments about it when they do.
Why would you bother commenting on Ryan's post if you didn't even read what he typed out?
I read it its refers to players as scrubs and talks about channels etc... and unless he is quoting someone else and did not put the name near on it. Seemed pretty clear to me he thought of people who were in pick up groups as somehow lesser and then referred to 'carrying' them and referred to them as 'scrubs'.
I am not a scrub I am a player who simply prefers the randomness of pick up groups because once you learn the instances about all there is left to make them challenging is dealing with various playstyles and builds.
Oddly 2 of my guys would be in your top dps channel if i chose to join something like that but to be honest if i want to play like that fine but if you want to teach people leave it out of the posts it only serves to widen the divide.
leave out the words like scrub and "try harder" as the name of a channel and just deliver the information post videos and dont try to "carry" anyone. I do not want to play with people who join pugs just to "carry" the group. Please dont pug if your purpose to pug is to "carry" people and stuff.
I've long been curious about how much damage I actually do and suspect it's a lot higher than I thought. However reading these instructions about how to install that combat log thing is above my computer ability. I would say I have zero percent chance of making it work.
You do enough varied instances and eventually there's 1 person in each group sometimes that will give out a parse. You'll see how you did. See those results enough over a period of time in varied situations, then you have a clearer idea of where you sit.
Realize also that some builds dominate in a situation than others. For example, during the Tau Dewa Patrol heyday, I grouped up and the talk was about one of the guys in a Wells doing something like 39k in Beta Thoridor. In short, it was due to the very target rich mission that the patrols were. Grav Well, Dyson Grav Torp, TS3, TBR, Particle Manipulator, etc with Particle Gen Skills. As a science oriented player I know how it works. The more NPCs there are, the better when each one starts blowing up, it starts a chain reaction, and you help them along with more abilities. But I also know that in an environment with fewer or single targets, the DPS capability of such a build drops tremendously.
So much effort some put in being enemies. Why not just put effort in being friends and friendlyness. Also the dps-channels are an oppurtunity to do so and contribute to extra ingame fun. Unless trolling is your hobby.
PS: Doing DPS is just one of the many play styles. I like it a lot. In my opinion every one can play the play style they like and hopefully find others to play with. I have found many pleasent hours playing with and meeting people in the DPS-Channels.
The people who create these DPS-Channels and maintain them and so on, do a lot for people of the STO community. Several thousend people make use of those chanels. I have read the responses of people who bash arround in this topic. But I am more interested in what you have done for the STO community instead of reading trough all that bashing.
You do enough varied instances and eventually there's 1 person in each group sometimes that will give out a parse. You'll see how you did. See those results enough over a period of time in varied situations, then you have a clearer idea of where you sit.
Realize also that some builds dominate in a situation than others. For example, during the Tau Dewa Patrol heyday, I grouped up and the talk was about one of the guys in a Wells doing something like 39k in Beta Thoridor. In short, it was due to the very target rich mission that the patrols were. Grav Well, Dyson Grav Torp, TS3, TBR, Particle Manipulator, etc with Particle Gen Skills. As a science oriented player I know how it works. The more NPCs there are, the better when each one starts blowing up, it starts a chain reaction, and you help them along with more abilities. But I also know that in an environment with fewer or single targets, the DPS capability of such a build drops tremendously.
That's interesting. My first character has very potent abilities like these but I always assumed you didn't get credit for any of the ancillary damage.
I will open the chat window and see if anyone posts in the future. I admit that I leave it closed 99% of the time.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have no choice if I want to play and not punch the monitor in frustration because I failed to properly rotate from one generator to the next and no one can throw a grav well, the dps channels are the way to go. The changes cryptic implemented made pugs not an option for me. Too frustrating.
So I got my 10k and 20k invites do I just send out a request for a queue?
The thing that you seem to be overlooking is that to some people, well, this is just a game, to relax to, to have a bit of fun, not to stress themselves into an early grave learning how to be up to others standards nor to try to be the best of the best.
Before DR I got my build to 12-18k without much real effort on my fed, but, I could do what I needed to do without dying very often so I feel, well I don't need to break records, I just want to play the game with friends and do some missions and most importantly, have fun.
I've met some of you ingame in some PVEs and you've been nothing but helpful, trying to make things easier and smoother for all, you've taken time out to help people. But in the forum recently, some of your posts have been very elitist in the worst of ways.
How is "DPS-10000" or "DPS-20000" condescending or not objective?
It's a simple statement of objective fact. Do 20,000 DPS in ISA and get invited to DPS-20000.
I see so adding a commentary to the channel is objective and not insulting or belittling?
you want to help people great but try being a little less judgemental
segregation (worste word one could choose)
"scub" - is a derogative term and everyone knows it
"carry" the group - excuse me dont join any groups to carry anyone ..
now lets look at this little so called objective bit.. the channel names and how you word it all
"its depressing"
public dps is anything below 10k i guess well i am a public dps and I can do stuff in your *cough* "decent" and "try hard" channels .. just silly..
you also imply because a player is new buy using phrases like "half ways trying" for 10k dps that he is not trying.. which is condescending and insulting. You have no idea why he is doing that dps ..
so remove the judgements and really bad wording and just post info maybe you will get a much more positive response but as someone who has characters across the gammit of dps low to high I can tell you right now
i am no scrub. I dont need to "try harder" and I do not want people in my groups who join to "carry" me.. thank you very much.. go play privately ...
that would be great stay out of the public q's which will contain all kinds of PEOPLE nice players who are by no means scrubs or not trying..
since most people dont follow all the posts in other threads, this is a copy paste of Page 4 and of the ISA video thread:
This is the non-Video related discussion that ensued, which basically always comes up when people say anything related to "DPS".
Please keep in mind, that this started out as a response to some of the posts on that thread, so some of this sounds a little overly-aggressiv, but that is more due to it being directed at someone else who was trying to attack our standpoint. No offense intended ;D
Its almost depressing how far off some people are.
We never wanted that the game in general becomes overly difficult for the majority of people, we never asked for advanced (which was supposed to be the old elite) to be a 4 times increase. We asked for a new difficulty that would actually be challenging. These videos serve the purpose of showing, that the difficulty is not being increased by sliding the HP multiplier up. We, as well, never asked for the decrease in dilithium and neural processor gains from the STFs, Cryptic decided to do that on their own, and they can have all the credit for it.
Also this is to prove the point of "leveling 17 times faster", which they call an exploit. Well, if you can find it... tell us. Because we mostly didn't even level in Tau Dewa and stil got most of our points removed. My Federation toon was 2 mins 30 secs in a Charraya patrol at level 51, does that justify taking like 20 spec points away?
On another note, these videos may be used as a guideline, along with our guide videos where we explain how and why these builds work. But they do at no point force you to play anything like this. This is a suggestion and a practical display of how things can (!) be played, but not neccessarily have to be played. Therefore no one needs to feel vilified.
We offered talking to.. basically everyone of the staff we could find. To little/no effect at all.
Even though on the podcast one guy claimed he would like talking to us, trying to get into contact has thus far not worked. There have been some informal "yea we should talk" things, but as stated, nothing real ever came of it.
So we do this to raise some more attention.
If anyone on the Staff feels like talking, i am quite sure you know where to find us.
Quote from page4, but since no one bothers reading it, I copy pasta'ed it for you.
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The Scimitar Is a broken ship giving more dps from hidden perks ...nothing else explains its op firepower many other romulan ships are just as good but fall short in dps...I propose its a sell gimmick by cryptic.
<- i hope thats a troll or a good display of the delusion.
I'll leave it at that, as all the other points are just as obvious trolls.
Personally, I have always been against the numbers behind the DPS-Channels names. But.. its the easiest way to tell apart to which part of the community you currently belong.
The seggragation could also be called:
DPS- Casual (Called DPS-Public)
DPS- Half ways trying (10k)
DPS- Decent (20k)
DPS - Try-Hard (30k)
Its not a random seggregation, it actually reflects your proficiency at the game mechanics, because "gear" doesnt really play a big role in this game. We also do not exclude anyone because he is flying the wrong build. I personally did 38k the other day on a particle Generator/Torpedo build.
Every half ways good player can squeeze 10k+ out of basically every ship in the game. (Level 10 Rhode Island Sci ship for example.. So if you dont do that, you're either not applying yourself, and therefore intentionally waste everyones (including your own) time, or actually don't know whats going on.
because behind the BS of "we will teach you".. is kinda real, if you dont want our help. Thats okay, I personally dont care how good or bad you play. As long as I don't have to play with you. It's a teamgame, if you deny your responsiblity towards the team, why should I feel in any way related to you? I am not getting paid to carry anyone through this.
And behind the BS of farming dilithium, we actually try to beat the hardest challenges in the game (No-Win 2 men etc.)
(btw, did a random Queue the other day on my narcine.. Did 39k, some other guy did 21k, and then we had 3 ppl splitting up a total of 5k dps between the three of them... No communication what so ever, every attempt of mine to chat was met with utter silence. But thats just a sidenote because we are all arrogant idiots.)
Why do the guys on the Premier League not want to play with you by the way?
Actually, lets go a little more into detail here, because thats a point that rises every now and then.
This is a misconception. What you dont understand is, that in order to maximize dps even the good players have to make some trade-offs from survivability. So if you dont at least play halfways along these ships cant take the heat forever. We fully know and understand that. That is why we take those highly specialized builds into certain missions. We prepare and exploit teamplay, if that is too much cheating, or effort for you. I am sorry, but I dont see how I am supposed to talk about your personal preferences.
Specializing in certain things allows you to achieve far higher results though... 2 Men no win scenario is a good example... Why can we beat it with 2 players, while most cant with 5?
No, thats because they underperform from an objective point of view: Combatlog doesn't read out your feelings, but your contribution to the teams victory, if you win it. Sure, its not 100% accurate, there is some fake-damage. But all the effects are miniscule usually. And if that gets us killed or we have to carry him entirely through there, then yes. We are not getting paid enough to pain ourselves watching how you fail south with 3 players.
If you do under 10k DPS in this game, you are currently not interested in dealing damage. Thats fine by me, but dont expect me to try carrying you through for free. Its not a seggregation of people I like, versus people I dont like. Its about people that apply themselves and people that dont f.ing care about gameplay, but go to the forums to explain why what they do should be valid, while there is no reflection of that in the actual gameplay.
The arbitrariness of these numbers is so low, that if you halfways think about what u'r doing, you will find it not difficult to get into 10k.
Its a line between players that will work things out, do some testing and get the mission done..
versus people that will then take those results and get the mission done;
versus people that you need to take by the hand and walk through it, but yet willing to improve;
versus people that explain to you, why you are the real problem and they dont want your solution, even if you clearly showed that it worked.
Let me actually quote a book:
,,The Scrub Mentality
"Scrub" is not a term I made up. It sounds like kind of a harsh term, but it's the one that was already in common usage in games to describe a certain type of player, and it made more sense to me to explain that rather than to coin a new term.
A scrub is not just a bad player. Everyone needs time to learn a game and get to a point where they know what they're doing. The scrub mentality is to be so shackled by self-imposed handicaps as to never have any hope of being truly good at a game. You can practice forever, but if you can't get over these common hangups, in a sense you've lost before you even started. You've lost before you even picked which game to play. You aren't playing to win.
A scrub would disagree with this though. They'd say they are trying very hard. The problem is they are only trying hard within a construct of fictitious rules that prevent them from ever truly competing.
"That's Cheap!"
Scrubs are likely to label a wide variety of moves and tactics as "cheap." For example, performing a throw in fighting games is often called cheap. A throw is a move that grabs an opponent and damages them even while they're defending against all other kinds of attacks. Throws exist specifically to allow you to damage opponents who block and don't attack.
As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the designit's meant to be thereyet scrubs construct their own set of principles that state they should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. Scrubs think of blocking as a kind of magic shield which will protect them indefinitely. Throwing violates the rules in their heads even though it doesn't violate any actual game rule.
A scrub would not throw their opponent 5 times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimize your chances of winning? It's "cheap," though, throwing is cheap. And it's not just throwing, it's also a long list of somewhat arbitrary maneuvers. If you keep a scrub away from you by zoning them with projectile attacks, you'll probably be called cheap. If you do one move over and over, that's cheap. If you get a lead, then do nothing for 30 seconds so that you can win by time-out, that's cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap.
Let's specifically consider the case where you do one move over and over. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Are they such a poor player that they can't counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn't you be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. The game knows no rules of "honor" or of "cheapness." The game only knows winning and losing.
"It's Not Fun To Play That Way"
This might be true, or it might not be, depending on the game. The scrub mentality is to make this claim for basically all games though so beware of that."
We are all proud of your carrying skills, but if you want to become a better player, you need to try out new things, specialize in certain things and compare/gauge how you are doing. If you don't do that, you'll not improve, and therefore be left behind by everyone willing to improve.
We also dont cherry pick anything, we just offer assistance to players across the board: DPS-public is the entry level channel, and doesnt require you to jump over anything. But lets turn this around, how about you try to improve?
We don't force anyone to play the way we do.
(go read page 4 guys.)
If you decide that what we do is all wrong and against you playstyle thats fine, but please realize, that are not being paid to carry you through any of this, even though we do it every now and then (random Qs for fun). You have to understand, that from a 10 to 25k perspective it looks intentional if you deal 3k dps, which a freshly unboxed ship, not equipped with any consoles or bridge officers can pull, just by allocating power to weapons and shooting.
This game is an Arms-race by definition, timers on mission fail if you don't deal X amounts of DPS within the timelimit, sure it has been kinda low so far but the hp-scaling further enforced that point. You were taught over 4 years that being in the mission is enough to be rewarded, and they are breaking that mindset now. Sure its painful for everyone who was satisfied with how nice their ship looks. We just optimized on getting the job done. Can this all be done very slowly, in an inefficient way that you personally find satisfying? Probably, but why should we be forced to cater to the lowest denominator? Winning the STF is basically a foregone conclusion for us, we want to optimize within the completion of the STF. When we win ISA in 2 minutes 6 seconds, that gives another group a competitive reason to continue playing this game. To see if they can beat us on the time record.
I like to compare PvE to Golf.
On the course you fight yourself. Strive for perfection, wouldn't under par be awesome? When its done, you compare numbers.
Getting the first kill on a difficult mission is a race. Holding the speed record on a mission is a race. Holding the damage record on a mission is a race.
While on the course we enjoy good competition, when its done though, we sit down with the other competitors and drink coffe/earl grey depending on preference and reflect how we liked it.
We understand that this is highly elitist and dont force anyone to participate in it, but you have to understand that the mindset of competitive gameplay has helped us really improve on all the challenges presented, to a degree, that most people don't even understand what we are doing.
best regards
RyanSTO
You just reinforced every criticism about you really. The DPS channel crowd, is a bunch of elitist braggards that do nothing for this game or this community. Doing whatever DPS level you've achieved means nothing to anyone but you and your buddies and the few peeps that swing from your nuts.
You guys are entertaining though and have provided me with many laughs as you proclaim your piloting skill and how gear and ships don't matter when in fact it's the opposite that's true. Gear and ships matter way too much in this game. News flash for you guys: skilled gamers don't play Star Trek Online. There off playing better more balanced games and most likely PvP at that.
There is little to no skill needed to do well at any PvE content in this game. An understanding of game mechanics is not skill. Reading tool tips and min-maxing for DPS is not skill
Captain Geko specifically said once in a pod-cast, that these items and mechanics are there for Min-Maxers to feel like special snowflakes when they put 2+2 together.
Fact is, there is a lot of us that don't do high DPS because frankly we don't care to. That's not what this game is about for us and we don't care if you don't want to team with us or not and since you can't team kick people in this game then you can all stick to your little channels.
It's really funny how you guys complain about having to carry anyone through a mission. In other games (where there is real skill involved) being able to carry a team is a thing to be proud of and those that do carry teams and looked up to and respected. But you guys don't get that respect because of your elitist attitudes and never ending forum bragging.
Let me tell you what happens when you reach 20k in a pug:
1. All the aggro will be focused on you
2. You will die
3. The pug will fail because the other players don't do enough damage
4. One hour cooldown and 10 marks
So if you want to, like win, you are now forced to congregate with like minded individuals that choose to push the dps limits. Unless you enjoy steps 1-4.
I had this "discussion" a few days back with another player after we were in an stf together. At the end the parse looked something like me 20 something k and the rest like two with 5-6k and two more with 1-2k dps. Was an ISA. Well after i posted the dps log i was nice enough to add that I would ask them to not play advanced queues cause they are not ready for it.
Then one of them wrote to me and we got in this kind of argument which is at the core of this thread:
Its not me that made the mission this way. Thats all on cryptic. If there are say 20mil hps to be killed then its just a simple math thing to say well if we have 5k dps total this will take about 4k seconds which is about an hour and 45mins or something.
Its not about being nice or not its about simple math and cryptic devs are the ones that set up the equation not me nor anybody from the dps leagues.
It may feel like elitism sometimes and we all know that there are those in the dps league who like to feel like they are Q knows who but well bad apples are everywhere. There are also quite nice and helpful ppl in those channels ready to help you on a moments notice with advice builds and whatever else you have going on.
And on the scrub part of the OP well i kind of recognized myself alot in this. I like to advanced to parse dps and get better but there are certain things I really dont enjoy. I really *really* hate the scim. I got it all three in all their uglyness but i almost never use them. I soend a lot to get other ships that do half the dmg but are much more fun for me to play with like say the rom temp escort or the recluse. I will never to top prime dps in those but i get to 30k or even more and thats enough for me. I dont like kamikaze builds which most of the top tier dps builds are. I like tanking. I know its mostly stupid in this game but i just love my fed eng. It does nice enough dmg but will never reach top tier.
My point is not every dps guy out there is a mean elitist although certainly some are as are some with only 1k dps. In the end its a number generated by the game and has nothing to do with you personally. It may show that you have playstyles that arent really compatible with the game and what the game may ask of you to improve may be more than you are willing to do but in the end the stf numbers game stays whatever the devs make them out to be so dont be mad at other players when they tell you are failing in this numbers game set up by cryptic.
Be mad at the devs for promoting strange playstyles or totally abandon the small player as they did with this current "difficulty" setup. Thats where your anger belongs. Forget about those few a*holed who think they are the center or sto because they do more dmg than you do. I could also point out enough low dps casuals who really like to ruin missions just for the fun of it.
Its just that all this anger between playerd is mostly caused by bad player/difficulty management by cryptic. Its their job to make the game as playable as possible for everyone. And this bad management means that currently there may be no real mission for you as normal is too easy and advanced to hard or something.
I see so adding a commentary to the channel is objective and not insulting or belittling?
you want to help people great but try being a little less judgemental
segregation (worste word one could choose)
"scub" - is a derogative term and everyone knows it
"carry" the group - excuse me dont join any groups to carry anyone ..
now lets look at this little so called objective bit.. the channel names and how you word it all
"its depressing"
public dps is anything below 10k i guess well i am a public dps and I can do stuff in your *cough* "decent" and "try hard" channels .. just silly..
you also imply because a player is new buy using phrases like "half ways trying" for 10k dps that he is not trying.. which is condescending and insulting. You have no idea why he is doing that dps ..
so remove the judgements and really bad wording and just post info maybe you will get a much more positive response but as someone who has characters across the gammit of dps low to high I can tell you right now
i am no scrub. I dont need to "try harder" and I do not want people in my groups who join to "carry" me.. thank you very much.. go play privately ...
that would be great stay out of the public q's which will contain all kinds of PEOPLE nice players who are by no means scrubs or not trying..
Fine a have read your tekst and opinions. But can you now please be a bit more friendly and less hostile in your writings yourself? Is that possible?
Comments
o' realy?
Are you sure?
Really sure?
http://i.imgur.com/kTRthms.jpg
negating evidence, how funny
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
Thanks, I've heard it's easier to use, but I can't figure out how to install this. 6 jpegs, a gif, a png, Combat Log folder, and a META-INF folder. I'm at an installation dead end. This is what I mean by something being too technical for the average player, I have no idea if there's an .exe buried in there somewhere or not (haven't found one yet) or if I'm supposed to install it some other way, or just leave it as-is.
It's YOU'RE not your -- tsk, tsk, tsk. And I'm not offended or upset; I'm simply laughing how easily I can get under YOUR (see what I did there) skin.
But, alas, words are just words. Words are important in only that you use them to be accurate. But I don't understand how walking up to a african-american and calling them "N"ice is bad or offensive--well maybe if they are trying to portray themselves as a thug, then I could see that calling them Nice would be quite troublesome. Wait a minute, you mean the other N-word. Jesus dude, are you that big of a racist that you have to trot out clearly offensive language to make a point. Go check yourself and immediately seek some sensitivity training. We definitely do NOT want blatant RACISTS such as yourself in the channels. It is amazing that your mind went there so quickly. Sickening really.
So you are trying to argue that dps-10,000 is offensive. This is brand new to me. You see, I find "The Trading Channel" quite offensive. Well, because trading rarely happens--it is more of a out of game exchange. All you see is WTB and WTS -- no so many WTT
But I digress.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
to clarify:
We are not frustrated over how we perform in private Queues, (see the ISA 2 min video).
We are also very aware of what our ships can and can not do in which circumstances, therefore we dont take the glasscannon into Random Queues. Therefore we mostly run private Queues organizing over the channels.
I dont really care if people answer or not, if they perform to a standart degree. If the mission is over, and I explicitly thank everyone for the game or offer some advice, some response could be due. But its really that rare that I am not really bothered. Was just a random fun-fact.
As Sarcasm said, you dont need any special gear to get to 10k. I used 200k EC on my KDF, no reputation etc, and got 20k out of it on ISE.
For explanation on how and why, see the 5 hr youtube in depth, or any of Sarcasm's guides on the DPS matter, for german readers there is Hellspawnys version of things.
I personally, do not care how good or bad you play. If you are satisfied with where you are at, I am perfectly alright with that. But please understand, that i expect the same amount of tolerance from others too. Just because we decide to push the meters and blow up the mission in 2 minutes is not sufficient reason to call us idiots or a destructive force. If someone truly believes that, i can only assume its his projection and some inferiority complexe with which we had nothing to do.
The whole post is about expressing our personal preference of trying to become better at the game. If you dont like that, no one is forcing you to join
Try this post: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=20298491&postcount=43
Uh, you only need Advanced queues for BNPs/APCs.
You really shouldn't be doing queues for VCIs.
I have a character who literally just entered the Dyson sphere yesterday. Following the tutorial chain of missions that makes you tour the sphere and contested zone brought me to the ground BZ, where I fought the dinosaur. Only two other players around - my BOffs died a total of 5 times - but we beat it.
She has 5 VCIs, and she's still on Tier 0 of the Dyson rep.
Well, we all need ditch diggers too. So go be the best ditch digger you can!!!! I'm pulling for ya.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE7BFw1qu58
Find me in game I will help you set it up properly. It really is as easy as putting the file into a directory and then pathing to your combatlog. It seems intimidating at first, but it really, really isn't.
Find me in-game: @porchsong
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
yep, I scored 12k in a pug yesterday in a Mega Well vesta in ISA. I have almost all blue mk XI gear and all this build does is pull all the spheres on the map into one large GW so pugs can all shoot the same targets.
ALSO:
@ sarcasmdetector and ezriryan, awesome posts and great info
@ porchsong and giotariz....you're not helping...
Sometimes people you pug with will post their log of the team numbers. Hopefully they don't add any Douchy comments about it when they do.
For a good laugh about the topic, check this comic:
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/447
I read it its refers to players as scrubs and talks about channels etc... and unless he is quoting someone else and did not put the name near on it. Seemed pretty clear to me he thought of people who were in pick up groups as somehow lesser and then referred to 'carrying' them and referred to them as 'scrubs'.
I am not a scrub I am a player who simply prefers the randomness of pick up groups because once you learn the instances about all there is left to make them challenging is dealing with various playstyles and builds.
Oddly 2 of my guys would be in your top dps channel if i chose to join something like that but to be honest if i want to play like that fine but if you want to teach people leave it out of the posts it only serves to widen the divide.
leave out the words like scrub and "try harder" as the name of a channel and just deliver the information post videos and dont try to "carry" anyone. I do not want to play with people who join pugs just to "carry" the group. Please dont pug if your purpose to pug is to "carry" people and stuff.
You do enough varied instances and eventually there's 1 person in each group sometimes that will give out a parse. You'll see how you did. See those results enough over a period of time in varied situations, then you have a clearer idea of where you sit.
Realize also that some builds dominate in a situation than others. For example, during the Tau Dewa Patrol heyday, I grouped up and the talk was about one of the guys in a Wells doing something like 39k in Beta Thoridor. In short, it was due to the very target rich mission that the patrols were. Grav Well, Dyson Grav Torp, TS3, TBR, Particle Manipulator, etc with Particle Gen Skills. As a science oriented player I know how it works. The more NPCs there are, the better when each one starts blowing up, it starts a chain reaction, and you help them along with more abilities. But I also know that in an environment with fewer or single targets, the DPS capability of such a build drops tremendously.
PS: Doing DPS is just one of the many play styles. I like it a lot. In my opinion every one can play the play style they like and hopefully find others to play with. I have found many pleasent hours playing with and meeting people in the DPS-Channels.
The people who create these DPS-Channels and maintain them and so on, do a lot for people of the STO community. Several thousend people make use of those chanels. I have read the responses of people who bash arround in this topic. But I am more interested in what you have done for the STO community instead of reading trough all that bashing.
That's interesting. My first character has very potent abilities like these but I always assumed you didn't get credit for any of the ancillary damage.
I will open the chat window and see if anyone posts in the future. I admit that I leave it closed 99% of the time.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I want to thank you with this kawai video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZGJOcZ9LnQ
And no, you're right, 30k isnt a lot, because we are okay with people having different playstyles.
While we are the one's who, according to the "playstyler's" should excuse ourselves for our elitist attitude that ruins the game for everyone.
So I got my 10k and 20k invites do I just send out a request for a queue?
See, this is why he said you didn't read it.
That section literally begins with "Let me actually quote a book:", and ends with "David Sirlin, Playing to win" followed by a link: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win
I don't know what channels you're on, but it doesn't appear to be any of the ones we're on.
Before DR I got my build to 12-18k without much real effort on my fed, but, I could do what I needed to do without dying very often so I feel, well I don't need to break records, I just want to play the game with friends and do some missions and most importantly, have fun.
I've met some of you ingame in some PVEs and you've been nothing but helpful, trying to make things easier and smoother for all, you've taken time out to help people. But in the forum recently, some of your posts have been very elitist in the worst of ways.
I see so adding a commentary to the channel is objective and not insulting or belittling?
you want to help people great but try being a little less judgemental
segregation (worste word one could choose)
"scub" - is a derogative term and everyone knows it
"carry" the group - excuse me dont join any groups to carry anyone ..
now lets look at this little so called objective bit.. the channel names and how you word it all
"its depressing"
public dps is anything below 10k i guess well i am a public dps and I can do stuff in your *cough* "decent" and "try hard" channels .. just silly..
you also imply because a player is new buy using phrases like "half ways trying" for 10k dps that he is not trying.. which is condescending and insulting. You have no idea why he is doing that dps ..
so remove the judgements and really bad wording and just post info maybe you will get a much more positive response but as someone who has characters across the gammit of dps low to high I can tell you right now
i am no scrub. I dont need to "try harder" and I do not want people in my groups who join to "carry" me.. thank you very much.. go play privately ...
that would be great stay out of the public q's which will contain all kinds of PEOPLE nice players who are by no means scrubs or not trying..
You just reinforced every criticism about you really. The DPS channel crowd, is a bunch of elitist braggards that do nothing for this game or this community. Doing whatever DPS level you've achieved means nothing to anyone but you and your buddies and the few peeps that swing from your nuts.
You guys are entertaining though and have provided me with many laughs as you proclaim your piloting skill and how gear and ships don't matter when in fact it's the opposite that's true. Gear and ships matter way too much in this game. News flash for you guys: skilled gamers don't play Star Trek Online. There off playing better more balanced games and most likely PvP at that.
There is little to no skill needed to do well at any PvE content in this game. An understanding of game mechanics is not skill. Reading tool tips and min-maxing for DPS is not skill
Captain Geko specifically said once in a pod-cast, that these items and mechanics are there for Min-Maxers to feel like special snowflakes when they put 2+2 together.
Fact is, there is a lot of us that don't do high DPS because frankly we don't care to. That's not what this game is about for us and we don't care if you don't want to team with us or not and since you can't team kick people in this game then you can all stick to your little channels.
It's really funny how you guys complain about having to carry anyone through a mission. In other games (where there is real skill involved) being able to carry a team is a thing to be proud of and those that do carry teams and looked up to and respected. But you guys don't get that respect because of your elitist attitudes and never ending forum bragging.
1. All the aggro will be focused on you
2. You will die
3. The pug will fail because the other players don't do enough damage
4. One hour cooldown and 10 marks
So if you want to, like win, you are now forced to congregate with like minded individuals that choose to push the dps limits. Unless you enjoy steps 1-4.
Then one of them wrote to me and we got in this kind of argument which is at the core of this thread:
Its not me that made the mission this way. Thats all on cryptic. If there are say 20mil hps to be killed then its just a simple math thing to say well if we have 5k dps total this will take about 4k seconds which is about an hour and 45mins or something.
Its not about being nice or not its about simple math and cryptic devs are the ones that set up the equation not me nor anybody from the dps leagues.
It may feel like elitism sometimes and we all know that there are those in the dps league who like to feel like they are Q knows who but well bad apples are everywhere. There are also quite nice and helpful ppl in those channels ready to help you on a moments notice with advice builds and whatever else you have going on.
And on the scrub part of the OP well i kind of recognized myself alot in this. I like to advanced to parse dps and get better but there are certain things I really dont enjoy. I really *really* hate the scim. I got it all three in all their uglyness but i almost never use them. I soend a lot to get other ships that do half the dmg but are much more fun for me to play with like say the rom temp escort or the recluse. I will never to top prime dps in those but i get to 30k or even more and thats enough for me. I dont like kamikaze builds which most of the top tier dps builds are. I like tanking. I know its mostly stupid in this game but i just love my fed eng. It does nice enough dmg but will never reach top tier.
My point is not every dps guy out there is a mean elitist although certainly some are as are some with only 1k dps. In the end its a number generated by the game and has nothing to do with you personally. It may show that you have playstyles that arent really compatible with the game and what the game may ask of you to improve may be more than you are willing to do but in the end the stf numbers game stays whatever the devs make them out to be so dont be mad at other players when they tell you are failing in this numbers game set up by cryptic.
Be mad at the devs for promoting strange playstyles or totally abandon the small player as they did with this current "difficulty" setup. Thats where your anger belongs. Forget about those few a*holed who think they are the center or sto because they do more dmg than you do. I could also point out enough low dps casuals who really like to ruin missions just for the fun of it.
Its just that all this anger between playerd is mostly caused by bad player/difficulty management by cryptic. Its their job to make the game as playable as possible for everyone. And this bad management means that currently there may be no real mission for you as normal is too easy and advanced to hard or something.
Fine a have read your tekst and opinions. But can you now please be a bit more friendly and less hostile in your writings yourself? Is that possible?