Two things:
1) I said in there it wasn't a perfect idea. But if you pay attention, they would have to ACTUALLY hit the console themselves. They'd at least have to try and fulfill each role of the mission.
It wouldn't get everyone, but it would get some of them. Unlike a gear score that they can just buy their way past.
2) How are we defining carried? The guy with low DPS or the guy who stands there and just shoots at whatever he sees and has no clue how to do the mission? Because personally I'd rather get rid of the latter, on a lot of these missions he messes up the optional or ragequits when we need a full team to actually complete the last part.
Yeah then that doesn't work...in case you haven't noticed MMO mentality is *That's Mine!* so what you have is five people in a rush to do this console or that console and you don't get the accolade(s) you need because everyone has to use it.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
...and so yeah, I can easily see recommending that folks avoid Elite pug queues like the plague.
Recommending people to avoid PUGs is one thing and your choice. Asking the developer to completely remove the PUG option from elite queues just because you or a number of other people don't like them is an entirely different thing.
Yeah then that doesn't work...in case you haven't noticed MMO mentality is *That's Mine!* so what you have is five people in a rush to do this console or that console and you don't get the accolade(s) you need because everyone has to use it.
Well, the gear score idea is not better and I think worse.
Recommending people to avoid PUGs is one thing and your choice. Asking the developer to completely remove the PUG option from elite queues just because you or a number of other people don't like them is an entirely different thing.
All I freaking do is pug. I'm not a member of any fleet. I don't run with any friends. I don't hit up any pugmade channels. All I freaking do is pug. For almost a thousand days...all I've done is pug. I couldn't even guess how many toons I've geared up - since even now I still delete and reroll toons. I just deleted 7 guys that were T5 in each rep. I deleted 9 guys at the end of 2013. All I do is pug...
...and based on that experience...
...and based on what the blog said...
...I can't see why Cryptic would offer a pug option for the new Elites outside of them wanting to troll the playerbase - get a little passive-aggressive action going on their part.
All I freaking do is pug. I'm not a member of any fleet. I don't run with any friends. I don't hit up any pugmade channels. All I freaking do is pug. For almost a thousand days...all I've done is pug. I couldn't even guess how many toons I've geared up - since even now I still delete and reroll toons. I just deleted 7 guys that were T5 in each rep. I deleted 9 guys at the end of 2013. All I do is pug...
...and based on that experience...
...and based on what the blog said...
...I can't see why Cryptic would offer a pug option for the new Elites outside of them wanting to troll the playerbase - get a little passive-aggressive action going on their part.
You can't see why and that's your issue. I can see why they left the option and so can Cryptic aparently. And it is a good thing.
If people don't want to PUG elites they can make privates just as if the PUG option never existed. I couldn't fathom why people would want to rob other people of an option they have no intention of using themselves.
You can't see why and that's your issue. I can see why they left the option and so can Cryptic aparently. And it is a good thing.
If people don't want to PUG elites they can make privates just as if the PUG option never existed. I couldn't fathom why people would want to rob other people of an option they have no intention of using themselves.
Here here!
Cryptic knows who butters their bread: the pugs. So we will not be going anywhere.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
See....I really don't share the same level of resentment towards PUGs that some people here aparently do. And I do PUGs most of the time in this game. And what you're saying here is comming off as extremely elitist.
I used to play estfs in channels but I find pugs more fun as theres an element of randomness - its the horror of the almost failed optional and the fight back, be it solo or with all hands on deck, launching everything in a do or die manuever - perfection is overated if its for fun in my opinion. Of course if one is grinding like its a job, then pugging is athema to that method of 'play'
What most of you, I respectfully feel, is that you forget pugging is how most estf players start - poor gear, not repped out yet, not knowing the ins and outs of the game - these players have to pug as elitists are playing elsewhere and unless they are lucky, they have no strong fleet to back them up (lets face it, most strong fleets are full to the brim) and help them learn. Now naturally they should do normal but with human nature, one follows the largest rewards - and this is where 'elder puggers' come in, by our actions and occasional rapidly typed 'attack only one side!", teaching them by absorption to play
In turn they will learn the game for themselves and become the estfers that either pug or see themselves now above that
As to the New elite, I expect the majority of puggers will dabble with Elite then gravitate to advanced if the reward is not worth the effort (aka blowing up the second a borg sphere looks at them due to not having 2million dils worth of mk14 shield). I could likely see a puggable ISE but beyond that, the other missions will be elitestfists (?) only
First of all... in STO there are too many variables for this to work...
Second: Gearscore in any form is completely useless, it justs says something about your frakkin' gear and absolutely NOTHING about your skill!
All it will do is make the already hostile Elitist even more hostile and give them a justification for being arrogant and snobbish about it, people will be left behind, even now people don't "teach" new players that stuff and this would only get worse.
Yup, I've seen plenty of people in the CE event go in there with awesome gear, but crappy use/slotting of boff abilities. Seeing the CE buff up that damage 100+ time sucked.
Eh, whatever. I am a distinctly average player, but I'm in a big fleet with lots of dil-farming alts, so I can afford the best gear despite my inability to use it to its fullest.
I couldn't fathom why people would want to rob other people of an option they have no intention of using themselves.
Because I don't want to see all the crying and asking for nerfs that will come from it. I don't want to log on to the forum and see countless threads from people with the same complaints over and over and over again...
I even forgot to reslot the T2 Rep Traits after switching out a BOFF. He's only T2. He's only looking at...
[System] Geist has been on active duty for 3 days, 7 hours, 16 minutes, 29 seconds.
...where most of that has been AFK sitting in Sector Space somewhere while on the forums or watching TV.
With just 4 Rare Mk XI [Acc]x2 Disruptor Arrays, with a Rare Mk XI Induction Coil, the Multi-Relay, and 2pc bonus...just those four weapons, that was 2,502.2 DPS. More than the last two guys...
I should have been the one that at the end of that said, "Sorry, guys. Thanks!" My performance was embarrassing. It usually is...but unfortunately, there are usually folks chasing butterflies that can result in one of my TRIBBLE 5-8k DPS boats being at the top instead of the bottom.
The only reason that I can see somebody asking that Elite pug queues exist is in the hopes of being carried...hoping that somebody else will earn them their reward as they coast through.
Cause when those 1-2k DPS folks show up for the new Elite...they're spot would have been better used by giving somebody else another hangar of pets.
Why can't folks accept their level of play? Why are they such special snowflakes they have to think they're elite when they're not? I know I'm not...it's not hard...just drop the entitlement garbage and its easy.
Ah I guess you forget that not everyone wants to chat about boys in some elite chat channel for 3 hours while waiting for Timmy and Jamie to do their hair and sit back down to play.
If you want to do private do it and leave us alone.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Ah I guess you forget that not everyone wants to chat about boys in some elite chat channel for 3 hours while waiting for Timmy and Jamie to do their hair and sit back down to play.
If you want to do private do it and leave us alone.
actually, clown, it is. i'll take you on in any reading comprehension test. or any liberal artsy test you like.
i also have no problems whatsoever in our current elite pugs. people will figure out what to do in the new ones soon enough. i have no worries.
if you are so concerned by all means make a private team. why push so hard on this subject eh? what's you're real goal?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
"This is not a mode we expect all players to be able to eventually complete. This is a mode that will result in many failed attempts before a successful strategy is struck upon, and even then, that strategy should take practice and precision to pull off on a continual basis."
What part of that suggests it being something open to pugs?
What part of that suggests that it will lead to anything but frustration for pugs?
We are fully cognizant that there will be complaints that it's too hard. We have no intention of going back on Elite and making it easier to achieve. This is the brass ring for you all to aspire to.
If anything our worry is that one or two might be too easy compared to the rest. We'll take steps to remedy those situations asap.
actually, clown, it is. i'll take you on in any reading comprehension test. or any liberal artsy test you like.
I didn't say reading comprehension...I said reading. You've read multiple replies from me stating the opposite of what you've said in reply to them multiple times. You're not bothering to read...you're just blathering on.
"This is not a mode we expect all players to be able to eventually complete. This is a mode that will result in many failed attempts before a successful strategy is struck upon, and even then, that strategy should take practice and precision to pull off on a continual basis."
What part of that suggests it being something open to pugs?
What part of that suggests that it will lead to anything but frustration for pugs?
I agree that there should be a gear score gate, or a strong DPS check gate, or simply no public que for the Elite Option.
I also endorse that other fellows right to talk about boys in private and not in public channels.
Everyone needs an outlet, he's welcome to it I suppose.
Virus you remember the old Molten Core check. The trash at the very entrance was difficult enough that if you couldn't down them easily you had no hope for the rest of the raid. That isn't a bad strategy for design. Although that level of DPS isn't needed for the entire raid, any raid that couldn't do that level on demand would have no hope of mastering the mechanic fights.
Anyways cheers and yes you are awful. Pug away my friend!
I didn't say reading comprehension...I said reading. You've read multiple replies from me stating the opposite of what you've said in reply to them multiple times. You're not bothering to read...you're just blathering on.
eh boy you're a real piece of work aren't you. i read and comprehend all you've said here and i guarantee you this is just the same old leet raider garbage argument hidden in sweet kitten form.
for about the 10th time - if you don't want to pug elite don't. let those of us who want to do. why will it hurt you so for people to be able to pug?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The only reason that I can see somebody asking that Elite pug queues exist is in the hopes of being carried...hoping that somebody else will earn them their reward as they coast through.
Just because it's the only reason you can see doesn't mean it's the only reason.
While you've cleverly attempted to camouflage it with some "humble bragging", your disdain of the 'unwashed masses' is exhibit A of the very behavior many people are worried about.
Because I don't want to see all the crying and asking for nerfs that will come from it. I don't want to log on to the forum and see countless threads from people with the same complaints over and over and over again...
You know that there are a couple of easier fixes to that than demanding Cryptic to program the content to not allow PUGs, right? Like you not logging into the forum or ignoring such threads for ex.
I even forgot to reslot the T2 Rep Traits after switching out a BOFF. He's only T2. He's only looking at...
[System] Geist has been on active duty for 3 days, 7 hours, 16 minutes, 29 seconds.
...where most of that has been AFK sitting in Sector Space somewhere while on the forums or watching TV.
With just 4 Rare Mk XI [Acc]x2 Disruptor Arrays, with a Rare Mk XI Induction Coil, the Multi-Relay, and 2pc bonus...just those four weapons, that was 2,502.2 DPS. More than the last two guys...
Nope, that's not how a PUG queue goes. That's how a DPS parser goes. A PUG queue goes with me entering a STF with some random people, flying my favourite ship and having fun. If it happens to fail, so be it - I'll get it next time. It's a game, it's not my real life. If I fail a STF I won't get sacked or lose my job. I'm playing a game to waste some free time and have fun while I do it, not to be pressured wheather my PUG team will fail sth. or not.
I should have been the one that at the end of that said, "Sorry, guys. Thanks!" My performance was embarrassing. It usually is...but unfortunately, there are usually folks chasing butterflies that can result in one of my TRIBBLE 5-8k DPS boats being at the top instead of the bottom.
That's true. And that's a chance you consciously take before queuing a PUG. If you don't want to deal with such risk, you do privates with people you know and trust.
The only reason that I can see somebody asking that Elite pug queues exist is in the hopes of being carried...hoping that somebody else will earn them their reward as they coast through.
Ah yes, just because I don't think the same way you do it means that I want to be carried through elites! :rolleyes:
Why can't folks accept their level of play? Why are they such special snowflakes they have to think they're elite when they're not? I know I'm not...it's not hard...just drop the entitlement garbage and its easy.
Assuming much are we now? I'm not defending my position because of entitlement, in fact I'll probably mostly be in the 'advanced' queues when DR comes. I may do elites for fun with freinds and fleetmates. I'm not a power gamer or obsessed with DPS, so it'll probably be a long time before I feel I have a capable build to cruise trough an elite. I'd still like to have the option though, just in case I log-in during odd hours once in a while and I feel like doing an elite STF. Is this really that hard to understand?
The situation here is that if someone doesn't want to PUG, they can do private just as if the PUG option never existed. They can just ignore their existence completely.
What your position boils down to is - I think Cryptic should completely remove elite PUGs because I don't want to read forum threads of people whining about failed STFs. I don't feel I need to explain how selfish that sounds.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,713Community Moderator
edited September 2014
The only thing a Gear Score will do is alienate everyone who isn't the hardcore "Must have best shiny" people. I'm pretty causal, yet I can hold my own in most PvE situations. I amy not be nuking everything in sight, but I don't go down easy either. Unless its the dreaded Invisitorp. That still hurts.
Your gear isn't the only factor, as current Elite level content can be done with mk X white gear and maybe even T3 ships. Heck... some fleets actually do low tier STF runs for fun!
Gear Score means squat in STO, and just gives the elitest people a reason to discriminate against everyone else even more than they do now.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Neverwinter has this system where gear is given scores. You can't enter certain content unless you hit that score. This basically stops people from entering an area or mission they would not have a hope of surviving.
With the introduction of new difficulty settings, with failure conditions and the worry that people will be turning up in mirandas and blowing the mission for everyone else (where as now you can carry those people through the event with ease) I think this might be a good idea.
I'm not suggesting the score has to be set too high as I'm sure lots of people don't want to feel like they are blocked from playing a mission just because they are not quite up to scratch but i think it would not only serve as a good indication as to how powerful you should be to enter a mission and it will certainly weed out the really under powered and under equipped players who are going to do nothing but TRIBBLE things up.
I don't think it would be needed on normal, and perhaps only a suggestion for advanced, but for elites which is designed for the best of the best, having an entry bar would be a good thing.
First this would only apply to public queues, and not private. Private should be open for people to try and play it however they like and is up to them to sort it out.
As long as other people can't actually see the score, yes. If other people can see the score, no.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
We've mentioned DPS channels and elite pug lines.... Is there a casual pug channel, then? For people who just need someone to team up with to play without being frustrated and who aren't worried about if they fail the mission?
the correct answer is to create accolades.. you get an accolade for completing the STF (including optionals). you cannot advance to the next level STF until you have completed ALL the appropriate STFs (Space or ground)
That would be easy..... 1 useless person like me being carried by a group would soon get them done.
I think it's time WoW players Went Back To WoW. People come to games like this to escape the cesspoll that game has become, why is this so hard to see? Dps this, Gearscore that, Threads like this are like nightmares coming into reality.
IF there would be a block on T4 ships going into this new "elite" system, Ok, I would also propose someone not be allowed to queue up for Anything with existing injuries either ground or space. Temporary blocks due to trolling, things of that nature. There is no reason to further foster a WoW community here.
There are better options than taking this game and pouring the blue goo TRIBBLE collector from a full portapotty all over it. Leave WoW IN WoW
I agree that there should be a gear score gate, or a strong DPS check gate, or simply no public que for the Elite Option.
I also endorse that other fellows right to talk about boys in private and not in public channels.
Everyone needs an outlet, he's welcome to it I suppose.
Virus you remember the old Molten Core check. The trash at the very entrance was difficult enough that if you couldn't down them easily you had no hope for the rest of the raid. That isn't a bad strategy for design. Although that level of DPS isn't needed for the entire raid, any raid that couldn't do that level on demand would have no hope of mastering the mechanic fights.
Anyways cheers and yes you are awful. Pug away my friend!
Heh, MC...I think I ran it three times prior to BC. Even with BC, I think I only did a single Kara. All of that because of friends I'd know for almost a decade needed a Lock and I was the last choice kind of thing. Moving on to RIFT, I tagged along on a single world raid with my old PvP guild that converted to a Raid guild because they needed a Chloromancer. PvE Raiding's just never been my thing - but I did enough 5-mans and more than enough PvP...and well, been playing MMOs since '97 to accept that to do certain things one should be capable of doing certain things...or just sit back to hear the tales instead.
I should be awful...lol, I've been practicing for almost 17 years.
You know that there are a couple of easier fixes to that than demanding Cryptic to program the content to not allow PUGs, right? Like you not logging into the forum or ignoring such threads for ex.
With the information given...what reasonable hope would a pug have of completing a L60 Elite?
Nope, that's not how a PUG queue goes. That's how a DPS parser goes. A PUG queue goes with me entering a STF with some random people, flying my favourite ship and having fun. If it happens to fail, so be it - I'll get it next time. It's a game, it's not my real life. If I fail a STF I won't get sacked or lose my job. I'm playing a game to waste some free time and have fun while I do it, not to be pressured wheather my PUG team will fail sth. or not.
That's very selfish. There are four other people on the team. You may be fine wasting your time - but - what gives you the right to waste their time?
That's true. And that's a chance you consciously take before queuing a PUG. If you don't want to deal with such risk, you do privates with people you know and trust.
And again, given the information they've provided about what the L60 Elites will be like...what will it lead to other than massive risk and frustration?
Ah yes, just because I don't think the same way you do it means that I want to be carried through elites! :rolleyes:
Once again, if the L60 Elites are going to require certain gearing - certain abilities - and certain strategies/tactics that require practiced team play...how is that going to work with a pug?
This isn't some MMO Trinity game - where if the content requires ABC, you'll at least get ABC - this is completely open. One might say that pugs offer the greater challenge (Hell, I've said that in the past for both PvE and PVP)...but at what point does it just become silly? Reading that blog...Advanced looks like it will be a blast to try to pug with some of the changes they're making there. Elite? Er...
Assuming much are we now? I'm not defending my position because of entitlement, in fact I'll probably mostly be in the 'advanced' queues when DR comes. I may do elites for fun with freinds and fleetmates. I'm not a power gamer or obsessed with DPS, so it'll probably be a long time before I feel I have a capable build to cruise trough an elite. I'd still like to have the option though, just in case I log-in during odd hours once in a while and I feel like doing an elite STF. Is this really that hard to understand?
To what end? The challenge of it? Everybody dies in the first few minutes...it's over...you can try again in 30 minutes to an hour?
The situation here is that if someone doesn't want to PUG, they can do private just as if the PUG option never existed. They can just ignore their existence completely.
What your position boils down to is - I think Cryptic should completely remove elite PUGs because I don't want to read forum threads of people whining about failed STFs. I don't feel I need to explain how selfish that sounds.
Not wanting to read countless threads from folks complaining that somebody showed up to their STF and ruined it for everybody...is selfish? Cause I'd prefer that the folks running the Elite STFs are having a blast with the challenge and dropping out threads thanking Cryptic for finally giving them that challenge?
Yeah...definitely sounds selfish on my part to think about the players that are showing up to try to get the job done instead of the players that just want the better reward offered and hope they get carried through it...
Comments
Yeah then that doesn't work...in case you haven't noticed MMO mentality is *That's Mine!* so what you have is five people in a rush to do this console or that console and you don't get the accolade(s) you need because everyone has to use it.
Recommending people to avoid PUGs is one thing and your choice. Asking the developer to completely remove the PUG option from elite queues just because you or a number of other people don't like them is an entirely different thing.
Well, the gear score idea is not better and I think worse.
Maybe they should just leave it all alone.
All I freaking do is pug. I'm not a member of any fleet. I don't run with any friends. I don't hit up any pugmade channels. All I freaking do is pug. For almost a thousand days...all I've done is pug. I couldn't even guess how many toons I've geared up - since even now I still delete and reroll toons. I just deleted 7 guys that were T5 in each rep. I deleted 9 guys at the end of 2013. All I do is pug...
...and based on that experience...
...and based on what the blog said...
...I can't see why Cryptic would offer a pug option for the new Elites outside of them wanting to troll the playerbase - get a little passive-aggressive action going on their part.
You can't see why and that's your issue. I can see why they left the option and so can Cryptic aparently. And it is a good thing.
If people don't want to PUG elites they can make privates just as if the PUG option never existed. I couldn't fathom why people would want to rob other people of an option they have no intention of using themselves.
Here here!
Cryptic knows who butters their bread: the pugs. So we will not be going anywhere.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I used to play estfs in channels but I find pugs more fun as theres an element of randomness - its the horror of the almost failed optional and the fight back, be it solo or with all hands on deck, launching everything in a do or die manuever - perfection is overated if its for fun in my opinion. Of course if one is grinding like its a job, then pugging is athema to that method of 'play'
What most of you, I respectfully feel, is that you forget pugging is how most estf players start - poor gear, not repped out yet, not knowing the ins and outs of the game - these players have to pug as elitists are playing elsewhere and unless they are lucky, they have no strong fleet to back them up (lets face it, most strong fleets are full to the brim) and help them learn. Now naturally they should do normal but with human nature, one follows the largest rewards - and this is where 'elder puggers' come in, by our actions and occasional rapidly typed 'attack only one side!", teaching them by absorption to play
In turn they will learn the game for themselves and become the estfers that either pug or see themselves now above that
As to the New elite, I expect the majority of puggers will dabble with Elite then gravitate to advanced if the reward is not worth the effort (aka blowing up the second a borg sphere looks at them due to not having 2million dils worth of mk14 shield). I could likely see a puggable ISE but beyond that, the other missions will be elitestfists (?) only
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Yup, I've seen plenty of people in the CE event go in there with awesome gear, but crappy use/slotting of boff abilities. Seeing the CE buff up that damage 100+ time sucked.
Because I don't want to see all the crying and asking for nerfs that will come from it. I don't want to log on to the forum and see countless threads from people with the same complaints over and over and over again...
Because this is how a pug queue goes:
Infected Space Elite - 7:18
Somebody; 4,671,992 Damage; 10,666.5 DPS; 452,257 Healing; 427,700 Damage Taken
Somebody; 3,710,070 Damage; 8,489.9 DPS; 84,769 Healing; 85,911 Damage Taken
Geist; 2,571,610 Damage; 5,884.7 DPS; 167,164 Healing; 190,039 Damage Taken
Somebody; 877,314 Damage; 2,045.0 DPS; 255 Healing; 13,274 Damage Taken
Somebody; 757,731 Damage; 1,754.0 DPS; 23,415 Healing; 245,401 Damage Taken; 1 Death
This is Geist's build: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=geist_5343
I even forgot to reslot the T2 Rep Traits after switching out a BOFF. He's only T2. He's only looking at...
[System] Geist has been on active duty for 3 days, 7 hours, 16 minutes, 29 seconds.
...where most of that has been AFK sitting in Sector Space somewhere while on the forums or watching TV.
With just 4 Rare Mk XI [Acc]x2 Disruptor Arrays, with a Rare Mk XI Induction Coil, the Multi-Relay, and 2pc bonus...just those four weapons, that was 2,502.2 DPS. More than the last two guys...
I should have been the one that at the end of that said, "Sorry, guys. Thanks!" My performance was embarrassing. It usually is...but unfortunately, there are usually folks chasing butterflies that can result in one of my TRIBBLE 5-8k DPS boats being at the top instead of the bottom.
The only reason that I can see somebody asking that Elite pug queues exist is in the hopes of being carried...hoping that somebody else will earn them their reward as they coast through.
Cause when those 1-2k DPS folks show up for the new Elite...they're spot would have been better used by giving somebody else another hangar of pets.
Why can't folks accept their level of play? Why are they such special snowflakes they have to think they're elite when they're not? I know I'm not...it's not hard...just drop the entitlement garbage and its easy.
If you want to do private do it and leave us alone.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yes, here here...here is the person that said the following in the other thread...
...and that's somebody folks want hitting up Elite pugs with them?
Reading isn't your forte is it?
actually, clown, it is. i'll take you on in any reading comprehension test. or any liberal artsy test you like.
i also have no problems whatsoever in our current elite pugs. people will figure out what to do in the new ones soon enough. i have no worries.
if you are so concerned by all means make a private team. why push so hard on this subject eh? what's you're real goal?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
"This is not a mode we expect all players to be able to eventually complete. This is a mode that will result in many failed attempts before a successful strategy is struck upon, and even then, that strategy should take practice and precision to pull off on a continual basis."
What part of that suggests it being something open to pugs?
What part of that suggests that it will lead to anything but frustration for pugs?
And don't forget what Positron said, eh?
I didn't say reading comprehension...I said reading. You've read multiple replies from me stating the opposite of what you've said in reply to them multiple times. You're not bothering to read...you're just blathering on.
I agree that there should be a gear score gate, or a strong DPS check gate, or simply no public que for the Elite Option.
I also endorse that other fellows right to talk about boys in private and not in public channels.
Everyone needs an outlet, he's welcome to it I suppose.
Virus you remember the old Molten Core check. The trash at the very entrance was difficult enough that if you couldn't down them easily you had no hope for the rest of the raid. That isn't a bad strategy for design. Although that level of DPS isn't needed for the entire raid, any raid that couldn't do that level on demand would have no hope of mastering the mechanic fights.
Anyways cheers and yes you are awful. Pug away my friend!
eh boy you're a real piece of work aren't you. i read and comprehend all you've said here and i guarantee you this is just the same old leet raider garbage argument hidden in sweet kitten form.
for about the 10th time - if you don't want to pug elite don't. let those of us who want to do. why will it hurt you so for people to be able to pug?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Just because it's the only reason you can see doesn't mean it's the only reason.
While you've cleverly attempted to camouflage it with some "humble bragging", your disdain of the 'unwashed masses' is exhibit A of the very behavior many people are worried about.
You know that there are a couple of easier fixes to that than demanding Cryptic to program the content to not allow PUGs, right? Like you not logging into the forum or ignoring such threads for ex.
Nope, that's not how a PUG queue goes. That's how a DPS parser goes. A PUG queue goes with me entering a STF with some random people, flying my favourite ship and having fun. If it happens to fail, so be it - I'll get it next time. It's a game, it's not my real life. If I fail a STF I won't get sacked or lose my job. I'm playing a game to waste some free time and have fun while I do it, not to be pressured wheather my PUG team will fail sth. or not.
That's true. And that's a chance you consciously take before queuing a PUG. If you don't want to deal with such risk, you do privates with people you know and trust.
Ah yes, just because I don't think the same way you do it means that I want to be carried through elites! :rolleyes:
Yes. And that's a decision you consciously make before entering a PUG. I still fail to see the problem here.
Assuming much are we now? I'm not defending my position because of entitlement, in fact I'll probably mostly be in the 'advanced' queues when DR comes. I may do elites for fun with freinds and fleetmates. I'm not a power gamer or obsessed with DPS, so it'll probably be a long time before I feel I have a capable build to cruise trough an elite. I'd still like to have the option though, just in case I log-in during odd hours once in a while and I feel like doing an elite STF. Is this really that hard to understand?
The situation here is that if someone doesn't want to PUG, they can do private just as if the PUG option never existed. They can just ignore their existence completely.
What your position boils down to is - I think Cryptic should completely remove elite PUGs because I don't want to read forum threads of people whining about failed STFs. I don't feel I need to explain how selfish that sounds.
Your gear isn't the only factor, as current Elite level content can be done with mk X white gear and maybe even T3 ships. Heck... some fleets actually do low tier STF runs for fun!
Gear Score means squat in STO, and just gives the elitest people a reason to discriminate against everyone else even more than they do now.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Yes! But in no universe am I dancing.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
system Lord Baal is dead
As long as other people can't actually see the score, yes. If other people can see the score, no.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
That would be easy..... 1 useless person like me being carried by a group would soon get them done.
IF there would be a block on T4 ships going into this new "elite" system, Ok, I would also propose someone not be allowed to queue up for Anything with existing injuries either ground or space. Temporary blocks due to trolling, things of that nature. There is no reason to further foster a WoW community here.
There are better options than taking this game and pouring the blue goo TRIBBLE collector from a full portapotty all over it. Leave WoW IN WoW
Heh, MC...I think I ran it three times prior to BC. Even with BC, I think I only did a single Kara. All of that because of friends I'd know for almost a decade needed a Lock and I was the last choice kind of thing. Moving on to RIFT, I tagged along on a single world raid with my old PvP guild that converted to a Raid guild because they needed a Chloromancer. PvE Raiding's just never been my thing - but I did enough 5-mans and more than enough PvP...and well, been playing MMOs since '97 to accept that to do certain things one should be capable of doing certain things...or just sit back to hear the tales instead.
I should be awful...lol, I've been practicing for almost 17 years.
With the information given...what reasonable hope would a pug have of completing a L60 Elite?
That's very selfish. There are four other people on the team. You may be fine wasting your time - but - what gives you the right to waste their time?
And again, given the information they've provided about what the L60 Elites will be like...what will it lead to other than massive risk and frustration?
Once again, if the L60 Elites are going to require certain gearing - certain abilities - and certain strategies/tactics that require practiced team play...how is that going to work with a pug?
This isn't some MMO Trinity game - where if the content requires ABC, you'll at least get ABC - this is completely open. One might say that pugs offer the greater challenge (Hell, I've said that in the past for both PvE and PVP)...but at what point does it just become silly? Reading that blog...Advanced looks like it will be a blast to try to pug with some of the changes they're making there. Elite? Er...
The problem is not you accepting that those folks will be there - the problem is those folks accepting that they should be there.
To what end? The challenge of it? Everybody dies in the first few minutes...it's over...you can try again in 30 minutes to an hour?
Not wanting to read countless threads from folks complaining that somebody showed up to their STF and ruined it for everybody...is selfish? Cause I'd prefer that the folks running the Elite STFs are having a blast with the challenge and dropping out threads thanking Cryptic for finally giving them that challenge?
Yeah...definitely sounds selfish on my part to think about the players that are showing up to try to get the job done instead of the players that just want the better reward offered and hope they get carried through it...
Yeah, definitely selfish on my part. :rolleyes: