I'll be honest, I think a lot of the reason a large number of people either ignore or outright close chat is because of the people who get incredibly nasty with them just because they have no way of knowing what to do.
How can somebody say they have no way of knowing what to do...when there are so many resources available offering all sorts of information on what to do?
It's not a case of condoning some of the garbage folks say to one another in the least - not a case of trying to justify it in the least...
...just it's not an excuse in the least - not knowing what to do - showing up for an Elite in a build that shouldn't be there...etc, etc, etc.
Again, going off on folks either in zone - team - or PMs isn't going to be helpful...it's just bad mojo, regardless of the frustration one might feel. Maybe take a break - get some fresh air - something, eh?
...but honestly, there are all sorts of resources available to folks on how to do the content and help with mechanics/builds out there.
How can somebody say they have no way of knowing what to do...when there are so many resources available offering all sorts of information on what to do?
It's not a case of condoning some of the garbage folks say to one another in the least - not a case of trying to justify it in the least...
...just it's not an excuse in the least - not knowing what to do - showing up for an Elite in a build that shouldn't be there...etc, etc, etc.
Again, going off on folks either in zone - team - or PMs isn't going to be helpful...it's just bad mojo, regardless of the frustration one might feel. Maybe take a break - get some fresh air - something, eh?
...but honestly, there are all sorts of resources available to folks on how to do the content and help with mechanics/builds out there.
I know what you're saying, but I also have to point out the sheer number of resources that are actually damaging the quality of the player because they don't know any better, though I don't think I can name them here.
But on the flip side we also have new players who simply don't know where to go, in which I'd say the problem lies.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
No Gear Score => Failed optionals, Failed Elites where everyone warps, good players have to carry those that are clueless => In-community fighting => Hostile player experience.
I agree with the OP. My vote is to give us the same gear score mechanic that NW has. Also, put it in PvP for the love of Jeebus. The chance that a high geared player will know what he's doing and is competent is high enough that the pros out weigh the cons. There should be barriers in place that prevent the 2-3k DPS crown from entering an elite public queue.
I have to disagree with adding a Gear Score into this game. Not because I am opposed to gear score but because I do not trust Cryptic with PWE overlords with such a system. The temptation to entice players to buy the new hotness because it has 10 more gear score than the old hotness, but ironically has a less effective design would be to great.
What would stop the requirements from being a T6, T6F, T5UF, all mk 14 Gold requirement because that is what the devs deemed the gear needed to run Elites. The outcry and empty ques would cause the dev team to be forced to go back and correct there mistake kind of like when they thought it was a good idea to remove the dilithium reward for the STF's for those two days.
The project would be a massive undertaking possibly on the order of an expansion level of time investment to go threw all ships and equipment in an attempt to apply an appropriate score. These scores would then just become a shopping list for players to grab and run there first Elite Que.
Personally I would prefer them to take the time to improve some of there systems that are currently in game but not operating very well or systems that should be in game.
Firstly a damage parser that breaks up actual damage done, negated damage, healing and over healing. Reasoning for the distinctions so that session scoring can be more accurate.
Score board that shows appropriate information and is a little less glitchy. Had a fleetmate who went into a CCE sat in a corner did not fire a shot, no damage taken just kept healing himself just to see if he could take first. He did.
In game resources for the Que. I know there is the little vid for the newer ques but few seem to come away with an understanding of the mission from them. Let alone those with hearing impairments. It would be nice if in the que window there was a link to a resource source detailing the mission objectives, bonuses, and failure state. It could be a link to the appropriate moderated forum, or some sort of write up detailing the mission either written by the dev (possibly at launch) and/or player submitted from the forums where the moderators, CM's could at least apply some quality control before it gets submitted as an alternate guide to the dev written one. Also on a fail a pop-up saying what caused the failure with an optional link to the write up zoomed to the correct section for the failure.
Unfortunately players will find the path of least resistance to get to there goal, so attempting to use accolade system will be pointless. You could put need to get X completions with bonuses for advanced but that just means playing Russian roulette in the advanced ques until the players with equipment and skill for only running normals get access to elite.
So sadly this thread has several ok ideas but each has it's own problem.
Gear Score - gives players a shopping list, and could be exploited by the devs to promote selling the new hotness. ultimately forcing KDF/Rom players out or forcing a slow down on Fed ship development to keep KDF/Rom competitive.
Accolades - slows down the getting there for some but they will still get there. Also is an inconvenience for those that the difficulty targeted at.
Scoring - system currently dose not work very well and is exploitable.
I don't think scoring is necessary but just require it be a level 50 or a T5-U ship and above to enter. I think the public queues should require your ship to match the minimum rank to play anyways regardless of queue difficulty.
If you want to toy around with low level ship/gear do it in a private queue. Saying people shouldn't PuG isn't a response as the public queues are there for random teaming. Someone having to go hunt and peck out a private team just to avoid people trying to throw a mission is BS. Just eliminate the option for those circumstances to occur in the first place.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I'll be honest, I think a lot of the reason a large number of people either ignore or outright close chat is because of the people who get incredibly nasty with them just because they have no way of knowing what to do.
that's the definition of what most in this thread have termed "elitists". Snobs are another word, but not entirely accurate either, arrogant is the most accurate description of the behavior, so I guess arrogant snobs should be the most correct name. the funny/sad thing is about 2/3 of the posters in this thread fit the description precisely, and they are completely unaware of it.
not that it matters much to me. I don't play STFS, I don't think my DPS is where is should be, and frankly, I just as soon not be forced into a pug where one of the arrogant snobs will cry like a 3 year old because "no one is pulling their weight" and are "geared wrong" because the person LIKES having a torpedo loaded on their beamboat, or are not running A2B on their Excelsior
Scoreboards mainly show how functional you are in placing on the scoreboard.
yup. I was in starbase 24 and I know i was killing a LOT of stuff.. but i was killing the WRONG stuff at the WRONG time. the once i figured out there was an order i had to figure out how to place myself to be able to shoot before the high DPS types killed everything. scoreboards may help, and the philosophy might work if you have an additive threshold, say, 10K DPS/heals averaged over 5 normal STFs, and completion with all optionals to unlock advanced. Ditto on advanced to Elite. that eliminates being carried or AFKers bypassing the gates
I know what you're saying, but I also have to point out the sheer number of resources that are actually damaging the quality of the player because they don't know any better, though I don't think I can name them here.
But on the flip side we also have new players who simply don't know where to go, in which I'd say the problem lies.
this.
who is more correct, the person who says a Defiant MUST be equipped with 4 DHCs forward and 3 turrets aft? or one who says run it THIS way, as long as you can get THIS DPS level?
I don't like the idea of a GS system for elite events, having the level 60 requirement should be fine enough.
Sure there will be people with slightly sub-par gear giving it a shot, but by level 60 most should have the bare essentials needed to get by and may be lacking in the strategy or skills.
Sure this is annoying from time to time but everybody has to learn somewhere, and Im happy to help teach what I know and learn what I don't if people are willing to listen and tell.
Plus sometimes having to work a little harder and give someone a leg up makes for a better gaming experience than just blasting everything in sight in seconds. Even in my highest performing vessels I always send a "ty" in pm or team chat when some total random has saved my TRIBBLE or even thrown me a courtesy heal.
Generous nebula captains: Love you guys
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
No Gear Score => Failed optionals, Failed Elites where everyone warps, good players have to carry those that are clueless => In-community fighting => Hostile player experience.
I agree with the OP. My vote is to give us the same gear score mechanic that NW has. Also, put it in PvP for the love of Jeebus. The chance that a high geared player will know what he's doing and is competent is high enough that the pros out weigh the cons. There should be barriers in place that prevent the 2-3k DPS crown from entering an elite public queue.
Ok, here is a big problem. My very overpowered drain build for PvP does very low DPS, but can stop spheres dead with Tykens and considerably lower or completely remove the damage or shields of the TAC cube and gate. Sure, it might not help complete ISE in record time, but it won't cause the optionals to fail either. I can make a DPS heavy Vesta and run it for farming purposes, but smashing the space bar for two minutes gets boring as all hell.
Hell, I don't think a gear score would ever fix the problems with Elite queues. I'm proof you can make a Geko type 14 year old minimaxing build with top of the line gear and have dismal DPS. It's not the gear, its how you use it. I bet I could take a Connie into an elite STF and do just fine.
Ok, here is a big problem. My very overpowered drain build for PvP does very low DPS, but can stop spheres dead with Tykens and considerably lower or completely remove the damage or shields of the TAC cube and gate. Sure, it might not help complete ISE in record time, but it won't cause the optionals to fail either. I can make a DPS heavy Vesta and run it for farming purposes, but smashing the space bar for two minutes gets boring as all hell.
Hell, I don't think a gear score would ever fix the problems with Elite queues. I'm proof you can make a Geko type 14 year old minimaxing build with top of the line gear and have dismal DPS. It's not the gear, its how you use it. I bet I could take a Connie into an elite STF and do just fine.
I'm sure you could.
Pve is not particularly reliant on gear, as much as knowledge of what's required and keeping your eyes open.
However, I can see how gear may correlate somewhat to success in Pvp.
Given that any putative match making or scoreboard for pvp is not on the horizon, and further given that cryptic already know how to make a GS system in NWO, it could be used as a near term bandaid to balance PvP a little more.
Comments
How can somebody say they have no way of knowing what to do...when there are so many resources available offering all sorts of information on what to do?
It's not a case of condoning some of the garbage folks say to one another in the least - not a case of trying to justify it in the least...
...just it's not an excuse in the least - not knowing what to do - showing up for an Elite in a build that shouldn't be there...etc, etc, etc.
Again, going off on folks either in zone - team - or PMs isn't going to be helpful...it's just bad mojo, regardless of the frustration one might feel. Maybe take a break - get some fresh air - something, eh?
...but honestly, there are all sorts of resources available to folks on how to do the content and help with mechanics/builds out there.
I know what you're saying, but I also have to point out the sheer number of resources that are actually damaging the quality of the player because they don't know any better, though I don't think I can name them here.
But on the flip side we also have new players who simply don't know where to go, in which I'd say the problem lies.
No Gear Score => Failed optionals, Failed Elites where everyone warps, good players have to carry those that are clueless => In-community fighting => Hostile player experience.
I agree with the OP. My vote is to give us the same gear score mechanic that NW has. Also, put it in PvP for the love of Jeebus. The chance that a high geared player will know what he's doing and is competent is high enough that the pros out weigh the cons. There should be barriers in place that prevent the 2-3k DPS crown from entering an elite public queue.
Keep Pandora's Box firmly shut.
What would stop the requirements from being a T6, T6F, T5UF, all mk 14 Gold requirement because that is what the devs deemed the gear needed to run Elites. The outcry and empty ques would cause the dev team to be forced to go back and correct there mistake kind of like when they thought it was a good idea to remove the dilithium reward for the STF's for those two days.
The project would be a massive undertaking possibly on the order of an expansion level of time investment to go threw all ships and equipment in an attempt to apply an appropriate score. These scores would then just become a shopping list for players to grab and run there first Elite Que.
Personally I would prefer them to take the time to improve some of there systems that are currently in game but not operating very well or systems that should be in game.
Firstly a damage parser that breaks up actual damage done, negated damage, healing and over healing. Reasoning for the distinctions so that session scoring can be more accurate.
Score board that shows appropriate information and is a little less glitchy. Had a fleetmate who went into a CCE sat in a corner did not fire a shot, no damage taken just kept healing himself just to see if he could take first. He did.
In game resources for the Que. I know there is the little vid for the newer ques but few seem to come away with an understanding of the mission from them. Let alone those with hearing impairments. It would be nice if in the que window there was a link to a resource source detailing the mission objectives, bonuses, and failure state. It could be a link to the appropriate moderated forum, or some sort of write up detailing the mission either written by the dev (possibly at launch) and/or player submitted from the forums where the moderators, CM's could at least apply some quality control before it gets submitted as an alternate guide to the dev written one. Also on a fail a pop-up saying what caused the failure with an optional link to the write up zoomed to the correct section for the failure.
Unfortunately players will find the path of least resistance to get to there goal, so attempting to use accolade system will be pointless. You could put need to get X completions with bonuses for advanced but that just means playing Russian roulette in the advanced ques until the players with equipment and skill for only running normals get access to elite.
So sadly this thread has several ok ideas but each has it's own problem.
Gear Score - gives players a shopping list, and could be exploited by the devs to promote selling the new hotness. ultimately forcing KDF/Rom players out or forcing a slow down on Fed ship development to keep KDF/Rom competitive.
Accolades - slows down the getting there for some but they will still get there. Also is an inconvenience for those that the difficulty targeted at.
Scoring - system currently dose not work very well and is exploitable.
If you want to toy around with low level ship/gear do it in a private queue. Saying people shouldn't PuG isn't a response as the public queues are there for random teaming. Someone having to go hunt and peck out a private team just to avoid people trying to throw a mission is BS. Just eliminate the option for those circumstances to occur in the first place.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
However, an invisible GS might work as a way to balance PvP.
that's the definition of what most in this thread have termed "elitists". Snobs are another word, but not entirely accurate either, arrogant is the most accurate description of the behavior, so I guess arrogant snobs should be the most correct name. the funny/sad thing is about 2/3 of the posters in this thread fit the description precisely, and they are completely unaware of it.
not that it matters much to me. I don't play STFS, I don't think my DPS is where is should be, and frankly, I just as soon not be forced into a pug where one of the arrogant snobs will cry like a 3 year old because "no one is pulling their weight" and are "geared wrong" because the person LIKES having a torpedo loaded on their beamboat, or are not running A2B on their Excelsior
yup. I was in starbase 24 and I know i was killing a LOT of stuff.. but i was killing the WRONG stuff at the WRONG time. the once i figured out there was an order i had to figure out how to place myself to be able to shoot before the high DPS types killed everything. scoreboards may help, and the philosophy might work if you have an additive threshold, say, 10K DPS/heals averaged over 5 normal STFs, and completion with all optionals to unlock advanced. Ditto on advanced to Elite. that eliminates being carried or AFKers bypassing the gates
this.
who is more correct, the person who says a Defiant MUST be equipped with 4 DHCs forward and 3 turrets aft? or one who says run it THIS way, as long as you can get THIS DPS level?
Sure there will be people with slightly sub-par gear giving it a shot, but by level 60 most should have the bare essentials needed to get by and may be lacking in the strategy or skills.
Sure this is annoying from time to time but everybody has to learn somewhere, and Im happy to help teach what I know and learn what I don't if people are willing to listen and tell.
Plus sometimes having to work a little harder and give someone a leg up makes for a better gaming experience than just blasting everything in sight in seconds. Even in my highest performing vessels I always send a "ty" in pm or team chat when some total random has saved my TRIBBLE or even thrown me a courtesy heal.
Generous nebula captains: Love you guys
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
Ok, here is a big problem. My very overpowered drain build for PvP does very low DPS, but can stop spheres dead with Tykens and considerably lower or completely remove the damage or shields of the TAC cube and gate. Sure, it might not help complete ISE in record time, but it won't cause the optionals to fail either. I can make a DPS heavy Vesta and run it for farming purposes, but smashing the space bar for two minutes gets boring as all hell.
Hell, I don't think a gear score would ever fix the problems with Elite queues. I'm proof you can make a Geko type 14 year old minimaxing build with top of the line gear and have dismal DPS. It's not the gear, its how you use it. I bet I could take a Connie into an elite STF and do just fine.
I'm sure you could.
Pve is not particularly reliant on gear, as much as knowledge of what's required and keeping your eyes open.
However, I can see how gear may correlate somewhat to success in Pvp.
Given that any putative match making or scoreboard for pvp is not on the horizon, and further given that cryptic already know how to make a GS system in NWO, it could be used as a near term bandaid to balance PvP a little more.