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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Those are specifically excluded at this time. In a way this makes sense; looking at the difference between a Danube Runabouts hangar pet and a Yellowstone Runabouts, a simple Quality upgrade adds much more than a [Mod] when it comes to Hangar Pets, it's a full order of magnitude above its predecessors.

    Thats not an excuse to not have it. Unless hangar pets do not qualify as gear which would be a load of TRIBBLE considering they cost more than any other item in the game.
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    3 days of grinding for less than an hour doing the KASE+ISE+CSE+CEE is not that expensive.

    Dude! you are talking days here and saying that spending days doing the same stuff isnt a big deal. We've been doing that for the past 4+ years. We're done with that and its not awfully attractive to new/newer players either.
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  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Thats not an excuse to not have it. Unless hangar pets do not qualify as gear which would be a load of TRIBBLE considering they cost more than any other item in the game.

    Each tier of Quality for a Hangar Pet grants additional abilities, upgrades the rank of existing abilities, and adds weapons... there is next to no equivalence between a Hangar Pet's Quality ranking and a Beam Array's Quality ranking. In this case, I can fully understand their not wanting to touch that with a hyperspanner... not even a 10 ft. hyperspanner ;)
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Each tier of Quality for a Hangar Pet grants additional abilities, upgrades the rank of existing abilities, and adds weapons... there is next to no equivalence between a Hangar Pet's Quality ranking and a Beam Array's Quality ranking. In this case, I can fully understand their not wanting to touch that with a hyperspanner... not even a 10 ft. hyperspanner ;)

    Well for any carrier captains out there it sort of would be crucial since the most of their DPS comes from their pets. Sure their potential mk XIV gold equipment would make the gap smaller but it would still be a loss compared to a hypothetical/potential gold hangar pet.
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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yes, Gold-quality hangar pets with suitable abilities. What could go wrong?

    Runabouts gain TBR with the pull doff.
    Orion Interceptors switched to polarized disruptors and add plasmonic leech.
    Romulan Drone Ships gain Photonic Fleet.
    BoPs add a DBB with BO3.
    Fer'Jai drop aceton assimilators.
    JHAS pets spam all chat channels with complaints that given their cost they need further buffing.
    Etc etc.

    How about no?
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yes, Gold-quality hangar pets with suitable abilities. What could go wrong?

    Runabouts gain TBR with the pull doff.
    Orion Interceptors switched to polarized disruptors and add plasmonic leech.
    Romulan Drone Ships gain Photonic Fleet.
    BoPs add a DBB with BO3.
    Fer'Jai drop aceton assimilators.
    JHAS pets spam all chat channels with complaints that given their cost they need further buffing.
    Etc etc.

    How about no?

    Your satire proves no point since nobody in their right mind would make gold hangar pets that pimpin. Im not saying we need gold hangar pets for X2, but it would be nice to have them some time in the future.
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  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,719 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I knew it would be a bit pricey, whether or not Cryptic adjusts the dilithium costs... (lol)

    But you know, I feel absolutely no need to rush anything. There's no worthwhile reason to. I'll get there eventually, but for now, all of the current equipment that I have will more than suffice for the time being.

    Also, not particularly happy that it takes 20-24 hours to upgrade MkXII+ stuff. It's also removed from your inventory while this upgrade is happening. So plan accordingly.
  • varthelmvarthelm Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I've seen several posts here complaining about grinds, complaining about people complaining about grinds, etc. Here's where all are coming from I would assume.

    No one is saying one shouldn't have to work for stuff in a game, regardless of what kind it is. Going to the "all MMO's grind" is a silly excuse. A game is either fun or it is not fun and when it is not, it is time to find one that is. All we ask for as players of any game is this...

    The busy work we put into improving our in game avatar/toon/character has a payoff that is worth the effort.

    I think people who complain about grinds are people feeling like the grinds never get to a payoff point. Grinds are not fun..grinds are what we endure so we can get to the fun.

    If there are those that feel like running 8 toons to their max dil every day and find that a reasonable use of their time, more power to em. If there are those that find that repetative and boring...that's their right as well. There has to be a balance of grind and payoff and any game should strive to achieve that balance.

    Semi middle of the road rant done :)
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well for any carrier captains out there it sort of would be crucial since the most of their DPS comes from their pets. Sure their potential mk XIV gold equipment would make the gap smaller but it would still be a loss compared to a hypothetical/potential gold hangar pet.

    It would bypass the fleet holdings that grant UR pets at the moment.

    And I say this as a carrier captain, in a fleet that doesnt have access.

    However, I'd like to see any pets added in the future plugged into the upgrade system.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    Dude! you are talking days here and saying that spending days doing the same stuff isnt a big deal. We've been doing that for the past 4+ years. We're done with that and its not awfully attractive to new/newer players either.

    Well, you could farm contraband, do the daily officer reports, play some PvP, do other STFs. yes, they take more time, but provides fun.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    varthelm wrote: »
    I've seen several posts here complaining about grinds, complaining about people complaining about grinds, etc. Here's where all are coming from I would assume.

    No one is saying one shouldn't have to work for stuff in a game, regardless of what kind it is. Going to the "all MMO's grind" is a silly excuse. A game is either fun or it is not fun and when it is not, it is time to find one that is. All we ask for as players of any game is this...

    The busy work we put into improving our in game avatar/toon/character has a payoff that is worth the effort.

    I think people who complain about grinds are people feeling like the grinds never get to a payoff point. Grinds are not fun..grinds are what we endure so we can get to the fun.

    If there are those that feel like running 8 toons to their max dil every day and find that a reasonable use of their time, more power to em. If there are those that find that repetative and boring...that's their right as well. There has to be a balance of grind and payoff and any game should strive to achieve that balance.

    Semi middle of the road rant done :)

    You are right, however, the reality is, almost anything thats being produced for this game is just grinding in some fashion or another. This upgrade system being one of those things. YES! there needs to be balance which there is none of.
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Well, you could farm contraband, do the daily officer reports, play some PvP, do other STFs. yes, they take more time, but provides fun.

    If you have to do it 3 times or more, its a grind and is no longer fun. Doesn't matter what it is. (this,of course, applys to just games)
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    This looks good. And I can see this becoming useful. As I can level some of the weapon I love the look at lower levels. And get them up to par.

    I wonder what tier of crafting you have to access this?
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  • varthelmvarthelm Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hypl wrote: »
    I knew it would be a bit pricey, whether or not Cryptic adjusts the dilithium costs... (lol)

    But you know, I feel absolutely no need to rush anything. There's no worthwhile reason to. I'll get there eventually, but for now, all of the current equipment that I have will more than suffice for the time being.

    Also, not particularly happy that it takes 20-24 hours to upgrade MkXII+ stuff. It's also removed from your inventory while this upgrade is happening. So plan accordingly.

    Hear ya,

    My biggest issue is the time sink. There is no way I'm paying so it will finish faster and if it's a piece of equipment necessary for my ship's build, it just means I cant fly it for a day. At least, that's how I feel about it. I don't mind spending money to buy time, but it has to buy me much more than 20 hrs and give me a much better payoff....ie a ship :)
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    It would bypass the fleet holdings that grant UR pets at the moment.

    And I say this as a carrier captain, in a fleet that doesnt have access.

    However, I'd like to see any pets added in the future plugged into the upgrade system.

    So, in other words, you want to be able to plug in your VR pets and at least make them UR at some point? That makes sense.
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  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    So, from what I can see, all legacy (preorder items) can't be upgradeable. I must ask: why? the Tr-116a, I understand, but the other items are pretty harmless. It would be a great reward for the people that have been here since beta to be able to do so.
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  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Overall I really like this system. It will help create many more options for endgame gear and allow players to choose just how many +1s they want to push for. I do have some criticism though.

    *Time Gate
    I'm already spending purple rock to use this system. The method of time gating this will really hurt those who do not log on five times a day and seems both redundant and unnecessary. I understand the psychological play going on here by giving us something to look forward to when we log in but you shouldn't need to resort to such tactics if your game play is good enough already. Also it does not give me a reason to actually play the game, just to log in to start the upgrade project or worse it gives me a reason to log off because I have to wait for my reward anyway.

    And from the whale perspective it seems to really be a double dip. You want people to buy purple rock with zen and then double charge them just because they don't want to log in every 3-6 hours for each piece of gear? You want them to pay double?

    Would you make a player wait 10 hours to receive the loot from the mission they just completed? Apply that logic to this.

    *Random Mods
    Random mods on alot of gear will result in alot of frustrated players. They just got done building their awsome set of [??] x2/x3 weapons and now half of them get an undesirable mod upon upgrading.

    Get rid of the unnecessary and frustrating parts and this system will be amazing.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    Overall I really like this system. It will help create many more options for endgame gear and allow players to choose just how many +1s they want to push for. I do have some criticism though.

    *Time Gate
    I'm already spending purple rock to use this system. The method of time gating this will really hurt those who do not log on five times a day and seems both redundant and unnecessary. I understand the psychological play going on here by giving us something to look forward to when we log in but you shouldn't need to resort to such tactics if your game play is good enough already. Also it does not give me a reason to actually play the game, just to log in to start the upgrade project or worse it gives me a reason to log off because I have to wait for my reward anyway.

    And from the whale perspective it seems to really be a double dip. You want people to buy purple rock with zen and then double charge them just because they don't want to log in every 3-6 hours for each piece of gear? You want them to pay double?

    Would you make a player wait 10 hours to receive the loot from the mission they just completed? Apply that logic to this.

    *Random Mods
    Random mods on alot of gear will result in alot of frustrated players. They just got done building their awsome set of [??] x2/x3 weapons and now half of them get an undesirable mod upon upgrading.

    Get rid of the unnecessary and frustrating parts and this system will be amazing.

    I can't agree with you more.
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  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    3 days of grinding for less than an hour doing the KASE+ISE+CSE+CEE is not that expensive.

    No that isn't. BUT duplicated across every item in a build, 10 consoles on a Tier 5-U or Tier 6; 11 consoles in a Fleet Tier 5-U or Tier 6, 8 weapons on a cruiser, the four primary system components Core, Impulse, Shields, and Deflector.

    Over the long haul I'm looking at 22 items to upgrade. That's 275,000 dilithium for my main ship assuming that the picture in the blog was correct. (And that's just to Mk XIII.)

    But like I said, I'm not planning on doing it all in one shot, so it's cool for me.

    There are also going to be MkXIII at least mission rewards in the Delta Quadrant so I may not have to upgrade everything.
    hypl wrote: »
    I knew it would be a bit pricey, whether or not Cryptic adjusts the dilithium costs... (lol)

    But you know, I feel absolutely no need to rush anything. There's no worthwhile reason to. I'll get there eventually, but for now, all of the current equipment that I have will more than suffice for the time being.

    Also, not particularly happy that it takes 20-24 hours to upgrade MkXII+ stuff. It's also removed from your inventory while this upgrade is happening. So plan accordingly.

    According to the blog it will only take a few hours.

    That makes sense it should be consistent with the times for crafting items. I don't know of any items that take a whole day to craft.

    I could be wrong, or I could be right and it gets changed.
    farmallm wrote: »
    This looks good. And I can see this becoming useful. As I can level some of the weapon I love the look at lower levels. And get them up to par.

    I wonder what tier of crafting you have to access this?

    NONE.

    This is not crafting dependent.

    The only caveat to that is that crafting is required to create upgrade kits. Common at level five, rare upgrade kit at level 10, and very rare at level 15, for the item classification (beam, cannon, engineering, etc.)

    But they can be freely bought and traded or gifted.

    Once you have them the upgrade system is independent of crafting complete with its own upgrade slots.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    captaind3 wrote: »
    Hmm I see. I think you might be right on the Spiral Wave that will be interesting to see.

    I actually took it that ALL the gold quality gear would those specific mods. They are pretty broken. In a good way.

    I ninja'd you. It was a mistake of wording that's all.
    In one of my posts earlier I brought up how the Lobi version of the JemHadar body armor effectively has 8 mods already. If it can be upgraded to have two more? that's a scary thought. :D But in an awesome way. :D
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  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    So, in other words, you want to be able to plug in your VR pets and at least make them UR at some point? That makes sense.

    I'd love to be able to, but the current pets already have upgrade paths, as it were.

    However, for future, new pets, I'd like to see them plugged into the system.
  • coraleccoralec Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    We MUST be able to choose the mods that are applied to the weapons. Otherwise we will be playing a game of chance (with horrendously bad odds) with weapons many people spent massive amounts of time and money on. If I lose my fleet weapons because I get bad mods on them I WILL quit this game forever.
  • edited September 2014
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  • jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    coralec wrote: »
    We MUST be able to choose the mods that are applied to the weapons. Otherwise we will be playing a game of chance (with horrendously bad odds) with weapons many people spent massive amounts of time and money on. If I lose my fleet weapons because I get bad mods on them I WILL quit this game forever.

    fleet guns are ultra rare, therefore any added mod would be with them becoming gold/epic which has only one possible mod acc/dm which increases both accuracy and damage
  • coraleccoralec Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    fleet guns are ultra rare, therefore any added mod would be with them becoming gold/epic which has only one possible mod acc/dm which increases both accuracy and damage

    Thank you for explaining...my rage is now very much quelled.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    captaind3 wrote: »
    No that isn't. BUT duplicated across every item in a build, 10 consoles on a Tier 5-U or Tier 6; 11 consoles in a Fleet Tier 5-U or Tier 6, 8 weapons on a cruiser, the four primary system components Core, Impulse, Shields, and Deflector.

    Over the long haul I'm looking at 22 items to upgrade. That's 275,000 dilithium for my main ship assuming that the picture in the blog was correct. (And that's just to Mk XIII.)

    But like I said, I'm not planning on doing it all in one shot, so it's cool for me.

    There are also going to be MkXIII at least mission rewards in the Delta Quadrant so I may not have to upgrade everything.



    According to the blog it will only take a few hours.

    That makes sense it should be consistent with the times for crafting items. I don't know of any items that take a whole day to craft.

    I could be wrong, or I could be right and it gets changed.



    NONE.

    This is not crafting dependent.

    The only caveat to that is that crafting is required to create upgrade kits. Common at level five, rare upgrade kit at level 10, and very rare at level 15, for the item classification (beam, cannon, engineering, etc.)

    But they can be freely bought and traded or gifted.

    Once you have them the upgrade system is independent of crafting complete with its own upgrade slots.

    That's ridiculous! It shouldn't require any crafting ranks at all. See!? Grinding.... More and more grinding! Is that all you know how to put out Cryptic/PWE? I'd say so.
    So here is an overview. We have to grind to top level on every R&D school to get the ability to craft superior tech kits. Then we have to use more than one of those per item to potentially get our desired outcome. Oh yeah, you have to fork our dilithium every time you run or "upgrade" an item. Multiply that times the number of times you need to run the item and then multiply that times the number of items. Then remove the R&D crafting aspect(you only need 1 master crafter. Yay! -_-) and multiply that times the number of characters we have. Oh yeah, doffs and mats are needed for crafting. So, in total, that alone, has too much grinding as it is and that's just to upgrade. And we are suppose to be happy about that? So the solution, pay or gtfo. Great business model. ��
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  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    ^ Then buy them off the exchange. I'm gonna do that for some of them because I'm not leveled in all schools.

    Beams, engineering, shields, ground weapons, I'll give you some blue ones once I have em made.
    In one of my posts earlier I brought up how the Lobi version of the JemHadar body armor effectively has 8 mods already. If it can be upgraded to have two more? that's a scary thought. :D But in an awesome way. :D
    Phaser as the primary, then the Disruptor proc, then Acc x 2 and dmg x2. So that's five, then you can add two more, Ultra Rare and Gold.

    Mother of God.

    According to the wik the Jem body armor is [Energy Dampening Armor Mk XI [RegHPx3] [RegSH]]. The stats on the Mk XII are flat out ridiculous from +54 Kinetic Damage resistance, +54 All Energy Damage resistance, +1.1 Health Regeneration, +7.6 Shield Regeneration every 4 sec to +72.7 Kinetic Damage resistance, +72.7 All Energy Damage resistance, +2.2 Health Regeneration, +15.2 Shield Regeneration every 4 sec. The shield regen is doubled, the health regen is doubled, the kinetic and energy resistance increased to about 150%.

    That sounds about right for everyone's favorite ankylosaurian super soldiers.

    rinkster wrote: »
    I'd love to be able to, but the current pets already have upgrade paths, as it were.

    However, for future, new pets, I'd like to see them plugged into the system.

    Yeah I noticed that. Looking at the Hangar Pets I think the main issue is, improving the current gear involves adding mods.

    Hangar pets have no mods. With the experience star system of hangar pets there's the potential to turn annoying pets into G**^%mn Bats.
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  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It would be a nice touch, guys, if upgrading fleet gear cost fleet credits instead of dil.
  • reverandclintreverandclint Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    By way of an example:

    I took a Counter-Command Bio-Phaser Beam Array MK-XII (Purple) & upgraded it.

    (12) Blue quality Beam Upgrades + 950dil each got it to 100% to upgrade and the the upgrade project took 10hr 40min (I just used dil & hit finish now to save time.)

    That got me a Purple MK-XIII which I upgraded again - (16) Blue Upgrades + 950dil each & I lucked out & got a critical on the upgrade (2% chance o.o) and wound up with an Elite MK-XIV which added a [Dmg] .. that was another 10hr 40min project.

    Tried a go at another upgrade but no luck but the beam array now has a base 3% chance to upgrade to Epic ... looks like it's adding about 1% to the base chance to upgrade the quality w/ each attempt.

    Now this is just using the blue quality upgrade kits ... the purple kits & the 'Experimental' kits do say they have a higher chance to get the quality upgrade ... i just didn't have the vr components to make any to try out.
  • donburritodonburrito Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    captaind3 wrote: »
    That's right. This is the pic from the blog.

    http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/arc/de/69/de69c2d76555669e78b57e3ba132d4ec1410890811.gif

    The purple bar at the bottom is research points, that represents the chance of increasing the quality on the item. Purple -> Gold.

    Using that Very Rare Upgrade kit on the Breen Oscillating shield with no accelerator only gives a 15% increase on the path to MkXIII. That requires about 85,120 Tech Points.

    The superior shield tech upgrade kit gives, 12,800 Tech points.

    http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/arc/a5/6a/a56acbfe28c41fb8c0e7432d4cc6f5531410890842.gif

    You'd need to run it about seven times to get the MkXIII item total dilithium cost 12,500 or so dilithium at 1885 per project run.

    For comparison an Elite Fleet shield is 13,000 dilithium.

    By the pictures.

    Yes but when you use the upgrade kits they have a chance to crit, which will give you 1.5 times the normal amount of Technology Points, therefore reducing the amount of kits you would need to get up to 85,120.
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