Your sensor probe discovers a critical weakness in the target's hull and shield systems. This devastating expose effect drastically reduces the target's damage resistance and shield hardness, causing the target to suffer significantly more damage while under this effect. In addition, Expose Vulnerability: Defenses also clears all Engineering buffs on the target.
The +plus dps ability
Ok, so a science officer will be able to subnuke, AoE subnuke and expose vulnerability: Defense. Yeesh! Pretty much have to write off any chance an engineer in a cruiser will last more than a few seconds pvping in X2 :rolleyes:.
You say that, but how often do you see Galaxies or Intrepids in STFs now?
I mostly see Scimitars, Avengers, Defiants, and lockbox ships. "Not everyone" means a small handful of people, which isn't very encouraging.
So these stats do matter. People have complained about the stats of the Galaxy for how many years now? A lot of people care, but a lot of people also don't want to hamstring their teams by bringing underpowered ships into STFs.
I don't want to join an STF at level 60, only for my teammates to roll their eyes at my Defiant because they're going to have to carry me, just because I'm too clingy to fly a decent ship. A lot of people probably think the same way. It's just rude to do group content and not bring your A-game.
Yes, but STF's are competitive queues - of course people wouldn't want to hamstring others in there. But they're not the only content
Plus, I've seen it all the time since Open Beta; a new ship would come out, would suddenly swarm the game, and then things relatively go back to the way it was. With T6, it's gonna be a lot of the same, just more intense since it's also a big expansion - some will stay with the T6, some won't, and some won't change their ships at all, all for different reasons.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
And yet I suspect at the end of the day (month in this case, after T6 actually debuts and things settle down), for some, it won't really matter
Not everyone wants the best-of-the-best, min-maxed stuff, or even DPS-only-builds
They also get an extra console slot, and all-but-one of the Starship Mastery additions - plus any Traits you get from T6 ships can be used on T5-U after you get them
It's not that big a diff imo - the rest is just difference of playstyle really
Ah, but then there's the just confirmed T6 Fleet variant, which has all the benefits of stock T6 which is already vastly superior to T5U, with an extra 10% hull, shields and an extra console to top it off.
So much for "not big a difference", eh?
I wonder when the first T6 lockbox will be announced, given how lockbox/lobi ships already have a history of being somewhat better then normal fleet ships, T6 lockbox is sure to be the crown on this new generation of powercreep.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
The Sci ship is decent enough but not to impressed with the look are these the only ships being launched as this expansion seems a little thin compared to lor.
I agree. There better be a heck of a lot of missions coming up with DR, especially since we aren't getting any new playable factions or races for that matter.
Ah, but then there's the just confirmed T6 Fleet variant, which has all the benefits of stock T6 which is already vastly superior to T5U, with an extra 10% hull, shields and an extra console to top it off.
So much for "not big a difference", eh?
I wonder when the first T6 lockbox will be announced, given how lockbox/lobi ships already have a history of being somewhat better then normal fleet ships, T6 lockbox is sure to be the crown on this new generation of powercreep.
Not everyone plays for DPS or min-maxing though
Plus, all this isn't even required for Delta Rising, as merely from Tribble the new content missions are able to be beaten by regular T5 ships. And I personally find the overall differences, even with Fleet T6, to be minimal enough that it's not really worth getting over my nine characters' ships in many cases
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I wonder when the first T6 lockbox will be announced, given how lockbox/lobi ships already have a history of being somewhat better then normal fleet ships, T6 lockbox is sure to be the crown on this new generation of powercreep.
It'll have to be, since it'll be a Borg Cooperative ship... :cool:
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
After going through the details I am definitely looking at upgrading my T5 and Fleet ships I fly to T5-U.
So what I see is some New T6 ships which I dislike the look of and cannot see me flying them for that reason first ( I have few ships I do like and all Store Ships as I will never Lockbox !)
Then Yes they do have an extra Boff skill (13 vs 12) but lesser HP and Shield compares to the ships I currently run. T5-U upgrades keeps this gain in check!
The clicky is just another Uni Console ( of which I have massive amount to chose from already and I find most Uni Consoles to be less useful than stat building consoles) The fact they will be 10 console same as Fleet or some C-Store (3 Pack) means I am a console up anyway on T5-U upgrade for all my ships, This suits my builds better where I generally dislike Uni Consoles ( Except Plasmonic Leech, Oddey 3 piece and MvAE Console)
The Space trait is just another Space Trait to choose from, and there are so many good Traits I have already set up on the ships I fly and they are not like UBER WOW that I must have them!
Its all a bit MeH to be fair and I cannot see me changing from the ships I love and have already, as they will be more than comparable for the PvE use I play anyway.
I do not PvP, but if I did, I see that really T6 will have the edge and be the only way to Dominate!
Caveat, this all changes at Fleet T6 though, when the 10% stats and extra console put T6 above T5-U in my style of gameplay.
Hopefully there are some nice looking T6 ships when I must upgrade, hell I will have enough Di-Li by then for a T6 for all my Toons.
Plus, all this isn't even required for Delta Rising, as merely from Tribble the new content missions are able to be beaten by regular T5 ships. And I personally find the overall differences, even with Fleet T6, to be minimal enough that it's not really worth getting over my nine characters' ships in many cases
You're reducing everything down to a false dichotomy.
Yes, people can be fine with not being #1 in every queue, but that doesn't mean they want to be a distant #5 being carried along "because the content isn't that hard anyways."
That's quite a long ways to be behind and still feel remotely like you are really "participating" in group/endgame content.
So much for their desire to narrow the gap between a freshly leveled character and someone who's at the bleeding edge. This is power creep on steroids compared to what we've had.
You're reducing everything down to a false dichotomy.
Yes, people can be fine with not being #1 in every queue, but that doesn't mean they want to be a distant #5 being carried along "because the content isn't that hard anyways."
That's quite a long ways to be behind and still feel remotely like you are really "participating" in group/endgame content.
So much for their desire to narrow the gap between a freshly leveled character and someone who's at the bleeding edge. This is power creep on steroids compared to what we've had.
I've been pleasingly surprised by this unexpectedly meaty monday blog.
The information on the first page was nice... but they added a next page button! Squee!
I have to say I'm quite fond of the intel ships; though my favorite so far is the Eclipse cruiser... with the Phantom and Faeht close behind. The Scryer is what I'd call the ugly duckling on the bunch, but I like all of them. If anything I'd like to see them from more varied angle (rear/flanks, notably).
The Scryer looks like a reskinned Sol class with less personality and an absolutely ridiculous space in the saucer section. What a waste of space. It's starship not a space station, there's no reason to put a ring of space in the middle of a saucer section.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
You're reducing everything down to a false dichotomy.
Yes, people can be fine with not being #1 in every queue, but that doesn't mean they want to be a distant #5 being carried along "because the content isn't that hard anyways."
That's quite a long ways to be behind and still feel remotely like you are really "participating" in group/endgame content.
So much for their desire to narrow the gap between a freshly leveled character and someone who's at the bleeding edge. This is power creep on steroids compared to what we've had.
The problem with that list is, with T6 stats and their new gimmicks (even with flexibility), they're not really a step above T5U - they're far more in the same group imo, as far as effectiveness. For me, the differences just aren't significant enough to say they're otherwise - they're not really the next Tier despite saying they are
And yes, people can still feel like they're participating; people's opinions are vastly different after all. Plus imho, much like 'no competitive', 'power creep on steroids' just seems like a lot of other assuming claims right now
Ultimately though, it's a matter of opinion. I simply don't see these T6's as significantly better enough to warrant getting them permanently over T5-U's
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
You're reducing everything down to a false dichotomy.
Yes, people can be fine with not being #1 in every queue, but that doesn't mean they want to be a distant #5 being carried along "because the content isn't that hard anyways."
That's quite a long ways to be behind and still feel remotely like you are really "participating" in group/endgame content.
So much for their desire to narrow the gap between a freshly leveled character and someone who's at the bleeding edge. This is power creep on steroids compared to what we've had.
But my T5 will still look better than the T6 offering, and for that I do not care for being last and doing the least DPS.
Still this is an awesome post that sums it up really well!
Just reading though the comments on this thread, the roll-out of explanations on this expansion has not gone well. I've seen several comments on this topic stating that Fleet Tier 6 will have 12 consoles, really just 11 like Fleet T5U since Tier 6 also starts at 10. And that's just one example. We are certainly not off to a smooth start with the lack of clarity and misinformation I am seeing. Hoping it's going over better with the folks who do not read the forums.
From what I can gather from all of this, the PVP crowd is in for a shakeup, but most players will upgrade to T5U to keep their favorite ship(s), or not, perhaps dabble with a T6 that strikes their fancy and continue to mostly breeze through PVE and grind for whatever shiny is next.
Looking like my wallet will stay pretty intact so far. I'm just feeling very meh about the Intel ships and officers. Adding new abilities to for the existing trinity of bridge officers would have perked my pointy ears up though. *fingers crossed*
I think the information makes plenty of sense. What doesn't is people's ability to read and comprehend. People are commenting on things that aren't there as well or making assumptions on other items.
Q: Will Fleet variants of the Intel ships be available at Delta Rising launch?
A: Fleet Intel starships will be released sometime after Delta Rising launch.
I think it will be sometime until this happens... as there will probably be some new fleet stuff to go with it. I hope there will be retrofit/refit T5 ships in there too that will be T6's.
I'm glad the intelligence ships will be slightly more squishy than a T5-U.
However, all this rage can be solved if T5-U can be modified to a full T6 upgrade. That way, those that prefer to buy the super shiny T6 fleet ships can get their edge while those that prefer their iconic T5 ships can upgrade to a T6 and actually be competitive at end game.
This would truly solve all problems and will preserve the current system we have now.
I really don't want to see T5 fully upgradable as it defeats the purpose of a new level with new ships and new gear. I am testing on tribble and using my fleet ship and its not difficult. Sure it maybe hard to remain competitive in PvP but that remains to be seen since the ships aren't available.
If you want T6 then buy T6 or wait and grind zen to get them in the c-store. It's not a hard concept to grasp since every tier has new more powerful ships. There were never free T5 ships either despite folks assertions. You had to either be a vet or grind for them, so in either case you paid for a t5 ship, so t6 shouldn't be any different.
I have bought ships at all tiers and don't have a problem buying new ones. I have 15 toons and will most likely fly a mix of old and new like I do now. With ship swapping its easy to have different ships for different purposes. If anything, they have been more than generous in keeping t5 ships relevant. Most games would have said time to buy new stuff or get pummeled.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Those new ships look really great. The stats are incredible, and will give any of my current ones a run for their money.
I would love to have that new heavy lance mounted on my Galaxy Dread. That would really help out on the additional firepower of the ship. Maybe like skill to activate it, like high yield lance. The plasma beam for the Romulan would be sweet on my DD bird as well.
However the ships are kinda meh to me. I don't do PVP or STF. So I'm in no hurry to get them. As I really don't need the best or top notch gear to play and enjoy the game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Please show me where I was talking about durability.
My issue is that they made a copy paste job from one ship to another and then simply changed hull and turnrate.
Everything else is identical.
That is extra cheap and should not be done.
Crew is significantly higher... it's really starting to look like the devs are taking the borked crew mechanics and using them as a balancing factor rather than tinkering to make it work in a more logical manner. Well, that and it's the only ship available to the Klingon players, while Federation players (as usual) get far more options as far as ships, with the additional Starship Traits leaving the Federation ahead... the DR pack is looking better and better if you're a Federation-only or Federation-main player.
Q: Will Fleet variants of the Intel ships be available at Delta Rising launch?
A: Fleet Intel starships will be released sometime after Delta Rising launch.
...and apply the +10% Hull, +10% Shields, and +1 console to...
•Requires: Vice Admiral or Lt. General Rank
•Hull Strength: 34,500 (unknown, but likely comparable to eventual Fleet Eclipse going by the comparative baseline hull ratings)
•Shield Modifier: 1
•Crew: 50
•Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft
•Device Slots: 2
•Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Commander Tactical, 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Ensign Engineering, 2 Lieutenant Universal
•Console Modifications: 5 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 1 (2 at the free upgrade to T5-U11) Science
•Base Turn Rate: 20 degrees per second
•Impulse Modifier: 0.22
•Inertia: 70
•+15 Power to Weapons
•Can Load Cannons
•Starship Ability Package (at the free upgrade to T5-U11)
◦Precise Weapon Systems (+Accuracy)
◦Tactical Maneuvering (+Defense)
◦Enhanced Weapon Systems (+Weapon Damage)
◦Devastating Weaponry (+Critical Chance)
...but better. It looks like a good time to sell your JHAS before folks start realizing the comparison. The T5-U11 JHAS would still have comparable stats to the eventual Fleet Eclipse... until you factor in the Lt Cmdr boff ability, Cloaking Device, Active Sensor Arrays, and Starship Trait (Reciprocity) that synergized with the Escort ship-type and passive. You lose a some turn and gain a little crew, but that eventual Fleet Eclipse looks like a vastly less expensive replacement for a JHAS...
And that's just one comparison... it isn't looking like our T5-U ships are going to remain as "competitive" as we initially thought, not even the Event/Lobi/Lockbox/Promotion versions; that category at least needs the ability to attain full T6.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Gather Intelligence+Expose, the extra (high level) boff ability slot, the flexibility of being able to slot four types of boff abilities (while everyone else gets stuck with Sci/Eg/Tac), cloak and dual cannons, consoles that sound really powerful, and starship traits, for a little less hull as tradeoff? And with the promise of fleet versions on the horizon?
Cryptic just blew their promises of T5u being competitive out of the water. I wish this was a joke, because everything released so far seems to point to Cryptic wanting to make T5u/T5uFleet being a joke compared to their T6 equivalents.
And with that goes any thoughts I had about upgrading my current fleet level ships to T5-U. Why should I bother wasting money on my favorite ships (which I already paid $30 for, bought and upgraded my patrol escort 3 months ago) when they will be completely useless for PvP (which is why I bought the FPER in the first place).
I know the phantom is more akin to the defiant but the standard bridge layout is similar to the Tempest and based on crew compliment I can assume of a similar size.
FPER stats Vs. Fleet Phantom (assumed stats based on standard 10% rule)
34,700 hull (upgrade value not known) vs 41,800 hull (38,000 non fleet at level 60)
1.045 shield mod vs .99 shield mod
16 turn rate vs 17 turn rate
60 inertia vs 75 inertia
impulse modifier .2 vs impulse modifier .22
+15 bonus power vs +20 bonus power
200 crew vs 150 crew
10 consoles (11 with upgrade) vs 11 consoles
12 Boff stations vs 13 boff stations (with 2 intel seats)
Nadion bomb console vs phaser lance console
4 / 3+1 weapons loadout vs 4 / 3 weapons loadout
No special abilities vs active sensor arrays and integrated cloak
no mastery trait vs reciprocity trait
So we can assume after the upgrade the Tempest will have a tail gun and a little more hull and shields. The phantom will have a bonus ensign slot, access to two intel officers, and it will be faster and more agile. The phantom will have 2 special abilities and +5 bonus power.
Had I compared the Phantom to the defiant the disparity would be even larger.
By this comparison we can see that T6 ships outclass T5 in every concievable way. Please explain to me how T5-U will be "competitive" with T-6? Unless you mean an experienced T5-U captain can "compete" with a complete and total noob in a T6? Or perhaps a T5-U captain can "compete" with his wallet when deciding whether or not to buy the new ship or quit the game?
[Combat (Self)] Your Crystalline Refraction - Phaser deals 398195 (682959) Phaser Damage to Evul Klingon.
Someone needs to define the word "obsolete" for me. Because by the look of these vessels, and with fleet T6s on the horizon, I don't even see a bright future for my Scimitar... why should I invest anything in a dead end?
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
You say that, but how often do you see Galaxies or Intrepids in STFs now?
I mostly see Scimitars, Avengers, Defiants, and lockbox ships. "Not everyone" means a small handful of people, which isn't very encouraging.
So these stats do matter. People have complained about the stats of the Galaxy for how many years now? A lot of people care, but a lot of people also don't want to hamstring their teams by bringing underpowered ships into STFs.
I don't want to join an STF at level 60, only for my teammates to roll their eyes at my Defiant because they're going to have to carry me, just because I'm too clingy to fly a decent ship. A lot of people probably think the same way. It's just rude to do group content and not bring your A-game.
You would be surprised at the number of exploration cruisers and long range science vessels I've seen in elite STFs. And they hold their own.
Min/max'd DPS death boats are not necessary to beat ESTFs with the optional. Having them on a team is just a bonus and speeds things up a bit. A well equipped ride, and knowing what the hell to do, is what wins STFs.
And I seriously doubt a team will have to carry you after the expansion. If your Defiant kicks TRIBBLE now, it will continue to kick TRIBBLE. Even more TRIBBLE will be kicked if you upgrade.
Tier Six, in all likelihood, won't mean your ride will have to be relegated to the digital scrap heap.
- The ships are visually unappealing, to the extremes.
- On top of that, they don't even have the flexibility of universal boff slots which current top-tier ships have. These "intel" slots can only take intel or a fixed class (eng, sci, tac). That's a step BACKWARDS from what we already have.
- You basically renamed beam target: subsystem and gave it to all craft
- You create a "gather intel" mechanic which is essentially a copy of sensor analysis or a number of other things in the game.
- The big whoop about consoles is they're all recycled from existing things. Phaser lance? Gal-X. Struc. Integ. siphon? Minor variation of Valdore console, only healing hull instead of shields. Sensor probe swarm? FBP, EWP, Photonic shockwave, you name it, it's already there. You just changed the visuals to be dots instead of plumes of plasma. Weapon systems siphon? Plasmonic Leech, yo. You just made it less effective and only stacks 3x.
- starship traits? Really? Seems to be mostly recycled stuff. Includingi advanced firing. I mean, come on! It's basically just a [thrust] proc we already see on crafted items. Tactical retreat: seen on NPCs already. Basically a JH ground set shroud proc for ships.
It seems almost every feature of these ships is a step backwards in functionality, flexibility, and overall enjoyability. For the astounding price tied to these ships, I simply must ask....
What the heck have you been doing this entire time? Because it doesn't seem to be "coming up with anything new" -- and yes I'm being quite harsh right now. It's needed at the moment. Cryptic, you need a reality check as badly as George Lucas did while writing The Phantom Menace. You're ignoring the world around you and marching on stoically, determined to prove the world wrong. Then you hold it against the world when it doesn't agree with what you've done.
Agreed wholeheartedly. And to top it off, they use these poorly designed (aesthetic and stat-wise) ships to make canon and hero ships obsolete. We've been saying this for a while Cryptic, but you're not getting it: the reason we've put up with your ham-handed handling of this IP is because it's Star Trek, because we're fans of the shows. I doubt anyone is happy that they won't be able to keep using the hero ships... because what you're proposing is neither "competitive" nor is it "taking care of us"
Along the way, you also manage to shoot yourselves in the foot. Why would anyone want to spend money chasing the older lockbox ships? Or buying the Cstore bundles?
Someone needs to define the word "obsolete" for me. Because by the look of these vessels, and with fleet T6s on the horizon, I don't even see a bright future for my Scimitar... why should I invest anything in a dead end?
Agreed wholeheartedly. And to top it off, they use these poorly designed (aesthetic and stat-wise) ships to make canon and hero ships obsolete. We've been saying this for a while Cryptic, but you're not getting it: the reason we've put up with your ham-handed handling of this IP is because it's Star Trek, because we're fans of the shows. I doubt anyone is happy that they won't be able to keep using the hero ships... because what you're proposing is neither "competitive" not is it "taking care of us"
Along the way, you also manage to shoot yourselves in the foot. Why would anyone want to spend money chasing the older lockbox ships? Or buying the Cstore bundles?
I think you'd be surprised lol
Because 1) Some actually like the design aesthetic (which is purposefully not like the usual in many ways) 2) opinions about how 'good' these ships are vary, and some of those include 'these ships aren't exactly what people are cracking them up to be' (and thus their hero ships still rule), and 3) even if they are overwhelmingly better, there will still be people who choose the hero ships anyway
I still say the Scryer Intel Science Vessel looks real nice.
Any chance of a video showing these ships one-by-one and what they come with? Nice you type out the list of specs but, Pictures would show more long side the text specs. Is it just stock Mark 12 basic FED gear when you purchase these ships?
Or are these going to come with phase BIO Phaser Tech Weapons or higher. I need to see how they perform. Use the 8472 Sphere mission and do a run though of these. If not then just have to wait until someone gets one and post a video on you tube showing what you really get and it performs.
Thanks for the text specs..
Also
To bad, this science ship doesn't come with dual fore and dual aft weapons slots that would be 12 slots in total for weapons. That would have a lot of fire-power
Dual AUX
AUX Power to Weapons at +20
AUX Power to Battery +20
AUX Power to Shields +20
AUX Power to Engines +20 in Combat (no loss in power)
The more information comes out and the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to believe that the whole T6 stuff is unnecessary. They mostly release ships that are basically a new class of ship, intel. They could have done that without that upgrade chaos.
I went from really looking forward to the new expansion prior to STLV to being very hesitant after finding out about there being T6 ships.
After some more things were said by the Devs, I started feeling more optimistic about the possibility of being able to use my "old" T5 ships and being able to upgrade them to be competitive with T6. After seeing more info from the Delta Rising: Operations Pack, I'd pretty much talked myself into forking over the $125 for the pack.
Now today, with this info released on the stats of the T6 ships, I've not only decided NOT to buy the pack, but I'm going to wait and see what the final state of Delta Rising is like before I decide if I'm going to continue playing.
Sure, I only PvE and the T5 ships will likely be just fine for that...
Until they decide to raise the level cap again, from 60-70. Then you'd likely HAVE to have at least a T6 ship to complete that content. Which will of course mean there will be T7 ships for THAT cap increase.
And when they decide to raise the cap from 70-80, eh, you get the idea.
I have no real problem with level cap increases.
I have no problem with gear paid for with in game currency (EC, Fleet Credit, Dil) becoming obsolete.
I *DO* have a problem with gear that was paid for with Zen becoming obsolete. (If Zen was sold to get Dil then hey, players choice to 'rush' things instead of just saving up the Dil.) Mind you, I can't think of any piece of gear that is bought for Zen, just stating my position. But, it does tie in with my next point, for those that will argue that "ships are gear".
One thing that should never become obsolete though is my avatar. And now, with the release of DR, my T5 ships, which are my "space avatar", are now obsolete. I find this disturbing.
Granted, new content is being released and built around the idea of T6 ships and the increased power they possess. But why can't I simply upgrade my T5 avatars to be on EQUAL footing?
According to the Q&A, T5 upgrades will probably be $5-$10.
I've spent a lot of money buying C-Store ships, but even so, I don't feel I should get an upgrade for free. I'm willing to pay for EQUAL footing, but I won't pay to come in second or third best. (First being regular T6 and then those becoming second best once T6 fleet ships come out.)
I will not pay anything more than $5 to upgrade from one level to the next, period. With what I'm seeing for current upgrades for T5's to become T5-U's, it's not worth it. If it's $5, it better a one time fee for ALL T5 ships on the account. If it's a fee per ship, it dang well should be upgrading to full T6.
If I'm going to spend $5 to upgrade each of my T5 ships, and I have LOADS of T5 ships I use, then by spending that extra money, they should be relatively equal to T6. With what I'm seeing with the release of the T6 ship stats, they won't be. Especially once the fleet T6's come out.
I'm willing to pay, at most, $25 for a ship. This includes T6 ships. If T6 ships are $30, I won't buy them.
I'll pay a $5 fee to buy a Fleet Ship Module to upgrade my T5 C-Store ships to Fleet status. I will even pay an additional $5 fee to upgrade those fleet ships to FULL T6 (fleet) status. Or a $10 fee to upgrade from regular T5 to FULL T6 (fleet) since there are some T5 ships that don't have a fleet version, like my Steamrunner. And when T6 ships come out, I'd be willing to buy them for $25, and spend $5 for a fleet mod to upgrade them to T6 Fleet.
Wow, look at that, I'm willing to spend more money upgrading my old T5's than I am to switch to 'out of the wrapper' T6's.
If only this were the way it worked. I'll just wait and see how things pan out.
Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day.
Set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Comments
The +plus dps ability
Ok, so a science officer will be able to subnuke, AoE subnuke and expose vulnerability: Defense. Yeesh! Pretty much have to write off any chance an engineer in a cruiser will last more than a few seconds pvping in X2 :rolleyes:.
Plus, I've seen it all the time since Open Beta; a new ship would come out, would suddenly swarm the game, and then things relatively go back to the way it was. With T6, it's gonna be a lot of the same, just more intense since it's also a big expansion - some will stay with the T6, some won't, and some won't change their ships at all, all for different reasons.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Ah, but then there's the just confirmed T6 Fleet variant, which has all the benefits of stock T6 which is already vastly superior to T5U, with an extra 10% hull, shields and an extra console to top it off.
So much for "not big a difference", eh?
I wonder when the first T6 lockbox will be announced, given how lockbox/lobi ships already have a history of being somewhat better then normal fleet ships, T6 lockbox is sure to be the crown on this new generation of powercreep.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree. There better be a heck of a lot of missions coming up with DR, especially since we aren't getting any new playable factions or races for that matter.
Plus, all this isn't even required for Delta Rising, as merely from Tribble the new content missions are able to be beaten by regular T5 ships. And I personally find the overall differences, even with Fleet T6, to be minimal enough that it's not really worth getting over my nine characters' ships in many cases
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
It'll have to be, since it'll be a Borg Cooperative ship... :cool:
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
So what I see is some New T6 ships which I dislike the look of and cannot see me flying them for that reason first ( I have few ships I do like and all Store Ships as I will never Lockbox !)
Then Yes they do have an extra Boff skill (13 vs 12) but lesser HP and Shield compares to the ships I currently run. T5-U upgrades keeps this gain in check!
The clicky is just another Uni Console ( of which I have massive amount to chose from already and I find most Uni Consoles to be less useful than stat building consoles) The fact they will be 10 console same as Fleet or some C-Store (3 Pack) means I am a console up anyway on T5-U upgrade for all my ships, This suits my builds better where I generally dislike Uni Consoles ( Except Plasmonic Leech, Oddey 3 piece and MvAE Console)
The Space trait is just another Space Trait to choose from, and there are so many good Traits I have already set up on the ships I fly and they are not like UBER WOW that I must have them!
Its all a bit MeH to be fair and I cannot see me changing from the ships I love and have already, as they will be more than comparable for the PvE use I play anyway.
I do not PvP, but if I did, I see that really T6 will have the edge and be the only way to Dominate!
Caveat, this all changes at Fleet T6 though, when the 10% stats and extra console put T6 above T5-U in my style of gameplay.
Hopefully there are some nice looking T6 ships when I must upgrade, hell I will have enough Di-Li by then for a T6 for all my Toons.
Currently my Fav Ship is still NC1701 freebie
You're reducing everything down to a false dichotomy.
Yes, people can be fine with not being #1 in every queue, but that doesn't mean they want to be a distant #5 being carried along "because the content isn't that hard anyways."
T5
T5U10
Fleet T5
Lockbox/Lobi T5
T5U11
T6
Fleet T6
(eventually) Lockbox/Lobi T6
That's quite a long ways to be behind and still feel remotely like you are really "participating" in group/endgame content.
So much for their desire to narrow the gap between a freshly leveled character and someone who's at the bleeding edge. This is power creep on steroids compared to what we've had.
The Scryer looks like a reskinned Sol class with less personality and an absolutely ridiculous space in the saucer section. What a waste of space. It's starship not a space station, there's no reason to put a ring of space in the middle of a saucer section.
And yes, people can still feel like they're participating; people's opinions are vastly different after all. Plus imho, much like 'no competitive', 'power creep on steroids' just seems like a lot of other assuming claims right now
Ultimately though, it's a matter of opinion. I simply don't see these T6's as significantly better enough to warrant getting them permanently over T5-U's
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
But my T5 will still look better than the T6 offering, and for that I do not care for being last and doing the least DPS.
Still this is an awesome post that sums it up really well!
I think the information makes plenty of sense. What doesn't is people's ability to read and comprehend. People are commenting on things that aren't there as well or making assumptions on other items.
I think it will be sometime until this happens... as there will probably be some new fleet stuff to go with it. I hope there will be retrofit/refit T5 ships in there too that will be T6's.
I really don't want to see T5 fully upgradable as it defeats the purpose of a new level with new ships and new gear. I am testing on tribble and using my fleet ship and its not difficult. Sure it maybe hard to remain competitive in PvP but that remains to be seen since the ships aren't available.
If you want T6 then buy T6 or wait and grind zen to get them in the c-store. It's not a hard concept to grasp since every tier has new more powerful ships. There were never free T5 ships either despite folks assertions. You had to either be a vet or grind for them, so in either case you paid for a t5 ship, so t6 shouldn't be any different.
I have bought ships at all tiers and don't have a problem buying new ones. I have 15 toons and will most likely fly a mix of old and new like I do now. With ship swapping its easy to have different ships for different purposes. If anything, they have been more than generous in keeping t5 ships relevant. Most games would have said time to buy new stuff or get pummeled.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I would love to have that new heavy lance mounted on my Galaxy Dread. That would really help out on the additional firepower of the ship. Maybe like skill to activate it, like high yield lance. The plasma beam for the Romulan would be sweet on my DD bird as well.
However the ships are kinda meh to me. I don't do PVP or STF. So I'm in no hurry to get them. As I really don't need the best or top notch gear to play and enjoy the game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Elachi S'Golth?
But in any case, if you take... ...and apply the +10% Hull, +10% Shields, and +1 console to... ...you get something rather like... ...but better. It looks like a good time to sell your JHAS before folks start realizing the comparison. The T5-U11 JHAS would still have comparable stats to the eventual Fleet Eclipse... until you factor in the Lt Cmdr boff ability, Cloaking Device, Active Sensor Arrays, and Starship Trait (Reciprocity) that synergized with the Escort ship-type and passive. You lose a some turn and gain a little crew, but that eventual Fleet Eclipse looks like a vastly less expensive replacement for a JHAS...
And that's just one comparison... it isn't looking like our T5-U ships are going to remain as "competitive" as we initially thought, not even the Event/Lobi/Lockbox/Promotion versions; that category at least needs the ability to attain full T6.
And with that goes any thoughts I had about upgrading my current fleet level ships to T5-U. Why should I bother wasting money on my favorite ships (which I already paid $30 for, bought and upgraded my patrol escort 3 months ago) when they will be completely useless for PvP (which is why I bought the FPER in the first place).
I know the phantom is more akin to the defiant but the standard bridge layout is similar to the Tempest and based on crew compliment I can assume of a similar size.
FPER stats Vs. Fleet Phantom (assumed stats based on standard 10% rule)
34,700 hull (upgrade value not known) vs 41,800 hull (38,000 non fleet at level 60)
1.045 shield mod vs .99 shield mod
16 turn rate vs 17 turn rate
60 inertia vs 75 inertia
impulse modifier .2 vs impulse modifier .22
+15 bonus power vs +20 bonus power
200 crew vs 150 crew
10 consoles (11 with upgrade) vs 11 consoles
12 Boff stations vs 13 boff stations (with 2 intel seats)
Nadion bomb console vs phaser lance console
4 / 3+1 weapons loadout vs 4 / 3 weapons loadout
No special abilities vs active sensor arrays and integrated cloak
no mastery trait vs reciprocity trait
So we can assume after the upgrade the Tempest will have a tail gun and a little more hull and shields. The phantom will have a bonus ensign slot, access to two intel officers, and it will be faster and more agile. The phantom will have 2 special abilities and +5 bonus power.
Had I compared the Phantom to the defiant the disparity would be even larger.
By this comparison we can see that T6 ships outclass T5 in every concievable way. Please explain to me how T5-U will be "competitive" with T-6? Unless you mean an experienced T5-U captain can "compete" with a complete and total noob in a T6? Or perhaps a T5-U captain can "compete" with his wallet when deciding whether or not to buy the new ship or quit the game?
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Not much else to say on this topic, but holy cow those things are nuts in the hands of a decent player.
Just imagine what an indecent player would do to you with those things in PvP :P
You would be surprised at the number of exploration cruisers and long range science vessels I've seen in elite STFs. And they hold their own.
Min/max'd DPS death boats are not necessary to beat ESTFs with the optional. Having them on a team is just a bonus and speeds things up a bit. A well equipped ride, and knowing what the hell to do, is what wins STFs.
And I seriously doubt a team will have to carry you after the expansion. If your Defiant kicks TRIBBLE now, it will continue to kick TRIBBLE. Even more TRIBBLE will be kicked if you upgrade.
Tier Six, in all likelihood, won't mean your ride will have to be relegated to the digital scrap heap.
Agreed wholeheartedly. And to top it off, they use these poorly designed (aesthetic and stat-wise) ships to make canon and hero ships obsolete. We've been saying this for a while Cryptic, but you're not getting it: the reason we've put up with your ham-handed handling of this IP is because it's Star Trek, because we're fans of the shows. I doubt anyone is happy that they won't be able to keep using the hero ships... because what you're proposing is neither "competitive" nor is it "taking care of us"
Along the way, you also manage to shoot yourselves in the foot. Why would anyone want to spend money chasing the older lockbox ships? Or buying the Cstore bundles?
That is indeed a typo. It should read:
1 Lieutenant Tactical/Intel, 1 Lieutenant Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 1 Commander Science/Intel, 1 Ensign Universal for a total of 13 seats.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/obsolete
Also... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fleece?s=t
Thanks for the heads up. I was wondering about that.
Because 1) Some actually like the design aesthetic (which is purposefully not like the usual in many ways) 2) opinions about how 'good' these ships are vary, and some of those include 'these ships aren't exactly what people are cracking them up to be' (and thus their hero ships still rule), and 3) even if they are overwhelmingly better, there will still be people who choose the hero ships anyway Luckily for some, those definitions still don't apply; opinions and all that
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Any chance of a video showing these ships one-by-one and what they come with? Nice you type out the list of specs but, Pictures would show more long side the text specs. Is it just stock Mark 12 basic FED gear when you purchase these ships?
Or are these going to come with phase BIO Phaser Tech Weapons or higher. I need to see how they perform. Use the 8472 Sphere mission and do a run though of these. If not then just have to wait until someone gets one and post a video on you tube showing what you really get and it performs.
Thanks for the text specs..
Also
To bad, this science ship doesn't come with dual fore and dual aft weapons slots that would be 12 slots in total for weapons. That would have a lot of fire-power
Dual AUX
AUX Power to Weapons at +20
AUX Power to Battery +20
AUX Power to Shields +20
AUX Power to Engines +20 in Combat (no loss in power)
Dual Shields
2 Slots instead of 1
Dual Device Slots
6 Max
Time will only tell!
I went from really looking forward to the new expansion prior to STLV to being very hesitant after finding out about there being T6 ships.
After some more things were said by the Devs, I started feeling more optimistic about the possibility of being able to use my "old" T5 ships and being able to upgrade them to be competitive with T6. After seeing more info from the Delta Rising: Operations Pack, I'd pretty much talked myself into forking over the $125 for the pack.
Now today, with this info released on the stats of the T6 ships, I've not only decided NOT to buy the pack, but I'm going to wait and see what the final state of Delta Rising is like before I decide if I'm going to continue playing.
Sure, I only PvE and the T5 ships will likely be just fine for that...
Until they decide to raise the level cap again, from 60-70. Then you'd likely HAVE to have at least a T6 ship to complete that content. Which will of course mean there will be T7 ships for THAT cap increase.
And when they decide to raise the cap from 70-80, eh, you get the idea.
I have no real problem with level cap increases.
I have no problem with gear paid for with in game currency (EC, Fleet Credit, Dil) becoming obsolete.
I *DO* have a problem with gear that was paid for with Zen becoming obsolete. (If Zen was sold to get Dil then hey, players choice to 'rush' things instead of just saving up the Dil.) Mind you, I can't think of any piece of gear that is bought for Zen, just stating my position. But, it does tie in with my next point, for those that will argue that "ships are gear".
One thing that should never become obsolete though is my avatar. And now, with the release of DR, my T5 ships, which are my "space avatar", are now obsolete. I find this disturbing.
Granted, new content is being released and built around the idea of T6 ships and the increased power they possess. But why can't I simply upgrade my T5 avatars to be on EQUAL footing?
I've spent a lot of money buying C-Store ships, but even so, I don't feel I should get an upgrade for free. I'm willing to pay for EQUAL footing, but I won't pay to come in second or third best. (First being regular T6 and then those becoming second best once T6 fleet ships come out.)
I will not pay anything more than $5 to upgrade from one level to the next, period. With what I'm seeing for current upgrades for T5's to become T5-U's, it's not worth it. If it's $5, it better a one time fee for ALL T5 ships on the account. If it's a fee per ship, it dang well should be upgrading to full T6.
If I'm going to spend $5 to upgrade each of my T5 ships, and I have LOADS of T5 ships I use, then by spending that extra money, they should be relatively equal to T6. With what I'm seeing with the release of the T6 ship stats, they won't be. Especially once the fleet T6's come out.
I'm willing to pay, at most, $25 for a ship. This includes T6 ships. If T6 ships are $30, I won't buy them.
I'll pay a $5 fee to buy a Fleet Ship Module to upgrade my T5 C-Store ships to Fleet status. I will even pay an additional $5 fee to upgrade those fleet ships to FULL T6 (fleet) status. Or a $10 fee to upgrade from regular T5 to FULL T6 (fleet) since there are some T5 ships that don't have a fleet version, like my Steamrunner. And when T6 ships come out, I'd be willing to buy them for $25, and spend $5 for a fleet mod to upgrade them to T6 Fleet.
Wow, look at that, I'm willing to spend more money upgrading my old T5's than I am to switch to 'out of the wrapper' T6's.
If only this were the way it worked. I'll just wait and see how things pan out.
Set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
I take offense to that. I have a couple wiener dogs. One is brown and the other is black and white. They're cute but bark at the neighbors a lot.
Oh I get it! HA ha!
Always one of my concerns with purchases at late. But so is the nature of the business.
Cryptic does have the right to tweak things after purchase.
But I can't recall it happening often if ever, so don't worry much.