I took it for granted that people know there are fleets that offer the free purchase of Fleet ships. Didn't realize that it would need to be stated...there are multiple threads on the matter, Hell, there have been multiple flamewars over the matter between the fleets that charge and the fleets that offer the service free.
A bunch of folks here like to make the claim that folks are Cryptic Defenders, Cheerleaders, what have you...when if you look at their posts, all they're doing is pointing out where the other folks are wrong. That's not defending Cryptic - that's just pointing out where folks are wrong. Somebody pointing out that you are wrong does not make them a Cryptic Cheerleader. All those discussions tend to do is distract from where we could be hammering Cryptic with our constructive negative feedback about what they're doing...and as twisted as it may seem, I sometimes wonder if it is those folks that are actually the Cryptic Defenders - derailing the topics with all sorts of misinformation so folks can't complain about the actual information. Crazy, eh? But yeah, sometimes I wonder if Cryptic's just not devious enough to do something like that...
A bunch of folks here like to make the claim that folks are Cryptic Defenders, Cheerleaders, what have you...when if you look at their posts, all they're doing is pointing out where the other folks are wrong. That's not defending Cryptic - that's just pointing out where folks are wrong. Somebody pointing out that you are wrong does not make them a Cryptic Cheerleader. All those discussions tend to do is distract from where we could be hammering Cryptic with our constructive negative feedback about what they're doing...and as twisted as it may seem, I sometimes wonder if it is those folks that are actually the Cryptic Defenders - derailing the topics with all sorts of misinformation so folks can't complain about the actual information. Crazy, eh? But yeah, sometimes I wonder if Cryptic's just not devious enough to do something like that...
Although you are right... pointing out where someone's opinion or ideas are wrong derails the topic as well. Like you said "All those discussions tend to do is distract from where we could be hammering Cryptic with our constructive negative feedback about what they're doing", telling someone off or telling them their wrong falls under the same boat. So it is defending Cryptic when you decide to go against the negative feedback and derail the potential progress it could make. IF the Devs even listen to us.
Currently he can have the ship skin AND seating he likes AND still be viable in group content.
Two months from now he will have to give up one of those things.
He did nothing to deserve having that taken away from him.
You can dismiss and minimize what priorities of preference people have all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that they're going from a system that facilitates what they like to one that doesn't.
Cryptic has said "and most queues"...leaving some unannounced/unexplained/lack of clarification as to what the other side of that most queues means...because the current content, the new content, patrols, etc, etc, etc..."and most queues" will not require anything more than what you've got already.
So saying that two months from now he will no longer be viable...is potentially only partially correct; because we do not know what the other side of that "and most queues" will be. Will there be some new level of difficulty for the queues that will require a T5-U/T6 ship? That's the only way it could be "and most queues"...because if it were a case of just Elite requiring a T5-U/T6 ship, then they could not say "and most queues"...though they could, technically - and be mistaken - need to revise it, etc, etc, etc. But until they've said it...it's just speculation to think you have to do anything in regard to the T5-U/T6 ships at all.
Cryptic has said "and most queues"...leaving some unannounced/unexplained/lack of clarification as to what the other side of that most queues means...because the current content, the new content, patrols, etc, etc, etc..."and most queues" will not require anything more than what you've got already.
So saying that two months from now he will no longer be viable...is potentially only partially correct; because we do not know what the other side of that "and most queues" will be. Will there be some new level of difficulty for the queues that will require a T5-U/T6 ship? That's the only way it could be "and most queues"...because if it were a case of just Elite requiring a T5-U/T6 ship, then they could not say "and most queues"...though they could, technically - and be mistaken - need to revise it, etc, etc, etc. But until they've said it...it's just speculation to think you have to do anything in regard to the T5-U/T6 ships at all.
Regardless, this new expansion will not be 100% free for the players. This, as I've said before, goes against the F2P model.
Tier 6 ships gain stat improvements that you would expect from a new tier of starship. These ships gain an additional console slot, an additional bridge officer ability slot, and a sizeable amount of additional hit points. A new feature of Tier 6 ships is that their hit points increase as the captain levels up.
Plus the 5th passive could provide +20% hit-points or something, not part of the base but there if you want it
Also Gorngonzolla's subsequent statement was comparing T5 with two upgrades (T5.5-U) to base T6 with no upgrades, and did not say anything about T6 after some future upgrade. I choose not to live in disbelief that future upgrades will not come (ie, Fleet).
Plus the 5th passive could provide +20% hit-points or something, not part of the base but there if you want it
Also Gorngonzolla's subsequent statement was comparing T5 with two upgrades (T5.5-U) to base T6 with no upgrades, and did not say anything about T6 after some future upgrade. I choose not to live in disbelief that future upgrades will not come (ie, Fleet).
Why would there NOT be fleet T6 and T6 lobi/lockbox ships coming? Seems natural that they will come.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Although you are right... pointing out where someone's opinion or ideas are wrong derails the topic as well. Like you said "All those discussions tend to do is distract from where we could be hammering Cryptic with our constructive negative feedback about what they're doing", telling someone off or telling them their wrong falls under the same boat. So it is defending Cryptic when you decide to go against the negative feedback and derail the potential progress it could make. IF the Devs even listen to us.
If somebody says X, when the devs have explicitly said Y, correcting the person that said X is not a derailment.
How much time have you seen me arguing with folks about the costs and their opinions there?
How much time have you seen me linking to the blogs, linking to dev statements, etc?
Hell, I've made my own complaints in this thread about the Event ships being free.
I've got my own concerns about the multiple costs involved depending on the player and trying to get to T5-U.
Consider the following, eh? Going with that Assault Cruiser mentioned earlier and the upgrade path I laid out. I think it's kind of a screwy one, personally.
Assault Cruiser
So the person drops out 2500 ZEN for the Assault Cruiser Refit.
They're not in a position to pick up a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit for a period of time, but they want to go T5-U. So they shell out X ZEN for the T5-U upgrade for just the Assault Cruiser Refit.
Then they reach the point where they can buy that Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit. So they drop out another 500 ZEN (or otherwise purchase the FSM). Do they have a Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser Refit?
Also, I wanted to clarify how fleet ships will be upgraded in regards to account unlocks. I can definitely understand how this might be confusing. Allow me to explain.
Let's say you purchase the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can claim this ship on any of your federation characters. Now, let's say you want to get the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. Since you already own the non-fleet variant, this will cost 1 Fleet Module (500 Zen). Now you have both the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit and the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can then choose to upgrade either or both of these ships to T5-U by paying a Zen cost. For the sake of this example, let's say you upgrade both.
...so if they want the Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser Refit, they're going to need to buy another T5-U upgrade for another X ZEN.
So to take that Assault Cruiser to a Fleet T-5U Assault Cruiser Refit could cost 3000 + (2 * X) ZEN to do so...
That's insane, imho. I've got two ships that do not have a Fleet Variant...they're just standard T5. So do I buy a T5-U...then turn around and buy another T5-U after buying the Fleet upgrade if they do a Fleet upgrade? Why isn't there just a T5-U upgrade that upgrades both Standard T5 and Fleet T5 rather than potentially having to buy both?
If somebody says X, when the devs have explicitly said Y, correcting the person that said X is not a derailment.
How much time have you seen me arguing with folks about the costs and their opinions there?
How much time have you seen me linking to the blogs, linking to dev statements, etc?
Hell, I've made my own complaints in this thread about the Event ships being free.
I've got my own concerns about the multiple costs involved depending on the player and trying to get to T5-U.
Consider the following, eh? Going with that Assault Cruiser mentioned earlier and the upgrade path I laid out. I think it's kind of a screwy one, personally.
Assault Cruiser
So the person drops out 2500 ZEN for the Assault Cruiser Refit.
They're not in a position to pick up a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit for a period of time, but they want to go T5-U. So they shell out X ZEN for the T5-U upgrade for just the Assault Cruiser Refit.
Then they reach the point where they can buy that Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit. So they drop out another 500 ZEN (or otherwise purchase the FSM). Do they have a Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser Refit?
Not according to what they've said...
...so if they want the Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser Refit, they're going to need to buy another T5-U upgrade for another X ZEN.
So to take that Assault Cruiser to a Fleet T-5U Assault Cruiser Refit could cost 3000 + (2 * X) ZEN to do so...
That's insane, imho. I've got two ships that do not have a Fleet Variant...they're just standard T5. So do I buy a T5-U...then turn around and buy another T5-U after buying the Fleet upgrade if they do a Fleet upgrade? Why isn't there just a T5-U upgrade that upgrades both Standard T5 and Fleet T5 rather than potentially having to buy both?
I agree with you. I just don't see how the logic of the upgrades is different post purchase of both cstore and fleet.
Plus the 5th passive could provide +20% hit-points or something, not part of the base but there if you want it.
There is no 5th passive. There are 4 passives and a Starship Trait at T5 that's unlocked. It's unlocked. You can use that Starship Trait on other ships. There are also other ways to get Starship Traits outside of T6 ships.
Also Gorngonzolla's subsequent statement was comparing T5 with two upgrades (T5.5-U) to base T6 with no upgrades, and did not say anything about T6 after some future upgrade. I choose not to live in disbelief that future upgrades will not come (ie, Fleet).
Obviously somewhere down the road there will be more updates and more upgrades...at some point there will be T7, T8, T9 if the game keeps going.
Hell, haven't even needed T6 for what some folks are complaining about. The newer C-Store ships, Lock Box/Lobi ships are all better than the older ships. It's been happening without T6...it's going to continue happening. Two years from now, there might very well be Fleet T6 ships. So it's not worth $5 to fly an upgrade ship for two years?
Why would there NOT be fleet T6 and T6 lobi/lockbox ships coming? Seems natural that they will come.
If there are only 7-10 Standard T6 ships while trying to maintain the viability of T5 purchases for T5-U upgrades, there is going to be a period of time where they will want to build up enough Standard T6 ships and to have had the playerbase make that shift over to the T6 ships before they go through and cut off the revenue from the T5/T5-U ships, no?
So is it natural that it will happen? No doubt somewhere down the road it will happen...but it would have be a financially secure situation for them even to consider doing that...otherwise they'd be running out into traffic with blindfolds on after a night of heavy drinking.
Regardless, this new expansion will not be 100% free for the players. This, as I've said before, goes against the F2P model.
As far as ships go, the invalidation of the F2P model that I'm seeing is this:
1. There are no announced "basic" grade T6s that complement the T5-L40 versions.
2. The currently announced "path" to being "T6 Competitive" is to gather up one of the 4 "Free" event ships from the summer or winter event, or maybe have the Grindaversary ship - of which any one of the 5 gets a free path to T5U-11 level, cause they're "fleet grade" T5.5s to begin with...
The F2P model calls for the inclusion of the "bare minimum" gear with which to tackle the anticipated content, and to sell better gear in the premium shop.
BTW, all that Mk XII purple stuff you have would, if the patterns hold, be the equivalent of Mk XIV greens - which is still better than the Mk XIV whites the game would "assign" you as "basic" loot...
Steady, consistent dribbles of income from players who need to keep up with the Joneses... :P Heart of F2P if you ask me...
And remember, STO has that lovely Dilithium -> Zen exchange, which means that even the most dedicated grinder could, within about a month or so, grind up enough Dil to buy the zen to upgrade one ship, especially if it's only 500 zen or 1000 zen for the upgrade - unless the market extortionists push the rates up over 320 per zen - at 320 it takes 4 days of refining to get 100 zen, so 500 zen is 20 days of refining... Rather have a fixed cash target and let the grinders play the market / extortionists, than have a fixed grind-for target and let the cash spenders play the market...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It's in the freaking second paragraph that I quoted above. Did you just read the paragraph you quoted and not the next one?
"This feature allows Tier 6 starships to be available at level 50 without making them have more hit points than Tier 5 ships do at that level."
"feature allows" is not a declaration of anything except what a feature allows. Are you under hypnosis? easily prone to suggestion? The fact they are saying huge buff to base stats is the only explicit declaration they have given, countered by gorngonzilla's "generally speaking" statement. I do not trust cryptic for anything anymore, and when I see weasel wording I believe that.
There is no 5th passive. There are 4 passives and a Starship Trait at T5 that's unlocked. It's unlocked. You can use that Starship Trait on other ships. There are also other ways to get Starship Traits outside of T6 ships.
Okay, one of the 4 passives :rolleyes: maybe the ship unlock that may or may not be available via other mechanisms
I choose not to believe they are going to let T6 set there on par with T5 for long.
If there are only 7-10 Standard T6 ships while trying to maintain the viability of T5 purchases for T5-U upgrades, there is going to be a period of time where they will want to build up enough Standard T6 ships and to have had the playerbase make that shift over to the T6 ships before they go through and cut off the revenue from the T5/T5-U ships, no?
So is it natural that it will happen? No doubt somewhere down the road it will happen...but it would have be a financially secure situation for them even to consider doing that...otherwise they'd be running out into traffic with blindfolds on after a night of heavy drinking.
Cryptic isn't the best with Public Relations, so that running with blindfolds may happen.
Still, you are right where you say they'll milk the upgrade before putting in T6 fleet ships.
'No doubt somewhere down the road it will happen" .
That is all I said. It will happen in a few months, maybe half a year? I did not mean it would happen right at the Expansion's start.
Cryptic has few graphics artist.
Taco, I know you are very talented, as someone who tried (and failed ) modelling I can appreciate that, but after the expansion have rolled out, it will take time for the artists to make new skins/models for fleet ships.
Again, I'm not trying to bash Cryptic's modelling division.
It is one part of the dev team that I think really does well, with engine limits and all.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
"This feature allows Tier 6 starships to be available at level 50 without making them have more hit points than Tier 5 ships do at that level."
"feature allows" is not a declaration of anything except...
...except what it says. T6 ships will have the same health as T5 ships at level 50. Which is what I said...which you are saying they did not say while quoting them saying it. /facepalm
If you prefer a BOFF seating to the ship, then you can find another ship with said seating.
There are fleets that offer ship purchases to members of other fleets.
I tried that to get a Fleet Negh'var.
And with a fleet that won't charge me to take it.
I had the Fleet Credits and the modules necessary.
All it achieved was to spend 20$ on Fleet Modules I couldn't use!
Which were promptly sent to exchange so I at least got some reimbursement out of them.
The conclusion of this exercise was that it's impossible to get Fleet ships from other starbases.
And I don't want another ship, I want my Sovereign class, as this is one of my favorite ship models.
That is what is annoying me, I feel I'm being penalized for choosing a free ship to be my favorite.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The conclusion of this exercise was that it's impossible to get Fleet ships from other starbases.
Plenty of folks have no issue buying ships from other fleets, if you had a bad experience with a fleet - could have been a mistake or perhaps it would have been a case of trying with another fleet.
And I don't want another ship, I want my Sovereign class, as this is one of my favorite ship models.
If it is just the model you are interested in (not the Lt/En Tac, Cmdr/LCdr Eng, Lt Sci vs. LCdr/En Tac, Cmdr/Lt Eng, Lt Uni)...then there are options there.
That is what is annoying me, I feel I'm being penalized for choosing a free ship to be my favorite.
See, I've just always had an issue with that thought process.
"I'm being penalized for not doing something..."
vs.
"I'm being rewarded for doing something..."
If the base is one thing, then you are not being penalized for it...but by going beyond the base, then you would be rewarded for doing so.
It comes down to expectations and feelings of entitlement...my expectations at the base level do not include entitling me to anything but that - if I want more, then I go beyond that. If I choose not to do that, I'm not being penalized...I'm just not being rewarded because I didn't go beyond it.
Cryptic has said "and most queues"...leaving some unannounced/unexplained/lack of clarification as to what the other side of that most queues means...because the current content, the new content, patrols, etc, etc, etc..."and most queues" will not require anything more than what you've got already.
So saying that two months from now he will no longer be viable...is potentially only partially correct; because we do not know what the other side of that "and most queues" will be. Will there be some new level of difficulty for the queues that will require a T5-U/T6 ship? That's the only way it could be "and most queues"...because if it were a case of just Elite requiring a T5-U/T6 ship, then they could not say "and most queues"...though they could, technically - and be mistaken - need to revise it, etc, etc, etc. But until they've said it...it's just speculation to think you have to do anything in regard to the T5-U/T6 ships at all.
I said nothing at all about queues, are you sure you're responding to the right post?
I tried that to get a Fleet Negh'var.
And with a fleet that won't charge me to take it.
I had the Fleet Credits and the modules necessary.
All it achieved was to spend 20$ on Fleet Modules I couldn't use!
Which were promptly sent to exchange so I at least got some reimbursement out of them.
The conclusion of this exercise was that it's impossible to get Fleet ships from other starbases.
And I don't want another ship, I want my Sovereign class, as this is one of my favorite ship models.
That is what is annoying me, I feel I'm being penalized for choosing a free ship to be my favorite.
Did you make sure you joined the fleet before you made your purchase? Or made sure the fleet met the necessary requirements for the ship? Or made sure the fleet gave you fleet rank permission to purchase from fleet stores? It was not explained earlier that you would have to join that fleet to obtain the ship so I assume that is the issue you came across.
Here are the ships I have in play and what I'm looking at...
Fleet T'varo: deleting the toon. I could easily go with the FT5-U, but when it comes to looking at potentially buying a variety of T6 ships for the Starship Traits (even though they've said there will be other traits from other sources), I can't personally justify buying a bunch of Rom T6 ships for just two toons.
Kar'Fi: not going to upgrade until after I've completed the T3 Spire to do the single T5-U upgrade. Not going to pay for two T5-U upgrades.
Varanus: not going to upgrade until after I've completed the T3 Shipyard to do the single T5-U upgrade. Not going to pay for two T5-U upgrades.
Mogh: not going to upgrade. Even a T4 Shipyard is probably well beyond my ability to see completed before they drop out T7 ships...meh. I could buy from another fleet, but that's not really my thing. I'm not going to pay for T5-U twice.
Marauder: not going to upgrade to T5-U. Going to wait to see if a Fleet Marauder is made available and at what Tier the unlock is. Depending on that, I may consider the FT5-U upgrade. I'm not going to pay for T5-U twice.
Haakona: deleting the toon. The Fleet Ha'apax is a T5 Shipyard unlock and just isn't going to happen. Also facing the issues mentioned in the T'varo section.
B'rel: not going to upgrade to T5-U. It's a T5 Shipyard unlock and just isn't going to happen. I'm not going to pay for T5-U twice.
Guramba: not going to upgrade to T5-U. Going to wait to see if a Fleet Guramba is made available and at what Tier the unlock is. Depending on that, I may consider the FT5-U upgrade. Not going to pay for two T5-U upgrades.
Mirror Qin: well, yeah...I'm going to be buying the T6 Raptor. I've been asking for a ZEN Raptor forever now...so this one is pretty straight forward.
So, since the only Fleet version ship I have is on a toon I'm planning on deleting; there's not much as far any thoughts of upgrades in my near future as long as I would be facing having to buy T5-U twice. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm fine with having to buy the T5-U upgrade. I'm fine with having to buy the Fleet upgrade. I'm not fine with looking at buying the T5-U upgrade, then buying the Fleet upgrade, only to have to buy the T5-U upgrade again. That's a no sale from my perspective.
Course, that doesn't mean that I'm not going to look into T6 ships. I already mentioned the T6 Raptor. I'll also see what other ships are made available for the KDF.
If they change the stance on buying the T5-U twice, then outside of the Roms I plan on deleting anyway...I'd upgrade all of my other ships without a second thought.
Viability beyond "show up and have the other people carry you through it" that is.
Viability oft comes down to the player more than it does the ship. There are folks that can pull 20k+ in a Star Cruiser when there are far more folks that can't pull 10k in a Scimitar.
They're going to cut off the sales of the T5 ships for folks to get T5-U upgrades and kill their revenue?
Yes by dead-ending T5 into half-upgrade. They hope people are going to buy T5 upgrades anyway, a lot of people will, a lot of people see the obvious play here and are deferring anything until T6. I'm looking and thinking, wow I can give them $100-200 to upgrade my ships into half-T6 or I can do nothing? I choose nothing. Revert to spectator, go do something else for a while.
I mean, c'mon...it's like you're suggesting they're not interested in making money.
Yeah they are trying to push people into upgrading *AND* buy T6 later *AND* buy T6 upgrades after that. They have a history that tells us this. Why would anybody willingly go along with it? Just because they want it doesnt mean players are so stupid they are just YAY TAKE MAH MONEY especially the old players with deep rosters. I got a bunch of ships that are now only good for single-player content, and this whole thing has soured me so much lol, and I'm not anywhere close to the worst on it
Cryptic needs to make money...obsoleting 134 ships is going to take some time.
Yes by dead-ending T5 into half-upgrade. They hope people are going to buy T5 upgrades anyway, a lot of people will, a lot of people see the obvious play here and are deferring anything until T6. I'm looking and thinking, wow I can give them $100-200 to upgrade my ships into half-T6 or I can do nothing? I choose nothing. Revert to spectator, go do something else for a while.
Yeah they are trying to push people into upgrading *AND* buy T6 later *AND* buy T6 upgrades after that. They have a history that tells us this. Why would anybody willingly go along with it? Just because they want it doesnt mean players are so stupid they are just YAY TAKE MAH MONEY especially the old players with deep rosters. I got a bunch of ships that are now only good for single-player content, and this whole thing has soured me so much lol, and I'm not anywhere close to the worst on it
Not a single thing they've shown us nor told us says that...
You missed the part about how only "most Queues" will not "strictly require" a T5-U or T6 Ship?
"Not strictly require" is nothing more than semantics for "You can queue, but proper T6 Ships will have to drag you through like having a Miranda show up in Elite Infected"...
Comments
I wasn't aware of that nor am I surprised.
A hybrid Boff does sound like a very cool thing to do. If nothing else, its flexibility will really change the metagame in PVP.
Good thing i don't pvp, he he he.
I feel like if they kept these hybrid boffs to T6, and given T5 Upgrades the rest of the bonuses, T6 would still sell very well.
Although you are right... pointing out where someone's opinion or ideas are wrong derails the topic as well. Like you said "All those discussions tend to do is distract from where we could be hammering Cryptic with our constructive negative feedback about what they're doing", telling someone off or telling them their wrong falls under the same boat. So it is defending Cryptic when you decide to go against the negative feedback and derail the potential progress it could make. IF the Devs even listen to us.
Cryptic has said "and most queues"...leaving some unannounced/unexplained/lack of clarification as to what the other side of that most queues means...because the current content, the new content, patrols, etc, etc, etc..."and most queues" will not require anything more than what you've got already.
So saying that two months from now he will no longer be viable...is potentially only partially correct; because we do not know what the other side of that "and most queues" will be. Will there be some new level of difficulty for the queues that will require a T5-U/T6 ship? That's the only way it could be "and most queues"...because if it were a case of just Elite requiring a T5-U/T6 ship, then they could not say "and most queues"...though they could, technically - and be mistaken - need to revise it, etc, etc, etc. But until they've said it...it's just speculation to think you have to do anything in regard to the T5-U/T6 ships at all.
Regardless, this new expansion will not be 100% free for the players. This, as I've said before, goes against the F2P model.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7001833
Plus the 5th passive could provide +20% hit-points or something, not part of the base but there if you want it
Also Gorngonzolla's subsequent statement was comparing T5 with two upgrades (T5.5-U) to base T6 with no upgrades, and did not say anything about T6 after some future upgrade. I choose not to live in disbelief that future upgrades will not come (ie, Fleet).
Why would there NOT be fleet T6 and T6 lobi/lockbox ships coming? Seems natural that they will come.
If somebody says X, when the devs have explicitly said Y, correcting the person that said X is not a derailment.
How much time have you seen me arguing with folks about the costs and their opinions there?
How much time have you seen me linking to the blogs, linking to dev statements, etc?
Hell, I've made my own complaints in this thread about the Event ships being free.
I've got my own concerns about the multiple costs involved depending on the player and trying to get to T5-U.
Consider the following, eh? Going with that Assault Cruiser mentioned earlier and the upgrade path I laid out. I think it's kind of a screwy one, personally.
Assault Cruiser
So the person drops out 2500 ZEN for the Assault Cruiser Refit.
They're not in a position to pick up a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit for a period of time, but they want to go T5-U. So they shell out X ZEN for the T5-U upgrade for just the Assault Cruiser Refit.
Then they reach the point where they can buy that Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit. So they drop out another 500 ZEN (or otherwise purchase the FSM). Do they have a Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser Refit?
Not according to what they've said...
...so if they want the Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser Refit, they're going to need to buy another T5-U upgrade for another X ZEN.
So to take that Assault Cruiser to a Fleet T-5U Assault Cruiser Refit could cost 3000 + (2 * X) ZEN to do so...
That's insane, imho. I've got two ships that do not have a Fleet Variant...they're just standard T5. So do I buy a T5-U...then turn around and buy another T5-U after buying the Fleet upgrade if they do a Fleet upgrade? Why isn't there just a T5-U upgrade that upgrades both Standard T5 and Fleet T5 rather than potentially having to buy both?
I agree with you. I just don't see how the logic of the upgrades is different post purchase of both cstore and fleet.
It's in the freaking second paragraph that I quoted above. Did you just read the paragraph you quoted and not the next one?
There is no 5th passive. There are 4 passives and a Starship Trait at T5 that's unlocked. It's unlocked. You can use that Starship Trait on other ships. There are also other ways to get Starship Traits outside of T6 ships.
Obviously somewhere down the road there will be more updates and more upgrades...at some point there will be T7, T8, T9 if the game keeps going.
Hell, haven't even needed T6 for what some folks are complaining about. The newer C-Store ships, Lock Box/Lobi ships are all better than the older ships. It's been happening without T6...it's going to continue happening. Two years from now, there might very well be Fleet T6 ships. So it's not worth $5 to fly an upgrade ship for two years?
Um...there is no single F2P model. There are F2P games that actually sell not only items but they also sell the content.
If there are only 7-10 Standard T6 ships while trying to maintain the viability of T5 purchases for T5-U upgrades, there is going to be a period of time where they will want to build up enough Standard T6 ships and to have had the playerbase make that shift over to the T6 ships before they go through and cut off the revenue from the T5/T5-U ships, no?
So is it natural that it will happen? No doubt somewhere down the road it will happen...but it would have be a financially secure situation for them even to consider doing that...otherwise they'd be running out into traffic with blindfolds on after a night of heavy drinking.
As far as ships go, the invalidation of the F2P model that I'm seeing is this:
1. There are no announced "basic" grade T6s that complement the T5-L40 versions.
2. The currently announced "path" to being "T6 Competitive" is to gather up one of the 4 "Free" event ships from the summer or winter event, or maybe have the Grindaversary ship - of which any one of the 5 gets a free path to T5U-11 level, cause they're "fleet grade" T5.5s to begin with...
The F2P model calls for the inclusion of the "bare minimum" gear with which to tackle the anticipated content, and to sell better gear in the premium shop.
BTW, all that Mk XII purple stuff you have would, if the patterns hold, be the equivalent of Mk XIV greens - which is still better than the Mk XIV whites the game would "assign" you as "basic" loot...
Steady, consistent dribbles of income from players who need to keep up with the Joneses... :P Heart of F2P if you ask me...
And remember, STO has that lovely Dilithium -> Zen exchange, which means that even the most dedicated grinder could, within about a month or so, grind up enough Dil to buy the zen to upgrade one ship, especially if it's only 500 zen or 1000 zen for the upgrade - unless the market extortionists push the rates up over 320 per zen - at 320 it takes 4 days of refining to get 100 zen, so 500 zen is 20 days of refining... Rather have a fixed cash target and let the grinders play the market / extortionists, than have a fixed grind-for target and let the cash spenders play the market...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
"feature allows" is not a declaration of anything except what a feature allows. Are you under hypnosis? easily prone to suggestion? The fact they are saying huge buff to base stats is the only explicit declaration they have given, countered by gorngonzilla's "generally speaking" statement. I do not trust cryptic for anything anymore, and when I see weasel wording I believe that.
Okay, one of the 4 passives :rolleyes: maybe the ship unlock that may or may not be available via other mechanisms
I choose not to believe they are going to let T6 set there on par with T5 for long.
Cryptic isn't the best with Public Relations, so that running with blindfolds may happen.
Still, you are right where you say they'll milk the upgrade before putting in T6 fleet ships.
'No doubt somewhere down the road it will happen" .
That is all I said. It will happen in a few months, maybe half a year? I did not mean it would happen right at the Expansion's start.
Cryptic has few graphics artist.
Taco, I know you are very talented, as someone who tried (and failed ) modelling I can appreciate that, but after the expansion have rolled out, it will take time for the artists to make new skins/models for fleet ships.
Again, I'm not trying to bash Cryptic's modelling division.
It is one part of the dev team that I think really does well, with engine limits and all.
...except what it says. T6 ships will have the same health as T5 ships at level 50. Which is what I said...which you are saying they did not say while quoting them saying it. /facepalm
There are going to be 7-10 T6 ships.
There are going to be 134 T5-U ships.
They're going to cut off the sales of the T5 ships for folks to get T5-U upgrades and kill their revenue?
I mean, c'mon...it's like you're suggesting they're not interested in making money.
tpalena gets it (and we're normally arguing with each other, lol)...
Cryptic needs to make money...obsoleting 134 ships is going to take some time.
I tried that to get a Fleet Negh'var.
And with a fleet that won't charge me to take it.
I had the Fleet Credits and the modules necessary.
All it achieved was to spend 20$ on Fleet Modules I couldn't use!
Which were promptly sent to exchange so I at least got some reimbursement out of them.
The conclusion of this exercise was that it's impossible to get Fleet ships from other starbases.
And I don't want another ship, I want my Sovereign class, as this is one of my favorite ship models.
That is what is annoying me, I feel I'm being penalized for choosing a free ship to be my favorite.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Plenty of folks have no issue buying ships from other fleets, if you had a bad experience with a fleet - could have been a mistake or perhaps it would have been a case of trying with another fleet.
If it is just the model you are interested in (not the Lt/En Tac, Cmdr/LCdr Eng, Lt Sci vs. LCdr/En Tac, Cmdr/Lt Eng, Lt Uni)...then there are options there.
See, I've just always had an issue with that thought process.
"I'm being penalized for not doing something..."
vs.
"I'm being rewarded for doing something..."
If the base is one thing, then you are not being penalized for it...but by going beyond the base, then you would be rewarded for doing so.
It comes down to expectations and feelings of entitlement...my expectations at the base level do not include entitling me to anything but that - if I want more, then I go beyond that. If I choose not to do that, I'm not being penalized...I'm just not being rewarded because I didn't go beyond it.
I said nothing at all about queues, are you sure you're responding to the right post?
It was the first line of your post...
"Currently he can have the ship skin AND seating he likes AND still be viable in group content."
Group content...the majority of group content is accessed by the queue system - even creating privates are still a part of the queues window.
I'm talking about viability, not queuability.
Viability beyond "show up and have the other people carry you through it" that is.
Did you make sure you joined the fleet before you made your purchase? Or made sure the fleet met the necessary requirements for the ship? Or made sure the fleet gave you fleet rank permission to purchase from fleet stores? It was not explained earlier that you would have to join that fleet to obtain the ship so I assume that is the issue you came across.
Fleet T'varo: deleting the toon. I could easily go with the FT5-U, but when it comes to looking at potentially buying a variety of T6 ships for the Starship Traits (even though they've said there will be other traits from other sources), I can't personally justify buying a bunch of Rom T6 ships for just two toons.
Kar'Fi: not going to upgrade until after I've completed the T3 Spire to do the single T5-U upgrade. Not going to pay for two T5-U upgrades.
Varanus: not going to upgrade until after I've completed the T3 Shipyard to do the single T5-U upgrade. Not going to pay for two T5-U upgrades.
Mogh: not going to upgrade. Even a T4 Shipyard is probably well beyond my ability to see completed before they drop out T7 ships...meh. I could buy from another fleet, but that's not really my thing. I'm not going to pay for T5-U twice.
Marauder: not going to upgrade to T5-U. Going to wait to see if a Fleet Marauder is made available and at what Tier the unlock is. Depending on that, I may consider the FT5-U upgrade. I'm not going to pay for T5-U twice.
Haakona: deleting the toon. The Fleet Ha'apax is a T5 Shipyard unlock and just isn't going to happen. Also facing the issues mentioned in the T'varo section.
B'rel: not going to upgrade to T5-U. It's a T5 Shipyard unlock and just isn't going to happen. I'm not going to pay for T5-U twice.
Guramba: not going to upgrade to T5-U. Going to wait to see if a Fleet Guramba is made available and at what Tier the unlock is. Depending on that, I may consider the FT5-U upgrade. Not going to pay for two T5-U upgrades.
Mirror Qin: well, yeah...I'm going to be buying the T6 Raptor. I've been asking for a ZEN Raptor forever now...so this one is pretty straight forward.
So, since the only Fleet version ship I have is on a toon I'm planning on deleting; there's not much as far any thoughts of upgrades in my near future as long as I would be facing having to buy T5-U twice. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm fine with having to buy the T5-U upgrade. I'm fine with having to buy the Fleet upgrade. I'm not fine with looking at buying the T5-U upgrade, then buying the Fleet upgrade, only to have to buy the T5-U upgrade again. That's a no sale from my perspective.
Course, that doesn't mean that I'm not going to look into T6 ships. I already mentioned the T6 Raptor. I'll also see what other ships are made available for the KDF.
If they change the stance on buying the T5-U twice, then outside of the Roms I plan on deleting anyway...I'd upgrade all of my other ships without a second thought.
Viability oft comes down to the player more than it does the ship. There are folks that can pull 20k+ in a Star Cruiser when there are far more folks that can't pull 10k in a Scimitar.
Yeah they are trying to push people into upgrading *AND* buy T6 later *AND* buy T6 upgrades after that. They have a history that tells us this. Why would anybody willingly go along with it? Just because they want it doesnt mean players are so stupid they are just YAY TAKE MAH MONEY especially the old players with deep rosters. I got a bunch of ships that are now only good for single-player content, and this whole thing has soured me so much lol, and I'm not anywhere close to the worst on it
dude ... they already done it
Not a single thing they've shown us nor told us says that...
I completely agree with you.
You missed the part about how only "most Queues" will not "strictly require" a T5-U or T6 Ship?
"Not strictly require" is nothing more than semantics for "You can queue, but proper T6 Ships will have to drag you through like having a Miranda show up in Elite Infected"...