Fact: No other tier ship has EVER been allowed an upgrade to it's stats
Fact: Whenever a new tier has been introduced, it has been as a "buy new ship or do without"
Fact: All current T5/Fleet ships will be more than capable of completing ALL content in the DR expansion
Fact: They are allowing us to upgrade our current ships to a higher stat level, but since the upgrade won't be required, it's optional.
Fact: No one is forcing anyone to spend any money (game or otherwise) to buy anything
T6 only exists for Cryptic to shake the money tree. People who spent a lot of money building up T5 ships do not have to enjoy their prior purchases being made irrelevant on a whim.
ALSO, cryptic only says the storyline content (the single-player episodes) will not require T6, but they go out of the way not to say that about multiplayer maps. T6 or at least high-level T5-FU will be required for that.
DEVS, PLEASE READ THIS!
I've been thinking and the trade in route sounds good. Let me explain. Ditch the current tier 6 ships. Make T6 versions of ALL ships (lockbox/lobi/event they should still be upgraded for free). Then allow players to turn in with their cstore or fleet ship for the full Zen price. We then can use that Zen for the T6 ships. This puts us all equal and we get to fly our favorite ships still. For those who, circumstantially, never had the opportunity to get a module discount on your ship, you will have to pay the difference to get the T6 version. This is fair because you have invested less. Don't get me wrong, its Cryptic/PWE's fault you would be in this situation. As for those who have not invested (new players mostly) you will have to buy everything outright. If you didn't pay for what you have but ground for it, think of this as a bonus for grinding so much . This solution will appease veterans or anyone who has already invested money or ground excessively and will still allow Cryptic/PWE to make a profit. I hope this is at least more satisfactory than the current plan
Note: If T6 ship abilities/traits stay consistent, MU ships wont need an upgrade seeing how T6 could potentially be better suited. But I still want mirror skins with this plan.
Therefore the precedent you are trying to point to does not exist, this is the first time Cryptic has added a new true tier to ships, so there really is no history to point to. Originally the game capped at 45. The only previous time the cap has been increased they kept Tier 5 at the top, slowly adding to that originally somewhat slim selection over several years since they first added the C-Store, which PWE renamed to the Zen Store.
Fact: All current T5/Fleet ships will be more than capable of completing ALL content in the DR expansion
That can not be proven with the limited data Cryptic/PWE has chosen to share and therefore can not be declared a fact. Based on the trickle of information since PWE bought Cryptic will not be able to be proved before DR goes live. However, we have been told that Tier 5 will NOT be able to do some content, though they have not told us what in endgame they will lock Tier 5 ships from. Just to clarify this is standard Tier 5 which will be locked out, only T5U-10/T5U-11/T6 will be allowed for certain queues.
Fact: They are allowing us to upgrade our current ships to a higher stat level, but since the upgrade won't be required, it's optional.
The upgrade IS required if you choose to play ALL end game content. Either that or pay for a T6. Existing, un-upgraded Tier 5 will be locked from specific end game queues.
Fact: No one is forcing anyone to spend any money (game or otherwise) to buy anything
Maybe not, however your options will be severely limited otherwise if you don't upgrade. Only a handful of free ships will be receiving an upgrade, and only if you acquired them during their limited availability.
T6 only exists for Cryptic to shake the money tree. People who spent a lot of money building up T5 ships do not have to enjoy their prior purchases being made irrelevant on a whim.
ALSO, cryptic only says the storyline content (the single-player episodes) will not require T6, but they go out of the way not to say that about multiplayer maps. T6 or at least high-level T5-FU will be required for that.
No. T6 is the next level of ship, with new abilities. If you're into story missions, nothing much will change. If you're into PvP, then again, nothing has changed, you had to pay for the top tier of ships/gear in order to "compete", well, you have to do the same now.
You are NOT entitled to have the game stagnate and die because you don't want to pay for the next tier up in ships. If the current top of the line remained the top of the line forever and no new powers/ships/abilities were ever introduced, then that's exactly what would happen. What some claim has already happened. The game stagnating and eventually dying out.
Attitudes such as displayed in this thread and many others is the reason a lot of people have the opinions and attitudes they do about gamers in general and PvP'ers in particular.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
No. T6 is the next level of ship, with new abilities. If you're into story missions, nothing much will change. If you're into PvP, then again, nothing has changed, you had to pay for the top tier of ships/gear in order to "compete", well, you have to do the same now.
You are NOT entitled to have the game stagnate and die because you don't want to pay for the next tier up in ships. If the current top of the line remained the top of the line forever and no new powers/ships/abilities were ever introduced, then that's exactly what would happen. What some claim has already happened. The game stagnating and eventually dying out.
Attitudes such as displayed in this thread and many others is the reason a lot of people have the opinions and attitudes they do about gamers in general and PvP'ers in particular.
I don't know if the Terrans would be the best avatar for you. I'd say Klingon would be better. You sure do like to exaggerate. If you think his attitude is bad, look at post #2308.
I don't know if the Terrans would be the best avatar for you. I'd say Klingon would be better. You sure do like to exaggerate. If you think his attitude is bad, look at post #2308.
There are many bad attitudes in this thread, including mine at times. There is also no shortage of exaggeration, or fud,... seems to be the preferred past time around here. Apparently only a few of us are capable of critical thinking and reading to get actual facts instead what we THINK is going on or what should be going on.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
You are NOT entitled to have the game stagnate and die because you don't want to pay for the next tier up in ships. If the current top of the line remained the top of the line forever and no new powers/ships/abilities were ever introduced, then that's exactly what would happen. What some claim has already happened. The game stagnating and eventually dying out.
Changes to content do not require obsoleting all of the stuff that players built over 4 years. Cryptic could sell full-T6 upgrades and preserve prior investments, yes? You seem to believe that Cryptic should be able to shake everybody down whenever they want and players have to shut up and take it. You're not ever going to win that argument.
No. T6 is the next level of ship, with new abilities. If you're into story missions, nothing much will change. If you're into PvP, then again, nothing has changed, you had to pay for the top tier of ships/gear in order to "compete", well, you have to do the same now.
Yeah, the problem being that they did, in fact, make that payment.
Now, in order to not have the benefit of that payment essentially invalidated, they must pay again or suffer a decrease in performance relative to their peers.
Without further clarification, we aren't even sure if forking over more money (T5U/T5FU) will even be properly equivalent in performance.
Even if it is, it still leaves you with that "spending good money after bad" feeling.
You are NOT entitled to have the game stagnate and die because you don't want to pay for the next tier up in ships. If the current top of the line remained the top of the line forever and no new powers/ships/abilities were ever introduced, then that's exactly what would happen. What some claim has already happened. The game stagnating and eventually dying out.
Attitudes such as displayed in this thread and many others is the reason a lot of people have the opinions and attitudes they do about gamers in general and PvP'ers in particular.
Right, anyone who balks at the current plan wants "to have the game stagnate and die."
Quit being so melodramatic.
Also, stay on subject. Casting aspersions and dishing out negative generalizations doesn't move the discussion forward in a meaningful way.
Totally unrelated, am I the only one that finds the "T5FU" moniker to be entirely appropriate? :9
Changes to content do not require obsoleting all of the stuff that players built over 4 years. Cryptic could sell full-T6 upgrades and preserve prior investments, yes? You seem to believe that Cryptic should be able to shake everybody down whenever they want and players have to shut up and take it. You're not ever going to win that argument.
Changes to content do not require obsoleting all of the stuff that players built over 4 years. Cryptic could sell full-T6 upgrades and preserve prior investments, yes? You seem to believe that Cryptic should be able to shake everybody down whenever they want and players have to shut up and take it. You're not ever going to win that argument.
In every other MMO ever, a new expansion means instantly obsoleting all the stuff that players built over the last however many years. Cryptic is doing something unprecedented in allowing, by way of the upgradeable ships, people to keep at least part of it.
Again, I don't understand why you would want or expect the best stuff in the game for free. What would be the point of continuing to play the game then?
I don't mind paying a fee to upgrade but why shortchange the T5 ships? Make them full T6 ships and I'm in. I've spent real money getting my ship to where I'm happy with it and now it will get shortchanged on the upgrade?
Again, I don't understand why you would want or expect the best stuff in the game for free. What would be the point of continuing to play the game then?
Changes to content do not require obsoleting all of the stuff that players built over 4 years. Cryptic could sell full-T6 upgrades and preserve prior investments, yes? You seem to believe that Cryptic should be able to shake everybody down whenever they want and players have to shut up and take it. You're not ever going to win that argument.
In every other MMO ever, a new expansion means instantly obsoleting all the stuff that players built over the last however many years. Cryptic is doing something unprecedented in allowing, by way of the upgradeable ships, people to keep at least part of it.
Again, I don't understand why you would want or expect the best stuff in the game for free. What would be the point of continuing to play the game then?
Well I see you like to ride the MMO bandwagon. Just because other MMOs do it, doesn't make it right. Justifying our spent money will do little to impact the game or Cryptic/PWE's profits. Again, we ARE NOT saying the best stuff in the game should be free. Please refer to the post #2374.
Changes to content do not require obsoleting all of the stuff that players built over 4 years. Cryptic could sell full-T6 upgrades and preserve prior investments, yes? You seem to believe that Cryptic should be able to shake everybody down whenever they want and players have to shut up and take it. You're not ever going to win that argument.
+1 this post
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
In every other MMO ever, a new expansion means instantly obsoleting all the stuff that players built over the last however many years. Cryptic is doing something unprecedented in allowing, by way of the upgradeable ships, people to keep at least part of it.
Again, I don't understand why you would want or expect the best stuff in the game for free. What would be the point of continuing to play the game then?
They are also selling the stuff we are talking about for real money (one way or the other). I never paid any real money for my gear in other MMO's.
And I personally see no harm in letting people upgrade their ships to full T6. They have been selling T5 ships for ages even though there were already lots of it. So the ability to successfully market their new ships can't be in danger.
And btw I'm not even arguing against the upgrade cost (if reasonable, not more than fleet ship costs) itself. I can live with that.
In every other MMO ever, a new expansion means instantly obsoleting all the stuff that players built over the last however many years. Cryptic is doing something unprecedented in allowing, by way of the upgradeable ships, people to keep at least part of it.
Again, I don't understand why you would want or expect the best stuff in the game for free. What would be the point of continuing to play the game then?
No, they are not actually.
In this game we each essentially have 2 classes and 2 avatars: one pair for ground, the other for space. To use your comparison what Cryptic is doing would be like if Blizzard made you choose a new class for each existing character when their upcoming WoW expansion launches.
People need to stop comparing apples to oranges, the ship itself is not gear but the equipment we slot into it is. Most people voicing their opinions are not upset about the invalidation of gear, they are upset over the invalidation of the space class and avatar.
In every other MMO ever, a new expansion means instantly obsoleting all the stuff that players built over the last however many years.
kerriknight already pointed out your mistake on "free" so I will point out another
"everybody else does it" is an excuse you use to get away with doing something, its not a positive argument for doing it. Its like saying "everybody else in prison broke the law"... not an argument.
In this game we each essentially have 2 classes and 2 avatars: one pair for ground, the other for space. To use your comparison what Cryptic is doing would be like if Blizzard made you choose a new class for each existing character when their upcoming WoW expansion launches.
People need to stop comparing apples to oranges, the ship itself is not gear but the equipment we slot into it is. Most people voicing their opinions are not upset about the invalidation of gear, they are upset over the invalidation of the space class and avatar.
Except that you can make your T5-U ship look exactly like your current T5 ship....
As Mirror ships aren't being included with any form of upgrade, shouldn't they be removed as a Lockbox reward? They are pretty useless as a reward anyway, but this makes them even more of a useless reward.
DEVS, PLEASE READ THIS!
I've been thinking and the trade in route sounds good. Let me explain. Ditch the current tier 6 ships. Make T6 versions of ALL ships (lockbox/lobi/event they should still be upgraded for free). Then allow players to turn in with their cstore or fleet ship for the full Zen price. We then can use that Zen for the T6 ships. This puts us all equal and we get to fly our favorite ships still. For those who, circumstantially, never had the opportunity to get a module discount on your ship, you will have to pay the difference to get the T6 version. This is fair because you have invested less. Don't get me wrong, its Cryptic/PWE's fault you would be in this situation. As for those who have not invested (new players mostly) you will have to buy everything outright. If you didn't pay for what you have but ground for it, think of this as a bonus for grinding so much . This solution will appease veterans or anyone who has already invested money or ground excessively and will still allow Cryptic/PWE to make a profit. I hope this is at least more satisfactory than the current plan
Note: If T6 ship abilities/traits stay consistent, MU ships wont need an upgrade seeing how T6 could potentially be better suited. But I still want mirror skins with this plan.
As Mirror ships aren't being included with any form of upgrade, shouldn't they be removed as a Lockbox reward? They are pretty useless as a reward anyway, but this makes them even more of a useless reward.
They're still a cool outfit unlock. Romulan Mirror ships have a red-brown hull color you can't get otherwise.
One issue I'm seeing, and I know my comments here are invalid for many of the players, but for the LTS players or those who have reached the 1000 Vet status, we receive a ship that will be capable of being upgraded to a T5U.
Now, if ALL the content is accessible by these T5U ships, then many of the P2P players are all set. The issue I ahve will come if they limit ANY of the content to T6 ships ONLY...
Now, I realize this doesn't help the grand majority of the player base... But most players can/will/should have access to a T5U ship in some form or other. Since the upgrades are account-wide, then once a federation ship of ANY kind is upgraded, we can use the loadouts to switch to the upgraded ships any time we want to play the limited content. We can then switch back to our fave ships immediately afterward...
All this hinges on the point that the upcoming content will all be available to Upgraded ships... Again, if the content is NOT accessible to ships except to T6, then I will be disappointed as a Paying player...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
So I just read the developer log, and let me see if I get this right.
They've charged us for the ships, now they're obsoleting them and charging us MORE to make them slightly LESS obsolete and less powerful than the new shiney stuff. lol
Wow, PwE really wants their pint of blood.
And to the previous poster that thinks this is alright because every other game out there obsoletes gear with a new expansion, please go see a doctor about your rectal cranial inversion. No other MMO charges real money for endgame equipment.
I guess I should've known better, and that's on me. Now I regret supporting them by getting the Odyssey pack a few months ago.
Changes to content do not require obsoleting all of the stuff that players built over 4 years. Cryptic could sell full-T6 upgrades and preserve prior investments, yes? You seem to believe that Cryptic should be able to shake everybody down whenever they want and players have to shut up and take it. You're not ever going to win that argument.
I have to agree with you there. And I very seldom agree with you, so this is a very good idea.
A full Tier 6 upgrade.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
In this game we each essentially have 2 classes and 2 avatars: one pair for ground, the other for space. To use your comparison what Cryptic is doing would be like if Blizzard made you choose a new class for each existing character when their upcoming WoW expansion launches.
People need to stop comparing apples to oranges, the ship itself is not gear but the equipment we slot into it is. Most people voicing their opinions are not upset about the invalidation of gear, they are upset over the invalidation of the space class and avatar.
I know you guys think this is the silver bullet argument, but you're wrong. In Vanilla WoW, I had a melee dps Shaman specced for two-handed hammer who ruled inpvp. Then an expansion came out. Ever since, melee shaman have had to dual-wield. In WotLK, I endgame tanked with a Frost DK. Then an expansion came out. Now Frost can't tank anymore. InLotRO, I spent countless hours per toon grinding out class traits. In the most recent expansion, that went out the window in favor of talent trees.
Maybe some folks are new to MMOs, but typically, when an expansion comes out, everything you've done, including things like class spec, etc., goes right out the window.
Sometimes a poster will claim that all ships can be upgraded.
That is not true.
Fleet Ships, Lobi ships and c-store ships I think are the ones you can upgrade.
Case in point, out of my four ships, only two of them can be upgraded:
Sovereign class Assault Cruiser: No.
Negh'var: No.
Scimitar: Yes (with cost).
Nicor: Yes (for free).
So, before this expansion has been even deployed, two of my characters are missing out on ship upgrades.
I'm getting a little suspicious about this now, it looks like the only ships you can upgrade are the ones you have to pay money to obtain. :cool:
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I know you guys think this is the silver bullet argument, but you're wrong. In Vanilla WoW, I had a melee dps Shaman specced for two-handed hammer who ruled inpvp. Then an expansion came out. Ever since, melee shaman have had to dual-wield. In WotLK, I endgame tanked with a Frost DK. Then an expansion came out. Now Frost can't tank anymore. InLotRO, I spent countless hours per toon grinding out class traits. In the most recent expansion, that went out the window in favor of talent trees.
Maybe some folks are new to MMOs, but typically, when an expansion comes out, everything you've done, including things like class spec, etc., goes right out the window.
That just sounds like bad design. In TOR, my Marauder has the same armor pieces she had before the expansion. There it is solved by a socketed item upgrade.
I grind out better socketed items that give the item its attributes, but I keep the looks of the armour.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Except that you can make your T5-U ship look exactly like your current T5 ship....
Yes you can, but not before paying $5-$10 on something you (or someone else if you used the Dil Exchange) have already paid $20-$25. Not to mention we are not being given numbers to prove they will still be competitive, only told so by a company who has lost the trust of it's fan base since PWE entered the picture.
When this game first went live the Cryptic team tested things thoroughly, shared information openly, and encouraged feedback by getting involved in the discussions. As players we were able to have our ideas heard openly.
Now, when was the last reply by a Cryptic employee to this thread? Not a volunteer moderator, an actually employed by Cryptic, receives their paycheck from PWE dev? Because the last time I saw any of them say a word on this was before close of business on Wednesday, even though they have been merging every anti-Tier 5 Upgrade thread into this one since then.
What people are voicing here is outrage over items cash was spent to obtain being invalidated, when it was once posted on the original (now long deleted by PWE) forums when the C-Store went live we would never need to pay additional fees to keep the ships we bought relevant. At that time the only ships planned were to be T5, T1-4 didn't enter the store equation until later.
And now here we are with a simple step they could take to both keep their promise to longtime players, people who actually BOUGHT this game for example and maintained paid subscriptions long before free to play plans were even considered, by simply making this joke of an upgrade free and charging us to make it a full T6 if we like. It's not much more work to enter them in game as each T5 ship in the C-Store has a console with a special ability,and in the case of the T5 ships the consoles are limited in what ships can equip them anyway. Right there is your space trait.
Honestly the single biggest issue causing this thread to explode is the trickle of information PWE has decided to let out about what's coming. Just enough to speculate and no true numbers.
Now, if Cryptic continues to push forward and invalidate items on the C-Store which people exchanged cash for how many people do you think will continue buying on a whim and how many will think twice based on a history of feeling betrayed by their investments in that platform? Personally I have purchased T5 ships on the C-Store since it was added, but I can also say based on this current plan I will likely never spend another penny there because all I will see is future betrayal from any potential purchase, and in this feeling I am far from alone.
I know you guys think this is the silver bullet argument, but you're wrong. In Vanilla WoW, I had a melee dps Shaman specced for two-handed hammer who ruled inpvp. Then an expansion came out. Ever since, melee shaman have had to dual-wield. In WotLK, I endgame tanked with a Frost DK. Then an expansion came out. Now Frost can't tank anymore. InLotRO, I spent countless hours per toon grinding out class traits. In the most recent expansion, that went out the window in favor of talent trees.
Maybe some folks are new to MMOs, but typically, when an expansion comes out, everything you've done, including things like class spec, etc., goes right out the window.
Now you're talking about changes to the meta as if thats the same thing, its not. Cryptic changed Gravity Well from weak hold and high damage to strong hold and weak damage, that is change to the meta, but it didnt obsolete everything you had done prior.
What they are doing now is saying that all of your existing gear, every single ship and piece of gear on it, is going to be obsolete for some portion of the DR content (only the single-player episodes are going to be doable in base T5, per Cryptic). Then they say you can pay one way to keep the ship at half-function, or you can start over again with another ship at full-function. It would be like you had been told, hey good job getting your hammer toon to level 50 but we are going to start over and we will let you buy half an upgrade to 55 or you can make a new toon that goes to 60. Its not at all the same thing, nothing like it.
Comments
ALSO, cryptic only says the storyline content (the single-player episodes) will not require T6, but they go out of the way not to say that about multiplayer maps. T6 or at least high-level T5-FU will be required for that.
I would really like some feedback on this
That's actually not true. Tier 5 has been the top since Beta, consisting of the 6 free ship options you have at level 40. Here's the basic chart:
Tier 1 - Levels 0-9 - Starter Cruiser
Tier 2 - Levels 10-19 - Cruiser/Science Vessel/Escort
Tier 3 - Levels 20-29 - Heavy Cruiser/Research Science Vessel/Heavy Escort
Tier 4 - Levels 30-39 - Exploration Cruiser/Long Range Science Vessel/Tactical Escort
Tier 5 - Levels 40-50 - Assault Cruiser/Star Cruiser/Reconnaissance Science Vessel/Deep Space Science Vessel/Advanced Escort/Patrol Escort
Therefore the precedent you are trying to point to does not exist, this is the first time Cryptic has added a new true tier to ships, so there really is no history to point to. Originally the game capped at 45. The only previous time the cap has been increased they kept Tier 5 at the top, slowly adding to that originally somewhat slim selection over several years since they first added the C-Store, which PWE renamed to the Zen Store.
That can not be proven with the limited data Cryptic/PWE has chosen to share and therefore can not be declared a fact. Based on the trickle of information since PWE bought Cryptic will not be able to be proved before DR goes live. However, we have been told that Tier 5 will NOT be able to do some content, though they have not told us what in endgame they will lock Tier 5 ships from. Just to clarify this is standard Tier 5 which will be locked out, only T5U-10/T5U-11/T6 will be allowed for certain queues.
The upgrade IS required if you choose to play ALL end game content. Either that or pay for a T6. Existing, un-upgraded Tier 5 will be locked from specific end game queues.
Maybe not, however your options will be severely limited otherwise if you don't upgrade. Only a handful of free ships will be receiving an upgrade, and only if you acquired them during their limited availability.
No. T6 is the next level of ship, with new abilities. If you're into story missions, nothing much will change. If you're into PvP, then again, nothing has changed, you had to pay for the top tier of ships/gear in order to "compete", well, you have to do the same now.
You are NOT entitled to have the game stagnate and die because you don't want to pay for the next tier up in ships. If the current top of the line remained the top of the line forever and no new powers/ships/abilities were ever introduced, then that's exactly what would happen. What some claim has already happened. The game stagnating and eventually dying out.
Attitudes such as displayed in this thread and many others is the reason a lot of people have the opinions and attitudes they do about gamers in general and PvP'ers in particular.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I don't know if the Terrans would be the best avatar for you. I'd say Klingon would be better. You sure do like to exaggerate. If you think his attitude is bad, look at post #2308.
There are many bad attitudes in this thread, including mine at times. There is also no shortage of exaggeration, or fud,... seems to be the preferred past time around here. Apparently only a few of us are capable of critical thinking and reading to get actual facts instead what we THINK is going on or what should be going on.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Yeah, the problem being that they did, in fact, make that payment.
Now, in order to not have the benefit of that payment essentially invalidated, they must pay again or suffer a decrease in performance relative to their peers.
Without further clarification, we aren't even sure if forking over more money (T5U/T5FU) will even be properly equivalent in performance.
Even if it is, it still leaves you with that "spending good money after bad" feeling.
Right, anyone who balks at the current plan wants "to have the game stagnate and die."
Quit being so melodramatic.
Also, stay on subject. Casting aspersions and dishing out negative generalizations doesn't move the discussion forward in a meaningful way.
Totally unrelated, am I the only one that finds the "T5FU" moniker to be entirely appropriate? :9
Post #2374
In every other MMO ever, a new expansion means instantly obsoleting all the stuff that players built over the last however many years. Cryptic is doing something unprecedented in allowing, by way of the upgradeable ships, people to keep at least part of it.
Again, I don't understand why you would want or expect the best stuff in the game for free. What would be the point of continuing to play the game then?
Not free.
Also, calling something "free" when the person has actually already spent funds on it can land as very dismissive and flippant.
Well I see you like to ride the MMO bandwagon. Just because other MMOs do it, doesn't make it right. Justifying our spent money will do little to impact the game or Cryptic/PWE's profits. Again, we ARE NOT saying the best stuff in the game should be free. Please refer to the post #2374.
+1 this post
They are also selling the stuff we are talking about for real money (one way or the other). I never paid any real money for my gear in other MMO's.
And I personally see no harm in letting people upgrade their ships to full T6. They have been selling T5 ships for ages even though there were already lots of it. So the ability to successfully market their new ships can't be in danger.
And btw I'm not even arguing against the upgrade cost (if reasonable, not more than fleet ship costs) itself. I can live with that.
No, they are not actually.
In this game we each essentially have 2 classes and 2 avatars: one pair for ground, the other for space. To use your comparison what Cryptic is doing would be like if Blizzard made you choose a new class for each existing character when their upcoming WoW expansion launches.
People need to stop comparing apples to oranges, the ship itself is not gear but the equipment we slot into it is. Most people voicing their opinions are not upset about the invalidation of gear, they are upset over the invalidation of the space class and avatar.
kerriknight already pointed out your mistake on "free" so I will point out another
"everybody else does it" is an excuse you use to get away with doing something, its not a positive argument for doing it. Its like saying "everybody else in prison broke the law"... not an argument.
My character Tsin'xing
I think this could solve all of our problems.
My character Tsin'xing
Now, if ALL the content is accessible by these T5U ships, then many of the P2P players are all set. The issue I ahve will come if they limit ANY of the content to T6 ships ONLY...
Now, I realize this doesn't help the grand majority of the player base... But most players can/will/should have access to a T5U ship in some form or other. Since the upgrades are account-wide, then once a federation ship of ANY kind is upgraded, we can use the loadouts to switch to the upgraded ships any time we want to play the limited content. We can then switch back to our fave ships immediately afterward...
All this hinges on the point that the upcoming content will all be available to Upgraded ships... Again, if the content is NOT accessible to ships except to T6, then I will be disappointed as a Paying player...
CM
They've charged us for the ships, now they're obsoleting them and charging us MORE to make them slightly LESS obsolete and less powerful than the new shiney stuff. lol
Wow, PwE really wants their pint of blood.
And to the previous poster that thinks this is alright because every other game out there obsoletes gear with a new expansion, please go see a doctor about your rectal cranial inversion. No other MMO charges real money for endgame equipment.
I guess I should've known better, and that's on me. Now I regret supporting them by getting the Odyssey pack a few months ago.
I have to agree with you there. And I very seldom agree with you, so this is a very good idea.
A full Tier 6 upgrade.
I know you guys think this is the silver bullet argument, but you're wrong. In Vanilla WoW, I had a melee dps Shaman specced for two-handed hammer who ruled inpvp. Then an expansion came out. Ever since, melee shaman have had to dual-wield. In WotLK, I endgame tanked with a Frost DK. Then an expansion came out. Now Frost can't tank anymore. InLotRO, I spent countless hours per toon grinding out class traits. In the most recent expansion, that went out the window in favor of talent trees.
Maybe some folks are new to MMOs, but typically, when an expansion comes out, everything you've done, including things like class spec, etc., goes right out the window.
Sometimes a poster will claim that all ships can be upgraded.
That is not true.
Fleet Ships, Lobi ships and c-store ships I think are the ones you can upgrade.
Case in point, out of my four ships, only two of them can be upgraded:
Sovereign class Assault Cruiser: No.
Negh'var: No.
Scimitar: Yes (with cost).
Nicor: Yes (for free).
So, before this expansion has been even deployed, two of my characters are missing out on ship upgrades.
I'm getting a little suspicious about this now, it looks like the only ships you can upgrade are the ones you have to pay money to obtain. :cool:
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
That just sounds like bad design. In TOR, my Marauder has the same armor pieces she had before the expansion. There it is solved by a socketed item upgrade.
I grind out better socketed items that give the item its attributes, but I keep the looks of the armour.
Yes you can, but not before paying $5-$10 on something you (or someone else if you used the Dil Exchange) have already paid $20-$25. Not to mention we are not being given numbers to prove they will still be competitive, only told so by a company who has lost the trust of it's fan base since PWE entered the picture.
When this game first went live the Cryptic team tested things thoroughly, shared information openly, and encouraged feedback by getting involved in the discussions. As players we were able to have our ideas heard openly.
Now, when was the last reply by a Cryptic employee to this thread? Not a volunteer moderator, an actually employed by Cryptic, receives their paycheck from PWE dev? Because the last time I saw any of them say a word on this was before close of business on Wednesday, even though they have been merging every anti-Tier 5 Upgrade thread into this one since then.
What people are voicing here is outrage over items cash was spent to obtain being invalidated, when it was once posted on the original (now long deleted by PWE) forums when the C-Store went live we would never need to pay additional fees to keep the ships we bought relevant. At that time the only ships planned were to be T5, T1-4 didn't enter the store equation until later.
And now here we are with a simple step they could take to both keep their promise to longtime players, people who actually BOUGHT this game for example and maintained paid subscriptions long before free to play plans were even considered, by simply making this joke of an upgrade free and charging us to make it a full T6 if we like. It's not much more work to enter them in game as each T5 ship in the C-Store has a console with a special ability,and in the case of the T5 ships the consoles are limited in what ships can equip them anyway. Right there is your space trait.
Honestly the single biggest issue causing this thread to explode is the trickle of information PWE has decided to let out about what's coming. Just enough to speculate and no true numbers.
Now, if Cryptic continues to push forward and invalidate items on the C-Store which people exchanged cash for how many people do you think will continue buying on a whim and how many will think twice based on a history of feeling betrayed by their investments in that platform? Personally I have purchased T5 ships on the C-Store since it was added, but I can also say based on this current plan I will likely never spend another penny there because all I will see is future betrayal from any potential purchase, and in this feeling I am far from alone.
Now you're talking about changes to the meta as if thats the same thing, its not. Cryptic changed Gravity Well from weak hold and high damage to strong hold and weak damage, that is change to the meta, but it didnt obsolete everything you had done prior.
What they are doing now is saying that all of your existing gear, every single ship and piece of gear on it, is going to be obsolete for some portion of the DR content (only the single-player episodes are going to be doable in base T5, per Cryptic). Then they say you can pay one way to keep the ship at half-function, or you can start over again with another ship at full-function. It would be like you had been told, hey good job getting your hammer toon to level 50 but we are going to start over and we will let you buy half an upgrade to 55 or you can make a new toon that goes to 60. Its not at all the same thing, nothing like it.