Therefore, it doesn't matter whether or not "other MMOs" do this and "it shouldn't have to happen here". Human nature has proven that if the carrot of advancement is removed from a game, which means that the game "looses it's challenge", people will no longer regularly play it until such time as said challenge is restored.
Completely disagree with your conclusion
If gameplay is good (ie "the game is fun to play") then variety as a means of exploring different elements of the gameplay is sufficient to retain people. IE, if its fun to play a warrior, let me roll a mage, or a thief, or whatever. Moreover if gameplay is good then people try to get their friends to play so they can play together, which is the key to large successful games (COD1 was fun to play, so I got my brothers to play with me, etc). When gameplay is TRIBBLE none of this happens and devs start relying on gifts and powercreep in order to keep people just logging in. Which of these models best describes STO?
I haven't played since the last FE, and I'm only checking the site every 4 weeks and sometimes listen to new eps of Priority One while playing other games (the irony) so forgive me if I'm not up to date on this. This thread is also a bit insane to read through with 250 pages.
What is a T5-U11 ship and why would it be better than a T6? What I see from that comparison table in the dev post is that upgraded T5 ships are lacking a special BO, a mastery level and a trait. How is that even close to equivalent?
I don't mind that there will be upgrades and that they'll cost money for most ships. I really don't care. But I do care that my old ships don't seem to be the equivalent to new ships even after the upgrade. I don't want to be forced to use ugly original Cryptic ship designs. I'm sorry, but the designs of the last 10 ships or so they cranked out just weren't Star Trek. They were hideous. If the best stats will be exclusive to ugly non Star Trek ships then I'm out for good this time.
T5-U11 is an upgraded T5 10 console ship. The upgrade gives T5s more hull and shields and +1 console. T6 has less hull and shields compare to T5-U11 but, like you said, it has the hybrid boff station and a unique trait that T5s don't have.
If gameplay is good (ie "the game is fun to play") then variety as a means of exploring different elements of the gameplay is sufficient to retain people. IE, if its fun to play a warrior, let me roll a mage, or a thief, or whatever. Moreover if gameplay is good then people try to get their friends to play so they can play together, which is the key to large successful games (COD1 was fun to play, so I got my brothers to play with me, etc). When gameplay is TRIBBLE none of this happens and devs start relying on gifts and powercreep in order to keep people just logging in. Which of these models best describes STO?
Exactly. Progress in necessary. But it needs to be implemented in the right direction and in the right way. Following suit with other MMOs is not the right way but the right direction.
One of te new ships has a four-nacelle design - it looks like it could be adjusted to work with the Stargazer Class and it's line of four-nacelled ship parts...
I don't care if they are adding their own generic designs, provided they are simply new costume versions of existing ships (with new powers as well) This way I could buy the T6 ship but still have a T5 skin if I so desire.
It just seems like they want all of us to play the same missions at the same time with the same ships ans same weapons just so they can execute their internal analytics easier and do quicker forecasting. That's it. Homogenization at its' finest.
One of te new ships has a four-nacelle design - it looks like it could be adjusted to work with the Stargazer Class and it's line of four-nacelled ship parts...
I don't care if they are adding their own generic designs, provided they are simply new costume versions of existing ships (with new powers as well) This way I could buy the T6 ship but still have a T5 skin if I so desire.
It just seems like they want all of us to play the same missions at the same time with the same ships ans same weapons just so they can execute their internal analytics easier and do quicker forecasting. That's it. Homogenization at its' finest.
What's the point of having a ship with more than 2 nacelles when they won't bother to apply to vfx to the other nacelles as they have shown with the heavy cruiser, advanced escort, and galaxy X?
What's the point of having a ship with more than 2 nacelles when they won't bother to apply to vfx to the other nacelles as they have shown with the heavy cruiser, advanced escort, and galaxy X?
A fair concern, but better suited for the Art subforum, and not really the point I was trying to make.
I don't care if they are adding their own generic designs, provided they are simply new costume versions of existing ships (with new powers as well) This way I could buy the T6 ship but still have a T5 skin if I so desire.
Did they ever say this? I haven't read that anywhere. From where I am sitting they want to force their original designs on the players.
gameverseman: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I guess it'll come down to how good those BOs and traits will be. But if the traits will just be something like +2% crit chance like they say in the blog it'll always be essential to have for min-maxers. It still looks to me as if the old ships are only equivalent in Cryptic's painful attempt at spinning the narrative.
Bottom line: They want to sell new ships. Which will be Cryptic original designs. So there will be no more Star Trek Online, just Cryptic Space Game Online.
Did they ever say this? I haven't read that anywhere. From where I am sitting they want to force their original designs on the players.
gameverseman: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I guess it'll come down to how good those BOs and traits will be. But if the traits will just be something like +2% crit chance like they say in the blog it'll always be essential to have for min-maxers. It still looks to me as if the old ships are only equivalent in Cryptic's painful attempt at spinning the narrative.
Bottom line: They want to sell new ships. Which will be Cryptic original designs. So there will be no more Star Trek Online, just Cryptic Space Game Online.
Make it simple let everyone upgrade to Tier 6 for free so all your ships you have already will be a Tier 6 then if you want to charge you for changing the appearance of your ship, then provide use with a Skin Changer or Hull Changer. No matter what you can have the option to have any type of ship by just a hull update. Consoles Mod. Or called it Retrofit Hull/Skin.
Tier 6 Hulls have a different hull to "show off" their Tier 6 status.
Upgrades from the Retrofit Lab for specific hulls are applied to all hulls previously built, as well as hulls that will be built in the future, essentially upgrading the Blueprint for that hull permanently.
If they want to sell Tier 6 using their own design concept then you have the option to purchased those ships. But make sure those ships all functions are fully tested both FX and Features.
My suggestion is that we do away with the current to be T6 ships and make T6 versions of every current 10 console T5 ship and allow full Trade ins. So we get our zen back for our paid for ships and that zen can go toward, if not pay, for the T6 version. Lobi/lockbox/event ships should get the upgrade to T6 free just as proposed. Mirror skins should be available to all ships. The hybrid boff slot, trait, increased hull + shields, and +1 console slot would be included in the T6 T5s. And then there are the case exceptions. What if I didn't purchase the C-store version or there was not one available? You would have to pay the difference to upgrade, which is fair since you have invested less. But this is because of Cryptic/PWE decision to not make a c-store version. What if I ground for everything and didn't pay a cent? well think of this as a bonus for grinding your rear off . This way people will be equal, be able to fly the ships they like, and this will appeal to long time players AND Cryptic/PWE will be able to make a profit still. Of course, new players will have to pay for everything outright which is direct profit for Cryptic/PWE.
As many businesses do with franchises, the choice is either maintain the same product line with minor improvements *profits will probably will be stable as is*, or go to a new page with a new look *sales percentage climb increase*.
These days, shareholders want to see climb, not the same normal wavelength of being stable for a fore long period of time. It sucks, but that is how it is.
Did they ever say this? I haven't read that anywhere. From where I am sitting they want to force their original designs on the players.
gameverseman: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I guess it'll come down to how good those BOs and traits will be. But if the traits will just be something like +2% crit chance like they say in the blog it'll always be essential to have for min-maxers. It still looks to me as if the old ships are only equivalent in Cryptic's painful attempt at spinning the narrative.
Bottom line: They want to sell new ships. Which will be Cryptic original designs. So there will be no more Star Trek Online, just Cryptic Space Game Online.
You do realize that there are already several cryptic original designs in this game.
Federation: Ships such as the Chimera, Odyssey, Avenger (at least not in this universe as far as we know) and Solanae Dyson Science Destroyer are Cryptic designs. Did you run when these ships were introduced?
Klingon: The Mogh and any non-klingon ship in the Empire, along with the science destroyer are all Cryptic Designs again, along with the Temporal ships and the vet ship.
Romulan: Once more you see several non-canon designs (The D'deridex, Mogai, and T'varo are the only canon designs seen in the shows. The rest are made from Cryptic).
It's stupid to leave the game just because the Tier 6 ships are ugly or cryptic only designs. Please grow up.
My suggestion is that we do away with the current to be T6 ships and make T6 versions of every current 10 console T5 ship and allow full Trade ins. So we get our zen back for our paid for ships and that zen can go toward, if not pay, for the T6 version.
Your idea is flawed, maybe not from your point of view, but from a business point of view. It is essentially a refund. With your proposal, we would trade in or C-Store T5s and get our zen back, so we can purchase a T6 version with the same zen. There is no profit to be gained by Cryptic/PWE, which is what the selling of the upgrades and the T6 ships are for; to help pay for the expansion. I do not see how they would go for this.
And what dollar amount would be placed on Fleet Vessels? They require from 1 to 4 Fleet Modules (think there is one with 5, but can't remember which if any). A value of 500 zen would be have to be assigned, as there would be no way to prove that a player had a T5 refit of said ship. Remember, their records aren't exactly the best for ingame purchases. They couldn't really give more than that as there is no way to place a dollar (or whatever currency you use) amount on Fleet Credits and Dilithium (the market fluctuates too much).
It doesn't matter if you spent real world cash or converted dilithium to zen, zen still has a cash value on it.
I'm sorry, I know you were really trying to come up with a solution, but the reality is that we are going to have to pay to upgrade some of our ships. The best we could hope for is a decent price, and maybe an extra bridge officer ability slot to the upgraded T5s.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
I'd rather pay to upgrade my ship into T6... rather than the Tier 5.5 they are proposing. The lock box ships should also be updated directly into T6 ships considering we did spend real money towards it in the form of keys or did one hell of a grind to get them.
This is coming from someone who is a lifetime veteran and wondering why the vet ships [both regular and fleet versions], don't get a vet ship that is Tier 6 upgraded directly.
If they stick with the 500 Zen upgrade and it means that:
My Vesta 3 pack
Fleet Avenger
Fleet Galaxy
Fleet Galaxy Dreadnought
Fleet Intrepid
Fleet Defiant
My Oddy 3 pack
Get to be Tier 6 ships with ALL the bells and whistles that they will make about $60 off of me versus me being forced to buy 1 new Tier 6 ship at 2500 zen which is about $25.
And I'd still buy the Dauntless Class depending on what the ship can do.
It's stupid to leave the game just because the Tier 6 ships are ugly or cryptic only designs. Please grow up.
If somebody is here just for TREK and they cant fly TREK ships then the game has nothing to offer that person except as generic space sim, which frankly its not that good. Seems kind of obvious. Seems like not being able to understand that is the stupid part.
I only fly certain ships on my Fed toons because it evokes a feeling...
Like the Galaxy Class reminds me of my childhood, the Defiant reminds me of my teen years, and Voyager reminds me of my time in college.
People like me want to fly specific ships for nostalgia or because we are Trek purists.
I don't see why we can't fly our Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid Classes at a fully realized Tier 6 levels with all the bells and whistles and not be forced to pay for a half baked Tier 5.5 version. Let these be the full Tier 6 ship with all the bells and whistles.
Same goes for those who want to keep their Breen Warships, Bug Ships, Galors, Xindi-Aquatic carriers... why should they be forced off their ships because the fraking updates are Tier 5.5 and not a full Tier 6 with all the bells and whistles?
My point: if you are going to introduce Tier 6 ships, then you better allow the existing Tier 5 ships [Fleet, regular, lock box, and the Summer/Winter event] to be directly upgraded into a full version of the Tier 6 ships will all the abilities they will have and be done with it.
Your idea is flawed, maybe not from your point of view, but from a business point of view. It is essentially a refund. With your proposal, we would trade in or C-Store T5s and get our zen back, so we can purchase a T6 version with the same zen. There is no profit to be gained by Cryptic/PWE, which is what the selling of the upgrades and the T6 ships are for; to help pay for the expansion. I do not see how they would go for this.
And what dollar amount would be placed on Fleet Vessels? They require from 1 to 4 Fleet Modules (think there is one with 5, but can't remember which if any). A value of 500 zen would be have to be assigned, as there would be no way to prove that a player had a T5 refit of said ship. Remember, their records aren't exactly the best for ingame purchases. They couldn't really give more than that as there is no way to place a dollar (or whatever currency you use) amount on Fleet Credits and Dilithium (the market fluctuates too much).
It doesn't matter if you spent real world cash or converted dilithium to zen, zen still has a cash value on it.
I'm sorry, I know you were really trying to come up with a solution, but the reality is that we are going to have to pay to upgrade some of our ships. The best we could hope for is a decent price, and maybe an extra bridge officer ability slot to the upgraded T5s.
Please, this time, read the whole thing. You took only my first two statements and didn't bother with the rest. If you won't look at my idea as a whole, don't bother to look at all. They will still make a profit. And there is no dollar amount. It's zen. If it was all dollar amounts, there would be no Zen. For fleet ships (without cstore version) it would be 500 zen x number of modules with the turn in. With c-store it would be the cost of the cstore ship + 500 zen (module). If it was a fleet ship, your fleet gets the provision back and you get 20k FC back. If not at least the fleet should get the provision back. If the zen you get back can't cover the price of the T6 version, you pay money to get the right amount of zen to cover the difference. (profit) assuming the refunded zen doesn't cover the price since the price is unkown. New players won't have pre-existing anything so they have to buy it all outright. More profit. It is a refund but we don't keep the ships we turn in so it's still fair. We are, more or less reinvesting what we already paid into the new ships. This suggestion is fair and still allows for Cryptic/PWE to make a profit. True, those who ground for everything get a free ride but IMO, they've earned it. Their records are their responsibility. If they can't keep track of the purchases we choose or are, in a way, forced to make, that is their problem. If that is not good enough, they are just greedy and don't care about the players.
You do realize that there are already several cryptic original designs in this game.
Federation: Ships such as the Chimera, Odyssey, Avenger (at least not in this universe as far as we know) and Solanae Dyson Science Destroyer are Cryptic designs. Did you run when these ships were introduced?
Klingon: The Mogh and any non-klingon ship in the Empire, along with the science destroyer are all Cryptic Designs again, along with the Temporal ships and the vet ship.
Romulan: Once more you see several non-canon designs (The D'deridex, Mogai, and T'varo are the only canon designs seen in the shows. The rest are made from Cryptic).
It's stupid to leave the game just because the Tier 6 ships are ugly or cryptic only designs. Please grow up.
Please, this time, read the whole thing. You took only my first two statements and didn't bother with the rest. If you won't look at my idea as a whole, don't bother to look at all. They will still make a profit. And there is no dollar amount. It's zen. If it was all dollar amounts, there would be no Zen. For fleet ships (without cstore version) it would be 500 zen x number of modules with the turn in. With c-store it would be the cost of the cstore ship + 500 zen (module). If it was a fleet ship, your fleet gets the provision back and you get 20k FC back. If not at least the fleet should get the provision back. If the zen you get back can't cover the price of the T6 version, you pay money to get the right amount of zen to cover the difference. (profit). New players won't have pre-existing anything so they have to buy it all outright. More profit. It is a refund but we don't keep the ships we turn in so it's still fair. We are, more or less reinvesting what we already paid into the new ships. This suggestion is fair and still allows for Cryptic/PWE to make a profit. True, those who ground for everything get a free ride but IMO, they've earned it. Their records are their responsibility. If they can't keep track of the purchases we choose or are, in a way, forced to make, that is their problem. If that is not good enough, they are just greedy and don't care about the players.
I did read the whole thing and anything past the first two statements becomes irrelevant as Cryptic/PWE will not give refunds, as that is how they (or any other business) will see it. Your idea would not be bringing in more money for them in the amounts that they are hoping to see from the T5 upgrades and the T6 sales.
Zen does have a dollar value assigned to it. A player can purchase 10,000 zen for 100 U.S. dollars from PWE. It doesn't matter if a player acquires their zen through the dilithium exchange or not, the value was already placed on it by Cryptic/PWE.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
hmm, you know pretty much every game upgrades gear and requires a regrind. Just doing this in Lotro right now... BGO raise from 10 to 15 etc etc etc
I can't imagine any way this new content would be so hard it would be too challenging for our current ships. If it is - what magic powers do the T6 ships have that make it so easy again? Boff abilty "kill em all III?"
As myself and many others have demonstrated, skilled players can make do with T1 ships in content scaled to T5 ships. Why? Because the content is tailored towards people with less skill than I possess.
I do not expect content scaled to T6 ships to be more than moderately challenging to me in a T5 ship.
If somebody is here just for TREK and they cant fly TREK ships then the game has nothing to offer that person except as generic space sim, which frankly its not that good. Seems kind of obvious. Seems like not being able to understand that is the stupid part.
Excuse me, but where does it say they're not allowing you to continue to fly your own ships for when Delta Rising finally drops?
Did they say that the new story content is going to require Tier 6 ships? no.
Did they say that all PvE queues are going to require Tier 6 ships? no.
Did they say that the challenging endgame queued content is going to require Tier 6 ships? Yes, since the new challenging content is going to be harder than what we have now.
If Cryptic keeps the cost of upgrading current ships low enough, say 500 zen, people will be able to continue flying any canon ship that was made into tier 5.
I'm probably the only one here that probably still looks forward to a majority of what Delta Rising has to offer. That includes upgrading my ships, eventually getting a tier 6 ship and seeing the delta quadrant and the story content that'll come with it.
One last thing to remember is that cryptic couldn't have put the tier 6 ships in game without the approval of CBS. Since they are being added, CBS approves the design.
The unfortunate thing is that unless you want cryptic to start adding in the kitbash canon ships that were only on screen in damaged form for an episode, there's nothing left that hasn't been added to the game, so all that we can go forward with is cryptic specific designs.
Excuse me, but where does it say they're not allowing you to continue to fly your own ships for when Delta Rising finally drops?
Did they say that the new story content is going to require Tier 6 ships? no.
Did they say that all PvE queues are going to require Tier 6 ships? no.
Did they say that the challenging endgame queued content is going to require Tier 6 ships? Yes, since the new challenging content is going to be harder than what we have now.
No they haven't but that's what a lot of the whiners around keep hearing/reading. Eve though it doesn't exist.
If Cryptic keeps the cost of upgrading current ships low enough, say 500 zen, people will be able to continue flying any canon ship that was made into tier 5.
I'm probably the only one here that probably still looks forward to a majority of what Delta Rising has to offer. That includes upgrading my ships, eventually getting a tier 6 ship and seeing the delta quadrant and the story content that'll come with it.
One last thing to remember is that cryptic couldn't have put the tier 6 ships in game without the approval of CBS. Since they are being added, CBS approves the design.
The unfortunate thing is that unless you want cryptic to start adding in the kitbash canon ships that were only on screen in damaged form for an episode, there's nothing left that hasn't been added to the game, so all that we can go forward with is cryptic specific designs.
Some of the designs they've previewed, are ok based only on what's been shown so far. Others, meh, need some work. I am not in anyway against Cryptic designs, if their good ones and make some sort of "starship" sense. While some kitbash designs are pretty damn good and look well thought out, a lot of the kitbash designs I've seen on the web from fans and other sources, frankly, suck.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I did read the whole thing and anything past the first two statements becomes irrelevant as Cryptic/PWE will not give refunds, as that is how they (or any other business) will see it. Your idea would not be bringing in more money for them in the amounts that they are hoping to see from the T5 upgrades and the T6 sales.
Zen does have a dollar value assigned to it. A player can purchase 10,000 zen for 100 U.S. dollars from PWE. It doesn't matter if a player acquires their zen through the dilithium exchange or not, the value was already placed on it by Cryptic/PWE.
It DOES matter! The rest of it was for THEIR benefit. Only the first 2 were to the players benefit. If the customer (player in this case) is not happy. You lose business. That's common sense. Seems to me a good amount of the people in these 150+ pages are NOT happy. My suggestion allows them to keep business as opposed to having it tank, badly. A big issue is that the developers don't like to listen to the players if they lose ANY money. Money matters more to them than the game itself. Unlike the players who are the opposite. So the conflict is easy to spot. My suggestion was a compromise from both sides. It seems to me you agree( from the business POV) with their nonsense. You are so focused on the idea that they would be losing money that you've turned a blind eye to what it my suggestion would mean in its entirety. So here's a question, if you are not here to get your money's worth, why are you here?
No they haven't but that's what a lot of the whiners around keep hearing/reading. Eve though it doesn't exist.
Not the only one. I'm looking forward to it too.
Some of the designs they've previewed, are ok based only on what's been shown so far. Others, meh, need some work. I am not in anyway against Cryptic designs, if their good oens and make some sort of "starship" sense.
Thank you for the off-topic derogatory comment. It must have made you feel good
Not off topic, I was responding to a specific poster questions AND a common bandied about axiom around here.
People take for granted that their old ships will be suddenly useless and not capable of doing anything. This has been stated subtly and not so subtly by many. It is in fact, simply not true and has been stated not to be true by Dev's in blog posts.
However, since that fact and view doesn't support their sense of self-entitlement, many people ignore it or claim the opposite. At that point, in my view and opinion, they become whiners, not players.
Don't like it when someone calls a spade and spade? Don't be one of them. Otherwise, deal with it.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
hmm, you know pretty much every game upgrades gear and requires a regrind. Just doing this in Lotro right now... BGO raise from 10 to 15 etc etc etc
I can't imagine any way this new content would be so hard it would be too challenging for our current ships. If it is - what magic powers do the T6 ships have that make it so easy again? Boff abilty "kill em all III?"
I have been bombing the last few grinds. Only reason for me to grind in ex#2 is to replace the guns, armor, shield, boiler, etc on my battleship (and frigates). After that, I shan't grind any more until the time we have to level up to state leader.
Comments
If gameplay is good (ie "the game is fun to play") then variety as a means of exploring different elements of the gameplay is sufficient to retain people. IE, if its fun to play a warrior, let me roll a mage, or a thief, or whatever. Moreover if gameplay is good then people try to get their friends to play so they can play together, which is the key to large successful games (COD1 was fun to play, so I got my brothers to play with me, etc). When gameplay is TRIBBLE none of this happens and devs start relying on gifts and powercreep in order to keep people just logging in. Which of these models best describes STO?
T5-U11 is an upgraded T5 10 console ship. The upgrade gives T5s more hull and shields and +1 console. T6 has less hull and shields compare to T5-U11 but, like you said, it has the hybrid boff station and a unique trait that T5s don't have.
Exactly. Progress in necessary. But it needs to be implemented in the right direction and in the right way. Following suit with other MMOs is not the right way but the right direction.
I don't care if they are adding their own generic designs, provided they are simply new costume versions of existing ships (with new powers as well) This way I could buy the T6 ship but still have a T5 skin if I so desire.
It just seems like they want all of us to play the same missions at the same time with the same ships ans same weapons just so they can execute their internal analytics easier and do quicker forecasting. That's it. Homogenization at its' finest.
What's the point of having a ship with more than 2 nacelles when they won't bother to apply to vfx to the other nacelles as they have shown with the heavy cruiser, advanced escort, and galaxy X?
A fair concern, but better suited for the Art subforum, and not really the point I was trying to make.
I know, but I thought it might have been worth mentioning
Did they ever say this? I haven't read that anywhere. From where I am sitting they want to force their original designs on the players.
gameverseman: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I guess it'll come down to how good those BOs and traits will be. But if the traits will just be something like +2% crit chance like they say in the blog it'll always be essential to have for min-maxers. It still looks to me as if the old ships are only equivalent in Cryptic's painful attempt at spinning the narrative.
Bottom line: They want to sell new ships. Which will be Cryptic original designs. So there will be no more Star Trek Online, just Cryptic Space Game Online.
kthxbye
No kidding. Just read my signature.
Tier 6 Hulls have a different hull to "show off" their Tier 6 status.
Upgrades from the Retrofit Lab for specific hulls are applied to all hulls previously built, as well as hulls that will be built in the future, essentially upgrading the Blueprint for that hull permanently.
If they want to sell Tier 6 using their own design concept then you have the option to purchased those ships. But make sure those ships all functions are fully tested both FX and Features.
Time will only tell!
These days, shareholders want to see climb, not the same normal wavelength of being stable for a fore long period of time. It sucks, but that is how it is.
You do realize that there are already several cryptic original designs in this game.
Federation: Ships such as the Chimera, Odyssey, Avenger (at least not in this universe as far as we know) and Solanae Dyson Science Destroyer are Cryptic designs. Did you run when these ships were introduced?
Klingon: The Mogh and any non-klingon ship in the Empire, along with the science destroyer are all Cryptic Designs again, along with the Temporal ships and the vet ship.
Romulan: Once more you see several non-canon designs (The D'deridex, Mogai, and T'varo are the only canon designs seen in the shows. The rest are made from Cryptic).
It's stupid to leave the game just because the Tier 6 ships are ugly or cryptic only designs. Please grow up.
Your idea is flawed, maybe not from your point of view, but from a business point of view. It is essentially a refund. With your proposal, we would trade in or C-Store T5s and get our zen back, so we can purchase a T6 version with the same zen. There is no profit to be gained by Cryptic/PWE, which is what the selling of the upgrades and the T6 ships are for; to help pay for the expansion. I do not see how they would go for this.
And what dollar amount would be placed on Fleet Vessels? They require from 1 to 4 Fleet Modules (think there is one with 5, but can't remember which if any). A value of 500 zen would be have to be assigned, as there would be no way to prove that a player had a T5 refit of said ship. Remember, their records aren't exactly the best for ingame purchases. They couldn't really give more than that as there is no way to place a dollar (or whatever currency you use) amount on Fleet Credits and Dilithium (the market fluctuates too much).
It doesn't matter if you spent real world cash or converted dilithium to zen, zen still has a cash value on it.
I'm sorry, I know you were really trying to come up with a solution, but the reality is that we are going to have to pay to upgrade some of our ships. The best we could hope for is a decent price, and maybe an extra bridge officer ability slot to the upgraded T5s.
This is coming from someone who is a lifetime veteran and wondering why the vet ships [both regular and fleet versions], don't get a vet ship that is Tier 6 upgraded directly.
If they stick with the 500 Zen upgrade and it means that:
My Vesta 3 pack
Fleet Avenger
Fleet Galaxy
Fleet Galaxy Dreadnought
Fleet Intrepid
Fleet Defiant
My Oddy 3 pack
Get to be Tier 6 ships with ALL the bells and whistles that they will make about $60 off of me versus me being forced to buy 1 new Tier 6 ship at 2500 zen which is about $25.
And I'd still buy the Dauntless Class depending on what the ship can do.
Like the Galaxy Class reminds me of my childhood, the Defiant reminds me of my teen years, and Voyager reminds me of my time in college.
People like me want to fly specific ships for nostalgia or because we are Trek purists.
I don't see why we can't fly our Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid Classes at a fully realized Tier 6 levels with all the bells and whistles and not be forced to pay for a half baked Tier 5.5 version. Let these be the full Tier 6 ship with all the bells and whistles.
Same goes for those who want to keep their Breen Warships, Bug Ships, Galors, Xindi-Aquatic carriers... why should they be forced off their ships because the fraking updates are Tier 5.5 and not a full Tier 6 with all the bells and whistles?
My point: if you are going to introduce Tier 6 ships, then you better allow the existing Tier 5 ships [Fleet, regular, lock box, and the Summer/Winter event] to be directly upgraded into a full version of the Tier 6 ships will all the abilities they will have and be done with it.
I did read the whole thing and anything past the first two statements becomes irrelevant as Cryptic/PWE will not give refunds, as that is how they (or any other business) will see it. Your idea would not be bringing in more money for them in the amounts that they are hoping to see from the T5 upgrades and the T6 sales.
Zen does have a dollar value assigned to it. A player can purchase 10,000 zen for 100 U.S. dollars from PWE. It doesn't matter if a player acquires their zen through the dilithium exchange or not, the value was already placed on it by Cryptic/PWE.
I do not expect content scaled to T6 ships to be more than moderately challenging to me in a T5 ship.
My character Tsin'xing
Excuse me, but where does it say they're not allowing you to continue to fly your own ships for when Delta Rising finally drops?
Did they say that the new story content is going to require Tier 6 ships? no.
Did they say that all PvE queues are going to require Tier 6 ships? no.
Did they say that the challenging endgame queued content is going to require Tier 6 ships? Yes, since the new challenging content is going to be harder than what we have now.
If Cryptic keeps the cost of upgrading current ships low enough, say 500 zen, people will be able to continue flying any canon ship that was made into tier 5.
I'm probably the only one here that probably still looks forward to a majority of what Delta Rising has to offer. That includes upgrading my ships, eventually getting a tier 6 ship and seeing the delta quadrant and the story content that'll come with it.
One last thing to remember is that cryptic couldn't have put the tier 6 ships in game without the approval of CBS. Since they are being added, CBS approves the design.
The unfortunate thing is that unless you want cryptic to start adding in the kitbash canon ships that were only on screen in damaged form for an episode, there's nothing left that hasn't been added to the game, so all that we can go forward with is cryptic specific designs.
No they haven't but that's what a lot of the whiners around keep hearing/reading. Eve though it doesn't exist.
Not the only one. I'm looking forward to it too.
Some of the designs they've previewed, are ok based only on what's been shown so far. Others, meh, need some work. I am not in anyway against Cryptic designs, if their good ones and make some sort of "starship" sense. While some kitbash designs are pretty damn good and look well thought out, a lot of the kitbash designs I've seen on the web from fans and other sources, frankly, suck.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
It DOES matter! The rest of it was for THEIR benefit. Only the first 2 were to the players benefit. If the customer (player in this case) is not happy. You lose business. That's common sense. Seems to me a good amount of the people in these 150+ pages are NOT happy. My suggestion allows them to keep business as opposed to having it tank, badly. A big issue is that the developers don't like to listen to the players if they lose ANY money. Money matters more to them than the game itself. Unlike the players who are the opposite. So the conflict is easy to spot. My suggestion was a compromise from both sides. It seems to me you agree( from the business POV) with their nonsense. You are so focused on the idea that they would be losing money that you've turned a blind eye to what it my suggestion would mean in its entirety. So here's a question, if you are not here to get your money's worth, why are you here?
Thank you for the off-topic derogatory comment. It must have made you feel good
People take for granted that their old ships will be suddenly useless and not capable of doing anything. This has been stated subtly and not so subtly by many. It is in fact, simply not true and has been stated not to be true by Dev's in blog posts.
However, since that fact and view doesn't support their sense of self-entitlement, many people ignore it or claim the opposite. At that point, in my view and opinion, they become whiners, not players.
Don't like it when someone calls a spade and spade? Don't be one of them. Otherwise, deal with it.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I have been bombing the last few grinds. Only reason for me to grind in ex#2 is to replace the guns, armor, shield, boiler, etc on my battleship (and frigates). After that, I shan't grind any more until the time we have to level up to state leader.
I wonder if this will make ESTFs easier?