I had to laugh at this. True, there are lots of things Cryptic doesn't HAVE to do. They don't even have to leave tier 5 ships in the game. Hell, they could delete all T5 ships from the game, make you grind up to level 50 with a T4, then buy a T6. They could delete all the starbases and disband the fleets if you don't pay a maintenance fee (ransom demand) by a specified date. They could start charging 5 or 10 Zen just to swap out a weapon on a ship, or switch warp cores. They don't HAVE to let us do that for free. They have lots of flexibility.
But we also don't have to pay them.
Oh don't bother, check the illustrious gentleman's(?) posting history and volume of posts when he has to defend it's precious. 12k posts total no less, he'll be here until the servers shut down and he outlasts everybody.
I do hope he puts his money, and lots of it, to where his mouth is.
I had to laugh at this. True, there are lots of things Cryptic doesn't HAVE to do. They don't even have to leave tier 5 ships in the game. Hell, they could delete all T5 ships from the game, make you grind up to level 50 with a T4, then buy a T6. They could delete all the starbases and disband the fleets if you don't pay a maintenance fee (ransom demand) by a specified date. They could start charging 5 or 10 Zen just to swap out a weapon on a ship, or switch warp cores. They don't HAVE to let us do that for free. They have lots of flexibility.
But we also don't have to pay them.
Obviously you do not have to pay them...and if they are not meeting your needs, you're under no contractual agreement to pay them.
It's a simple thing, though, that it's in Cryptic's best interest to try to meet the needs of the majority of their customers...since they derive their revenue from their customers. That does not mean they will be able to please all of their customers all of the time...that's unrealistic.
It's still an amazing thing how many folks operate under the impression that Cryptic is doing everything they can to fail...
...they've got bills to pay. Not just the company, but the folks that work there. They want good reviews from their bosses and their bosses want good reviews from their bosses, etc, etc, etc. They're not independently wealthy and just doing this out of boredom...it's their job, it's their livelihood. The goal is to succeed.
Do they TRIBBLE up from time to time? Hell yes they TRIBBLE up from time to time...and they have to eat the consequences of TRIBBLE up. Doesn't mean the goal is to TRIBBLE up.
yeah, still sooo much we dont know, which is kinda fun in its own way, im guessing we can
level the mastery in end game instances and content though, as they said it comes from kills
so it may not be too terrible.. may not
See, I don't think it's fun...meh. I think it could have been fun. There's things they could have kept us guessing on - things they could have done in chunks and so forth; but this piecemeal stuff - failing to answer the big questions that wouldn't leak any info we shouldn't know about stuff coming, etc, etc, etc...meh, it kind of ticks me off. Yeah, I know they're busy - they've got their production schedule to keep to for the release and that a bunch of the stuff we do see is probably from their free time; but it doesn't mean it's not ticking me off with some of the things.
Hrmm, I think it was this thread - where I posted the S6 blog post for the Fleet ships; let me see if I can it again...
What I want to know is, once DR is released and all the new content is in place - including available T5-U's and T6 - what, exactly, makes the T5 ships worse than they are now?
How do they stop being fun to play?
How are we prevented from (if we choose) ignoring the DR content and just playing the existing content with our existing T5 ships?
Will it get a little more challenging as we level up? Sure. That's not a bad thing in a lot of cases - some of the missions are far too easy anyway.
Cryptic have stated that we could easily play even the DR content with a basic T5 ship, even if it is scaled for T6, so it will be harder - but again the game is lacking challenge anyway.
I'm just not understanding the problem.
I have a bunch of ships I like. I don't have to upgrade them. I can play existing and new content without paying any money at all, but I'll have a welcome additional challenge as I begin to level up again.
If I choose, I can upgrade my existing ship, or buy a new T6, as and when I want. Or not, as the case may be.
So I'm losing nothing, and I'm gaining content, challenge and options should I choose to take them.
It's still an amazing thing how many folks operate under the impression that Cryptic is doing everything they can to fail...
...they've got bills to pay. Not just the company, but the folks that work there. They want good reviews from their bosses and their bosses want good reviews from their bosses, etc, etc, etc. They're not independently wealthy and just doing this out of boredom...it's their job, it's their livelihood. The goal is to succeed.
Developers of Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Hellgate London, Vanguard, etc send their regards.
What I want to know is, once DR is released and all the new content is in place - including available T5-U's and T6 - what, exactly, makes the T5 ships worse than they are now?
How do they stop being fun to play?
How are we prevented from (if we choose) ignoring the DR content and just playing the existing content with our existing T5 ships?
Will it get a little more challenging as we level up? Sure. That's not a bad thing in a lot of cases - some of the missions are far too easy anyway.
Cryptic have stated that we could easily play even the DR content with a basic T5 ship, even if it is scaled for T6, so it will be harder - but again the game is lacking challenge anyway.
I'm just not understanding the problem.
I have a bunch of ships I like. I don't have to upgrade them. I can play existing and new content without paying any money at all, but I'll have a welcome additional challenge as I begin to level up again.
If I choose, I can upgrade my existing ship, or buy a new T6, as and when I want. Or not, as the case may be.
So I'm losing nothing, and I'm gaining content, challenge and options should I choose to take them.
Better yet, stay in Miranda and play content up to level 10, I don't see a problem here, why do you need even T2 ship?
You can also try endgame in Miranda, it will be a challenge.
Just a Suggestion on top of my mind why not add whey to get the tire 5-U to the full T6 bonus trait whit the crafting i do not mind the extra work will take the get my old ship to the new tire.
Better yet, stay in Miranda and play content up to level 10, I don't see a problem here, why do you need even T2 ship?
You can also try endgame in Miranda, it will be a challenge.
Yeah you can. What's your point?
Have you tried using a low tier ship with MK X-XII gear? It can actually be quite fun.
They've stated that the new content will be playable with a T5 ship. So if you want to play it, you don't need a T6 or even a T5-U. There's no need to spend money.
Why so obsessed with having the 'best thing' in the game? Do you always rush out and buy 'the latest thing'?
Just wait for a ZEN and/or C-Store sale, or just stop playing.
Just a Suggestion on top of my mind why not add whey to get the tire 5-U to the full T6 bonus trait whit the crafting i do not mind the extra work will take the get my old ship to the new tire.
Because that would defeat the purpose of arm twisting the players into buying T6 ships.
if this goes live, ships that i already bought now costing more to stay competitive, and still not getting all the perks of the new ships. TRIBBLE this game.
officially pay to win at that point. knew it was only a matter of time considering PWE's business practices, but was hoping it would never happen. not that c-store ship consoles weren't in that realm already, but they weren't really required as you could do everything without them (except PvP). now unless you're lucky and have a lockbox ship (another cute trick there obvious BUY MORE KEYS ploy is obvious) you will get left behind.
gratz cryptic and PWE, you completely trashed everything star trek was supposed to be about with season 7, that greed. you continued the trend wiith doff prices and slavery in the federation. and now, locking out content unless you pay.
just freaking genius. instead of trying to get more new players, milk the ones you already have for every dime. you seem to do everything you possibly can to keep the player base low and old hands.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
My point is you can peddle crud uphill all you want and claim it's fun.
It's still peddling crud uphill, for most people anyways.
FYI: You don't speak for 'most' people unless they officially elect you their spokesperson, so do try to remember that your opinion is only your opinion.
Then get off the bike and stop peddling. Constantly disagreeing with other people's opinions on here isn't going to change anything.
Go and find another game you enjoy and play that instead - you'll probably be happier.
I'm certainly not interested in wasting my time on games I don't enjoy - I only have so many hours to spend having fun, so if a game or activity isn't enjoyable, I won't do it.
If DR arrives and everything is awful P2W nonsense, I'll just enjoy the content I enjoy with my existing ships until I either can't or don't, then I'll find something else to do.
It's just a game. There are a huge number of games. I'm sure it won't be a problem to find a replacement.
Okay, so now we first hear about Tier 6 ships and also now that the Tier 5 can be upgraded. I have but only one thing to ask.
What about those that already have Tier 5 Fleet Ships and also Z-Store ships as well? Is this going to be grandfathered into the Delta Rising Expansion? Or is this something that perhaps we have the option to have a reinbursement in our Zen toward Tier 6?
Because my concern to Perfectworld is this. I would most certainly hope that for those invested in Fleet Ships they don't forget about players like us. Otherwise, as we say it in sci fi,
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
erm... no, just no! the characterstic of this product is that it is always subject to change,
it is plastered on every official blog and document they have, its an mmo!! furthermore,
they havn't devalued anything, it is only your perception of the product, that has been
devalued, and that is based on the expansion with its cap level increase and new content,
that you arn not obliged to pay for or play......
Look, I can agree that Cryptic/PWE has to make money. I can agree that we have to pay for the T6 ships, not even making a problem with that. But I do not agree nor accept that we have to pay extra to upgrade those ships that we have already bought that have to be the top notch of the ships. Yes, the EULA and their TOS says that the product is subject to change, but NOT according to the European Warranty Law on software/games. And sorry to say, this one overules everything what's been mentioned in their EULA & TOS, the moment that this piece of software has hit the European market. Learn to life with that.
OK, if I have to stay here for a while, your cieling ... looks idious.:D
FYI: You don't speak for 'most' people unless they officially elect you their spokesperson, so do try to remember that your opinion is only your opinion.
Then get off the bike and stop peddling. Constantly disagreeing with other people's opinions on here isn't going to change anything.
Go and find another game you enjoy and play that instead - you'll probably be happier.
Actually I am pretty much mirroring what many said before, so yes we are a significant chunk of playerbase, probably a majority.
I presume the size of your Cryptic purchases are equal to your loudness?
Look, I can agree that Cryptic/PWE has to make money. I can agree that we have to pay for the T6 ships, not even making a problem with that. But I do not agree nor accept that we have to pay extra to upgrade those ships that we have already bought that have to be the top notch of the ships. Yes, the EULA and their TOS says that the product is subject to change, but NOT according to the European Warranty Law on software/games. And sorry to say, this one overules everything what's been mentioned in their EULA & TOS, the moment that this piece of software has hit the European market. Learn to life with that.
Do you fly any Fleet ships? Yes?
Did you buy the Standard version first (even if it was just for the discount for multiple toons to buy Fleet versions)? Yes?
What's your complaint then?
Okay, so now we first hear about Tier 6 ships and also now that the Tier 5 can be upgraded. I have but only one thing to ask.
What about those that already have Tier 5 Fleet Ships and also Z-Store ships as well? Is this going to be grandfathered into the Delta Rising Expansion? Or is this something that perhaps we have the option to have a reinbursement in our Zen toward Tier 6?
Because my concern to Perfectworld is this. I would most certainly hope that for those invested in Fleet Ships they don't forget about players like us. Otherwise, as we say it in sci fi,
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
Tier 5 Fleet and Store ships can be upgraded in the same way as basic T5.
Okay, so now we first hear about Tier 6 ships and also now that the Tier 5 can be upgraded. I have but only one thing to ask.
What about those that already have Tier 5 Fleet Ships and also Z-Store ships as well? Is this going to be grandfathered into the Delta Rising Expansion? Or is this something that perhaps we have the option to have a reinbursement in our Zen toward Tier 6?
Because my concern to Perfectworld is this. I would most certainly hope that for those invested in Fleet Ships they don't forget about players like us. Otherwise, as we say it in sci fi,
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
As far as I understood you will be able to upgrade them to second best (almost as good according to Cryptic) for equivalent of $5-$10 worth of Zen per ship.
No refunds planned or mentioned at this point.
And yes, I think it will be a short walk out of the airlock in the end.
This is a repost of my original with some changed wording and added quotes & comments.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
Seems like a calculated risk by a very cynical company who thinks they know their players. It could work in their favor and the naysayers like me will be the minority. Or it could blow up in their face like the poorly received Galaxy refit (recent) or it could be something in between.
Frankly between the numerous new grids, crafting, leveling of ships and all the other work they are adding with X2, I think the joy has been sucked out of this game. Couldn't even work up the enthusiasm to do the CE today and yesterday ... and that event is super easy and generous.
Charging people for upgrades is okay (assuming $5 or $10). Making the upgraded ships inferior to T6 (significantly in my opinion) + lack of revamped canon ships is NOT.
But whatever ... fanbois are salivating over these announcements.
yes. my fleet for a few months has about 6 active members and before that 3 to 4. in a few months we went from barely T2 level to starting T 4. we were so looking forward to getting fleet version of our favorite ships. Our fleets head main leaders are both lifers since beta and they are LIVID. why both getting any fleet ship after this and now even our mirror ships with is about half my fleet are not upgradable. Thus the MAIN INSENTIVE for people coming into our fleet is now gone. The fact that in 12 hours this thread has gone to 108 pages and now going beyond. Most of it negative. Many feel this is going to be the worse patch ever. Heck about 5 of us spent minutes talking about the fed t6 ship on their new article. Not one of us like it. It's not FED and many of us know ship modelers that can do a much better job in this. I worked on Star Trek Legacy Ultimate Universe mod and was one of the orginal 3 that worked on the Sins mod Star trek Armada 3. so we know ship designs. what Crypic is bringing out is completely garbage on the fed front.
I agree with you. Although I'm not a PvP person myself nor do I think PvP is of any major concern but aside from that you are 100% correct. We have all paid and ground for what we have. We ARE NOT going to do that again. Think about it, why pay to grind? Why should we have to grind at all? It realm makes no sense and neither does this new expansion.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
I tip my hat to you sir. You have laid out what cryptic/PWE refuses to understand about us, the players. I hope you, or someone else re-posts this so that someone might actually take action from it. It's a long shot, but it's all we got
Wow bud. You're tone suggests that you're someone with a lot of disposable income or someone who has never bought a c-store ship ever - that or you just missed that guys' point.
Myself as an example:
I have the Galaxy Pack, the Oddy Pack, the Scimi Pack, the B'Rel and the Mogh. Like many others, I didn't blow that $200 on Zen to have the 3RD BEST tiered ships in the game. To potentially make me pay another $55-$110 (depending on the $5 or $10 charge to upgrade to T5-U) just to keep them all 'competitive' is pretty bastardly IMO - that doesn't even take into account the money I've blown buying zen for modules on fleet variants.
I'll give the launch of this season a shot, but right now I'm of the opinion that STO just got the gold medal in 'Uncool Olympics'.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
It would appear that STO is developing a revolt. Everyone from those who started out when STO came out, life members, and the free to play, are telling STO this Tier 6 deal and the Tier 5 upgrade deal is over the top. The question is whether or not STO will listen and take heed.
Leveling up and gather a new ship is one thing, but making the not so long ago released top of the line ships into obsolete, especially for those who just got them and have not even been able to max out their potential yet, is not selling. Upgrading some ships that turns out to not even be an upgrade isn't selling at all. Will the Devs listen and act?
One can only wonder when the Devs will finally get around to fixing the exchange since it's been messed up since 9 was released. This happens every time they come out with a new season and yet for some reason there seems to be no motivation to correct the errors generated by them. So now we have a defective product that's being turned upside down and people are supposed to be happy about this?
I'm really curious to see how PWE can ignore 142 pages and counting of absolutely unhappy players. Will that unlock Geko insulting the playerbase again? Hopefully not. Will it result in anything changing. Probably not. We all need to keep our money in our wallets and vote that way. Revenue is the only way to ensure they don't make asinine moves like this again in the future.
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
My bet is they will put our complaints in a neat pile labeled "Vocal Minority" - and BURN it.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before itis too late..
gorngonzolla has answered some of the questions being raised recently in the thread already (would be nifty if those could be linked in the OP or added to the blogs as a Q&A sort of thing beyond what's there already)...
Actually I am pretty much mirroring what many said before, so yes we are a significant chunk of playerbase, probably a majority.
I presume the size of your Cryptic purchases are equal to your loudness?
Sure - you're mirroring what a bunch of people on the forums have said. If you think that's a majority of the playerbase you are probably a bit deluded. Most of the people I know who play literally never visit the forums. In the majority of situations like this you'll find that in reality, you are part of a vocal minority.
Unless Cryptic want to actually reveal any hard numbers (unlikely) we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Regardless, your opinion is still only your opinion (even when it matches that of other people). When you speak, you do so for yourself - not others.
I'm not sure how around 4-5 posts in a thread of over 200 pages is being 'loud', but yes, I've spent money on this game. Probably not as much as some, but my first Character was created prior to it being F2P, and I own plenty of store ships - my latest Fed character is at 50 and hasn't touched a single free ship - everything has been a store purchase. I have 4x active Fed toons at 50, all running with different ships, all store purchases. I have others that are not yet at 50 who have also got ships from the store. If you are suggesting that I'm only relaxed about it because I've never paid them any money, you're very much mistaken.
I just understand that I got what I paid for (Tier X ships with whatever console), because I understand that it's an online game that is subject to change. The T5 ships are clearly defined as such, there is no way to mistake that for a promise that they are 'The best thing in the game forever'.
I also understand that I can still play with all of them after DR launches.
None of which has anything to do with my previous point either way. If you don't like the game, stop playing and do something else with your time that you enjoy. Why waste it on something you are fed up with?
I have work to do, so I need to sign off. I hope that if you are truly this annoyed with the game that you find something else you can enjoy to be so passionate about.
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
"and most queues..."
...so it begs the question then, what are the not "and most queues..." that will require a T5-U or T6 ship then, eh?
Cause that puts a different angle on things as far as saying folks can do stuff in their regular ol' T5 boats...
As far as I understood you will be able to upgrade them to second best (almost as good according to Cryptic) for equivalent of $5-$10 worth of Zen per ship.
No refunds planned or mentioned at this point.
And yes, I think it will be a short walk out of the airlock in the end.
I don't mind the fee for the upgrade for Tier V Starships. What I do mind however is if they are not even going to consider a "Grandfather Clause" or even a "Reinbursment". In other words a trade in for zen or reduced rate for those with a fleet ship already? What is the worth of the MMO anymore? Even with the Tier VI coming out still the main concern should be,
"Options, options, options."
Pay $5 to $10 per upgrade for each ship. So lets do the math here.
Lets use X=$10 as the up fee to upgrade each ship. Now lets say I own well 5 ships from the Z-Store. What does that factor to?
5 x X= $50
So already with this math it is a no brainer it is going to cost me the same fee for a Ship Bundle Pack say like for the "Galaxy Bundle" or the "Scimitar Bundle" that perhaps one could be investing their money in when instead we have to cough out "$50" to upgrade our ships? Geez I only feel concern for the rest of my fellow gaming brothers and sisters that possibly have more than 5 to deal with.
Now for all kicks and giggles respectfully speaking lets look at that now "other" fee factor for a ship upgrade. This time X=$5
5 x X=$25
So now I am upgrading 5 starships for the price of 1? Again yes I said it once and I will say it again:
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
Now to Perfectworld my favorite line by Clint Eastwood from "Grand Torino"
Okay. This is getting annoying, so let me address some points...
1. Geko has said, from Day 1, that T5U will not be true T6. This is intentional to make us want to buy T6. Obviously, from both the Trekkie's "prototypical" thought pattern (if it ain't canon, it ain't pretty enough to fly) to the completely "oddball" blue hull with scanline heaven design(s), they need to have "incentives" to drop ~$30 per on these ship(s).
1A. However, the claims have been made that T5U (upgraded T5s) will be "competitive" with these T6s. As all the information has not been released - will Specialits fit into universal slots? What will these new traits that primarily come from T6 ships do for you? What level of power will the 13th BOff slot be, and will the 11th console be able to compete with this? (remember, they're calculating the +1 console for T6 from the "baseline" of the L40 T5s, which only had 9. Therefore, T6s have 10 consoles. All T5Us get a bonus console, which, since many T5.5s have 10 to begin with, means the T5U version(s) of those ships will have 11...)
2. On the guess that T6 will cost ~$30, and that the T5Us (especially the T5U11 - 11 console versions - as we call it) will rank as "competitive" enough to work, "paying" the upgrade cost so that the total investment is $30 isn't a "problem" for me. Vesta, for example, is a $25 ship, and if the module costs $5, total investment $30. Galaxy-X is a $20, +$5 for fleet module (T5.5 level), $5 for upgrade = $30.
2A. To reiterate my math. 800 lobi ships "earn" Cryptic: based on an average of 5 lobi per box, it takes about 160 boxes to earn a ship. At $1.25 a key, this is $200. If the "grand prize" ships really drop at a rate of .1%, this means that 1 in a 1000 boxes release the ship. Again, at $1.25 a key, this is $1,250 (I was off a zero before...) that should have been dumped in for the RNG to "grace" us with one of those ships... Since both of these numbers are significantly higher than the $30 investment level for a T6 ship, they "deserve" to be upgraded to the T5U standard automatically. That, and when Fleet ships released in the first place, all existing lockbox-oriented ships automatically (and freely) received said upgrade, so the precedent is set.
Right now, I'll admit that the whole upgrade system "seems" promising while maintaining Cryptic's stated goal of "earning more money" and, oddly enough, maybe keeping the total investment the same for the various styles of power. Is this statement going to hold true? More blogs are required. How pretty am I sitting? That is a matter of debate, of my 3 "mains", all 3 of them fly a ship that will require upgrading (Fed Vesta, KDF C-store DSD, Rommie Fleet T'Varo), but I do have a fallback (Orb Weaver and Recluse on my Fed Main-main, grindaversary DSD on the KDF) And if/when finances permit, I am currently fairly tempted to buy at least 1 actual T6 to grind out a starship trait. Of course, I'm hedging bets right now and waiting for all this intel that has to be dribbled out in the name of "maintaining hype and interest"...
I won't cry foul on a "double-dip", unless the math holds it as true. I won't cry foul on the anticipated "competitiveness" unless either the math or practical experience holds true. Am I going to sing praises? No confirmation has been given to earn said praises. Will I be rightfully concerned? Yep. Can we just blow up the hype machine and get all the info to make proper decisions today? Does anyone have a starship with access to PWE headquarters?
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I don't have time to read all the posts that are written here so sorry if this was already mentioned.
I'd be happy if there would be way to sell upgrade tokens on exchange. It could work the same way the Fleet Modules work but it would be new/unique C-Store item. This way there would be more ways to obtain them as there are always players in need of EC that will be willing to sell it. With the current dilithium/zen exchange rates and number of alt characters and ships that I'd like to convert it would be of much help.
Captain Smirk, hope you can give your comment to this as I think so far it wasn't dismissed by the devs.
Comments
Oh don't bother, check the illustrious gentleman's(?) posting history and volume of posts when he has to defend it's precious. 12k posts total no less, he'll be here until the servers shut down and he outlasts everybody.
I do hope he puts his money, and lots of it, to where his mouth is.
Obviously you do not have to pay them...and if they are not meeting your needs, you're under no contractual agreement to pay them.
It's a simple thing, though, that it's in Cryptic's best interest to try to meet the needs of the majority of their customers...since they derive their revenue from their customers. That does not mean they will be able to please all of their customers all of the time...that's unrealistic.
It's still an amazing thing how many folks operate under the impression that Cryptic is doing everything they can to fail...
...they've got bills to pay. Not just the company, but the folks that work there. They want good reviews from their bosses and their bosses want good reviews from their bosses, etc, etc, etc. They're not independently wealthy and just doing this out of boredom...it's their job, it's their livelihood. The goal is to succeed.
Do they TRIBBLE up from time to time? Hell yes they TRIBBLE up from time to time...and they have to eat the consequences of TRIBBLE up. Doesn't mean the goal is to TRIBBLE up.
See, I don't think it's fun...meh. I think it could have been fun. There's things they could have kept us guessing on - things they could have done in chunks and so forth; but this piecemeal stuff - failing to answer the big questions that wouldn't leak any info we shouldn't know about stuff coming, etc, etc, etc...meh, it kind of ticks me off. Yeah, I know they're busy - they've got their production schedule to keep to for the release and that a bunch of the stuff we do see is probably from their free time; but it doesn't mean it's not ticking me off with some of the things.
Hrmm, I think it was this thread - where I posted the S6 blog post for the Fleet ships; let me see if I can it again...
How do they stop being fun to play?
How are we prevented from (if we choose) ignoring the DR content and just playing the existing content with our existing T5 ships?
Will it get a little more challenging as we level up? Sure. That's not a bad thing in a lot of cases - some of the missions are far too easy anyway.
Cryptic have stated that we could easily play even the DR content with a basic T5 ship, even if it is scaled for T6, so it will be harder - but again the game is lacking challenge anyway.
I'm just not understanding the problem.
I have a bunch of ships I like. I don't have to upgrade them. I can play existing and new content without paying any money at all, but I'll have a welcome additional challenge as I begin to level up again.
If I choose, I can upgrade my existing ship, or buy a new T6, as and when I want. Or not, as the case may be.
So I'm losing nothing, and I'm gaining content, challenge and options should I choose to take them.
Developers of Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Hellgate London, Vanguard, etc send their regards.
Or do you imply they used to strive to fail?
Better yet, stay in Miranda and play content up to level 10, I don't see a problem here, why do you need even T2 ship?
You can also try endgame in Miranda, it will be a challenge.
Yeah you can. What's your point?
Have you tried using a low tier ship with MK X-XII gear? It can actually be quite fun.
They've stated that the new content will be playable with a T5 ship. So if you want to play it, you don't need a T6 or even a T5-U. There's no need to spend money.
Why so obsessed with having the 'best thing' in the game? Do you always rush out and buy 'the latest thing'?
Just wait for a ZEN and/or C-Store sale, or just stop playing.
My point is you can peddle crud uphill all you want and claim it's fun.
It's still peddling crud uphill, for most people anyways.
Because that would defeat the purpose of arm twisting the players into buying T6 ships.
officially pay to win at that point. knew it was only a matter of time considering PWE's business practices, but was hoping it would never happen. not that c-store ship consoles weren't in that realm already, but they weren't really required as you could do everything without them (except PvP). now unless you're lucky and have a lockbox ship (another cute trick there obvious BUY MORE KEYS ploy is obvious) you will get left behind.
gratz cryptic and PWE, you completely trashed everything star trek was supposed to be about with season 7, that greed. you continued the trend wiith doff prices and slavery in the federation. and now, locking out content unless you pay.
just freaking genius. instead of trying to get more new players, milk the ones you already have for every dime. you seem to do everything you possibly can to keep the player base low and old hands.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
FYI: You don't speak for 'most' people unless they officially elect you their spokesperson, so do try to remember that your opinion is only your opinion.
Then get off the bike and stop peddling. Constantly disagreeing with other people's opinions on here isn't going to change anything.
Go and find another game you enjoy and play that instead - you'll probably be happier.
I'm certainly not interested in wasting my time on games I don't enjoy - I only have so many hours to spend having fun, so if a game or activity isn't enjoyable, I won't do it.
If DR arrives and everything is awful P2W nonsense, I'll just enjoy the content I enjoy with my existing ships until I either can't or don't, then I'll find something else to do.
It's just a game. There are a huge number of games. I'm sure it won't be a problem to find a replacement.
What about those that already have Tier 5 Fleet Ships and also Z-Store ships as well? Is this going to be grandfathered into the Delta Rising Expansion? Or is this something that perhaps we have the option to have a reinbursement in our Zen toward Tier 6?
Because my concern to Perfectworld is this. I would most certainly hope that for those invested in Fleet Ships they don't forget about players like us. Otherwise, as we say it in sci fi,
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
Look, I can agree that Cryptic/PWE has to make money. I can agree that we have to pay for the T6 ships, not even making a problem with that. But I do not agree nor accept that we have to pay extra to upgrade those ships that we have already bought that have to be the top notch of the ships. Yes, the EULA and their TOS says that the product is subject to change, but NOT according to the European Warranty Law on software/games. And sorry to say, this one overules everything what's been mentioned in their EULA & TOS, the moment that this piece of software has hit the European market. Learn to life with that.
Actually I am pretty much mirroring what many said before, so yes we are a significant chunk of playerbase, probably a majority.
I presume the size of your Cryptic purchases are equal to your loudness?
Do you fly any Fleet ships? Yes?
Did you buy the Standard version first (even if it was just for the discount for multiple toons to buy Fleet versions)? Yes?
What's your complaint then?
Tier 5 Fleet and Store ships can be upgraded in the same way as basic T5.
As far as I understood you will be able to upgrade them to second best (almost as good according to Cryptic) for equivalent of $5-$10 worth of Zen per ship.
No refunds planned or mentioned at this point.
And yes, I think it will be a short walk out of the airlock in the end.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
My above and below comments apply to this Quote
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before itis too late..
Fleet ships...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18835641&postcount=618
Lock Box ships...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18831241&postcount=331
Impressive, I would agree on most points, either way - well put.
Sure - you're mirroring what a bunch of people on the forums have said. If you think that's a majority of the playerbase you are probably a bit deluded. Most of the people I know who play literally never visit the forums. In the majority of situations like this you'll find that in reality, you are part of a vocal minority.
Unless Cryptic want to actually reveal any hard numbers (unlikely) we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Regardless, your opinion is still only your opinion (even when it matches that of other people). When you speak, you do so for yourself - not others.
I'm not sure how around 4-5 posts in a thread of over 200 pages is being 'loud', but yes, I've spent money on this game. Probably not as much as some, but my first Character was created prior to it being F2P, and I own plenty of store ships - my latest Fed character is at 50 and hasn't touched a single free ship - everything has been a store purchase. I have 4x active Fed toons at 50, all running with different ships, all store purchases. I have others that are not yet at 50 who have also got ships from the store. If you are suggesting that I'm only relaxed about it because I've never paid them any money, you're very much mistaken.
I just understand that I got what I paid for (Tier X ships with whatever console), because I understand that it's an online game that is subject to change. The T5 ships are clearly defined as such, there is no way to mistake that for a promise that they are 'The best thing in the game forever'.
I also understand that I can still play with all of them after DR launches.
None of which has anything to do with my previous point either way. If you don't like the game, stop playing and do something else with your time that you enjoy. Why waste it on something you are fed up with?
I have work to do, so I need to sign off. I hope that if you are truly this annoyed with the game that you find something else you can enjoy to be so passionate about.
...so it begs the question then, what are the not "and most queues..." that will require a T5-U or T6 ship then, eh?
Cause that puts a different angle on things as far as saying folks can do stuff in their regular ol' T5 boats...
I'll go when I am good and ready, mind your own business, OK peddler? :cool:
Oh goodie, so Cryptic is lying on new content being more challenging or on the need for new ships?
Because you know, if content isn't challenging and can be made with old ships, why have new ships?
Eh?
I don't mind the fee for the upgrade for Tier V Starships. What I do mind however is if they are not even going to consider a "Grandfather Clause" or even a "Reinbursment". In other words a trade in for zen or reduced rate for those with a fleet ship already? What is the worth of the MMO anymore? Even with the Tier VI coming out still the main concern should be,
"Options, options, options."
Pay $5 to $10 per upgrade for each ship. So lets do the math here.
Lets use X=$10 as the up fee to upgrade each ship. Now lets say I own well 5 ships from the Z-Store. What does that factor to?
5 x X= $50
So already with this math it is a no brainer it is going to cost me the same fee for a Ship Bundle Pack say like for the "Galaxy Bundle" or the "Scimitar Bundle" that perhaps one could be investing their money in when instead we have to cough out "$50" to upgrade our ships? Geez I only feel concern for the rest of my fellow gaming brothers and sisters that possibly have more than 5 to deal with.
Now for all kicks and giggles respectfully speaking lets look at that now "other" fee factor for a ship upgrade. This time X=$5
5 x X=$25
So now I am upgrading 5 starships for the price of 1? Again yes I said it once and I will say it again:
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
Now to Perfectworld my favorite line by Clint Eastwood from "Grand Torino"
"Get off my lawn!"
1. Geko has said, from Day 1, that T5U will not be true T6. This is intentional to make us want to buy T6. Obviously, from both the Trekkie's "prototypical" thought pattern (if it ain't canon, it ain't pretty enough to fly) to the completely "oddball" blue hull with scanline heaven design(s), they need to have "incentives" to drop ~$30 per on these ship(s).
1A. However, the claims have been made that T5U (upgraded T5s) will be "competitive" with these T6s. As all the information has not been released - will Specialits fit into universal slots? What will these new traits that primarily come from T6 ships do for you? What level of power will the 13th BOff slot be, and will the 11th console be able to compete with this? (remember, they're calculating the +1 console for T6 from the "baseline" of the L40 T5s, which only had 9. Therefore, T6s have 10 consoles. All T5Us get a bonus console, which, since many T5.5s have 10 to begin with, means the T5U version(s) of those ships will have 11...)
2. On the guess that T6 will cost ~$30, and that the T5Us (especially the T5U11 - 11 console versions - as we call it) will rank as "competitive" enough to work, "paying" the upgrade cost so that the total investment is $30 isn't a "problem" for me. Vesta, for example, is a $25 ship, and if the module costs $5, total investment $30. Galaxy-X is a $20, +$5 for fleet module (T5.5 level), $5 for upgrade = $30.
2A. To reiterate my math. 800 lobi ships "earn" Cryptic: based on an average of 5 lobi per box, it takes about 160 boxes to earn a ship. At $1.25 a key, this is $200. If the "grand prize" ships really drop at a rate of .1%, this means that 1 in a 1000 boxes release the ship. Again, at $1.25 a key, this is $1,250 (I was off a zero before...) that should have been dumped in for the RNG to "grace" us with one of those ships... Since both of these numbers are significantly higher than the $30 investment level for a T6 ship, they "deserve" to be upgraded to the T5U standard automatically. That, and when Fleet ships released in the first place, all existing lockbox-oriented ships automatically (and freely) received said upgrade, so the precedent is set.
Right now, I'll admit that the whole upgrade system "seems" promising while maintaining Cryptic's stated goal of "earning more money" and, oddly enough, maybe keeping the total investment the same for the various styles of power. Is this statement going to hold true? More blogs are required. How pretty am I sitting? That is a matter of debate, of my 3 "mains", all 3 of them fly a ship that will require upgrading (Fed Vesta, KDF C-store DSD, Rommie Fleet T'Varo), but I do have a fallback (Orb Weaver and Recluse on my Fed Main-main, grindaversary DSD on the KDF) And if/when finances permit, I am currently fairly tempted to buy at least 1 actual T6 to grind out a starship trait. Of course, I'm hedging bets right now and waiting for all this intel that has to be dribbled out in the name of "maintaining hype and interest"...
I won't cry foul on a "double-dip", unless the math holds it as true. I won't cry foul on the anticipated "competitiveness" unless either the math or practical experience holds true. Am I going to sing praises? No confirmation has been given to earn said praises. Will I be rightfully concerned? Yep. Can we just blow up the hype machine and get all the info to make proper decisions today? Does anyone have a starship with access to PWE headquarters?
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I don't have time to read all the posts that are written here so sorry if this was already mentioned.
I'd be happy if there would be way to sell upgrade tokens on exchange. It could work the same way the Fleet Modules work but it would be new/unique C-Store item. This way there would be more ways to obtain them as there are always players in need of EC that will be willing to sell it. With the current dilithium/zen exchange rates and number of alt characters and ships that I'd like to convert it would be of much help.
Captain Smirk, hope you can give your comment to this as I think so far it wasn't dismissed by the devs.
Thank you.