Exploiters? Are you suggesting the talented developers of Cryptic have released content that is exploitable?
I find that hard to believe!
Exactly. It is hard to believe. It is not like Cryptic had to rollback the servers on a Saturday last year in another game because of some massive exploit that got out of hand.
20x Duranium
8x Hydrazine Gas
12x Trionium Gas 6x Hexaflourine Gas
10x Thoron Particle
4x Tritanium
6x Verteron Particle 10x Rubidium
14x Tetrazine Gas
2x Z-Particle 6x Argonite Gas
6x Craylon Gas
15x Plekton
8x Trellium-K 14000 Dilithium
All that up there, those aren't the mats required to craft what you want...
...those are the required mats to gamble at a chance of possibly crafting what you want.
Yeah, I figure the price is going to reflect that.
I now feel the need to point out that these are the VR/UR recipes. They're no fail, so you'll always get something, the question is if you will crit and get the best thing. For the beam array, you may or may not get an [Acc] array, etc....
Disassembly doesn't give you the best components, no matter what an item is made of. And of course the game uses a powers of 5 system for converting lower tier stuff to higher tier. Oh and everything used in crafting an item must be the same tier. Including the toolkit...
My challenge was: "name one [MMO] where it's that easy to get top tier gear by crafting"
In TSW, it's easy to make usable gear, but the good stuff? that follows the same pattern as Diablo 2. Massacre monsters and/or trade with other players for days to get the components you need to make one item.
Speaking as a newbie to STO, I'm bemused by how rapid the levelling is -- I've only been playing for a few weeks, and I figure I'm a few days away from level 50. The big problem I have with most crafting systems in games is that there's a mismatch between advancement in the crafting systems and advancement in the game in general, and STO seems to have carried this to an extreme. I'll have finished all the storyline missions *months* before I can craft items that would have been useful for completing those missions -- and I can get good enough stuff by recycling and trading on the Exchange for what others have found as random loot. So what's the point of crafting?
Well If some of you bothered to actually craft instead of what amounts to a doff mission, You'd be fine. I'm already at 105,000 for ground weapons (I REALLY want a TR-116B), and we've been at this for what? a week and and two days? I've got a 6000 slotted, and I've got a another 2400 on top of that on cool down at the moment. You can get the items for free doing doff missions, craft componets and then craft the actual items, and then, guess what, SELL THEM FOR EC! even if you just dump them in your replicator, Boom, income.
So, one day I decided to spend an hour doing 3x 600's for an hour on each toon rather than slotting 3x Research for three different schools.
At the end, I had 1800 XP in a single school with vendor trash that didn't even recover the cost of a few of the Common mats.
It meant crafting the components from the raw mats, but that wasn't really an issue - mainly just a case that I'm burnt out on the sheer number of clicks 'n scrolls this game involves between DOFFing, Fleets, Reputation, the current conversion event, and then adding in the R&D to it. Wouldn't mind the R&D clicking if it had some actual value to it...obviously subjective, but it doesn't for me.
So I went back to slotting the 3x Research instead...figuring I can sell the mats I would have wasted to be able to buy the VR mats I won't be able to get outside of running content I won't run. /shrug
you don't even need to run anything, just doff Science and Exploration.
Oh, look, I made another 600 points since my first post. I can easily get ten to twelve thousand XP a day without dropping a single EC, D or Z in a few hours of work an evening.
1 6000 point project
one Mark X weapon (1,800)
Five mark VI weapons (3000)
equals 10,800. Not counting the component crafting rewards
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I now feel the need to point out that these are the VR/UR recipes. They're no fail, so you'll always get something, the question is if you will crit and get the best thing. For the beam array, you may or may not get an [Acc] array, etc....
But that's kind of the point...you're not necessarily going to get what you want.
Sure, you'll get at least a VR something...but that's not UR, eh? And it's going to have various mods...but will it have the mods you want?
For example, one of my guys wants a Wide Phaser DHC...let's look what's on the Exchange right now:
VR [CrtH]x2[Dmg]...anope.
VR [Acc][CrtD][Dmg]...anope.
VR [CrtH][Dmg]x2...anope.
VR [Acc]x2[Dmg]...anope.
UR [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][Pen]...anope.
UR [Acc][CrtD][CrtH]x2...anope.
UR [Acc][CrtH][Dmg][Snare]...anope.
Okay, let's drop the Phaser bit (we'll have repeats) and just go UR:
Disruptor [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][Snare]...anope.
Disruptor [Acc][CrtD][Dmg]x2...anope.
Disruptor [Acc][CrtH]x2[Dmg]...anope.
Plasma [Acc][CrtD][CrtH]x2...anope.
Phaser [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][Pen]...anope.
Disruptor [CrtH][Dmg]x2[Rapid]...anope.
Phaser [Acc][CrtD][CrtH]x2...anope.
Plasma [Acc][CrtH]x2[Dmg]...anope.
Phaser [Acc][CrtH][Dmg][Snare]...anope.
Antiproton [Acc][Arc][Dmg][Thrust]...anope...bugged at that with the [Arc] there.
Tetryon [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][PvP Res]...anope.
frtoaster's got a thread out there where he started to look at the probabilities of getting what you wanted...
UR's going to have four mods. For those mods, you can have:
I don't think I can get anymore disappointed with the new crafting. Though I do get a laugh at Cryptic's hypocrisy:
"We got rid of Borg Tech drops because it wasn't fair" (2 years later, they add Very Rare materials to Elites).
"Nobody was using the crafting system, because they didn't like Dilithum costs" (Adds more Dilithum costs and grind to the new crafting).
:rolleyes:
Well, they pretty much shot themselves in the foot. People are leaving in droves now. Even the staunchest of supporters are giving up. 9.5 is truly STO's NGE moment.
There you go, fixed it for you. :P
Borg drops were Bind on Pickup. You have options for getting the materials now. Their original assessment is still valid.
The old crafting system made gear that was pointless and expensive. The new one has gear that is top tier and in some cases the best in game.
People aren't leaving in droves and anyone who does because of crafting is a gods damned idiot. "I don't like the replacement to a system I never used, or getting new rewards in queues so I'm leaving" - sounds moronic, right?
The old crafting system made gear that was pointless and expensive. The new one has gear that is top tier and in some cases the best in game.
and cryptic could have added all this new gear to the old system............... but noooo pwe cryptic had to put there trademark on it and REEEEEEE vamp it
and cryptic could have added all this new gear to the old system............... but noooo pwe cryptic had to put there trademark on it and REEEEEEE vamp it
Don't you mean Re-Revamp the Revamp? IIRC, this is Crafting's umpteenth "Revamp"
I was actually talking to a friend of mine who's been playing this game nearly since it started, and he believes this new system to him is actually better than the 1st time it got revamped. To him it was confusing to get anywhere. Under this new system, he likes how it's laid out. I actually agree with him on this and don't see much of a problem with a system that is not supposed to be for people already doing endgame stuff.
Borg drops were Bind on Pickup. You have options for getting the materials now. Their original assessment is still valid.
If you say so. :rolleyes:
I mean yeah it's tradable, but how many are willing to actually trade it? They gave an example of a fleet crafter, but if you are PuGing it, it's very much likely not going to happen. Which means a random chance at a purchase of 1000 DL in a 2 day wait, or in box that is up to 1000 zen, or buying it off the exchange with what's left of your life savings.
The old crafting system made gear that was pointless and expensive. The new one has gear that is top tier and in some cases the best in game.
Click click click for a year, then grind grind grind to get the materials for a random chance to build the best weapons in the game, which made Fleet weapons totally obsolete. Hey thanks Cryptic, people spent years working on their stupid starbases to unlock garbage that is now obsolete.
So in the process they killed Exploration, they killed Memory Alpha, they killed Fleet Starbases, they killed EC, they messed up Doffing, and making us pay more with Dilithum, which people didn't like in the previous system!
People aren't leaving in droves and anyone who does because of crafting is a gods damned idiot. "I don't like the replacement to a system I never used, or getting new rewards in queues so I'm leaving" - sounds moronic, right?
Maybe they are leaving because Cryptic ruined what's left of their "fun" and then called them idiots in a podcast?
What MMO is that? Um, seriously, name one where it's that easy to get top teir gear by crafting.
WoW is one. It sure beats this crafting by a long shot. My main was a miner/blacksmith. All I had to do was put time in running around mining ore. I could build as many stuff at once as long I had the mats. So at times I would level several at once. There was no time gates what so ever. Plus as you gained in level you gained stats boost as well. Like mining added stamina. Blacksmith added armor and weapons. Also any crafted stuff as long it wasn't grey or white items. You could visit an Enchanter to break it down to other useful materials to sell or to add more stats to your gear.
Compared to this crafting and WoW's version. I take WoW's any day since it was easy and fun.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I have a real job, that means I can't log in during working hours during the week, which means I can't do this.
I would like to set a mk X going before work, then set another one that evening, but the materials costs of that generally preclude me doing it 5 days a week, until I can find a decent source of rare materials that doesn't cost a bucket-load of EC. But I ain't holding my breath for that.
Must have changed that since last time I read the blog it stated Level 20 for traits. Level 20 must be reserved for future crafting equipment since it serves no purpose at the moment.
I have no idea why crafting is concerning so many people. It takes a certain type of player to get into crafting and there is a very good chance that a lot of the people that are complaining about crafting now have never touched the crafting system at all. So they are not likely to bother with any crafting system that Cryptic would have made. Crafting is just like PvP. Only certain players actually bother with it in any MMO. If Cryptic made a controversial PvP update, then people that never touch PvP would complain about it. The only people that would have the right to complain about it are PvPers since it is their part of the game.
High skill ratings increase your chance for crits, aka actually getting ultra-rare gear out of your crafting.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
People aren't leaving in droves and anyone who does because of crafting is a gods damned idiot.
I already told this to another "gem" of our playerbase yesterday and I'm telling you too now, sir - the person who calls other people idiots because of their personal preferences is an idiot himself.
I had so much fun with crafting yesterday. I'm already pretty advanced in all crafts, i can make nice and useful items and consumables. I am currently leveling up a character and every 5 levels i can make a new armor thats way better than what drops. When I craft a full set of armor for my character i get enough crafting XP to be able to craft the next tier of items. I can deconstruct gear to get materials for crafting If i don't want to gather them. The real high-end crafting is a bit harder to master though since you need a lot of different items. That's why I somewhat started crafitng reluctantly but now that i get the hang of it i find it great because its fun to find out what I need and how to get it.
Well, you guessed it, I'm not talking about STO. There i just start a project when I happen to log in. Not very exciting...
I just... kinda stopped the grind when they eliminated the ability to slot the same project in all available assignment slots.
Then I happened to see that a tier 5 crafting 'ingredient' (not the end item, just one ingredient... of which the end item needed two) cost 4k dil to create.
Granted, I can get 6k dil a day if I work at it, 2k if I TRIBBLE around... but I can only refine 8k unless I dig up additional refining missions...
So.. 9.5 refined a day.
And there are so MANY dil sinks in the game now; none of which I touch.
Fleet projects - never get a single dil, ever. Fleet marks are easier to earn and pay FAR higher (and don't have to be refined).
Considering the PITA grind to get some items, the payout in trade for them is laughably small - Beta Quadrant commodities (ketracel, lockets, ect) - you get five on a success, with maybe 3 missions in 24 hours (8 or 9 if I really plug away at it) - yet the XP return on them is *laughably* insulting.
Now extortion level dil charges to craft *low level* items... And the $$$ grabbing 'craft goods box' bullfeces...
Uh, no. I don't think so.
Buh'bye STO - and to think I thought ElderScrolls Online screwed up their game too badly to play... Now you've gone and done it to yourselves.
But to craft that endgame gear requires some invested effort instead of this.
There are problems with STO crafting, but it is far better than the previous version which was so bad that hardly anyone used it.
I never said in my example about Tera's crafting system that it didn't require invested effort. What's your counterpoint if you even have one? And yeah the previous crafting system was bad but this one still isn't worth the time or effort in light of what you have to spend/grind to make anything worth using in endgame.
I never said in my example about Tera's crafting system that it didn't require invested effort. What's your counterpoint if you even have one? And yeah the previous crafting system was bad but this one still isn't worth the time or effort in light of what you have to spend/grind to make anything worth using in endgame.
If I may?
The previous crafting system made nothing you could not get as a drop or from a vendor. The end game items swiftly got outclassed by the rep gear and was a bit easier to get.
This iteration of the crafting system means that you can get players hooked on blue and purple gear as you level. And has gear that people will want at end game. Is it expensive, okay. But it is now desired.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The previous crafting system made nothing you could not get as a drop or from a vendor. The end game items swiftly got outclassed by the rep gear and was a bit easier to get.
This iteration of the crafting system means that you can get players hooked on blue and purple gear as you level. And has gear that people will want at end game. Is it expensive, okay. But it is now desired.
It's still cheaper and easier to get fleet and rep gear.
I never said in my example about Tera's crafting system that it didn't require invested effort. What's your counterpoint if you even have one?
The quote in my post seemed to be about no invested effort. There are a couple of MMOs that have no invested effort, but the majority of MMOs require some effort to craft the best craftable equipment. Some MMOs require less invested effort than STO and some require more effort than STO. A lot of crafting systems require players to craft vendor trash before you can create useful equipment. At least STO has the 20 hour project to make things easier.
And yeah the previous crafting system was bad but this one still isn't worth the time or effort in light of what you have to spend/grind to make anything worth using in endgame.
STO's crafting system isn't worth the time or effort to you. It is only your opinion and some others, but not everyone's opinion. Don't assume that you speak for everyone.
I posted the following in the odds thread, but figured I'd post it here as well since posting in this thread is what got me to go back to look at the other thread...
My assumption for pricing is not that you will get a specific set of mods, but rather that you will get at least some number of mods that you care about. The chance of a specific combination of mods is .25*.25*.1, which is of course very very low. The chance of "usable set of mods" is much better, at something like .75*.5*.4 for a "reasonably choicey" player - they have at least one specific mod they want (e.g. Acc), one mod they will accept one of two mods on (either Acc or CritH), and the "special crafting mod slot" where they'll accept Acc, CritH, or maybe Pen or Thrust, for example.
The new crafting modifiers can only appear once per weapon, and Acc/CritH/CritD/Dmg can all also appear in the same pool of mods.
Looking at something I was posting about in another thread...
Not even close to 450, or even 300. Don't forget, once you get to a certain point, you can start slotting 5 of these researches every 20 hours. But regardless, who cares? Either do it and stop ******** or don't do it. It really makes no difference. At least you won't have to deal with the greedy TRIBBLE on the exchange for good items anymore.
Not even close to 450, or even 300. Don't forget, once you get to a certain point, you can start slotting 5 of these researches every 20 hours. But regardless, who cares? Either do it and stop ******** or don't do it. It really makes no difference. At least you won't have to deal with the greedy TRIBBLE on the exchange for good items anymore.
Research some threads on this forum within the past few days. The Math has already been done on the matter; at least 335 days to level 20.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
Exactly. It is hard to believe. It is not like Cryptic had to rollback the servers on a Saturday last year in another game because of some massive exploit that got out of hand.
*looks up The Secret World*
Disassembly doesn't give you the best components, no matter what an item is made of. And of course the game uses a powers of 5 system for converting lower tier stuff to higher tier. Oh and everything used in crafting an item must be the same tier. Including the toolkit...
My challenge was: "name one [MMO] where it's that easy to get top tier gear by crafting"
In TSW, it's easy to make usable gear, but the good stuff? that follows the same pattern as Diablo 2. Massacre monsters and/or trade with other players for days to get the components you need to make one item.
My character Tsin'xing
Legacy of Grindulus
Special season 9.5 edition
WITH 50% MORE GRIND THEN OTHER R&D SYSTEMS OF THE COMPETITIORS!!!!!!
So, one day I decided to spend an hour doing 3x 600's for an hour on each toon rather than slotting 3x Research for three different schools.
At the end, I had 1800 XP in a single school with vendor trash that didn't even recover the cost of a few of the Common mats.
It meant crafting the components from the raw mats, but that wasn't really an issue - mainly just a case that I'm burnt out on the sheer number of clicks 'n scrolls this game involves between DOFFing, Fleets, Reputation, the current conversion event, and then adding in the R&D to it. Wouldn't mind the R&D clicking if it had some actual value to it...obviously subjective, but it doesn't for me.
So I went back to slotting the 3x Research instead...figuring I can sell the mats I would have wasted to be able to buy the VR mats I won't be able to get outside of running content I won't run. /shrug
Oh, look, I made another 600 points since my first post. I can easily get ten to twelve thousand XP a day without dropping a single EC, D or Z in a few hours of work an evening.
1 6000 point project
one Mark X weapon (1,800)
Five mark VI weapons (3000)
equals 10,800. Not counting the component crafting rewards
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
But that's kind of the point...you're not necessarily going to get what you want.
Sure, you'll get at least a VR something...but that's not UR, eh? And it's going to have various mods...but will it have the mods you want?
For example, one of my guys wants a Wide Phaser DHC...let's look what's on the Exchange right now:
VR [CrtH]x2[Dmg]...anope.
VR [Acc][CrtD][Dmg]...anope.
VR [CrtH][Dmg]x2...anope.
VR [Acc]x2[Dmg]...anope.
UR [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][Pen]...anope.
UR [Acc][CrtD][CrtH]x2...anope.
UR [Acc][CrtH][Dmg][Snare]...anope.
Okay, let's drop the Phaser bit (we'll have repeats) and just go UR:
Disruptor [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][Snare]...anope.
Disruptor [Acc][CrtD][Dmg]x2...anope.
Disruptor [Acc][CrtH]x2[Dmg]...anope.
Plasma [Acc][CrtD][CrtH]x2...anope.
Phaser [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][Pen]...anope.
Disruptor [CrtH][Dmg]x2[Rapid]...anope.
Phaser [Acc][CrtD][CrtH]x2...anope.
Plasma [Acc][CrtH]x2[Dmg]...anope.
Phaser [Acc][CrtH][Dmg][Snare]...anope.
Antiproton [Acc][Arc][Dmg][Thrust]...anope...bugged at that with the [Arc] there.
Tetryon [Acc][CrtD][Dmg][PvP Res]...anope.
frtoaster's got a thread out there where he started to look at the probabilities of getting what you wanted...
UR's going to have four mods. For those mods, you can have:
[Acc] - multiples
[CrtD] - multiples
[CrtH] - multiples
[Dmg] - multiples
...a single of the following...
[Pen]
[PvP Dmg]
[PvP Res]
[Rapid]
[Snare]
[Thrust]
So getting a UR [Acc]x2[CrtD][Pen] Wide Arc Phaser Dual Heavy Cannon...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1151831 is the thread.
And as he states in the last post there, we still don't know the method that Cryptic is using - so - we can't even say what the odds are, eh?
Borg drops were Bind on Pickup. You have options for getting the materials now. Their original assessment is still valid.
The old crafting system made gear that was pointless and expensive. The new one has gear that is top tier and in some cases the best in game.
People aren't leaving in droves and anyone who does because of crafting is a gods damned idiot. "I don't like the replacement to a system I never used, or getting new rewards in queues so I'm leaving" - sounds moronic, right?
and cryptic could have added all this new gear to the old system............... but noooo pwe cryptic had to put there trademark on it and REEEEEEE vamp it
system Lord Baal is dead
Don't you mean Re-Revamp the Revamp? IIRC, this is Crafting's umpteenth "Revamp"
If you say so. :rolleyes:
I mean yeah it's tradable, but how many are willing to actually trade it? They gave an example of a fleet crafter, but if you are PuGing it, it's very much likely not going to happen. Which means a random chance at a purchase of 1000 DL in a 2 day wait, or in box that is up to 1000 zen, or buying it off the exchange with what's left of your life savings.
Click click click for a year, then grind grind grind to get the materials for a random chance to build the best weapons in the game, which made Fleet weapons totally obsolete. Hey thanks Cryptic, people spent years working on their stupid starbases to unlock garbage that is now obsolete.
So in the process they killed Exploration, they killed Memory Alpha, they killed Fleet Starbases, they killed EC, they messed up Doffing, and making us pay more with Dilithum, which people didn't like in the previous system!
Yay?
Maybe they are leaving because Cryptic ruined what's left of their "fun" and then called them idiots in a podcast?
WoW is one. It sure beats this crafting by a long shot. My main was a miner/blacksmith. All I had to do was put time in running around mining ore. I could build as many stuff at once as long I had the mats. So at times I would level several at once. There was no time gates what so ever. Plus as you gained in level you gained stats boost as well. Like mining added stamina. Blacksmith added armor and weapons. Also any crafted stuff as long it wasn't grey or white items. You could visit an Enchanter to break it down to other useful materials to sell or to add more stats to your gear.
Compared to this crafting and WoW's version. I take WoW's any day since it was easy and fun.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I have a real job, that means I can't log in during working hours during the week, which means I can't do this.
I would like to set a mk X going before work, then set another one that evening, but the materials costs of that generally preclude me doing it 5 days a week, until I can find a decent source of rare materials that doesn't cost a bucket-load of EC. But I ain't holding my breath for that.
dream on. they will likely to upgrade it to "working as intended" before they ever consider nerfing it so its better for us.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
High skill ratings increase your chance for crits, aka actually getting ultra-rare gear out of your crafting.
I already told this to another "gem" of our playerbase yesterday and I'm telling you too now, sir - the person who calls other people idiots because of their personal preferences is an idiot himself.
Well, you guessed it, I'm not talking about STO. There i just start a project when I happen to log in. Not very exciting...
Then I happened to see that a tier 5 crafting 'ingredient' (not the end item, just one ingredient... of which the end item needed two) cost 4k dil to create.
Granted, I can get 6k dil a day if I work at it, 2k if I TRIBBLE around... but I can only refine 8k unless I dig up additional refining missions...
So.. 9.5 refined a day.
And there are so MANY dil sinks in the game now; none of which I touch.
Fleet projects - never get a single dil, ever. Fleet marks are easier to earn and pay FAR higher (and don't have to be refined).
Considering the PITA grind to get some items, the payout in trade for them is laughably small - Beta Quadrant commodities (ketracel, lockets, ect) - you get five on a success, with maybe 3 missions in 24 hours (8 or 9 if I really plug away at it) - yet the XP return on them is *laughably* insulting.
Now extortion level dil charges to craft *low level* items... And the $$$ grabbing 'craft goods box' bullfeces...
Uh, no. I don't think so.
Buh'bye STO - and to think I thought ElderScrolls Online screwed up their game too badly to play... Now you've gone and done it to yourselves.
You didn't take a lesson from SW:NGE, did you?
I never said in my example about Tera's crafting system that it didn't require invested effort. What's your counterpoint if you even have one? And yeah the previous crafting system was bad but this one still isn't worth the time or effort in light of what you have to spend/grind to make anything worth using in endgame.
If I may?
The previous crafting system made nothing you could not get as a drop or from a vendor. The end game items swiftly got outclassed by the rep gear and was a bit easier to get.
This iteration of the crafting system means that you can get players hooked on blue and purple gear as you level. And has gear that people will want at end game. Is it expensive, okay. But it is now desired.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
It's still cheaper and easier to get fleet and rep gear.
The quote in my post seemed to be about no invested effort. There are a couple of MMOs that have no invested effort, but the majority of MMOs require some effort to craft the best craftable equipment. Some MMOs require less invested effort than STO and some require more effort than STO. A lot of crafting systems require players to craft vendor trash before you can create useful equipment. At least STO has the 20 hour project to make things easier.
STO's crafting system isn't worth the time or effort to you. It is only your opinion and some others, but not everyone's opinion. Don't assume that you speak for everyone.
system Lord Baal is dead
[arc][modifier]x3
Only ones i see are [arc][modifier]x2 [modifier]x1 or
[arc][modifier]x1 [modifier]x1 [modifier]x1
Research some threads on this forum within the past few days. The Math has already been done on the matter; at least 335 days to level 20.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind