The Secret World does a lot of stuff that is abnormal for MMO games like no levels, their missions, and no crafting ranking system. For most MMOs, you have to grind through some crafting system to be able to craft endgame gear, but for TSW all you need is the right components. So TSW can't be grouped with other MMOs.
It is an MMO however. And the question was name one MMO that did such a thing and I did. We can't start disqualifying statements that do directly answer a question because said game doesn't fit into a particular persons view of a certain type of MMO.
The fact is, at least one MMO does so the question has been answered.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
It is an MMO however. And the question was name one MMO that did such a thing and I did. We can't start disqualifying statements that do directly answer a question because said game doesn't fit into a particular persons view of a certain type of MMO.
The fact is, at least one MMO does so the question has been answered.
But the original response is, Meanwhile in other games..... As far as I know, one game is not other games. Most MMOs that use a crafting system have some type of grind associated with it. The only other MMO that I know of that had no crafting grind to craft endgame items was City of Heroes. However, there was a crafting grind to memorize common invention enhancements so you didn't need a recipe to craft them anymore. City of Heroes can't be included anymore due to it closing down years ago.
But the original response is, Meanwhile in other games..... As far as I know, one game is not other games. Most MMOs that use a crafting system have some type of grind associated with it. The only other MMO that I know of that had no crafting grind to craft endgame items was City of Heroes. However, there was a crafting grind to memorize common invention enhancements so you didn't need a recipe to craft them anymore. City of Heroes can't be included anymore due to it closing down years ago.
Tera is another game with a crafting "grind" that most notably won't take 345 days just to gain proficiency in a certain discipline where most of the time is consumed by acquiring the more exotic materials for the high end gear. I was able to craft my endgame gear within 30 days of starting my character. Also you can reverse engineer loot dropped gear. STO's crafting system is none of these things. Instead, a lead developer who has gone on public record with his disdain of the player base gave us this joke of a system. Crafting wasn't worth a flip before, and this system could have changed that, but it's only worth it to psycophants and gladhanding yesmen/women who will applaud anything in this game.
Instead, a lead developer who has gone on public record with his disdain of the player base gave us this joke of a system. Crafting wasn't worth a flip before, and this system could have changed that, but it's only worth it to psycophants and gladhanding yesmen/women who will applaud anything in this game.
I've had this exact thought. Not as eloquent, to be sure. But I applaud your honesty.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Expensive at the start but rapidly dropping in price?
All that up there, those aren't the mats required to craft what you want...
...those are the required mats to gamble at a chance of possibly crafting what you want.
Yeah, I figure the price is going to reflect that.
All that up there, those aren't the mats required to craft what you want...
...those are the required mats to gamble at a chance of possibly crafting what you want.
There is ANOTHER issue with this system -- we grind and grind and grind and grind and grind for the *possibility* of MAYBE *POTENTIALLY* getting the items we want and/or need. And it's exactly the same for the loot boxes. Almost none of the ones I have opened have actually given me the item it was named for. In fact, the ONLY purple items I've received from these boxes are Trellium-K. It's like they don't really want us to make the max level end game gear the system was supposedly designed to craft.
This type of grind doesn't create incentive for actually doing it -- it makes players resent the system and the game it's in. It would appear that the devs here don't see that, or if they do they don't care. Either way, it's pretty telling of the way the company is run.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
What MMO is that? Um, seriously, name one where it's that easy to get top teir gear by crafting.
The alternative to a 345 day crafting grind isn't "easy."
That's a binary concept you added into my comment.
I said other games use a more traditional crafting system. It's not "easy" ... but it's not the extreme time gated absurdity this game just put out to its players.
Now you do me a solid and name one Cryptic made game that has tiered end-game content to get top tier gear by "raiding."
Doesn't take that long. If you run a single 20 hour Research each day, thus equivocating the 20 hours to 24 hours, at most you are looking at...
2,070,000 / 6,000 = 345
...345 days. But it doesn't take long until you start getting into 7,000 XP instead of 6,000 XP. Thus, it will reduce your overall time to get there. Think it is around 17 where you are guaranteed the 7,000 instead of the 6,000.
So that 918,000 which at 6k would have taken 153 days will only take 132 days at 7k.
So the 345 day number isn't a real number either. Odds are that it will work out to somewhere under 300 days or so...that's not a hard calculation, mind you. It's also going to depend on your RLS rarity.
Virus has become the dev's defender and complainer of non-bugs lately. It takes exactly 334 days of grinding to get 1 school up to level 20 without crafting or bonus weekends.
All that up there, those aren't the mats required to craft what you want...
...those are the required mats to gamble at a chance of possibly crafting what you want.
Yeah, I figure the price is going to reflect that.
Eh everything but the very rare components costs pennies and at least for now even the random trash you craft sells for more than the components cost
The R&D Traits are Personal Traits...they'll use up one of your Personal Trait slots (not Reputation, but Personal slots).
hahahahahahaha ****ty traits, long TRIBBLE grind. what a joke of a system. the traits are beat out by the stock traits that you get just from making a character. loooooooooooooooooooool.
Tera is another game with a crafting "grind" that most notably won't take 345 days just to gain proficiency in a certain discipline where most of the time is consumed by acquiring the more exotic materials for the high end gear. I was able to craft my endgame gear within 30 days of starting my character. Also you can reverse engineer loot dropped gear. STO's crafting system is none of these things. Instead, a lead developer who has gone on public record with his disdain of the player base gave us this joke of a system. Crafting wasn't worth a flip before, and this system could have changed that, but it's only worth it to psycophants and gladhanding yesmen/women who will applaud anything in this game.
But to craft that endgame gear requires some invested effort instead of this.
"Oh look, I made a pretty cool sword. The materials were simple to find, it's got the stats I want, and I didn't have to wait 3 hours to craft it. I got to choose it's quality too! Granted, at a higher quality, it required more base materials and a few rare ones, but those weren't hard to come by, and it was worth the investment! I can also break it back down and recycle it for a few base materials, maybe some rares if I'm lucky. This is, dare I say, actually fun!"
Crazy, am I right? Absolute madness!
There are problems with STO crafting, but it is far better than the previous version which was so bad that hardly anyone used it.
I don't think I can get anymore disappointed with the new crafting. Though I do get a laugh at Cryptic's hypocrisy:
"We got rid of Borg Tech drops because it wasn't fair" (2 years later, they add Very Rare materials to Elites).
"Nobody was using the crafting system, because they didn't like Dilithum costs" (Adds more Dilithum costs and grind to the new crafting).
:rolleyes:
Well, they pretty much shot themselves in the foot. People are leaving in droves now. Even the staunchest of supporters are giving up. 9.5 is truly STO's NGE moment.
hahahahahahaha ****ty traits, long TRIBBLE grind. what a joke of a system. the traits are beat out by the stock traits that you get just from making a character. loooooooooooooooooooool.
For some folks of certain species, they'll have some useless Ground Personal Traits they can replace with the R&D Traits. Many folks have already replaced those with the better Lock Box Traits...so for some folks, yeah - the Traits won't do anything for them. That's like anything, eh?
Kind of like that Plasma Torp, meh. The Arc Arrays and Arc DHCs...come in multiple flavors...but the Torp...Plasma only? Meh...
Well someone has made ultra rare items already which means they must have like leveled to 10+ already as i was looking on exchange about an hour or so ago and there is loads on there already to sell. . .
So they won't change anything when people have either spent Dil to get round the time gate or managed to get that high somehow already.
Eh everything but the very rare components costs pennies and at least for now even the random trash you craft sells for more than the components cost
MK VI vendor sales (not replicators, but 50% vendors) don't even cover the cost of 2-3 Common mats (doing the price per unit, not getting gouged by just searching cheapest and paying to much for single items) for somebody looking at doing some crafting to reduce the time it takes.
Well someone has made ultra rare items already which means they must have like leveled to 10+ already as i was looking on exchange about an hour or so ago and there is loads on there already to sell. . .
So they won't change anything when people have either spent Dil to get round the time gate or managed to get that high somehow already.
Unless I'm missing something that is
Some folks have dropped out hundreds of dollars for ZEN for R&D Gamble Boxes as well as Dil to blow through the leveling...there's a trippy discussion going on involving Smirk on Twitter.
Don't suppose you have the link to it do ya would be an interesting read
Let me see if I can find it - I don't have much luck with Twitter links - the conversations always move on and truncate the comments. I know it was in his retweets section from the 21st to 24th, in conversations with sirboulevard. ashkrik23 was the one that brought it up in another thread and got me looking...let me try to find that thread.
The time it takes to get maxed crafting abilities is, meh to me. You can still get some decent stuff at not the maxed level it appears.
The problem is the result are random, so you may not get what you paid for, or what your looking for, and for some, the only option to get decent items is to use the crafting.
Oh, and to be sure you are all using the crafting system, they removed the D-store. Got to give them credit, they know what they're doing.
Best of luck to any new players looking to play the game to get any type of decent gear to be able to compete and have the paitient to even figure out how it even really works.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
20x Duranium
8x Hydrazine Gas
12x Trionium Gas 6x Hexaflourine Gas
10x Thoron Particle
4x Tritanium
6x Verteron Particle 10x Rubidium
14x Tetrazine Gas
2x Z-Particle 6x Argonite Gas
6x Craylon Gas
15x Plekton
8x Trellium-K 14000 Dilithium
All that up there, those aren't the mats required to craft what you want...
...those are the required mats to gamble at a chance of possibly crafting what you want.
Yeah, I figure the price is going to reflect that.
Some folks have dropped out hundreds of dollars for ZEN for R&D Gamble Boxes as well as Dil to blow through the leveling...there's a trippy discussion going on involving Smirk on Twitter.
And I bet you some who have max already are exploiters too.
I would be more on-board with the idea of a one-year crafting grind to level 20 in one school IF, and only IF...
Getting to level 15 took only a month or two months at MOST. Key word: MOST.
If they are really and honestly telling the truth with that whole 'level 20 is meant to be for the hardcore', fine, then make it for the hardcore, and let the rest of us be able to get to level 15 in each school in a relatively decent time frame.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Well If some of you bothered to actually craft instead of what amounts to a doff mission, You'd be fine. I'm already at 105,000 for ground weapons (I REALLY want a TR-116B), and we've been at this for what? a week and and two days? I've got a 6000 slotted, and I've got a another 2400 on top of that on cool down at the moment. You can get the items for free doing doff missions, craft componets and then craft the actual items, and then, guess what, SELL THEM FOR EC! even if you just dump them in your replicator, Boom, income.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I agree devs are out of their minds on the length of this grind, change it to 10hrs or bring back multi research projects in the same school. (around a year grind for one of six schools is nutz)
Anyways for this quote you are incoorect even with no dilithium 20hrs does not take 345 days, 345 days is based on a 24hr cool down (there are 24hrs in a day not 20)
I am going with the estimate for the average player that isn't up at 3 AM just so that they can activate their 20 hour project and starts the project at the same time every day. If someone starts the project the second that it comes off cooldown, then it is 287.5 days. For most of us, it will be 345 days.
Comments
Expensive at the start but rapidly dropping in price?
It is an MMO however. And the question was name one MMO that did such a thing and I did. We can't start disqualifying statements that do directly answer a question because said game doesn't fit into a particular persons view of a certain type of MMO.
The fact is, at least one MMO does so the question has been answered.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
But the original response is, Meanwhile in other games..... As far as I know, one game is not other games. Most MMOs that use a crafting system have some type of grind associated with it. The only other MMO that I know of that had no crafting grind to craft endgame items was City of Heroes. However, there was a crafting grind to memorize common invention enhancements so you didn't need a recipe to craft them anymore. City of Heroes can't be included anymore due to it closing down years ago.
Tera is another game with a crafting "grind" that most notably won't take 345 days just to gain proficiency in a certain discipline where most of the time is consumed by acquiring the more exotic materials for the high end gear. I was able to craft my endgame gear within 30 days of starting my character. Also you can reverse engineer loot dropped gear. STO's crafting system is none of these things. Instead, a lead developer who has gone on public record with his disdain of the player base gave us this joke of a system. Crafting wasn't worth a flip before, and this system could have changed that, but it's only worth it to psycophants and gladhanding yesmen/women who will applaud anything in this game.
I've had this exact thought. Not as eloquent, to be sure. But I applaud your honesty.
4x Component - Focusing Lens (12x Trionium Gas, 8x Hydrazine Gas)
4x Component - Targeting Interface (12x Trionium Gas, 8x Hydrazine Gas)
2x Component - Emitter Module (4x Tritanium, 6x Verteron Particle)
2x Component - EPS Conduit (6x Hexaflourine Gas, 4x Thoron Particle, 6x Tritanium)
2x Component - Firing Sequencer (4x Rubidium, 6x Z-Particle)
2x Component - Power Surge Regulator (6x Beta-Tachyon Particle, 10x Rubidium)
4x Component - Isolinear Circuitry (16x Dentarium, 4x Radiogenic Particle, 2000 Dilithium)
3x Component - Isolinear Chip (15x Argonite Gas, 9x Plekton, 12000 Dilithium)
16x Hydrazine Gas
24x Trionium Gas
6x Hexaflourine Gas
4x Thoron Particle
10x Tritanium
6x Verteron Particle
6x Beta-Tachyon Particle
14x Rubidium
6x Z-Particle
15x Argonite Gas
16x Dentarium
9x Plekton
4x Radiongenic Particle
14000 Dilithium
Wide Arc Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII
4x Component - Focusing Lens (12x Trionium Gas, 8x Hydrazine Gas)
4x Component - Barrel Synchronizer (13x Magnesite, 8x Duranium)
2x Component - Electronmagnetic Coupling (6x Tritanium, 4x Verteron Particle)
2x Component - EPS Regulator (6x Hexaflourine Gas, 10x Thoron Particle)
2x Component - Firing Sequencer (4x Rubidium, 6x Z-Particle)
2x Component - Plasma Compressor (10x Z-Particle, 6x Beta-Tachyon Particle)
4x Component - Isolinear Circuitry (16x Dentarium, 4x Radiogenic Particle, 2000 Dilithium)
3x Component - Isolinear Chip (15x Argonite Gas, 9x Plekton, 12000 Dilithium)
8x Duranium
8x Hydrazine Gas
13x Magnesite
12x Trionium Gas
6x Hexaflournie Gas
10x Thoron Particle
6x Tritanium
4x Verteron Particle
6x Beta-Tachyon Particle
4x Rubidium
16x Z-Particle
15x Argonite Gas
16x Dentarium
9x Plekton
4x Radiongenic Particle
14000 Dilithium
Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo Launcher Mk XII
4x Component - Targeting Interface (12x Magnesite, 8x Hydrazine Gas)
4x Component - Industrial Replicator Supplies (12x Magnesite, 8x Hydrazine Gas)
2x Component - Electromagnetic Coupling (6x Tritanium, 4x Verteron Particle)
2x Component - IFF Beacon (6x Hexaflourine Gas, 4x Thoron Particle, 6x Verteron Particle)
2x Component - Pressurization Chamber (8x Tetrazine Gas, 4x Z-Particle)
2x Component - Ejection System (8x Rubidium, 8x Beta-Tachyon Particle)
4x Component - Warp Field Regulator (16x Radiogenic Particle, 4x Dentarium, 2000 Dilthium)
3x Component - Intermix Chamber (12x Radiogenic Particle, 12x Dentarium, 12000 Dilithium)
16x Hydrazine Gas
24x Magnesite
6x Hexaflourine Gas
4x Thoron Particle
6x Tritanium
10x Verteron Particle
8x Beta-Tachyon Particle
8x Rubidium
8x Tetrazine Gas
4x Z-Particle
16x Dentarium
28x Radiogenic Particle
14000 Dilithium
Console - Engineering - Conductive RCS Accelerator Mk XII
4x Component - Lab Equipment (12x Trionium Gas, 8x Duranium)
4x Component - Industrial Replicator Supplies (12x Magnesite, 8x Hydrazine Gas)
2x Component - Coolant Injector (6x Tritanium, 4x Verteron Particle)
2x Component - Plasma Capacitor (8x Hexaflourine Gas, 8x Thoron Particle)
2x Component - Rerouting Lattice (8x Tetrazine Gas, 2x Z-Particle)
2x Component - Ejection System (8x Rubidium, 8x Beta-Tachyon Particle)
4x Component - Warp Field Regulator (16x Radiogenic Particle, 4x Dentarium, 2000 Dilthium)
3x Component - Intermix Chamber (12x Radiogenic Particle, 12x Dentarium, 12000 Dilithium)
8x Duranium
8x Hydrazine Gas
12x Magnesite
12x Trionium Gas
8x Hexaflourine Gas
8x Thoron Particle
6x Tritanium
4x Verteron Particle
8x Beta-Tachyon Particle
8x Rubidium
8x Tetrazine Gas
2x Z-Particle
16x Dentarium
28x Radiogenic Particle
14000 Dilithium
Console - Science - Exotic Particle Field Exciter Mk XII
4x Component - Lab Equipment (12x Trionium Gas, 8x Duranium)
4x Component - Particle Field Generator (12x Duranium, 8x Hydrazine Gas)
2x Component - Subprocessor Unit (6x Verteron Particle, 4x Tritanium)
2x Component - EPS Regulator (6x Hexaflourine Gas, 10x Thoron Particle)
2x Component - Pressurization Chamber (8x Tetrazine Gas, 2x Z-Particle)
2x Component - Quantum Field Focus (6x Tetrazine Gas, 10x Rubidium)
4x Component - Emitter Array (8x Trellium-K, 6x Craylon Gas, 2000 Dilithium)
3x Component - Signal Enhancement Module (15x Plekton, 6x Argonite Gas, 12000 Dilithium)
20x Duranium
8x Hydrazine Gas
12x Trionium Gas
6x Hexaflourine Gas
10x Thoron Particle
4x Tritanium
6x Verteron Particle
10x Rubidium
14x Tetrazine Gas
2x Z-Particle
6x Argonite Gas
6x Craylon Gas
15x Plekton
8x Trellium-K
14000 Dilithium
All that up there, those aren't the mats required to craft what you want...
...those are the required mats to gamble at a chance of possibly crafting what you want.
Yeah, I figure the price is going to reflect that.
The R&D Traits are Personal Traits...they'll use up one of your Personal Trait slots (not Reputation, but Personal slots).
There is ANOTHER issue with this system -- we grind and grind and grind and grind and grind for the *possibility* of MAYBE *POTENTIALLY* getting the items we want and/or need. And it's exactly the same for the loot boxes. Almost none of the ones I have opened have actually given me the item it was named for. In fact, the ONLY purple items I've received from these boxes are Trellium-K. It's like they don't really want us to make the max level end game gear the system was supposedly designed to craft.
This type of grind doesn't create incentive for actually doing it -- it makes players resent the system and the game it's in. It would appear that the devs here don't see that, or if they do they don't care. Either way, it's pretty telling of the way the company is run.
The alternative to a 345 day crafting grind isn't "easy."
That's a binary concept you added into my comment.
I said other games use a more traditional crafting system. It's not "easy" ... but it's not the extreme time gated absurdity this game just put out to its players.
Now you do me a solid and name one Cryptic made game that has tiered end-game content to get top tier gear by "raiding."
Let's see how that pendulum swings.
Virus has become the dev's defender and complainer of non-bugs lately. It takes exactly 334 days of grinding to get 1 school up to level 20 without crafting or bonus weekends.
Eh everything but the very rare components costs pennies and at least for now even the random trash you craft sells for more than the components cost
hahahahahahaha ****ty traits, long TRIBBLE grind. what a joke of a system. the traits are beat out by the stock traits that you get just from making a character. loooooooooooooooooooool.
But to craft that endgame gear requires some invested effort instead of this.
There are problems with STO crafting, but it is far better than the previous version which was so bad that hardly anyone used it.
"We got rid of Borg Tech drops because it wasn't fair" (2 years later, they add Very Rare materials to Elites).
"Nobody was using the crafting system, because they didn't like Dilithum costs" (Adds more Dilithum costs and grind to the new crafting).
:rolleyes:
Well, they pretty much shot themselves in the foot. People are leaving in droves now. Even the staunchest of supporters are giving up. 9.5 is truly STO's NGE moment.
There you go, fixed it for you. :P
For some folks of certain species, they'll have some useless Ground Personal Traits they can replace with the R&D Traits. Many folks have already replaced those with the better Lock Box Traits...so for some folks, yeah - the Traits won't do anything for them. That's like anything, eh?
Kind of like that Plasma Torp, meh. The Arc Arrays and Arc DHCs...come in multiple flavors...but the Torp...Plasma only? Meh...
So they won't change anything when people have either spent Dil to get round the time gate or managed to get that high somehow already.
Unless I'm missing something that is
MK VI vendor sales (not replicators, but 50% vendors) don't even cover the cost of 2-3 Common mats (doing the price per unit, not getting gouged by just searching cheapest and paying to much for single items) for somebody looking at doing some crafting to reduce the time it takes.
Some folks have dropped out hundreds of dollars for ZEN for R&D Gamble Boxes as well as Dil to blow through the leveling...there's a trippy discussion going on involving Smirk on Twitter.
If they did, it surely wouldn't be the first time. :rolleyes:
That's why veterans aren't so quick to buy something or push the "now" button to rush to the finish line. :P
Let me see if I can find it - I don't have much luck with Twitter links - the conversations always move on and truncate the comments. I know it was in his retweets section from the 21st to 24th, in conversations with sirboulevard. ashkrik23 was the one that brought it up in another thread and got me looking...let me try to find that thread.
The problem is the result are random, so you may not get what you paid for, or what your looking for, and for some, the only option to get decent items is to use the crafting.
Oh, and to be sure you are all using the crafting system, they removed the D-store. Got to give them credit, they know what they're doing.
Best of luck to any new players looking to play the game to get any type of decent gear to be able to compete and have the paitient to even figure out how it even really works.
Thank You.
And I bet you some who have max already are exploiters too.
Exploiters? Are you suggesting the talented developers of Cryptic have released content that is exploitable?
I find that hard to believe!
I would be more on-board with the idea of a one-year crafting grind to level 20 in one school IF, and only IF...
Getting to level 15 took only a month or two months at MOST. Key word: MOST.
If they are really and honestly telling the truth with that whole 'level 20 is meant to be for the hardcore', fine, then make it for the hardcore, and let the rest of us be able to get to level 15 in each school in a relatively decent time frame.
I don't think that is too much to ask.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I am going with the estimate for the average player that isn't up at 3 AM just so that they can activate their 20 hour project and starts the project at the same time every day. If someone starts the project the second that it comes off cooldown, then it is 287.5 days. For most of us, it will be 345 days.