So does Reputations. So does the DOFFing assignments.
You see, here's the problem - everyone wants the solution NOW. They don't want to work for it, they don't want to expend anything, they want to have it now, for free, with as minimal fuss as it is.
My earlier post was wrong - using Mk X Items would net you 1,800 XP. Supplement it with the 6000 Assignment and the number shoots up. If I play my cards right, I could have 13200 XP per day using a 6k assignment and about 4 Mk X items. Again, if I play my cards right. I'd get done in a little more than a month doing that. But, it requires work.
But, people here don't want work and that's the bad thing.
If I wanted it now...I would be saying the current wait is too long..The current time it would take with the xp values we have now would be fine..I t would still take many months..You cannot give me a valid reason how that is wanting it now considering we get reps faster....
I would like to think that the rich have something resembling brains. I know, that is idealistic and dumb. This kind of seems like spending enormous sums to have the option to paint your house green with a .005 reduction in the weather damage of your back deck. If the rich and famous want to throw their money away like that, then I'm not sure how they became rich in the first place, unless they are trust fund babies.
So does Reputations. So does the DOFFing assignments.
You see, here's the problem - everyone wants the solution NOW. They don't want to work for it, they don't want to expend anything, they want to have it now, for free, with as minimal fuss as it is.
My earlier post was wrong - using Mk X Items would net you 1,800 XP. Supplement it with the 6000 Assignment and the number shoots up. If I play my cards right, I could have 13200 XP per day using a 6k assignment and about 4 Mk X items. Again, if I play my cards right. I'd get done in a little more than a month doing that. But, it requires work.
But, people here don't want work and that's the bad thing.
Woot, 1 year to complete some of the schools. Sounds like fun....are you kidding me?
1 a month is fair, multiple after a year is unjust
Last time I spent money on this game was a year ago and I've not seen a single compelling reason to spend any since. I imagine I'll not ever spend a cent on this mess again. Half the time you use zen for something that becomes obsolete or unnecessary a bit later and as for the game "content" it's mostly been down hill since the Romulan season. I'm guessing that by season 10 I'll be so disenfranchised that my macked out account with 10,000's of zen and millions of dil will add hundreds of dollars to my bank account.
Just when I thought crafting would be an interesting thing to take up in this game for the first time, it's been rendered not worth a frak once again. If I want a multiyear grind I'll play Korean MMO's. If it was the same timeframe to max out one school as it does one reputation and gear up within said rep, I'd have no problem with it, but some peopel don't have lives and love it.
I would like to think that the rich have something resembling brains. I know, that is idealistic and dumb. This kind of seems like spending enormous sums to have the option to paint your house green with a .005 reduction in the weather damage of your back deck. If the rich and famous want to throw their money away like that, then I'm not sure how they became rich in the first place, unless they are trust fund babies.
Exploiters kirk, exploiters kirk. A lot who can throw billions away make more than they can ever get rid of thanks to stuff like the foundry exploit.
The important level to shoot for is Level 15. At that level, you can craft everything there is to craft in a given school. At that point, you can actually start to produce endgame gear. How long does that take?
It also seems it will only take a year if you actually don't bother to craft stuff, since if you craft items, you get more crafting XP per minute than with the 20h project.
And before the change, you may have been up to Level 15 or 20 faster in one category - but you still would have the other categories to level.
But for comparison:
I have DOFFed for 2-3 years now, and there is only one character that is reasonable close to having maxed out. (E.g. only one or two categories not at maximum). But like with crafting, DOFFIng gets you stuff of value way before maxing it out.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
So does Reputations. So does the DOFFing assignments.
You see, here's the problem - everyone wants the solution NOW. They don't want to work for it, they don't want to expend anything, they want to have it now, for free, with as minimal fuss as it is.
My earlier post was wrong - using Mk X Items would net you 1,800 XP. Supplement it with the 6000 Assignment and the number shoots up. If I play my cards right, I could have 13200 XP per day using a 6k assignment and about 4 Mk X items. Again, if I play my cards right. I'd get done in a little more than a month doing that. But, it requires work.
But, people here don't want work and that's the bad thing.
[sarcasm on]
So, by logging EVERY day, doing eSTF for mats, and crafting several items and the assignment, I can get it in one month ? Doing 1-2h of craft per day in STO, and only that will allow to reach me that goal before the game server stop working or the end of the world ?
Wow, that's awesome, where do I sign ?
[/sarcasm off]
I don't want the solution now. But I don't want the solution is 6.4 years either. But that's just me.
Anyway, have fun with your craft, the amount of components you are using and grinding everyday, I'll sell it, and buy the few items I want from crafter like you (most of them are unique after all). Thanks for doing the hard work for us, much appreciated.
I was happy to spend a lil cash on zen-dil here and there in the crafting and the game but after this... heh, not a chance. Might mean I have to spend more time grinding dili but this is just too extreme. I'm just not giving them anymore money if this is the kind of future they have planned with STO, not just in crafting but across the board.
Once they see that they can get away with a change like this they'll do it more and more. From now on I truely play for free Cryptic.
Though in truth I sense this is part of a bigger plan and I expect they will revert this change in part later as a way of appeasing players before they (Cryptic) do something else they have planned.
The math just is not their for the time invested at their rates. For items that are basicly fleet items you have to invest 2 years into crafting system, or work a few weeks for your fleet. This isn't even close to the rep system time wise, not even for just 1 school.
I'm going to pass on the crafting system after this change. Years of projects for same level of gear, honestly i dont care if it was mk15, still not worth that much time.
The math just is not their for the time invested at their rates.
Sure it is! Take a second mortgage on the house and buy crafting packs while spamming the Finish Now! button - you'll be able to keep the schedule they mentioned previously.
Sure it is! Take a second mortgage on the house and buy crafting packs while spamming the Finish Now! button - you'll be able to keep the schedule they mentioned previously.
Sure it is! Take a second mortgage on the house and buy crafting packs while spamming the Finish Now! button - you'll be able to keep the schedule they mentioned previously.
Heh, HELL NO doesn't do it justice...the comment that would do this justice would result in them contracting John de Lancie to deliver the ban (or more likely just result in our resident Q delivering it).
This is bull****. I am not spending another cent on this game. I'm gonna let my gold sub fill out the full number of days I paid for then I'm canceling it and I don't think I'll renew it ever again at this rate.
The thing that's really annoying, is the thought process of - "Okay, so they actually want us to craft." One might be able to accept that at first blush, until as was pointed out - one starts to look into all the mats that will be required to do it that way. So perhaps one starts to think about doing Mk X instead of Mk VI or Mk VIII, and then you remember how you got screwed on the Particle Trace conversion...
...by this point, you've broken out your tinfoil hat your wear over your tinfoil hat - and - that's never good.
The important level to shoot for is Level 15. At that level, you can craft everything there is to craft in a given school. At that point, you can actually start to produce endgame gear. How long does that take?
It also seems it will only take a year if you actually don't bother to craft stuff, since if you craft items, you get more crafting XP per minute than with the 20h project.
And before the change, you may have been up to Level 15 or 20 faster in one category - but you still would have the other categories to level.
But for comparison:
I have DOFFed for 2-3 years now, and there is only one character that is reasonable close to having maxed out. (E.g. only one or two categories not at maximum). But like with crafting, DOFFIng gets you stuff of value way before maxing it out.
Level 15, assuming they didn't change anything from Tribble, is 630,000 xp. Using only the 20 hour porject that gives 6,000 xp once a day, starting from 0 takes 105 days.
Crafting gives 600 xp an hour, no matter the project. If a project takes 1 hour, you get 600 xp. If it takes 3 hours, you get 1800 xp. At the rate of 600 xp an hour, it takes 1050 hours to get to level 15. That's 1050 Mark 6 projects, or 350 Mark X projects. So, you can play with those numbers. I calculated it out for running Mark 6 items, which only cost you common and uncommon materials. I also did not include the xp you get from crafting the components, so the real number will be a bit less, but using Mark 6 items (doesn't matter what) and assuming that you craft 4 items ever hour for 4 hours a day, you will be done in about 65 days, give or take. Assuming no dilithium to finish now. That will also cost you a fair number of materials. I ran the calculations for ground weapons. The numbers are below.
For my time, its not worth running around hoping random drops give me what I need, or farming story mission harvesting points.
Also, old system, using only projects, your first school would be done in 33 days about, second in 25 days (total 58), third in 25 days (total 83), fourth and later in 27 days (total 110, 137, 164, and 191).
New system, the first 3 in 105 days-ish, would actually be a bit more for the second and third, but I'm rounding. Then another 105 days for the last four schools for a total of 210 days. Old way was faster, though not by that much overall, I will grant.
Finally, Doffing gives you dilithium, EC, stuff you can use for starbase, etc. Crafting gives you mark 6-10 items. Mark 10 might be useful, everything else is vendor trash. So what is that worth, counting the new EC vaule decrease? not enough for me to bother with it. There are better ways to get EC. Like Doffing. And better ways to get Mark 11 gear, like story missions.
Overall. If this took 40 days with the 20 hour xp project, it would be worth it to go into crafting majorly. At 105 days, and in my view not worth the time and material cost to craft vendor trash to go faster, I'm only in this for the TR-116B which I will craft for some of my characters, and anyone else who I like, who wants one, and who brings me the materials.
The thing that's really annoying, is the thought process of - "Okay, so they actually want us to craft." One might be able to accept that at first blush, until as was pointed out - one starts to look into all the mats that will be required to do it that way. So perhaps one starts to think about doing Mk X instead of Mk VI or Mk VIII, and then you remember how you got screwed on the Particle Trace conversion...
...by this point, you've broken out your tinfoil hat your wear over your tinfoil hat - and - that's never good.
Yeah for once I agree with you. That's never good either.
What a ridiculous "fix". Does Cryptic really think that this means any long-term motivation? How annoying... I am very disappointed.
Hey Cryptic! If you think the longer a system may take for a player the longer the player will stay in the game pls invent something new that may take 50 or 60 years to complete. You have to invest in the future because many of us will reach the age of 90 or 100 :rolleyes:
I was planning, before this change, to basically become my fleet's crafting guy pretty much.
Now though...I still might, but it will take SO much longer. Even if I had unlimited resources, I would have to spend a TON of stuff on it all just to keep it going and get it done in some reasonable amount of time, it simply isn't worth it. I mean, if I am basically looking at the next 6 months to get all the crafting areas to level 15, instead of roughly 6 months to finally ALL of them to 20.
Hey...Cryptic, Geko, whoever, I don't care. Here's something to think about:
You know the Starbase system? That one thing that was a long-term grind that you put in two years ago* that apparently fleets weren't as far along in it as you thought? So that's why you haven't put in a new holding since the Spire?
GUESS WHAT?!?
People are gonna drag along on crafting over the many coming months because of how much it requires to get to any reasonable level at all. Except for...those who have the resources to do it already. JUST like most of the fleets who have maxed out many of their holdings, especially if they did it really fast and 'early on' as it were (like completing the Spire basically as fast as it possibly could be finished), then have nothing to grind.
Same thing applies here, those with stuff will finish it easily (and some even have), and those without will just drag along going extremely slowly because they simply don't have the time, money, etc to go at any reasonable speed.
I bet that even then, you'd just find a way to somehow blame the players...or at least I'm sure Geko would, considering how he seems to think of us.
Y'know, despite everything that has happened, I am gonna stick around until at least the second expansion (presuming that's even true, what can I really believe anymore), just to see what you can actually add to this game. I mean Zamorak above, Expansion 2 better be a gift from GOD with how things have been.
*As a side note, that would explain a lot. After all, one long-term grind for the group, now the individuals have their own personal long-term grind.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
In the devs' defence, I believe they expected the majority of people to get to level 15 in a few of the schools and the much smaller minority to go for 20 in all schools.
However, I think they majorly underestimated how many wanted 20 in all schools.
They've ballsed this up proper, in my opinion. There's no point in me spending owt on crafting if it takes years to craft decent stuff with any reasonable chance of getting decent mods.
Comments
If I wanted it now...I would be saying the current wait is too long..The current time it would take with the xp values we have now would be fine..I t would still take many months..You cannot give me a valid reason how that is wanting it now considering we get reps faster....
(But now it's to get the skill up in a reasonable time, rather than paying for special materials.)
I would like to think that the rich have something resembling brains. I know, that is idealistic and dumb. This kind of seems like spending enormous sums to have the option to paint your house green with a .005 reduction in the weather damage of your back deck. If the rich and famous want to throw their money away like that, then I'm not sure how they became rich in the first place, unless they are trust fund babies.
Woot, 1 year to complete some of the schools. Sounds like fun....are you kidding me?
1 a month is fair, multiple after a year is unjust
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
First pvp was ruined, now crafting.
Exploiters kirk, exploiters kirk. A lot who can throw billions away make more than they can ever get rid of thanks to stuff like the foundry exploit.
We waited 4 years for an obsolete crafting system to get overhauled.
Cryptic is simply projecting for the future by waiting 6.4 years until they revamp crafting again.
Then in 6.4 years, when crafting undergoes another iteration, there'll be an even bigger time-gate that allows you to max crafting in 8.2 years.
It also seems it will only take a year if you actually don't bother to craft stuff, since if you craft items, you get more crafting XP per minute than with the 20h project.
And before the change, you may have been up to Level 15 or 20 faster in one category - but you still would have the other categories to level.
But for comparison:
I have DOFFed for 2-3 years now, and there is only one character that is reasonable close to having maxed out. (E.g. only one or two categories not at maximum). But like with crafting, DOFFIng gets you stuff of value way before maxing it out.
So, by logging EVERY day, doing eSTF for mats, and crafting several items and the assignment, I can get it in one month ? Doing 1-2h of craft per day in STO, and only that will allow to reach me that goal before the game server stop working or the end of the world ?
Wow, that's awesome, where do I sign ?
[/sarcasm off]
I don't want the solution now. But I don't want the solution is 6.4 years either. But that's just me.
Anyway, have fun with your craft, the amount of components you are using and grinding everyday, I'll sell it, and buy the few items I want from crafter like you (most of them are unique after all). Thanks for doing the hard work for us, much appreciated.
I also think the will f us up later again.
I'm going to pass on the crafting system after this change. Years of projects for same level of gear, honestly i dont care if it was mk15, still not worth that much time.
Sure it is! Take a second mortgage on the house and buy crafting packs while spamming the Finish Now! button - you'll be able to keep the schedule they mentioned previously.
Ya, no. Not only No but HELL NO.
I think this will do before bedtime.
Heh, HELL NO doesn't do it justice...the comment that would do this justice would result in them contracting John de Lancie to deliver the ban (or more likely just result in our resident Q delivering it).
ohh come on now, sitting in zone chat answering questions, that's what the game is... right... right?
...by this point, you've broken out your tinfoil hat your wear over your tinfoil hat - and - that's never good.
Level 15, assuming they didn't change anything from Tribble, is 630,000 xp. Using only the 20 hour porject that gives 6,000 xp once a day, starting from 0 takes 105 days.
Crafting gives 600 xp an hour, no matter the project. If a project takes 1 hour, you get 600 xp. If it takes 3 hours, you get 1800 xp. At the rate of 600 xp an hour, it takes 1050 hours to get to level 15. That's 1050 Mark 6 projects, or 350 Mark X projects. So, you can play with those numbers. I calculated it out for running Mark 6 items, which only cost you common and uncommon materials. I also did not include the xp you get from crafting the components, so the real number will be a bit less, but using Mark 6 items (doesn't matter what) and assuming that you craft 4 items ever hour for 4 hours a day, you will be done in about 65 days, give or take. Assuming no dilithium to finish now. That will also cost you a fair number of materials. I ran the calculations for ground weapons. The numbers are below.
Magnesite (common) 3,150
Hydrazine gas (common) 2,100
Tritanium (uncommon) 6,300
Verteron particles (uncommon) 4,200
Hexafluorine gas (uncommon) 12,600
Thoron particles (uncommon) 12,600
If you run 16 projects a day, then each day you will need the following:
magnesite (common) 48
Hydrazine gas (common) 32
tritanium (uncommon) 96
verteron particles (uncommon) 64
hexafluorine gas (uncommon) 192
thoron particles (uncommon) 192
For my time, its not worth running around hoping random drops give me what I need, or farming story mission harvesting points.
Also, old system, using only projects, your first school would be done in 33 days about, second in 25 days (total 58), third in 25 days (total 83), fourth and later in 27 days (total 110, 137, 164, and 191).
New system, the first 3 in 105 days-ish, would actually be a bit more for the second and third, but I'm rounding. Then another 105 days for the last four schools for a total of 210 days. Old way was faster, though not by that much overall, I will grant.
Finally, Doffing gives you dilithium, EC, stuff you can use for starbase, etc. Crafting gives you mark 6-10 items. Mark 10 might be useful, everything else is vendor trash. So what is that worth, counting the new EC vaule decrease? not enough for me to bother with it. There are better ways to get EC. Like Doffing. And better ways to get Mark 11 gear, like story missions.
Overall. If this took 40 days with the 20 hour xp project, it would be worth it to go into crafting majorly. At 105 days, and in my view not worth the time and material cost to craft vendor trash to go faster, I'm only in this for the TR-116B which I will craft for some of my characters, and anyone else who I like, who wants one, and who brings me the materials.
Nouveau riche LTS member
Yeah for once I agree with you. That's never good either.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Yeah, you could do that the prepatch way too.
Just No.
I already hated the new crafting system, but was willing to give it a chance to win me over.
But this change.
Just No.
I will not touch this system now.
I will still play with the Foundry, but at this point other than that STO is dead to me.
Peace,
Great, now that you've said that the next revamp will be to somehow heavily timegate and monetize the Foundry.
At least they might pretend they care about the Foundry then. Maybe. Probably not.
You just put words to my greatest fear.
I just hope that Captain Geko stays the hell away from the Foundry.
Seriously.
Hey Cryptic! If you think the longer a system may take for a player the longer the player will stay in the game pls invent something new that may take 50 or 60 years to complete. You have to invest in the future because many of us will reach the age of 90 or 100 :rolleyes:
Now though...I still might, but it will take SO much longer. Even if I had unlimited resources, I would have to spend a TON of stuff on it all just to keep it going and get it done in some reasonable amount of time, it simply isn't worth it. I mean, if I am basically looking at the next 6 months to get all the crafting areas to level 15, instead of roughly 6 months to finally ALL of them to 20.
Hey...Cryptic, Geko, whoever, I don't care. Here's something to think about:
You know the Starbase system? That one thing that was a long-term grind that you put in two years ago* that apparently fleets weren't as far along in it as you thought? So that's why you haven't put in a new holding since the Spire?
GUESS WHAT?!?
People are gonna drag along on crafting over the many coming months because of how much it requires to get to any reasonable level at all. Except for...those who have the resources to do it already. JUST like most of the fleets who have maxed out many of their holdings, especially if they did it really fast and 'early on' as it were (like completing the Spire basically as fast as it possibly could be finished), then have nothing to grind.
Same thing applies here, those with stuff will finish it easily (and some even have), and those without will just drag along going extremely slowly because they simply don't have the time, money, etc to go at any reasonable speed.
I bet that even then, you'd just find a way to somehow blame the players...or at least I'm sure Geko would, considering how he seems to think of us.
Y'know, despite everything that has happened, I am gonna stick around until at least the second expansion (presuming that's even true, what can I really believe anymore), just to see what you can actually add to this game. I mean Zamorak above, Expansion 2 better be a gift from GOD with how things have been.
*As a side note, that would explain a lot. After all, one long-term grind for the group, now the individuals have their own personal long-term grind.
However, I think they majorly underestimated how many wanted 20 in all schools.
They've ballsed this up proper, in my opinion. There's no point in me spending owt on crafting if it takes years to craft decent stuff with any reasonable chance of getting decent mods.