True, although the poor Ambassador had a cruel real-life fate. A stagehand dropped the model which then broke and was never fixed. That's literally what happened.
and then they never bothered making a CGI model of it ether, just stupid.
a reasonable in universe explanation for lack of ambassador class is that they were years away from federation space, actually doing that deep space exploration we have yet to see any of, except on voyager, i guess.
even if they recalled them, the war might already be over befor they got back, and they would need an extensive overhaul or they would have faired even worse then the odessey did.
i figure when that fleet of deep space ambassador class were supposed to return home, was probably the same time the galaxy class was to be done beta testing, and have all the bugs worked out so they can confidently send them out on 15, 20 year deep space missions.
and then they never bothered making a CGI model of it ether, just stupid.
a reasonable in universe explanation for lack of ambassador class is that they were years away from federation space, actually doing that deep space exploration we have yet to see any of, except on voyager, i guess.
even if they recalled them, the war might already be over befor they got back, and they would need an extensive overhaul or they would have faired even worse then the odessey did.
i figure when that fleet of deep space ambassador class were supposed to return home, was probably the same time the galaxy class was to be done beta testing, and have all the bugs worked out so they can confidently send them out on 15, 20 year deep space missions.
I figure that the Ambassadors filled the Galaxy role in the other fleets because by DW there was probably only twn Galaxys in service at that time. so 2 per fleet that means 5 fleets had Galaxy. the rest Ambassadors and the sovie.
I figure that the Ambassadors filled the Galaxy role in the other fleets because by DW there was probably only twn Galaxys in service at that time. so 2 per fleet that means 5 fleets had Galaxy. the rest Ambassadors and the sovie.
I'm sure there were more than just ten Galaxy-class ships in the entire Federation fleet in the Dominion War. Unlike the Sovereign-class, which had a production run of only two known vessels (the prototype, and the Enterprise-E), there were several seen in fleet shots throughout the war.
Prior to the DW, there were 6 Galaxys in service and 6 in storage. Three of them were destroyed before the onset of the DW. Starfleet wouldn't be stupid enough to just leave the fleet with 3 Galaxys, or even 9. It's likely they stepped up production and built hundreds of these ships.
This is far from canonical, but look at the service numbers. USS Galaxy, the prototype, had the registry NCC-70637. USS Challenger had the registry NCC-71099. Subtracting numbers, that leaves 462 Galaxy-class vessels produced from 2363 to 237?. (actually 463. Enterprise-D didn't belong in that number range).
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there was no cgi ambassador. you never see it after they switch to cgi, period.
that whole 6+6 thing with the galaxy's was the state of things until wolf 359, at the LATEST. by the dominion war, the galaxy class was mass produced, any completed after the odyssey was destroyed were more then likely only partly complete, not totally filled out like the first 6 were. there had to be at least 50 by the time they retook DS9, to explain how densely they were packed into that 1 thrown together fleet.
You can see it on the YouTube versions. Just have to look closely and patiently.
Idk if there were more Galaxy's than ten. It's possible that Starfleet build Nebula's in high number since it was cheaper to construct. If that's the case then Nebulas filled in as the heavy cruisers of the fleets we don't see as well as the Ambassadors.
I think Starfleet build Nebulas and Galaxys in the same relation as they build Constitutions and Mirandas at their era.
Sure we can only speculate but i wouldn't say they build hundreds of galaxys, i rather think there where around 10-20 in and after the DW. The efford and complexity to build a Galaxy Class may not be so high as it was when it was new, but it's still comparable high i guess.
Regarding the missing Ambassadors, i have no explanation that would satisfy me completely. Sure some may have been on deep space assignments, but all of them?
I don't buy that, i rather think they where actually part of the Battlefleets in the DW, but we just didn't see them.
On the other hand there was a Ambassador Class ship in TNG even before Yesterdays Enterprise.
Captain Walker Keels ship the USS Horatio was supposed to be a Ambassador Class, it just wasn't on screen (TNG 1x25: "Conspiracy").
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
True, although the poor Ambassador had a cruel real-life fate. A stagehand dropped the model which then broke and was never fixed. That's literally what happened.
the model was also lost shortly after as they wanted to fix it and use it for the lakota on DS9 (sense the lakota was suppose to be refitted and changes to the model could of been written off as part of the refit)
Galaxy is tied as the biggest ship in Starfleet by DW and I think Galaxy Production initally stopped at the 6 and after Odyessey and the changing nature of the galaxy they started TRIBBLE production so in a few years there would only be 10 maybe 15 Galaxy's in service
This is right, the Tech Manual states that it was never intented to produce a large number of Galaxies and I can't imagine that changing, even with the WAAAAR around. According to the manual, the construction of the Enterprise-D, minus the early design phase mening counting from the first assembly of frame structures, took 13 years. Even if you streamline the process and make adjustments you wouldn't be able to get halfway done before the war was over. They scrambled a few empty Galaxies but those were already in construction, so something around 10-15 vessels seems reasonable.
Regarding the Ambassador, RL reasons aside, I personally don't think the Ambassador was produced in such large numbers as well. The Galaxy Class Project was approved around the time the Ent-C was lost. I don't think you build many of those heavy cruisers when you already plan on revolutionizing the whole Explorer scheme. They would have their share on ships, of course, but those were either off in deep space or probably back home to defend key systems. Remember, the Ambassador didn't really shine as a battleship as well.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
there where more then 10 on screen in those big fleet scene shown if you stop and count them all. i think high side was 20 ships total (including the 3 destroyed on screen and the prototype)
the initial 6 and then 6 in storage was only background info for the first season of TNG. it's probably safe to assume after the ent-D's first encounter with the borg thanks to Q starfleet at least finished the remaining 6 hulls and probably started production on more galaxies and nebulas so by the time the DW started up they had plenty of finished and unfinished hulls that could just be made space worthy (the "war" galaxies with the unfinished interiors)
this would of made 9 original galaxies and only about 8 new ones in various stages of completion. this would also explain some of the variations we saw on the "war" galaxies. some had double decker main shuttle bays some had the extra phaser arrays like the venture) and others with different designed necks
real world exploitation for these changes is the damage done tot he enterprise-D model form the season final
here is the changed shuttle bay you can see in some scenes clearly showing it larger then it use to be with 2 doors on top of each other. the producers them self's even said the galaxy carried the fighters in DS9 (not the dreadnought but the galaxy class)
this is also the USS Galaxy after it was hit by one of the cardassian orbital cannons. took out a chunk of the lower engineering hull and the neck. we also know she is part of battle group omega as of nemisis. this is the FIRST galaxy class vessel
there where more then 10 on screen in those big fleet scene shown if you stop and count them all. i think high side was 20 ships total (including the 3 destroyed on screen and the prototype)
the initial 6 and then 6 in storage was only background info for the first season of TNG. it's probably safe to assume after the ent-D's first encounter with the borg thanks to Q starfleet at least finished the remaining 6 hulls and probably started production on more galaxies and nebulas so by the time the DW started up they had plenty of finished and unfinished hulls that could just be made space worthy (the "war" galaxies with the unfinished interiors)
this would of made 9 original galaxies and only about 8 new ones in various stages of completion. this would also explain some of the variations we saw on the "war" galaxies. some had double decker main shuttle bays some had the extra phaser arrays like the venture) and others with different designed necks
real world exploitation for these changes is the damage done tot he enterprise-D model form the season final
here is the changed shuttle bay you can see in some scenes clearly showing it larger then it use to be with 2 doors on top of each other. the producers them self's even said the galaxy carried the fighters in DS9 (not the dreadnought but the galaxy class)
this is also the USS Galaxy after it was hit by one of the cardassian orbital cannons. took out a chunk of the lower engineering hull and the neck. we also know she is part of battle group omega as of nemisis. this is the FIRST galaxy class vessel
I think 10 is about the right number. again they only planed the 6 in the first run. and only changed that as war loomed. so they only had a few years to build combat worth spaceframe galaxys. the bulk of the fed fleets were Excels and Miranda's.
there where more then 10 on screen in those big fleet scene shown if you stop and count them all. i think high side was 20 ships total (including the 3 destroyed on screen and the prototype)
the initial 6 and then 6 in storage was only background info for the first season of TNG. it's probably safe to assume after the ent-D's first encounter with the borg thanks to Q starfleet at least finished the remaining 6 hulls and probably started production on more galaxies and nebulas so by the time the DW started up they had plenty of finished and unfinished hulls that could just be made space worthy (the "war" galaxies with the unfinished interiors)
this would of made 9 original galaxies and only about 8 new ones in various stages of completion. this would also explain some of the variations we saw on the "war" galaxies. some had double decker main shuttle bays some had the extra phaser arrays like the venture) and others with different designed necks
real world exploitation for these changes is the damage done tot he enterprise-D model form the season final
here is the changed shuttle bay you can see in some scenes clearly showing it larger then it use to be with 2 doors on top of each other. the producers them self's even said the galaxy carried the fighters in DS9 (not the dreadnought but the galaxy class)
this is also the USS Galaxy after it was hit by one of the cardassian orbital cannons. took out a chunk of the lower engineering hull and the neck. we also know she is part of battle group omega as of nemisis. this is the FIRST galaxy class vessel
Wow, impressive image.
I think it should be noted that although such a massive blow, the Galaxy keeps on fighting as if nothing would have happend. @devs: the emphasis here is "FIGHTING" (not sitting duck and getting one blow after another without being able to strike back. lol.)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
This is right, the Tech Manual states that it was never intented to produce a large number of Galaxies and I can't imagine that changing, even with the WAAAAR around. According to the manual, the construction of the Enterprise-D, minus the early design phase mening counting from the first assembly of frame structures, took 13 years. Even if you streamline the process and make adjustments you wouldn't be able to get halfway done before the war was over. They scrambled a few empty Galaxies but those were already in construction, so something around 10-15 vessels seems reasonable.
Regarding the Ambassador, RL reasons aside, I personally don't think the Ambassador was produced in such large numbers as well. The Galaxy Class Project was approved around the time the Ent-C was lost. I don't think you build many of those heavy cruisers when you already plan on revolutionizing the whole Explorer scheme. They would have their share on ships, of course, but those were either off in deep space or probably back home to defend key systems. Remember, the Ambassador didn't really shine as a battleship as well.
thats not quite right. and most certainly, the production was not limited, they were made as quickly as possible in the time they had, to explain all the galaxy in DS9, there was even a ton of them hanging around earth when voyager returned.
at least 3, if not all the first 6, were built as the ship was being designed from scratch. prototypes, built as their technology was developed. with 24th century fabrication methods, that include industrial transporters, i doubt it took more then a month to 3 months to build even a huge galaxy class after they had the process down. how many months did commander shelby say it would take to replace all the loses from wolf 359? we are talking about a star fleet 14k to 21k ships large here. 12? 20? thats ABSURDLY low numbers. a low production intention would still result in hundreds of ships in the class.
the ambassador didn't shine as a battleship? surely you jest, it had no competition wile it was top dog. how many warbirds did it take to destroy one? how many hits did it sustain? i doubt any new ambassador were built after about 2355 though.
thats not quite right. and most certainly, the production was not limited, they were made as quickly as possible in the time they had, to explain all the galaxy in DS9, there was even a ton of them hanging around earth when voyager returned.
at least 3, if not all the first 6, were built as the ship was being designed from scratch. prototypes, built as their technology was developed. with 24th century fabrication methods, that include industrial transporters, i doubt it took more then a month to 3 months to build even a huge galaxy class after they had the process down. how many months did commander shelby say it would take to replace all the loses from wolf 359? we are talking about a star fleet 14k to 21k ships large here. 12? 20? thats ABSURDLY low numbers. a low production intention would still result in hundreds of ships in the class.
the ambassador didn't shine as a battleship? surely you jest, it had no competition wile it was top dog. how many warbirds did it take to destroy one? how many hits did it sustain? i doubt any new ambassador were built after about 2355 though.
there is still time and resources. Galaxy is just too big to be produced quickly. I think what Shelby refered to was alot of smaller shiops. likely more Excels, Ambassadors and nebulas. and again there was a likely pause in production after the first 6 were built. events leading to DW caused them to get back into production thus why all DW Galaxys are only battle ready not fully kitted out unless they are Galaxy or Venture. Heck the reason Nebula's exist is because they are slightly cheaper and much easier to produce than a Galaxy
(...)the producers them self's even said the galaxy carried the fighters in DS9 (not the dreadnought but the galaxy class)
(...)
I'd like to see a source on that.
@ DDIS: I don't think you can speed up a process of over a decade into a few months. Industrial replicators and transporters are not magic and the bulk of work still has to be done manually by wielding together the pieces. I even substracted roughly a decade on planing off the construction. Even if they root out all the errors and nothing desastrous happens I highly doubt you could speed up contruction of a galaxy beyond a few years minimum. The whole process from planning to comissioning took 20 years - this is a number relevant to the sovy discussion as well. I doubt Starfleet is able to crank out ships like the Galaxy as if they are playing an RTS. Frigates and lighter cruisers maybe, that's the whole point of them.
But I probably chose wrong words for the Ambassadors performance. Sure, it outclassed Warbirds of that time, albeit it was stated that the defensive capabilities were rather underdeveloped (but forgive me, it's been a while since I watched the episode) and the main advantage was manoeuvreability over the enemy vessels.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I think 10 is about the right number. again they only planed the 6 in the first run. and only changed that as war loomed. so they only had a few years to build combat worth spaceframe galaxys. the bulk of the fed fleets were Excels and Miranda's.
thing is though it has to be more then 10 as there was 12 at one point on screen in the same place
i stick by the 17 during the war for a total of 20 if you add in the enterprise-D, yamato, and the odyssey which where destroyed before the war started
@ DDIS: I don't think you can speed up a process of over a decade into a few months. Industrial replicators and transporters are not magic and the bulk of work still has to be done manually by wielding together the pieces. I even substracted roughly a decade on planing off the construction. Even if they root out all the errors and nothing desastrous happens I highly doubt you could speed up contruction of a galaxy beyond a few years minimum. The whole process from planning to comissioning took 20 years - this is a number relevant to the sovy discussion as well. I doubt Starfleet is able to crank out ships like the Galaxy as if they are playing an RTS. Frigates and lighter cruisers maybe, that's the whole point of them.
I think his point was that as soon as the "beta" phase was over, the production became much more streamlined.
Personally i doubt that they where able to build 100s, but something between 10 and 20 after the destruction of the Odyssey and the end of the DW seems to be realistic IMO.
But I probably chose wrong words for the Ambassadors performance. Sure, it outclassed Warbirds of that time, albeit it was stated that the defensive capabilities were rather underdeveloped (but forgive me, it's been a while since I watched the episode) and the main advantage was manoeuvreability over the enemy vessels.
Those statements where made in comparison to the alternative universe Galaxy Class Battleship. And lets not forget that the Ent -C wasn't up to date to 24th century standards, so everything said about the Ent -C shouldn't be taken literally.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
@ DDIS: I don't think you can speed up a process of over a decade into a few months. Industrial replicators and transporters are not magic and the bulk of work still has to be done manually by wielding together the pieces. I even substracted roughly a decade on planing off the construction. Even if they root out all the errors and nothing desastrous happens I highly doubt you could speed up contruction of a galaxy beyond a few years minimum. The whole process from planning to comissioning took 20 years - this is a number relevant to the sovy discussion as well. I doubt Starfleet is able to crank out ships like the Galaxy as if they are playing an RTS. Frigates and lighter cruisers maybe, that's the whole point of them.
But I probably chose wrong words for the Ambassadors performance. Sure, it outclassed Warbirds of that time, albeit it was stated that the defensive capabilities were rather underdeveloped (but forgive me, it's been a while since I watched the episode) and the main advantage was manoeuvreability over the enemy vessels.
from way back when DS9 was airing in the old instant messenger chats they hosted. god i can't even think if you can get transcripts of those any more. it was many many moons.
also this is why the "war" galaxies only had 30% of there interiors they where completed enough to be space worthy and have weapons. rest of the ship was empty space. the only completed ones most likely where the remaining original 3 and the second 6 space frames
gentlemen, there is a difference between inventing a ship class, wile building several protoypes over a decade wile the technology behind the ship is literally being invented as its being installed, and stamping out copies once the creation of the class is done.
creating the galaxy class from scratch, it was what a 20 year process according to the guide? they did not build it out of off the self tech, like apparently the first generation of nebula class were, they were being mass produced as early as 2359. but make no mistake, they were not any smaller then a galaxy class, just squater, the actual volume would be nearly identical between the 2. it took 13 years to build the enterprise D because it was being designed at the same time. key factor, right here.
1-3 months, if the plans and materials necessary to build it aren't a hangup, thats how long it would take to build a galaxy class in 2365, on. 1 month, empty space frame and weapons only. if you run a fleet of 14k-21k ships, the galaxy classes size over other classes and its lower end production numbers would practically make it disappears in the margins of error. but its impact in a fleet battle proved to be the opposite of invisible.
and you have to keep in mind, you only ever saw MAYBE 1/10 of the entire starfleet in any one battle on DS9. and there were a dozen galaxy's in each fleet shot. do the math
I'm not convinced (and I'm sorry to derail this thread again, but I like discussing this stuff ), not even under all out war production. It took six years for the Ent-D hull to reach 95% completion. I think there is just a limit as to how quickly you can crank out a hull of this size and remember that hull materials cannot be replicated either. Even streamlining and going all out mass production of Galaxies you'd need in my opinion at least one or two years to get the hull and barebones internal systems ready. As much as I hate real-life comparissions, but it takes around five years to built a modern aircraft carrier ("Nimitz" class) with state-of-the-art technology and a ridiculous military budget to do so. A Galaxy Class is built in the far fictional future, but not only do construction tehcniques advance but the effort needed to construct such a vessel increases as well.
I am completely fine with scrambling of Galaxies that already were in production, but I am not convinced Starfleet would be able to construct a Galaxy from scratch until the war was over, especially since the capacities of the fleetyards would also be needed to replace the massive casaulties sustained.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm not convinced (and I'm sorry to derail this thread again, but I like discussing this stuff ), not even under all out war production. It took six years for the Ent-D hull to reach 95% completion. I think there is just a limit as to how quickly you can crank out a hull of this size and remember that hull materials cannot be replicated either. Even streamlining and going all out mass production of Galaxies you'd need in my opinion at least one or two years to get the hull and barebones internal systems ready. As much as I hate real-life comparissions, but it takes around five years to built a modern aircraft carrier ("Nimitz" class) with state-of-the-art technology and a ridiculous military budget to do so. A Galaxy Class is built in the far fictional future, but not only do construction tehcniques advance but the effort needed to construct such a vessel increases as well.
I am completely fine with scrambling of Galaxies that already were in production, but I am not convinced Starfleet would be able to construct a Galaxy from scratch until the war was over, especially since the capacities of the fleetyards would also be needed to replace the massive casaulties sustained.
exactly. Even not putting in all the science labs, conferences rooms, etc. hust crew quarters and enough systems that she can fight it will still take time. I will generously give them a year or more if fast. And again the initally built 6 Galaxys and stop. they never meant to build many of them so 3 active and 3 spares since the ship can split thus if they lose half they can quickly put the ship back in service. then with the Klingons on the rampage and growing threat from the dominion they changed there mind and activated the remaining spares and started production on more so that's why i lean to 10 more than 20 Galaxys during DW
I have to keep it real: the Enterprise D and the Galaxy-class starship as a whole is a ship that deserves to fail. The galaxy-class starship is not a warship, this ship does not prject power, or confidence, it does not deter a potential enemy from attacking.
The galaxy-class starship is about elegant dining, it is about scientific research, and exploration and diplomacy, it is a ship that has an arboretum, it has more holodecks than the Romulan Scimitar has torpedo launchers.
A simple solution would be to turn full customization back on for the Galaxy Dreadnought, if they have purchased all of these components for the Exploration retrofit the refit etc., and the Dreadnought, allow players to be able to turn off the Dreadnought graphics while keeping Dreadnought capabilities. Maybe it still show the laser cannon but the idea is you end up with a Dreadnought in a Galaxy's clothing.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Only way Starfleet would send out a Galaxy with 100 crew would be a ferry mission only after systems have been tested to a destination where crew are waiting for the ship.
Things break down. Especially in combat. Who's going to fix it? Get the ships defenses and propulsion back up and running?
the standard 1000 crew of a galaxy also includes the labs and civilian areas witch where not installed. this is excepted as the 30% interior. they simply did not need them a galaxy is able to run with only a single person with the computer running all other systems..
on the high side these stripped down ships probably only needed the crew size of an akira to function witch is 500 could of easily gotten a way with 100-300 as it just did not have the systems all that needed to be maintained was engines and weapons. and on some flight control
To Me that's where the extra bulk of the ship is going into but that doesn't mean that it's weapons aren't capable.
If the Enterprise D failed in a mission then any other ship would have been Rolfstomped easily.
DW Galaxy's were only 40% complete but yet fully combat capable and did not suffer a single loss during the war.
That 60% remaining went into what you are referring to.
that's why i refer to the rushed out ships as "war" galaxies. made for one thing combat every other system or room was not installed until after the war and they went into full service
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and then they never bothered making a CGI model of it ether, just stupid.
a reasonable in universe explanation for lack of ambassador class is that they were years away from federation space, actually doing that deep space exploration we have yet to see any of, except on voyager, i guess.
even if they recalled them, the war might already be over befor they got back, and they would need an extensive overhaul or they would have faired even worse then the odessey did.
i figure when that fleet of deep space ambassador class were supposed to return home, was probably the same time the galaxy class was to be done beta testing, and have all the bugs worked out so they can confidently send them out on 15, 20 year deep space missions.
I figure that the Ambassadors filled the Galaxy role in the other fleets because by DW there was probably only twn Galaxys in service at that time. so 2 per fleet that means 5 fleets had Galaxy. the rest Ambassadors and the sovie.
CBS had better make a remastered DS9 collection, so I can see that.
I'm sure there were more than just ten Galaxy-class ships in the entire Federation fleet in the Dominion War. Unlike the Sovereign-class, which had a production run of only two known vessels (the prototype, and the Enterprise-E), there were several seen in fleet shots throughout the war.
Prior to the DW, there were 6 Galaxys in service and 6 in storage. Three of them were destroyed before the onset of the DW. Starfleet wouldn't be stupid enough to just leave the fleet with 3 Galaxys, or even 9. It's likely they stepped up production and built hundreds of these ships.
This is far from canonical, but look at the service numbers. USS Galaxy, the prototype, had the registry NCC-70637. USS Challenger had the registry NCC-71099. Subtracting numbers, that leaves 462 Galaxy-class vessels produced from 2363 to 237?. (actually 463. Enterprise-D didn't belong in that number range).
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that whole 6+6 thing with the galaxy's was the state of things until wolf 359, at the LATEST. by the dominion war, the galaxy class was mass produced, any completed after the odyssey was destroyed were more then likely only partly complete, not totally filled out like the first 6 were. there had to be at least 50 by the time they retook DS9, to explain how densely they were packed into that 1 thrown together fleet.
I think Starfleet build Nebulas and Galaxys in the same relation as they build Constitutions and Mirandas at their era.
Sure we can only speculate but i wouldn't say they build hundreds of galaxys, i rather think there where around 10-20 in and after the DW. The efford and complexity to build a Galaxy Class may not be so high as it was when it was new, but it's still comparable high i guess.
Regarding the missing Ambassadors, i have no explanation that would satisfy me completely. Sure some may have been on deep space assignments, but all of them?
I don't buy that, i rather think they where actually part of the Battlefleets in the DW, but we just didn't see them.
On the other hand there was a Ambassador Class ship in TNG even before Yesterdays Enterprise.
Captain Walker Keels ship the USS Horatio was supposed to be a Ambassador Class, it just wasn't on screen (TNG 1x25: "Conspiracy").
the model was also lost shortly after as they wanted to fix it and use it for the lakota on DS9 (sense the lakota was suppose to be refitted and changes to the model could of been written off as part of the refit)
Regarding the Ambassador, RL reasons aside, I personally don't think the Ambassador was produced in such large numbers as well. The Galaxy Class Project was approved around the time the Ent-C was lost. I don't think you build many of those heavy cruisers when you already plan on revolutionizing the whole Explorer scheme. They would have their share on ships, of course, but those were either off in deep space or probably back home to defend key systems. Remember, the Ambassador didn't really shine as a battleship as well.
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the initial 6 and then 6 in storage was only background info for the first season of TNG. it's probably safe to assume after the ent-D's first encounter with the borg thanks to Q starfleet at least finished the remaining 6 hulls and probably started production on more galaxies and nebulas so by the time the DW started up they had plenty of finished and unfinished hulls that could just be made space worthy (the "war" galaxies with the unfinished interiors)
this would of made 9 original galaxies and only about 8 new ones in various stages of completion. this would also explain some of the variations we saw on the "war" galaxies. some had double decker main shuttle bays some had the extra phaser arrays like the venture) and others with different designed necks
real world exploitation for these changes is the damage done tot he enterprise-D model form the season final
here is the changed shuttle bay you can see in some scenes clearly showing it larger then it use to be with 2 doors on top of each other. the producers them self's even said the galaxy carried the fighters in DS9 (not the dreadnought but the galaxy class)
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l327/encia/Star%20Trek/M_G2_Shuttle.jpg
this is also the USS Galaxy after it was hit by one of the cardassian orbital cannons. took out a chunk of the lower engineering hull and the neck. we also know she is part of battle group omega as of nemisis. this is the FIRST galaxy class vessel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/Alyeska/Star%20Trek/GCSImpulse4.jpg
I think 10 is about the right number. again they only planed the 6 in the first run. and only changed that as war loomed. so they only had a few years to build combat worth spaceframe galaxys. the bulk of the fed fleets were Excels and Miranda's.
Wow, impressive image.
I think it should be noted that although such a massive blow, the Galaxy keeps on fighting as if nothing would have happend.
@devs: the emphasis here is "FIGHTING"
(not sitting duck and getting one blow after another without being able to strike back. lol.)
thats not quite right. and most certainly, the production was not limited, they were made as quickly as possible in the time they had, to explain all the galaxy in DS9, there was even a ton of them hanging around earth when voyager returned.
at least 3, if not all the first 6, were built as the ship was being designed from scratch. prototypes, built as their technology was developed. with 24th century fabrication methods, that include industrial transporters, i doubt it took more then a month to 3 months to build even a huge galaxy class after they had the process down. how many months did commander shelby say it would take to replace all the loses from wolf 359? we are talking about a star fleet 14k to 21k ships large here. 12? 20? thats ABSURDLY low numbers. a low production intention would still result in hundreds of ships in the class.
the ambassador didn't shine as a battleship? surely you jest, it had no competition wile it was top dog. how many warbirds did it take to destroy one? how many hits did it sustain? i doubt any new ambassador were built after about 2355 though.
there is still time and resources. Galaxy is just too big to be produced quickly. I think what Shelby refered to was alot of smaller shiops. likely more Excels, Ambassadors and nebulas. and again there was a likely pause in production after the first 6 were built. events leading to DW caused them to get back into production thus why all DW Galaxys are only battle ready not fully kitted out unless they are Galaxy or Venture. Heck the reason Nebula's exist is because they are slightly cheaper and much easier to produce than a Galaxy
I'd like to see a source on that.
@ DDIS: I don't think you can speed up a process of over a decade into a few months. Industrial replicators and transporters are not magic and the bulk of work still has to be done manually by wielding together the pieces. I even substracted roughly a decade on planing off the construction. Even if they root out all the errors and nothing desastrous happens I highly doubt you could speed up contruction of a galaxy beyond a few years minimum. The whole process from planning to comissioning took 20 years - this is a number relevant to the sovy discussion as well. I doubt Starfleet is able to crank out ships like the Galaxy as if they are playing an RTS. Frigates and lighter cruisers maybe, that's the whole point of them.
But I probably chose wrong words for the Ambassadors performance. Sure, it outclassed Warbirds of that time, albeit it was stated that the defensive capabilities were rather underdeveloped (but forgive me, it's been a while since I watched the episode) and the main advantage was manoeuvreability over the enemy vessels.
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thing is though it has to be more then 10 as there was 12 at one point on screen in the same place
i stick by the 17 during the war for a total of 20 if you add in the enterprise-D, yamato, and the odyssey which where destroyed before the war started
Personally i doubt that they where able to build 100s, but something between 10 and 20 after the destruction of the Odyssey and the end of the DW seems to be realistic IMO.
Those statements where made in comparison to the alternative universe Galaxy Class Battleship. And lets not forget that the Ent -C wasn't up to date to 24th century standards, so everything said about the Ent -C shouldn't be taken literally.
from way back when DS9 was airing in the old instant messenger chats they hosted. god i can't even think if you can get transcripts of those any more. it was many many moons.
also this is why the "war" galaxies only had 30% of there interiors they where completed enough to be space worthy and have weapons. rest of the ship was empty space. the only completed ones most likely where the remaining original 3 and the second 6 space frames
creating the galaxy class from scratch, it was what a 20 year process according to the guide? they did not build it out of off the self tech, like apparently the first generation of nebula class were, they were being mass produced as early as 2359. but make no mistake, they were not any smaller then a galaxy class, just squater, the actual volume would be nearly identical between the 2. it took 13 years to build the enterprise D because it was being designed at the same time. key factor, right here.
1-3 months, if the plans and materials necessary to build it aren't a hangup, thats how long it would take to build a galaxy class in 2365, on. 1 month, empty space frame and weapons only. if you run a fleet of 14k-21k ships, the galaxy classes size over other classes and its lower end production numbers would practically make it disappears in the margins of error. but its impact in a fleet battle proved to be the opposite of invisible.
and you have to keep in mind, you only ever saw MAYBE 1/10 of the entire starfleet in any one battle on DS9. and there were a dozen galaxy's in each fleet shot. do the math
I am completely fine with scrambling of Galaxies that already were in production, but I am not convinced Starfleet would be able to construct a Galaxy from scratch until the war was over, especially since the capacities of the fleetyards would also be needed to replace the massive casaulties sustained.
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exactly. Even not putting in all the science labs, conferences rooms, etc. hust crew quarters and enough systems that she can fight it will still take time. I will generously give them a year or more if fast. And again the initally built 6 Galaxys and stop. they never meant to build many of them so 3 active and 3 spares since the ship can split thus if they lose half they can quickly put the ship back in service. then with the Klingons on the rampage and growing threat from the dominion they changed there mind and activated the remaining spares and started production on more so that's why i lean to 10 more than 20 Galaxys during DW
The galaxy-class starship is about elegant dining, it is about scientific research, and exploration and diplomacy, it is a ship that has an arboretum, it has more holodecks than the Romulan Scimitar has torpedo launchers.
This picture best represents the Galaxy-class starship as it is truly is: http://www.thecooperestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/CooperEstateElegant-dining.jpg
And this YouTube video best represents what the Galaxy-class starship will never be: http://youtu.be/i0-EvPTxPr8
The Galaxy-class ship is not a warship, it is a glorified grain transport with high warp capacity and a sophisticated sensor suite.
the standard 1000 crew of a galaxy also includes the labs and civilian areas witch where not installed. this is excepted as the 30% interior. they simply did not need them a galaxy is able to run with only a single person with the computer running all other systems..
on the high side these stripped down ships probably only needed the crew size of an akira to function witch is 500 could of easily gotten a way with 100-300 as it just did not have the systems all that needed to be maintained was engines and weapons. and on some flight control
that's why i refer to the rushed out ships as "war" galaxies. made for one thing combat every other system or room was not installed until after the war and they went into full service