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A Proper Solution to Powercreep
sarcasmdetector
Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
1. Get rid of the current "Normal" STFs, the current Elite STFs will now be designated Normal.
2. A significantly buffed version of STFs will now be the Elite Tier. These will be at least as difficult as HOE, or go up to 4x-5x the difficulty of current ESTFs.
Difficulty increase will include increase damage and HP, and improved AI tactics such as use of TT, Attack Patterns, cross healing, target focusing, etc...
This new Elite tier will be locked behind an Accolade system.
3. To unlock the queue for this new STF tier you will need to do one of the following:
a) Run 5 to 10 normal STF and DPS over 20k in each one.
Run 5 to 10 normal STFs and do over 2k-3k OUTBOUND HPS in each one.
c) Run 5 to 10 normal STFs and soak up 300k+ of damage in each one,
d) Run 5 to 10 normal STFs and CC/debuff an X amount of targets for each run.
4. Increase the reward for the new difficulty tier. Add mk XIII/XIV items and/or unique/uber rare Gold coloured drops.
5. ???
6. Profit.
Refinement Edit:
The tier unlock system can be monetized and be made fair to non-min/maxers.
Make it based on the commendation system. Each track would need 1000XP to unlock. each time you complete an STF and meet the requirements of a,b,c, and/or d you would get 100XP in a particular track..
a C-store item would be available that has a bonus XP pool and grants +25% XP gain.
XP gained over 1000 could be turned in for a reward box that has random marks or uber rare items that would normally drop from the new tier's runs. ex: 200 Omega marks or 1 VR mk XIII item.
Clarification Edit:
powercreep is already in the game, you cannot take it away without seriously hurting the game and possibly even killing it.
there are a lot of players in the game who can get high DPS, who are godmode healers, who can tank an entire STF all by themselves; but that kind of performance is really meaningless because of how easy the content is.
one solution would be to nerf everything that gives players an advantage...
another solution, like what i am suggesting, would be to increase the difficulty of the content to match the current performance curve of powerhouse players.
the merit gates are there for new players, veteran players will be able to unlock it very quickly because most of them are already at that level. the point of the merit gates would be to stop fresh level 50s from jumping straight into the most difficult content and getting roflstomped.
the increased difficulty of PvE will now stop even veteran players from breezing through it. This is the main point of my suggested solution. Players will have to step up their game, work in a team, stratergize and use tactics, and gasp! communicate with others in order to complete the content.
For example i'm talking about an ISE that is at least as difficult as HOE on the low end, but preferable even twice or 3 times as hard.
yes it will be possible to game the system and bypass the merit gates, but then the system will bitchslap the bypasser back to noobhood.
As for the reward types, i was just citing examples. because the risk is being increased, the reward for those risks needs to be worthwhile.
2. A significantly buffed version of STFs will now be the Elite Tier. These will be at least as difficult as HOE, or go up to 4x-5x the difficulty of current ESTFs.
Difficulty increase will include increase damage and HP, and improved AI tactics such as use of TT, Attack Patterns, cross healing, target focusing, etc...
This new Elite tier will be locked behind an Accolade system.
3. To unlock the queue for this new STF tier you will need to do one of the following:
a) Run 5 to 10 normal STF and DPS over 20k in each one.
Run 5 to 10 normal STFs and do over 2k-3k OUTBOUND HPS in each one.c) Run 5 to 10 normal STFs and soak up 300k+ of damage in each one,
d) Run 5 to 10 normal STFs and CC/debuff an X amount of targets for each run.
4. Increase the reward for the new difficulty tier. Add mk XIII/XIV items and/or unique/uber rare Gold coloured drops.
5. ???
6. Profit.
Refinement Edit:
The tier unlock system can be monetized and be made fair to non-min/maxers.
Make it based on the commendation system. Each track would need 1000XP to unlock. each time you complete an STF and meet the requirements of a,b,c, and/or d you would get 100XP in a particular track..
a C-store item would be available that has a bonus XP pool and grants +25% XP gain.
XP gained over 1000 could be turned in for a reward box that has random marks or uber rare items that would normally drop from the new tier's runs. ex: 200 Omega marks or 1 VR mk XIII item.
Clarification Edit:
powercreep is already in the game, you cannot take it away without seriously hurting the game and possibly even killing it.
there are a lot of players in the game who can get high DPS, who are godmode healers, who can tank an entire STF all by themselves; but that kind of performance is really meaningless because of how easy the content is.
one solution would be to nerf everything that gives players an advantage...
another solution, like what i am suggesting, would be to increase the difficulty of the content to match the current performance curve of powerhouse players.
the merit gates are there for new players, veteran players will be able to unlock it very quickly because most of them are already at that level. the point of the merit gates would be to stop fresh level 50s from jumping straight into the most difficult content and getting roflstomped.
the increased difficulty of PvE will now stop even veteran players from breezing through it. This is the main point of my suggested solution. Players will have to step up their game, work in a team, stratergize and use tactics, and gasp! communicate with others in order to complete the content.
For example i'm talking about an ISE that is at least as difficult as HOE on the low end, but preferable even twice or 3 times as hard.
yes it will be possible to game the system and bypass the merit gates, but then the system will bitchslap the bypasser back to noobhood.
As for the reward types, i was just citing examples. because the risk is being increased, the reward for those risks needs to be worthwhile.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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If anyone reading this knows about Hive Onslaught, it rewards teamwork and some specific ship types, and it is very rewarding and really validates different types of people.
Sounds like 4) avoided the horrors of EDCs
Oh, and maybe people will actually communicate (because they have to)...
...nah
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your solution to solve power creep is adding MORE powerful itens?
also wasn't target focusing removed precisely because it was nearly impossible to tank?
No.
You can do either DPS, or Heal, or Tank, or CC/Debuffed.
reread what i wrote and don't skip point b,c, or d because you got mad at point a.
It's too bad that the community couldn't rise to the occasion if it was implemented
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
yeah, but that is why there are multiple gate options.
Actually. You have a prerequisites stating you need to complete all roles to unlock. I personally like that massive list...I'd be all over it.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
are you sure about that?
To unlock the queue for this new STF tier you will need to do the following:
I quote.
The way you had it written made it seem like you have to do all of them.
The quote up there is " To unlock the queue for this new STF tier you will need to do one of the following:" With one of bolded. I don't know how you missed that. You only have to do one of them, and it's clearly stated.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
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He just edited it and fixed it. It was not there originally.
You could then try to complete the other 3 in order to get the remaining accolades.
20k is fairly easy to get for a tactically oriented character. Tract c an d would actually be the easiest to complete.
The merit gates will have to be somewhat difficult to complete because the tier they are unlocking are going to significantly more difficult that the previous tier.
1)The devs can redesign the game. For this to really account for power creep this solution has to be applied to all end game content not just STFs as the OP suggested. To avoid the content becoming a DPS slog fest and remain meaningful and fun when played as intended the devs can't simply raise the stats of enemies or add more of them to existing groups. They would have to improve the AI or find new ways to throw old enemies at us and essentially remake the missions from scratch. This means the devs have to invest serious time and would prevent us from getting a lot of something else. New players who are struggling will also be too far underpowered to have a chance to learn so the redesign would likely have to be taken all they back though the story content so the leaning curve doesn't become a wall at end game.
2) Another option is to nerf the potential gains from min maxing so that having a build that hits 10k DPS is something special again. Then all the existing content remains valid and the learning curve stays more in line with that of a casual game as this really is. The problem is that people will become extremely bent out of shape from becoming weaker as we saw from the S9 changes from the rep system.
3) The third option is to let the changes to the rep system of season 9 play out. New content likely wont be effected nearly as much by power creep and it doesn't require a massive amount of resources to improve what we already have in lieu of giving us more than what we have now. Then old content can gradually be updated or replaced as the growth of the game dictates.
My engineer captain is tactically oriented (minus A2B) her Fleet Excel reaches 10k, her 'spam-venger' gets to 13k (admittedly these are solo figures and would be augmented by a team of APB users.) Admittedly I haven't got matching builds for my tac toon...
If your on a team with someone getting 20k DPS and your not that person you wont get option C because your not gonna be the one getting shot at. But option D would still be easy. In fact it would be so easy even then that it completely undermines the point of having an unlockable queue because any idiot that can spam abilities regardless of their effectiveness would get past. That option could not exist.
I've tested this with my friends. an 10k DPS aggro tank with 6 points in threat and 2x +TH console was able to hold aggro from me doing 27k DPS with 0 points threat and no -TH consoles.
Final damage in was 400k > for the aggro tank and ~100k for myself, 60K of that was me snuggling up to 2 cube warp breaches.
A fair point about tract D. this obviously would need to be polished/refined. maybe factor in how much damage was done a CCed target, or how much extra damage was done to enemies due to your debuffing.
an alternative would be to fold D into A,b, and C. example: if you did a certain amount of CC/debuff while trying to DPS, heal, or tank you would get a small bonus to your tract XP reward.
Uhh, you can easially take in most of the damage while doing 10-12k if you're setup up to tank. I've flown with a group that outside of me, did 100k dps, while I was doing 12, and still took the majority of all incoming damage. Without even using attract fire.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Hrmm, it's a curious list of options. Can't really tell how D) would be measured, hrmm. I'm taking it that
Hrmm, let me take a look at my last 9 parses for my guys...more or less just to look. Can't look at D) though, so just the rest. Will split B out between just Heals and the "OUTBOUND HPS" with the OHPS first...
The (%, rank) isn't a horn tooting thing by any means - it's just showing where those numbers fit in with the average PUG groups that I run. None of the actual numbers themselves are really any good - just average if that.
Vegar, Eng, Marauder #2
A) 5.9k DPS (20.4%, 3rd)
B1) 116k Heals Out (94.4%, 1st), 265 HPS
B2) 402.6k Heals (60.2%, 1st), 921 HPS
C) 525.2k Damage Taken (54.7%, 1st)
Willard the Rat, Sci, Fleet T'varo
A) 8.1k DPS (38.2%, 1st)
B1) 84k Heals Out (76.5%, 1st), 135 HPS
B2) 361.7k Heals (51.7%, 1st), 574 HPS
C) 312.7k Damage Taken (26.3%, 1st)
Rave, Sci, Kar'Fi
A) 6.9k DPS (32.8%, 1st)
B1) 0 Heals Out (n/a, n/a), n/a (only crosshealing done was somebody's Nimbus tossing me a HE, lol)
B2) 311k Heals (46.6%, 1st), 515 HPS
C) 470.6k Damage Taken (36.8%, 1st)
Mysk, Sci, Varanus
A) 4.1k DPS (16.5%, 3rd)
B1) 37.7k Heals Out (23.3%, 3rd), 74 HPS
B2) 299.5k Heals (46.9%, 1st), 584 HPS
C) 534.1k Damage Taken (49.8%, 1st)
Maal, Eng, Mogh
A) 6.7k DPS (23.4%, 2nd)
B1) 23k Heals Out (100%, 1st), 51 HPS
B2) 190.6k Heals (29.1%, 2nd), 418 HPS
C) 218k Damage Taken (22.8%, 2nd)
Vegar, Eng, Marauder #1
A) 4.4k DPS (15.5%, 3rd)
B1) 170.1k Heals Out (94.8%, 1st), 404 HPS
B2) 479.3k Heals (67.5%, 1st), 1125 HPS
C) 344.3k Damage Taken (38.1%, 1st)
Nivuh, Tac, B'rel
A) 5.6k DPS (19.9%, 2nd)
B1) 0 Heals Out (0.0%, 4th/5th), n/a
B2) 201.1k Heals (22.8%, 2nd), 469 HPS
C) 268.7k Damage Taken (18.8%, 3rd)
Venit, Tac, Mirror Qin
A) 8.5k DPS (26.4%, 2nd)
B1) 38.4k Heals Out (80.2%, 1st), 96 HPS
B2) 136.4k Heals (21.5%, 2nd), 339 HPS
C) 165.6k Damage Taken (17%, 2nd)
Kopor, Tac, Guramba
A) 5.8k DPS (26.2%, 1st)
B1) 0 Heals Out (0.0%, 2nd-5th), n/a
B2) 259.7k Heals (44.1%, 1st), 460 HPS
C) 446k Damage Taken (39.6%, 1st)
So uh, the first thing that comes to mind is - well, these are PUG runs. Should they count toward running Elite? Should Elite be something you can PUG? That you can PUG Elite...doesn't that point to something being wrong with Elite? So should the gate to Elite involve PUG runs?
And uh, the second thing that came to mind after that was - well, premades could easily game the system to get into Elite. Take turns tanking, everybody gets in.
Third thing that came to mind was that PUGs would see that as the easiest option to get better rewards and everybody would show up in tanks...and...lol, the fail factor on the optional would never be higher as folks fought over trying to take the most damage, heh.
Fourth thing that came to mind was the HPS - how did you get that number? Between even accidental self-healing and the rest, there's not going to be that much damage to heal cause the mobs just don't do that much damage.
Fifth and final thing that came to mind was how the folks in the Elite versions would feel having all the folks showing up with their 1-2k DPS boats, because they got into Elite by fudging the tank gate?
I can speak to that. I'm a tank for normal PvE content, and my average healing, between self and team healing is 2k, minimum. If there was a dedicated healer, it would be no problem in any of the runs I've been in to hit 3k or more, especially since the healer is going to be unlikely to draw the aggro themselves.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Build questions? Look here!
This isn't a solution to power creep at all...
perhaps the magnitude of requirement to unlock each merit gate can be modified.
300k damage in seems low, perhaps 500k+
healing wise, perhaps heal a minimum of 3 different people for a total of X amount.
the other thing is that the merit gate is there for a reason. it would be the minimum standard required to even have a chance at completing the content.
if you game the system and came in to a new elite STF unable to DPS, tank, or heal, you just end up squished. i'm talking about increasing the difficulty by a factor of 4 or 5 times.
My main point if they take ne thing else away from whats left of the player comunity it will kill the game......so i would be in favor of new builds other then the a2b and warp core set up flat out power creep means........saddly we need new build stlyes that are just as effective and u will see more diff types of power creep that would be interesting then u would have a power creep v power creep..........
at the end i want to see my oponents as strong as i am for this to happen with out hurting ne players power to the noobs .......
Flat out i think the veterans players would enjoy the challenge of killing these over power noobs then skill would come back in to it power creep v power creep allso we wouldnt offend the older players bye nerfing there build.... stop takeing away power let it flow
This, I could agree with. Not saying normals should be removed, but I'd have no problem if they were.
HSE isn't difficult, it's just broken and the Borg spam 1-shot abilities. It's a matter of luck and RNG. I like more difficult stuff, but not that kind of difficult.
...Because we need more health walls. A dev somewhere sometime once stated that they could create better NPC AI, but people would cry about it. I'm not against this point here, but it's not happening (nor are any of your suggestions).
That's a bad idea to begin with...
I'd talk about people who aren't able to any of these (let alone multiple times), but I don't feeling like bothering to.
EDIT: The post below me reminded me of the other thing - the fact that people will just whine about it instead of trying to think of how to do it.
And once you do that, all XII/lower quality items will be null, and with this fresh load of power creep, will start shredding the new "elites" just as fast as the old ones.
???
How?
I'd say these were a good idea, if we weren't already talking about something ridiculous.
How does making it harder force people think? I mean the path of least resistance is to whine about things being too difficult and that it should be nerfed. Look at what happened to the original STF's they were split into space and ground and if you wanted to complete it you had to know what to do in both halves which in my opinion they should have left alone or at least included as an option.
If you want a harder mission hope that they get designed and published without the cakewalk crowd complaining that it can not be completed because they have to think about what to do or at least listen to others.
Cryptic designed this game to be casual friendly and that means cakewalk easy for some people. I consider myself a part of the casual crowd I mean I get into the game maybe once a week and then only to blow up starships. Do I want the current elite to become normal, no, and not because I want it to stay a cakewalk but I do not want the frustration of having some elitist jerk dropping a thor shot on me because I slowed him down 30 seconds
thor shot is a shadowrun pen and paper reference to an orbital mass driver strike on a planet bound target.
pass it on .......STOP TAKEING AWAY FROM PLAYERS...........
I just can't picture it. Unless it's a case of talking padded/overhealing, cause the mobs just don't put anywhere near the kind of DPS for that kind of healing.