I do agree with everything you said. Of course our Community mods are only doing their job in the confines of the current forum rules. Perhaps you might want to start another thread asking for formites opinion on changing the forum rules, however, somehow I don't think PWE will make any changes - would be an interesting topic though.
In this case - the screen shot that I replied to earlier really should have been sent to a GM by the poster - along with a description of the offending behavior - my bad for playing into the naming and shaming game.
Perhaps a Thread in the gameplay "bugs" section should be made telling the dev's to disable all deployable powers on Risa? (with the reasons why)
P.S - Did you see the new video made by a member of a certain fleet - who shall remain "nameless" - that was specifically mocking stoleviathian99 and another fellow?
The problem is this:
We can lobby for rules changes. But we are one game.
And at the end of the day, certain posters are very adept at getting threads closed and framing things in a way to get sympathy from passers by.
It's like the old "Mommy, he's making faces at me" game siblings play on road trips. The aggressor is usually very good at disguising their behavior and the victim has no patience or desire to pretend to be reasonable. But parents fail when they fall into that whole "I'm going to turn this car around"/"Both of you be quiet!" mentality. And that's where I see devs and mods as being stuck.
People are too conflict averse. People in discussions of sensitive topics (religion, politics, current events) always have this false appeal to balance where they blame both sides for things that they don't care enough to get involved in. It's almost never "both sides" in anything though. Both sides may have faults but they're different faults and treating it like one big problem that everyone is contributing to hinders solutions and creates false equivalencies. Even when both sides are at fault for something, it's rarely the same fault and trying to create an equivalency is just avoiding a problem.
All game forums, not just PWE since everyone blames them for everything, uses the no naming and shaming. The main reason being that even if they were "cheating" the forum moderators have no power to make that determination or take action inside the game, that is the developer's choice.
So to that I say, if you don't like that rule, stop posting and cluttering up the forums. Now back on topic, I do agree with the OP that social zones should not have personal powers activate. And I will continue to bombard the suggestions section with this until they implement this.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
All game forums, not just PWE since everyone blames them for everything, uses the no naming and shaming. The main reason being that even if they were "cheating" the forum moderators have no power to make that determination or take action inside the game, that is the developer's choice.
So to that I say, if you don't like that rule, stop posting and cluttering up the forums. Now back on topic, I do agree with the OP that social zones should not have personal powers activate. And I will continue to bombard the suggestions section with this until they implement this.
Well, look, what if someone's issue is not with isolated bugs/exploits but with clear, repeated, and organized use of them to harass other players?
How much effort would it be to disband problem fleets and delete their chat channels, destroying bank assets and fleet holdings? And even then only when they cross a critical threshold and receive warnings.
It would at the very least destroy the leverage such groups hold.
I do not believe for one second that anyone in this thread should be taken seriously or given more than an eyeblink's worth of thought.
Starting with me, of course. Since I am posting here primarily to stir the pot. I like a good conflict as much as the next fellow. But I only consider it a good conflict if all involved parties don't twist their viewpoints like an earthworm on a hot sidewalk and don't have some hidden agenda which is what they're really after.
Conflict should also be over something important. Something that matters. Something where someone's existence or culture are hanging in the balance. You know there are countries where even as you read this post it is raining bombs.
Yet here we are. Wasting time arguing back and forth about something in an Internet game which we're supposed to be playing for fun. First World problems, eh?
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
The survivors of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, the 332nd Fighter Group and the 477th Bombardment Group called to say that you have no idea what you are talking about. They were actually there and they were hated, despised, and treated like sub-humans by most of the very same soldiers that were fighting for everyones freedom and equality.
That's cute .
You know who else was in that war ?
Gene Roddenberry (creator of Star Trek), James Doohan ("Scotty") , DeForest Kelley ("Dr.McCoy"), Mark Lenard ("Sarek"), and Matt Jefferies (Star Trek designer) .
And it does not take a genius to figure out what these men would think of TRIBBLE copy cats trolling players in a Star Trek game & forum ... -- all the while being "within the rules" -- rules that I see as being enforced pretty arbitrarily ... , as said Fleet has been named plenty of times without any such deep moderation as seen in this thread .
One small problem with that bit .
Prior complaints against said fleet were put into question -- namely "screenshot or it didn't happen" .
I refer to harassing players @ Drozana .
Now that a screenshot is provided , and again multiple player report the occurrence , and it get's "moderated" .
(still can be seen on the Reddit forums tho)
Think of it like this:
People can't post screenshots of known scammers and their associated logs.
People can't post screenshots of known erotic roleplayers and their mis-whispered filth in local or zone chat and their associated logs.
People can't post proof of death threats of supposed forthcoming and upright players and their associated logs.
People can't post spur-of-the-moment whisper 'exchanges' of literally a user flipping their handle at a party and gauding them into trying to call them nasty things back, as if this gauding will succeed in drawing TOS-breaches of their own, and their associated logs.
And people like you, meanwhile, can't breach the still unwritten rule of naming and shaming either.
____GREAT LEADERS LET THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
People can't post screenshots of known scammers and their associated logs.
People can't post screenshots of known erotic roleplayers and their mis-whispered filth in local or zone chat and their associated logs.
People can't post proof of death threats of supposed forthcoming and upright players and their associated logs.
People can't post spur-of-the-moment whisper 'exchanges' of literally a user flipping their handle at a party and gauding them into trying to call them nasty things back, as if this gauding will succeed in drawing TOS-breaches of their own, and their associated logs.
And people like you, meanwhile, can't breach the still unwritten rule of naming and shaming either.
I think it's a written rule, actually, and that's part of what we're debating.
Erotic roleplay, filth, death threats, etc. would all be prevented by other rules from being posted, without naming and shaming needing a specific rule. There are rules against mature, violent, profane, political, etc. posts and those would stand without a naming and shaming provision.
All naming and shaming does as a rule is protect exploiters and griefers.
And it does not take a genius to figure out what these men would think of TRIBBLE copy cats trolling players in a Star Trek game & forum ...
And since you find invoking such persons as "equal to your epic struggle against online griefing tyranny" perfectly acceptable, what do you suppose they would think of your claiming to be on the same par as they by equating your struggles against videogame harassment to theirs against a would-be global dictator who racked up a body count in the tens of millions?
You know who else was in that war ?
Gene Roddenberry (creator of Star Trek), James Doohan ("Scotty") , DeForest Kelley ("Dr.McCoy"), Mark Lenard ("Sarek"), and Matt Jefferies (Star Trek designer) .
And it does not take a genius to figure out what these men would think of TRIBBLE copy cats trolling players in a Star Trek game & forum ... -- all the while being "within the rules" -- rules that I see as being enforced pretty arbitrarily ... , as said Fleet has been named plenty of times without any such deep moderation as seen in this thread .
I think it's a written rule, actually, and that's part of what we're debating.
Erotic roleplay, filth, death threats, etc. would all be prevented by other rules from being posted, without naming and shaming needing a specific rule. There are rules against mature, violent, profane, political, etc. posts and those would stand without a naming and shaming provision.
All naming and shaming does as a rule is protect exploiters and griefers.
I am unsure how either of these posts relate to the topic in the slightest, beyond that most independant threads based on these are quickly closed for the sillyness that they are.
Anyways, broken surfboard race is broken. However let's give thanks that they at least included a new, if possibly over-ambitious event, as well as plenty of other new content for this year.
I had honestly expected nothing but a rerun of the old event from last year with a new ship reward.
Your bringing WW2 and D-Day into this thread is hilariously misguided. There's no relevance here. None. At. All. No one posting here -- to my knowledge -- is a TRIBBLE,
Sorry , but your Fleet Logo leaves little to the imagination .
(see the user icon of post #97 for reference)
And I find TRIBBLE references in any forum to be offensive (this forum included) , and I don't think the Star Trek WWII veterans I've named above would feel any different then I do about this .
See , I don't think they thought about WWII as "LOL" .
And in case you're shocked to learn this -- this thread is a response of one more of your fleet's .... what do you like to call it ? Role playing session ?
This time cover shields were involved I believe .
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
edited June 2014
*Puts on a combat helmet*
Its spiraling out of control, expanding into everything. Maybe they should make areas where deployable things like Cover Shields can't be used. We can't set up turrets and mortars on ESD anymore, and haven't been able to for a while now.
Transphasic Bombs don't really block anything, and are only really good as a Troll item by planting them under people who are sitting and detonating them for teh lulz. Not really harmful and easily ignored. Cover Shields, which are meant to act as a barrier, are harder to ignore.
Ok guys, sorry to have brought my little 1935-45 problem up here. Having lost family members to this regime and constructors having found a mass grave in the neighborhood did leave some bad taste.
So my sincerly apologies to the leaders of SD, you guys have a big prominent Fleet so there must be more behind than it comes to the eyes.
Sorry , but your Fleet Logo leaves little to the imagination .
(see the user icon of post #97 for reference)
And I find TRIBBLE references in any forum to be offensive (this forum included) , and I don't think the Star Trek WWII veterans I've named above would feel any different then I do about this .
See , I don't think they thought about WWII as "LOL" .
And in case you're shocked to learn this -- this thread is a response of one more of your fleet's .... what do you like to call it ? Role playing session ?
This time cover shields were involved I believe .
I believe this topic was addressed in a previous thread specifically related to our fleet's insignia. The answer was a reminder that the eagle is not a TRIBBLE symbol.
I, as well as MANY others, including the moderator, pointed this out and even presented historical information related to the symbol in relation to banners and insignias throughout the ages.
Being willfully ignorant and basically derailing the thread to take out your apparent personal problems with my fleet, or perhaps just me given your use of my specific avatar, is pretty silly.
I advise taking it to personal messages with either myself or another fleet representative instead of continuing to make posts that can only be called whine without cheese.
One small problem with that bit .
Prior complaints against said fleet were put into question -- namely "screenshot or it didn't happen" .
I refer to harassing players @ Drozana .
Now that a screenshot is provided , and again multiple player report the occurrence , and it get's "moderated" .
(still can be seen on the Reddit forums tho)
Yes and about that ... -- usually ppl who volunteer to moderate do so out of their love for their community .
How does it feel that that has lead you askray to become the protector of trolls and internet thugs , hmm ?
How did it feel when you smacked me down and told me that I'm not to "refer to them nor use their exact name" , yet they can refer to but not use TRIBBLE symbolism on these very forums ?
Anything strikes you as a tad bit wrong there ?
Anything at all ?
"Just following orders ?"
D-Day was celebrated just a few days ago .
Did that have any meaning for you , and those like you who protect the very ideologies that those who fought and died there on D-Day have fought to prevent .
"Be quiet."
"Conform."
"Obay."
I have one word for that , and that is : No .
Did you seriously compare griefing to WWII?
I can't even come to grips with the sheer gall and ignorance in that.
This is a reason why the "grab the flag" mechanic needs to go, and replaced by the traditional "cross the finish line" race win.
Finally, a man on topic.
Yes, yes it does.
However a dev appears to have even admitted that their engine currently cannot support such and that is why we have the proxy finish line with the flags, as irritating as they are.
Hopefully we'll see a refined version of it at some point since the idea opens a lot of other opportunities.
I believe this topic was addressed in a previous thread specifically related to our fleet's insignia. The answer was a reminder that the eagle is not a TRIBBLE symbol.
The topic was addressed , but the explanation was not accepted ... , any more than your "we're fire fighters" story was accepted for trolling ppl with fire extinguishers , or the "we're fighting sex offenders" story was when you used small toon/big toon costumes to bump into and move ppl's characters around .
Oh yeah , and Drozna is not your Fleet's personal base either , just so we're clear on that too .
And while the cover shield @ Risa may be just your fleets latest "fun" with other players , I did note that at least some of your members no longer use the TRIBBLE metaphor in their forum signature .
You know , the one that you still use .
So that , along with your fleets "service channel" shows that you guys are not a complete loss .
But you sure do seem to make an effort to make a "comeback" to your old disruptive habits .... and then play the innocent / victim .
Sadly (being a quasi troll myself) that does not work with me .
It takes one to know one .
However a dev appears to have even admitted that their engine currently cannot support such and that is why we have the proxy finish line with the flags, as irritating as they are.
Hopefully we'll see a refined version of it at some point since the idea opens a lot of other opportunities.
The engine does support it. However, even though the server knows who finished and what place they took, there's enough lag between the server and the client that even having a server-side finish line would seem to produce incorrect results to some players.
IMO seemingly-incorrect results are better than the bull we have now, but I guess it's their call.
Also, has Dental ever considered not ****ting up the game experience for other people using "but it's fun for us!" as (weak) justification?
I am NikkoJT, Foundry author and terrible player. Follow me!
There used to be a picture here, but they changed signatures and I can't be bothered to replace it.
No he compared his getting moderated because he can't follow the forum rules to being persecuted by WWII fascists.
No , I just noted that the fleet who were caught doing the shield griefing the OP was talking about was the same fleet who use a very TRIBBLE like fleet emblem .
In case you missed the screen shots from earlier - it showed a member from the fleet in question standing in from of a staggered row of 5 cover shields blocking the finish line. There were a few members of said fleet also in the shot - but not "tagged" by the camera.
Comments
The problem is this:
We can lobby for rules changes. But we are one game.
And at the end of the day, certain posters are very adept at getting threads closed and framing things in a way to get sympathy from passers by.
It's like the old "Mommy, he's making faces at me" game siblings play on road trips. The aggressor is usually very good at disguising their behavior and the victim has no patience or desire to pretend to be reasonable. But parents fail when they fall into that whole "I'm going to turn this car around"/"Both of you be quiet!" mentality. And that's where I see devs and mods as being stuck.
People are too conflict averse. People in discussions of sensitive topics (religion, politics, current events) always have this false appeal to balance where they blame both sides for things that they don't care enough to get involved in. It's almost never "both sides" in anything though. Both sides may have faults but they're different faults and treating it like one big problem that everyone is contributing to hinders solutions and creates false equivalencies. Even when both sides are at fault for something, it's rarely the same fault and trying to create an equivalency is just avoiding a problem.
Nice idea, but definately needs refinement.
So to that I say, if you don't like that rule, stop posting and cluttering up the forums. Now back on topic, I do agree with the OP that social zones should not have personal powers activate. And I will continue to bombard the suggestions section with this until they implement this.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Well, look, what if someone's issue is not with isolated bugs/exploits but with clear, repeated, and organized use of them to harass other players?
How much effort would it be to disband problem fleets and delete their chat channels, destroying bank assets and fleet holdings? And even then only when they cross a critical threshold and receive warnings.
It would at the very least destroy the leverage such groups hold.
Starting with me, of course. Since I am posting here primarily to stir the pot.
Conflict should also be over something important. Something that matters. Something where someone's existence or culture are hanging in the balance. You know there are countries where even as you read this post it is raining bombs.
Yet here we are. Wasting time arguing back and forth about something in an Internet game which we're supposed to be playing for fun. First World problems, eh?
That's cute .
You know who else was in that war ?
Gene Roddenberry (creator of Star Trek), James Doohan ("Scotty") , DeForest Kelley ("Dr.McCoy"), Mark Lenard ("Sarek"), and Matt Jefferies (Star Trek designer) .
And it does not take a genius to figure out what these men would think of TRIBBLE copy cats trolling players in a Star Trek game & forum ... -- all the while being "within the rules" -- rules that I see as being enforced pretty arbitrarily ... , as said Fleet has been named plenty of times without any such deep moderation as seen in this thread .
Thus this is a farce on more then one level .
Think of it like this:
People can't post screenshots of known scammers and their associated logs.
People can't post screenshots of known erotic roleplayers and their mis-whispered filth in local or zone chat and their associated logs.
People can't post proof of death threats of supposed forthcoming and upright players and their associated logs.
People can't post spur-of-the-moment whisper 'exchanges' of literally a user flipping their handle at a party and gauding them into trying to call them nasty things back, as if this gauding will succeed in drawing TOS-breaches of their own, and their associated logs.
And people like you, meanwhile, can't breach the still unwritten rule of naming and shaming either.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think it's a written rule, actually, and that's part of what we're debating.
Erotic roleplay, filth, death threats, etc. would all be prevented by other rules from being posted, without naming and shaming needing a specific rule. There are rules against mature, violent, profane, political, etc. posts and those would stand without a naming and shaming provision.
All naming and shaming does as a rule is protect exploiters and griefers.
Funny. All my examples are exactly that. Exploiters and griefers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And since you find invoking such persons as "equal to your epic struggle against online griefing tyranny" perfectly acceptable, what do you suppose they would think of your claiming to be on the same par as they by equating your struggles against videogame harassment to theirs against a would-be global dictator who racked up a body count in the tens of millions?
Oh yes, indeed it is.
I am unsure how either of these posts relate to the topic in the slightest, beyond that most independant threads based on these are quickly closed for the sillyness that they are.
Anyways, broken surfboard race is broken. However let's give thanks that they at least included a new, if possibly over-ambitious event, as well as plenty of other new content for this year.
I had honestly expected nothing but a rerun of the old event from last year with a new ship reward.
Sorry , but your Fleet Logo leaves little to the imagination .
(see the user icon of post #97 for reference)
And I find TRIBBLE references in any forum to be offensive (this forum included) , and I don't think the Star Trek WWII veterans I've named above would feel any different then I do about this .
See , I don't think they thought about WWII as "LOL" .
And in case you're shocked to learn this -- this thread is a response of one more of your fleet's .... what do you like to call it ? Role playing session ?
This time cover shields were involved I believe .
Its spiraling out of control, expanding into everything. Maybe they should make areas where deployable things like Cover Shields can't be used. We can't set up turrets and mortars on ESD anymore, and haven't been able to for a while now.
Transphasic Bombs don't really block anything, and are only really good as a Troll item by planting them under people who are sitting and detonating them for teh lulz. Not really harmful and easily ignored. Cover Shields, which are meant to act as a barrier, are harder to ignore.
So my sincerly apologies to the leaders of SD, you guys have a big prominent Fleet so there must be more behind than it comes to the eyes.
I believe this topic was addressed in a previous thread specifically related to our fleet's insignia. The answer was a reminder that the eagle is not a TRIBBLE symbol.
I, as well as MANY others, including the moderator, pointed this out and even presented historical information related to the symbol in relation to banners and insignias throughout the ages.
Being willfully ignorant and basically derailing the thread to take out your apparent personal problems with my fleet, or perhaps just me given your use of my specific avatar, is pretty silly.
I advise taking it to personal messages with either myself or another fleet representative instead of continuing to make posts that can only be called whine without cheese.
system Lord Baal is dead
Where is the Doooommmm thread??
Did you seriously compare griefing to WWII?
I can't even come to grips with the sheer gall and ignorance in that.
They could still block the finish line.
Finally, a man on topic.
Yes, yes it does.
However a dev appears to have even admitted that their engine currently cannot support such and that is why we have the proxy finish line with the flags, as irritating as they are.
Hopefully we'll see a refined version of it at some point since the idea opens a lot of other opportunities.
Good point.
Thanks for the giggle , I needed that !
The topic was addressed , but the explanation was not accepted ... , any more than your "we're fire fighters" story was accepted for trolling ppl with fire extinguishers , or the "we're fighting sex offenders" story was when you used small toon/big toon costumes to bump into and move ppl's characters around .
Oh yeah , and Drozna is not your Fleet's personal base either , just so we're clear on that too .
And while the cover shield @ Risa may be just your fleets latest "fun" with other players , I did note that at least some of your members no longer use the TRIBBLE metaphor in their forum signature .
You know , the one that you still use .
So that , along with your fleets "service channel" shows that you guys are not a complete loss .
But you sure do seem to make an effort to make a "comeback" to your old disruptive habits .... and then play the innocent / victim .
Sadly (being a quasi troll myself) that does not work with me .
It takes one to know one .
This comes from the same guy that...
Actually, haha, no, let's not break the Terms of Service.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The engine does support it. However, even though the server knows who finished and what place they took, there's enough lag between the server and the client that even having a server-side finish line would seem to produce incorrect results to some players.
IMO seemingly-incorrect results are better than the bull we have now, but I guess it's their call.
Also, has Dental ever considered not ****ting up the game experience for other people using "but it's fun for us!" as (weak) justification?
There used to be a picture here, but they changed signatures and I can't be bothered to replace it.
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No , I just noted that the fleet who were caught doing the shield griefing the OP was talking about was the same fleet who use a very TRIBBLE like fleet emblem .
Try to keep up .
In case you missed the screen shots from earlier - it showed a member from the fleet in question standing in from of a staggered row of 5 cover shields blocking the finish line. There were a few members of said fleet also in the shot - but not "tagged" by the camera.