The ones "who dont care" are not hostage of anyone.. they just dont care. You add them to your side, I add them to my side, but the true is that they dont care, and I bet they are more than 90% of the player base. So, the only ones hostage of this situations are the one that for good or for bad, care about the changes. I am hostage of the players that want the change and they are of the ones that dont want them. This is an imposible situation, and I admit that.. the problem is that some just dont give a dam about others.
You're absolutely right about "those that don't care" and I think that was the point I was trying to illustrate. The only ones that are really putting any stake into this debate are "those for" and "those against". Let's not talk about one side holding the other hostage, though. That just comes off as combative and stifles the debate. But it would seem that both sides are reaching an impasse, if an agreeable solution cannot be met.
No one here said that, so why assume that if I am againts the change I have gliched costumes?
I think you misunderstand. No one is saying that if you, personally, are against the change, then you, personally, must have glitched costumes. But, there are some other people, who may be against the change, because they do have glitched costumes. Those people would be against the change, because they could not even attempt to correct their costumes without losing those glitched costumes entirely. That's the only reason glitched costumes were brought up.
He does if he claims that the majority wants this change.
The statement you're refuting makes no mention about what majorities want. He's simply stating that a subset of the player population should not prevent the player population as a whole from having access to an option just because giving said option might inconvenience the subset.
I can give that logic a turn also: All the players in the game are going to have their costumes changes, all the players on the game are going to have their costumes TRIBBLE, then we are majority.
What you said is not more correct than what I just said. Again, you assume that any change is good, even if destroy other stuff.
Yes, everyone's costumes get changed if the proposed change occurs. I believe the OP did say that. Screwed? Destroyed? That's a matter of personal opinion, and neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can speak for any other player on that. The question is: who wants the change, and who is willing to deal with a bit of possible inconvenience to have more options available to all?
I'm not saying that ANY and ALL change is good. I'm saying that giving players more options and more control over character and costume creation is good.
But they dont care for more options. You know, in many countrys for a change on the costitustion or what ever, you need a certain porsentage, beacose you can not change what is wrting if you dont have a clear majority. You put the ones who dont even go to vote in your side! How so? Who give you that rigth? If 90% (just a stupid number, I dont have a study like some seems to have) dont care about the change, then why do it? Why force the change that many ppl dont care to have in the pleyers that dont want it? Beacose a few want it?
You're right. Those that don't care, don't care. It doesn't have any bearing on whether we get the option or not. Those that don't vote, don't have a voice. I'm not putting them on the "for" or "against" side of the debate. They're just everyone else. Whether they are 10% of the population or 90% of the population is irrelevant to the debate. Yes, they'll be affected, but just like in a political election, if they don't speak up and vote, they'll have to deal with the results. The fact of the matter is the question has been put to the players: do you want this or not? Those that actually speak up and vote will be the ones to decide. That's just the way it works.
Or not destroying the players hard work.. you see.. your logic can be turn also.
Nothing's getting "destroyed". Just tweaked a bit. It CAN be tweaked back. You're argument is based solely on your own inconvenience and your outlook here seems very fatalistic.
Addons are ok, but destroying ppl work is not. Even more for changes that many ppl dont care about it.
Hell, even real and big changes like the Gorn characters are ok, but all this for a change that for what it looks (I dont have a study, I could be wrong) the big majorty of the players base didnt ask for and they are not even going to notice??
You continue to use the false argument that changes shouldn't be made because there are people who do not care or may not even be aware of this debate.
So, you're OK with making changes to Gorns, just not other characters. That seems speciesest.
You have no idea how many players have asked for this. I'll guarantee you that it was enough to prompt a dev to start this thread. That's obviously enough to get the ball rolling to look into making said changes. And if by your own admission, it won't be noticed, then why are you so worried about your work being "destroyed"?
The biggest different beauties you and me, is that I know this is a No Win Scenario and I really care about players that want to have this option. Some of us takes the character creation really serious (for a game) and I know what it feels to not have the possibility of crating your perfect character. I understand their feelings, and they desires and I want the changes to happened but not by destroying my work. You on the other side, dont give a dam and dont care.. at least I know that my position is 50% wrong and 50% correct, because this is a No Win Scenario.
Now hold on right there. Do not presume know how I feel with regards to anything. *I* take character creation very seriously as well. And I empathize with those that may feel adversely affected by any change that is made, especially those with multiple costume slots across multiple toons. I have about 2 dozen Alts myself. I've posted some ideas in this very thread that I hope would try to alleviate some of those potential problems. Whether they could actually work or not is not for me to decide, though. But I DO care and I DO give a damn about whether and to what extent others might be affected. I just happen to also believe that the freedom of options and choice of ALL the players should not be dictated or hampered by the inconvenience that might be visited upon a vocal FEW.
And like I siad before, this is beyond brest sides, beacose tomorrow is that and the next week is going to be the hips and then month the head, and the next one the feets. I can live with a little change on the brest, but I am not going to live changing my character each time a few players wants a new addition.
You're right. It's not just about breast size. Today it's this, tomorrow it will be something else. The OP indicated that they were looking at this one step at a time. And I will welcome those changes when they come, too.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
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Do you work? In real life.. do you have a family? I do.. It took me 4 years make all this work.. 4 years in which I trusted this company my money, my trust and even more important, my free time.
So, if you have a time machine, or you are rich and can provide for my family so I can stay changing costumes, then I can do all the changes.
So now, for serious, I am going to enjoy the Workers day.
Live Long and Prosper.
Well, yes, I do have a family and real life too if you must know. Stop assuming that everyone who plays games is a no-life kid living in their mom's basement... thank you.
Seriously... you refuse any changes because of *your* inconviniences, assuming you are the onle one who is affected by the change. Despite of the changes allowing you to revert back to what you had. From the posts I've seen so far, most who did post here, people do not mind more options for a price that they'd need to make adjustments to their characters, because more options is something people do want.
You are truly fatalistic and rather narrow-minded in your views, claiming your work gets destroyed when in reality, it wouldn't even be the case. I'm not trying to be mean, just kind of that no matter what logic arguments are presented to you, you wouldn't even consider them, playing the 'my costumes will be destroyed', without that even being the case.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
2) Apparently I was wrong. People out there DO indeed want to make "WHY ARE YOU MAKING MY VIDEO GAME BOOBIES ON MY PIXELATED WOMAN SMALLER !!!!" into their personal rage crusade. And I thought I had seen everything.
3) Despite someone's insistance that my earlier post was somehow directed at them, it wasn't. I would think that would be clear from the way it was written, but apparently I was wrong.
I will double down on my opinion.
The change as described in the OP is a good one that opens more choice and option for the entire playerbase. AND those who are affected by the "smallening" of your virtual boobies can go readjust to the ridiculous proportions you think are what real people look like, by simply readjusting the sliders.
NOTHING is lost, except for the time and annoyance of the people who have to go change some silly # of costumes.
To deny these new options to the entire player base because a few people don't want their virtual boobies shrank would be a terrible decision.
People out there DO indeed want to make "WHY ARE YOU MAKING MY VIDEO GAME BOOBIES ON MY PIXELATED WOMAN SMALLER !!!!" into their personal rage crusade. And I thought I had seen everything.
And here, we went from a healthy discussion to some one who do not even reed half what the other personal think, and then assume all wrong and also deliver a personal attack.
Hmm. Seems to me that there's an easy solution to all this, if only Cryptic could introduce a "Load Body Only" option (alongside the "Load Outfit Only" option) at the same time as altering the breast slider settings. If that could be done, I think it would bring correcting even Cerritourug's 800 costumes into the realm of reasonable possibility. Even better if there could be an option for "copy body settings to ALL costumes", of course. Can that be done, devs?
Hmm. Seems to me that there's an easy solution to all this, if only Cryptic could introduce a "Load Body Only" option (alongside the "Load Outfit Only" option) at the same time as altering the breast slider settings. If that could be done, I think it would bring correcting even Cerritourug's 800 costumes into the realm of reasonable possibility. Even better if there could be an option for "copy body settings to ALL costumes", of course. Can that be done, devs?
Well, I was hoping this suggestion might help cover some of that:
Also, how about a lock option? Something that locks a given slider, color, costume piece in place.
This might come in handy for when you're hitting the Randomize button and you see a feature that you like, but you want to change other things. You could lock those features in place and then hit the Randomize button again without having to worry about losing those features you like.
It might also work for those worried about losing their characters' looks if something is changed in the editor. With the lock in place, those features then, ideally, shouldn't change.
An additional option that might work along similar lines:
A toggle that allows you to make simultaneous changes across all your toon's costumes.
Say you decide to change your toon's face, but you have 80 costumes. That's a lot of tweaking. With said toggle option, you turn the toggle on and when you edit the face on one costume, it edits the face on all costumes simultaneously. You could change the hair color on all your costumes at the same time, but perhaps you have that one costume where you prefer the hair to be blonde instead of the brown that you just changed all the others to. After you've saved the change, turn the toggle off, then go to that costume slot and change that one's hair color to blonde.
EDIT: BTW, I'm in favor of just about anything that gives us more options.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
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In regards to the bust slider, we are not going to make any changes that globally affect existing characters.
FYI, I was able to change a really easy setting allowing TRIBBLE to be a smidge smaller without affecting current costumes. So eventually that will go live. That said, you probably won't notice the difference between the old smallest setting and the new, which is a bummer .
Easy way to calculate new value:
absolute = (position_on_scale*(old_max - old_min)) + old_min; // gives us the value the slider represents.
new_position_on_scale = (absolute-new_min)/(new_max-new_min); // finds what percentage of the new slider scale the absolute should be.
I'm an artist, not a mathist ;P
In all seriousness, that's along the lines of what we'd need to do and we've had initial talks about it.
That's a desirable route for a lot of people, but this falls into that "not as easy as you'd think" category. Not ruling it out eventually, but not quite the same as changing a setting or two.
As a general comment about proposals requesting that we save everything in a state as it is and give an option to update, and/or duplicating the features so you have a choice, etc...also, not as easy as you'd think (if you thought it'd be easy), and probably a helluva lot harder than you're thinking (if you thought it'd be hard). There are so many interconnected systems that are absolutely dependent on each other. On an extreme end, imagine suddenly your characters don't get new animations because you're on an old setup? Maybe not the biggest deal, but also increasing the hard drive space and download time on updates for all the character art? And really, would it be just doubling? Say we duplicate stuff now. Then a year from now we make new revisions and additions. Duplicate again?, so those people that are cemented into their characters at that point don't throw a fit? The amount of testing compatibility increases exponentially, and if we just "allow" people to play with potentially broken stuff, (regardless of how you feel the state of polish the game is in currently - good or bad), we don't actually want to increase the chances of more broken things in the game.
We will strive to strike a balance between improving and expanding the game and reworking beloved foundations, but duplicating everything and just throwing more options at the players isn't the way.
Before I sign off on this post, I've got some goodies to share. In the works is an improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. It's really just subheadings but a bonus is if you want to randomize each section you will be able to. For example, want to randomize just the nose settings? Just hit the randomize button next to the "Nose.." header. You'll also be glad to hear we're working on getting a couple additional sliders in that have been requested (like a waist slider )
Great! Glad to hear that you were able to find that happy medium where people got their option while still preserving others' characters. This bodes well for future changes and could make them more acceptable to the whole.
Sorry to hear that the reduction isn't as noticeable as some might have liked.
Also looking forward to the improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. Would still like to see the percentage values displayed numerically and arrows step in increments of 1% for more precise control, though.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
In regards to the bust slider, we are not going to make any changes that globally affect existing characters.
FYI, I was able to change a really easy setting allowing TRIBBLE to be a smidge smaller without affecting current costumes. So eventually that will go live. That said, you probably won't notice the difference between the old smallest setting and the new, which is a bummer .
(again, this won't affect current sizes! There will be an extra bit on the low end of the slider that you'll be able to access)
Bummer... the difference is just not there at all, when I compare the images...
So, if I understand it correctly, we are not going to see any lower settings than the one you posted just now? That does make me a bit (Actually a lot...) sad, as the size is still basicly the same...
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Great! Glad to hear that you were able to find that happy medium where people got their option while still preserving others' characters. This bodes well for future changes and could make them more acceptable to the whole.
Sorry to hear that the reduction isn't as noticeable as some might have liked.
Also looking forward to the improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. Would still like to see the percentage values displayed numerically and arrows step in increments of 1% for more precise control, though.
^^^ Yes please...
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Before I sign off on this post, I've got some goodies to share. In the works is an improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. It's really just subheadings but a bonus is if you want to randomize each section you will be able to. For example, want to randomize just the nose settings? Just hit the randomize button next to the "Nose.." header. You'll also be glad to hear we're working on getting a couple additional sliders in that have been requested (like a waist slider )
Great! Glad to hear that you were able to find that happy medium where people got their option while still preserving others' characters. This bodes well for future changes and could make them more acceptable to the whole.
Sorry to hear that the reduction isn't as noticeable as some might have liked.
Also looking forward to the improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. Would still like to see the percentage values displayed numerically and arrows step in increments of 1% for more precise control, though.
The reduction is just not there at all... I mean.. I have an eye for these things... and I just don't see it... I wish that one vocal person who was against the change and refusing to make adjustments to their costumes wouldn't be the reason for this to happen. This is not a middle-ground... if the change is not even noticeable. That is catering to a loud individual to a thread. I hope he is happy now...
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Just my 2EC, having 52 alts I'm all for more options in the Tailor which has become a mini-game for me personally.
Short list of wishes:
An advanced body proportions tab like with the face options
Bring back retro Gorn heads as option
Add naussicaan, lethean females as playable options
Combine the off-duty, uniform, formal tabs into 1 tab that would allow a lot of options and usable for our bridge officers.
The attempt is greatly appreciated, though. Hopefully you'll either go through with the full blown scale change or find another a happy medium solution.
to be honest now that costumes are free to edit I say add changes that may lead to fixing things on our characters is free now so all we lose is a bit of time. and to be honest more customization is never a bad thing.
And who said you are the many? At the moment I have seen no one supporting the change on our character just for adding a "less TRIBBLE slider".
The question is, does the game needs that change on the slider? I dont think so, not at the cost of destroying a lot of work done.
No; the question is, "how easy is it to just readjust the TRIBBLE a bit?" Unless, of course, you have tons of alts, in which case you probably shouldn't be so picky about exact boob sizes in the first place.
The reduction is just not there at all... I mean.. I have an eye for these things... and I just don't see it... I wish that one vocal person who was against the change and refusing to make adjustments to their costumes wouldn't be the reason for this to happen. This is not a middle-ground... if the change is not even noticeable. That is catering to a loud individual to a thread. I hope he is happy now...
I understand your disappointment. I didn't notice that much diffence between the pics either, but it may have been the best they could do for now and with the time allotted. Perhaps more can be done in future.
I really don't think that one voice kept this from being implemented the way we would've hoped, and it wouldn't be fair to lay blame with that one voice.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
In regards to the bust slider, we are not going to make any changes that globally affect existing characters.
FYI, I was able to change a really easy setting allowing TRIBBLE to be a smidge smaller without affecting current costumes. So eventually that will go live. That said, you probably won't notice the difference between the old smallest setting and the new, which is a bummer .
Before I sign off on this post, I've got some goodies to share. In the works is an improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. It's really just subheadings but a bonus is if you want to randomize each section you will be able to. For example, want to randomize just the nose settings? Just hit the randomize button next to the "Nose.." header. You'll also be glad to hear we're working on getting a couple additional sliders in that have been requested (like a waist slider )
One really loud guy in a thread where almost everyone else said some variation of "I don't mind having to go redo some sliders." has caused a Cryptic Dev to back off of what could have been a great change for the game.
Cerritourug, I hope you are pleased with yourself.
And I hope that no one ever has to see you whine about how the Devs don't listen, EVER again.
You get exactly what you wanted while the rest of us get screwed out of having better options.
because You are too lazy to change the stupid # of costumes on your toons.
Seriously. Thanks.
You rule.
When even Centersolace (perhaps the forums biggest supporter of the female form) has no problem with the idea proposed in the OP, and you even ADMIT multiple times that your issue is a selfish and personal one, and you are the one who gets your way .....
I am still hoping that the devs & crypticjoejing could be persuaded into adding a second torso 'type', similar to what we have with heads. That new one catering to actually small / flat busts... in a visible way. That way, they keep the word about not changing the current costumes, as long as they would be set as the default 'torso' option...
Frankly, given how things are now and that female characters all have rather huge assets even at minimum settings, I'd be just happy for a slightly edited male torso as an option, as the uniforms I wear on my character would hide curves / TRIBBLE anyways.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Heh, impassioned topic.
FYI, I was able to change a really easy setting allowing TRIBBLE to be a smidge smaller without affecting current costumes. So eventually that will go live. That said, you probably won't notice the difference between the old smallest setting and the new, which is a bummer .
You're right that there doesn't appear to be much difference, but it's hard to tell because those screenshots seem to have been taken at different zoom levels.
Before I sign off on this post, I've got some goodies to share. In the works is an improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. It's really just subheadings but a bonus is if you want to randomize each section you will be able to. For example, want to randomize just the nose settings? Just hit the randomize button next to the "Nose.." header. You'll also be glad to hear we're working on getting a couple additional sliders in that have been requested (like a waist slider )
I agree that splitting the various head and face sliders into different sections is an improvement. While you're UI programmers are looking at the "Randomize" buttons, you might want to make them aware of this old bug.
Finally, this is completely off-topic, but can you please confirm whether the hair color update you talked about on the Tribble forums actually made it to Holodeck. I suspect that it hasn't, because Admiral T'nae at Starbase 39-Sierra still has grayish hair.
Before I sign off on this post, I've got some goodies to share. In the works is an improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. It's really just subheadings but a bonus is if you want to randomize each section you will be able to. For example, want to randomize just the nose settings? Just hit the randomize button next to the "Nose.." header. You'll also be glad to hear we're working on getting a couple additional sliders in that have been requested (like a waist slider )
This is great news, I think some of my characters might be getting makeovers when this goes live.
...has caused a Cryptic Dev to back off of what could have been a great change for the game.
We're still planning on implementing something to allow smaller busts - it just won't happen right away as we will attempt to retain players current settings.
Finally, this is completely off-topic, but can you please confirm whether the hair color update you talked about on the Tribble forums actually made it to Holodeck.
One really loud guy in a thread where almost everyone else said some variation of "I don't mind having to go redo some sliders." has caused a Cryptic Dev to back off of what could have been a great change for the game.
Cerritourug, I hope you are pleased with yourself.
And I hope that no one ever has to see you whine about how the Devs don't listen, EVER again.
You get exactly what you wanted while the rest of us get screwed out of having better options.
because You are too lazy to change the stupid # of costumes on your toons.
Seriously. Thanks.
You rule.
When even Centersolace (perhaps the forums biggest supporter of the female form) has no problem with the idea proposed in the OP, and you even ADMIT multiple times that your issue is a selfish and personal one, and you are the one who gets your way .....
Seriously ... What the hell ?
Come on, Jon. Do you SERIOUSLY think that just ONE voice, albeit a vocal one, swayed this at all? You're not being really fair to the guy by putting it all on him.
I honestly believe Joe wasn't given a lot of time (or maybe ANY time) to devote to this and this was the best that could be delivered right now. Perhaps I'm just being optimistic there, but at any rate, I don't think you can lay this all at the feet of one vocal naysayer on the forum.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
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We're still planning on implementing something to allow smaller busts - it just won't happen right away as we will attempt to retain players current settings.
See! This seems to confirm my theory that it's the best they could do in the short term, but long term, they're still working it.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
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We're still planning on implementing something to allow smaller busts - it just won't happen right away as we will attempt to retain players current settings.
Appreciate this. I don't mind to wait for it, as long as I know something to allow properly small bust is coming in the future I'm not going anywhere in the forseeable future, given there are still alive Borg for me to kick. :D
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
We're still planning on implementing something to allow smaller busts - it just won't happen right away as we will attempt to retain players current settings.
Ah who cares about current settings. PULL THE LEVER JOEJING!!!!
We're still planning on implementing something to allow smaller busts - it just won't happen right away as we will attempt to retain players current settings.
Pretty sure it's still just on Tribble
Any chance we could have an option for the old pre-season 9 faces back?
Because the changes made with S9 makes it impossible for me to identically re-create them as they were.
Come on, Jon. Do you SERIOUSLY think that just ONE voice, albeit a vocal one, swayed this at all? You're not being really fair to the guy by putting it all on him.
The worst thing is that I am not happy, I am relieved, but not happy. I do want this change to happend, but not like this.
We're still planning on implementing something to allow smaller busts - it just won't happen right away as we will attempt to retain players current settings.
Comments
No, he did not accuse you of having glitched costumes. He simply mentioned people that have glitched costumes.
You're absolutely right about "those that don't care" and I think that was the point I was trying to illustrate. The only ones that are really putting any stake into this debate are "those for" and "those against". Let's not talk about one side holding the other hostage, though. That just comes off as combative and stifles the debate. But it would seem that both sides are reaching an impasse, if an agreeable solution cannot be met.
I think you misunderstand. No one is saying that if you, personally, are against the change, then you, personally, must have glitched costumes. But, there are some other people, who may be against the change, because they do have glitched costumes. Those people would be against the change, because they could not even attempt to correct their costumes without losing those glitched costumes entirely. That's the only reason glitched costumes were brought up.
The statement you're refuting makes no mention about what majorities want. He's simply stating that a subset of the player population should not prevent the player population as a whole from having access to an option just because giving said option might inconvenience the subset.
Yes, everyone's costumes get changed if the proposed change occurs. I believe the OP did say that. Screwed? Destroyed? That's a matter of personal opinion, and neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can speak for any other player on that. The question is: who wants the change, and who is willing to deal with a bit of possible inconvenience to have more options available to all?
I'm not saying that ANY and ALL change is good. I'm saying that giving players more options and more control over character and costume creation is good.
Well, my statement about razing ESD to the ground was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
Yes, devs know that changes like this can be problematic, which is why we're having this discussion.
You're right. Those that don't care, don't care. It doesn't have any bearing on whether we get the option or not. Those that don't vote, don't have a voice. I'm not putting them on the "for" or "against" side of the debate. They're just everyone else. Whether they are 10% of the population or 90% of the population is irrelevant to the debate. Yes, they'll be affected, but just like in a political election, if they don't speak up and vote, they'll have to deal with the results. The fact of the matter is the question has been put to the players: do you want this or not? Those that actually speak up and vote will be the ones to decide. That's just the way it works.
Nothing's getting "destroyed". Just tweaked a bit. It CAN be tweaked back. You're argument is based solely on your own inconvenience and your outlook here seems very fatalistic.
True, but my point still stands.
You continue to use the false argument that changes shouldn't be made because there are people who do not care or may not even be aware of this debate.
So, you're OK with making changes to Gorns, just not other characters. That seems speciesest.
You have no idea how many players have asked for this. I'll guarantee you that it was enough to prompt a dev to start this thread. That's obviously enough to get the ball rolling to look into making said changes. And if by your own admission, it won't be noticed, then why are you so worried about your work being "destroyed"?
Again, fatalistic.
Now hold on right there. Do not presume know how I feel with regards to anything. *I* take character creation very seriously as well. And I empathize with those that may feel adversely affected by any change that is made, especially those with multiple costume slots across multiple toons. I have about 2 dozen Alts myself. I've posted some ideas in this very thread that I hope would try to alleviate some of those potential problems. Whether they could actually work or not is not for me to decide, though. But I DO care and I DO give a damn about whether and to what extent others might be affected. I just happen to also believe that the freedom of options and choice of ALL the players should not be dictated or hampered by the inconvenience that might be visited upon a vocal FEW.
You're right. It's not just about breast size. Today it's this, tomorrow it will be something else. The OP indicated that they were looking at this one step at a time. And I will welcome those changes when they come, too.
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Seriously... you refuse any changes because of *your* inconviniences, assuming you are the onle one who is affected by the change. Despite of the changes allowing you to revert back to what you had. From the posts I've seen so far, most who did post here, people do not mind more options for a price that they'd need to make adjustments to their characters, because more options is something people do want.
You are truly fatalistic and rather narrow-minded in your views, claiming your work gets destroyed when in reality, it wouldn't even be the case. I'm not trying to be mean, just kind of that no matter what logic arguments are presented to you, you wouldn't even consider them, playing the 'my costumes will be destroyed', without that even being the case.
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2) Apparently I was wrong. People out there DO indeed want to make "WHY ARE YOU MAKING MY VIDEO GAME BOOBIES ON MY PIXELATED WOMAN SMALLER !!!!" into their personal rage crusade. And I thought I had seen everything.
3) Despite someone's insistance that my earlier post was somehow directed at them, it wasn't. I would think that would be clear from the way it was written, but apparently I was wrong.
I will double down on my opinion.
The change as described in the OP is a good one that opens more choice and option for the entire playerbase. AND those who are affected by the "smallening" of your virtual boobies can go readjust to the ridiculous proportions you think are what real people look like, by simply readjusting the sliders.
NOTHING is lost, except for the time and annoyance of the people who have to go change some silly # of costumes.
To deny these new options to the entire player base because a few people don't want their virtual boobies shrank would be a terrible decision.
Peace
So, we went from a healthy discussion to personal attack.. ok
And here, we went from a healthy discussion to some one who do not even reed half what the other personal think, and then assume all wrong and also deliver a personal attack.
I still respect your opinions guys..
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Well, I was hoping this suggestion might help cover some of that:
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In regards to the bust slider, we are not going to make any changes that globally affect existing characters.
FYI, I was able to change a really easy setting allowing TRIBBLE to be a smidge smaller without affecting current costumes. So eventually that will go live. That said, you probably won't notice the difference between the old smallest setting and the new, which is a bummer
current: http://imgur.com/PfrFbYm,LZcmZXM
new lowest setting: http://imgur.com/PfrFbYm,LZcmZXM#1
(again, this won't affect current sizes! There will be an extra bit on the low end of the slider that you'll be able to access)
I'm an artist, not a mathist ;P
In all seriousness, that's along the lines of what we'd need to do and we've had initial talks about it.
That's a desirable route for a lot of people, but this falls into that "not as easy as you'd think" category. Not ruling it out eventually, but not quite the same as changing a setting or two.
As a general comment about proposals requesting that we save everything in a state as it is and give an option to update, and/or duplicating the features so you have a choice, etc...also, not as easy as you'd think (if you thought it'd be easy), and probably a helluva lot harder than you're thinking (if you thought it'd be hard). There are so many interconnected systems that are absolutely dependent on each other. On an extreme end, imagine suddenly your characters don't get new animations because you're on an old setup? Maybe not the biggest deal, but also increasing the hard drive space and download time on updates for all the character art? And really, would it be just doubling? Say we duplicate stuff now. Then a year from now we make new revisions and additions. Duplicate again?, so those people that are cemented into their characters at that point don't throw a fit? The amount of testing compatibility increases exponentially, and if we just "allow" people to play with potentially broken stuff, (regardless of how you feel the state of polish the game is in currently - good or bad), we don't actually want to increase the chances of more broken things in the game.
We will strive to strike a balance between improving and expanding the game and reworking beloved foundations, but duplicating everything and just throwing more options at the players isn't the way.
Before I sign off on this post, I've got some goodies to share. In the works is an improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. It's really just subheadings but a bonus is if you want to randomize each section you will be able to. For example, want to randomize just the nose settings? Just hit the randomize button next to the "Nose.." header. You'll also be glad to hear we're working on getting a couple additional sliders in that have been requested (like a waist slider
Current:
http://imgur.com/0W7Nnxa,yYadq5a
In the works:
http://imgur.com/0W7Nnxa,yYadq5a#1
Great! Glad to hear that you were able to find that happy medium where people got their option while still preserving others' characters. This bodes well for future changes and could make them more acceptable to the whole.
Sorry to hear that the reduction isn't as noticeable as some might have liked.
Also looking forward to the improved format for the Character Creator/Tailor. Would still like to see the percentage values displayed numerically and arrows step in increments of 1% for more precise control, though.
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I think I told you this before, but you are my favorite dev.
Thank you so much.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Bummer... the difference is just not there at all, when I compare the images...
So, if I understand it correctly, we are not going to see any lower settings than the one you posted just now? That does make me a bit (Actually a lot...) sad, as the size is still basicly the same...
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^^^ Yes please...
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
This is the best!
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Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Short list of wishes:
An advanced body proportions tab like with the face options
Bring back retro Gorn heads as option
Add naussicaan, lethean females as playable options
Combine the off-duty, uniform, formal tabs into 1 tab that would allow a lot of options and usable for our bridge officers.
That's all I got for now, enjoy the game.
The attempt is greatly appreciated, though. Hopefully you'll either go through with the full blown scale change or find another a happy medium solution.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
No; the question is, "how easy is it to just readjust the TRIBBLE a bit?" Unless, of course, you have tons of alts, in which case you probably shouldn't be so picky about exact boob sizes in the first place.
I understand your disappointment. I didn't notice that much diffence between the pics either, but it may have been the best they could do for now and with the time allotted. Perhaps more can be done in future.
I really don't think that one voice kept this from being implemented the way we would've hoped, and it wouldn't be fair to lay blame with that one voice.
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Eeeeeeehhh...... that's not much of a difference now is it?
Ooooooooh very, very nice!
I am the embodiment of disappointment right now.
One guy.
One really loud guy in a thread where almost everyone else said some variation of "I don't mind having to go redo some sliders." has caused a Cryptic Dev to back off of what could have been a great change for the game.
Cerritourug, I hope you are pleased with yourself.
And I hope that no one ever has to see you whine about how the Devs don't listen, EVER again.
You get exactly what you wanted while the rest of us get screwed out of having better options.
because You are too lazy to change the stupid # of costumes on your toons.
Seriously. Thanks.
You rule.
When even Centersolace (perhaps the forums biggest supporter of the female form) has no problem with the idea proposed in the OP, and you even ADMIT multiple times that your issue is a selfish and personal one, and you are the one who gets your way .....
Seriously ... What the hell ?
Frankly, given how things are now and that female characters all have rather huge assets even at minimum settings, I'd be just happy for a slightly edited male torso as an option, as the uniforms I wear on my character would hide curves / TRIBBLE anyways.
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You're right that there doesn't appear to be much difference, but it's hard to tell because those screenshots seem to have been taken at different zoom levels.
I agree that splitting the various head and face sliders into different sections is an improvement. While you're UI programmers are looking at the "Randomize" buttons, you might want to make them aware of this old bug.
Reset and randomize buttons in the tailor have incorrect tooltips
Finally, this is completely off-topic, but can you please confirm whether the hair color update you talked about on the Tribble forums actually made it to Holodeck. I suspect that it hasn't, because Admiral T'nae at Starbase 39-Sierra still has grayish hair.
This is great news, I think some of my characters might be getting makeovers when this goes live.
We're still planning on implementing something to allow smaller busts - it just won't happen right away as we will attempt to retain players current settings.
Pretty sure it's still just on Tribble
Come on, Jon. Do you SERIOUSLY think that just ONE voice, albeit a vocal one, swayed this at all? You're not being really fair to the guy by putting it all on him.
I honestly believe Joe wasn't given a lot of time (or maybe ANY time) to devote to this and this was the best that could be delivered right now. Perhaps I'm just being optimistic there, but at any rate, I don't think you can lay this all at the feet of one vocal naysayer on the forum.
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See! This seems to confirm my theory that it's the best they could do in the short term, but long term, they're still working it.
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Appreciate this. I don't mind to wait for it, as long as I know something to allow properly small bust is coming in the future
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Ah who cares about current settings. PULL THE LEVER JOEJING!!!!
Any chance we could have an option for the old pre-season 9 faces back?
Because the changes made with S9 makes it impossible for me to identically re-create them as they were.
The worst thing is that I am not happy, I am relieved, but not happy. I do want this change to happend, but not like this.
I do belive that is what happend.
And even if some think too much of me, I am not that important, I just give my opinion and I am doubt that was more important than the other.
.
Now that make my happy.
Division Hispana
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