I do support smaller boob slider with passion, always did, as I always disliked/hated the fact I am forced to have these rather large things on, despite of supposedly 'minimum' setting... that being said, I still believe it should be done... although, I wish it could be done in a way nobody gets hurt. If people can set their character the way they were before, then I see no harm done & more variety is in the game.
I underestend you, beacose you want that over the fact that you are going to loss all your work. That is ok.. but many of us, who dedicated a lot of time not only to get the perfect (to us) toon, that deboted a lot of money with costumes and slots, do not want to loss all that. And today is the TRIBBLE, that is ok, if is a little change I can live with that. The Bust size of my characters is 2.5/5 of the bar, I can live with 2/5. But tomorrow is going to be the hips, or the head, or the foots, and I am not going to change 300 costumes each month!
Sorry, I underestend you, but I spend too much time and money on my characters to loss them.
I underestend you, beacose you want that over the fact that you are going to loss all your work. That is ok.. but many of us, who dedicated a lot of time not only to get the perfect (to us) toon, that deboted a lot of money with costumes and slots, do not want to loss all that. And today is the TRIBBLE, that is ok, if is a little change I can live with that. The Bust size of my characters is 2.5/5 of the bar, I can live with 2/5. But tomorrow is going to be the hips, or the head, or the foots, and I am not going to change 300 costumes each month!
Sorry, I underestend you, but I spend too much time and money on my characters to loss them.
Nothing would be lost, if you can change the character back.. like, really.. it doesn't even cost EC to make alterations to your characters now, as well as it doesn't take as long. And I too have spent money/time into my character... I've always been supportive of variety, even if it totally is not in my personal 'wish list' - because I understand the fact, that people want some things. Give them the choice... and let them make theirs too. Only fair, imo.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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Nothing would be lost, if you can change the character back.. like, really.. it doesn't even cost EC to make alterations to your characters now, as well as it doesn't take as long.
I am not going to change 800 costumes.. not when It took me 4 years to make them.
I've always been supportive of variety, even if it totally is not in my personal 'wish list' - because I understand the fact, that people want some things. Give them the choice... and let them make theirs too. Only fair, imo.
Agree.. but your freedom ends where mines starts. For all I care, give ppl the option to have negative TRIBBLE, like black holes.. or bugs biggers than the moon.. I dont care, but not over the change of 4 years of work.
Some ppl collect ships, some other costumes.. I have more than 10 characters with more than 80 coestumes each, took me 4 years to have that and I am not going to re work it.. that is a matter of fact. And I know I am no the only one, like past events have proben.
I am not going to change 800 costumes.. not when It took me 4 years to make them.
Agree.. but your freedom ends where mines starts. For all I care, give ppl the option to have negative TRIBBLE, like black holes.. or bugs biggers than the moon.. I dont care, but not over the change of 4 years of work.
Some ppl collect ships, some other costumes.. I have more than 10 characters with more than 80 coestumes each, took me 4 years to have that and I am not going to re work it.. that is a matter of fact. And I know I am no the only one, like past events have proben.
Sorry for bad english.
I still hope that a way will be found, to make the small/flat chests to happen, without hurting anyone overly much... because just like you collect costumes, I have a certain vision about my character I would like to put in the game, and couldn't, because of current limitations. This is equally important for me, just like it is for you to keep your costumes. I don't have 10 characters. I have exactly one I really play & give my TLC to... partially because I am and have always been, very RP friendly, and prefer to have one character dear for me... ><
So, if there is a way to do it, I am still pleading the cause for minimizing the 'minimum' bust size... by making a second torso complexion, whatever else, so it is a reality... <.<
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
I still hope that a way will be found, to make the small/flat chests to happen, without hurting anyone overly much... because just like you collect costumes, I have a certain vision about my character I would like to put in the game, and couldn't, because of current limitations. This is equally important for me, just like it is for you to keep your costumes. I don't have 10 characters. I have exactly one I really play & give my TLC to... partially because I am and have always been, very RP friendly, and prefer to have one character dear for me... ><
So, if there is a way to do it, I am still pleading the cause for minimizing the 'minimum' bust size... by making a second torso complexion, whatever else, so it is a reality... <.<
We agree.. this is a TRIBBLE situation and I really hope they can find a solution to make happy both sides, and I trust that with time, crypticjoejing is going to find one.
We agree.. this is a TRIBBLE situation and I really hope they can find a solution to make happy both sides, and I trust that with time, crypticjoejing is going to find one.
In crypticjoejing we trust!
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
As a side note... if there was second torso 'complexity' option.. they could easily experiment with sliders like waist too... I'd not mind that being place for experiments, if it meant more variety!
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
The alternate torso is a copy of the normal torso (uses the EXACT same geo or a duplicate of it) but has a different set of slider ranges.
This is really what they need to do.
And they also need to add such an option for head/faces as well, and have the exact same head/faces as pre-Season 9 as an option.
Sure its probally a lot of work, but ALL players win on it.
Changes and improvements can be made without ruining anyones hard work.
This is really what they need to do.
And they also need to add such an option for head/faces as well, and have the exact same head/faces as pre-Season 9 as an option.
Sure its probally a lot of work, but ALL players win on it.
Changes and improvements can be made without ruining anyones hard work.
If all we're talking about is widening the range on the one slider, there should be no loss at all. I spent less than five minutes coming up with math to do it, and I'm sure the programmers at Cryptic are just as capable of that simple arithmetic as I am. The whole discussion of torsos, body vs costume, and the rest of it is kind of off on a tangent.
Indeed. Plus Cryptic themselves already has a ton of experience with torso and texture sliders, from their CoH and Champions Online. Its not an unreasonable expectation that they implemented it for STO ASAP. After all, they were the ones that made the changes, they should at least held back the body textures when people mentioned it as a concern in Tribble.
Well, if it's possible to scale the minimum down a certain percentage, is it possible to scale the maximum up the same percentage, and thereby maintaining the original parameters set so that no characters are altered?
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Well, if it's possible to scale the minimum down a certain percentage, is it possible to scale the maximum up the same percentage, and thereby maintaining the original parameters set so that no characters are altered?
See my post on the first page. They don't even have to change the upper bound. My math should work on any arbitrary lower and upper bounds.
Good ideas here. And I understand how complex the system is.
The issues for me haven't been just about one particular body shape, but about the appearance of women in games being forced to look unnatural. All my life I have to deal with that aspect of being in the communities that share my interests.
I think Cryptic does a good job at giving options, but not a great job, and I know it could with the budget.
With STO, to focus on that, it's a turn-off to find that in attempting to have even decently human proportionate, or seemingly real-life calves, thighs, waist, and TRIBBLE variants (as women come in all sizes) requires me to sacrifice another body part to some hideously unrealistic shape.
If I want a waist that is natural to the arm width and chest and hips, then I have to look pregnant or large chested.
If I want natural calves, then I can't have healthy thighs for the rest of the body.
For me, it's not just about preferences, decorating, and RPing, it's also about helping women feel comfortable and noticed in the gaming, fantasy, and sci-fi communities that share their passions.
It's about helping communities feel represented, respected, and safe.
I think more women are coming forward to be heard and seen in these communities amongst the opposite sex, and even amongst sexist and homophobic people which can be intimidating and disturbing, but we still have a long way to go. Anything Cryptic can do to assist in this social evolution, which is way overdue in the world, is excellent. While it should have been considered and built better to begin with, let's move forward. I don't want to adjust my characters after a new system change or addition if possible. But if I have to, I will adjust, because having the option to feel like I can exist in the game as myself and as my dreams-come-to-life, not just as someone else's ideal, or a pregnant alien, is worth it.
(I know that men also have to look pregnant if they want to be larger, and they have the calves issue as well.)
But taking it one step at a time, I'm interested your input on the bust slider:
Say we adjust the bust slider allowing smaller bust size as requested enthusiastically by a quite a few players. Great!, right?
Now, what if I tell you we can do that pretty easily! Super awesome, right?
....now, what if I tell you that when we do that every existing female character's bust size will automatically decrease a little...
Not as awesome to a lot of people.
Reason being, the slider is a percentage of a range - if we shift the min size, that changes what everyone's current settings mean to the result seen on your monitors. This would affect player toons specifically, as NPC's already use the full range available.
I think you need to distinguish between two mappings.
Slider position to parameter value: This is the relationship between the slider positions and the values of the parameters in the character model. For example, when the "Bust Size" slider is set to minimum, the value of "Breastsize" is -80, and when the "Bust Size" slider is set to maximum, the value of "Breastsize" is 80.
Parameter value to geometry: This determines how character actually looks based on the parameter values.
So far, all of the character model updates have changed the second mapping. This means that everyone's settings stay exactly the same, both the internal parameter values and the slider positions we see the tailor. However, the way that the game interprets those values has changed.
Why can't you change the first mapping instead? This means that the internal parameter values would stay exactly the same, and how the game interprets those values would remain the same. However, the sliders would have a greater range, and everyone would see their slider positions move, even though their characters have not changed.
I'm actually curious why you suggest changing the second mapping instead of the first. Is it because the character artists have easy access to the second mapping, but a programmer would be required to change the first mapping?
Easy way to calculate new value:
absolute = (position_on_scale*(old_max - old_min)) + old_min; // gives us the value the slider represents.
new_position_on_scale = (absolute-new_min)/(new_max-new_min); // finds what percentage of the new slider scale the absolute should be.
So, just for grins... lets say the old range is from 20 to 80, and the slider is at 20%.
absolute = (.2 * (80-20))
absolute = 12
new range is from 0 to 200
new_position_on_scale = (12-0)/(200-0)
new_position_on_scale = .06, or 6%
It would be simple enough with the math I have provided to update *every* costume on any affected character programmatically. The math should work for any *reasonable* case. If applicable, then players wouldn't see any difference in their character should they lower the minimum.
I'm curious, though. Is the slider position (the percentage) stored in the database, or is the underlying value? Would be a ton simpler for this kind of idea if the value stored was the underlying value instead of the relative position on the slider. Changing the min and max on the slider would have 0 effect on the actual value in the character data then, unless the value was somehow outside of the bounds.
I don't think the math you provided is even necessary. The slider positions are not actually stored. Each slider is associated with a parameter that has a range of values.
I have a Vulcan Tactical officer who is supposed to be more or less built like Danni Ashe (NSFW you've been warned) or say Lisa Nicole Carson. I have a would be Suliban Engineer (still waiting on those parts in the alien generator) who is supposed to be built like a Ballerina.
I would need both extremes of the body types.
Since I don't see any threads on this, I'll post it here, I always wanted to be able to use the old, TOS skirt legs with the modern skirts. But as said earlier there is clipping issues with that. So I suppose the fix matching all the legs should be acceptable....but it just isn't.
The maximum threshold of the legs is still TOO skinny. They're nice, and I applaud the shaping (though knees still look weird from the side) but I'm a thick shapely legs kinda guy. I would've much preferred to stay with the old TOS skirt, than lose those old school style legs. I can understand if the side view would clip, but allowing for them to be wider from the front view would be acceptable to me, though I can't speak for everyone.
And I agree, the inability to make someone generally pudgy without inflicting pregnancy is a bit odd.
I find it weird that people are saying they have had to make corrections to their characters as I haven't experienced anything like that, is that strictly for aliens or any species in general?
I don't have 800 costumes or anything, but I can see how going back to tweak so many can be a pain. But I honestly don't see a way to get around that problem and alter the parameters to increase general choice.
What I would like to see, is a decoupling of Body Appearance, and Costume. A player should be able to set up their characters appearance (body/head options), and those settings should carry over into ANY Costume Slot a person might have. I have about a dozen or so costumes (per character), and it would be a royal pain in the a-- to have to change body settings on each and every costume, if these slider additions go through.
"Simpler" solution for the players, is to have Body options, and Costume options separated. Dunno how much harder it is to do, programming wise.
That would certainly add simplicity, just yesterday I had to basically load my normal uniform toon five times into each costume and rebuild the costume on the new face.
Easy route would be.. make body types. Ie, current body type mostly accomodates smaller/more slim female builds. Similar to what you have with head models and complexions. Let people who want to have the old setting by having that setting as default and add up the possibility of smaller bust on the other body setting, which would basicly be copy-pasted, but allowing for smaller scale of bust, which people would have to switch to. That way, most of people's costumes as well as NPC's do not get messed up & we do still get a smaller bust possible.
And I would love to see a smaller setting, that is for sure. Appreciate you for taking your time for posting here and asking too!
That's an excellent idea.
To be frank I don't understand why we can't swap pieces overall. Noses, lips, eyes a little mix and match goes a long way. Speaking of noses you guys didn't put in a curved Mediterranean nose. And if I have one face wish, it would be for cheek bone control.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I have a Vulcan Tactical officer who is supposed to be more or less built like Danni Ashe (NSFW you've been warned) or say Lisa Nicole Carson. I have a would be Suliban Engineer (still waiting on those parts in the alien generator) who is supposed to be built like a Ballerina.
I would need both extremes of the body types.
Hear! Hear! Real women have different sized chests! So should my characters!
Hear! Hear! Real women have different sized chests! So should my characters!
Exactly. From my tall but athletic Andorian, to my medium curvy Borg, to my Amazonian Klingon doctor.
Another issue but one I can kind of understand and it doesn't inhibit me much is how much actual breast size is tied to torso size. They should be decoupled. I know that can be dangerous because some people have no restraint, but that's a real thing that occurs where a woman has a tiny torso and large TRIBBLE.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Exactly. From my tall but athletic Andorian, to my medium curvy Borg, to my Amazonian Klingon doctor.
Another issue but one I can kind of understand and it doesn't inhibit me much is how much actual breast size is tied to torso size. They should be decoupled. I know that can be dangerous because some people have no restraint, but that's a real thing that occurs where a woman has a tiny torso and large TRIBBLE.
I agree, but I can really see that being abused. You kind of have to draw the line somewhere.
I personally wouldn't particularly mind going through and tweaking my characters a bit if it meant getting increased customisation.
If we could get some sort of guide as to how much we'd need to change to get the old look back (say, move the slider X amount to the right) I wouldn't have any problems with it at all.
How can I stand against getting more customisation options? It may be hard work, but it's worth it!
As someone who's had to spend a lot of time in the tailor tweaking costume after costume to try and put my toons back to how they were before you "updated" character models previously, you'd probably think I'd be against this.
However, and I want to make this point extremely clear, so long as we can get our toons back to the way they were before any changes were made, I say go for it, more options are always good. I'll just have to take another one for the team and spend another couple of evenings (or 5) tweaking my toons again
Although if, as has been suggested in previous posts, you can find a way to offer different body shapes, like you currently do with heads and complexions, that would be even better
Increasing the lower end scale for the bust slider is a good idea.
But would it be possible to have separate sliders for waist (the lower torso) and hips?
Bulking out my Female Andorian tac BOFF is hard, the shoulders bulk, the torso bulks, the hips do (to a certain extent), the stomach slider makes her look pregnant ( :mad: ), making her less tapered would be nice.
Also why do male belts lie on the trouser waistbands but female belts cut the top like a tunic? Is it related?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
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I agree, but I can really see that being abused. You kind of have to draw the line somewhere.
Well as it stands people who create Alien characters can still get around restrictions anyway, and you can't restrict the alien generator.
And the lines just need to be pushed out. It's not just with hip size and bust size.
Why is it that no human or Vulcan etc. can be below 5'6"?
Why isn't there a separate control for forehead size. I end up having to manipulate both head heights and forehead slope, which are not the same as an independent control for the height of the forehead, or the height of the eyebrows above the eyes which are connected to it.
The lines do have to be drawn somewhere...but not where they are.
I personally wouldn't particularly mind going through and tweaking my characters a bit if it meant getting increased customisation.
If we could get some sort of guide as to how much we'd need to change to get the old look back (say, move the slider X amount to the right) I wouldn't have any problems with it at all.
How can I stand against getting more customisation options? It may be hard work, but it's worth it!
Agreed. Especially if the alterations are a simple math kind of thing.
As someone who's had to spend a lot of time in the tailor tweaking costume after costume to try and put my toons back to how they were before you "updated" character models previously, you'd probably think I'd be against this.
However, and I want to make this point extremely clear, so long as we can get our toons back to the way they were before any changes were made, I say go for it, more options are always good. I'll just have to take another one for the team and spend another couple of evenings (or 5) tweaking my toons again
Although if, as has been suggested in previous posts, you can find a way to offer different body shapes, like you currently do with heads and complexions, that would be even better
Also agreed. Even with forty characters I'm all for it. Because for every character that I feel I have perfect I have another character that I feel is just not how I envisioned them.
Different base body shapes would be almost a god send letting us boost over and under what we are currently allowed.
On the subject of body shapes, could you also please separate the buttocks...the gluteus....the posterior from the hips. Those things while connected as a matter of measurement often have wildly different proportions. Wide hips, flat butt, big butt, no hips etc.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I've noticed that several people in this thread are suggesting a simple math-based adjustment for fixing your character appearances. However, they're forgetting one fact:
All the math is behind the scenes. Unlike the sliders for certain graphics settings (which have, to my great annoyance, changed into dropdown menus, forcing me to guess if 'Medium' range is equal to 100% in the old system), character appearance sliders do not have any easily-edited numerical value. That is, they do have a value, but it's not one you can directly access and modify - you have to move the sliders and pray you lined it up right.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
How can I stand against getting more customisation options? It may be hard work, but it's worth it!
Yes, maybe you have a lot of free time to be in the game just for fixing what took you a lot of time to create. Or maybe you didnt spend much time, energy and money on creating your perfect character.. or maybe you just enjoy it.. I dont know.. but for me, and for many others it would be a pain in the TRIBBLE, not really worth it.
I enjoy been on the tailor, creating new corstumes.. but fixing them? 800 coestumes? Is not going to happend, and if I dont feel confortable with my characters, I am not going to feel confortable with the game.
Butt and Waist sliders would be nice too. They would help with the proportioning. A muscle/fat slider would be nice too, but more difficult.
If it means that we are going to get our work destroyed, then no.. if the changes does not affect our characters (or really do it in a small way) then they are welcome.
Comments
I underestend you, beacose you want that over the fact that you are going to loss all your work. That is ok.. but many of us, who dedicated a lot of time not only to get the perfect (to us) toon, that deboted a lot of money with costumes and slots, do not want to loss all that. And today is the TRIBBLE, that is ok, if is a little change I can live with that. The Bust size of my characters is 2.5/5 of the bar, I can live with 2/5. But tomorrow is going to be the hips, or the head, or the foots, and I am not going to change 300 costumes each month!
Sorry, I underestend you, but I spend too much time and money on my characters to loss them.
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I am not going to change 800 costumes.. not when It took me 4 years to make them.
Agree.. but your freedom ends where mines starts. For all I care, give ppl the option to have negative TRIBBLE, like black holes.. or bugs biggers than the moon.. I dont care, but not over the change of 4 years of work.
Some ppl collect ships, some other costumes.. I have more than 10 characters with more than 80 coestumes each, took me 4 years to have that and I am not going to re work it.. that is a matter of fact. And I know I am no the only one, like past events have proben.
Sorry for bad english.
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So, if there is a way to do it, I am still pleading the cause for minimizing the 'minimum' bust size... by making a second torso complexion, whatever else, so it is a reality... <.<
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
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We agree.. this is a TRIBBLE situation and I really hope they can find a solution to make happy both sides, and I trust that with time, crypticjoejing is going to find one.
Division Hispana
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Help us Joejing!
As a side note... if there was second torso 'complexity' option.. they could easily experiment with sliders like waist too... I'd not mind that being place for experiments, if it meant more variety!
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This is really what they need to do.
And they also need to add such an option for head/faces as well, and have the exact same head/faces as pre-Season 9 as an option.
Sure its probally a lot of work, but ALL players win on it.
Changes and improvements can be made without ruining anyones hard work.
If all we're talking about is widening the range on the one slider, there should be no loss at all. I spent less than five minutes coming up with math to do it, and I'm sure the programmers at Cryptic are just as capable of that simple arithmetic as I am. The whole discussion of torsos, body vs costume, and the rest of it is kind of off on a tangent.
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See my post on the first page. They don't even have to change the upper bound. My math should work on any arbitrary lower and upper bounds.
The issues for me haven't been just about one particular body shape, but about the appearance of women in games being forced to look unnatural. All my life I have to deal with that aspect of being in the communities that share my interests.
I think Cryptic does a good job at giving options, but not a great job, and I know it could with the budget.
With STO, to focus on that, it's a turn-off to find that in attempting to have even decently human proportionate, or seemingly real-life calves, thighs, waist, and TRIBBLE variants (as women come in all sizes) requires me to sacrifice another body part to some hideously unrealistic shape.
If I want a waist that is natural to the arm width and chest and hips, then I have to look pregnant or large chested.
If I want natural calves, then I can't have healthy thighs for the rest of the body.
For me, it's not just about preferences, decorating, and RPing, it's also about helping women feel comfortable and noticed in the gaming, fantasy, and sci-fi communities that share their passions.
It's about helping communities feel represented, respected, and safe.
I think more women are coming forward to be heard and seen in these communities amongst the opposite sex, and even amongst sexist and homophobic people which can be intimidating and disturbing, but we still have a long way to go. Anything Cryptic can do to assist in this social evolution, which is way overdue in the world, is excellent. While it should have been considered and built better to begin with, let's move forward. I don't want to adjust my characters after a new system change or addition if possible. But if I have to, I will adjust, because having the option to feel like I can exist in the game as myself and as my dreams-come-to-life, not just as someone else's ideal, or a pregnant alien, is worth it.
(I know that men also have to look pregnant if they want to be larger, and they have the calves issue as well.)
~ Adrianne Grady
@agrady
zomg :eek:
id love it if my female toons werent forced to have oversized milkbags.
make it so
free jkname
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I think you need to distinguish between two mappings.
Slider position to parameter value: This is the relationship between the slider positions and the values of the parameters in the character model. For example, when the "Bust Size" slider is set to minimum, the value of "Breastsize" is -80, and when the "Bust Size" slider is set to maximum, the value of "Breastsize" is 80.
Parameter value to geometry: This determines how character actually looks based on the parameter values.
So far, all of the character model updates have changed the second mapping. This means that everyone's settings stay exactly the same, both the internal parameter values and the slider positions we see the tailor. However, the way that the game interprets those values has changed.
Why can't you change the first mapping instead? This means that the internal parameter values would stay exactly the same, and how the game interprets those values would remain the same. However, the sliders would have a greater range, and everyone would see their slider positions move, even though their characters have not changed.
I'm actually curious why you suggest changing the second mapping instead of the first. Is it because the character artists have easy access to the second mapping, but a programmer would be required to change the first mapping?
I don't think the math you provided is even necessary. The slider positions are not actually stored. Each slider is associated with a parameter that has a range of values.
I would need both extremes of the body types.
Since I don't see any threads on this, I'll post it here, I always wanted to be able to use the old, TOS skirt legs with the modern skirts. But as said earlier there is clipping issues with that. So I suppose the fix matching all the legs should be acceptable....but it just isn't.
The maximum threshold of the legs is still TOO skinny. They're nice, and I applaud the shaping (though knees still look weird from the side) but I'm a thick shapely legs kinda guy. I would've much preferred to stay with the old TOS skirt, than lose those old school style legs. I can understand if the side view would clip, but allowing for them to be wider from the front view would be acceptable to me, though I can't speak for everyone.
And I agree, the inability to make someone generally pudgy without inflicting pregnancy is a bit odd.
I find it weird that people are saying they have had to make corrections to their characters as I haven't experienced anything like that, is that strictly for aliens or any species in general?
I don't have 800 costumes or anything, but I can see how going back to tweak so many can be a pain. But I honestly don't see a way to get around that problem and alter the parameters to increase general choice.
That would certainly add simplicity, just yesterday I had to basically load my normal uniform toon five times into each costume and rebuild the costume on the new face. That's an excellent idea.
To be frank I don't understand why we can't swap pieces overall. Noses, lips, eyes a little mix and match goes a long way. Speaking of noses you guys didn't put in a curved Mediterranean nose. And if I have one face wish, it would be for cheek bone control.
Hear! Hear! Real women have different sized chests! So should my characters!
Exactly. From my tall but athletic Andorian, to my medium curvy Borg, to my Amazonian Klingon doctor.
Another issue but one I can kind of understand and it doesn't inhibit me much is how much actual breast size is tied to torso size. They should be decoupled. I know that can be dangerous because some people have no restraint, but that's a real thing that occurs where a woman has a tiny torso and large TRIBBLE.
I agree, but I can really see that being abused. You kind of have to draw the line somewhere.
If we could get some sort of guide as to how much we'd need to change to get the old look back (say, move the slider X amount to the right) I wouldn't have any problems with it at all.
How can I stand against getting more customisation options? It may be hard work, but it's worth it!
However, and I want to make this point extremely clear, so long as we can get our toons back to the way they were before any changes were made, I say go for it, more options are always good. I'll just have to take another one for the team and spend another couple of evenings (or 5) tweaking my toons again
Although if, as has been suggested in previous posts, you can find a way to offer different body shapes, like you currently do with heads and complexions, that would be even better
But would it be possible to have separate sliders for waist (the lower torso) and hips?
Bulking out my Female Andorian tac BOFF is hard, the shoulders bulk, the torso bulks, the hips do (to a certain extent), the stomach slider makes her look pregnant ( :mad: ), making her less tapered would be nice.
Also why do male belts lie on the trouser waistbands but female belts cut the top like a tunic? Is it related?
Also these plz
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Well as it stands people who create Alien characters can still get around restrictions anyway, and you can't restrict the alien generator.
And the lines just need to be pushed out. It's not just with hip size and bust size.
Why is it that no human or Vulcan etc. can be below 5'6"?
Why isn't there a separate control for forehead size. I end up having to manipulate both head heights and forehead slope, which are not the same as an independent control for the height of the forehead, or the height of the eyebrows above the eyes which are connected to it.
The lines do have to be drawn somewhere...but not where they are. Agreed. Especially if the alterations are a simple math kind of thing.
Also agreed. Even with forty characters I'm all for it. Because for every character that I feel I have perfect I have another character that I feel is just not how I envisioned them.
Different base body shapes would be almost a god send letting us boost over and under what we are currently allowed.
On the subject of body shapes, could you also please separate the buttocks...the gluteus....the posterior from the hips. Those things while connected as a matter of measurement often have wildly different proportions. Wide hips, flat butt, big butt, no hips etc.
All the math is behind the scenes. Unlike the sliders for certain graphics settings (which have, to my great annoyance, changed into dropdown menus, forcing me to guess if 'Medium' range is equal to 100% in the old system), character appearance sliders do not have any easily-edited numerical value. That is, they do have a value, but it's not one you can directly access and modify - you have to move the sliders and pray you lined it up right.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Yes, maybe you have a lot of free time to be in the game just for fixing what took you a lot of time to create. Or maybe you didnt spend much time, energy and money on creating your perfect character.. or maybe you just enjoy it.. I dont know.. but for me, and for many others it would be a pain in the TRIBBLE, not really worth it.
I enjoy been on the tailor, creating new corstumes.. but fixing them? 800 coestumes? Is not going to happend, and if I dont feel confortable with my characters, I am not going to feel confortable with the game.
If it means that we are going to get our work destroyed, then no.. if the changes does not affect our characters (or really do it in a small way) then they are welcome.
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