Is it even physically possible to have 800 costumes?
4 years in this game makes you create a lot of characters.. with just 10 costumes each you have 100.. I have 80 costumes slots and I know a lot of ppl that have more.
I also know ppl that have all the ships in the game, all the sets, all the items and stuff..
I dont even going to make the Undine reputation with any of my characters, so each players decides how to play this game.
To be frank I don't understand why we can't swap pieces overall. Noses, lips, eyes a little mix and match goes a long way. Speaking of noses you guys didn't put in a curved Mediterranean nose. And if I have one face wish, it would be for cheek bone control.
I'd like this too. High cheekbones is one sure-fire easy way of making a character look a little spooky (and vice versa if you want a character to look unthreatening, misleadingly or otherwise), and anyway, I have this Orion who's supposed to be secretly a hybrid. I understand that you can't go allowing pointy ears on an Orion, otherwise where do you stop, but if she could have high cheekbones as well as the slanting eyebrows, I think that would get the general idea across... or at least make it clear that there's something weird going on there. That said, I've seen character faces that look as if they have higher cheekbones, or sharper features somehow, but can't work out how it's done.
I think you need to distinguish between two mappings.
Slider position to parameter value: This is the relationship between the slider positions and the values of the parameters in the character model. For example, when the "Bust size" slider is set to minimum, the value of "Breastsize" is -80, and when the "Bust size" slider is set to maximum, the value of "Breastsize" is 80.
Parameter value to geometry: This determines how character actually looks based on the parameter values.
So far, all of the character model updates have changed the second mapping. This means that everyone's settings stay exactly the same, both the internal parameter values and the slider positions we see the tailor. However, the way that the game interprets those values has changed.
Why can't you change the first mapping instead? This means that the internal parameter values would stay exactly the same, and how the game interprets those values would remain the same. However, the sliders would have a greater range, and everyone would see their slider positions move, even though their characters have not changed.
I'm actually curious why you suggest changing the second mapping instead of the first. Is it because the character artists have easy access to the second mapping, but a programmer would be required to change the first mapping?
Does this idea work? It would certainly be handy. Speaking for myself, while I like the idea of allowing smaller bust size, I never can adjust the body size sliders without a lot of trial and error so I always find it annoying when something causes my characters' appearance to change, because I know I probably don't know how to put it back.
Don't change my character's proportions because of what someone else wants! "Freezing" my costumes so that I won't be affected by changes isn't an option either. I wouldn't be able to create new outfits with my old settings.
In my opinion, the "easy fix" is not the best way to address this issue. I think what's really needed is a "body type" drop down list, which would affect the overall ranges of the sliders. That way, you could have body types like "Standard" (current settings), "Athletic" (for those wanting a smaller bust), "Curvaceous" (or whatever term you'd like to use), and so forth.
You could easily apply the same type of settings to male characters.
Is it possible to add an input field where we can manually type in the percentage? It would make fine-tuned adjustments a lot easier I would suspect.
Also, how about a lock option? Something that locks a given slider, color, costume piece in place.
This might come in handy for when you're hitting the Randomize button and you see a feature that you like, but you want to change other things. You could lock those features in place and then hit the Randomize button again without having to worry about losing those features you like.
It might also work for those worried about losing their characters' looks if something is changed in the editor. With the lock in place, those features then, ideally, shouldn't change.
An additional option that might work along similar lines:
A toggle that allows you to make simultaneous changes across all your toon's costumes.
Say you decide to change your toon's face, but you have 80 costumes. That's a lot of tweaking. With said toggle option, you turn the toggle on and when you edit the face on one costume, it edits the face on all costumes simultaneously. You could change the hair color on all your costumes at the same time, but perhaps you have that one costume where you prefer the hair to be blonde instead of the brown that you just changed all the others to. After you've saved the change, turn the toggle off, then go to that costume slot and change that one's hair color to blonde.
EDIT: BTW, I'm in favor of just about anything that gives us more options.
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...I don't think the math you provided is even necessary. The slider positions are not actually stored. Each slider is associated with a parameter that has a range of values.
As a programmer myself I recognize that there a different ways the data could be stored. Joe's post implied that the slider position (as a percentage) was what was being stored as opposed to the actual value. Personally I would store the value, but that's not the only way to do it. It was from that assumption that my math was born - changing a percent along one set of ranges to a percent along another set of ranges. I think I said that if the raw value is what is being stored then there should be no need for any type of conversion.
As a programmer myself I recognize that there a different ways the data could be stored. Joe's post implied that the slider position (as a percentage) was what was being stored as opposed to the actual value. Personally I would store the value, but that's not the only way to do it. It was from that assumption that my math was born - changing a percent along one set of ranges to a percent along another set of ranges. I think I said that if the raw value is what is being stored then there should be no need for any type of conversion.
Yes, but as I stated in my post above (I'm surprised nobody commented on it), the value can't be directly altered via numerical entry, but must be approximated by the player using the imprecise tool that is the slider. It's like in a CAD program - if you need precision, you DO NOT move the mouse around and pray you get it right. You type in the numbers or coordinates.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Yes, but as I stated in my post above (I'm surprised nobody commented on it), the value can't be directly altered via numerical entry, but must be approximated by the player using the imprecise tool that is the slider. It's like in a CAD program - if you need precision, you DO NOT move the mouse around and pray you get it right. You type in the numbers or coordinates.
That's why I've asked for an input field, or at the very least a display of the percentage's numerical value plus the arrow buttons on the ends of the sliders advancing in increments of 1% allowing for more precise control.
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That's why I've asked for an input field, or at the very least a display of the percentage's numerical value plus the arrow buttons on the ends of the sliders advancing in increments of 1% allowing for more precise control.
Yeah, that's exactly what's needed.
Also, about costume updates:
Bear in mind that I may have overlooked you mentioning that already, but from what I've read, you're complaining about having to load the same costume 80 times, then rebuild the costume you actually want to be there from scratch. You could just save all 80 costumes, alter your face/body on one of them, load that costume in the other 79 slots, followed by loading the costumes belonging in those 79 slots using the 'Only Outfit' option. It is a bit quirky in my experience, though...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Bear in mind that I may have overlooked you mentioning that already, but from what I've read, you're complaining about having to load the same costume 80 times, then rebuild the costume you actually want to be there from scratch. You could just save all 80 costumes, alter your face/body on one of them, load that costume in the other 79 slots, followed by loading the costumes belonging in those 79 slots using the 'Only Outfit' option. It is a bit quirky in my experience, though...
Well, that wasn't actually MY complaint, but someone in here did mention having 80 costumes on one toon. Though, I had suggested a possible solution to some people's concerns with having numerous costume slots and having to make changes across all of them.
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As a programmer myself I recognize that there a different ways the data could be stored. Joe's post implied that the slider position (as a percentage) was what was being stored as opposed to the actual value. Personally I would store the value, but that's not the only way to do it. It was from that assumption that my math was born - changing a percent along one set of ranges to a percent along another set of ranges. I think I said that if the raw value is what is being stored then there should be no need for any type of conversion.
I've noticed that several people in this thread are suggesting a simple math-based adjustment for fixing your character appearances. However, they're forgetting one fact:
All the math is behind the scenes. Unlike the sliders for certain graphics settings (which have, to my great annoyance, changed into dropdown menus, forcing me to guess if 'Medium' range is equal to 100% in the old system), character appearance sliders do not have any easily-edited numerical value. That is, they do have a value, but it's not one you can directly access and modify - you have to move the sliders and pray you lined it up right.
Yes, but as I stated in my post above (I'm surprised nobody commented on it), the value can't be directly altered via numerical entry, but must be approximated by the player using the imprecise tool that is the slider. It's like in a CAD program - if you need precision, you DO NOT move the mouse around and pray you get it right. You type in the numbers or coordinates.
When you save an outfit in the tailor, the game client writes a JPEG file to the screenshots directory. The character data is saved in that file. The data can be read with a text editor, but it cannot be easily edited. The file is protected by a checksum, and attempting to edit the file directly would likely corrupt it.
From my examination of the data, the slider positions are not stored as percentages. Each slider corresponds to a parameter in the character data. Although it is possible that the slider positions are stored as percentages in Cryptic's database, that would be an exceedingly odd implementation. It would mean that they store the data in two different formats: one format for their database and another format for your file system.
For some sliders, the minimum and maximum values of the parameter differ for aliens and human-like species. For example, consider the "Arms Length" slider.
On human-like females, a slider position of 50% would correspond to Arms_Length = 15. The same value would correspond to a slider position of 68.75% on alien females.
For "Bust Size", both alien females and human-like females have the same range of values.
My suggestion would be to increase the range of values for the "Bust Size" slider. For example, change the minimum to -120 and the maximum to 120. As a result, the slider positions would change, but the characters would remain the same. The character data would not change, so no database update would be required.
Does this idea work? It would certainly be handy. Speaking for myself, while I like the idea of allowing smaller bust size, I never can adjust the body size sliders without a lot of trial and error so I always find it annoying when something causes my characters' appearance to change, because I know I probably don't know how to put it back.
There is already some support for this idea in the game, as can be seen from the "Arms Length" example above. However, the "Arms Length" slider scales the arms in only one dimension. The "Bust Size" slider scales the TRIBBLE in three dimensions, which might be more complicated. Scaling the TRIBBLE beyond their original range might introduce clipping problems. But I don't see how the same problems wouldn't arise from uniformly changing every female character's bust size.
When you save an outfit in the tailor, the game client writes a JPEG file to the screenshots directory. The character data is saved in that file. The data can be read with a text editor, but it cannot be easily edited. The file is protected by a checksum, and attempting to edit the file directly would likely corrupt it.
From my examination of the data, the slider positions are not stored as percentages. Each slider corresponds to a parameter in the character data. Although it is possible that the slider positions are stored as percentages in Cryptic's database, that would be an exceedingly odd implementation. It would mean that they store the data in two different formats: one format for their database and another format for your file system.
For some sliders, the minimum and maximum values of the parameter differ for aliens and human-like species. For example, consider the "Arms Length" slider.
On human-like females, a slider position of 50% would correspond to Arms_Length = 15. The same value would correspond to a slider position of 68.75% on alien females.
For "Bust Size", both alien females and human-like females have the same range of values.
My suggestion would be to increase the range of values for the "Bust Size" slider. For example, change the minimum to -120 and the maximum to 120. As a result, the slider positions would change, but the characters would remain the same. The character data would not change, so no database update would be required.
There is already some support for this idea in the game, as can be seen from the "Arms Length" example above. However, the "Arms Length" slider scales the arms in only one dimension. The "Bust Size" slider scales the TRIBBLE in three dimensions, which might be more complicated. Scaling the TRIBBLE beyond their original range might introduce clipping problems. But I don't see how the same problems wouldn't arise from uniformly changing every female character's bust size.
If that is indeed how it works, how it is stored, than this whole thread would seem to be a ruse. If the actual parameter value is what is stored and what drives the whole thing, then changing the range on the slider should not represent the difficulty that Joe is describing in the OP and the whole thing comes off as whiny and like Cryptic is trying to avoid doing something.
If, however, as Joe said, "Reason being, the slider is a percentage of a range - if we shift the min size, that changes what everyone's current settings mean to the result seen on your monitors. This would affect player toons specifically, as NPC's already use the full range available." means that the stored value in the character data is the percentage, then adjusting the min and the max would have a tremendous impact on characters who are not sitting at the sweet spot in the middle.
Remember that just because it is stored in the JPEG file that way doesn't mean the back end is stored that way. Where you say, "that would be an exceedingly odd implementation", I would tend to agree, but I'm not familiar with the quirks of their engine. Maybe there is a "good enough" reason to store the percentage and not the actual value. I have to take Joe's word on that.
If that is indeed how it works, how it is stored, than this whole thread would seem to be a ruse. If the actual parameter value is what is stored and what drives the whole thing, then changing the range on the slider should not represent the difficulty that Joe is describing in the OP and the whole thing comes off as whiny and like Cryptic is trying to avoid doing something.
If, however, as Joe said, "Reason being, the slider is a percentage of a range - if we shift the min size, that changes what everyone's current settings mean to the result seen on your monitors. This would affect player toons specifically, as NPC's already use the full range available." means that the stored value in the character data is the percentage, then adjusting the min and the max would have a tremendous impact on characters who are not sitting at the sweet spot in the middle.
Remember that just because it is stored in the JPEG file that way doesn't mean the back end is stored that way. Where you say, "that would be an exceedingly odd implementation", I would tend to agree, but I'm not familiar with the quirks of their engine. Maybe there is a "good enough" reason to store the percentage and not the actual value. I have to take Joe's word on that.
One thing to remember is that crypticjoejing is a character artist and not a programmer. He may not actually know how the character data is internally represented. Of course, I'm not saying that I know better. I don't have knowledge of 3D modeling; my background is in programming. And I can only tell you what I observe in the data available to me; I don't have access to Cryptic's source code or database.
I don't think crypticjoejing is being whiny. He is simply describing what he thinks is easy or hard as a character artist. One of Cryptic's programmers might have a different view of what is easy or hard. I think it is worth exploring multiple solutions---programming solutions, art solutions, and combined solutions that involve both programming and art.
Another thing to consider is that the actual scaling process might involve multiple reference points. I can think several possibilities:
1. Each body part is represented by one shape that is scaled up or down. (The actual shape might depend on gender, species, and even outfit.)
2. Each body part is represented by two shapes, one shape for the minimum value and another for the maximum value. The game interpolates between the two shapes to draw the body part.
3. Each body part is represented by three or more shapes placed at different points along the scale. The game interpolates between the shapes to draw the body part.
How does changing the range of parameter values affect the scaling process? Does the game engine handle it automatically, or do you have to create new reference shapes?
Having read the Original Post a couple times, and then reading through the thread.
Some like it, some don't care, and a pretty vocal few are yelling Don't Do It!
Don't do it ! This will make me mad because X, Y, and Z
While I sympathise with people who have 80 plus costumes on each of 20 characters , whose costumes use glitched unreplicatable stuff, etc etc etc.
I don't think that it is fair to hold the rest of the player base hostage, and not make a change such as described in the OP.
Players with that many toons and costumes, or whose costumes use now glitched and unacheivable results, etc etc etc made choices to have that many costumes, use that glitch, etc etc etc and just because it will make things annoying to someone who made such a choice, is no reason to deny the rest of the players more options.
One way to look at it, is that by providing the entire playerbase with a larger range of options, it will cause the pixelated video game boobies of some peoples pretend video game women to get smaller. BUT they can easily be made gigantic and ridiculous again by adjusting sliders. Video Game Boobies. Is there anyone who really wants to make "DON'T MAKE MY VIDEO GAME BOOBIES SMALLER !" their personal rage crusade ?
Golly, I hope not.
This is a total win. More Options, and old options still available if I am willing to go change a slider.
Anyone arguing against this is saying that their personal convienience is more important than the thousands of other players in the game, both veteran and those who join from here on out, having a larger and better set of options available to create the toon they want to play.
Thanks Crypticjoejing for being so incredibly communicative about things surrounding the character and costume changes.
I can't support the idea of the change spoken of in the OP enough.
HippieJon was a bit vocal and blunt, but I can't help myself, but agree with him. :P
Also having a total respect for those, who'd not mind a change for the sake of more customization, despite of them having to re-work their costumes. I personally believe, as long as old settings can be set again for those who want them, no harm is done... :rolleyes:
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When you save an outfit in the tailor, the game client writes a JPEG file to the screenshots directory. The character data is saved in that file. The data can be read with a text editor, but it cannot be easily edited. The file is protected by a checksum, and attempting to edit the file directly would likely corrupt it.
This paragraph sounds like you missed the point of my post. I'm not talking about digging into files to do the fixing, I'm talking about making it possible to change the numerical values using the character creator. At the moment, only the sliders exist, and as I already said, using sliders can result in inaccuracy.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Having read the Original Post a couple times, and then reading through the thread.
Some like it, some don't care, and a pretty vocal few are yelling Don't Do It!
Don't do it ! This will make me mad because X, Y, and Z
While I sympathise with people who have 80 plus costumes on each of 20 characters , whose costumes use glitched unreplicatable stuff, etc etc etc.
I dont have any glitched costume, so do not acuse with out knowing.
I don't think that it is fair to hold the rest of the player base hostage, and not make a change such as described in the OP.
The rest? And who is the rest? I dont see any majority in this forum, so why do you suspect that there is a majority in the rest of the game? And why you put the "I dont care" players in your side? If the big majority dont care, maybe dont do it.
Players with that many toons and costumes, or whose costumes use now glitched and unacheivable results, etc etc etc made choices to have that many costumes, use that glitch, etc etc etc and just because it will make things annoying to someone who made such a choice, is no reason to deny the rest of the players more options.
Stop acussing players of useing gliched costumes for god sake! And we made choices to have that many costumes beacose when we did, we never assumed that our work could be in denger.
I can see your logic on the other side: "dont make this changes just to make happy a few players"
Anyone arguing against this is saying that their personal convienience is more important than the thousands of other players in the game, both veteran and those who join from here on out, having a larger and better set of options available to create the toon they want to play.
And how do you know that?? Do you have a study?? Like I said, there is not majority in this forum, why do you assume that there is a majority out there? I bet 90% dont give a TRIBBLE about the changes, and why then you are going to destroy the work of a "few" players to make happy another "few" players?
All we know, is that when they changed a bit of the character, it caused a big riot in the community.. that is why he is aking our opinion.
Also having a total respect for those, who'd not mind a change for the sake of more customization, despite of them having to re-work their costumes. I personally believe, as long as old settings can be set again for those who want them, no harm is done... :rolleyes:
No harm is done for you.. who wants this.. and also, there is no win for the ppl that dont care, so why change this just to make a few players happy? Again, why you put the "I dont care" players in your side? If the big proportion of players see this changes as "mheee" why do it?
Besides, like I said before, this is not a question of majorities, this is a question of respect to the players that make a lot of work with out knowing that is was going to be destroy. I sorry if you want a flat character, but you enter this game KNOWING that you could not do that and you stay knowing that. You assumed that fact, we didnt know that our work was going to be destroyed, we didnt assume that when we spend our real money. And no, dont bring me the little letter in the EULA because yes, I know that they can do what ever they want but that is a legal issue and not a moral one. This change is not something that is game braking, or makes impossible to have a balance game, I can understand those. But this is not the case.
A lo of bad things has been done in the name of majorities.
The rest? And who is the rest? I dont see any majority in this forum, so why do you suspect that there is a majority in the rest of the game? And why you put the "I dont care" players in your side? If the big majority dont care, maybe dont do it.
"The rest" meaning everyone besides "those against" a change. A change will affect EVERYONE: "those for", "those against", and "those that don't care". He's talking about "those against" holding "the rest" hostage to their demands not to change. Simple logic: When you subtract "those against" from the whole, you're left with "those for" and "those that don't care". Whether one or the other constitutes a majority or not is another question. And if a majority don't care, then there's no reason not to do it either, because... they don't care whether it's done or not.
Stop acussing players of useing gliched costumes for god sake! And we made choices to have that many costumes beacose when we did, we never assumed that our work could be in denger.
I can see your logic on the other side: "dont make this changes just to make happy a few players"
Ok, the fact is, some players ARE using glitched costumes, so it's not so much a case of accusation as much as a statement of fact. I've seen plenty of posts elsewhere in the forum of players referencing their glitched costumes. But no one is trying to single you out on this one, so calm down. As far as the multiple costume issue: I sympathize with you. I wouldn't want to have go through 80-800 different costumes trying to readjust them after a change is made. I suspect, though, that such fashionistas would be in the minority of players. Ideally, Cryptic is implementing changes that positively affect the majority of players, and, I'm sorry, but more options are a positive thing.
And how do you know that?? Do you have a study?? Like I said, there is not majority in this forum, why do you assume that there is a majority out there? I bet 90% dont give a TRIBBLE about the changes, and why then you are going to destroy the work of a "few" players to make happy another "few" players?
All we know, is that when they changed a bit of the character, it caused a big riot in the community.. that is why he is aking our opinion.
He doesn't have to have a study, although that is what this particular thread is about: gauging our feelings are on the matter. Again, his point is that EVERYONE gets these new options - "those for", "those against", and "those that don't care." "Those that don't care" (or maybe don't visit the forum and therefore are unaware of the debate) would naturally make up the majority, because only a subset of the player community actually use the forum. Their default choice, therefore, is whatever the outcome happens to be. True, you can't say to do a thing simply because they don't care, but by that same token you can't say not to do a thing because they don't care. You're missing the point, though when you get caught up in polling and majorities: more options is a good thing here and EVERYONE benefits.
And I don't know about any riot. I know I didn't see anyone razing the new ESD to the ground because of a few character changes.
No harm is done for you.. who wants this.. and also, there is no win for the ppl that dont care, so why change this just to make a few players happy? Again, why you put the "I dont care" players in your side? If the big proportion of players see this changes as "mheee" why do it?
Besides, like I said before, this is not a question of majorities, this is a question of respect to the players that make a lot of work with out knowing that is was going to be destroy. I sorry if you want a flat character, but you enter this game KNOWING that you could not do that and you stay knowing that. You assumed that fact, we didnt know that our work was going to be destroyed, we didnt assume that when we spend our real money. And no, don’t bring me the little letter in the EULA because yes, I know that they can do what ever they want but that is a legal issue and not a moral one. This change is not something that is game braking, or makes impossible to have a balance game, I can understand those. But this is not the case.
A lo of bad things has been done in the name of majorities.
Who wants this? Well, that's what this thread is about. And you're wrong, there is a win for "those that don't care": they get more options, just like everyone else. Again, as I said before, your argument of "they don't care, so don't do it" doesn't hold. If they truly don't care, then they'll go with whatever the outcome happens to be. Holding a silent majority up to be for or against an issue doesn't fly.
You're right that this isn't about majorities, though. This is about giving players more options.
Yes, players entered the game knowing that they couldn't create certain characters, types, races, costumes, etc., and yet they've stayed anyway. But you know what? Some things got changed. Some things got added. Caitians and Ferasans weren't options when the game first launched, but now we have them. Many of the costumes we now have were not available when the game first launched, too. We now have greater flexibility in creating more diverse ethnicities in the Tailor. Should these changes have not been made simply because they weren't there when certain players started the game and they knew that they couldn't at that time?
No one's work is going to be "destroyed" by changes being made to the Tailor options. Perhaps a slider gets moved. You CAN move it back. Yes, it's inconvenient, but not unreplicateable. And yes, the EULA does say they can make any changes to the game that they want, including shutting the game down. Talk about destroying all your work.
And you're right about another thing: this change won't break the game.
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"The rest" meaning everyone besides "those against" a change. A change will affect EVERYONE: "those for", "those against", and "those that don't care". He's talking about "those against" holding "the rest" hostage to their demands not to change. Simple logic: When you subtract "those against" from the whole, you're left with "those for" and "those that don't care". Whether one or the other constitutes a majority or not is another question. And if a majority don't care, then there's no reason not to do it either, because... they don't care whether it's done or not.
The ones "who dont care" are not hostage of anyone.. they just dont care. You add them to your side, I add them to my side, but the true is that they dont care, and I bet they are more than 90% of the player base. So, the only ones hostage of this situations are the one that for good or for bad, care about the changes. I am hostage of the players that want the change and they are of the ones that dont want them. This is an imposible situation, and I admit that.. the problem is that some just dont give a dam about others.
although that is what this particular thread is about: gauging our feelings are on the matter. Again, his point is that EVERYONE gets these new options - "those for", "those against", and "those that don't care." "Those that don't care" (or maybe don't visit the forum and therefore are unaware of the debate) would naturally make up the majority, because only a subset of the player community actually use the forum. Their default choice, therefore, is whatever the outcome happens to be. True, you can't say to do a thing simply because they don't care, but by that same token you can't say not to do a thing because they don't care. You're missing the point, though when you get caught up in polling and majorities: more options is a good thing here and EVERYONE benefits.
I can give that logic a turn also: All the players in the game are going to have their costumes changes, all the players on the game are going to have their costumes TRIBBLE, then we are majority.
What you said is not more correct than what I just said. Again, you assume that any change is good, even if destroy other stuff.
Who wants this? Well, that's what this thread is about. And you're wrong, there is a win for "those that don't care": they get more options, just like everyone else. Again, as I said before, your argument of "they don't care, so don't do it" doesn't hold. If they truly don't care, then they'll go with whatever the outcome happens to be. Holding a silent majority up to be for or against an issue doesn't fly.
But they dont care for more options. You know, in many countrys for a change on the costitustion or what ever, you need a certain porsentage, beacose you can not change what is wrting if you dont have a clear majority. You put the ones who dont even go to vote in your side! How so? Who give you that rigth? If 90% (just a stupid number, I dont have a study like some seems to have) dont care about the change, then why do it? Why force the change that many ppl dont care to have in the pleyers that dont want it? Beacose a few want it?
Yes, players entered the game knowing that they couldn't create certain characters, types, races, costumes, etc., and yet they've stayed anyway. But you know what? Some things got changed. Some things got added. Caitians and Ferasans weren't options when the game first launched, but now we have them.
Many of the costumes we now have were not available when the game first launched, too. We now have greater flexibility in creating more diverse ethnicities in the Tailor. Should these changes have not been made simply because they weren't there when certain players started the game and they knew that they couldn't at that time?
Addons are ok, but destroying ppl work is not. Even more for changes that many ppl dont care about it.
Hell, even real and big changes like the Gorn characters are ok, but all this for a change that for what it looks (I dont have a study, I could be wrong) the big majorty of the players base didnt ask for and they are not even going to notice??
And you're right about another thing: this change won't break the game.
For you.. is going to destroyed for some.. and is not going to save the game for anyone.
The biggest different beauties you and me, is that I know this is a No Win Scenario and I really care about players that want to have this option. Some of us takes the character creation really serious (for a game) and I know what it feels to not have the possibility of crating your perfect character. I understand their feelings, and they desires and I want the changes to happened but not by destroying my work. You on the other side, dont give a dam and dont care.. at least I know that my position is 50% wrong and 50% correct, because this is a No Win Scenario.
And like I siad before, this is beyond brest sides, beacose tomorrow is that and the next week is going to be the hips and then month the head, and the next one the feets. I can live with a little change on the brest, but I am not going to live changing my character each time a few players wants a new addition.
Yes, because if you, in all your superiority are the one who determine what is "worth pitching a fit over"
I'm sorry, but you are not the only one who has spent time doing your characters.. and asking everyone to respect your characters, at the cost of possibility of more choices is tad too selfish. I get where you are coming from. I totally do.
But more choices is simply better, especially if you *can* change your costumes back to what they were before. It doesn't even cost you anything, except some time. If your costumes are that important for you, then you imo shouldn't even have a problem with fixing them. I mean, if they add the changes, I too will have to rework my costumes, you know? I perhaps don't have "800 costumes", but it's equally important for me to have certain possibilities which simply currently are not in the game & it gets extremely difficult to respect for someone, who is against more options for rather selfish reasons...
I have utmost respect for people who are able to see this, and who don't go all hostile & are willing to take one for the team, as ultimately, more choices *are* better, especially if people don't lose any previous options.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
I'm sorry, but you are not the only one who has spent time doing your characters.. and asking everyone to respect your characters, at the cost of possibility of more choices is tad too selfish. I get where you are coming from. I totally do.
But more choices is simply better, especially if you *can* change your costumes back to what they were before. It doesn't even cost you anything, except some time. If your costumes are that important for you, then you imo shouldn't even have a problem with fixing them. I mean, if they add the changes, I too will have to rework my costumes, you know? I perhaps don't have "800 costumes", but it's equally important for me to have certain possibilities which simply currently are not in the game & it gets extremely difficult to respect for someone, who is against more options for rather selfish reasons...
I have utmost respect for people who are able to see this, and who don't go all hostile & are willing to take one for the team, as ultimately, more choices *are* better, especially if people don't lose any previous options.
And like I said, I respect you and I understand you position. But dont bring me the "the majority wants this" or "the needs of the many.."
This is a No Win Situation, and crypticjoejing looks like that knows that and that is why he is asking for our opinion.
I dont want the change over the destruction of my characters, and that is a selfish stand. You want the change over the cost, and that is also a selfish stand. Lets not fool our self.
What I would like to know from crypticjoejing,
How big the changes are supose to be more or less 20%? 10%? 50%? More or less, I dont need a exact number and I know that the final number can change.
What other changes can we expect? Like I said, I can live with a small change on the bust, but if each season we are going to have to change our characters we are in trouble.
And like I said, I respect you and I understand you position. But dont bring me the "the majority wants this" or "the needs of the many.."
This is a No Win Situation, and crypticjoejing looks like that knows that and that is why he is asking for our opinion.
I dont want the change over the destruction of my characters, and that is a selfish stand. You want the change over the cost, and that is also a selfish stand. Lets not fool our self.
What I would like to know from crypticjoejing,
How big the changes are supose to be more or less 20%? 10%? 50%? More or less, I dont need a exact number and I know that the final number can change.
What other changes can we expect? Like I said, I can live with a small change on the bust, but if each season we are going to have to change our characters we are in trouble.
Except me supporting this 100% means more options. Whereas your refusal to spend some time to adjust your costumes means less options in the long run - that is what HippieJon meant by those like you holding others hostage, btw... Ultimately, if people like you were in charge, the game would never change or improve anything, because everyone would be stuck in mindset 'But things have been this way forever, why change things at all, even if it in the end, would be nice!'.
Sorry, but improvements & more choices are still far less selfish than your approach... and don't give me the messy answer that people don't want more options. Clearly, character customization is important for a lot of people, and people were complaining about characters being somewhat clone-ish. All kudos for the developpers to consider giving us more possibilities for character customization... even if it means putting some time into re-working the character.
And PS: It is not "destruction of your characters" - again, you would be able to change your characters back.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Except me supporting this 100% means more options. Whereas your refusal to spend some time to adjust your costumes means less options in the long run - that is what HippieJon meant by those like you holding others hostage, btw... Ultimately, if people like you were in charge, the game would never change or improve anything, because everyone would be stuck in mindset 'But things have been this way forever, why change things at all, even if it in the end, would be nice!'.
Sorry, but improvements & more choices are still far less selfish than your approach... and don't give me the messy answer that people don't want more options. Clearly, character customization is important for a lot of people, and people were complaining about characters being somewhat clone-ish. All kudos for the developpers to consider giving us more possibilities for character customization... even if it means putting some time into re-working the character.
If changes are important for the game, they are welcome. If changes are only to make happy a few players and they are also only aesthetic, why dont make the other few happy? Why you and not me? Why me and not you? That is selfish.
Not always changes are good and welcome and your freedom ends where mine begins.
And I know my stand is selfish, but I am not hypocritical about it.
If changes are important for the game, they are welcome. If changes are only to make happy a few players and they are also only aesthetic, why dont make the other few happy? Why you and not me? Why me and not you? That is selfish.
Not always changes are good and welcome and your freedom ends where mine begins.
And I know my stand is selfish, but I am not hypocritical about it.
Statistically... more options are to accomodate more people... so no, I am not as selfish as you are... sorry to say...
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Ok.. I think I made my point really clear and there is not really much to add to what I said, that I know for a fact is what some players feels beside me.
We can go over and over again this circle but we are not getting any where.
Some players are going to be left behaind, some of thouse players give money and trust to cryptic and they are going to be betrayed. Some others wants more options no mattar the cost.
Until I see some new argument here, I wish you all Live Long and Prosper.. and sorry for the bad english, and even I you dont belive me, I want you all get the changes you need, but not at any cost.
Comments
4 years in this game makes you create a lot of characters.. with just 10 costumes each you have 100.. I have 80 costumes slots and I know a lot of ppl that have more.
I also know ppl that have all the ships in the game, all the sets, all the items and stuff..
I dont even going to make the Undine reputation with any of my characters, so each players decides how to play this game.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I'd like this too. High cheekbones is one sure-fire easy way of making a character look a little spooky (and vice versa if you want a character to look unthreatening, misleadingly or otherwise), and anyway, I have this Orion who's supposed to be secretly a hybrid. I understand that you can't go allowing pointy ears on an Orion, otherwise where do you stop, but if she could have high cheekbones as well as the slanting eyebrows, I think that would get the general idea across... or at least make it clear that there's something weird going on there. That said, I've seen character faces that look as if they have higher cheekbones, or sharper features somehow, but can't work out how it's done.
Does this idea work? It would certainly be handy. Speaking for myself, while I like the idea of allowing smaller bust size, I never can adjust the body size sliders without a lot of trial and error so I always find it annoying when something causes my characters' appearance to change, because I know I probably don't know how to put it back.
Don't change my character's proportions because of what someone else wants! "Freezing" my costumes so that I won't be affected by changes isn't an option either. I wouldn't be able to create new outfits with my old settings.
In my opinion, the "easy fix" is not the best way to address this issue. I think what's really needed is a "body type" drop down list, which would affect the overall ranges of the sliders. That way, you could have body types like "Standard" (current settings), "Athletic" (for those wanting a smaller bust), "Curvaceous" (or whatever term you'd like to use), and so forth.
You could easily apply the same type of settings to male characters.
I kid, I kid.
I'm honestly supportive of this proposed solution. The thought of altering my costumes doesn't bug me all that much.
While you're tinkering in there, could maybe the hips silider have its maximum bumped up too? <_<
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Also, how about a lock option? Something that locks a given slider, color, costume piece in place.
This might come in handy for when you're hitting the Randomize button and you see a feature that you like, but you want to change other things. You could lock those features in place and then hit the Randomize button again without having to worry about losing those features you like.
It might also work for those worried about losing their characters' looks if something is changed in the editor. With the lock in place, those features then, ideally, shouldn't change.
An additional option that might work along similar lines:
A toggle that allows you to make simultaneous changes across all your toon's costumes.
Say you decide to change your toon's face, but you have 80 costumes. That's a lot of tweaking. With said toggle option, you turn the toggle on and when you edit the face on one costume, it edits the face on all costumes simultaneously. You could change the hair color on all your costumes at the same time, but perhaps you have that one costume where you prefer the hair to be blonde instead of the brown that you just changed all the others to. After you've saved the change, turn the toggle off, then go to that costume slot and change that one's hair color to blonde.
EDIT: BTW, I'm in favor of just about anything that gives us more options.
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As a programmer myself I recognize that there a different ways the data could be stored. Joe's post implied that the slider position (as a percentage) was what was being stored as opposed to the actual value. Personally I would store the value, but that's not the only way to do it. It was from that assumption that my math was born - changing a percent along one set of ranges to a percent along another set of ranges. I think I said that if the raw value is what is being stored then there should be no need for any type of conversion.
Yes, but as I stated in my post above (I'm surprised nobody commented on it), the value can't be directly altered via numerical entry, but must be approximated by the player using the imprecise tool that is the slider. It's like in a CAD program - if you need precision, you DO NOT move the mouse around and pray you get it right. You type in the numbers or coordinates.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
That's why I've asked for an input field, or at the very least a display of the percentage's numerical value plus the arrow buttons on the ends of the sliders advancing in increments of 1% allowing for more precise control.
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Yeah, that's exactly what's needed.
Also, about costume updates:
Bear in mind that I may have overlooked you mentioning that already, but from what I've read, you're complaining about having to load the same costume 80 times, then rebuild the costume you actually want to be there from scratch. You could just save all 80 costumes, alter your face/body on one of them, load that costume in the other 79 slots, followed by loading the costumes belonging in those 79 slots using the 'Only Outfit' option. It is a bit quirky in my experience, though...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Well, that wasn't actually MY complaint, but someone in here did mention having 80 costumes on one toon. Though, I had suggested a possible solution to some people's concerns with having numerous costume slots and having to make changes across all of them.
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When you save an outfit in the tailor, the game client writes a JPEG file to the screenshots directory. The character data is saved in that file. The data can be read with a text editor, but it cannot be easily edited. The file is protected by a checksum, and attempting to edit the file directly would likely corrupt it.
From my examination of the data, the slider positions are not stored as percentages. Each slider corresponds to a parameter in the character data. Although it is possible that the slider positions are stored as percentages in Cryptic's database, that would be an exceedingly odd implementation. It would mean that they store the data in two different formats: one format for their database and another format for your file system.
For some sliders, the minimum and maximum values of the parameter differ for aliens and human-like species. For example, consider the "Arms Length" slider.
Human-like female
Slider: Arms Length
Parameter: Arms_Length
Minimum: 10
Maximum: 20
Alien female
Slider: Arms Length
Parameter: Arms_Length
Minimum: -40
Maximum: 40
On human-like females, a slider position of 50% would correspond to Arms_Length = 15. The same value would correspond to a slider position of 68.75% on alien females.
For "Bust Size", both alien females and human-like females have the same range of values.
Slider: Bust Size
Parameter: Breastsize
Minimum: -80
Maximum: 80
My suggestion would be to increase the range of values for the "Bust Size" slider. For example, change the minimum to -120 and the maximum to 120. As a result, the slider positions would change, but the characters would remain the same. The character data would not change, so no database update would be required.
There is already some support for this idea in the game, as can be seen from the "Arms Length" example above. However, the "Arms Length" slider scales the arms in only one dimension. The "Bust Size" slider scales the TRIBBLE in three dimensions, which might be more complicated. Scaling the TRIBBLE beyond their original range might introduce clipping problems. But I don't see how the same problems wouldn't arise from uniformly changing every female character's bust size.
2. an "make every Johnny Bravo guy invisible" Button. Hu Ha Hu
3. we need a slider for CS's banner
If that is indeed how it works, how it is stored, than this whole thread would seem to be a ruse. If the actual parameter value is what is stored and what drives the whole thing, then changing the range on the slider should not represent the difficulty that Joe is describing in the OP and the whole thing comes off as whiny and like Cryptic is trying to avoid doing something.
If, however, as Joe said, "Reason being, the slider is a percentage of a range - if we shift the min size, that changes what everyone's current settings mean to the result seen on your monitors. This would affect player toons specifically, as NPC's already use the full range available." means that the stored value in the character data is the percentage, then adjusting the min and the max would have a tremendous impact on characters who are not sitting at the sweet spot in the middle.
Remember that just because it is stored in the JPEG file that way doesn't mean the back end is stored that way. Where you say, "that would be an exceedingly odd implementation", I would tend to agree, but I'm not familiar with the quirks of their engine. Maybe there is a "good enough" reason to store the percentage and not the actual value. I have to take Joe's word on that.
One thing to remember is that crypticjoejing is a character artist and not a programmer. He may not actually know how the character data is internally represented. Of course, I'm not saying that I know better. I don't have knowledge of 3D modeling; my background is in programming. And I can only tell you what I observe in the data available to me; I don't have access to Cryptic's source code or database.
I don't think crypticjoejing is being whiny. He is simply describing what he thinks is easy or hard as a character artist. One of Cryptic's programmers might have a different view of what is easy or hard. I think it is worth exploring multiple solutions---programming solutions, art solutions, and combined solutions that involve both programming and art.
Another thing to consider is that the actual scaling process might involve multiple reference points. I can think several possibilities:
1. Each body part is represented by one shape that is scaled up or down. (The actual shape might depend on gender, species, and even outfit.)
2. Each body part is represented by two shapes, one shape for the minimum value and another for the maximum value. The game interpolates between the two shapes to draw the body part.
3. Each body part is represented by three or more shapes placed at different points along the scale. The game interpolates between the shapes to draw the body part.
How does changing the range of parameter values affect the scaling process? Does the game engine handle it automatically, or do you have to create new reference shapes?
Some like it, some don't care, and a pretty vocal few are yelling Don't Do It!
Don't do it ! This will make me mad because X, Y, and Z
While I sympathise with people who have 80 plus costumes on each of 20 characters , whose costumes use glitched unreplicatable stuff, etc etc etc.
I don't think that it is fair to hold the rest of the player base hostage, and not make a change such as described in the OP.
Players with that many toons and costumes, or whose costumes use now glitched and unacheivable results, etc etc etc made choices to have that many costumes, use that glitch, etc etc etc and just because it will make things annoying to someone who made such a choice, is no reason to deny the rest of the players more options.
One way to look at it, is that by providing the entire playerbase with a larger range of options, it will cause the pixelated video game boobies of some peoples pretend video game women to get smaller. BUT they can easily be made gigantic and ridiculous again by adjusting sliders. Video Game Boobies. Is there anyone who really wants to make "DON'T MAKE MY VIDEO GAME BOOBIES SMALLER !" their personal rage crusade ?
Golly, I hope not.
This is a total win. More Options, and old options still available if I am willing to go change a slider.
Anyone arguing against this is saying that their personal convienience is more important than the thousands of other players in the game, both veteran and those who join from here on out, having a larger and better set of options available to create the toon they want to play.
Thanks Crypticjoejing for being so incredibly communicative about things surrounding the character and costume changes.
I can't support the idea of the change spoken of in the OP enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoqDYcCDOTg
Peace, Love and Strawberries
Also having a total respect for those, who'd not mind a change for the sake of more customization, despite of them having to re-work their costumes. I personally believe, as long as old settings can be set again for those who want them, no harm is done... :rolleyes:
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
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This paragraph sounds like you missed the point of my post. I'm not talking about digging into files to do the fixing, I'm talking about making it possible to change the numerical values using the character creator. At the moment, only the sliders exist, and as I already said, using sliders can result in inaccuracy.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I dont have any glitched costume, so do not acuse with out knowing.
The rest? And who is the rest? I dont see any majority in this forum, so why do you suspect that there is a majority in the rest of the game? And why you put the "I dont care" players in your side? If the big majority dont care, maybe dont do it.
Stop acussing players of useing gliched costumes for god sake! And we made choices to have that many costumes beacose when we did, we never assumed that our work could be in denger.
I can see your logic on the other side: "dont make this changes just to make happy a few players"
And how do you know that?? Do you have a study?? Like I said, there is not majority in this forum, why do you assume that there is a majority out there? I bet 90% dont give a TRIBBLE about the changes, and why then you are going to destroy the work of a "few" players to make happy another "few" players?
All we know, is that when they changed a bit of the character, it caused a big riot in the community.. that is why he is aking our opinion.
No harm is done for you.. who wants this.. and also, there is no win for the ppl that dont care, so why change this just to make a few players happy? Again, why you put the "I dont care" players in your side? If the big proportion of players see this changes as "mheee" why do it?
Besides, like I said before, this is not a question of majorities, this is a question of respect to the players that make a lot of work with out knowing that is was going to be destroy. I sorry if you want a flat character, but you enter this game KNOWING that you could not do that and you stay knowing that. You assumed that fact, we didnt know that our work was going to be destroyed, we didnt assume that when we spend our real money. And no, dont bring me the little letter in the EULA because yes, I know that they can do what ever they want but that is a legal issue and not a moral one. This change is not something that is game braking, or makes impossible to have a balance game, I can understand those. But this is not the case.
A lo of bad things has been done in the name of majorities.
I have a better video: http://youtu.be/ibEJoNyDDgw?t=7s
Sorry for bad english.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
No one singled you out to accuse you of anything. Calm down.
"The rest" meaning everyone besides "those against" a change. A change will affect EVERYONE: "those for", "those against", and "those that don't care". He's talking about "those against" holding "the rest" hostage to their demands not to change. Simple logic: When you subtract "those against" from the whole, you're left with "those for" and "those that don't care". Whether one or the other constitutes a majority or not is another question. And if a majority don't care, then there's no reason not to do it either, because... they don't care whether it's done or not.
Ok, the fact is, some players ARE using glitched costumes, so it's not so much a case of accusation as much as a statement of fact. I've seen plenty of posts elsewhere in the forum of players referencing their glitched costumes. But no one is trying to single you out on this one, so calm down. As far as the multiple costume issue: I sympathize with you. I wouldn't want to have go through 80-800 different costumes trying to readjust them after a change is made. I suspect, though, that such fashionistas would be in the minority of players. Ideally, Cryptic is implementing changes that positively affect the majority of players, and, I'm sorry, but more options are a positive thing.
He doesn't have to have a study, although that is what this particular thread is about: gauging our feelings are on the matter. Again, his point is that EVERYONE gets these new options - "those for", "those against", and "those that don't care." "Those that don't care" (or maybe don't visit the forum and therefore are unaware of the debate) would naturally make up the majority, because only a subset of the player community actually use the forum. Their default choice, therefore, is whatever the outcome happens to be. True, you can't say to do a thing simply because they don't care, but by that same token you can't say not to do a thing because they don't care. You're missing the point, though when you get caught up in polling and majorities: more options is a good thing here and EVERYONE benefits.
And I don't know about any riot. I know I didn't see anyone razing the new ESD to the ground because of a few character changes.
Who wants this? Well, that's what this thread is about. And you're wrong, there is a win for "those that don't care": they get more options, just like everyone else. Again, as I said before, your argument of "they don't care, so don't do it" doesn't hold. If they truly don't care, then they'll go with whatever the outcome happens to be. Holding a silent majority up to be for or against an issue doesn't fly.
You're right that this isn't about majorities, though. This is about giving players more options.
Yes, players entered the game knowing that they couldn't create certain characters, types, races, costumes, etc., and yet they've stayed anyway. But you know what? Some things got changed. Some things got added. Caitians and Ferasans weren't options when the game first launched, but now we have them. Many of the costumes we now have were not available when the game first launched, too. We now have greater flexibility in creating more diverse ethnicities in the Tailor. Should these changes have not been made simply because they weren't there when certain players started the game and they knew that they couldn't at that time?
No one's work is going to be "destroyed" by changes being made to the Tailor options. Perhaps a slider gets moved. You CAN move it back. Yes, it's inconvenient, but not unreplicateable. And yes, the EULA does say they can make any changes to the game that they want, including shutting the game down. Talk about destroying all your work.
And you're right about another thing: this change won't break the game.
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He does.
The ones "who dont care" are not hostage of anyone.. they just dont care. You add them to your side, I add them to my side, but the true is that they dont care, and I bet they are more than 90% of the player base. So, the only ones hostage of this situations are the one that for good or for bad, care about the changes. I am hostage of the players that want the change and they are of the ones that dont want them. This is an imposible situation, and I admit that.. the problem is that some just dont give a dam about others.
No one here said that, so why assume that if I am againts the change I have gliched costumes?
He does if he claims that the majority wants this change.
I can give that logic a turn also: All the players in the game are going to have their costumes changes, all the players on the game are going to have their costumes TRIBBLE, then we are majority.
What you said is not more correct than what I just said. Again, you assume that any change is good, even if destroy other stuff.
Looks like you were not on the forums in S8. Why do you think we are having this discuccion? The devs knows that changes like this are problematic.
But they dont care for more options. You know, in many countrys for a change on the costitustion or what ever, you need a certain porsentage, beacose you can not change what is wrting if you dont have a clear majority. You put the ones who dont even go to vote in your side! How so? Who give you that rigth? If 90% (just a stupid number, I dont have a study like some seems to have) dont care about the change, then why do it? Why force the change that many ppl dont care to have in the pleyers that dont want it? Beacose a few want it?
Or not destroying the players hard work.. you see.. your logic can be turn also.
They didnt destroy ppl work for that.
Addons are ok, but destroying ppl work is not. Even more for changes that many ppl dont care about it.
Hell, even real and big changes like the Gorn characters are ok, but all this for a change that for what it looks (I dont have a study, I could be wrong) the big majorty of the players base didnt ask for and they are not even going to notice??
For you.. is going to destroyed for some.. and is not going to save the game for anyone.
The biggest different beauties you and me, is that I know this is a No Win Scenario and I really care about players that want to have this option. Some of us takes the character creation really serious (for a game) and I know what it feels to not have the possibility of crating your perfect character. I understand their feelings, and they desires and I want the changes to happened but not by destroying my work. You on the other side, dont give a dam and dont care.. at least I know that my position is 50% wrong and 50% correct, because this is a No Win Scenario.
And like I siad before, this is beyond brest sides, beacose tomorrow is that and the next week is going to be the hips and then month the head, and the next one the feets. I can live with a little change on the brest, but I am not going to live changing my character each time a few players wants a new addition.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
It will sorta suck if it affects current characters, but I'm starting to get used to having to tweak after patches....so let 'er rip.
I appreciate more options.
Yes, because if you, in all your superiority are the one who determine what is "worth pitching a fit over"
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
But more choices is simply better, especially if you *can* change your costumes back to what they were before. It doesn't even cost you anything, except some time. If your costumes are that important for you, then you imo shouldn't even have a problem with fixing them. I mean, if they add the changes, I too will have to rework my costumes, you know? I perhaps don't have "800 costumes", but it's equally important for me to have certain possibilities which simply currently are not in the game & it gets extremely difficult to respect for someone, who is against more options for rather selfish reasons...
I have utmost respect for people who are able to see this, and who don't go all hostile & are willing to take one for the team, as ultimately, more choices *are* better, especially if people don't lose any previous options.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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And like I said, I respect you and I understand you position. But dont bring me the "the majority wants this" or "the needs of the many.."
This is a No Win Situation, and crypticjoejing looks like that knows that and that is why he is asking for our opinion.
I dont want the change over the destruction of my characters, and that is a selfish stand. You want the change over the cost, and that is also a selfish stand. Lets not fool our self.
What I would like to know from crypticjoejing,
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Sorry, but improvements & more choices are still far less selfish than your approach... and don't give me the messy answer that people don't want more options. Clearly, character customization is important for a lot of people, and people were complaining about characters being somewhat clone-ish. All kudos for the developpers to consider giving us more possibilities for character customization... even if it means putting some time into re-working the character.
And PS: It is not "destruction of your characters" - again, you would be able to change your characters back.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
If changes are important for the game, they are welcome. If changes are only to make happy a few players and they are also only aesthetic, why dont make the other few happy? Why you and not me? Why me and not you? That is selfish.
Not always changes are good and welcome and your freedom ends where mine begins.
And I know my stand is selfish, but I am not hypocritical about it.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
We can go over and over again this circle but we are not getting any where.
Some players are going to be left behaind, some of thouse players give money and trust to cryptic and they are going to be betrayed. Some others wants more options no mattar the cost.
For the moment, I am just going to re post this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibEJoNyDDgw&feature=youtu.be&t=7s
Until I see some new argument here, I wish you all Live Long and Prosper.. and sorry for the bad english, and even I you dont belive me, I want you all get the changes you need, but not at any cost.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com