Hi all i have been having a issue with none of my ships turning correctly they all turn on a flat and very slow circle with no banking. It turns out it may be related to the controller / joystick problem as using my keyboard WASD they all work fine. However the keyboard is not my control of choice I use a xbox 360 wired controller and have done as long as I have been playing. I agree with everyone here this is a major issue and is stopping me from enjoying this game. No point playing if you don't enjoy it please fix this issue ASAP .
I am using as mentioned a wired xbox controller running on windows 7
Hi all i have been having a issue with none of my ships turning correctly they all turn on a flat and very slow circle with no banking. It turns out it may be related to the controller / joystick problem as using my keyboard WASD they all work fine. However the keyboard is not my control of choice I use a xbox 360 wired controller and have done as long as I have been playing. I agree with everyone here this is a major issue and is stopping me from enjoying this game. No point playing if you don't enjoy it please fix this issue ASAP .
I am using as mentioned a wired xbox controller running on windows 7
You're one of the lucky ones, x-box controllers still work somewhat, those of us with direct input controllers however are out of luck completely for now. Makes me kind of sad considering there's a time limit on when certain rewards are available for the new featured episode, we may miss out on it because we can't fly our ships, or move around on ground.
A "community manager" "investigating" by pointlessly asking for everyone's exact hardware and OS is VERY different from QA verification that the problem exists. Users say all kinds of nonsense. QA verification is what matters.
Because it's not considered a "known issue". Generally, a known issue will be one that a developer or QA has verified. None of them use joysticks, so no confirmation of the issue.
Because they don't use Tribble for feedback. They get telemetry from the client and don't listen to anything players write.
It's very obvious that S9's patch changed the way STO handles input. (just look at the keyboard config changes) That Xbox controllers are reported to work puts a giant bullseye on STO's handling of DX's DirectInput as the culprit. (Xbox controllers and controllers in "X" mode use Xinput, while all other joysticks use DirectInput)
The existance of the problem is obvious and immediate to anyone with a joystick. The culprit is obvious from the reported data. The fix may actually be very hard if STO was previously using DirectInput for mouse/keyboard and has now ripped out DirectInput entirely in favor of windows message loop. If that's the case, then they'll have to have someone go back into the code and figure out how to convince DirectInput to work with joysticks without messing up the new system they put in place for mouse/keyboard.
Personally, I have no interest in playing the game unless they fix it. Since S9 was relased, all I've done is get some rep projects going each day. A space flight sim game without joystick support is a nonstarter for me.
No! Really? You dont say. You considered that maybe smirk put "investigating" because the devs are actually investigating? And he was told to notify us they are working on a solution? Which he has stated, they are working on a fix.
You are right on one thing tho, some users do say all kinds of nonsense :P
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I cant find any reasonable explanation that will make the devs to have so many troubles fixing this issue lol. They are just lazy. They need to work on the important things first (money) and after that, if they remember this, they will try to fix it. Only if it is not too much trouble. lol. Thats the way cryptic works.
Honestly i will recommend the guys that uses controler / joystick that you should start using keyboard / mouse if you can, cuz i dont even think cryptic will have the guts to fix this. I saw so many bugs with the label "team is investigating" already over the forums and a lot of em were never fixed. Just saying.
I think a major part of why this bug was allowed to happen is because the devs test with the default settings.
You see the default setting for space flight is having the cameras set to "Follow Target" mode which makes the ship movement like any overhead view game, in which wasd movement is somewhat viable.
However, most of us who use a controller/joystick to fly out ships, do so with the camera set to "Chase mode" so it feels like we are actually flying the ship and not moving an object around from above.
None of them know what it's like to use a controller to "fly" the ship.
Because using a controller to play STO is not recommended. But that is not the point anyways.
I personally don't see how players who do use the keyboard can do it on ground or in space the movement just feels "clunky" and not smooth and fluid like it is with a controller and the proper camera settings. I've honestly tried playing with keyboard and mouse these past few days and it just feels unnatural, and actually hurts sometimes when there's a lot of movement involved , like in ground combat. But I blame that on my arthritis.
No! Really? You dont say. You considered that maybe smirk put "investigating" because the devs are actually investigating?
How much investigation does it take? "Plug in joystick, joystick doesn't work, issue verified." Since the issue is not on the known issues list, it has not been verified by QA or development. This isn't an issue with a specific driver or specific piece of hardware. It's broad spectrum and obvious. Windows hasn't needed specific drivers for joystick input in 15 years or so. All joysticks go through DirectInput (with Xbox controllers going through Xinput).
S9 changed how STO takes input. The issue is was also reported on tribble. If STO's QA had a joystick, they would have noticed it, as players on Tribble did.
The investigation part of this particular problem is easy and obvious. The solution may not be, depending on what exactly they did with the old DirectInput code. Any developer working on that code should have realized the implication, or at least tested whether what they were doing would affect joysticks. This change was sloppy and should have been held back until it was ready. While STO's input handling has been pretty atrocious from the begining and needed serious overhaul, it should not have gone forward in this state. They could have released the content in S9 without the input changes.
And he was told to notify us they are working on a solution? Which he has stated, they are working on a fix.
Yes, as a "community manager", it's his job to say whatever will mollify the community. Do you really take everything you're told by PR reps at face value? You'll notice he wrote "the team" was investigating. He didn't say which team. You took it to mean the developers. I took it to me the community managers, who are investigating by pointlessly asking for everyone's specific hardware and OS, as if this was a narrow issue with some specific hardware. It's not, and obviously not, and the DirectInput joystick code has remained stable since Windows XP.
He also did NOT say they were working on a solution. That part came out of your imagination. That's what I good PR guy does. He says very little, but gives the impression of much more.
The community managers have most likely taken the info in this thread and filed a report. That's as far as community managers can go. QA clearly doesn't actually have a joystick and will ignore this issue until they manage to aquire one, because they have no other way of reproducing the issue.
You are right on one thing tho, some users do say all kinds of nonsense :P
I personally don't see how players who do use the keyboard can do it on ground or in space the movement just feels "clunky" and not smooth and fluid like it is with a controller and the proper camera settings. I've honestly tried playing with keyboard and mouse these past few days and it just feels unnatural, and actually hurts sometimes when there's a lot of movement involved , like in ground combat. But I blame that on my arthritis.
I dont have a clue what you mean... its not about feelling natural, what the hell, you are playing a game, you are not flying a real starship!!! if you wish to feel "real" , go to the real starship and touch the screen of the consoles , you will see that feels even less natural... what is it matter if it is a keyboard or a controller, lol. Anyways, if you are not used to the keyboard / mouse (you are a video console user) its natural that you dont feel comfortable. But for people who does, they will never change a kayboard/mouse for a gamepad. EVER. And i can tell you because i tried both, for a lot of years, and in the end, i always chose keyboard / mouse. In almost every game. With the exception of course to the fighting games, i use an stick on those lol.
And as you say, if you have problems in your hands , well thats another story (i should start reading from there.. sorry lol).
I dont have a clue what you mean... its not about feelling natural, what the hell, you are playing a game, you are not flying a real starship!!! if you wish to feel "real" , go to the real starship and touch the screen of the consoles , you will see that feels even less natural... what is it matter if it is a keyboard or a controller, lol. Anyways, if you are not used to the keyboard / mouse (you are a video console user) its natural that you dont feel comfortable. But for people who does, they will never change a kayboard/mouse for a gamepad. EVER. And i can tell you because i tried both, for a lot of years, and in the end, i always chose keyboard / mouse. In almost every game. With the exception of course to the fighting games, i use an stick on those lol.
And as you say, if you have problems in your hands , well thats another story (i should start reading from there.. sorry lol).
Maybe it that having the accuracy of the analog stick when turning has spoiled me, both in space and on ground. It's especially apparent on ground where if you walk forward with the keyboard you're locked into a jog and turns with "A" and "D" are basically making a 1/8 turn with each key press. With the controller I can move as fast or slowly forward as I want and turn as fast or as slow as I want all due to the analog control.
I will admit something to those that have tried sticks on ground and found them lacking, I did too originally, until I realized that by default moving the left and right (at least with the dual action), strafes to the left and right and the right stick left/right controls camera rotation. By simply swapping these 2 inputs it improves movement so much.
How much investigation does it take? "Plug in joystick, joystick doesn't work, issue verified." Since the issue is not on the known issues list, it has not been verified by QA or development. This isn't an issue with a specific driver or specific piece of hardware. It's broad spectrum and obvious. Windows hasn't needed specific drivers for joystick input in 15 years or so. All joysticks go through DirectInput (with Xbox controllers going through Xinput).
S9 changed how STO takes input. The issue is was also reported on tribble. If STO's QA had a joystick, they would have noticed it, as players on Tribble did.
The investigation part of this particular problem is easy and obvious. The solution may not be, depending on what exactly they did with the old DirectInput code. Any developer working on that code should have realized the implication, or at least tested whether what they were doing would affect joysticks. This change was sloppy and should have been held back until it was ready. While STO's input handling has been pretty atrocious from the begining and needed serious overhaul, it should not have gone forward in this state. They could have released the content in S9 without the input changes.
Yes, as a "community manager", it's his job to say whatever will mollify the community. Do you really take everything you're told by PR reps at face value? You'll notice he wrote "the team" was investigating. He didn't say which team. You took it to mean the developers. I took it to me the community managers, who are investigating by pointlessly asking for everyone's specific hardware and OS, as if this was a narrow issue with some specific hardware. It's not, and obviously not, and the DirectInput joystick code has remained stable since Windows XP.
He also did NOT say they were working on a solution. That part came out of your imagination. That's what I good PR guy does. He says very little, but gives the impression of much more.
The community managers have most likely taken the info in this thread and filed a report. That's as far as community managers can go. QA clearly doesn't actually have a joystick and will ignore this issue until they manage to aquire one, because they have no other way of reproducing the issue.
Yes, yes, they do.
Well, i saved my controllers, keybinds, profile to .txt file. I found mine, to be the same file as it has been for the last 3 yrs. It hasn't changed. So, i am thinking, it is something else causing the problem. What you found on your side, is just one person. What i have found is just one person. So, to me, it could be anything.But you are making out it is the direct input when you just may well be wrong.
So, unless you are a programmer, you know nothing about coding. I know nothing about coding but i dont make out i do. So, how is what i am saying nonsense? If anything, you are talking nonsense.
No, i do not take everything at face value. But, everytime they have said "investigating", they were investigating and DID fix the problem.
Prime example, " We are "INVESTIGATING", why no one can log in", thats happened many of times and guess what? THEY FIXED IT I could throw many of examples out, but i doubt you will see my points as you have already trolled me by saying i talk nonsense.
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
Well, i saved my controllers, keybinds, profile to .txt file. I found mine, to be the same file as it has been for the last 3 yrs. It hasn't changed. So, i am thinking, it is something else causing the problem. What you found on your side, is just one person. What i have found is just one person. So, to me, it could be anything.But you are making out it is the direct input when you just may well be wrong.
So, unless you are a programmer, you know nothing about coding. I know nothing about coding but i dont make out i do. So, how is what i am saying nonsense? If anything, you are talking nonsense.
No, i do not take everything at face value. But, everytime they have said "investigating", they were investigating and DID fix the problem.
Prime example, " We are "INVESTIGATING", why no one can log in", thats happened many of times and guess what? THEY FIXED IT I could throw many of examples out, but i doubt you will see my points as you have already trolled me by saying i talk nonsense.
Of COURSE they're going to fix the login issues. If no one can log in, they can't make money. i.e. no zen purchases. Since so many people play with a keyboard/mouse, it's not going to be at the top of their "fix" list. Why? Because people with keyboard/mouse inputs will still buy their precious zen.
The problem is with direct input and custom binds. I on a whim logged into one of my lesser used characters and set everything to default, except turning controllers on. I then saved the bind file. What did I see when I opened up that file? A completely blank text file, that's right, if you don't change any keybinds your bind file is blank. So even if they had tested this, knowing the devs they wouldn't changed any of the button assignments from default, or stick axises etc. still didn't work at defaults though.
Like it's been said the majority of players use keyboard and mouse, I just can't. I find flying a ship in chase mode with the keyboard to be too cumbersome, especially when trying to adjust pitch (up/down) at the same time as turning.
But because of this the devs don't seem to test at anything but default settings. Or like some players the ones that did use sticks to play used outside binding programs that assign key presses to the stick/buttons. I have said before I find these programs both lame and lacking.
Of COURSE they're going to fix the login issues. If no one can log in, they can't make money. i.e. no zen purchases. Since so many people play with a keyboard/mouse, it's not going to be at the top of their "fix" list. Why? Because people with keyboard/mouse inputs will still buy their precious zen.
They already got all the money I'm ever going to give them, in fact I'm getting $5 worth of zen from them at the beginning of every month. The issue though is I still like(d) to play this game I would spend that 500 zen to buy the occasional key, open up a couple lock boxes, or buy doff slots, etc. Now since I can't control my ship or my ground crew worth a damn with keyboard controls I'm stuck when I log in to just doing a few doff missions.
Well, i saved my controllers, keybinds, profile to .txt file. I found mine, to be the same file as it has been for the last 3 yrs. It hasn't changed. So, i am thinking, it is something else causing the problem. What you found on your side, is just one person. What i have found is just one person. So, to me, it could be anything.But you are making out it is the direct input when you just may well be wrong.
So, unless you are a programmer, you know nothing about coding. I know nothing about coding but i dont make out i do. So, how is what i am saying nonsense? If anything, you are talking nonsense.
I am a programmer. I make a living administering a system considerably more complex than STO. You are talking nonsense.
No, i do not take everything at face value. But, everytime they have said "investigating", they were investigating and DID fix the problem.
My KDF characters still can't change uniform after more than a year. They were "investigating" that one for quite a while, had it show up in the known issues for a while, eventually dropped it off. Still can't change costume slots.
Prime example, " We are "INVESTIGATING", why no one can log in", thats happened many of times and guess what? THEY FIXED IT I could throw many of examples out, but i doubt you will see my points as you have already trolled me by saying i talk nonsense.
That issue is so completely different that there is no comparison. Let me explain to you how bugs get fixed in these sorts of systems:
1) Users report problem to support.
2) Support decides there is something to it, forwards to QA.
3) QA attempts to replicate the issue.
4) If QA replicates the issue, the bug is sent to development.
5) Development fixes bug, pushes to test environment.
6) QA verifies on test environment.
7) Fix is pushed to production system.
If QA can't replicate the issue, it is unlikely to be forwarded to development for a real fix. This is because Developer time is more expensive than QA time, and QA time is more expensive than support.
I'm using a Logitech 3D Pro, windows 7 Professional. Brand new gaming rig. Was all working fine as of Wednesday night. As of today all I can do is turn left and right no up or down. Really a bummer!
EDIT - So I have the 'twist' mapped to the A and D keys, this is the way I've been doing it for years. However the game is no longer seeing the x and Y axis...I can't go up and down.
I quote the players above... i COULD play without a joystick, and indeed i tried to do so... but for me isn't fun anymore to play without the shortcuts and the keybinds on joystick buttons i used to.
Indeed i played only 3 mission from the start of S9, i don't wanna "adapt" again in a new way to play... too much "stress"...
Not "the direct input", it is "DirectInput". DirectInput is Microsoft's old API for dealing with input in DirectX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directinput
I am a programmer. I make a living administering a system considerably more complex than STO. You are talking nonsense.
My KDF characters still can't change uniform after more than a year. They were "investigating" that one for quite a while, had it show up in the known issues for a while, eventually dropped it off. Still can't change costume slots.
That issue is so completely different that there is no comparison. Let me explain to you how bugs get fixed in these sorts of systems:
1) Users report problem to support.
2) Support decides there is something to it, forwards to QA.
3) QA attempts to replicate the issue.
4) If QA replicates the issue, the bug is sent to development.
5) Development fixes bug, pushes to test environment.
6) QA verifies on test environment.
7) Fix is pushed to production system.
If QA can't replicate the issue, it is unlikely to be forwarded to development for a real fix. This is because Developer time is more expensive than QA time, and QA time is more expensive than support.
Well, i didnt know that, IF that is how they work that is.
Either way, i hope its fixed quick.
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I quote the players above... i COULD play without a joystick, and indeed i tried to do so... but for me isn't fun anymore to play without the shortcuts and the keybinds on joystick buttons i used to.
Indeed i played only 3 mission from the start of S9, i don't wanna "adapt" again in a new way to play... too much "stress"...
Please, fix that BIG bug as soon as possible....
I agree, I've been trying to play with the keyboard and mouse and it's just not the same as with the controller. Maybe it's because I set up the controller specifically for me using in game binds and settings, to allow me to use all the thing I would want on either ground or in space.
Some have suggested 3rd party binding programs, but problem is they aren't as versatile with 2 button binds as I could get in game and my setup relies on a lot of 2 button binds.
I agree, I've been trying to pay with the keyboard and mouse and it's just not the same as with the controller. Maybe it's because I set up the controller specifically for me using in game binds and settings, to allow me to use all the thing I would want on either ground or in space.
Some have suggested 3rd party binding programs, but problem is they aren't as versatile with 2 button binds as I could get in game and my setup relies on a lot of 2 button binds.
Same here. I use 1 trigger button on my dual action as a " control" key from k/b. Another button as "alt" and another as "tab". Then i have the D pad as my skill trays.
The most annoying things for me, is i have no camera movement or character movement. Everything else is still working. It's just those 2 things. I hate wasd cause its either run or jog and its sudden, like its either on or off, and there is no walking. Same with turning.
I'm finding it very difficult to play atm and feel like just giving up.
So, i do hope this is fixed REAL SOON
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
Same here. I use 1 trigger button on my dual action as a " control" key from k/b. Another button as "alt" and another as "tab". Then i have the D pad as my skill trays.
The most annoying things for me, is i have no camera movement or character movement. Everything else is still working. It's just those 2 things. I hate wasd cause its either run or jog and its sudden, like its either on or off, and there is no walking. Same with turning.
I'm finding it very difficult to play atm and feel like just giving up.
So, i do hope this is fixed REAL SOON
I actually use a 3 X 10 layout by splitting the tray into six 5 button sections, using the bumpers and triggers as "ctrl" and "alt" for their respective sides of the tray, and using the 1,2,3,4 (a,b,x,y) and right stick buttons, i use select as scan, and also a modifier to use carrier commands. start is the same as "f" I use the dpad in combination with the bumpers and triggers for things like redirecting shields, changing power level presets etc.
On ground I have it set up similarly except I only use a 2 line tray and use the bumpers for my jump and run buttons, and the dpad controls aim mode, crouch, switching weapons, and holstering I even have other things like opening certain menus mapped.
It probably why I have such a hard time playing with a keyboard right now as some of the default keyboard commands are no longer there as I've remapped them and the game is expecting input from a controller for them, and no I'm not going to go back to defaults as it took me several hours to program every bind by hand, and my only copy of the bind files on my computer was messed up because I was stupid enough to save them after season 9 began, not realizing the it was changing button names to hex addresses in those files.
I still have partial bind files (luckily I posted a set of pre-carrier command ones in a guide to binding the dual action I wrote back in the archive days) so at least I have a starting point if they do fix things.
I actually use a 3 X 10 layout by splitting the tray into six 5 button sections, using the bumpers and triggers as "ctrl" and "alt" for their respective sides of the tray, and using the 1,2,3,4 (a,b,x,y) and right stick buttons, i use select as scan, and also a modifier to use carrier commands. start is the same as "f" I use the dpad in combination with the bumpers and triggers for things like redirecting shields, changing power level presets etc.
On ground I have it set up similarly except I only use a 2 line tray and use the bumpers for my jump and run buttons, and the dpad controls aim mode, crouch, switching weapons, and holstering I even have other things like opening certain menus mapped.
It probably why I have such a hard time playing with a keyboard right now as some of the default keyboard commands are no longer there as I've remapped them and the game is expecting input from a controller for them, and no I'm not going to go back to defaults as it took me several hours to program every bind by hand, and my only copy of the bind files on my computer was messed up because I was stupid enough to save them after season 9 began, not realizing the it was changing button names to hex addresses in those files.
I still have partial bind files (luckily I posted a set of pre-carrier command ones in a guide to binding the dual action I wrote back in the archive days) so at least I have a starting point if they do fix things.
I always save a copy of my .txr file to another drive. Just in case i ever have to format my pc. That way, i wont be spending hours on my config . Like you, have spent hours to get it the way i like it. The only things i left as defaults, was camera movement as it worked fine on the right stick, and my character movement which was working great on the left stick. I was able to walk. Heck, if i tapped down on the left stick, i was able to run, i had to bind that one myself tho, but while running, if i backed off to equivalent of walking, but still running, it was like i was running in slow motion. People used to stop running past me just to have a look. It was funny. But something happened in one of their patches, i havent been able to do that for nearly a year now It was fun while it lasted tho lol
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I always save a copy of my .txr file to another drive. Just in case i ever have to format my pc. That way, i wont be spending hours on my config . Like you, have spent hours to get it the way i like it. The only things i left as defaults, was camera movement as it worked fine on the right stick, and my character movement which was working great on the left stick. I was able to walk. Heck, if i tapped down on the left stick, i was able to run, i had to bind that one myself tho, but while running, if i backed off to equivalent of walking, but still running, it was like i was running in slow motion. People used to stop running past me just to have a look. It was funny. But something happened in one of their patches, i havent been able to do that for nearly a year now It was fun while it lasted tho lol
yeah I love the control you have over the speed of movement, I also play Champions online, and one of the funner things I do is backflips in slow motion with acrobatics. but yes the sticks give far more control, in fact while trying to play with keyboard in space doing borg red alerts. I realized that when flying up and down that I was missing the fact the left stick centers itself to level when you are no longer pushing it up or down. Something you can't do with the keyboard, which was annoying having to readjust pitch to be on the same level as enemies. but still flying level.
About the sticks, I swapped left/right camera motion to the left stick and strafe on the right stick, as I rarely use it. so I can turn, and move forward and back all with the left stick.
yeah I love the control you have over the speed of movement, I also play Champions online, and one of the funner things I do is backflips in slow motion with acrobatics. but yes the sticks give far more control, in fact while trying to play with keyboard in space doing borg red alerts. I realized that when flying up and down that I was missing the fact the left stick centers itself to level when you are no longer pushing it up or down. Something you can't do with the keyboard, which was annoying having to readjust pitch to be on the same level as enemies. but still flying level.
About the sticks, I swapped left/right camera motion to the left stick and strafe on the right stick, as I rarely use it. so I can turn, and move forward and back all with the left stick.
Well, i'm sure the devs are at the office now, so, HOPEFULLY, fingers crossed, they are working on a fix for it as we write our messages in this thread. Putting up with for the weekend was a nuisance. Putting up with it for a week, i dont think i could do. My patience are wearing thin right now. Just wanna chuck my controller lol
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
First, let me add my voice to those asking please fix the joystick analog mapping to bring it back at least to its state before Season 9, to accommodate all those users with repetitive movement problems using keyboard/mouse controls.
However, I would note that the analog control for joysticks was buggy even before Season 9. In my experience the analog flight stick controls for x and y axis have always been bugged, because changes in direction using analog (especially at full impulse) would cause my ship to hang in space for several seconds. I get smoother movement control by mapping the movement axes to the keyboard (w,s,a,d). Even then I find for piloting an escort I need finer control than what I can get with my stick (I have a hat mapped to w,s,a,d for "trim" control). I made a bug report years ago about the poor analog response for flight sticks, to no avail. Would be nice if they fixed that also someday, but I can live with it if they don't.
What I am missing terribly with the current analog mapping bug is view control. Using a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog flight stick, I can effectively map the analog view control to a hat (I can provide the mapping code to those who are interested). I have a work-around for the present by mapping the hat to mouse view, but that is a poor substitute. I find that the mouse view control is limited in how many times you can rotate the view in any one direction before you must rotate back; it also is a bit of a pain to have to toggle in and out of mouse view to use your mouse when you are flying your ship.
First, let me add my voice to those asking please fix the joystick analog mapping to bring it back at least to its state before Season 9, to accommodate all those users with repetitive movement problems using keyboard/mouse controls.
However, I would note that the analog control for joysticks was buggy even before Season 9. In my experience the analog flight stick controls for x and y axis have always been bugged, because changes in direction using analog (especially at full impulse) would cause my ship to hang in space for several seconds. I get smoother movement control by mapping the movement axes to the keyboard (w,s,a,d). Even then I find for piloting an escort I need finer control than what I can get with my stick (I have a hat mapped to w,s,a,d for "trim" control). I made a bug report years ago about the poor analog response for flight sticks, to no avail. Would be nice if they fixed that also someday, but I can live with it if they don't.
What I am missing terribly with the current analog mapping bug is view control. Using a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog flight stick, I can effectively map the analog view control to a hat (I can provide the mapping code to those who are interested). I have a work-around for the present by mapping the hat to mouse view, but that is a poor substitute. I find that the mouse view control is limited in how many times you can rotate the view in any one direction before you must rotate back; it also is a bit of a pain to have to toggle in and out of mouse view to use your mouse when you are flying your ship.
Had the same problem with the turning being sluggish at first. The key is to increase mouse look speed to around 3.5 or so and fly in Chase mode, turning and camera with the stick are then locked together, nice smooth responsive turns.
IMHO this is taking too long to fix. how hard is it to take the old section of code involving controllers and comparing it to the new code and changing it back?
IMHO this is taking too long to fix. how hard is it to take the old section of code involving controllers and comparing it to the new code and changing it back?
It depends on how they broke it. Best case scenario, it's just some sort of missing flag in the configuration control, and could be easily rectified.
Worst case is that the old input handler was a mass of spaghetti code that has been entirely ripped out and rewritten completely fresh using windows message loop with no DirectInput code at all. Going back to the old code may not be at all feasible and certainly not desirable, but adding DirectInput for joystick support may not be at all trivial.
But remember, it isn't on the official "known issues" list yet, so it's unlikely they are even working on it. Since this was known on tribble, the only way this go through to holodeck was either because no one at cryptic uses a joystick or they knew and didn't care. Neither of those options suggests that there will be a quick fix.
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I am using as mentioned a wired xbox controller running on windows 7
You're one of the lucky ones, x-box controllers still work somewhat, those of us with direct input controllers however are out of luck completely for now. Makes me kind of sad considering there's a time limit on when certain rewards are available for the new featured episode, we may miss out on it because we can't fly our ships, or move around on ground.
No! Really? You dont say. You considered that maybe smirk put "investigating" because the devs are actually investigating? And he was told to notify us they are working on a solution? Which he has stated, they are working on a fix.
You are right on one thing tho, some users do say all kinds of nonsense :P
I cant find any reasonable explanation that will make the devs to have so many troubles fixing this issue lol. They are just lazy. They need to work on the important things first (money) and after that, if they remember this, they will try to fix it. Only if it is not too much trouble. lol. Thats the way cryptic works.
Honestly i will recommend the guys that uses controler / joystick that you should start using keyboard / mouse if you can, cuz i dont even think cryptic will have the guts to fix this. I saw so many bugs with the label "team is investigating" already over the forums and a lot of em were never fixed. Just saying.
You see the default setting for space flight is having the cameras set to "Follow Target" mode which makes the ship movement like any overhead view game, in which wasd movement is somewhat viable.
However, most of us who use a controller/joystick to fly out ships, do so with the camera set to "Chase mode" so it feels like we are actually flying the ship and not moving an object around from above.
None of them know what it's like to use a controller to "fly" the ship.
I personally don't see how players who do use the keyboard can do it on ground or in space the movement just feels "clunky" and not smooth and fluid like it is with a controller and the proper camera settings. I've honestly tried playing with keyboard and mouse these past few days and it just feels unnatural, and actually hurts sometimes when there's a lot of movement involved , like in ground combat. But I blame that on my arthritis.
S9 changed how STO takes input. The issue is was also reported on tribble. If STO's QA had a joystick, they would have noticed it, as players on Tribble did.
The investigation part of this particular problem is easy and obvious. The solution may not be, depending on what exactly they did with the old DirectInput code. Any developer working on that code should have realized the implication, or at least tested whether what they were doing would affect joysticks. This change was sloppy and should have been held back until it was ready. While STO's input handling has been pretty atrocious from the begining and needed serious overhaul, it should not have gone forward in this state. They could have released the content in S9 without the input changes.
Yes, as a "community manager", it's his job to say whatever will mollify the community. Do you really take everything you're told by PR reps at face value? You'll notice he wrote "the team" was investigating. He didn't say which team. You took it to mean the developers. I took it to me the community managers, who are investigating by pointlessly asking for everyone's specific hardware and OS, as if this was a narrow issue with some specific hardware. It's not, and obviously not, and the DirectInput joystick code has remained stable since Windows XP.
He also did NOT say they were working on a solution. That part came out of your imagination. That's what I good PR guy does. He says very little, but gives the impression of much more.
The community managers have most likely taken the info in this thread and filed a report. That's as far as community managers can go. QA clearly doesn't actually have a joystick and will ignore this issue until they manage to aquire one, because they have no other way of reproducing the issue.
Yes, yes, they do.
I dont have a clue what you mean... its not about feelling natural, what the hell, you are playing a game, you are not flying a real starship!!! if you wish to feel "real" , go to the real starship and touch the screen of the consoles
And as you say, if you have problems in your hands , well thats another story (i should start reading from there.. sorry lol).
Maybe it that having the accuracy of the analog stick when turning has spoiled me, both in space and on ground. It's especially apparent on ground where if you walk forward with the keyboard you're locked into a jog and turns with "A" and "D" are basically making a 1/8 turn with each key press. With the controller I can move as fast or slowly forward as I want and turn as fast or as slow as I want all due to the analog control.
I will admit something to those that have tried sticks on ground and found them lacking, I did too originally, until I realized that by default moving the left and right (at least with the dual action), strafes to the left and right and the right stick left/right controls camera rotation. By simply swapping these 2 inputs it improves movement so much.
Well, i saved my controllers, keybinds, profile to .txt file. I found mine, to be the same file as it has been for the last 3 yrs. It hasn't changed. So, i am thinking, it is something else causing the problem. What you found on your side, is just one person. What i have found is just one person. So, to me, it could be anything.But you are making out it is the direct input when you just may well be wrong.
So, unless you are a programmer, you know nothing about coding. I know nothing about coding but i dont make out i do. So, how is what i am saying nonsense? If anything, you are talking nonsense.
No, i do not take everything at face value. But, everytime they have said "investigating", they were investigating and DID fix the problem.
Prime example, " We are "INVESTIGATING", why no one can log in", thats happened many of times and guess what? THEY FIXED IT
Like it's been said the majority of players use keyboard and mouse, I just can't. I find flying a ship in chase mode with the keyboard to be too cumbersome, especially when trying to adjust pitch (up/down) at the same time as turning.
But because of this the devs don't seem to test at anything but default settings. Or like some players the ones that did use sticks to play used outside binding programs that assign key presses to the stick/buttons. I have said before I find these programs both lame and lacking.
They already got all the money I'm ever going to give them, in fact I'm getting $5 worth of zen from them at the beginning of every month. The issue though is I still like(d) to play this game I would spend that 500 zen to buy the occasional key, open up a couple lock boxes, or buy doff slots, etc. Now since I can't control my ship or my ground crew worth a damn with keyboard controls I'm stuck when I log in to just doing a few doff missions.
1) Users report problem to support.
2) Support decides there is something to it, forwards to QA.
3) QA attempts to replicate the issue.
4) If QA replicates the issue, the bug is sent to development.
5) Development fixes bug, pushes to test environment.
6) QA verifies on test environment.
7) Fix is pushed to production system.
If QA can't replicate the issue, it is unlikely to be forwarded to development for a real fix. This is because Developer time is more expensive than QA time, and QA time is more expensive than support.
EDIT - So I have the 'twist' mapped to the A and D keys, this is the way I've been doing it for years. However the game is no longer seeing the x and Y axis...I can't go up and down.
BSG-Benne Gesserit Consortium
Indeed i played only 3 mission from the start of S9, i don't wanna "adapt" again in a new way to play... too much "stress"...
Please, fix that BIG bug as soon as possible....
Well, i didnt know that, IF that is how they work that is.
Either way, i hope its fixed quick.
I agree, I've been trying to play with the keyboard and mouse and it's just not the same as with the controller. Maybe it's because I set up the controller specifically for me using in game binds and settings, to allow me to use all the thing I would want on either ground or in space.
Some have suggested 3rd party binding programs, but problem is they aren't as versatile with 2 button binds as I could get in game and my setup relies on a lot of 2 button binds.
Same here. I use 1 trigger button on my dual action as a " control" key from k/b. Another button as "alt" and another as "tab". Then i have the D pad as my skill trays.
The most annoying things for me, is i have no camera movement or character movement. Everything else is still working. It's just those 2 things. I hate wasd cause its either run or jog and its sudden, like its either on or off, and there is no walking. Same with turning.
I'm finding it very difficult to play atm and feel like just giving up.
So, i do hope this is fixed REAL SOON
I actually use a 3 X 10 layout by splitting the tray into six 5 button sections, using the bumpers and triggers as "ctrl" and "alt" for their respective sides of the tray, and using the 1,2,3,4 (a,b,x,y) and right stick buttons, i use select as scan, and also a modifier to use carrier commands. start is the same as "f" I use the dpad in combination with the bumpers and triggers for things like redirecting shields, changing power level presets etc.
On ground I have it set up similarly except I only use a 2 line tray and use the bumpers for my jump and run buttons, and the dpad controls aim mode, crouch, switching weapons, and holstering I even have other things like opening certain menus mapped.
It probably why I have such a hard time playing with a keyboard right now as some of the default keyboard commands are no longer there as I've remapped them and the game is expecting input from a controller for them, and no I'm not going to go back to defaults as it took me several hours to program every bind by hand, and my only copy of the bind files on my computer was messed up because I was stupid enough to save them after season 9 began, not realizing the it was changing button names to hex addresses in those files.
I still have partial bind files (luckily I posted a set of pre-carrier command ones in a guide to binding the dual action I wrote back in the archive days) so at least I have a starting point if they do fix things.
I always save a copy of my .txr file to another drive. Just in case i ever have to format my pc. That way, i wont be spending hours on my config
yeah I love the control you have over the speed of movement, I also play Champions online, and one of the funner things I do is backflips in slow motion with acrobatics. but yes the sticks give far more control, in fact while trying to play with keyboard in space doing borg red alerts. I realized that when flying up and down that I was missing the fact the left stick centers itself to level when you are no longer pushing it up or down. Something you can't do with the keyboard, which was annoying having to readjust pitch to be on the same level as enemies. but still flying level.
About the sticks, I swapped left/right camera motion to the left stick and strafe on the right stick, as I rarely use it. so I can turn, and move forward and back all with the left stick.
Well, i'm sure the devs are at the office now, so, HOPEFULLY, fingers crossed, they are working on a fix for it as we write our messages in this thread. Putting up with for the weekend was a nuisance. Putting up with it for a week, i dont think i could do. My patience are wearing thin right now. Just wanna chuck my controller lol
However, I would note that the analog control for joysticks was buggy even before Season 9. In my experience the analog flight stick controls for x and y axis have always been bugged, because changes in direction using analog (especially at full impulse) would cause my ship to hang in space for several seconds. I get smoother movement control by mapping the movement axes to the keyboard (w,s,a,d). Even then I find for piloting an escort I need finer control than what I can get with my stick (I have a hat mapped to w,s,a,d for "trim" control). I made a bug report years ago about the poor analog response for flight sticks, to no avail. Would be nice if they fixed that also someday, but I can live with it if they don't.
What I am missing terribly with the current analog mapping bug is view control. Using a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog flight stick, I can effectively map the analog view control to a hat (I can provide the mapping code to those who are interested). I have a work-around for the present by mapping the hat to mouse view, but that is a poor substitute. I find that the mouse view control is limited in how many times you can rotate the view in any one direction before you must rotate back; it also is a bit of a pain to have to toggle in and out of mouse view to use your mouse when you are flying your ship.
12th Fleet
Fleet Executive Officer
Had the same problem with the turning being sluggish at first. The key is to increase mouse look speed to around 3.5 or so and fly in Chase mode, turning and camera with the stick are then locked together, nice smooth responsive turns.
Worst case is that the old input handler was a mass of spaghetti code that has been entirely ripped out and rewritten completely fresh using windows message loop with no DirectInput code at all. Going back to the old code may not be at all feasible and certainly not desirable, but adding DirectInput for joystick support may not be at all trivial.
But remember, it isn't on the official "known issues" list yet, so it's unlikely they are even working on it. Since this was known on tribble, the only way this go through to holodeck was either because no one at cryptic uses a joystick or they knew and didn't care. Neither of those options suggests that there will be a quick fix.