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Why IMO Voyager Sucked . . .
solidshatner
Member Posts: 390 Arc User
I never liked this super clean cut blatant rip-off of BSG. Everyone more or less got along in spite of conflicting ideals that shouldnt have been a good fit and were BARELY explored. Everyone was always well fed and clean with unlimited resources. SOMETIMES it would be mentioned that they were limited but its pretty hard for me to care about replicator rationing when its implied that its play time with Cpt Proton in the holodeck every other night. All of the stories were contrived around plot convenience and inspired about as much emotion as watching an old 80s ep of G.I. Joe. You know, the really really LAME eps where Lady J and Duke were fighting and that lame soap/violin music would play in the background.
Here are some things that really bugged me:
-Borg singing You Are My Sunshine.
-Tuvix
-Warp 10 Lizard Babies
-Chakotays almost racist generic stereo typed heritage
-The NOT Klingons (Kazon)
-The fact that they hired Mrs. Columbo to play Janeway. Most annoying I-used-to-smoke voice EVER!
The list goes on . . .
Anyone want to add to it?
Here are some things that really bugged me:
-Borg singing You Are My Sunshine.
-Tuvix
-Warp 10 Lizard Babies
-Chakotays almost racist generic stereo typed heritage
-The NOT Klingons (Kazon)
-The fact that they hired Mrs. Columbo to play Janeway. Most annoying I-used-to-smoke voice EVER!
The list goes on . . .
Anyone want to add to it?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by solidshatner on
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One small thing thoug: Those of us who don't like Voyager, traditionally call it "Spoonager" since it was modeled after a spoon... At least I'd like it to become a tradition.
The writing for the show was downright embarrassing. There were far too many ridiculous episodes with not-though-out-at-all plotlines like dinosaur people from Earth developing a starfaring civilization that left no fossil/archeological record at all. Aside from Picardo's performance and, for men, 7 of 9's TRIBBLE, there isn't much to redeem the Starfleet ship lost in foreign space with an infinite supply of personnel, torpedoes and shuttlecraft.
And most times, THERE'S NO BATTLE DAMAGE! I mean jesus how much pounding did Voyager take on the way home? How come every episode, she looks like she just came from the builders?
Continuity was terrible. Great idea, poorly done.
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Ironically, I liked SG:U better than the other series...
Why? Simple: The characters had epic flaws in SGU... I mean insanely huge character flaws.
You did not find that in the other series... Sure, O'neill and Sheppard had problems with authority and all that, but nothing that compares to cheating psyco Young.
Like everyone else, the ship seemed to never have one scratch after tons of battles and always seemed to have enough people.
I mean, making a show like the 2004 BSG is hard, idk whether voyager or that came first.
I really think it will be a long time till we see something like BSG again. BSG was very unique and had some of the best writing i have ever seen.
Voyager could have been like BSG if the writing was not so bad and if they did better on the episodes and made it more realistic.
Like make more episodes like year of hell, but not all of them, because I would probably not want a 7 year long year of hell marathon, should of been like BSG where things got real bad at times but got a bit better, but not "great".
The whole janeway thing with "I want to follow starfleet rules still" kinda made me a bit mad. Again, like BSG, i wish they would do more for their survival than what the starfleet rules are. Which they do, but the show does not make it dramatic enough or make you remember anything special about the show. i mean in BSG, Roslin was going to commit genocide on the Cylons, which brought a moral debate which made you think about it.
If Voyager had that, while keeping at least some of the star trek style, the show would have been good, but it was not and we cant change it.
The Doctor taking over 7 of 9's body
Neelix
The Ocampa who lost a lung and was magically fine (and actually able to donate it to a Talaxian) with the help of magical Vidiian technology
Chakotay was an *******
And don't bring up SGU. I tried to watch that show. I really tried. I couldn't take five minutes.
Technology... Not magic...
And you know... less than a decade ago, it seemed inconciveable to make a piece of meat, without growing a cow first.
Several decades ago, people were convinced it was impossible to break the sound-barrier.
Just because you can't imagine the technology, dosen't mean that it can't exist.
I'd say it sucked because of "generally bad writing".
I can give you a list of 6 awful episodes of every single series. Spocks Brain... most of tng season 1... ect ect.
Naming particular episodes that sucked doesn't make the series bad. Unless its the final of a series long plot (see the new-BSG final, that episode in fact did ruin the series).
The problem were long lasting ones.
- no situational awareness
Lost in the Delta quadrant? Live of voyager didn't look any worst then on the Enterprise. The situation didn't feel dire at all at any point.
- the female Captain.
Mulgrew is a good actress. But the writers didn't trust her at all. Not only was she written absolutely inconsistent (which is why people consider her to be crazy) she was treated poorly.
They couldn't have "A captain that happened to be female" Like sisko was "a captain that happened to be black", not that had to be focussed.
She always had to stand higher then her crew to "show" her "authority". Alwqys had to look bigger.
Picard in fact looked smaller then most of his crew, including the women. Still he had more authority in his left small finger then Janeway.
She always had to be right in the end. Even if she murders... she is right. Never question janeway, because someone could thing she's wrong because she is a woman.
- the friendly get-along
Say about Enterprise what you want, but when the went to destroy the Xindi weapon they suddenly had MACOs on board... and there was constant internal struggle between MACOs and Starfleets. Thats how its done right.
Marquis and Starfleet = perfect get along...
Enterprise was flawed but there was effort in it.
Voyager never took risks, they were not creative, they mass produced average stuff because "well, the other 2 trek recent series had 7 seasons, we will too, no matter what happens, so why any effort?"
No, that's Tom Parris. His status as a Starfleet Reject, his promotion, his pointless demotion, and his subsequent re-promotion.
*raises torches and pitchforks*
Voyager predates the BSG remake series by about 10 years, and is more or less the reason it came to be. The story I heard (I think on some of the BSG commentaries, but I can't quite remember) is that Ron D. Moore, who was a writer on TNG, a showrunner on DS9 and has a couple Voyager credits as well, was unhappy with Voyager for exactly the reasons you have here, which is why BSG is a darker and more violent take on the premise.
For my money, Voyager is my least favorite of the series, but still better than 90 percent of the stuff on TV then or now. I don't have any hate for any part of Star Trek.
Pretty much Star Trek in general... :P
And there you go. Still, VOY took it to ridiculous levels.
You mean like the infamous "Voyager Reset Button?" Yeah, it happened in all Trek...but VOY made it obnoxious. I mean, come on -- they reset like 12 shuttles without ever going to a Federation Starbase! LOL
Case in point: First episode she decides to ignore the prime directive to save the Ocampa.
Few episodes later she decides to let an entire race should become extinct because the prime directive says so.
That is hypocrisy of the highest order that should have her thrown in the brig and the show cancelled for being totally stupid.
That said Janeway is also directly responsible for treason and aiding the enemy. The Federation and the Borg are at war so Janeway decides to make an alliance with them.
Oh... but she was trying to stop a greater threat from the Undine.
Except later she hands over the ONLY means of defense against the Undine. So either Janeway helped the Borg commit genocide or Janeway handed the only means of defense to the Undine who commit genocide.
Janeway claims she wanted to get her crew home - So in Endgame she decides to TRIBBLE over the entire universe by using a time machine. If you want to save Voyager then go back to prevent the ship being launched or... go to the Caretaker station to stop it being destroyed.
However, it is fairly obvious Janeway did not go back to save Voyager. She went back to save Seven of Nine which is insanely selfish.
As for the people behind Voyager - Threshold demonstrates just how stupid they were.
We can reach warp 10 - So... you end up being everywhere at once but when they shut it off they are right where they started. That sounds like a massive waste of time.
Oh... but going at Warp 10 causes you to evolve into a lizard. Not only is Voyager using BS science, it is literally butchering REAL science.
The more awesome part of that is the episode demonstrates they have a cure for turning into lizards... so if you have a drive that can take you home and the cure to fix the side effects then nothing prevents Voyager from going home except stupidity.
Maybe the world - both audience and writers - were just not really ready to take the Voyager concept serious.
If it was written and made today, the Year of Hell would probably have lasted an actual season and have no magic reset buttons. (Maybe it would have ended up too dark for a Startrek show then, of course. But I think - in contrast to BSG - one could have put in more uplifting stories in there - yes, life on the VOY would be hard and difficult, but there would be physical and moral victories that would feel all the more satisfying.)
I was a fan of SGU as well. A shame it isn't well-remembered.
Voyager is a mess, and amounts to so much wasted potential...
I can see why people didn't like Stargate Universe that much. Maybe the characters were really a bit too dark, the conflict a bit too strong. I wonder if a "believable" Voyager with real conflicts and problems and a ship getting in worse shape over time wouldn't have had the same impact on the fanbase when Voyager was made. Stargate Universe came after SG1 and Stargate Atlantis, both very light-hearted shows (maybe more than Startrek). The fans were not in the mood for this type of show when they saw "Stargate".
I, however, loved Stargate Universe. In there, contact with alien species really felt mysterious and strange, much more so than in Startrek, for example. And the mystery behind the Destiny mission was great, and I wanted to see that come to fruition (even if it might be disappointing because the writers can never think of something that could satisfy expectations for such a powerful mystery).
I just wish I could believe that one day, I turn on my TV and I get to see the story unfold, the crew coming back from its cry-sleep.
Heck, I might want to start writing fan fiction now.
Today, we must serve the PRime Directive, because that is neccessary for the plot, tomorrow, we don't. Yeah, that was bad.
I don't think cooperating with the Borg was a problem of that magnitude. THere was a clear threat in the form of Species 8472. Something that was capable of beating the Borg up and not caring who else it would take with it? That's a threat that you might work over with the Borg, even if you don't trust hte Borg and will fight them at any other opportunity.
I suppose it suffers a bit from what Startrek often suffered from - all plot points have to be resolved in one episode, or a maximum of two if we have time for a two-parter.
In a better take, one might hav ehad the time to actually start a dialog with Species 8472, and depending on how the writers want to play it, have that come to a success (making no alliance with the Borg necessary), or making it clear that Species 8472 will not stop at the Borg. Then assisting the Borg would be acceptable.
But we had only two episodes, and we needed to introduce a new crew member for the sex appeal. (And as much as I like Jery Ryan and appreciate her beauty, I really dislike the stupid Borg Drone Forced Sexiness look.)
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
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'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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I know...it should really be its own subforum.
In fairness, this thread is about the show, not the character.
/tencharacters
I suppose I can better relate to SG:U than SG1 and SGA in comparison. Being Military working with civilians myself, I know the kind of friction that appears between the two factions.
Add daily life and death struggle into a already tense situation, I don't think the SG:U plot is that unbeliveable.
WTH was that? Who are you talking to? Who is this person who said it's not valid ST canon or that Cryptic shouldn't draw from it?
Funny... I was just thinking the same...