Every ST series has its share of silly episodes, but overall they were mostly good, even Enterprise. Voyager as a whole didn't suck, only a few of those episodes did. What sucks is people that condemn the entire series over a few episodes. :rolleyes:
Every ST series has its share of silly episodes, but overall they were mostly good, even Enterprise. Voyager as a whole didn't suck, only a few of those episodes did. What sucks is people that condemn the entire series over a few episodes. :rolleyes:
No I condemn the series for focusing on 3 character (Janeway, The Doctor and Seven) halfway through the run. And that Janeway was never written as "The Captain" she was always "The Woman Captain" and thats even worse. She should have been Trek's Fem Shep instead we got a Mary Sue with hints of Villiany.
No I condemn the series for focusing on 3 character (Janeway, The Doctor and Seven) halfway through the run. And that Janeway was never written as "The Captain" she was always "The Woman Captain" and thats even worse. She should have been Trek's Fem Shep instead we got a Mary Sue with hints of Villiany.
The second half of the series was great, that's when it got better, especially all the stuff with borg and species 8472. I don't think Star Trek characters in general are very deep, besides a few. I don't mind this at all, I watch it for the science fiction, not for deep characters.
I didn't get very far in mass effect before losing interest though, I think I gave up on that planet where the blue alien lady joins you, and I couldn't escape that planet alive and didn't care enough to progress further to look up cheat codes or a strategy to pass it. I guess both voyager and mass effect aren't for everyone, maybe mutually exclusive.
Every ST series has its share of silly episodes, but overall they were mostly good, even Enterprise. Voyager as a whole didn't suck, only a few of those episodes did. What sucks is people that condemn the entire series over a few episodes. :rolleyes:
I would have been more likely to watch VOY with Sisko and DS9 with Janeway...
And most times, THERE'S NO BATTLE DAMAGE! I mean jesus how much pounding did Voyager take on the way home? How come every episode, she looks like she just came from the builders?
According to some of FX guys, they wanted to do that, but the budget would not allow it because they would have to alter the model every season, which means no stock shots.
Well, I was going to debunk your argument with the fact that they could have switched their biotorps back to standard, but I slowly became more and more unable to after 38 torpedos turned into over 110.
Well, I was going to debunk your argument with the fact that they could have switched their biotorps back to standard, but I slowly became more and more unable to after 38 torpedos turned into over 110.
Honestly the torps aren't that hard to justify if we assume they got the replicators working consistently. They're just guided matter/antimatter missiles. Only tricky part is the antimatter.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I never liked this super clean cut blatant rip-off of BSG.
I leave the rest of your opinion to yourself but i wouldnt go so far as to say voyager is a rip-off of BSG - more like both leaning on the same basis as in the Odyssee by Homer. Just a space version. And its the part about voyager i like the most.
Voyager was the longest running and had high ratings despite being on solely UPN network that reached few people. That's tv rating, not trek nerd opinion ranking. They also had the highest dvd sales. Startrek.com poll showed them to be 2nd most popular trek series. Then the trek nerds made a stink online and declared the poll invalid because ppl who voted aren't all certifiable trek nerds.:rolleyes:
It's only the very few, very hardcore [and very vocal] trek nerds hating Voyager. Lucky, they don't matter. It's fairly popular among other populations, including mainstream scifi fans in general.;)
It wasn't the longest-running.
TNG-178 eps
DS9-176 eps
Voy-172 eps
and, based on the one season that has ratings listed on Wikipedia, it wasn't the highest-rated. You only see the season 4 ratings there, but they're mostly in the 4 to 5 million range, with some dipping into the 3 millions and the premiere drawing 8.8 million. That's lower than any listed rating for TNG. DS9 also outperformed it head-to-head during sweeps periods. Source. Those are actual data, not snide little swipes at people whose opinions you don't care for.
I can't find anything to corroborate your DVD sales assertion, but it might be true. The other bit is one poll that maybe 6000 people voted in 3 years ago, not exactly what I would call a representative sample of Trek fandom or the general populace.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
The exploration of life and religion, new cultures and threats from the far side of the galaxy was trek enough?
The best ongoing storylines in modern tv-sf?
The best villians in Star Trek since the Borg?
The single best hour of television in the 90's with 'In the Pale Moonlight'? <---if you argue this, I will say really mean things about you that will almost violate the posting terms and conditions.
Best ongoing story lines?..... Very debatable.
Best villians in trek since borg?............... More overused then best.
In the pale moonlight. Yeah couldn't stand that mess of an episode, Including the wormhole aliens chosen one whiny Anakin sisko's monologue at the end :P. yep I said it, anyone want to rumble lets go. Anyone even slightly objective can see all that missing with him is for us to find out his uber midichlorian count. after the first few seasons his arc got unbearable. The show turned into the quest of Sisko to become the bajoran savior of all, and finally to become one with the forc.... wormhole aliens. (Who by the way seem a lot like the ori having people worship them. makes me wonder if that where the idea came)
But atleast they wrote in one of the best villains of all time. I mean just look at Janeway!
I kid, I kid. How could I hate another woman so passionate about coffee?
janeway is a villain, one of the biggest in trek history.
i will also be clear, i didnt hate voyager i just didnt like janeway, she was reckless arrogant, cold, a danger to her self, a danger to everything else, she deliberately abandons regulations when its convenient and then has the nerve to tell Ransom (another crook) that she didnt break the prime directive. she has left a trail of destruction from one side of the galaxy to the other and has no intention of cleaning up her own mess. the worst of all is that she is a traitor before i forget :P.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
janeway is a villain, one of the biggest in trek history.
i will also be clear, i didnt hate voyager i just didnt like janeway, she was reckless arrogant, cold, a danger to her self, a danger to everything else, she deliberately abandons regulations when its convenient and then has the nerve to tell Ransom (another crook) that she didnt break the prime directive. she has left a trail of destruction from one side of the galaxy to the other and has no intention of cleaning up her own mess. the worst of all is that she is a traitor before i forget :P.
By that definition all Starfleet captains would be traitors try something that doesn't apply to every single startrek series :rolleyes:
By that definition all Starfleet captains would be traitors try something that doesn't apply to every single startrek series :rolleyes:
nope just janeway, and i know what your implying and such simplification wont work because other trek captains at least have respect for the chain of command and the values of the federation and starfleet. im not gonna sugar coat the issue though, there are one or two instances but nothing on the scale janeway ever accomplished.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
nope just janeway, and i know what your implying and such simplification wont work because other trek captains at least have respect for the chain of command and the values of the federation and starfleet. im not gonna sugar coat the issue though, there are one or two instances but nothing on the scale janeway ever accomplished.
Yep... yep... yep... keep drinking that spiced Raktajino. We'll all be here when the mug is empty.
Best villians in trek since borg?............... More overused then best.
In the pale moonlight. Yeah couldn't stand that mess of an episode, Including the wormhole aliens chosen one whiny Anakin sisko's monologue at the end :P. yep I said it, anyone want to rumble lets go. Anyone even slightly objective can see all that missing with him is for us to find out his uber midichlorian count. after the first few seasons his arc got unbearable. The show turned into the quest of Sisko to become the bajoran savior of all, and finally to become one with the forc.... wormhole aliens. (Who by the way seem a lot like the ori having people worship them. makes me wonder if that where the idea came)
Di... did you really?
Look, I'm not here to defend DS9. If you don't like it, it is your right to do so. I am going to defend some aspects you got wrong of it.
DS9 is not the Quest of Sisko. This is one story arc. You also got the Ferengi, the Klingons, Odo, Kira, Dominion, Cardassian, Nog, Jake and so on. If you don't like one particular arc, that is your right, but the series was far more than one arc.
Prophets the Force? If somebody makes a Force reference, it should be me (check that account name, and if it doesn't say anything, remove the number and google). But aside from that, if you want to see the Force in Star Trek, it is Q. Not the Prophets. All they can is sit in their Celestial Palace, see the timeline since they are not linear. And they can have a fight with Pah-wraiths.
And the reason why I started my post with Di.... was that Ori comment. I remember watching the Ori building their supergate on TV. I must have been like 10, 11 if I guess correctly. By then, even Voyager had finished already, and that series was still running when What You Leave Behind aired. The Ori are developed more recently than the Prophets. If one has been stealing ideas from the other, I doubt that DS9 writers could travel through time to steal ideas from a series that were not even developed yet.
You know, I'm beginning to wonder if you watched DS9 at all. I'm not saying you should like it, but don't say stuff about it that simply is not true. Otherwise I can also say that TNG was soo bad since it was all about a ship doing the exact same thing every day, with a tyrannical bald guy who hates his senior staff and doesnt play games with them, with a boring android development arc that was all that was a part of that series and with obvious Fringe references to the use of a transporter that had a nasty side effect. You see how nothing of what I just said is true?
By that definition all Starfleet captains would be traitors try something that doesn't apply to every single startrek series :rolleyes:
It most certainly does not apply to every single Star Trek series.
Sure, other crews and captains did boneheaded, immoral, or outright illegal stuff on occasion. Some of the highlights:
-- ENT: "Dear Doctor" had Archer and Phlox commit intentional negligent genocide because some future civilization, not even their own, might possibly have a rule against interfering.
-- TNG: "The Child". Deanna gets frakking r@ped and nobody gives a damn.
-- DS9: "For the Uniform". Yes, even a series I will praise to no end for overall consistently good writing, actual character development, and well-plotted story arcs, is not immune. Sisko takes Eddington's betrayal of and insults to the service so personally that he stoops to their level and commits a war crime to force his surrender. And gets away with it because **** things actually making sense, we got to make Les Miz references. :rolleyes:
But all of that pales in comparison to Janeway, who violated the rules and basic common sense on a weekly basis with no repercussions, and none of the others ever went as far, either. My personal favorite? "Scorpion". Based entirely on extremely specious evidence that there was possibly somebody worse (i.e. the word of a space pixie possessing no actual track record for accurate telepathy or precognition), and because one, repeat, one of the Undine attacked an armed away team, she allies with a civilization whose entire raison d'etre is to kill or inflict a fate worse than death on every intelligent creature ever to live. She did not have anywhere near sufficient justification to make this decision and therefore the guilt for every person across the galaxy slain or assimilated by the Borg thereafter rests solely on her shoulders. More specifically:
-- She provides tactical and strategic assistance to a civilization that is in a state of war with the Federation. That's treason.
-- Helping them means they can continue carrying out their raison d'etre. That's accessory to genocide, multiplied by however many species they've taken out since she helped them.
-- Helping them against the Undine specifically means the Undine are in danger of extinction. Should the Borg succeed, that's accessory to genocide against a power that is not at war with the Federation (because, as previously mentioned, the only evidence that the Undine intended to cleanse the galaxy of life is Kes' say-so).
-- The Federation is at war with the Borg and standing orders are to take every reasonable opportunity to damage them. That's willful violation of standing orders, which is almost not worth mentioning after the other two.
-- She failed to attempt diplomatic contact with the Undine before taking hostile actions, a direct violation of yet another Starfleet regulation, Directive 010 (VOY: "In the Flesh").
The entire Voyager command crew can also be charged with criminal negligence for not relieving her of command for even entertaining the possibility of allying with the Borg. Assisting her with this bat**** plan jumps it to accessory.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Look, I'm not here to defend DS9. If you don't like it, it is your right to do so. I am going to defend some aspects you got wrong of it.
DS9 is not the Quest of Sisko. This is one story arc. You also got the Ferengi, the Klingons, Odo, Kira, Dominion, Cardassian, Nog, Jake and so on. If you don't like one particular arc, that is your right, but the series was far more than one arc.
Prophets the Force? If somebody makes a Force reference, it should be me (check that account name, and if it doesn't say anything, remove the number and google). But aside from that, if you want to see the Force in Star Trek, it is Q. Not the Prophets. All they can is sit in their Celestial Palace, see the timeline since they are not linear. And they can have a fight with Pah-wraiths.
And the reason why I started my post with Di.... was that Ori comment. I remember watching the Ori building their supergate on TV. I must have been like 10, 11 if I guess correctly. By then, even Voyager had finished already, and that series was still running when What You Leave Behind aired. The Ori are developed more recently than the Prophets. If one has been stealing ideas from the other, I doubt that DS9 writers could travel through time to steal ideas from a series that were not even developed yet.
You know, I'm beginning to wonder if you watched DS9 at all. I'm not saying you should like it, but don't say stuff about it that simply is not true. Otherwise I can also say that TNG was soo bad since it was all about a ship doing the exact same thing every day, with a tyrannical bald guy who hates his senior staff and doesnt play games with them, with a boring android development arc that was all that was a part of that series and with obvious Fringe references to the use of a transporter that had a nasty side effect. You see how nothing of what I just said is true?
Yeah before you go into the I'm not here to defend said topic but im gonna defend it.
power down the nerd rage of doom phasers, I never attacked it yeah I freely admit that I didn't care for later seasons of ds9 that doesn't mean I hated the show I liked much of the first several seasons. not that I wouldn't be in my rights not to like if I felt that way but I don't.
Yes I know there was more then one arc to the series there were Klingons through the fed/kdf war in the dominion arc and worf too. Yes the ferengi got some airtime, jake sadly became more of a blink and you'll miss him character later on. Nog was personally annoying, more so then Quark imo. Odo was well written, O'Brian and Bashir were well done too . However the whole pah wraith prophet story later in did turn the show a bit more sisko centric then it needed to be.
Yes everyone knows the ori storyline came out long after ds9. I never said the Ds9 writers had used the orb of time to steal ideas from the future :P. I point out yes that the ori and bajoran prophets have some similarities to them. such as encouraging people to worship them as gods. and causing a fanatical devotion to them. as well as manipulating people to do their bidding in spite of danger to them.
Yes I allude to starwars as well. They "the prophets" do far more then sit in a wormhole they possessed sisko's mom and arranged her to meet his dad so he would be born yeah no will of the force there (note. not saying everything is exactly the same but there are similarities) . They could cause people to have visions, much like force visions. They created almost more orbs then there are pokemon Jk that. Got rid of an entire dominion fleet. yeah the prophets and siskos connection to them was a bit far fetched at times.
It makes me wonder if you have prepared the fire everything cue-cards or something no matter what someone says.
Honestly the torps aren't that hard to justify if we assume they got the replicators working consistently.
There wouldn't be an issue at all if they hadn't written, "and no way to replace them after they're gone," into that early episode. It's a symptom of the overall problems with the show - setting up interesting limitations for the future, from which future stories could flow, and then failing to even acknowledge them in subsequent episodes.
I didn't/don't hate Voyager, but a lot about it annoyed me:
The Maquis - they became 'best buds' with the Starfleet crew FAR too easily. There was real potential there, but it was wasted.
Voyager's condition - the ship should have looked more like the Equinox did when they encountered it, or as Voyager itself was in Year of Hell. But no, pristine every time we saw it. In fact, they were so inconsistent with showing damage that in 'Scorpion Pt2', a 8472 beam is cearly seen strking the aft of the ship, just below the shuttlebay. Yet a few scenes later, when they fire the High Yield torpedo from the aft tube... no damage.
Neelix. George Lucas realised that people found Jar Jar Binks annoying and adjusted his subsequent appearances accordingly. Berman ignored the fact that people found Neelix annoying and decided that the answer to this was to give us MORE Neelix.
Seriously - this is a character who's pretence at being good at various things GOT PEOPLE KILLED. There isn't anything remotely likable about that.
Seven of Nine. Yes, okay - pretty good character. But they overplayed her and Voyager became the 'Seven of Nine' show for a time.
And finally - leaving stories unresolved. Nothing more to be said on that one.
All great points, though I do think Neelix was only as annoying as they chose to make him. They had a decent actor, and the character could have worked fine as a civilian "guide" to the Delta Quadrant as originally conceived...but their execution was horrible.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
At the time it Aired there wasnt anything star trekkie on tv to compete with Voyarger..........So in that respect it did well in the absence of nothing competing with it
Endless supplies...........
Endless torpedos........
No ship repairs in relation to the damage taken...........
Everything always clean and tidy........
No crew interaction to speak of...........It should have been a lot more exploring new worlds to gather resources with crew interaction imo
Voyarger should have looked like the submarine in Das Boot with supplies crowding every square inch of the ship after leaving a planet
And when returning to earth instead of being promoted to Admiral.... janeway would have been court martialed and placed in military prison
Or if it had been reality she would have went to her ready room ..had a cup of coffee before starfleet boarded her ship in the last episode
and placed a phaser to her head to avoid that
but still at the time it was the best thing on tv sci fi related and i watched it every week
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
At the time it Aired there wasnt anything star trekkie on tv to compete with Voyarger..........So in that respect it did well in the absence of nothing competing with it
Endless supplies...........
Endless torpedos........
No ship repairs in relation to the damage taken...........
Everything always clean and tidy........
No crew interaction to speak of...........It should have been a lot more exploring new worlds to gather resources with crew interaction imo
Voyarger should have looked like the submarine in Das Boot with supplies crowding every square inch of the ship after leaving a planet
And when returning to earth instead of being promoted to Admiral.... janeway would have been court martialed and placed in military prison
Or if it had been reality she would have went to her ready room ..had a cup of coffee before starfleet boarded her ship in the last episode
and placed a phaser to her head to avoid that
but still at the time it was the best thing on tv sci fi related and i watched it every week
HAHAHA!!! I never really looked at it that way before. Now that you pointed it out - HELL YEAH their should have been a court martial.
My new Fantasy Scene:
"Gee Janeway, I know you wanted to get home - but thanks for bringing a Borg Conduit to Earths' doorstep complete with an invasion force you BARELY were able to handle. Oh, and lets go through the logs to see how you CREATED the situation in the first place in addition to all of your Prime Directive violations accross the quadrant. Like the Borg weren't enough of a problem for us . . . THANKS for bringing us to the attention of ANOTHER race of shape shifters when you could have just sucked it up and let them finish off our greatest threat. But noooooo. Couldnt let that happen. Had to TRIBBLE THEM off too. Lets also talk about giving members of a terroist organization knowledge of the Omega Particle . . . . Oooooo you are soooooooo fired!"
Agree with most posts here. Chakotay's character did indeed come off to me overly focused on his Indian-ness. No real reason either. Unfortunately for him and a bunch of other characters he got side tracked by Seven.
I also hated the Captain Proton madness. Especially when he put that in the Delta Flyer.
"Hi guys, I know we're limited on resources, time, human and material. But Mr.Paris decided it would be a good idea to put in an archaic lever system that you all have to learn if you ever need to fly this thing. Good luck!"
-_-
Fairhaven? Not so bad until they had janeway sculpting her own holographic sex doll. Wtf?
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is Seven's Borg magic. Everything is solved with Borg nanoprobes or algorithms. Not to mention there seem to be no consequences for her character. She don't like Janeway's orders? No prob lock out the bridge with a borg algorithm, take control of the ship, the only price to pay is an angry glare from Janeway after.
Another pt well stated here previously, Janeway went back in time just to save Seven. Really selfish indeed. I recall her saying "our family isn't complete".
Comments
No I condemn the series for focusing on 3 character (Janeway, The Doctor and Seven) halfway through the run. And that Janeway was never written as "The Captain" she was always "The Woman Captain" and thats even worse. She should have been Trek's Fem Shep instead we got a Mary Sue with hints of Villiany.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
The second half of the series was great, that's when it got better, especially all the stuff with borg and species 8472. I don't think Star Trek characters in general are very deep, besides a few. I don't mind this at all, I watch it for the science fiction, not for deep characters.
I didn't get very far in mass effect before losing interest though, I think I gave up on that planet where the blue alien lady joins you, and I couldn't escape that planet alive and didn't care enough to progress further to look up cheat codes or a strategy to pass it. I guess both voyager and mass effect aren't for everyone, maybe mutually exclusive.
I would have been more likely to watch VOY with Sisko and DS9 with Janeway...
According to some of FX guys, they wanted to do that, but the budget would not allow it because they would have to alter the model every season, which means no stock shots.
Sorry, but GLADoS is the best AI ever.
Well, I was going to debunk your argument with the fact that they could have switched their biotorps back to standard, but I slowly became more and more unable to after 38 torpedos turned into over 110.
Honestly the torps aren't that hard to justify if we assume they got the replicators working consistently. They're just guided matter/antimatter missiles. Only tricky part is the antimatter.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"I'm afraid I can't do that."
I leave the rest of your opinion to yourself but i wouldnt go so far as to say voyager is a rip-off of BSG - more like both leaning on the same basis as in the Odyssee by Homer. Just a space version. And its the part about voyager i like the most.
It wasn't the longest-running.
TNG-178 eps
DS9-176 eps
Voy-172 eps
and, based on the one season that has ratings listed on Wikipedia, it wasn't the highest-rated. You only see the season 4 ratings there, but they're mostly in the 4 to 5 million range, with some dipping into the 3 millions and the premiere drawing 8.8 million. That's lower than any listed rating for TNG. DS9 also outperformed it head-to-head during sweeps periods. Source. Those are actual data, not snide little swipes at people whose opinions you don't care for.
I can't find anything to corroborate your DVD sales assertion, but it might be true. The other bit is one poll that maybe 6000 people voted in 3 years ago, not exactly what I would call a representative sample of Trek fandom or the general populace.
Best ongoing story lines?..... Very debatable.
Best villians in trek since borg?............... More overused then best.
In the pale moonlight. Yeah couldn't stand that mess of an episode, Including the wormhole aliens chosen one whiny Anakin sisko's monologue at the end :P. yep I said it, anyone want to rumble lets go. Anyone even slightly objective can see all that missing with him is for us to find out his uber midichlorian count.
[/SIGPIC]
I blame the scriptwriters, not the actors.
janeway is a villain, one of the biggest in trek history.
i will also be clear, i didnt hate voyager i just didnt like janeway, she was reckless arrogant, cold, a danger to her self, a danger to everything else, she deliberately abandons regulations when its convenient and then has the nerve to tell Ransom (another crook) that she didnt break the prime directive. she has left a trail of destruction from one side of the galaxy to the other and has no intention of cleaning up her own mess. the worst of all is that she is a traitor before i forget :P.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
By that definition all Starfleet captains would be traitors try something that doesn't apply to every single startrek series :rolleyes:
[/SIGPIC]
nope just janeway, and i know what your implying and such simplification wont work because other trek captains at least have respect for the chain of command and the values of the federation and starfleet. im not gonna sugar coat the issue though, there are one or two instances but nothing on the scale janeway ever accomplished.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yep... yep... yep... keep drinking that spiced Raktajino. We'll all be here when the mug is empty.
[/SIGPIC]
Di... did you really?
Look, I'm not here to defend DS9. If you don't like it, it is your right to do so. I am going to defend some aspects you got wrong of it.
DS9 is not the Quest of Sisko. This is one story arc. You also got the Ferengi, the Klingons, Odo, Kira, Dominion, Cardassian, Nog, Jake and so on. If you don't like one particular arc, that is your right, but the series was far more than one arc.
Prophets the Force? If somebody makes a Force reference, it should be me (check that account name, and if it doesn't say anything, remove the number and google). But aside from that, if you want to see the Force in Star Trek, it is Q. Not the Prophets. All they can is sit in their Celestial Palace, see the timeline since they are not linear. And they can have a fight with Pah-wraiths.
And the reason why I started my post with Di.... was that Ori comment. I remember watching the Ori building their supergate on TV. I must have been like 10, 11 if I guess correctly. By then, even Voyager had finished already, and that series was still running when What You Leave Behind aired. The Ori are developed more recently than the Prophets. If one has been stealing ideas from the other, I doubt that DS9 writers could travel through time to steal ideas from a series that were not even developed yet.
You know, I'm beginning to wonder if you watched DS9 at all. I'm not saying you should like it, but don't say stuff about it that simply is not true. Otherwise I can also say that TNG was soo bad since it was all about a ship doing the exact same thing every day, with a tyrannical bald guy who hates his senior staff and doesnt play games with them, with a boring android development arc that was all that was a part of that series and with obvious Fringe references to the use of a transporter that had a nasty side effect. You see how nothing of what I just said is true?
Join the Deltas today!
It most certainly does not apply to every single Star Trek series.
Sure, other crews and captains did boneheaded, immoral, or outright illegal stuff on occasion. Some of the highlights:
-- ENT: "Dear Doctor" had Archer and Phlox commit intentional negligent genocide because some future civilization, not even their own, might possibly have a rule against interfering.
-- TNG: "The Child". Deanna gets frakking r@ped and nobody gives a damn.
-- DS9: "For the Uniform". Yes, even a series I will praise to no end for overall consistently good writing, actual character development, and well-plotted story arcs, is not immune. Sisko takes Eddington's betrayal of and insults to the service so personally that he stoops to their level and commits a war crime to force his surrender. And gets away with it because **** things actually making sense, we got to make Les Miz references. :rolleyes:
But all of that pales in comparison to Janeway, who violated the rules and basic common sense on a weekly basis with no repercussions, and none of the others ever went as far, either. My personal favorite? "Scorpion". Based entirely on extremely specious evidence that there was possibly somebody worse (i.e. the word of a space pixie possessing no actual track record for accurate telepathy or precognition), and because one, repeat, one of the Undine attacked an armed away team, she allies with a civilization whose entire raison d'etre is to kill or inflict a fate worse than death on every intelligent creature ever to live. She did not have anywhere near sufficient justification to make this decision and therefore the guilt for every person across the galaxy slain or assimilated by the Borg thereafter rests solely on her shoulders. More specifically:
-- She provides tactical and strategic assistance to a civilization that is in a state of war with the Federation. That's treason.
-- Helping them means they can continue carrying out their raison d'etre. That's accessory to genocide, multiplied by however many species they've taken out since she helped them.
-- Helping them against the Undine specifically means the Undine are in danger of extinction. Should the Borg succeed, that's accessory to genocide against a power that is not at war with the Federation (because, as previously mentioned, the only evidence that the Undine intended to cleanse the galaxy of life is Kes' say-so).
-- The Federation is at war with the Borg and standing orders are to take every reasonable opportunity to damage them. That's willful violation of standing orders, which is almost not worth mentioning after the other two.
-- She failed to attempt diplomatic contact with the Undine before taking hostile actions, a direct violation of yet another Starfleet regulation, Directive 010 (VOY: "In the Flesh").
The entire Voyager command crew can also be charged with criminal negligence for not relieving her of command for even entertaining the possibility of allying with the Borg. Assisting her with this bat**** plan jumps it to accessory.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
if your not gonna contribute, what was the point of that comment?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yeah before you go into the I'm not here to defend said topic but im gonna defend it.
power down the nerd rage of doom phasers, I never attacked it yeah I freely admit that I didn't care for later seasons of ds9 that doesn't mean I hated the show I liked much of the first several seasons. not that I wouldn't be in my rights not to like if I felt that way but I don't.
Yes I know there was more then one arc to the series there were Klingons through the fed/kdf war in the dominion arc and worf too. Yes the ferengi got some airtime, jake sadly became more of a blink and you'll miss him character later on. Nog was personally annoying, more so then Quark imo. Odo was well written, O'Brian and Bashir were well done too . However the whole pah wraith prophet story later in did turn the show a bit more sisko centric then it needed to be.
Yes everyone knows the ori storyline came out long after ds9. I never said the Ds9 writers had used the orb of time to steal ideas from the future :P. I point out yes that the ori and bajoran prophets have some similarities to them. such as encouraging people to worship them as gods. and causing a fanatical devotion to them. as well as manipulating people to do their bidding in spite of danger to them.
Yes I allude to starwars as well. They "the prophets" do far more then sit in a wormhole they possessed sisko's mom and arranged her to meet his dad so he would be born yeah no will of the force there (note. not saying everything is exactly the same but there are similarities) . They could cause people to have visions, much like force visions. They created almost more orbs then there are pokemon Jk that. Got rid of an entire dominion fleet. yeah the prophets and siskos connection to them was a bit far fetched at times.
It makes me wonder if you have prepared the fire everything cue-cards or something no matter what someone says.
[/SIGPIC]
And by the way System Shock 2 is 5 dollars on Steam, if you want it.
There wouldn't be an issue at all if they hadn't written, "and no way to replace them after they're gone," into that early episode. It's a symptom of the overall problems with the show - setting up interesting limitations for the future, from which future stories could flow, and then failing to even acknowledge them in subsequent episodes.
All great points, though I do think Neelix was only as annoying as they chose to make him. They had a decent actor, and the character could have worked fine as a civilian "guide" to the Delta Quadrant as originally conceived...but their execution was horrible.
Endless supplies...........
Endless torpedos........
No ship repairs in relation to the damage taken...........
Everything always clean and tidy........
No crew interaction to speak of...........It should have been a lot more exploring new worlds to gather resources with crew interaction imo
Voyarger should have looked like the submarine in Das Boot with supplies crowding every square inch of the ship after leaving a planet
And when returning to earth instead of being promoted to Admiral.... janeway would have been court martialed and placed in military prison
Or if it had been reality she would have went to her ready room ..had a cup of coffee before starfleet boarded her ship in the last episode
and placed a phaser to her head to avoid that
but still at the time it was the best thing on tv sci fi related and i watched it every week
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
HAHAHA!!! I never really looked at it that way before. Now that you pointed it out - HELL YEAH their should have been a court martial.
My new Fantasy Scene:
"Gee Janeway, I know you wanted to get home - but thanks for bringing a Borg Conduit to Earths' doorstep complete with an invasion force you BARELY were able to handle. Oh, and lets go through the logs to see how you CREATED the situation in the first place in addition to all of your Prime Directive violations accross the quadrant. Like the Borg weren't enough of a problem for us . . . THANKS for bringing us to the attention of ANOTHER race of shape shifters when you could have just sucked it up and let them finish off our greatest threat. But noooooo. Couldnt let that happen. Had to TRIBBLE THEM off too. Lets also talk about giving members of a terroist organization knowledge of the Omega Particle . . . . Oooooo you are soooooooo fired!"
I also hated the Captain Proton madness. Especially when he put that in the Delta Flyer.
"Hi guys, I know we're limited on resources, time, human and material. But Mr.Paris decided it would be a good idea to put in an archaic lever system that you all have to learn if you ever need to fly this thing. Good luck!"
-_-
Fairhaven? Not so bad until they had janeway sculpting her own holographic sex doll. Wtf?
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is Seven's Borg magic. Everything is solved with Borg nanoprobes or algorithms. Not to mention there seem to be no consequences for her character. She don't like Janeway's orders? No prob lock out the bridge with a borg algorithm, take control of the ship, the only price to pay is an angry glare from Janeway after.
Another pt well stated here previously, Janeway went back in time just to save Seven. Really selfish indeed. I recall her saying "our family isn't complete".
I guess **** this guy:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101015235129/memoryalpha/en/images/d/dc/JosephCarey.jpg
and this guy: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101015235129/memoryalpha/en/images/d/dc/JosephCarey.jpg
. . . *ducks for cover, just in case*
But consider it redone with the raw humanity that was originally put into LOST. Could have been epic.