And that, man-friend, is precisely what is being taken away from us! LOL. All those nice 8 passives you thought you had, well, you don't have em any more. At least not concurrently, which is really the only thing that matters: a space ability you allegedly have, but cannot use, is, de facto, no different from a space ability you haven't unlocked yet.
So what? I have 2 characters maxed in all rep, some maxed in the 3 older reps, and others I've been working on.
Unlike some players I don't mind actually using my brain, practicing a lot, and going through a bunch of trial and error to figure out which abilities will work best with the limitations of 4/4/4.
I've spent a great many hours in the last month or so working on my builds for all 11 characters. I've used up my free repsecs on some of them that I got when I bought a lifetime sub, some toons I had to buy respec tokens for from the c-store due to using up what I had. I think I'm happy with my builds now though I might need to tweak them some more.
What's next? You gonna start complaining about not having enough skill points to max out everything in the skill tree and you actually have to spend time figuring out how to distribute your points to work for your playstyle? How about they just max out all reputations for everybody, allow them to take every single reputation power, and give us all a million dollars? Life isn't easy. Deal with it.
This is an improvement from Non-dyson reps. Nerf to Dyson. Overall, better for 4 reps, worse for 1, this is positive.
That's what I've been saying the whole time. Literally dozens of posts pointing out how the rep grind overall got much easier much more casual.
People wanted challange. The undine are here to offer that challange.
I've also been saying that too in other threads where people were complaining about no new content, and how everything is boring. The Undine aren't easy.
but what it does illustrate that over time you lose more and more use of gained powers while under the old system what you earned you got to keep.
That's the intention of the change. So if your feedback is you don't want that to happen, you're pretty much up a creek since that's what they're trying to do ... cap how many powers you have so when they have 10 more reputations you still only have what you can choose under that cap.
So what? I have 2 characters maxed in all rep, some maxed in the 3 older reps, and others I've been working on.
So what? Is there a point to saying that?
Unlike some players I don't mind actually using my brain, practicing a lot, and going through a bunch of trial and error to figure out which abilities will work best with the limitations of 4/4/4.
I love using my brain too... which is why I wisely chose to do the full reps. Or so I thought I did.
What's next? You gonna start complaining about not having enough skill points to max out everything in the skill tree and you actually have to spend time figuring out how to distribute your points to work for your playstyle?
Bad analogy being bad. Our skill points aren't being reduced to 50% overnight...
Or are they? Got news for you, buddy! The CEO has already said he plans to take away the skill tree too, akin to what's currently being done to reps; and then, O joy, you can *buy* that MW3 skill, that you already owned, back from him, for Zen.
I predict you will 'actually have to spend time figuring out' a whole lot in the near future. And possibly a bit more than you bargained for.
Honestly, i have grinded out the rep to t5 on all 4 reps on 15 toons. I didnt have sponsorship on a lot of them so i spent a hell of a lot of hours, EC, and marks doing it. You are not getting more in the long run. I have done the math to prove it, i can see you have not read it because if you did you would not have this stance.
Here is the math again.........
x=number of passives you can select from new rep(s) (beyond the current 4)
y=number of passives available from new rep(s) (beyond the current 4)
Current system (16+x)/(32+y)
4reps (16+0)/(32+0)=0.5
5reps (16+4)/(32+8)=0.5
6reps (16+8)/(32+16)=0.5
New system (2*8)/(32+y)
4reps (2*8)/(32+0)=0.5
5reps (2*8)/(32+8)=0.4
6reps (2*8)/(32+16)=0.333
This does not illustrate stats of the powers but what it does illustrate that over time you lose more and more use of gained powers while under the old system what you earned you got to keep.
If you had 8 nickels before, and now you have 4 dimes, is that a nerf because you have half as many coins?
I'm well aware of the math. I've already said multiple times that the amount of slots are going to be limited.
Let's see.........you're completely ignoring these facts:
*All reputation powers have been improved, some of which have had their affects doubled.
*We will be able to respec our reputation traits any time out of combat completely free of charge. This most likely means you can run like hell in PVP and wait until you're out of combat, then swap your traits around to deal with the type of player(s) you're going up against.
*We will be able to choose from any traits of any tier of any rep. No longer will we be forced to choose only 1 tier 2 omega power, or only 1 tier 4 nukara power. If you want both tier 2 omaga or both tier 4 nukara, you can have it.
Your only gripe is the amount of traits we can take each for space, ground, and activateable powers.
This will never happen. More Reputation Slots could be given out via a game mechanic at some point, so I guess you could argue there could be a time cost or an effort cost to get another slot. But we are not charging people for Reputation Trait slots - please don't propagate fearmongering nonsense.
As you can see, it's already been hinted at that there is a possibility they will allow us to obtain more reputation trait slots in the future in game somehow. You are operating on the assumption that they will never give us more slots. And that is what you truly are ******** about.
I think they will eventually give us more slots, especially when we end up with more reputations added down the road. I'm guessing they will make it like the active duty officer slots. At your fleet spire store, after it's unlocked, you can purchase 1 space and 1 ground active doff slot allowing you to have a total of 6 doffs on active space duty and 6 doffs on active ground duty. It's possible they may do this for reputation trait slots for a new fleet holding later.
But you guys need to stop focusing on 1 single aspect of the situation and look at it as a whole. Personally I find more benefit to the new system than the old system. Example: My tactical characters won't need to take either tier 4 nukara powers since they don't run high auxiliary and that makes those powers not as effective as they could be. I'll be able to chose something else that works better for my builds.
That's the intention of the change. So if your feedback is you don't want that to happen, you're pretty much up a creek since that's what they're trying to do ... cap how many powers you have so when they have 10 more reputations you still only have what you can choose under that cap.
That is change??? Change is to lose things over time what you have acquired? That is your definition of change. No, that is what happens when you get old. You must be saying in code that STO is getting old and developing Alzheimers Disease and is starting to lose and forget the things it has acquired over time.
P.S. Do not troll. Re-read the thread, understand it, and say something constructive or just don't bother.
This will never happen. More Reputation Slots could be given out via a game mechanic at some point, so I guess you could argue there could be a time cost or an effort cost to get another slot. But we are not charging people for Reputation Trait slots - please don't propagate fearmongering nonsense.
Methinks the dev protests too much.
Please, define 'Not charging.' Cuz if it boils down to 'Oh, we just meant 'no Zen!', then I'm going to be very disappointed.
'Not charging,' to me, also includes 'No 150k Fleet Credits + 28k Dilithium' projects, either.
Also, the very notion of being graciously allowed to buy something back you already had, kinda shady.
Please, define 'Not charging.' Cuz if it boils down to 'Oh, we just meant 'no Zen!', then I'm going to be very disappointed.
'Not charging,' to me, also includes 'No 150k Fleet Credits + 28k Dilithium' projects, either.
Also, the very notion of being graciously allowed to buy something back you already had, kinda shady.
I totally agree with this. To have to "earn" back anything that we have already earned to begin with is shady in itself. Like you say "not charging" should literally mean FREE as in ZERO COST.
like i said, what they're doing fits the definition of fraud, especially if they add additional slots behind a paywall in the future.
Go read the Terms of Service. Like every online game ever created. You do not own anything you have in game. Its why you can't resell your stuffs or your account... you DO NOT own it. Which includes things you have given them actual money for. You don't own any of it. They can change anything they like any time they want... you agreed to that when you installed the game. So if you really didn't agree to what that document said you really should not have started playing. If you are going to throw out wolds like fraud you might want to have something on your side. Its a pretty strong word to throw an a company.
i didnt say they couldnt do it, im saying it fits the definition.
It doesn't come even close to fitting the definition of fraud. You have a legal signed document with them (you signed it by downloading installing and creating an acount you where given the document to click accept on more then one time) that document clearly defines yours and there rights. Section 23.1 go read it... it is very clear that they have the right to do what ever they want to there software... and you have agreed to it. You have a greed they can take it all away from you if you treat it like you own it, as in you can't sell your account ect. You have NO right to demand anything... They could take every weapon on your ship and only your ship and set the stats to Zero... and it still would not be fraud. They told you up front you own nothing and we will do as we wish with anything you Purchase from us. Fraud is a strong legal word... and it does not in anyway apply here.
Um, no. If they are allowed to do it, then, per definition, it doesn't fit the definition of fraud.
Anyway, let us not get distracted by legalese: this is simply a matter of not TRIBBLE over your customers, allowed or no.
No doubt... this isn't a legal issue. Its a game developer, developing there game which is good. You can disagree as a customer and for sure you guys should say so if your upset by it.
End of the day though they see value in making these changes and are making them for what they see as a better future experience for there customers.
So I guess we'll see if you really feel 3 months down the line that you have been shafted and Cryptic is the wrong... by all means vote with your wallets and leave.
I honestly doubt any of you will... as I see this change in conjunction with some others landing the game in a place almost (can't please everyone all the time) everyone will be very happy with.
So I guess we'll see if you really feel 3 months down the line that you have been shafted and Cryptic is the wrong... by all means vote with your wallets and leave.
I honestly doubt any of you will... as I see this change in conjunction with some others landing the game in a place almost (can't please everyone all the time) everyone will be very happy with.
This is rarely a one-event thing. Frustrations and disappointments do accrue, though; until, one day, that proverbial straw will break the camel's back.
This is rarely a one-event thing. Frustrations and disappointments do accrue, though; until, one day, that proverbial straw will break the camel's back.
I don't disagree and I hope they ware watching... I think I am hearing from plenty of people that IF Cryptic treats this like a real issue and pulls of so many of the games band aids and fixes things in short order they might come around. Status que for them your right historicly has been to fix little things and then stop. I can only think of one time and it was 3.5 years ago back season 1.2 where they really did look at the entire picture and fix things.
So yes I am hoping a little... I am going on changes they are making to a bunch of stuff so far... and I am honestly hoping there not done.
Hey I'm honestly right with many people... if cryptic doesn't start changing things soon I am not going to bother anymore. This is one change I wanted though so yes I see it as a good thing if they keep going.
I know, by the lack of reading of anyone's posts and just spouting the same points that have been disproved over and over again, you are trolling.
I totally agree with this. To have to "earn" back anything that we have already earned to begin with is shady in itself. Like you say "not charging" should literally mean FREE as in ZERO COST.
You are taking what snoggymack said way out of context, since he didn't say he was trolling, and you know it.. you basically omitted a very important part of the post, and this is the very important post, I wouldn't want there to be any misinformatiion:
I haven't trolled anything in this thread. Trolling would be mentioning alzheimer's or something inane like that.
Trying to put words into people's mouths will only make you look like you're trying to make it seem that the posters aren't really saying what they're truly saying...and that is not a good thing...
After talking to a fleet mate, about this new reputation system. I just want to say TRIBBLE you, Cryptic. I busted my behind to get to tier 5 and now you are telling me I can't use my two tier 5 abilities. Just because it's some power creep that I spent hours to earn. No. It's not a power creep. It's a ability I earned after x numbers of hours. Now I will limited to 4 active abilities. I really wish some of the player base leaves and Cryptic rot.
After talking to a fleet mate, about this new reputation system. I just want to say TRIBBLE you, Cryptic. I busted my behind to get to tier 5 and now you are telling me I can't use my two tier 5 abilities. Just because it's some power creep that I spent hours to earn. No. It's not a power creep. It's a ability I earned after x numbers of hours. Now I will limited to 4 active abilities. I really wish some of the player base leaves and Cryptic rot.
Wrong. You can... Have you tried the Revamp on Tribble at all? If you haven't, then do it. You will see that you can change the passives at any time while out of combat.
Cryptic did not say that you'll be permanently unable to use your abilities at all... this is the thing that AdjudicatorHawk wanted to avoid: some people fearmongering... this is exactly that, and you know it.
Now that you bring it up, we get 4 passive space slots, plus 4 active ones. Doesn't that seem a mite lob-sided? Passive abilities generally outnumber Active abilities (or 'Activatable' ones, as I saw a dev once call them) 2:1. Something like 6 passives + 2 actives seems far more reasonable. Or 5:3 even.
Comments
So what? I have 2 characters maxed in all rep, some maxed in the 3 older reps, and others I've been working on.
Unlike some players I don't mind actually using my brain, practicing a lot, and going through a bunch of trial and error to figure out which abilities will work best with the limitations of 4/4/4.
I've spent a great many hours in the last month or so working on my builds for all 11 characters. I've used up my free repsecs on some of them that I got when I bought a lifetime sub, some toons I had to buy respec tokens for from the c-store due to using up what I had. I think I'm happy with my builds now though I might need to tweak them some more.
What's next? You gonna start complaining about not having enough skill points to max out everything in the skill tree and you actually have to spend time figuring out how to distribute your points to work for your playstyle? How about they just max out all reputations for everybody, allow them to take every single reputation power, and give us all a million dollars? Life isn't easy. Deal with it.
That becomes 20% critD in space and ground.
And so on and so forth.
You mean Ajudicatorhawk.
That's what I've been saying the whole time. Literally dozens of posts pointing out how the rep grind overall got much easier much more casual.
I've also been saying that too in other threads where people were complaining about no new content, and how everything is boring. The Undine aren't easy.
That's the intention of the change. So if your feedback is you don't want that to happen, you're pretty much up a creek since that's what they're trying to do ... cap how many powers you have so when they have 10 more reputations you still only have what you can choose under that cap.
So what? Is there a point to saying that?
I love using my brain too... which is why I wisely chose to do the full reps. Or so I thought I did.
Bad analogy being bad. Our skill points aren't being reduced to 50% overnight...
Or are they? Got news for you, buddy! The CEO has already said he plans to take away the skill tree too, akin to what's currently being done to reps; and then, O joy, you can *buy* that MW3 skill, that you already owned, back from him, for Zen.
I predict you will 'actually have to spend time figuring out' a whole lot in the near future. And possibly a bit more than you bargained for.
Here's some math for you; post #32 in this thread
I'm well aware of the math. I've already said multiple times that the amount of slots are going to be limited.
Let's see.........you're completely ignoring these facts:
*All reputation powers have been improved, some of which have had their affects doubled.
*We will be able to respec our reputation traits any time out of combat completely free of charge. This most likely means you can run like hell in PVP and wait until you're out of combat, then swap your traits around to deal with the type of player(s) you're going up against.
*We will be able to choose from any traits of any tier of any rep. No longer will we be forced to choose only 1 tier 2 omega power, or only 1 tier 4 nukara power. If you want both tier 2 omaga or both tier 4 nukara, you can have it.
Your only gripe is the amount of traits we can take each for space, ground, and activateable powers.
Did this thought ever come across your small mind? http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15927481&postcount=307
As you can see, it's already been hinted at that there is a possibility they will allow us to obtain more reputation trait slots in the future in game somehow. You are operating on the assumption that they will never give us more slots. And that is what you truly are ******** about.
I think they will eventually give us more slots, especially when we end up with more reputations added down the road. I'm guessing they will make it like the active duty officer slots. At your fleet spire store, after it's unlocked, you can purchase 1 space and 1 ground active doff slot allowing you to have a total of 6 doffs on active space duty and 6 doffs on active ground duty. It's possible they may do this for reputation trait slots for a new fleet holding later.
But you guys need to stop focusing on 1 single aspect of the situation and look at it as a whole. Personally I find more benefit to the new system than the old system. Example: My tactical characters won't need to take either tier 4 nukara powers since they don't run high auxiliary and that makes those powers not as effective as they could be. I'll be able to chose something else that works better for my builds.
That is change??? Change is to lose things over time what you have acquired? That is your definition of change. No, that is what happens when you get old. You must be saying in code that STO is getting old and developing Alzheimers Disease and is starting to lose and forget the things it has acquired over time.
P.S. Do not troll. Re-read the thread, understand it, and say something constructive or just don't bother.
Yup, that's what they're doing with these changes. They're curbing future issues so that the trait system doesn't balloon out of their control.
I haven't trolled anything in this thread. Trolling would be mentioning alzheimer's or something inane like that.
Methinks the dev protests too much.
Please, define 'Not charging.' Cuz if it boils down to 'Oh, we just meant 'no Zen!', then I'm going to be very disappointed.
'Not charging,' to me, also includes 'No 150k Fleet Credits + 28k Dilithium' projects, either.
Also, the very notion of being graciously allowed to buy something back you already had, kinda shady.
like i said, what they're doing fits the definition of fraud, especially if they add additional slots behind a paywall in the future.
i know rite them darn noobls dons even know how to punctuate
Terms of Service Agreement. The game is subject to change, like all other MMOs out there. Not fraud at all.
I know, by the lack of reading of anyone's posts and just spouting the same points that have been disproved over and over again, you are trolling.
I totally agree with this. To have to "earn" back anything that we have already earned to begin with is shady in itself. Like you say "not charging" should literally mean FREE as in ZERO COST.
sry i cant hear u over all my pvp matches im winning
i didnt say they couldnt do it, im saying it fits the definition.
Go read the Terms of Service. Like every online game ever created. You do not own anything you have in game. Its why you can't resell your stuffs or your account... you DO NOT own it. Which includes things you have given them actual money for. You don't own any of it. They can change anything they like any time they want... you agreed to that when you installed the game. So if you really didn't agree to what that document said you really should not have started playing. If you are going to throw out wolds like fraud you might want to have something on your side. Its a pretty strong word to throw an a company.
Um, no.
Anyway, let us not get distracted by legalese: this is simply a matter of not TRIBBLE over your customers, allowed or no.
It doesn't come even close to fitting the definition of fraud. You have a legal signed document with them (you signed it by downloading installing and creating an acount you where given the document to click accept on more then one time) that document clearly defines yours and there rights. Section 23.1 go read it... it is very clear that they have the right to do what ever they want to there software... and you have agreed to it. You have a greed they can take it all away from you if you treat it like you own it, as in you can't sell your account ect. You have NO right to demand anything... They could take every weapon on your ship and only your ship and set the stats to Zero... and it still would not be fraud. They told you up front you own nothing and we will do as we wish with anything you Purchase from us. Fraud is a strong legal word... and it does not in anyway apply here.
No doubt... this isn't a legal issue. Its a game developer, developing there game which is good. You can disagree as a customer and for sure you guys should say so if your upset by it.
End of the day though they see value in making these changes and are making them for what they see as a better future experience for there customers.
So I guess we'll see if you really feel 3 months down the line that you have been shafted and Cryptic is the wrong... by all means vote with your wallets and leave.
I honestly doubt any of you will... as I see this change in conjunction with some others landing the game in a place almost (can't please everyone all the time) everyone will be very happy with.
Small correction: we have agreed, and Cryptic is the one with 'a greed.'
Sorry, couldn't resist. :P
OK that is pretty darn funny. lol
This is rarely a one-event thing. Frustrations and disappointments do accrue, though; until, one day, that proverbial straw will break the camel's back.
I don't disagree and I hope they ware watching... I think I am hearing from plenty of people that IF Cryptic treats this like a real issue and pulls of so many of the games band aids and fixes things in short order they might come around. Status que for them your right historicly has been to fix little things and then stop. I can only think of one time and it was 3.5 years ago back season 1.2 where they really did look at the entire picture and fix things.
So yes I am hoping a little... I am going on changes they are making to a bunch of stuff so far... and I am honestly hoping there not done.
Hey I'm honestly right with many people... if cryptic doesn't start changing things soon I am not going to bother anymore. This is one change I wanted though so yes I see it as a good thing if they keep going.
Trying to put words into people's mouths will only make you look like you're trying to make it seem that the posters aren't really saying what they're truly saying...and that is not a good thing...
Cryptic did not say that you'll be permanently unable to use your abilities at all... this is the thing that AdjudicatorHawk wanted to avoid: some people fearmongering... this is exactly that, and you know it.
Now that you bring it up, we get 4 passive space slots, plus 4 active ones. Doesn't that seem a mite lob-sided? Passive abilities generally outnumber Active abilities (or 'Activatable' ones, as I saw a dev once call them) 2:1. Something like 6 passives + 2 actives seems far more reasonable. Or 5:3 even.