This is just sad. I feel like its a slap in the face. And the devs are lurking on the boards laughing at us. They must be too. The blog says it will be in line with other dreads. How is this in line with the other ships. What a joke. Do they even know what the stats are on those other ships. This update is not even worth pulling out my Galaxy X for.
I don't think the devs are as cruel as all that, I think they want to make us happy, they want to reboot the galaxy line to end the protest rallies and end the beef thread, but I think that they didn't do enough/maybe really couldn't do enough... though I can't imagine CBS told cryptic that the galaxy MUST NOT HAVE A UNI ENSIGN. Some how I doubt the people at CBS know enough about the game to know the implications of that.
I think most people who have issues with the galaxy would be quite happy with the little tweak of giving it a uni ensign, and I think that most people who have issues with the gal-x would be reasonably happy with a simple buff to turn speed and a cool down reduction and accuracy buff on the lance.
The devs probably also don't think turn speed increase is needed now that the ship can separate, so that's probably one of the reasons that's not happening... I don't disagree that it seems like this was executed without really listening to what people want from the ships (at least those with reasonable requests) but... I really don't think the devs have the malice for the players that we some times feel, and it's not helpful to accuse them of such things.
Something interesting HAS happened now, though. While the Galaxy itself has not really changed, they've uncoupled the Team cooldowns, so having 3 Engi Ensigns no longer mires you in incurable Cooldown Hell.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
I am considering the long-term here and emphasizing that "Fleet" is where a lot of emphasis is clearly being placed instead of significant, quality content. How far does Cryptic plan on having "FLEET IZ SEW GUD" carry this game?
Nah, that's not really how they treat it. They just used it in this particular example because the ships that everyone was on about were already in the game. So the fleet module allows them to make a tweak but still make it part of something people have to buy.
The Dyson stuff was different.
Their avenues for profit remain the same. They make new ships for people to buy. They really don't go back and tweak up ships people already bought. Well major changes anyways.
Sounds like somebody needs to read the patch notes.
I hadn't seen them yet. Have now.
This is great news for me. Frees up two of my builds in a positive way. And makes Science Team a much more valuable slot for me. Which I used to try a lot to fit in anyways because of Sub Nuc.
The Retro Galaxy got a sneaky boost in its playability. By unlocking team powers, Engineering Team gets more usable in the Galaxy's very very heavy lineup of Engineering Ensign slots.
This is great news for me. Frees up two of my builds in a positive way. And makes Science Team a much more valuable slot for me. Which I used to try a lot to fit in anyways because of Sub Nuc.
I am both potentially thrilled and wary of this change... would I love for subnuke not to be the uber overwhelming kick to the nethers it is now because of this change? Yes. Is it right for science to be taking a hit like that?.... well tac's fire on my mark and most debuffs have been useless in pvp for forever now, so I suppose on one hand it levels that out, but I don't think sci's other powers remotely match attack pattern alpha. That and it kinda seems like mostly a buff to escorts and tactical as an escort can most easily slot all three level one team powers and have plenty of heal and tank plus all their uber damage while so much sci and eng cc/debuffs will be shrugged right off.
I guess we'll have to see what it's like for realzies if it makes it to holo, I am having too much difficulty settling on a verdict just imagining what it might do. And since I think this is a a dev response to tac team op-ness and them wanting to expend as little time/effort as possible on other solutions, it is unlikely they will soften the cleanses of these abilities so that they aren't hard counters anymore. By which I mean, instead of it knocking things off entirely, it just shortens the duration of the effect or makes the effect less pronounced, like instead of -40 resistance from a debuff, it might make it -20. But again, this would be coding work that I think they're trying to avoid.
hmm now that we can use eng team in one of the lower slots no longer hurts as much. as it will not trip over TT to ST
still would of liked it to be a uni or at least a science ensign but this can at least make it workable now. still not a great solution but at least workable
I am both potentially thrilled and wary of this change... would I love for subnuke not to be the uber overwhelming kick to the nethers it is now because of this change? Yes. Is it right for science to be taking a hit like that?.... well tac's fire on my mark and most debuffs have been useless in pvp for forever now, so I suppose on one hand it levels that out, but I don't think sci's other powers remotely match attack pattern alpha. That and it kinda seems like mostly a buff to escorts and tactical as an escort can most easily slot all three level one team powers and have plenty of heal and tank plus all their uber damage while so much sci and eng cc/debuffs will be shrugged right off.
I guess we'll have to see what it's like for realzies if it makes it to holo, I am having too much difficulty settling on a verdict just imagining what it might do. And since I think this is a a dev response to tac team op-ness and them wanting to expend as little time/effort as possible on other solutions, it is unlikely they will soften the cleanses of these abilities so that they aren't hard counters anymore. By which I mean, instead of it knocking things off entirely, it just shortens the duration of the effect or makes the effect less pronounced, like instead of -40 resistance from a debuff, it might make it -20. But again, this would be coding work that I think they're trying to avoid.
I think it's really designed to help out the Galaxy R more than anything due to it freeing up E-Team usage with all of those Ensign Engi slots.
The team powers change is what seems really strange to me. It goes against one of the more fundamental mechanics, and just seems less fun and interesting. Not to mention being a pretty big chunk o' power creep.
The team powers change is what seems really strange to me. It goes against one of the more fundamental mechanics, and just seems less fun and interesting. Not to mention being a pretty big chunk o' power creep.
I think it was done because usually TT is simply superior to any other team. Even at ensign level. I think it was overused, while the other team were not used by a lot of people, except newcomers that don't know how much TT is powerful (and why).
Now, we can use the others team, and still use TT. Which mean, we'll see more sci/eng team, and probably less TSS and the like.
I think it was done because usually TT is simply superior to any other team. Even at ensign level. I think it was overused, while the other team were not used by a lot of people, except newcomers that don't know how much TT is powerful (and why).
Now, we can use the others team, and still use TT. Which mean, we'll see more sci/eng team, and probably less TSS and the like.
I haven't really used Science Team in a long time...would it really be better than the regen and damage reduction of TSS?
The Retro Galaxy got a sneaky boost in its playability. By unlocking team powers, Engineering Team gets more usable in the Galaxy's very very heavy lineup of Engineering Ensign slots.
Good move, imo.
The GalX gets a boost as well, since it can now cycle Tac and Eng teams as well as get a defense bonus because it can now turn well enough to keep its speed up. It was tough before, now it's going to be a beast to take down.
u clearly did not fly any of the really good cruisers or even a scimitar, right?
the gal x looks like a warship but it doesnt pack a punch, its just there, nibbling away at enemys where other dreads (the scim) just destroys everything in its path. a lot of ppl were hoping for something in between those two but now (as before the so called revamp) the fed dread is their weakest cruiser type ship
The Retro Galaxy got a sneaky boost in its playability. By unlocking team powers, Engineering Team gets more usable in the Galaxy's very very heavy lineup of Engineering Ensign slots.
Good move, imo.
Yes, that was unexpected.
Not sure if removing the shared cooldown on the various teams is a bad idea or a good one, tbh.
On the one hand, it could be construed as power creep.
But, on the other hand is does mean we need to take a new look at the utility of ensign slots.
I think it's really designed to help out the Galaxy R more than anything due to it freeing up E-Team usage with all of those Ensign Engi slots.
So I'm trying not to overthink it.
Over thinking things is my specialty. :P
I suppose the devs are thinking that the number of boff powers/doffs that would need to be devoted to have the full eng/sci/tac team trifecta going constently requires a reasonable sacrifice of offensive/doff capability to be balanced... it may well be, we'll have to see. I can see that in some ways it alleviates the woes of the three eng ensigns, but it doesn't eliminate tac team's absolute necessity for me to be able to free up a that ensign tac power for an offensive skill... though I could be wrong, the combination of using eng team and sci team in tandem may be enough to match a tac team so that I could do that... though it speaks volumes to tac team's op-ness if it takes the other two teams combined just to try to match it. >>
Plus I'm imagining ody's and recluse healers with the ability to throw eng team and sci team three at the same time onto a heal target, plus a tac team if absolutely necessary... and trying to kill those zombies is going to be incredibly difficult when they turn their heals to themselves... they were hard enough to kill when they had to choose a tac team over a sci team to survive so that you might be able to nuke them, but now... lol.
The team powers change is what seems really strange to me. It goes against one of the more fundamental mechanics, and just seems less fun and interesting. Not to mention being a pretty big chunk o' power creep.
No, actually I think it makes great sense. All these Team abilities had in common, really, was they all had 'Team' in their name. But, logically, there was no reason for Engineering Team to be affected by, say, Tactical Team; especially since the latter is running continuously, for many peeps.
The "Reboot-Bundle" is on Tribble now. It matches the announcement precisely. Also, the FLEET dreadnought is posted - it is identical save for the +0.1 shield modifier, +4000 hull, and the addition of a tactical console PLUS the change of one science console to tactical.
Also, Tactical, Engineering, and Science teams are not starting a cooldown when used. This may or may not be a bug.
The "Dreadnought" is 2500 zen (no modules).
The "Fleet Dreadnought" is 2500 zen (5 modules).
Both have the phaser lance and the latter has superior stats. Given the costs of the bundle, the fact that you do not need it to get saucer separation or a cloak, and the aforementioned superiority of the "fleet" version (which many arbitrary proponents of "Fleet" ships have pointed out can be obtained for EC) - how is the "Dreadnought-reboot" being obsolete and superfluous before it is even deployed demonstrative of a sound-business decision?
I am considering the long-term here and emphasizing that "Fleet" is where a lot of emphasis is clearly being placed instead of significant, quality content. How far does Cryptic plan on having "FLEET IZ SEW GUD" carry this game?
I find this odd as they had a prime opportunity to show off what they have been implementing and they face-rolled it a bit.
Thank you for taking the time to test, and report your findings back.
I haven't really used Science Team in a long time...would it really be better than the regen and damage reduction of TSS?
While the loss of the damage reduction is bad, the instant regen might be more interesting to protect your ship from an incoming borg torp. The STF mobs tend to use spike damage over DPS.
I honestly don't know which one is more powerful, haven't played sci team for a long time. And I think that's the idea, we are now considering using it, while most players used TT and didn't even bother checking sci/engi team.
Also, and I'm not really sure at all, so don't quote me on that, but don't ST remove the tractor beam debuff/borg shield neutralization ? Because that would be really interesting for that.
Finally, isn't there a DOFF adding a shield resistance to ST ?
While the loss of the damage reduction is bad, the instant regen might be more interesting to protect your ship from an incoming borg torp. The STF mobs tend to use spike damage over DPS.
I honestly don't know which one is more powerful, haven't played sci team for a long time. And I think that's the idea, we are now considering using it, while most players used TT and didn't even bother checking sci/engi team.
Also, and I'm not really sure at all, so don't quote me on that, but don't ST remove the tractor beam debuff/borg shield neutralization ? Because that would be really interesting for that.
Finally, isn't there a DOFF adding a shield resistance to ST ?
Science Team is really only good for one thing: removing subnuc. Against Voth, this can be very useful. Heretofore I never slotted it, as it messed with my TT cycling, but now? Hmmm...
I do not understand why they insist on Gal X to have lt tac + ens uni layout.
All the cruisers in game(at least the ones I had contact with) that are capable of slotting dual cannons, have either lt com tac or lt com universal.
Why not follow that?
It seems that most ships with cannons have the ability to slot skills that influence the cannons and allow them to slot them twice for almost constant use. Gal X is crippled in that respect.
What gal x needs is lt com uni, ens uni, lt tac made lt eng. Otherwise its another illogical move in a series of poor decisions.
(I was so much hoping the Avenger would be the Dred update )
Not poor for a "CRUISER" ... Why is it that every time a new ship is released (or in this case updated) that it's GOT TO BE MOAR TACZ 'N' DPS'Z ... And every ship in STO has to be an Escort or a Scimi?
I saw almost the same arguments (read: whines) about the Dyson Science Destroyer ... That is a SCIENCE ship, that had some extra options to allow it to 'bite' harder ... Yet people were ******** because it wasn't a beat all Escort! ... I 'm reading the same things here ...
The upgrades have given this CRUISER a bit more of an edge, given it a few 'teeth' if you will, but it's till a CRUISER, and not an Escort or Battleship!!!
I don't think I'll be buying because I already have a Tac Oddy, but I can see what the appeal is ... Maybe not too much for existing Gal-X owners, but certainly for a player who is looking to get into a CRUISER, but still wants to do some damage.
Not poor for a "CRUISER" ... Why is it that every time a new ship is released (or in this case updated) that it's GOT TO BE MOAR TACZ 'N' DPS'Z ... And every ship in STO has to be an Escort or a Scimi?
I think you're missing the point: Why give the Fleet Galaxy a 4th Tact console, when it only has a single Lt. Tact station? That makes no real sense. That's like Cryptic saying: "Coolbeans! We're going Tact with it... but not really."
Comments
I don't think the devs are as cruel as all that, I think they want to make us happy, they want to reboot the galaxy line to end the protest rallies and end the beef thread, but I think that they didn't do enough/maybe really couldn't do enough... though I can't imagine CBS told cryptic that the galaxy MUST NOT HAVE A UNI ENSIGN. Some how I doubt the people at CBS know enough about the game to know the implications of that.
I think most people who have issues with the galaxy would be quite happy with the little tweak of giving it a uni ensign, and I think that most people who have issues with the gal-x would be reasonably happy with a simple buff to turn speed and a cool down reduction and accuracy buff on the lance.
The devs probably also don't think turn speed increase is needed now that the ship can separate, so that's probably one of the reasons that's not happening... I don't disagree that it seems like this was executed without really listening to what people want from the ships (at least those with reasonable requests) but... I really don't think the devs have the malice for the players that we some times feel, and it's not helpful to accuse them of such things.
Sounds like a bug. Unfortunately.
Not a bug /10char
Joined January 2009
Nah, that's not really how they treat it. They just used it in this particular example because the ships that everyone was on about were already in the game. So the fleet module allows them to make a tweak but still make it part of something people have to buy.
The Dyson stuff was different.
Their avenues for profit remain the same. They make new ships for people to buy. They really don't go back and tweak up ships people already bought. Well major changes anyways.
Sounds like somebody needs to read the patch notes.
I hadn't seen them yet. Have now.
This is great news for me. Frees up two of my builds in a positive way. And makes Science Team a much more valuable slot for me. Which I used to try a lot to fit in anyways because of Sub Nuc.
Good move, imo.
I am both potentially thrilled and wary of this change... would I love for subnuke not to be the uber overwhelming kick to the nethers it is now because of this change? Yes. Is it right for science to be taking a hit like that?.... well tac's fire on my mark and most debuffs have been useless in pvp for forever now, so I suppose on one hand it levels that out, but I don't think sci's other powers remotely match attack pattern alpha. That and it kinda seems like mostly a buff to escorts and tactical as an escort can most easily slot all three level one team powers and have plenty of heal and tank plus all their uber damage while so much sci and eng cc/debuffs will be shrugged right off.
I guess we'll have to see what it's like for realzies if it makes it to holo, I am having too much difficulty settling on a verdict just imagining what it might do. And since I think this is a a dev response to tac team op-ness and them wanting to expend as little time/effort as possible on other solutions, it is unlikely they will soften the cleanses of these abilities so that they aren't hard counters anymore. By which I mean, instead of it knocking things off entirely, it just shortens the duration of the effect or makes the effect less pronounced, like instead of -40 resistance from a debuff, it might make it -20. But again, this would be coding work that I think they're trying to avoid.
still would of liked it to be a uni or at least a science ensign but this can at least make it workable now. still not a great solution but at least workable
I think it's really designed to help out the Galaxy R more than anything due to it freeing up E-Team usage with all of those Ensign Engi slots.
So I'm trying not to overthink it.
The team powers change is what seems really strange to me. It goes against one of the more fundamental mechanics, and just seems less fun and interesting. Not to mention being a pretty big chunk o' power creep.
Now, we can use the others team, and still use TT. Which mean, we'll see more sci/eng team, and probably less TSS and the like.
I haven't really used Science Team in a long time...would it really be better than the regen and damage reduction of TSS?
The GalX gets a boost as well, since it can now cycle Tac and Eng teams as well as get a defense bonus because it can now turn well enough to keep its speed up. It was tough before, now it's going to be a beast to take down.
u clearly did not fly any of the really good cruisers or even a scimitar, right?
the gal x looks like a warship but it doesnt pack a punch, its just there, nibbling away at enemys where other dreads (the scim) just destroys everything in its path. a lot of ppl were hoping for something in between those two but now (as before the so called revamp) the fed dread is their weakest cruiser type ship
Yes, that was unexpected.
Not sure if removing the shared cooldown on the various teams is a bad idea or a good one, tbh.
On the one hand, it could be construed as power creep.
But, on the other hand is does mean we need to take a new look at the utility of ensign slots.
Over thinking things is my specialty. :P
I suppose the devs are thinking that the number of boff powers/doffs that would need to be devoted to have the full eng/sci/tac team trifecta going constently requires a reasonable sacrifice of offensive/doff capability to be balanced... it may well be, we'll have to see. I can see that in some ways it alleviates the woes of the three eng ensigns, but it doesn't eliminate tac team's absolute necessity for me to be able to free up a that ensign tac power for an offensive skill... though I could be wrong, the combination of using eng team and sci team in tandem may be enough to match a tac team so that I could do that... though it speaks volumes to tac team's op-ness if it takes the other two teams combined just to try to match it. >>
Plus I'm imagining ody's and recluse healers with the ability to throw eng team and sci team three at the same time onto a heal target, plus a tac team if absolutely necessary... and trying to kill those zombies is going to be incredibly difficult when they turn their heals to themselves... they were hard enough to kill when they had to choose a tac team over a sci team to survive so that you might be able to nuke them, but now... lol.
No, actually I think it makes great sense. All these Team abilities had in common, really, was they all had 'Team' in their name. But, logically, there was no reason for Engineering Team to be affected by, say, Tactical Team; especially since the latter is running continuously, for many peeps.
Thank you for taking the time to test, and report your findings back.
Holy TRIBBLE, that actually sounds... good? It must be a bug.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
I honestly don't know which one is more powerful, haven't played sci team for a long time. And I think that's the idea, we are now considering using it, while most players used TT and didn't even bother checking sci/engi team.
Also, and I'm not really sure at all, so don't quote me on that, but don't ST remove the tractor beam debuff/borg shield neutralization ? Because that would be really interesting for that.
Finally, isn't there a DOFF adding a shield resistance to ST ?
If that's true, I'm getting it immediately.
Science Team is really only good for one thing: removing subnuc. Against Voth, this can be very useful. Heretofore I never slotted it, as it messed with my TT cycling, but now? Hmmm...
Thx for the info and image.
Hmm, only 1 Lt. Tact, eh? I could see that be a bit of an issue.
All the cruisers in game(at least the ones I had contact with) that are capable of slotting dual cannons, have either lt com tac or lt com universal.
Why not follow that?
It seems that most ships with cannons have the ability to slot skills that influence the cannons and allow them to slot them twice for almost constant use. Gal X is crippled in that respect.
What gal x needs is lt com uni, ens uni, lt tac made lt eng. Otherwise its another illogical move in a series of poor decisions.
(I was so much hoping the Avenger would be the Dred update
I saw almost the same arguments (read: whines) about the Dyson Science Destroyer ... That is a SCIENCE ship, that had some extra options to allow it to 'bite' harder ... Yet people were ******** because it wasn't a beat all Escort! ... I 'm reading the same things here ...
The upgrades have given this CRUISER a bit more of an edge, given it a few 'teeth' if you will, but it's till a CRUISER, and not an Escort or Battleship!!!
I don't think I'll be buying because I already have a Tac Oddy, but I can see what the appeal is ... Maybe not too much for existing Gal-X owners, but certainly for a player who is looking to get into a CRUISER, but still wants to do some damage.
I think you're missing the point: Why give the Fleet Galaxy a 4th Tact console, when it only has a single Lt. Tact station? That makes no real sense. That's like Cryptic saying: "Coolbeans! We're going Tact with it... but not really."