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Feedback on upcoming Ground Kit Revamp
majortiraomega
Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
The new Priority One Podcast with CaptainGeko revealed that Season 9 will feature a new kit revamp. (Listen to Interview, jump to 25:10 for Kit Revamp)
Apparently, all kits will be broken up into individual abilities. It will then be possible to slot five kit abilities into the kit slot at level 50. However, they also plan to convert non-consumable devices, such as the Shard of Possibilities, Ophidian Cane, and the Frosted Boots into Universal kit powers. As a result, players would be forced to decide between existing class kit abilities and non-consumable devices. Geko did ask for feedback, thus I decided to start a thread on the subject.
For me personally, I'd prefer that all items currently classified as devices to remain as such. The kit revamp itself will be great, players will be able to choose between their various kit abilities. However, I think devices should remain in their current state, it adds an additional level of customization to characters. If they were converted to universal kit abilities, we would lose a level of customization and we'd be further limited on the number of usable non-consumable abilities.
Apparently, all kits will be broken up into individual abilities. It will then be possible to slot five kit abilities into the kit slot at level 50. However, they also plan to convert non-consumable devices, such as the Shard of Possibilities, Ophidian Cane, and the Frosted Boots into Universal kit powers. As a result, players would be forced to decide between existing class kit abilities and non-consumable devices. Geko did ask for feedback, thus I decided to start a thread on the subject.
For me personally, I'd prefer that all items currently classified as devices to remain as such. The kit revamp itself will be great, players will be able to choose between their various kit abilities. However, I think devices should remain in their current state, it adds an additional level of customization to characters. If they were converted to universal kit abilities, we would lose a level of customization and we'd be further limited on the number of usable non-consumable abilities.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Post edited by majortiraomega on
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Agreed wholeheartedly. Non-consumables are not a supplement for kit powers, they are a compliment. The shard of possibilities on my three-purple-security-doff tac officer allows for the development of a distinct "horde" playstyle. If I had to choose between that and something more basic like Ambush or Motion Acceleration I'd probably loose out on that extreme gameplay pathway (unless other options were also made available.)
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Personally, I want the kit slots to remain at 5, otherwise you will further decrease build variance because everyone will have enough slots to use the majority of the kit abilities. 5 kit slots and 4 device slots is perfect, splitting kits into separate abilities is great, but I don't want to see them go overboard on it by turning all non-consumable devices into kit abilities. You know what would come next, universal lockbox kit abilities with superior stats to existing kit abilities. I personally don't want to see that kind of thing added to the game.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Completely agree. I would only agree to the "conversion" mentioned by Geko if they added more slots to the kits (3 more?) specifically dedicated to these types of items.
There are still some details like how a borg modulation device or combat pets will factor into that. Overall though, I think it will be a good change for the game that embraces player choice and customization.
My only concern is feature/power creep with lockboxes like we have for space equipment. Space gear is a super-convoluted mess right now(doffs, reputations, lobi gear, etc.), and this change may very well open the door for it to happen to ground combat as well. The question that remains to be seen is whether greed will (once again) win out over solid gameplay design.
That could quickly become the case if devices remained where they are, but with devices moved the pool of available kit abilities almost doubles (and will presumably only grow with time).
The bigger issue I think is that over time devices would overrun kit powers to the point that rather than everybody having room for most kit abilities, nobody has room for much of any kit abilities, having them choked out by better things from lockboxes or FEs. It's not a problem you run into with space powers, as they occupy incompatible spaces.
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Even if CaptainGeko doesn't look at the forums anymore, I'm certain AdjucatorHawk or BorticusCryptic will see this thread, especially if there are enough comments. Both of them have been very open to feedback on Ground combat in the past. We have them to thank for all of the great recent bug fixes with ground.
I heard him say that too, but it's invalid, all players with a Mk X very rare kit have 4 level III abilities. Mk XII Fleet kits have 1 level II ability, 3 level III abilities, and 1 level IV ability. Giving us 5 level III abilities doesn't justify stripping away the ability to use device slots to slot actual devices.
If what he is suggesting goes live, we will be reduced from 9 custom abilities to 5 custom abilities. Yes, the kits are in clusters, but we still get to make that choice. The only way I could see this working would be to give all players 5 class specific kit slots, 3 class neutral kit slots (for the shard of possibilities/ect.), and keep the existing device slots for consumables. We shouldn't have to choose between slotting the Shard of Possibilities and Suppressing Fire. Kit abilities and device items need to remain separate in order to preserve the significance of actual class abilities. Otherwise the kit system will inevitably dissolve into a pure lockbox "kit ability" toolset.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Geko confirmed that all existing kits in the game will be kept in their existing clusters when the game goes live. Players make take apart the cluster, but they apparently won't be required to do so. Thus, medical kits will still be put together. However, if you have a Borg Medical Analyst kit, it would be wise to sell it soon. Once this goes live, players will be capable of running that kit combination without paying millions of energy credits.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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Please keep the feedback positive, Geko has stated that this is still in the early stages of development. We still have plenty of time to offer them feedback on the proposed change before they make it.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
There is nothing positive that can be said about such a hypothetical change. I stand by that statement. I am 100% opposed to converting ground devices into kit powers unless they allow kits with 9 powers in them, which you know they will not do. -edit- OR if they reduced the cooldowns on some of the 'device powers' so that you could trigger them more than once every 5 or 10 minutes. /edit
But fine, you want me to say something nice. In theory I like the idea of splitting all of the existing kit powers into individual things that can be combined as desired by the player; it'd be a good thing (and would be a good addition to a general crafting overhaul, hint hint Cryptic) and would allow players to have only the abilities that they actually want and none that they don't want.
However, one reason that kit powers are segregated right now is that certain combinations are guaranteed to be overpowered which means a ground powers nerf would likely be rolled out alongside this system. Cryptic has already had to deal with players hot swapping kits by making certain objects or effects unspawn when the kit is removed and a new one is slotted, this would essentially reverse that by allowing the kits to be combined.
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Agreed, that will be the best part about the kit revamp.
From the sound of it, they plan to limit the "type" of kit abilities to a certain number. I am hoping this will block players from slotting things like Ambush and Rally Cry together. I'm hoping this also brings improvements to some of the more underperforming ground kit abilities. I made a detailed list a back when adjucatorhawk was looking for feedback, as did many others. Who knows, we might see some changes with Season 9 along with the kit ability revamp.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I'm still vehemently opposed to turning devices into kit powers.
p.s. Yes to Ophidian pimp cane smacking melee weapon.
Joined January 2009
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Hmmm, so five slots.
I can see it working, provided that there were some restrictions.
Two ways of doing it.
First one, restrict certain currently class based powers to their current classes.
So, for instance, only engineers could slot quantum mortars, but all classes could slot medical tricorder.
The other option is to retain the class categories but open up all the skills too pick
However, a quantity of your slots would be reserved for class specific powers only.
On balance, I think the latter would work best.
Level one, three and five slots being class specific.
Slots two and four being open.
As for devices, I actually don't mind them being reclassed as universal kit powers provided there's a slot especially reserved for universal kit powers.
Means a toon would start with two kit slots. One class based, one universal.
ETA realised my explanation of the universal slot was unclear. It would be in addition to the normal slots, giving you six kit slots at level 50
I like the general idea of custom kits but we also need to make sure that some kit powers cannot be combined together. It was mentioned earlier about previous kit swapping that used to occur and we don't want to see that kind thing happen in one kit.
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From what I got from the podcast, kit abilities will still be restricted by class. You won't be able to slot a Quantum Mortar on a Tactical officer. From what Geko said, Tactical abilities will be divided into two categories, buff and assault abilities. Buffs are things like suppressing fire and assault abilities are things like photon grenade. It appears they plan to have the kit restrict the number of a specific buff type a tactical officer may have, that will probably come in more detail later on. However, he also said that any kit combination available now will also be available after the revamp.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Put your worries on that issue to rest, a fairly recent post by adjudicatorhawk: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14546341&postcount=7
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Ok, fair enough.
Although, it does seem to me that there may be room for some tier 1 abilities open to all.
Tier 1 medical tricorder for instance. essentially make tier one somehwat generic before specilaising later on. gives all the classes a tiny bit of flexibility to get a tactical scientist, or an engineery tactician.
If they did go through with it I'd imagine this wouldn't effect combat pets like the Hortas?
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Or maybe dedicated kits could get higher levels of their specialty skills.
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