Being able to put together a custom kit would be nice, but not worth the can of poisonous worms this could open.
I keep hypos and shield charges in device slots, along with something like frosted boots, tribble, gambling device, remodulator, rebreather or whatever else fits the mission. I never use pricey consumables, just what I can easily replace. For some reason, I find the Horta pet very amusing.
The first thing this idea brought to mind was "How will they monetize this?" My guess would be extra special super duper kit powers in lockboxes, and/or kits with extra power slots. They made a carrier revamp that left hangar pets still as dumb as dirt, only now they have these ridiculous Super Mario stars popping over them and start out a bit nerfed straight out the hangar. Of course, you can buy a trait that makes them un-nerf faster. I'd imagine something similar will happen here.
Keep kits as kits and devices as devices. Don't waste time and resources fixing stuff that isn't broken; there's plenty you could be fixing that -is- broken and has been for quite a while.
Yes on customizable kits, though how to best to implement them I do not know.
No on non-consumable devices turning into universal kit powers. Just no. Please.
I don't think we need extra ability slots on kits at this point. Perhaps at some point in the future, or as special built-in extras on certain unique kits.
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Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
I'm going with what most everyone is saying. Customizing the kits will be great but don't change anything that goes into device slots to kit powers. I use 3 non consumable devices right now. So instead of my 4 powers and 3 devices I will be forced to use use a 5 power kit and end up with only two kit powers and 3 devices in kit power slots. A loss of 2 powers from what we have available to us right now.
Then there's all the items we give to our doffs as items that they won't be able to use any more. A further loss of power. So please do not change any device items to kit powers.
The first thing this idea brought to mind was "How will they monetize this?"
This is actually a question I've been considering. While I can think of many ways they'd monetize the add-on kit pieces (c-store, flat-out lock boxes, etc.), I also have a hard time imagining how they'd make money off of shoving the non-consumable devices into kit slots. While it is true they are not non-consumables, consumables aren't exactly a huge source of revenue, and those that are particularly valuable seem to hardly ever be seen (see: limited-release Exocomp attack drones), and often enough are considered junk prizes in the lock boxes. Things like Hortas and Tribbles would end up competing with kit slots. As at least some Tribbles and Hortas are available as C-Store items, and although they are definitely not expensive enough to be a cash cow, they'd still be less money in the bank as they'd be less attractive. Add-on kit pieces would also be hard to cram into it. As such, it seems like it's a convoluted way of doing it - and may be a good way to shoot themselves in the foot.
It would seem most of the game disagrees. I consider consumables a pain and little else. Really expensive ones rot in my bank unused forever. The only consumables I use are large hypos, large shield charges, and batteries in space - and the latter is almost always as an emergency subsystem restart.
I foresee this change, if it goes through, as adding little but frustration to ground-based combat. There are much better ways to do this.
I also see it as a major disadvantage in terms of fighting the Borg, if the frequency rotator ends up a "kit power." As-is it's a hassle and a pain to have to slot one in the devices slots with one of these things before you get an STF ground set - I don't even bother fighting Borg on ground until I do on most toons.
The only way I can see this working is if the "devices" are made much more effective, and in the case of the ground pets, much less buggy, and have a significantly reduced cooldown. And does NOT require captain powers to be slotted - I fear the day that comes.
If I were to design the system I'd put in kit harnesses or something like that. 4-5 profession-specific abilities, 1-2 "universal." Possibly have slight variations on it for different harnesses. Still have the devices slots, but you can stick an extra device in one of the universal slots. But that's just me.
I think this all speaks more to a need to revamp consumables though. I don't think we can stomp our feet and demand changes halt if part of the change is uncomfortable or if it's a multi-step process.
I think you'd have an easier time arguing for six kit slots than you'd have arguing for non-consumable devices not to be changed into kit powers.
If you don't like consumables (and I don't either), I think the solution is that how consumables work needs to change, not that consumable slots should be filled with non-consumable items.
We need to be arguing for more changes, not things staying as they are.
Holy TRIBBLE, how many things are they planning on taking away from the players?
For the official count, i really hope that they leave devices as is, and leave them separate from the Kits.
The kit powers are nice and let us build towards specific builds, and this new ability slotting will be a nice touch, but making the devices a part of that will effectively be taking away from both.
Please leave kits and devices as their own separate things.
So, what, this is a plan to make ground even less popular, and thus all anyone will have equipped anymore is the noncombat ground powers like Frosted Boots to make getting around the map easier, while all the device slots become empty because there is no longer anything I can put in them? Consumables are worthless: I can't use them without no longer having them, and if I no longer have them and must now do without them, why did I bother in the first place? Since I won't have them, I must adapt to doing without them. If I do so, then I never needed them to begin with. That's why the only thing I ever use is Small Hypo, because everything else runs out and cannot be replaced, so I may as well just get used to not having them.
wow... I'm listening to this Podcast, and a lot of what i'm hearing is them planning on shafting the fans again and again.
A lot of people are spending a lot of dilithium and Fleet marks for Purple MK XII kits, and it almost sounds like they're out of luck, then when he's talking about the Crafting and how top level crafters will only be getting a small something out of their maxed out crafting skill is like the time the kept changing currencies on us. Each time we were getting less rather than an equal amount. Even when he starts talking about the points in our class skills, it seems like we're going to be getting shorted, since we will be able to ignore unused powers, but have to pay more points into powers we're already getting at max just from leveling.
I'm not dead-set against kit-ifying devices, but it's hard to see where the advantage to this specific change is.
First of all, there are plenty of devices that wouldn't transfer well to being in a kit. Frosted boots are an out-of-combat item, as are tribbles. Neither would really ever be worth a kit slot. Remodulators and rebreathers are required by your boffs for certain missions, and so being a device is the only way that would work without a major Boff power revamp, and I don't think they'd hold up the kit changes for that. And flashlights don't have enough utility to be worth a slot that could be a real power either.
Next, the current cooldowns for the Shard, Cane, Horta pets, and triolic pattern enhancer are all too long to fit in with existing kit powers. The powers themselves would have to be re-tuned in order to fit in kits, and then, they would no longer be available for Boffs to use.
So what could fix this? Like mentioned before, a special kit slot could be made specifically for 'long-cooldown' powers or 'utility' powers. But would it be worth having to move your flashlight from kit to kit when you want to change your whole power set?
Maybe the Cane, Shard, Enhancer, and Hortas could be converted to a faster cooldown. But this might require nerfing their effectiveness, unless the requirement to fit into a kit is enough of a downside. Also, these powers are often a 'last-ditch' option, and so could be unpopular as part of a normal playstyle without changes.
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I love the idea of fully customizable layout of 5 abilities for tac, sci, and engineer. Great idea! Though adding shard of possibilities or other non consumable devices to this list would give us less options in the end. I propose that they offer up two slots for consumables for a character and keep the 4 as non consumable where I can slot of frequency converter, tribble, shard and ophidian cane and not have to choose which one to give up for a hypo or shield battery. Give us more options not less!
I don't get it. Wouldn't the best form of customization be to enable people to choose the skills in their kits...?
I understand what you are saying, and I agree, but it would hurt that customization because people would simply ignore anything that they didn't want to give up for kit powers.
As it stands now you have:
1 kit with 4 powers (ignoring fleet kits for the moment)
4 device slots
The kits are set in stone, so you cannot change them. But you also have 4 device slots you can change freely to whatever you want. A 'normal' player for the sake of example will use...say...
Hypos
Tribble
Borg Remodulator
Shard of Possibilities.
Now, going on what Geko seems to have said, and the speculation in the thread, you would have:
4 'kit' slots (presuming)
4 device slots (presuming that they don't change)
In the 4 kit slots, you could equip any 4 abilities you wished of course that are on normal kits now. BUT you would also have to equip any non-consumable devices in there as well. How badly are people honestly going to want to equip something like a Tribble or a Borg Remodulator if it means possibly giving up say...Ambush, or Medical Tricorder, or Chroniton Mine Barrier?
Most of the devices like that are useful BECAUSE they are devices. They provide an extra utility to the player, and are a 'rough' equal to universal consoles in space (though a lot less game-breaking). Useful, but not interfering in the normal affairs.
I mean, someone running around with 'toys' like only having a cane, gambling device, shard, and something else is not going to do very well with this proposed system.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
On one point, I have my Grenade Satchel Kit of which I never use the Stun grenade and the smoke grenade just for the dancing floor at Club 47. So my main wouldn't have a problem. Next to that, my main has both unique devices, the frosted boots, hypo's for combat and 3 tribbles (including the free IDIC one). So for my main this would be a huge improvement.
But I also have 5 alts. Including 2 engineers and a science char. And especially my Medic Kit cannot loose any item. So I would have to sacrifice either the Cane, the Shard or one of my kit powers. So I am not sure here.
I'd also like to know if where stuff like tribbles or the Risa jetpack will end up. Having those in devices is simple. But a tribble as a kit power. I'm not really stuffing the thing into a mean-looking grenade holder. That would be weird.
And then, there is also the risk of repeating the console-debacle. As it stands, if you want high DPS (I'm talking about the 20-30k formulas) you need to stuff at least half of your consoles with universal consoles. The higher your DPS, the less engineering consoles you slot, followed by sci consoles for any build other than plasma. To find a ship without any universal consoles that can break 5k DPS is becoming more difficult by the day.
So, I'd probably enjoy this solution: 6 kit powers. If needed, make 4 of them career-specific, and allow the other 2 to be used as anyone pleases (with a Shard for example). This would increase the possible number of builds (I'd run plasma grenade, photon grenade, stealth and something else of which I'm not what it would be), next to the 2 unique items.
While I respect Mr. Rivera's opinion on the kit overhaul, I must disagree with the fundamentals of his ideas.
The problem with customizing your kits is not every power is created equally. If given the choice between Fuse Armor and an Energy Turret, most engineers are going to straight up go with the Energy Turret.
Mr. Rivera, you've been with this game for 4 years. You have not yet learned your lesson that when you have a game that panders to the lowest common denominator, damage and the efficiency at which enemies are killed will reign supreme.
I would be 100% on board with your ideas if other kit powers somehow contributed to missions more, or if healing/support actually gave someone a cookie or was (gasp!) somehow necessary to complete missions.
As it stands, because of Cryptic's reluctance to make support/healing on par with killing enemies efficiently, your kit overhaul will inevitably cause a loss of customization as people will simply pick the most overpowered abilities and slap them on their kit and call it a day.
Then you have the problem of having kit abilities that are seldomly used.
Then you'll end up digging your hole deeper by revamping those abilities to be on par or altering them to the point they'll be as desirable as the abilities that help with raw damage.
I've predicted the future of game design before, and I've been correct. I'm predicting it again. If you don't alter the fundamentals of gameplay where support/healing is viable and desirable, then you are once again faced with power stagnation as only the most overpowered abilities for ground kits will be used by the majority.
In the same way you are somehow 'shocked' that few people used mines when compared to torpedos, or that you are somehow 'shocked' that few used torpedos or mines because raw energy damage brings home the bacon, I have no doubt you will also be 'shocked' when you implement your ideas for kits and find out people only use an extremely limited number of available kit powers, typically those that facilitates the destruction of enemies in an expedious fashion.
Because when you don't reward any other type of gameplay, that's what you will get.
However, on that note, I also have no doubt that you will ignore this advice I heed just as you've ignored my advice before and the advice of many other players who have predicted the same blunders you inevitably create.
So I look forward to seeing this kit revamp and then the subsequent nerfing/buffing in the coming months because 'somehow' players tend to gravitate towards the same overpowered/overused abilities instead of concentrating on the root of the problem.
Which is of course, make support/healing viable or even necessary to play the game.
"Hot swapping"? I've never been able to swap my ground kit while I was in combat, so please explain what your talking about?
You don't do it while in combat. This mainly affected engineers setting up a base with, say, bunker fabrication before an attack, then switching kits to something else like enemy neutralization while all of their summoned items remained, effectively allowing them to "use" two kits at once during an engagement. Or there were issues with Combat Supply. I've never done it myself but a lot of veterans can tell you about it, or you can search for old complaint threads and patch notes.
Since the thread discussion has moved towards the state of consumables, the only ones I use are large hypos and large shield charges on ground, or batteries in space. They're cheap, easy to buy in bulk on a consistent basis, and they'll pull from the inventory first instead of from the stack equipped on your character which makes them much more useful than other devices (for ground anyway, space batteries don't do that). The rest are a complete waste.
-Food items? Why would I even have those in my inventory? They can only be used out of combat which is not when I need them. I have 100 large hypos on my person or in my inventory so why would I even have a food item with me? Plus my armor heals me out of combat anyway. Additionally if I have a tribble in my inventory (which I likely will, as I sometimes carry a few for different effects, or un-slot the tribble after applying its buff) they just eat the damn food anyway like a rodent menace.
-Boost items such as Chag Grass, Dosi Rotgut, Ketracel Stimulants, etc, that give a bonus of some sort (similar to tribbles) also never touch my device slots because it is awkward and tedious to slot them, then drag the power to the power tray (because half of the time it doesn't even appear at all), then use them, then re-slot whatever device they had replaced, then drag that old item's power back to the tray. It takes way too long in the fast-paced world of ground combat; there is no time for that. These items should be useable directly from the inventory. I do occasionally use a couple of the consumables from the Omega reputation store for the Hive STF but only because they're still relatively cheap and ground STFs are played less often than other ground content where those particular omega items aren't as useful anyway (they're more specialized) and I can tolerate rarely dealing with UI clunk instead of constantly having to deal with it. Maybe if Cryptic would actually fix the awkward UI problems with devices I would use more than 2 of them the way Gecko apparently wants.
-Lobi consumables. Hah. hahahahahahahahahah. No wait I'm not done yet. BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a tremendous waste of time and resources. No. Just no. I'm not going to squander away the rarest most expensive currency in the game on items that give a fleeting bonus for a few seconds in one of literally TENS OF THOUSANDS of transient combat encounters that will give me NO long term benefits whatsoever. These are high-cost-low-reward items. I would really love to use some of those consumables too, they look cool, but no, they're insanely overpriced considering I fight dozens to hundreds or thousands of enemies PER DAY. This is the exact reason why I use 2 or 3 ground device slots on the unique nonconsumable devices; they provide a good benefit over a long period of time and I don't have to deal with artificial scarcity or the clunky UI bugs that come with equipping devices during the heat of combat or in the combat -> short travel -> combat -> short travel flow that players experience on ground. If they get converted to kit powers I will just live without them and be pissed that Cryptic took something away from us instead of acquiescing to Gecko's desires and using more consumables because there are fundamental problems with how they are currently implemented.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Does this mean you'll try to flog us stuff such as... Tetryon Oribitals, Transphasic grenades, Tri-colbalt mortars, Polaron turrets and so on in future lockboxes?
I understand what you are saying, and I agree, but it would hurt that customization because people would simply ignore anything that they didn't want to give up for kit powers.
As it stands now you have:
1 kit with 4 powers (ignoring fleet kits for the moment)
4 device slots
The kits are set in stone, so you cannot change them. But you also have 4 device slots you can change freely to whatever you want. A 'normal' player for the sake of example will use...say...
Hypos
Tribble
Borg Remodulator
Shard of Possibilities.
Now, going on what Geko seems to have said, and the speculation in the thread, you would have:
4 'kit' slots (presuming)
4 device slots (presuming that they don't change)
In the 4 kit slots, you could equip any 4 abilities you wished of course that are on normal kits now. BUT you would also have to equip any non-consumable devices in there as well. How badly are people honestly going to want to equip something like a Tribble or a Borg Remodulator if it means possibly giving up say...Ambush, or Medical Tricorder, or Chroniton Mine Barrier?
Most of the devices like that are useful BECAUSE they are devices. They provide an extra utility to the player, and are a 'rough' equal to universal consoles in space (though a lot less game-breaking). Useful, but not interfering in the normal affairs.
I mean, someone running around with 'toys' like only having a cane, gambling device, shard, and something else is not going to do very well with this proposed system.
Yeah, this is something I don't like. I use Shard, etc... because I don't like to use consumables. having to give up kit slots for them would suck.
Most kits I only really use 2-3 abilities from the kit regularly. I could rather easily drop 1. But.... as-is, I use 3 reusable devices on most characters. Unless it's gonna get changed to 6/2 instead of 4/4, I'm gonan have a problem since most of my ground item slots will become worthless.
Does this mean you'll try to flog us stuff such as... Tetryon Oribitals, Transphasic grenades, Tri-colbalt mortars, Polaron turrets and so on in future lockboxes?
Oddly enough I actually LIKE the idea of lockbox kits.... It gives them a good reason to make new kit powers, and that is something that adds variety to the game.
It is only being done so Gecko can monetize kit powers. It happened to traits, it will be happening to skills as well....
I do not agree with devices becoming special kit powers, as all that will happen, is my not using them at all.
On my Main, I will never give up my turret for the shard of possibilities etc. Just wont happen...
I don't buy the "Cryptic is greedy" explanation.
They could make lockbox kits WITHOUT revamping the kit system. I think it's more that the devs have never been happy with the current kit system and simply didn't get around to changing it until now.
STO already has far too few abilities. I'm definitely not a fan of giving up a potential for 9 reusable abilities (some existing kits have 5, iirc) to just 5 total.
If true, no wonder they gave away a Horta - those non-consumables are scheduled to be even more useless.
Let's give space everything with extra op consoles. Let's look at ground and take away the fun of ground pvp. So disappointing with 5 slots and the loss of the shard and cane. No one will be using them anymore
Most of us have been wanting to mix/match kit powers since launch , this would be sweet.
Converting devices and such to count for the 5 slot limit? not so sweet :P
Funny considering how much a big deal they used to make about the special devices ( re-run weeks anyone ? )
Assume this is coming for reasons other than quality of life player improvments : they really want us blowing cash on those stupid lobi consumable and we will no doubt see 'ground kit powers' inside the next lockbox...
The new Priority One Podcast with CaptainGeko revealed that Season 9 will feature a new kit revamp. (Listen to Interview, jump to 25:10 for Kit Revamp)
Apparently, all kits will be broken up into individual abilities. It will then be possible to slot five kit abilities into the kit slot at level 50. However, they also plan to convert non-consumable devices, such as the Shard of Possibilities, Ophidian Cane, and the Frosted Boots into Universal kit powers. As a result, players would be forced to decide between existing class kit abilities and non-consumable devices. Geko did ask for feedback, thus I decided to start a thread on the subject.
For me personally, I'd prefer that all items currently classified as devices to remain as such. The kit revamp itself will be great, players will be able to choose between their various kit abilities. However, I think devices should remain in their current state, it adds an additional level of customization to characters. If they were converted to universal kit abilities, we would lose a level of customization and we'd be further limited on the number of usable non-consumable abilities.
I agree. Five-slot kits are not enough to compensate for the loss of slots available to use for special powers that are completely unrelated to a career. Those abilities were originally rewarded as devices and should remain as such.
If they could be slotted into either a kit or a device slot, I'd be fine with it. I would also be okay with it if they implemented kits as six slots.
I would also like to see them add a separate ground pet slot, for combat and/or non-combat pets. That, or make allowances for "Pet Handling" kits that would finally allow KDF to summon targs or saurs.
And while I'm opening up the wish list, Gorn should be able to slot a kit power to "Throw Rock".
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They could make lockbox kits WITHOUT revamping the kit system. I think it's more that the devs have never been happy with the current kit system and simply didn't get around to changing it until now.
Never said they were greedy.. :rolleyes:
The devices being turned into kit powers, is my problem.
In general I share the same sentiment everyone has shared, the kit revamp sounds fine, but leave my shard and cane alone!
If they go ahead anyway, because Cryptic sometimes can't be convinced about their mistakes like the calendar removal, I'll just keep my cane and shared glued to those device slots, since Geko stated that they might let you keep them in there grandfathered.
Comments
I keep hypos and shield charges in device slots, along with something like frosted boots, tribble, gambling device, remodulator, rebreather or whatever else fits the mission. I never use pricey consumables, just what I can easily replace. For some reason, I find the Horta pet very amusing.
The first thing this idea brought to mind was "How will they monetize this?" My guess would be extra special super duper kit powers in lockboxes, and/or kits with extra power slots. They made a carrier revamp that left hangar pets still as dumb as dirt, only now they have these ridiculous Super Mario stars popping over them and start out a bit nerfed straight out the hangar. Of course, you can buy a trait that makes them un-nerf faster. I'd imagine something similar will happen here.
Keep kits as kits and devices as devices. Don't waste time and resources fixing stuff that isn't broken; there's plenty you could be fixing that -is- broken and has been for quite a while.
No on non-consumable devices turning into universal kit powers. Just no. Please.
I don't think we need extra ability slots on kits at this point. Perhaps at some point in the future, or as special built-in extras on certain unique kits.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Then there's all the items we give to our doffs as items that they won't be able to use any more. A further loss of power. So please do not change any device items to kit powers.
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This is actually a question I've been considering. While I can think of many ways they'd monetize the add-on kit pieces (c-store, flat-out lock boxes, etc.), I also have a hard time imagining how they'd make money off of shoving the non-consumable devices into kit slots. While it is true they are not non-consumables, consumables aren't exactly a huge source of revenue, and those that are particularly valuable seem to hardly ever be seen (see: limited-release Exocomp attack drones), and often enough are considered junk prizes in the lock boxes. Things like Hortas and Tribbles would end up competing with kit slots. As at least some Tribbles and Hortas are available as C-Store items, and although they are definitely not expensive enough to be a cash cow, they'd still be less money in the bank as they'd be less attractive. Add-on kit pieces would also be hard to cram into it. As such, it seems like it's a convoluted way of doing it - and may be a good way to shoot themselves in the foot.
I think this all speaks more to a need to revamp consumables though. I don't think we can stomp our feet and demand changes halt if part of the change is uncomfortable or if it's a multi-step process.
I think you'd have an easier time arguing for six kit slots than you'd have arguing for non-consumable devices not to be changed into kit powers.
If you don't like consumables (and I don't either), I think the solution is that how consumables work needs to change, not that consumable slots should be filled with non-consumable items.
We need to be arguing for more changes, not things staying as they are.
For the official count, i really hope that they leave devices as is, and leave them separate from the Kits.
The kit powers are nice and let us build towards specific builds, and this new ability slotting will be a nice touch, but making the devices a part of that will effectively be taking away from both.
Please leave kits and devices as their own separate things.
Devices are for additional features. They're nowhere near as useful as kit skills, and often have a freakishly long cooldown.
Revamp the kit skills, YES... Add more of them, even, yes!
Don't mess up the skill/device dichotomy. Just don't.
A lot of people are spending a lot of dilithium and Fleet marks for Purple MK XII kits, and it almost sounds like they're out of luck, then when he's talking about the Crafting and how top level crafters will only be getting a small something out of their maxed out crafting skill is like the time the kept changing currencies on us. Each time we were getting less rather than an equal amount. Even when he starts talking about the points in our class skills, it seems like we're going to be getting shorted, since we will be able to ignore unused powers, but have to pay more points into powers we're already getting at max just from leveling.
First of all, there are plenty of devices that wouldn't transfer well to being in a kit. Frosted boots are an out-of-combat item, as are tribbles. Neither would really ever be worth a kit slot. Remodulators and rebreathers are required by your boffs for certain missions, and so being a device is the only way that would work without a major Boff power revamp, and I don't think they'd hold up the kit changes for that. And flashlights don't have enough utility to be worth a slot that could be a real power either.
Next, the current cooldowns for the Shard, Cane, Horta pets, and triolic pattern enhancer are all too long to fit in with existing kit powers. The powers themselves would have to be re-tuned in order to fit in kits, and then, they would no longer be available for Boffs to use.
So what could fix this? Like mentioned before, a special kit slot could be made specifically for 'long-cooldown' powers or 'utility' powers. But would it be worth having to move your flashlight from kit to kit when you want to change your whole power set?
Maybe the Cane, Shard, Enhancer, and Hortas could be converted to a faster cooldown. But this might require nerfing their effectiveness, unless the requirement to fit into a kit is enough of a downside. Also, these powers are often a 'last-ditch' option, and so could be unpopular as part of a normal playstyle without changes.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
-A.K.A Syrah R.R.W MJOLNIR ***SAD PANDAS***
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I understand what you are saying, and I agree, but it would hurt that customization because people would simply ignore anything that they didn't want to give up for kit powers.
As it stands now you have:
1 kit with 4 powers (ignoring fleet kits for the moment)
4 device slots
The kits are set in stone, so you cannot change them. But you also have 4 device slots you can change freely to whatever you want. A 'normal' player for the sake of example will use...say...
Hypos
Tribble
Borg Remodulator
Shard of Possibilities.
Now, going on what Geko seems to have said, and the speculation in the thread, you would have:
4 'kit' slots (presuming)
4 device slots (presuming that they don't change)
In the 4 kit slots, you could equip any 4 abilities you wished of course that are on normal kits now. BUT you would also have to equip any non-consumable devices in there as well. How badly are people honestly going to want to equip something like a Tribble or a Borg Remodulator if it means possibly giving up say...Ambush, or Medical Tricorder, or Chroniton Mine Barrier?
Most of the devices like that are useful BECAUSE they are devices. They provide an extra utility to the player, and are a 'rough' equal to universal consoles in space (though a lot less game-breaking). Useful, but not interfering in the normal affairs.
I mean, someone running around with 'toys' like only having a cane, gambling device, shard, and something else is not going to do very well with this proposed system.
On one point, I have my Grenade Satchel Kit of which I never use the Stun grenade and the smoke grenade just for the dancing floor at Club 47. So my main wouldn't have a problem. Next to that, my main has both unique devices, the frosted boots, hypo's for combat and 3 tribbles (including the free IDIC one). So for my main this would be a huge improvement.
But I also have 5 alts. Including 2 engineers and a science char. And especially my Medic Kit cannot loose any item. So I would have to sacrifice either the Cane, the Shard or one of my kit powers. So I am not sure here.
I'd also like to know if where stuff like tribbles or the Risa jetpack will end up. Having those in devices is simple. But a tribble as a kit power. I'm not really stuffing the thing into a mean-looking grenade holder. That would be weird.
And then, there is also the risk of repeating the console-debacle. As it stands, if you want high DPS (I'm talking about the 20-30k formulas) you need to stuff at least half of your consoles with universal consoles. The higher your DPS, the less engineering consoles you slot, followed by sci consoles for any build other than plasma. To find a ship without any universal consoles that can break 5k DPS is becoming more difficult by the day.
So, I'd probably enjoy this solution: 6 kit powers. If needed, make 4 of them career-specific, and allow the other 2 to be used as anyone pleases (with a Shard for example). This would increase the possible number of builds (I'd run plasma grenade, photon grenade, stealth and something else of which I'm not what it would be), next to the 2 unique items.
Just my two slips of Latinum.
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The problem with customizing your kits is not every power is created equally. If given the choice between Fuse Armor and an Energy Turret, most engineers are going to straight up go with the Energy Turret.
Mr. Rivera, you've been with this game for 4 years. You have not yet learned your lesson that when you have a game that panders to the lowest common denominator, damage and the efficiency at which enemies are killed will reign supreme.
I would be 100% on board with your ideas if other kit powers somehow contributed to missions more, or if healing/support actually gave someone a cookie or was (gasp!) somehow necessary to complete missions.
As it stands, because of Cryptic's reluctance to make support/healing on par with killing enemies efficiently, your kit overhaul will inevitably cause a loss of customization as people will simply pick the most overpowered abilities and slap them on their kit and call it a day.
Then you have the problem of having kit abilities that are seldomly used.
Then you'll end up digging your hole deeper by revamping those abilities to be on par or altering them to the point they'll be as desirable as the abilities that help with raw damage.
I've predicted the future of game design before, and I've been correct. I'm predicting it again. If you don't alter the fundamentals of gameplay where support/healing is viable and desirable, then you are once again faced with power stagnation as only the most overpowered abilities for ground kits will be used by the majority.
In the same way you are somehow 'shocked' that few people used mines when compared to torpedos, or that you are somehow 'shocked' that few used torpedos or mines because raw energy damage brings home the bacon, I have no doubt you will also be 'shocked' when you implement your ideas for kits and find out people only use an extremely limited number of available kit powers, typically those that facilitates the destruction of enemies in an expedious fashion.
Because when you don't reward any other type of gameplay, that's what you will get.
However, on that note, I also have no doubt that you will ignore this advice I heed just as you've ignored my advice before and the advice of many other players who have predicted the same blunders you inevitably create.
So I look forward to seeing this kit revamp and then the subsequent nerfing/buffing in the coming months because 'somehow' players tend to gravitate towards the same overpowered/overused abilities instead of concentrating on the root of the problem.
Which is of course, make support/healing viable or even necessary to play the game.
You don't do it while in combat. This mainly affected engineers setting up a base with, say, bunker fabrication before an attack, then switching kits to something else like enemy neutralization while all of their summoned items remained, effectively allowing them to "use" two kits at once during an engagement. Or there were issues with Combat Supply. I've never done it myself but a lot of veterans can tell you about it, or you can search for old complaint threads and patch notes.
Since the thread discussion has moved towards the state of consumables, the only ones I use are large hypos and large shield charges on ground, or batteries in space. They're cheap, easy to buy in bulk on a consistent basis, and they'll pull from the inventory first instead of from the stack equipped on your character which makes them much more useful than other devices (for ground anyway, space batteries don't do that). The rest are a complete waste.
-Food items? Why would I even have those in my inventory? They can only be used out of combat which is not when I need them. I have 100 large hypos on my person or in my inventory so why would I even have a food item with me? Plus my armor heals me out of combat anyway. Additionally if I have a tribble in my inventory (which I likely will, as I sometimes carry a few for different effects, or un-slot the tribble after applying its buff) they just eat the damn food anyway like a rodent menace.
-Boost items such as Chag Grass, Dosi Rotgut, Ketracel Stimulants, etc, that give a bonus of some sort (similar to tribbles) also never touch my device slots because it is awkward and tedious to slot them, then drag the power to the power tray (because half of the time it doesn't even appear at all), then use them, then re-slot whatever device they had replaced, then drag that old item's power back to the tray. It takes way too long in the fast-paced world of ground combat; there is no time for that. These items should be useable directly from the inventory. I do occasionally use a couple of the consumables from the Omega reputation store for the Hive STF but only because they're still relatively cheap and ground STFs are played less often than other ground content where those particular omega items aren't as useful anyway (they're more specialized) and I can tolerate rarely dealing with UI clunk instead of constantly having to deal with it. Maybe if Cryptic would actually fix the awkward UI problems with devices I would use more than 2 of them the way Gecko apparently wants.
-Lobi consumables. Hah. hahahahahahahahahah. No wait I'm not done yet. BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a tremendous waste of time and resources. No. Just no. I'm not going to squander away the rarest most expensive currency in the game on items that give a fleeting bonus for a few seconds in one of literally TENS OF THOUSANDS of transient combat encounters that will give me NO long term benefits whatsoever. These are high-cost-low-reward items. I would really love to use some of those consumables too, they look cool, but no, they're insanely overpriced considering I fight dozens to hundreds or thousands of enemies PER DAY. This is the exact reason why I use 2 or 3 ground device slots on the unique nonconsumable devices; they provide a good benefit over a long period of time and I don't have to deal with artificial scarcity or the clunky UI bugs that come with equipping devices during the heat of combat or in the combat -> short travel -> combat -> short travel flow that players experience on ground. If they get converted to kit powers I will just live without them and be pissed that Cryptic took something away from us instead of acquiescing to Gecko's desires and using more consumables because there are fundamental problems with how they are currently implemented.
Joined January 2009
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
Most kits I only really use 2-3 abilities from the kit regularly. I could rather easily drop 1. But.... as-is, I use 3 reusable devices on most characters. Unless it's gonna get changed to 6/2 instead of 4/4, I'm gonan have a problem since most of my ground item slots will become worthless.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I do not agree with devices becoming special kit powers, as all that will happen, is my not using them at all.
On my Main, I will never give up my turret for the shard of possibilities etc. Just wont happen...
They could make lockbox kits WITHOUT revamping the kit system. I think it's more that the devs have never been happy with the current kit system and simply didn't get around to changing it until now.
My character Tsin'xing
If true, no wonder they gave away a Horta - those non-consumables are scheduled to be even more useless.
Converting devices and such to count for the 5 slot limit? not so sweet :P
Funny considering how much a big deal they used to make about the special devices ( re-run weeks anyone ? )
Assume this is coming for reasons other than quality of life player improvments : they really want us blowing cash on those stupid lobi consumable and we will no doubt see 'ground kit powers' inside the next lockbox...
I agree. Five-slot kits are not enough to compensate for the loss of slots available to use for special powers that are completely unrelated to a career. Those abilities were originally rewarded as devices and should remain as such.
If they could be slotted into either a kit or a device slot, I'd be fine with it. I would also be okay with it if they implemented kits as six slots.
I would also like to see them add a separate ground pet slot, for combat and/or non-combat pets. That, or make allowances for "Pet Handling" kits that would finally allow KDF to summon targs or saurs.
And while I'm opening up the wish list, Gorn should be able to slot a kit power to "Throw Rock".
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Never said they were greedy.. :rolleyes:
The devices being turned into kit powers, is my problem.
My character Tsin'xing
You did, I meant it as the only way it get's updated, is if it is monetized.
It can be done without being greedy, take the traits for instance...
If they go ahead anyway, because Cryptic sometimes can't be convinced about their mistakes like the calendar removal, I'll just keep my cane and shared glued to those device slots, since Geko stated that they might let you keep them in there grandfathered.