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  • organicmanfredorganicmanfred Member Posts: 3,236 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    sevmrage wrote: »
    I used ARC for a time, and uninstalled it due to performance issues. That's my stance on it. I can run STO without any major problems as long as ARC isn't on my system. I have a proper gaming rig waiting on me that can handle running ARC better, but I sill keep STO installed on this one, and will continue to use this laptop.

    If ARC is forced, I could live with it, but the option needs to be made to shut it down after STO starts.

    PWE should keep in mind that there are poor players of games that don't have the high-end computers required to handle running a bunch of stuff at once.

    ^ This

    Had also serious performamnce problems while having Arc installed.
  • mikallvnvmikallvnv Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I will never use Arc and i will quit playing(therefore quit spending $$$on) STO if it is ever required!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm only going on the information I've seen on the news and the information that been made available to me.

    http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/11/14369266-officials-say-chinese-spies-have-targeted-every-sector-of-the-us-economy?lite

    http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/Huawei-ZTE%20Investigative%20Report%20(FINAL).pdf

    I also know that a lot of STO players work for various U.S. companies. A few friends I play with do and use their own computers for both work AND to play STO.
    In-fact, I'd say a lot of Star Trek fans, gravitate toward computer and technology industries.

    It seems it's not that uncommon:
    The report allegedly implies that Huawei and ZTE install backdoors and other mechanisms that allow them to spy on the packets traversing networks containing their gear. The reports also implies that these companies? close ties to the Chinese government mean that they would share information gleaned from their snooping with the Chinese government. Thus, buying gear from these companies is akin to letting the Chinese spy on your network traffic.

    Scary stuff, but maybe I'm just putting on a tin-foil hat here, because it's fun to do so every once in awhile.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sandormen123sandormen123 Member Posts: 862 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    themarie wrote: »
    Then why does it intrusively scan my hard-drives every time I use it? All four of them(...)

    You'll see one day, someone will discover that the whole arc is actually a ninja bitcoin miningtool, distributed on millions of computers... :eek:
    /Floozy
  • o0kami87o0kami87 Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dezstravus wrote: »
    Hey themarie,

    Can you elaborate on the report regarding the hard drive scanning? Arc does check your drives to see if launchable PWE games are installed, but I'm not sure if this is the behavior you are referring to. Please share any details if anything seems amiss and I'll escalate accordingly. Alternatively, you can email us at arc_feedback@perfectworld.com.

    In regards to the browser plug-in, I am currently researching that topic to find out more technical information and hope to have more info to share on this thread soon.

    ~Dezstravus

    I can confirm this, ran a cat log on Arc, Arc accessed all directories but only accessed the exe file for NW and STO, no other files where accessed, in further testing I named a blank bin file Star Trek Online.exe and it tried to access it and then discarded it.
    First, Vice Admiral, U.S.S. Wolf Pack-F, NX-101687-FFirst., Vice Admiral, A.R.W. Moon WolfWolf, I.K.S. Frost Bite
  • ragestroke008ragestroke008 Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dezstravus wrote: »
    Arc does check your drives to see if launchable PWE games are installed

    No small amount unhappiness is coming from this point of operation in the software, perhaps if it were changed so it were an opt-in feature, or as a process to add PWE games manually. Perhaps it might go some small way to help alleviate concerns of "malicious" behaviour concerning the software.
    Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    o0kami87 wrote: »
    I can confirm this, ran a cat log on Arc, Arc accessed all directories but only accessed the exe file for NW and STO, no other files where accessed, in further testing I named a blank bin file Star Trek Online.exe and it tried to access it and then discarded it.

    OK now that really does need to be streamlined. Would explain a lot of resource hog reports on these forums. Especially for those who who have more complicated file structures.

    Maybe a run once on install and then a manual scan after in the options.

    Edit: I'm still setting up my virtual machine to do further tests. Curious to see how this interacts with mapped network drives.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1076561
    What is the goal of this Beta?

    When we first announced the new website and client, many of our players expressed concerns over a sudden migration to completely new technology. Since this is a very large user experience across the board, we felt that it would be more comfortable to let everyone try it all out and give feedback before it takes the place of our legacy infrastructure. Our primary goal for this beta will be to integrate improvements based on player feedback, and allow our players the chance to test out the new site before it goes live.

    To be honest I have to give Cryptic credit here. They admit we have concerns about it and they are trying to give us all a chance to test Arc and give feedback on improving it and fixing bugs and whatnot.

    If 2013 was any indication, Cryptic has shown they are taking feedback into consideration much more often now as there are a lot of various things in the game that they have added and/or improved upon based on what we told them.

    Lobi Crystals made account bound finally a while back. If that doesn't say "Cryptic is listening", I don't know what does. lol :P
  • thedoctorblueboxthedoctorbluebox Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    My problem with it, is making it Mandatory.

    I want to use Star Trek Online through Steam, as it is now.
  • canis36canis36 Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    themarie wrote: »
    If it checks my hard-drives once for PWE products that's fine. All it needs is a single runtime scan after installing. From that point forward... once ARC is integrated into my system... It should know when I install ANYTHING involving PWE. And it would be a simple matter for the program to do a checksum style test on any and all PWE products I use to determine if I'm a hacker.

    Given the way it integrates into my system both of those things should be no challenge to implement.

    Instead, EVERY TIME I open up Arc, all four drives light up, the system slows to a craw and stays this way for 10-15 min. All of my network functions outside of Arc/STO slow to a crawl too while ARC is running. It's doing something in the background and I have no idea what.

    I'm running six cores, 32 gig of ram, 1 year old video card, Windows 7.

    So what the heck is it doing if not scanning my hard-drives? And why does it usurp control of my connection and throttle everything?


    Are you sure it's actually ARC doing this itself and not ARC interacting oddly with an existing program?
  • genrldestructiongenrldestruction Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    My $0.02...

    The New Client:
    * The "Do not send data to PWE/Cryptic" option(s) seems to have vanished without a trace. This needs to come back, and this needs to work.
    * Not a huge fan of Tiles. There is a reason I am avoiding Windows 8 like it has pneumonia, tuberculosis, the bubonic plague, lice, and BO. That would be Tiles/Metro, if you couldn't guess.
    * Social features are a waste of screen real-estate. Option to hide/disable would be nice. (Yes, I'm more or less anti-social on the internets)
    * Overlay - Can we have an option to just disable this? I hate (Can't stress that enough) that it interferes with playing the game when you are trying to do too many things at the same time (tab-targeting and running, mostly). I would never use the overlay features anyway. I *only* use Steam's overlay in Skyrim to tab out safely.
    * I have concerns about the browser's security settings, as others have stated. I use Firefox and NoScript. I don't want to use another browser that doesn't let me change whether or not Javascript runs, preferably granularly by script source..

    I don't think that Arc is as bad as some people have made it out to be, but at the same time it needs some work.

    The New Website:
    * The Games banner is way too obtrusive. Frankly I don't care about the other games. That bar should be hidden at the top under "Games"
    * See above about "Tiles"
    * No quick link to patch notes - Patch notes and news are the only reasons I visit the site.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    My problem with it, is making it Mandatory.

    I want to use Star Trek Online through Steam, as it is now.

    I believe the options were either steam or arc. you should not be effected.
  • o0kami87o0kami87 Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    [...]
    * Overlay - Can we have an option to just disable this? I hate (Can't stress that enough) that it interferes with playing the game when you are trying to do too many things at the same time (tab-targeting and running, mostly). I would never use the overlay features
    [...]
    The New Website:
    * The Games banner is way too obtrusive. Frankly I don't care about the other games. That bar should be hidden at the top under "Games"
    * See above about "Tiles"
    * No quick link to patch notes - Patch notes and news are the only reasons I visit the site.[/...]

    agree with you on the website, one bit of advice for the overlay, you can change the trigger key in arc settings, I recommend changing it to something you wont accidently push, for me it's F2
    First, Vice Admiral, U.S.S. Wolf Pack-F, NX-101687-FFirst., Vice Admiral, A.R.W. Moon WolfWolf, I.K.S. Frost Bite
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    If I remember you can turn it off completely in the settings as well
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
    Oh Hell NO to ARC
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The licensing agreement during Arc installation: Arc is not guaranteed to be safe or even free from viruses.

    Read this whole section For those of you who believe the software is spying on you, well........it might and we agree to let it happen if it does.
    [4. Disclaimer and consents]:
    (j) You understand and agree that the Software may monitor and communicate information from your computer, including without limitation information relating to hardware capacity, modifications and the presence of unauthorized third party programs, including programs that enable or facilitate cheating or obtaining an unfair advantage of any kind, allow users to modify or hack any portion of the Software or the Service (other than as expressly authorized by PWE) *snip*

    I don't have a mobile device, but for those that do this part may concern you:
    (m) When you run our Software by or through a mobile device, we may access, collect, monitor and/or remotely store ?location data,? which may include GPS coordinates (e.g. latitude and/or longitude) or similar information regarding the location of your mobile device. Location data may convey to us information about how you browse and use the Service. Some features of the Service, particularly location-based services, may not function properly if use or availability of location data is impaired or disabled.

    [5. Indemnification.] and [6. Limitation of Liability.] I'm no legal expert, but it sounds like we are being forced to agree that no matter what happens, we can't hold any of them responsible for it.

    If you install Arc and your dog suddenly explodes and it can be scientifically proven there is a connection, you can't hold them responsible.

    If their software overheats your computer to the point the motherboard is fried and can't be fixed and you need to replace the whole computer, you can't hold them responsible.

    Since there is no guarantee their software will be free from viruses, or safe, they could intentionally add such a thing to it, and you can't hold them responsible. (I don't know what they mean by "safe" but I'm guessing it means "safe from being spied on")

    Although [6. Limitation of Liability.]
    (c) SOME STATES IN THE U.S. DO NOT ALLOW THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY, SO THEY MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU AND IN SUCH A CASE YOU AGREE THAT OUR (OR ANY SUCH OTHER RELEASED PARTIES') LIABILITY TO YOU SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW. YOU AGREE THAT WE CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR ANYTHING THAT OCCURS OR RESULTS FROM USING, ACCESSING OR SUBSCRIBING TO THE SOFTWARE OR SERVICE.
    This is confusing. First they acknowledge that some states don't allow them to forgo liability, but then turn around and say you can't hold them liable. Which is it?
    9. Governing Law; Jurisdiction. Unless expressly prohibited by local law, this Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of California, without regard to any conflict of law principles to the contrary. You hereby irrevocably consent to jurisdiction of the state and federal courts located in San Mateo County, California with respect to any proceeding regarding this Agreement or the Software. You will not prosecute any action, suit, proceeding or claim arising under or by reason of this Agreement or the Software except in such courts. The U.N. Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods or any successor thereto is expressly disclaimed and does not apply to this Agreement.
    This means that they go by only the laws of California, unless other local/state laws says they have to abide by their laws instead. It also means that if you have to sue them for any reason, you have to go all the way to a proper court in California to do so.

    Pretty standard stuff I guess.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    When installation for Arc was complete, the installshield window had checked boxes for launching Arc, having Arc run at windows startup, and to allow Arc to gather and submit data to PWE.

    The box for gathering and submitting data was checked by default and I had to uncheck it (I forgot how exactly it was worded). It was stated that we would be opted OUT automatically and would have to manually opt IN if we wanted to share data with PWE. For those who just click the Finish button once installation is complete without paying attention, you will be opted in to allow data to be collected and sent to PWE/Cryptic, or whoever.

    In the Arc browser settings, the option to opt out/in of data sharing is nowhere to be found, despite being reassured we can change this option whenever we want. The only way to opt out or in of allowing PWE/Cryptic from gathering and transmitting data from our computer to them is to completely uninstall Arc and reinstall it then check/uncheck the box in the window before clicking the Finish button.

    Here is proof the option isn't present: http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1600x1200q90/834/lciz.jpg

    Edit: Nothing in My Account settings either. For the Privacy tab all I see is 'Profile sharing, Online status, Friends list, and Receive message' options, but still nothing for opting out or in of information sharing with PWE/Cryptic.

    Edit: This is the only time you see this option. I have put a box around it in the screenshot. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1600x1200q90/30/eilw.jpg
  • vaernminavaernmina Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    When installation for Arc was complete, the installshield window had checked boxes for launching Arc, having Arc run at windows startup, and to allow Arc to gather and submit data to PWE.

    Interesting fact about ToS, any click to agree ToS that changes their terms without spelling out exactly what those changes were in a front page announcement is rendered no longer legally binding in the United States. :P

    There was a court ruling on it a couple years back.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    vaernmina wrote: »
    Interesting fact about ToS, any click to agree ToS that changes their terms without spelling out exactly what those changes were in a front page announcement is rendered no longer legally binding in the United States. :P

    There was a court ruling on it a couple years back.

    I didn't know that but it sounds like if they spell out what the changes are, they can still do whatever they want and force us to agree to it if we wish to continue using their goods and/or services.

    P.S. You responded to the wrong post of mine lol. I know it was a long read, but you could have just deleted most of it.
  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,172 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    themarie wrote: »
    Then why does it intrusively scan my hard-drives every time I use it? All four of them, all of my partitions?

    It's looking for installed PWE/Cryptic games.
  • vaernminavaernmina Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I didn't know that but it sounds like if they spell out what the changes are, they can still do whatever they want and force us to agree to it if we wish to continue using their goods and/or services.

    P.S. You responded to the wrong post of mine lol. I know it was a long read, but you could have just deleted most of it.

    True, but when was the last time any company spelled out the changes in a ToS on the front page with a big bolded "ToS Changes" telling the customer exactly what those changes were? Because according to the ruling that exact action is what is required to make the changed ToS legally binding. ;)

    And sry didn't notice that was two diffrent posts.:eek:
  • venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    (m) When you run our Software by or through a mobile device, we may access, collect, monitor and/or remotely store ?location data,? which may include GPS coordinates (e.g. latitude and/or longitude) or similar information regarding the location of your mobile device. Location data may convey to us information about how you browse and use the Service. Some features of the Service, particularly location-based services, may not function properly if use or availability of location data is impaired or disabled.
    You see... That is just creepy.

    Regardless about what follows that sentence, the idea of a 'complete stranger' spying on me is creepy.

    I think its time to change course.
  • thedoctorblueboxthedoctorbluebox Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    You see... That is just creepy.

    Regardless about what follows that sentence, the idea of a 'complete stranger' spying on me is creepy.

    I think its time to change course.

    That is highly disturbing
  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,172 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    You see... That is just creepy.

    Regardless about what follows that sentence, the idea of a 'complete stranger' spying on me is creepy.

    I think its time to change course.

    That's for their iOS/Android games, likely in case they want to add in location services at some later point, just like Weather apps will auto update your weather info, or Foursqaure will make it easier for you to "check in" or the clock will adjust to your timezone.

    The agreement is likely a generic agreement meant to cover all of their services so they don't have to maintain a bunch of different documents.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    reximuz wrote: »
    That's for their iOS/Android games, likely in case they want to add in location services at some later point, just like Weather apps will auto update your weather info, or Foursqaure will make it easier for you to "check in" or the clock will adjust to your timezone.

    The agreement is likely a generic agreement meant to cover all of their services so they don't have to maintain a bunch of different documents.

    When you put it that way, I suppose it makes sense.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    OK......In the Arc thingy when I click on 'Library', for a second the youtube video is something about how to do a Robert Deniro impression then quickly switches to the 'Season 8: The Sphere Trailer' video. The video doesn't start on its own, but I do find it strange that for a very brief moment I'm seeing something that has nothing to do with the game or anything Cryptic/PWE related.

    Edit: I can click on games/social/zen at the top left, then click back on Library and I see this video for a split second before it switches over every time.

    Using a screenshot feature of a program called Irfanview, I managed to get an image of it. Took a couple tries because I had to time it right. I put a red arrow pointing at what I'm talking about. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1600x1200q90/21/x1pa.jpg

    Disturbing to say the least. Better check your videos to see what the hell is going on.
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    You see... That is just creepy.

    Regardless about what follows that sentence, the idea of a 'complete stranger' spying on me is creepy.

    I think its time to change course.
    I will agree that could have been worded a lot more diplomatically and I have to wonder if whoever drafted that document has perhaps spent too much time in close proximity to the Chinese political apparatus. Regrettably PWE does have contractual obligations to maintain blackout zones for services with certain regions and countries even for registered users so location monitoring would have to be a part of that, mention in the TOS is part of their legal obligations.
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
    Oh Hell NO to ARC
  • mclotsodotsmclotsodots Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think what would go along way here is a post from someone explaining exactly what ARC does, and why it is being implemented so forcefully. I understand not responding to people who flame the thread and gripe with out actual concerns or grievances, however some here have had legitimate concerns. You also need to take into account that many of us have played MMOs for years, and seen programs forced on that were detrimental to our game play or our computers. When you respond to such a small selection of comments in multiple threads it makes you, as community reps, seem like you simply do not care about what the player base wants.

    I use the current version of ARC because I was unaware that there was a way around it. I played for a while at launch and left, due to real life issues, and when I came back ARC was part of the download. I was leery of it, as I have been forced to download software by other games in the past that used significant amounts or resources or bandwidth, such as Game Guard with Lineage 2, which ultimately contributed greatly to my leaving that game. I like many others here only play STO, and have no interest in other PWE?Cryptic games. I will not use the social networking aspects, nor will I use any browser other than Firefox. If you told us what exactly ARC does and how it will make our game play experience better, maybe we would all feel better about using it.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,004 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    (...) If you told us what exactly ARC does and how it will make our game play experience better, maybe we would all feel better about using it.

    At least for me that's not true. I play STO either via the original STO launcher that came with the DVD it was shipped (back in the day :D ) or via Steam. While Steam offers function I actually use, ARC is of no interest to me. If they force it upon me I will stop playing this game, simple as that. Although I doubt that they can do that because that would mean Steam would tolerate another application that even looks like a rip-off of their own software.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The more I loo at Arc its not that bad of a program for what it does and meant to do. It does use a bit of resources to load and I will say I don't use an older system and as well mines built for gaming which most of your off the shelf computers aren't built to handle mostly gaming. Anyways besides that and the issue where it asks for plugin use which is just to pull the latest news off the main website into arc and the malware thing which isn't malware its just where it scans any hard drive for a specific file for any PWE game that is installed. Which its not scanning your HD per say its just a little script probeing to detect something and then it ends which depending how you look at it its not really malware.

    After thats all done and loaded up after that it doesn't even use half the resources a web browser does and after thinking about it lot of game publishers have these type programs. So I didn't really feel the need after it all becoming clear of what exactly its doing I'm not worried about it anymore lol.
  • sandormen123sandormen123 Member Posts: 862 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The more I loo at Arc its not that bad of a program for what it does and meant to do. It does use a bit of resources to load and I will say I don't use an older system and as well mines built for gaming which most of your off the shelf computers aren't built to handle mostly gaming. Anyways besides that and the issue where it asks for plugin use which is just to pull the latest news off the main website into arc and the malware thing which isn't malware its just where it scans any hard drive for a specific file for any PWE game that is installed. Which its not scanning your HD per say its just a little script probeing to detect something and then it ends which depending how you look at it its not really malware.

    After thats all done and loaded up after that it doesn't even use half the resources a web browser does and after thinking about it lot of game publishers have these type programs. So I didn't really feel the need after it all becoming clear of what exactly its doing I'm not worried about it anymore lol.

    Ah. yeah. You are right. It is not malware, but something called bloatware. Just as annoying. I believe you are right, saying it is not a bad program, doing what it is intended to do. Now, the funny thing. I never install programs i don't use. I have no use of ARC. Why would I install bloatware on my computer... -and if it is going to mess with browser plugins and whatnot. Nothankyouverymuch. This ARC is NOT wanted by me.
    /Floozy
This discussion has been closed.