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Friendly Reminder: The vast majority of players thinks that Admiral ranks are cheesy

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  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    gonalius wrote: »
    My take on it, is that its a largely honorary rank we've been granted so that we aren't ordered around by every petty tyrant in Starfleet/The KDF, and free to act in what we perceive to be the best interests of our people. But those who genuinely need our assistance are given permission to contact us requesting our aid.

    The thing is... Captains is Star Trek routinely set course for their ship and disobey admirals and command multiple ships.

    I think the big issue I've always had has been that missions/quests get assigned from command when that's very rare on the shows.

    In general, the shows' "missions" come from colonists or crew members asking the captain to do something or go somewhere.

    If they wanted a structure more like the shows, almost none of the missions would come from actual orders. You might get bread crumbs quests as orders like "Patrol the Tau Dewa Sector" but nothing within the sector should really be orders if we're in command of our ship.

    Orders in Trek are very broad and the Captain has a HUGE amount of discretion. This is particularly true in Voyager and TOS where central command is very remote but even in TNG, they have very broad assignments that the Captain interprets liberally while the actual detailed assignments come from responses to hails. And the bulk of Sisko's orders in DS9 are "Prepare the Bajorans for entry into the Federation" and "Beat the Dominion." Otherwise, he interprets his mission pretty freely, the bulk of his missions are missions set by Sisko or requests from outside Starfleet he responds to, or Starfleet telling him NOT to do something.

    I also think this is one of those points that leads to a shortage of content or less content outside the Federation in STO.

    If missions were all set up as civilian requests made of starship captains, all factions could more or less share the same missions with different optionals. The mission actually assigned by a senior officer to a captain really ought to be more rare and more broad.

    For example:

    Starfleet assigns you to chart anomalies in Tau Dewa. So you go to Tau Dewa. The Starfleet wrapper mission would be based on charting X anomalies while the story missions would be largely issued by civilians you encounter.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Traditionally the "mission" in star trek was was exploration in uncharted sectors of space far from command and basically on their own.

    DS9 got away from that by focusing on a space station tho they left options for exploration open with the conveniently located wormhole.


    The devs didn't try to focus on exploration in this game.

    The devs did add the Genesis system and we all know how well that went. Scan 5 ancient relics from the third dynasty of the Borg.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    The devs did add the Genesis system and we all know how well that went. Scan 5 ancient relics from the third dynasty of the Borg.
    I prefer the Gorgan example. :P (yes you CAN encounter Gorgans!)

    Anyways.... I have no issue with commanding a starship as an admiral. Riker did it. :P
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • gfreeman98gfreeman98 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    All I want to know is: what happened to the Commodore rank?
    screenshot_2015-03-01-resize4.png
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I prefer the Gorgan example. :P (yes you CAN encounter Gorgans!)

    Anyways.... I have no issue with commanding a starship as an admiral. Riker did it. :P

    They could have done so much for that mission and it is just scan 5 clouds. Although, I am not sure if it is the Gorgan from TOS, another Gorgan, or another alien species that is similar to Gorgans.
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    gfreeman98 wrote: »
    All I want to know is: what happened to the Commodore rank?

    starfleet ditched it for RALH and RAUH just like the US navy if im right about the navy part
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    gfreeman98 wrote: »
    All I want to know is: what happened to the Commodore rank?

    The Commodore rank has been completely phased out of Star Trek. There are a ton of references to it in TOS and a couple of instances in TNG, but nothing since. There was no Commodores in TNG just Geordi mistaking the rank of a Romulan as Commodore instead of Centurion and some library records listing Commodore in Season 1. So it can be assumed that between TOS and TNG, the Commodore rank was no longer used.
  • kiriseekirisee Member Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    This looks like another "canon" troll post to me.....this is STO....not a TV series...get over it already....oh and btw....kirk WAS an admiral after TOS....so hmm
    "If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,317 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I think this guy lost this argument even more than the last batch of people since he claimed to be speaking for the majority.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
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  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Yep. We all know it, having player captains be of Admiral rank is silly, breaking immersion, un-Trek and stupid on many levels.

    If I could just voice one wish about STO, it would be to have my toons stay Captain (Starfleet), Captain or HoD (Klingons), or Commander/Riov (Romulans).

    Please.

    Please go back to playing with Panda Bears in ******** or better yet Star Wars. You are just another whiner that insists the game be changed to accommodate them because they don't like a tiny thing in it. What do you want next? Invincible ships with one shot weapons? How about invisible magic elves that instantly transport you to lollipop land? You are the minority that has no clue about Trek no matter the series. Oh yes in Real Life Admirals follow orders given them by their superiors not only in rank but in time of service and ultimately to the Commander in Chief. Many Admirals have and do command warships in real life. But wait you knew that right? Oh yeah by the way don't even try to argue with that I am a Cold War Navy veteran.
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    It is such an immersion breaker.

    you know what i find sooooooooooooooooooooooooo immersion break in every time i warp in to a box with in a box sorry but that biger than some little captain tex
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    How bout the fact that most of the seasons in this story that STOL has so far takes place in a YEAR.
    Going from cadet to Vice admiral in a year, yeah that's realistic.
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  • sandormen123sandormen123 Member Posts: 862 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Every time someone starts talking about breaking immersion, it breaks my immersion. Gotta go fetch a christmas beer to immerse myself into.
    /Floozy
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    gfreeman98 wrote: »
    All I want to know is: what happened to the Commodore rank?
    I was under the impression that it was just another name for Rear Admiral: Lower Half.
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  • donrahdonrah Member Posts: 348
    edited December 2013
    Ranks should be something restricted to fleets. So in your fleet you can go from Ensign to Vice Admiral if you earn it in the eyes of your fleet. In terms of the story, you're just a 1st officer who has been granted his first command by the loss of your captain (it would make more sense canon-wise as well since ranks are granted by merit, not by a point system), granting you a field promotion to captain. The rank system could be replaced with medals that indicate your progress. Earn 50 medals and you're max level. With 50 medals on your record, you'd be considered a legendary captain like Kirk or Picard.
    Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    I am certain that this bugs a great many people - and with it being such a minor thing that would not even bother the "I want to be an Admiral" players, I think it is very reasonable suggestion to add this feature. Most people win, nobody looses. Where's your problem with that?

    But being forced to be Admiral in a Star Trek game? That's a real issue for many people.

    As long as it is completely optional, it is fine, but forcing people to be Captain when they prefer to be Vice Admiral or Admiral will not have "Most people win, nobody loses." In fact, it will anger a bunch of people. The saying should be "Many people win, many people lose" since there is no way to determine who is the majority without a census. The people that want to be an Admiral want Admiral content like commanding a small fleet.

    A rank selector where we can choose which rank to use based on a bunch of appropriate titles and npcs refer to our chosen rank would go a long way.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    donrah wrote: »
    Ranks should be something restricted to fleets. So in your fleet you can go from Ensign to Vice Admiral if you earn it in the eyes of your fleet. In terms of the story, you're just a 1st officer who has been granted his first command by the loss of your captain (it would make more sense canon-wise as well since ranks are granted by merit, not by a point system), granting you a field promotion to captain. The rank system could be replaced with medals that indicate your progress. Earn 50 medals and you're max level. With 50 medals on your record, you'd be considered a legendary captain like Kirk or Picard.

    Sorry, but this won't work. People transfer fleets all the time or don't even belong to fleets. So the people that don't belong to fleets would never have a rank while people that transfer fleets would get demoted. Another problem with this is that it would created too many top-heavy fleets where everyone is at the top or near the top while nobody is at the bottom. A Captain doesn't become an Ensign because they transfer to another fleet. A Captain becomes an Ensign because they did something incredibly stupid, but not stupid enough that they get kicked out.
  • sjokruhlicasjokruhlica Member Posts: 434 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    If admiral ranks are the worst thing you have to complain about, you're doing ok.
  • kiriseekirisee Member Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Too many pages to read all of the whining.....this is STO not your canon tv series...get over it already......and btw.....kirk WAS an Admiral after what? TMP???
    "If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    They could have done so much for that mission and it is just scan 5 clouds. Although, I am not sure if it is the Gorgan from TOS, another Gorgan, or another alien species that is similar to Gorgans.
    Not according to the story. :P According to the story you're banishing the Gorgans from the planet.

    Since it's Gorgans(plural) I'm guessing different ones from the TOS ep.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    daan2006 wrote: »
    look up them thread and you will see its just the same small group that have been doing them for 4 years like T5 connie threads

    and there is that word again silly are you new to the game? one could say threads like this is silly why because this is a GAME not real i love to see you tell a admiral what they can and can not do see what happens to you

    Huh? Don't accuse ppl of making stuff up by making stuff up. I dislike the Admiral Rang outside of a fleet structure as much as I dislike the idea of a Constitution being equal to a Sovy. Or galaxy. Or even a Delta Flyer.

    Nothing personal, love that ship class and its design, but it just does not fit (like a lot of other stuff that already made it in the game but adding more bad stuff does not suddenly make all good whats bad; removing other bad stuff does).
  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    kirisee wrote: »
    Too many pages to read all of the whining.....this is STO not your canon tv series...get over it already......and btw.....kirk WAS an Admiral after what? TMP???

    And look at all the stuff he had to destroy, rules to break and getting close to make a cold war with the klingons hot till he finally got what he really want: be a captain again, travel to a time/space thingy and warn a future captain of the Enterprise how much being an Admiral sucks. With his dying words!
  • breygornbreygorn Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    If we are Admirals...
    Where is our desk? office? And the mounds of paper work missions?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Huh? Don't accuse ppl of making stuff up by making stuff up. I dislike the Admiral Rang outside of a fleet structure as much as I dislike the idea of a Constitution being equal to a Sovy. Or galaxy. Or even a Delta Flyer.

    Nothing personal, love that ship class and its design, but it just does not fit (like a lot of other stuff that already made it in the game but adding more bad stuff does not suddenly make all good whats bad; removing other bad stuff does).

    well thats your opinion i loved Admiral Ross as much as you dislike it its fact it happen and others to nothing you can say or do will ever change it want to change it then become the IP holder good luck with that though ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    And look at all the stuff he had to destroy, rules to break and getting close to make a cold war with the klingons hot till he finally got what he really want: be a captain again, travel to a time/space thingy and warn a future captain of the Enterprise how much being an Admiral sucks. With his dying words!

    you say all that and i think back to the TV show and see the same thing when he was a captain
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • donrahdonrah Member Posts: 348
    edited December 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    Sorry, but this won't work. People transfer fleets all the time or don't even belong to fleets. So the people that don't belong to fleets would never have a rank while people that transfer fleets would get demoted. Another problem with this is that it would created too many top-heavy fleets where everyone is at the top or near the top while nobody is at the bottom. A Captain doesn't become an Ensign because they transfer to another fleet. A Captain becomes an Ensign because they did something incredibly stupid, but not stupid enough that they get kicked out.

    It would work just fine. You earn the rank by merit. If you transfer to another fleet you haven't earned a higher rank in that fleet. If you're given the rank of Captain by your current fleet and then transfer to a new fleet, why should you keep it? What does it matter anyway? The ranks are just a cheap way to dress up a weak level system. You didn't earn that rank of Vice Admiral, ranks are earned by merit, not how many points you scored. Real ranks are what your fleet grants you for your contributions to the goals of the fleet. People that do a stand-out job earn promotions. That's how it should work. For the purposes of the story, you should be a captain as soon as you're assigned a ship to command. Your rank would be captain. I'm a member of a fleet right now that is composed of a group of fleets. We jump from fleet to fleet all the time to contribute marks to the smaller fleets and then jump back. Our ranks are restored by the leadership after we return. Easy-peasy, lemon squeezy.

    In truth, using any ranks at all in this game is meaningless. Ranks are used to establish a hierarchy to distribute responsibilities and privilege based on merit and experience among members of a group. STO does not play that way. You are a single person performing all operations of a ship alone. If ships required a crew of human players to manage, then ranks would mean something.
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  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    and i would very much like us to have to go to starfleet academy for years and years and even before you get a starship you will have to work your way up to a starship if you pass the command test i mean how it was done in the TV show sorry ships just was not handed to you like they are in the game also we would be assigned to a ship not you pick it i mean how it was in the show so as to how it should be in the game also let me add think its time starfleet move back to one uniform to rule them all its how it was in the show so as to how it should be in the game

    still want rank to be captain get my rank change and i promise you this I will make a campaign to make all these changes come to be
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
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