My take on it, is that its a largely honorary rank we've been granted so that we aren't ordered around by every petty tyrant in Starfleet/The KDF, and free to act in what we perceive to be the best interests of our people. But those who genuinely need our assistance are given permission to contact us requesting our aid.
The thing is... Captains is Star Trek routinely set course for their ship and disobey admirals and command multiple ships.
I think the big issue I've always had has been that missions/quests get assigned from command when that's very rare on the shows.
In general, the shows' "missions" come from colonists or crew members asking the captain to do something or go somewhere.
If they wanted a structure more like the shows, almost none of the missions would come from actual orders. You might get bread crumbs quests as orders like "Patrol the Tau Dewa Sector" but nothing within the sector should really be orders if we're in command of our ship.
Orders in Trek are very broad and the Captain has a HUGE amount of discretion. This is particularly true in Voyager and TOS where central command is very remote but even in TNG, they have very broad assignments that the Captain interprets liberally while the actual detailed assignments come from responses to hails. And the bulk of Sisko's orders in DS9 are "Prepare the Bajorans for entry into the Federation" and "Beat the Dominion." Otherwise, he interprets his mission pretty freely, the bulk of his missions are missions set by Sisko or requests from outside Starfleet he responds to, or Starfleet telling him NOT to do something.
I also think this is one of those points that leads to a shortage of content or less content outside the Federation in STO.
If missions were all set up as civilian requests made of starship captains, all factions could more or less share the same missions with different optionals. The mission actually assigned by a senior officer to a captain really ought to be more rare and more broad.
For example:
Starfleet assigns you to chart anomalies in Tau Dewa. So you go to Tau Dewa. The Starfleet wrapper mission would be based on charting X anomalies while the story missions would be largely issued by civilians you encounter.
I prefer the Gorgan example. :P (yes you CAN encounter Gorgans!)
Anyways.... I have no issue with commanding a starship as an admiral. Riker did it. :P
They could have done so much for that mission and it is just scan 5 clouds. Although, I am not sure if it is the Gorgan from TOS, another Gorgan, or another alien species that is similar to Gorgans.
All I want to know is: what happened to the Commodore rank?
The Commodore rank has been completely phased out of Star Trek. There are a ton of references to it in TOS and a couple of instances in TNG, but nothing since. There was no Commodores in TNG just Geordi mistaking the rank of a Romulan as Commodore instead of Centurion and some library records listing Commodore in Season 1. So it can be assumed that between TOS and TNG, the Commodore rank was no longer used.
This looks like another "canon" troll post to me.....this is STO....not a TV series...get over it already....oh and btw....kirk WAS an admiral after TOS....so hmm
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Yep. We all know it, having player captains be of Admiral rank is silly, breaking immersion, un-Trek and stupid on many levels.
If I could just voice one wish about STO, it would be to have my toons stay Captain (Starfleet), Captain or HoD (Klingons), or Commander/Riov (Romulans).
Please.
Please go back to playing with Panda Bears in ******** or better yet Star Wars. You are just another whiner that insists the game be changed to accommodate them because they don't like a tiny thing in it. What do you want next? Invincible ships with one shot weapons? How about invisible magic elves that instantly transport you to lollipop land? You are the minority that has no clue about Trek no matter the series. Oh yes in Real Life Admirals follow orders given them by their superiors not only in rank but in time of service and ultimately to the Commander in Chief. Many Admirals have and do command warships in real life. But wait you knew that right? Oh yeah by the way don't even try to argue with that I am a Cold War Navy veteran.
you know what i find sooooooooooooooooooooooooo immersion break in every time i warp in to a box with in a box sorry but that biger than some little captain tex
How bout the fact that most of the seasons in this story that STOL has so far takes place in a YEAR.
Going from cadet to Vice admiral in a year, yeah that's realistic.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Ranks should be something restricted to fleets. So in your fleet you can go from Ensign to Vice Admiral if you earn it in the eyes of your fleet. In terms of the story, you're just a 1st officer who has been granted his first command by the loss of your captain (it would make more sense canon-wise as well since ranks are granted by merit, not by a point system), granting you a field promotion to captain. The rank system could be replaced with medals that indicate your progress. Earn 50 medals and you're max level. With 50 medals on your record, you'd be considered a legendary captain like Kirk or Picard.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
I am certain that this bugs a great many people - and with it being such a minor thing that would not even bother the "I want to be an Admiral" players, I think it is very reasonable suggestion to add this feature. Most people win, nobody looses. Where's your problem with that?
But being forced to be Admiral in a Star Trek game? That's a real issue for many people.
As long as it is completely optional, it is fine, but forcing people to be Captain when they prefer to be Vice Admiral or Admiral will not have "Most people win, nobody loses." In fact, it will anger a bunch of people. The saying should be "Many people win, many people lose" since there is no way to determine who is the majority without a census. The people that want to be an Admiral want Admiral content like commanding a small fleet.
A rank selector where we can choose which rank to use based on a bunch of appropriate titles and npcs refer to our chosen rank would go a long way.
Ranks should be something restricted to fleets. So in your fleet you can go from Ensign to Vice Admiral if you earn it in the eyes of your fleet. In terms of the story, you're just a 1st officer who has been granted his first command by the loss of your captain (it would make more sense canon-wise as well since ranks are granted by merit, not by a point system), granting you a field promotion to captain. The rank system could be replaced with medals that indicate your progress. Earn 50 medals and you're max level. With 50 medals on your record, you'd be considered a legendary captain like Kirk or Picard.
Sorry, but this won't work. People transfer fleets all the time or don't even belong to fleets. So the people that don't belong to fleets would never have a rank while people that transfer fleets would get demoted. Another problem with this is that it would created too many top-heavy fleets where everyone is at the top or near the top while nobody is at the bottom. A Captain doesn't become an Ensign because they transfer to another fleet. A Captain becomes an Ensign because they did something incredibly stupid, but not stupid enough that they get kicked out.
Too many pages to read all of the whining.....this is STO not your canon tv series...get over it already......and btw.....kirk WAS an Admiral after what? TMP???
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
They could have done so much for that mission and it is just scan 5 clouds. Although, I am not sure if it is the Gorgan from TOS, another Gorgan, or another alien species that is similar to Gorgans.
Not according to the story. :P According to the story you're banishing the Gorgans from the planet.
Since it's Gorgans(plural) I'm guessing different ones from the TOS ep.
look up them thread and you will see its just the same small group that have been doing them for 4 years like T5 connie threads
and there is that word again silly are you new to the game? one could say threads like this is silly why because this is a GAME not real i love to see you tell a admiral what they can and can not do see what happens to you
Huh? Don't accuse ppl of making stuff up by making stuff up. I dislike the Admiral Rang outside of a fleet structure as much as I dislike the idea of a Constitution being equal to a Sovy. Or galaxy. Or even a Delta Flyer.
Nothing personal, love that ship class and its design, but it just does not fit (like a lot of other stuff that already made it in the game but adding more bad stuff does not suddenly make all good whats bad; removing other bad stuff does).
Too many pages to read all of the whining.....this is STO not your canon tv series...get over it already......and btw.....kirk WAS an Admiral after what? TMP???
And look at all the stuff he had to destroy, rules to break and getting close to make a cold war with the klingons hot till he finally got what he really want: be a captain again, travel to a time/space thingy and warn a future captain of the Enterprise how much being an Admiral sucks. With his dying words!
Huh? Don't accuse ppl of making stuff up by making stuff up. I dislike the Admiral Rang outside of a fleet structure as much as I dislike the idea of a Constitution being equal to a Sovy. Or galaxy. Or even a Delta Flyer.
Nothing personal, love that ship class and its design, but it just does not fit (like a lot of other stuff that already made it in the game but adding more bad stuff does not suddenly make all good whats bad; removing other bad stuff does).
well thats your opinion i loved Admiral Ross as much as you dislike it its fact it happen and others to nothing you can say or do will ever change it want to change it then become the IP holder good luck with that though
And look at all the stuff he had to destroy, rules to break and getting close to make a cold war with the klingons hot till he finally got what he really want: be a captain again, travel to a time/space thingy and warn a future captain of the Enterprise how much being an Admiral sucks. With his dying words!
you say all that and i think back to the TV show and see the same thing when he was a captain
Sorry, but this won't work. People transfer fleets all the time or don't even belong to fleets. So the people that don't belong to fleets would never have a rank while people that transfer fleets would get demoted. Another problem with this is that it would created too many top-heavy fleets where everyone is at the top or near the top while nobody is at the bottom. A Captain doesn't become an Ensign because they transfer to another fleet. A Captain becomes an Ensign because they did something incredibly stupid, but not stupid enough that they get kicked out.
It would work just fine. You earn the rank by merit. If you transfer to another fleet you haven't earned a higher rank in that fleet. If you're given the rank of Captain by your current fleet and then transfer to a new fleet, why should you keep it? What does it matter anyway? The ranks are just a cheap way to dress up a weak level system. You didn't earn that rank of Vice Admiral, ranks are earned by merit, not how many points you scored. Real ranks are what your fleet grants you for your contributions to the goals of the fleet. People that do a stand-out job earn promotions. That's how it should work. For the purposes of the story, you should be a captain as soon as you're assigned a ship to command. Your rank would be captain. I'm a member of a fleet right now that is composed of a group of fleets. We jump from fleet to fleet all the time to contribute marks to the smaller fleets and then jump back. Our ranks are restored by the leadership after we return. Easy-peasy, lemon squeezy.
In truth, using any ranks at all in this game is meaningless. Ranks are used to establish a hierarchy to distribute responsibilities and privilege based on merit and experience among members of a group. STO does not play that way. You are a single person performing all operations of a ship alone. If ships required a crew of human players to manage, then ranks would mean something.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
and i would very much like us to have to go to starfleet academy for years and years and even before you get a starship you will have to work your way up to a starship if you pass the command test i mean how it was done in the TV show sorry ships just was not handed to you like they are in the game also we would be assigned to a ship not you pick it i mean how it was in the show so as to how it should be in the game also let me add think its time starfleet move back to one uniform to rule them all its how it was in the show so as to how it should be in the game
still want rank to be captain get my rank change and i promise you this I will make a campaign to make all these changes come to be
Comments
The thing is... Captains is Star Trek routinely set course for their ship and disobey admirals and command multiple ships.
I think the big issue I've always had has been that missions/quests get assigned from command when that's very rare on the shows.
In general, the shows' "missions" come from colonists or crew members asking the captain to do something or go somewhere.
If they wanted a structure more like the shows, almost none of the missions would come from actual orders. You might get bread crumbs quests as orders like "Patrol the Tau Dewa Sector" but nothing within the sector should really be orders if we're in command of our ship.
Orders in Trek are very broad and the Captain has a HUGE amount of discretion. This is particularly true in Voyager and TOS where central command is very remote but even in TNG, they have very broad assignments that the Captain interprets liberally while the actual detailed assignments come from responses to hails. And the bulk of Sisko's orders in DS9 are "Prepare the Bajorans for entry into the Federation" and "Beat the Dominion." Otherwise, he interprets his mission pretty freely, the bulk of his missions are missions set by Sisko or requests from outside Starfleet he responds to, or Starfleet telling him NOT to do something.
I also think this is one of those points that leads to a shortage of content or less content outside the Federation in STO.
If missions were all set up as civilian requests made of starship captains, all factions could more or less share the same missions with different optionals. The mission actually assigned by a senior officer to a captain really ought to be more rare and more broad.
For example:
Starfleet assigns you to chart anomalies in Tau Dewa. So you go to Tau Dewa. The Starfleet wrapper mission would be based on charting X anomalies while the story missions would be largely issued by civilians you encounter.
The devs did add the Genesis system and we all know how well that went. Scan 5 ancient relics from the third dynasty of the Borg.
Anyways.... I have no issue with commanding a starship as an admiral. Riker did it. :P
My character Tsin'xing
They could have done so much for that mission and it is just scan 5 clouds. Although, I am not sure if it is the Gorgan from TOS, another Gorgan, or another alien species that is similar to Gorgans.
starfleet ditched it for RALH and RAUH just like the US navy if im right about the navy part
system Lord Baal is dead
The Commodore rank has been completely phased out of Star Trek. There are a ton of references to it in TOS and a couple of instances in TNG, but nothing since. There was no Commodores in TNG just Geordi mistaking the rank of a Romulan as Commodore instead of Centurion and some library records listing Commodore in Season 1. So it can be assumed that between TOS and TNG, the Commodore rank was no longer used.
Please go back to playing with Panda Bears in ******** or better yet Star Wars. You are just another whiner that insists the game be changed to accommodate them because they don't like a tiny thing in it. What do you want next? Invincible ships with one shot weapons? How about invisible magic elves that instantly transport you to lollipop land? You are the minority that has no clue about Trek no matter the series. Oh yes in Real Life Admirals follow orders given them by their superiors not only in rank but in time of service and ultimately to the Commander in Chief. Many Admirals have and do command warships in real life. But wait you knew that right? Oh yeah by the way don't even try to argue with that I am a Cold War Navy veteran.
you know what i find sooooooooooooooooooooooooo immersion break in every time i warp in to a box with in a box sorry but that biger than some little captain tex
system Lord Baal is dead
Going from cadet to Vice admiral in a year, yeah that's realistic.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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As long as it is completely optional, it is fine, but forcing people to be Captain when they prefer to be Vice Admiral or Admiral will not have "Most people win, nobody loses." In fact, it will anger a bunch of people. The saying should be "Many people win, many people lose" since there is no way to determine who is the majority without a census. The people that want to be an Admiral want Admiral content like commanding a small fleet.
A rank selector where we can choose which rank to use based on a bunch of appropriate titles and npcs refer to our chosen rank would go a long way.
Sorry, but this won't work. People transfer fleets all the time or don't even belong to fleets. So the people that don't belong to fleets would never have a rank while people that transfer fleets would get demoted. Another problem with this is that it would created too many top-heavy fleets where everyone is at the top or near the top while nobody is at the bottom. A Captain doesn't become an Ensign because they transfer to another fleet. A Captain becomes an Ensign because they did something incredibly stupid, but not stupid enough that they get kicked out.
Since it's Gorgans(plural) I'm guessing different ones from the TOS ep.
My character Tsin'xing
Huh? Don't accuse ppl of making stuff up by making stuff up. I dislike the Admiral Rang outside of a fleet structure as much as I dislike the idea of a Constitution being equal to a Sovy. Or galaxy. Or even a Delta Flyer.
Nothing personal, love that ship class and its design, but it just does not fit (like a lot of other stuff that already made it in the game but adding more bad stuff does not suddenly make all good whats bad; removing other bad stuff does).
And look at all the stuff he had to destroy, rules to break and getting close to make a cold war with the klingons hot till he finally got what he really want: be a captain again, travel to a time/space thingy and warn a future captain of the Enterprise how much being an Admiral sucks. With his dying words!
Where is our desk? office? And the mounds of paper work missions?
well thats your opinion i loved Admiral Ross as much as you dislike it its fact it happen and others to nothing you can say or do will ever change it want to change it then become the IP holder good luck with that though
system Lord Baal is dead
you say all that and i think back to the TV show and see the same thing when he was a captain
system Lord Baal is dead
It would work just fine. You earn the rank by merit. If you transfer to another fleet you haven't earned a higher rank in that fleet. If you're given the rank of Captain by your current fleet and then transfer to a new fleet, why should you keep it? What does it matter anyway? The ranks are just a cheap way to dress up a weak level system. You didn't earn that rank of Vice Admiral, ranks are earned by merit, not how many points you scored. Real ranks are what your fleet grants you for your contributions to the goals of the fleet. People that do a stand-out job earn promotions. That's how it should work. For the purposes of the story, you should be a captain as soon as you're assigned a ship to command. Your rank would be captain. I'm a member of a fleet right now that is composed of a group of fleets. We jump from fleet to fleet all the time to contribute marks to the smaller fleets and then jump back. Our ranks are restored by the leadership after we return. Easy-peasy, lemon squeezy.
In truth, using any ranks at all in this game is meaningless. Ranks are used to establish a hierarchy to distribute responsibilities and privilege based on merit and experience among members of a group. STO does not play that way. You are a single person performing all operations of a ship alone. If ships required a crew of human players to manage, then ranks would mean something.
still want rank to be captain get my rank change and i promise you this I will make a campaign to make all these changes come to be
system Lord Baal is dead