Looking at your avatar et all isn't it kind of obvious?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
well he wants to be a captain so what i meant was i like to see a captain tell a admiral what they can and cannot do without D good reason i also do mean real life to
I always took it to be a sign of how understaffed Starfleet is. You have a war on, a massive relief operation, the pirates going crazy, the usual weirdness like the Devidians and Q, a push from the civilian leadership to continue exploration, and of course you're still responsible for diplomatic efforts. Oh, and the Undine. And now the Borg are back!
The construction workers are able to build more ships than the enemies can destroy, but its harder to get good officers. So one Admiral stays on the bridge. Then another, then another... And eventually its just common forVice Admiral and below to be battlefield positions. They could have just not promoted, but instead they changed the job description. And they still don't have enough commanders for all the work they have, so in 2409 they just start leaving the senior surviving officer in charge after disasters.
That this is all happening in one year is silly, but I read DC comics during the 90s and 00s so I have a high tolerance for the elastic timeline. (If Kyle was the only Green Lantern for just a year I'll believe any timeline you give me,)
well he wants to be a captain so what i meant was i like to see a captain tell a admiral what they can and cannot do without D good reason i also do mean real life to
That comes with the rank and responsibility creep. Vice Admirals are ship commanders, not fleet commanders. The commander of a station or a particular operation derives his power not from his rank, but his position. As the duly appointed representative of Starfleet Command in the Beta Ursae sector block, Kurland can give missions. Not on his authority as a Captain, but his authority as DS9 CO.
He's probably a lot nicer to you than an Ensign, but he has the authority to do this.
That comes with the rank and responsibility creep. Vice Admirals are ship commanders, not fleet commanders. The commander of a station or a particular operation derives his power not from his rank, but his position. As the duly appointed representative of Starfleet Command in the Beta Ursae sector block, Kurland can give missions. Not on his authority as a Captain, but his authority as DS9 CO.
He's probably a lot nicer to you than an Ensign, but he has the authority to do this.
There is actually an immediate real life example I can think of on the spot.
Air wings on aircraft carriers. The CO of the airwing might be a colonel in say the Air Force, but that Naval Captain is the boss of that ship, period.
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I like to point out it cannon for Klingon Empire Generals to command ships, such as General Martok and General Chang.
And even in the Federation it wasn't completely unknown. I believe Admiral Rossi had his own ship.
I'd like to note also anyone who commands a ship is a Captain irreguardless of Military rank or lack there of.
So as an Admiral your still Captain of your ship, just as you could be a Captain and assigned to Starfleet Academy or some other shipless assignment.
And in practical term Admirals would need star ships to function and administer things in space. This isn't an earth based institution, area to be administer is massive and to get things done an Admiral would need mobility and ideally a mobile base of operations which a star ship provides.
When Kirk was talking about don't let them promote you, he was talking about posting, not rank, don't let them "promote you" to Starfleet Command, being posted to a ship is the posting you want. Doesn't matter if your an ensign or an Admiral as long as your posted to ship command, along with other possible duties like commanding a Fleet.
I like to point out it cannon for Klingon Empire Generals to command ships, such as General Martok and General Chang.
And even in the Federation it wasn't completely unknown. I believe Admiral Rossi had his own ship.
I'd like to note also anyone who commands a ship is a Captain irreguardless of Military rank or lack there of.
So as an Admiral your still Captain of your ship, just as you could be a Captain and assigned to Starfleet Academy or some other shipless assignment.
And in practical term Admirals would need star ships to function and administer things in space. This isn't an earth based institution, area to be administer is massive and to get things done an Admiral would need mobility and ideally a mobile base of operations which a star ship provides.
When Kirk was talking about don't let them promote you, he was talking about posting, not rank, don't let them "promote you" to Starfleet Command, being posted to a ship is the posting you want. Doesn't matter if your an ensign or an Admiral as long as your posted to ship command, along with other possible duties like commanding a Fleet.
i would have not thought of this unless i was watching DS9 now or like you did pointed it out about the KDF but Admiral Ross i new about him and a lot do forget that i think there is also if you count it Admiral William T. Riker commanded the Enterprise-D as his flagship explaining that "they tried to ... One of the advantages of being an Admiral is you choose your own ship." then you have the admirals at both borg engagement
Reality check: The vast majority of players don't care what rank they are so long as it is the highest available.
Most people just do not care about these details as much as you and other forum goers do. They just don't. Most people log in, play, log out. Most people put in far less time then we do as well.
If you are posting on the forums at all, you are in a minority.
As full of outrage as you may be, don't assume that anybody else cares. The raw truth is the majority of people do not take this game anywhere near as seriously as we do.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Friendly Reminder: The vast majority of players couldn't care less what the NPCs call them in the textboxes they skip through without reading. :rolleyes:
The words "Vice Admiral" are just thematically a appropriate code for "Level Cap Reached."
They'll have to come see me in my ready room, because I outrank them and they aren't in charge of any large scale operations I'm involved in.
(Besides, I never said Vice Admirals were the ONLY ship commanders.)
As Picard pointed out, when an Admiral is aboard a starship, the Captain is in charge, altho if they disobey the Admiral they could be in for some serous trouble if they were in the wrong...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Well, we can rationalize the silliness any way we see fit, but if Vice Admirals command ships, wouldn't it be the most logical of all steps to have the flagship (term used in the Star Trek sense here) be commanded by one, too?
Why not just change the little text string, optionally, for those who want it? Four hours of coding work (if that much), happiness everywhere!
Yeah, that would be logical. But not even the Vulcans are always logical when it comes to traditions, as we saw in Amok Time. And I get a kick out of outranking the Enterprise Captain.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Captain as the lvl cap, but they'd have to change the entire level structure and that is probably more complex than it sounds. Its just not important enough a nitpick to deal with when it can be written off as a cultural shift.
My point is that "flagship" in the Star Trek sense does not mean the ship with an admiral's flag on it. The Enterprise-D was the Federation's "flagship" during most of TNG, but Admirals we saw rather rarely onboard this vessel. The three flagships of the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Republic and the Federation in STO are not flagships in the "Admiral command ship" sense, but in the Star Trek sense, meaning something more like "most distinguished ship in the fleet". Which makes sense, given that it is a Star Trek game.
admiral riker love to have a word with you unless you are trying to say by him stoping the decommission of the ENT-D some how stays the flag ship just because it the ENT ya dont hold much with me admiral ross both admiral from both Borg engagement love to have a word with you
again i suggest when you see admiral General you picture in your head the word captain its not that hard
Things are always more complex than they seem to be. Yet things are doable. Remember when we had to re-enter our password every time we wanted to play another character? It was complex to change that, too - yet the dev team pulled it off.
and how many years did it take them to pull that off? been here from Jan of 2010 so you want full me
My take on it, is that its a largely honorary rank we've been granted so that we aren't ordered around by every petty tyrant in Starfleet/The KDF, and free to act in what we perceive to be the best interests of our people. But those who genuinely need our assistance are given permission to contact us requesting our aid.
But it isn't a cultural shift. See the three flagships - the most distinguished vessels of their fleets, yet all commanded by a proper Star Trek commanding officer rank.
Cultural shifts don't happen all at once. They slowly.. shift. We saw why Captain Shon got the Enterprise. He had a distinguished wartime career and most importantly happened to be an experienced commander in need of a ship at the exact time they were ready to launch the Enterprise-F. If he were to be promoted to Admiral, odds are that he'd stay in charge of that ship rather than move to a desk because the culture has been shifting to keep commanders in charge of ships as they promote. (A little odd he didn't get promoted to Rear Admiral when he got the new ship, but he's pretty clearly not as good at diplomacy and politics as the player character is.)
I don't know how Koren and Tiaru got promoted. Most likely they came into it in a normal career progression too, and would stay in charge if promoted like KDF and RR officers stay in charge of their ships once promoted.
And that's without taking into account that the player character is officially put in command of a ship at the rank of Lieutenant. So yeah, there's gonna be quite a few Captains still flying ships. The responsibility creep has been outward, not just upward.
I'm sure they could make it work. It might make Capt. Kurland disappear for a week while they try, but I'm sure they can make it work. Is it really WORTH them changing it, though? There's a lot in the game I'd rather the devs focus on.
I will say, I used to just use the Captain title on my toon and Captain's rank until I played Sphere of Influence. That episode is nicely set up for an Admiral who commands a ship. The only person you defer to is the full Ambassador, and you have two Captains and several other lower ranking people listening to your orders. And when you do get to the space part, it makes sense to put you in charge instead of the Ambassador since you're currently an active commander and Worf has been sitting outside the Great Hall a few years. After playing that, I got used to thinking of her as an Admiral and when I got used to that I got a lot more comfortable with all the Admirals running around the Dyson Sphere. (Tagging the bunnies is just weird, but I think D'Tan may have some sort of latent telepathic control power to talk us into all of this.)
It was, however, really weird to play at any character below Admiral, but that was just a special thing.
My take on it, is that its a largely honorary rank we've been granted so that we aren't ordered around by every petty tyrant in Starfleet/The KDF, and free to act in what we perceive to be the best interests of our people. But those who genuinely need our assistance are given permission to contact us requesting our aid.
Only that every little peons orders us around like he or she pleases. It doesn't help that our characters are portrayed as total and incompetent dumbasses who have to be told by somebody else to not touch the leaking plasma vent or we'll get ouchy
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"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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it happens every mission lol
free jkname
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uh.... wut?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Looking at your avatar et all isn't it kind of obvious?
well he wants to be a captain so what i meant was i like to see a captain tell a admiral what they can and cannot do without D good reason i also do mean real life to
system Lord Baal is dead
The construction workers are able to build more ships than the enemies can destroy, but its harder to get good officers. So one Admiral stays on the bridge. Then another, then another... And eventually its just common forVice Admiral and below to be battlefield positions. They could have just not promoted, but instead they changed the job description. And they still don't have enough commanders for all the work they have, so in 2409 they just start leaving the senior surviving officer in charge after disasters.
That this is all happening in one year is silly, but I read DC comics during the 90s and 00s so I have a high tolerance for the elastic timeline. (If Kyle was the only Green Lantern for just a year I'll believe any timeline you give me,)
That comes with the rank and responsibility creep. Vice Admirals are ship commanders, not fleet commanders. The commander of a station or a particular operation derives his power not from his rank, but his position. As the duly appointed representative of Starfleet Command in the Beta Ursae sector block, Kurland can give missions. Not on his authority as a Captain, but his authority as DS9 CO.
He's probably a lot nicer to you than an Ensign, but he has the authority to do this.
There is actually an immediate real life example I can think of on the spot.
Air wings on aircraft carriers. The CO of the airwing might be a colonel in say the Air Force, but that Naval Captain is the boss of that ship, period.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
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And even in the Federation it wasn't completely unknown. I believe Admiral Rossi had his own ship.
I'd like to note also anyone who commands a ship is a Captain irreguardless of Military rank or lack there of.
So as an Admiral your still Captain of your ship, just as you could be a Captain and assigned to Starfleet Academy or some other shipless assignment.
And in practical term Admirals would need star ships to function and administer things in space. This isn't an earth based institution, area to be administer is massive and to get things done an Admiral would need mobility and ideally a mobile base of operations which a star ship provides.
When Kirk was talking about don't let them promote you, he was talking about posting, not rank, don't let them "promote you" to Starfleet Command, being posted to a ship is the posting you want. Doesn't matter if your an ensign or an Admiral as long as your posted to ship command, along with other possible duties like commanding a Fleet.
i would have not thought of this unless i was watching DS9 now or like you did pointed it out about the KDF but Admiral Ross i new about him and a lot do forget that i think there is also if you count it Admiral William T. Riker commanded the Enterprise-D as his flagship explaining that "they tried to ... One of the advantages of being an Admiral is you choose your own ship." then you have the admirals at both borg engagement
system Lord Baal is dead
Most people just do not care about these details as much as you and other forum goers do. They just don't. Most people log in, play, log out. Most people put in far less time then we do as well.
If you are posting on the forums at all, you are in a minority.
As full of outrage as you may be, don't assume that anybody else cares. The raw truth is the majority of people do not take this game anywhere near as seriously as we do.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The words "Vice Admiral" are just thematically a appropriate code for "Level Cap Reached."
They'll have to come see me in my ready room, because I outrank them and they aren't in charge of any large scale operations I'm involved in.
(Besides, I never said Vice Admirals were the ONLY ship commanders.)
As Picard pointed out, when an Admiral is aboard a starship, the Captain is in charge, altho if they disobey the Admiral they could be in for some serous trouble if they were in the wrong...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
system Lord Baal is dead
yes every movie sadly counting JJ trek to every TV show and you point ?
system Lord Baal is dead
Yeah, that would be logical. But not even the Vulcans are always logical when it comes to traditions, as we saw in Amok Time. And I get a kick out of outranking the Enterprise Captain.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Captain as the lvl cap, but they'd have to change the entire level structure and that is probably more complex than it sounds. Its just not important enough a nitpick to deal with when it can be written off as a cultural shift.
admiral riker love to have a word with you
again i suggest when you see admiral General you picture in your head the word captain its not that hard
system Lord Baal is dead
and how many years did it take them to pull that off? been here from Jan of 2010 so you want full me
system Lord Baal is dead
I'll take that one step further.
"Cadet, Go to Deep Space Nine and pick up your 5 crew members(not automated DOFF or automated Bridge Officers). Don't get anyone killed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72XhdVqDT1g
Cultural shifts don't happen all at once. They slowly.. shift. We saw why Captain Shon got the Enterprise. He had a distinguished wartime career and most importantly happened to be an experienced commander in need of a ship at the exact time they were ready to launch the Enterprise-F. If he were to be promoted to Admiral, odds are that he'd stay in charge of that ship rather than move to a desk because the culture has been shifting to keep commanders in charge of ships as they promote. (A little odd he didn't get promoted to Rear Admiral when he got the new ship, but he's pretty clearly not as good at diplomacy and politics as the player character is.)
I don't know how Koren and Tiaru got promoted. Most likely they came into it in a normal career progression too, and would stay in charge if promoted like KDF and RR officers stay in charge of their ships once promoted.
And that's without taking into account that the player character is officially put in command of a ship at the rank of Lieutenant. So yeah, there's gonna be quite a few Captains still flying ships. The responsibility creep has been outward, not just upward.
I'm sure they could make it work. It might make Capt. Kurland disappear for a week while they try, but I'm sure they can make it work. Is it really WORTH them changing it, though? There's a lot in the game I'd rather the devs focus on.
I will say, I used to just use the Captain title on my toon and Captain's rank until I played Sphere of Influence. That episode is nicely set up for an Admiral who commands a ship. The only person you defer to is the full Ambassador, and you have two Captains and several other lower ranking people listening to your orders. And when you do get to the space part, it makes sense to put you in charge instead of the Ambassador since you're currently an active commander and Worf has been sitting outside the Great Hall a few years. After playing that, I got used to thinking of her as an Admiral and when I got used to that I got a lot more comfortable with all the Admirals running around the Dyson Sphere. (Tagging the bunnies is just weird, but I think D'Tan may have some sort of latent telepathic control power to talk us into all of this.)
It was, however, really weird to play at any character below Admiral, but that was just a special thing.
Only that every little peons orders us around like he or she pleases. It doesn't help that our characters are portrayed as total and incompetent dumbasses who have to be told by somebody else to not touch the leaking plasma vent or we'll get ouchy
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