I'm pretty sure sticking one's head in a toilet and flushing it offers a unique experience that PvE simply isn't capable of as well. If that's the best you got... -shrug-
Everything in the "hardcore" PVPer's bubble universe is awesome and necessary to this game and is the source of all good things in it. You just gotta be in the bubble to see that.
I'm the Seth Macfarlane of the forums, I take other peoples jokes and just post them, because that's what I do, I don't hide it, nor am i trying to.
Approval neither desired nor required.:D
So you're wearing the "I am immune to everything because of self-referential irony and can float like a pixie from relevance to irrelevance and you can't touch me" button. Got it.
And you accuse others of being insulting... nice...
PVE can do all the things you are pretending are only the realm of PVP.[/QUOTE]
PVE can produce a pvp-like experience but the servers can't handle it but if you refuse to see that making two groups happy at the same time is a good thing and arguably better than making only one group of players happy, that's your problem, not mine
Everything in the "hardcore" PVEer's bubble universe is awesome and necessary to this game and is the source of all good things in it. You just gotta be in the bubble to see that.
Even if moderate upgrades could be worked in without disrupting the rest of the game or forcing PVE equipment/power changes based upon PVP nitpicking, the "Life force of modern gaming" thing is laughably pretentious. And incorrect.
Every method for gaming is dominated by PVP focused games excluding mobile. You can call me pretentious but FPS are dominating the console market and MOBA's dominate streaming services, YouTube views and PC gaming. Look at some sales figures and try to tell me otherwise.
If you don't like PVP balance that's tough. PVE content is a joke and you're bad at the game if you need a couple of extra numbers here and there.
And you accuse others of being insulting... nice...
PVE can do all the things you are pretending are only the realm of PVP.
If you scroll back, I didn't bother even mentioning the insulting going around (give and take and self evident) until some of the PVP advocates here decided to play the victim card a few pages back and whine about PVEers insulting them and being meanyheads.
The game's been chugging along, more or less, and it's entertaining enough to keep going, without having to drastically pander to a small, very vocal, self-absorbed, self-aggrandizing "YOU NEED US!" group of elitists. "WE MAKE ALL YOUR CONTENT AND BALANCE YOU NEED US" in one breath, then smack talk and "if you dont like premade stomps join a premade" dismissive TRIBBLE in the next.
It's no wonder so few care about PVP in the actual game.
Every method for gaming is dominated by PVP focused games excluding mobile. You can call me pretentious but FPS are dominating the console market and MOBA's dominate streaming services, YouTube views and PC gaming. Look at some sales figures and try to tell me otherwise.
If you don't like PVP balance that's tough. PVE content is a joke and you're bad at the game if you need a couple of extra numbers here and there.
Since you're going the "if you don't like X then too bad route", look here. Right now. This game.
It's not PVP focused or centric. And apparently it won't be for a long time, if ever.
If you don't like it then too bad.
A few years ago someone like you would likely say "every form of gaming is dominated by Farmville clones just deal with it and join in" :rolleyes:
Every method for gaming is dominated by PVP focused games excluding mobile. You can call me pretentious but FPS are dominating the console market and MOBA's dominate streaming services, YouTube views and PC gaming. Look at some sales figures and try to tell me otherwise.
Bringing up the burgeoning FPS & MOBA gaming industries isn't relevant when the discussion is MMORPGs.....
you're bad at the game if you need a couple of extra numbers here and there.
Following this logic, most serious PvPers must therefore be bad at the game. :rolleyes:
Bringing up the burgeoning FPS & MOBA gaming industries isn't relevant when the discussion is MMORPGs.....
Following this logic, most serious PvPers must therefore be bad at the game. :rolleyes:
This entire thread is full of bubble-world thinking and cherrypicking of data and anecdotes.
Thing is, the burden is on the guys pushing the "omg pveers are afraid of our elite important necessary to MMOs group you need us u scrubz!!!1" thing. This isn't a PVP-centric game. I'd argue it shouldn't be, anyway.
But the default to any proposal is to not go through with it. And in this case, especially considering what a circus this thread's been, they're not going anywhere.
Funny, I find most PvPers do the same thing over and over as well, lol.
I wish they would update us on when they are adding PvP.
I fail to see how "use uber stacked template and premades and smacktalk anyone who actually queued" is any less ridiculous than killing NPCs.
Face it. They dont want PVP. They want ganks. Their self-importance and posturing in this thread (not all PVPers, but the OP and the guys backing him up here) is evidence enough.
Lots of "if you dont like it then look at guides X Y and Z and form a premade" is NOT a way to grow a community, PVP or otherwise.
If you scroll back, I didn't bother even mentioning the insulting going around (give and take and self evident) until some of the PVP advocates here decided to play the victim card a few pages back and whine about PVEers insulting them and being meanyheads.
Scroll through a few more threads and you'll see this is a common theme, then scroll through a few balance threads in the pve and pvp forum sections and notice how many complaints about things (balance related) per number of pages and in those threads which group gives more reasoned points and even well thought out and reasoned solutions.
Since you're going the "if you don't like X then too bad route", look here. Right now. This game.
It's not PVP focused or centric. And apparently it won't be for a long time, if ever.
If you don't like it then too bad.
A few years ago someone like you would likely say "every form of gaming is dominated by Farmville clones just deal with it and join in" :rolleyes:
In my original post to which you responded by calling me pretentious I asked for moderate PVP updates. But now you've started calling me some sort of PVP purist. Your attack on me for being a PVP only jerk is hilarious because you're doing just that for PVE. MMO's are designed to cater to both groups of gamers and when PVP has never received a major update in the games lifetime we have a right to be mad.
MMO's are designed to cater to both groups of gamers
False.
when PVP has never received a major update in the games lifetime we have a right to be mad.
Equally false.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
And what are you doing, right here, right now, in this post?
At best it's white knighting. But it looks more like small-time name calling with a vaguely misogynistic twist. Bravo.
I would be tempted to be very annoyed and testy with you, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt since tone isn't really well implied on the internet, and thus I can't really discern what you truly feel when you type.
If you are so willing to dismiss me and other posters based upon a few qualifying words to make intentions transparent, and not give the slightest credence, much less a listening ear to what people have to say, you are the problem. Calling people white knights for pointing out that you are being irrational is not productive.
I would very much like to see what you propose for PVP and some of things that you would do to help both parties. You don't have to be so defensive; I don't think anyone is purposely out to get you. You are too ready to close your mind to people whom you deem "unworthy" of your attention. I'm sorry, but you are not the god of the people of sto, nor are you as wise as you think you are, because you indeed, exemplify the characteristics of this "elitism" that you so wish to stop.
AN honest question after reading so many comments from people saying no pvp update ever!
I never understood how people find it a challenge to destroy stupid npc's who do the same thing EVERY TIME and are so vocal against a pvp fix. As a mostly pvp'er myself i don't care when pve stuff gets added so why the hel should they care if pvp gets an update they don't even have to play it c'mon on you guys have had 8 seasons!!! can we have one?
Look at the way you posed that question.
I am not trying to troll, but speaking as a PvE-preferred gamer, I can honestly say that there is a part of the PvP mindset that is very different than the PvE analog. When someone say's they think what we enjoy is stupid, and then ask why there is not more interest in promoting what you (the person/people) who show literal disdain for something else in the game, is it really a surprise that SOME of the responses are similarly derisive?
Now, for my personal response to the core part of the question; which really is more about the fact that the PvP season is still in the works and PvPers REALLY need support as soon as possible--well I agree.
Solid (and FUN) PvP, that is about the game and not just about stomping the noobs into dust, would only make STO stronger by offering more options for players.
Now, I'll add that the Devs have repeatedly stated that they want better PvP in the game. They have said that it is on the Schedule, and it feels--to me anyway--like they want to make sure that it is a fulfilling experience when it hits.
In my opinion, we have seen at least four significant advancements come about that will ultimately make PvP a better game for all. Three that will affect all aspects of PvP, and one that will help Ground specifically--at least for some players.
1 - (Ground) The introduction of so-called "Shooter Mode". I genuinely believe that once PvP is revamped, that shooter mode will be a key quality of life enhancement.
2 - (All) The re-tooling of the Queue system. While harder to appreciate on the PvP-side of the game right now because there are (relatively) few people queuing for PUG PvP, once a PvP season comes out, the current system will be useful for casual PvPers.
3 - (All) The creation of a Reputation System. This one offers, again in my opinion, a good mechanic for introducing PvP oriented gear and new abilities. It also offers the casual PvPer (at least those who like the rep system) an added incentive to jump in because it supports something they already like and gives players something else to work towards achieving.
4 - (All) The introduction of a genuinely fun Territory-control Mechanic. This one, perhaps more than any other on my list, will add a new level of strategy and team-building to PvP. The current (PvP) territory control does not mean a lot, it's capture and hold ad nauseam what we are seeing in the new Season 8 content is a giant leap forward in terms of diversity and functionality to territory control.
Add to that-that the Devs have stated clearly "It's a no-brainer" that the tech developed for Season 8 will be used in a PvP revamp.
We can even add a fifth improvement, which could tie into number four above, which is the development of Fleets.
Taken together, that is a short list of things that have been created for the game, and have gotten lot's of testing because they are PvE at the moment.
So, how does this answer your question in the OP?
In a nut shell; it is not the PvE community holding the PvP community back. I doubt seriously that the Devs have sat back and said something like; PvE players hate PvP so lets ignore it.
It has taken years to get STO to the level of depth and complexity that it enjoys now, and it continues to improve. In my estimation, all of the tools that have been created to do it have only made a more solid structure to build a "Real" PvP system upon.
Yes, you folks have had to wait a very long time for a PvP revamp, and I know that there are a lot of players (not just dedicated PvPers), that are looking forward to seeing PvP rebuilt from the ground up.
Why? Because everything that Cryptic can do to enhance STO means a stronger healthier game for everyone. Which in turn means longevity for the game.
I also think that PvP is coming soon-ish, when compared to how long we have had to wait for say; content like the battle zone on the ground in the Sphere.
As a community we need to stop blaming each other for the game not containing the thing we want most (I want more KDF Ships and Costumes for example), and look at how far STO has come in four years and support each other when there are significant quality of life improvements, even when it is not the thing we are looking for personally.
In short; I understand the frustration of the PvP community, but I genuinely believe that good things are on the way and that (Bug fixes aside), this game keeps getting better.
I am a PvE player, and I am VERY much looking forward to a healthy PvP game in STO.
1 - (Ground) The introduction of so-called "Shooter Mode". I genuinely believe that once PvP is revamped, that shooter mode will be a key quality of life enhancement.
2 - (All) The re-tooling of the Queue system. While harder to appreciate on the PvP-side of the game right now because there are (relatively) few people queuing for PUG PvP, once a PvP season comes out, the current system will be useful for casual PvPers.
3 - (All) The creation of a Reputation System. This one offers, again in my opinion, a good mechanic for introducing PvP oriented gear and new abilities. It also offers the casual PvPer (at least those who like the rep system) an added incentive to jump in because it supports something they already like and gives players something else to work towards achieving.
4 - (All) The introduction of a genuinely fun Territory-control Mechanic. This one, perhaps more than any other on my list, will add a new level of strategy and team-building to PvP. The current (PvP) territory control does not mean a lot, it's capture and hold ad nauseam what we are seeing in the new Season 8 content is a giant leap forward in terms of diversity and functionality to territory control.
Now before amalefactor jumps all over me and calls me a white knight or an unintelligent uncivilized PVPer Ayn Rand clone out to destroy society, I'm going to have to agree with you qordaj.
Specifically, I agree with 1) 2) and 4) in particular.
1) I think an FPS based ground mode would make combat perhaps more interesting. I envision a sort of Team Fortress'esque retooling of ground combat myself. It would be more fun for me at least.
2) This is extremely important. Separating veterans from newbies in some form and fashion allows people to more or less fight people who won't stomp their faces in.
3) I'm not sure about tying in PvE with PvP, since that it what is keeping a lot of people out of it (i.e. "It's too much grinding to stay competitive.")
4) More gamemodes and a more diverse PVP atmosphere would definitely be more interesting than the shoot and die Arena mode, where the environment is basically a barren box that people shoot each other in haphazardly.
Now, I'll add that the Devs have repeatedly stated that they want better PvP in the game. They have said that it is on the Schedule, and it feels--to me anyway--like they want to make sure that it is a fulfilling experience when it hits.
Devs say a lot of things. One can get the feeling that they'll say whatever is most convenient and self-serving at any particular moment, without regard to that statement's veracity.
As a community we need to stop blaming each other for the game not containing the thing we want most (I want more KDF Ships and Costumes for example), and look at how far STO has come in four years and support each other when there are significant quality of life improvements, even when it is not the thing we are looking for personally.
They may fear that their wants will be put on hold for your pvp revamp but I doubt its an out right fear of the update itself. Its hard to fear what has no chance to hurt you. Most players don't even do pvp so a revamp isn't something they fear. Lost dev time maybe a fear about letting them use the time they have for something that the majority playing doesnt want.
You also have the balance issues that often come when pvp in any game is looked at. Personally balance of classes in any game is a myth that I wish ppl would lose hope for. You can have Class a beats b and b beats c and c beats a, but pure balance for each class against each other is just crazy and I've yet to see it happen. When the devs do try to balance all against each other you see nerfs to classes that affect the pve side of the game which brings alot of pvers in complaining that their game got nerfed for the minority game to be better. Wow, SWG, Swtor, and other games I've played alittle here and there I've seen that complaint over and over. So its not really a fear of the update its a fear of lost time and a fear of how it might affect our side of the game.
Sorry I'm more for pve in all games then I ever was pvp as mostly all pvp seems to do is give ppl the chance to grief each other. That and any game with a cloak or a prof that can turn invisible I find rather annoying.
Scroll through a few more threads and you'll see this is a common theme, then scroll through a few balance threads in the pve and pvp forum sections and notice how many complaints about things (balance related) per number of pages and in those threads which group gives more reasoned points and even well thought out and reasoned solutions.
Go read post #64 which responded to roxbads response(#63) to jetwtfs response (#52).
Its been a big hissy fit since that point.
One thing I wanna see is some content that either be it fed or kdf or both something that is for raiding class ships like bird of preys. There isn't anything I'd consider ample for that weight class/function unless you want to show off how good of a pilot you are at staying alive.
I don't fear a pvp revamp if thats what it takes to get something like that in even if it goes thru pvp testing first it can't get any worse than a boring death match.
I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but really if you think "It's in the works" equates to change coming anytime at all, let alone soon(TM), then I'm sorry to say there's plenty of precedent for this being a hook-statement. It's something I've seen before plenty of times:
"It's in the works, just not a priority right now."
"We've got most of it done, but we've have to put it on the backburner for a bit."
"We don't have a timeframe yet - watch this space!"
"We can't say for sure when, but we can say it will happen at some point."
"We've got some great ideas regarding this issue, and we're going to work on implementing them as soon as our schedule allows."
And on, and on, and on. It's a decent way of keeping a niche demographic on the hook - especially a relatively nomadic one like the MMO PvP community.
What a well thought out post. I especially liked how your points were backed up by opinions based on elegant observations.
So says the person who brought up a pair of irrelevant gaming markets, and made a blanket statement that was more of a shot at the PvP community than the PvE one. :rolleyes:
Could we please have an intelligent conversation without painting each other as idiots and ourselves as paragons of logic and virtue?
Agree or disagree. But please do not violate forum rules in the process!
~ Bluegeek
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
if you want "hardcore PvP" go play EvE...which like most PvP focused MMOs topped out at less than half a million players...
And yet, EVE has experienced steady growth for over 10 years now, and it is 10x the quality of game STO is or will ever be.
The consistency of vision and strength of conviction from the CCP development team and their willingness to interact with the playerbase has seen it move from strength to strength. STO had potential, buckets of it. But ill focused and wayward vision from cryptic has seen it all waste away. STO will live and die in the shadow of WOW, where EVE is something special.
Comments
Everything in the "hardcore" PVPer's bubble universe is awesome and necessary to this game and is the source of all good things in it. You just gotta be in the bubble to see that.
Approval neither desired nor required.:D
So you're wearing the "I am immune to everything because of self-referential irony and can float like a pixie from relevance to irrelevance and you can't touch me" button. Got it.
Here's some light reading:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/how-to-live-without-irony/
When you're done with that feel free to post something other than recycled memes and form an opinion you have the spine to stand with.
And you accuse others of being insulting... nice...
PVE can do all the things you are pretending are only the realm of PVP.[/QUOTE]
PVE can produce a pvp-like experience but the servers can't handle it but if you refuse to see that making two groups happy at the same time is a good thing and arguably better than making only one group of players happy, that's your problem, not mine
Do quote where I said otherwise.
It seemed appropriate.
Every method for gaming is dominated by PVP focused games excluding mobile. You can call me pretentious but FPS are dominating the console market and MOBA's dominate streaming services, YouTube views and PC gaming. Look at some sales figures and try to tell me otherwise.
If you don't like PVP balance that's tough. PVE content is a joke and you're bad at the game if you need a couple of extra numbers here and there.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
If you scroll back, I didn't bother even mentioning the insulting going around (give and take and self evident) until some of the PVP advocates here decided to play the victim card a few pages back and whine about PVEers insulting them and being meanyheads.
The game's been chugging along, more or less, and it's entertaining enough to keep going, without having to drastically pander to a small, very vocal, self-absorbed, self-aggrandizing "YOU NEED US!" group of elitists. "WE MAKE ALL YOUR CONTENT AND BALANCE YOU NEED US" in one breath, then smack talk and "if you dont like premade stomps join a premade" dismissive TRIBBLE in the next.
It's no wonder so few care about PVP in the actual game.
Since you're going the "if you don't like X then too bad route", look here. Right now. This game.
It's not PVP focused or centric. And apparently it won't be for a long time, if ever.
If you don't like it then too bad.
A few years ago someone like you would likely say "every form of gaming is dominated by Farmville clones just deal with it and join in" :rolleyes:
Bringing up the burgeoning FPS & MOBA gaming industries isn't relevant when the discussion is MMORPGs.....
Following this logic, most serious PvPers must therefore be bad at the game. :rolleyes:
Funny, I find most PvPers do the same thing over and over as well, lol.
I wish they would update us on when they are adding PvP.
This entire thread is full of bubble-world thinking and cherrypicking of data and anecdotes.
Thing is, the burden is on the guys pushing the "omg pveers are afraid of our elite important necessary to MMOs group you need us u scrubz!!!1" thing. This isn't a PVP-centric game. I'd argue it shouldn't be, anyway.
But the default to any proposal is to not go through with it. And in this case, especially considering what a circus this thread's been, they're not going anywhere.
I fail to see how "use uber stacked template and premades and smacktalk anyone who actually queued" is any less ridiculous than killing NPCs.
Face it. They dont want PVP. They want ganks. Their self-importance and posturing in this thread (not all PVPers, but the OP and the guys backing him up here) is evidence enough.
Lots of "if you dont like it then look at guides X Y and Z and form a premade" is NOT a way to grow a community, PVP or otherwise.
Scroll through a few more threads and you'll see this is a common theme, then scroll through a few balance threads in the pve and pvp forum sections and notice how many complaints about things (balance related) per number of pages and in those threads which group gives more reasoned points and even well thought out and reasoned solutions.
And one guy critiquing everyone else's posts for 3 pages running now, contributing nothing but a "PMSing grammar psycho" flavor. :eek:
And what are you doing, right here, right now, in this post?
At best it's white knighting. But it looks more like small-time name calling with a vaguely misogynistic twist. Bravo.
In my original post to which you responded by calling me pretentious I asked for moderate PVP updates. But now you've started calling me some sort of PVP purist. Your attack on me for being a PVP only jerk is hilarious because you're doing just that for PVE. MMO's are designed to cater to both groups of gamers and when PVP has never received a major update in the games lifetime we have a right to be mad.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
False.
Equally false.
I would be tempted to be very annoyed and testy with you, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt since tone isn't really well implied on the internet, and thus I can't really discern what you truly feel when you type.
If you are so willing to dismiss me and other posters based upon a few qualifying words to make intentions transparent, and not give the slightest credence, much less a listening ear to what people have to say, you are the problem. Calling people white knights for pointing out that you are being irrational is not productive.
I would very much like to see what you propose for PVP and some of things that you would do to help both parties. You don't have to be so defensive; I don't think anyone is purposely out to get you. You are too ready to close your mind to people whom you deem "unworthy" of your attention. I'm sorry, but you are not the god of the people of sto, nor are you as wise as you think you are, because you indeed, exemplify the characteristics of this "elitism" that you so wish to stop.
Look at the way you posed that question.
I am not trying to troll, but speaking as a PvE-preferred gamer, I can honestly say that there is a part of the PvP mindset that is very different than the PvE analog. When someone say's they think what we enjoy is stupid, and then ask why there is not more interest in promoting what you (the person/people) who show literal disdain for something else in the game, is it really a surprise that SOME of the responses are similarly derisive?
Now, for my personal response to the core part of the question; which really is more about the fact that the PvP season is still in the works and PvPers REALLY need support as soon as possible--well I agree.
Solid (and FUN) PvP, that is about the game and not just about stomping the noobs into dust, would only make STO stronger by offering more options for players.
Now, I'll add that the Devs have repeatedly stated that they want better PvP in the game. They have said that it is on the Schedule, and it feels--to me anyway--like they want to make sure that it is a fulfilling experience when it hits.
In my opinion, we have seen at least four significant advancements come about that will ultimately make PvP a better game for all. Three that will affect all aspects of PvP, and one that will help Ground specifically--at least for some players.
1 - (Ground) The introduction of so-called "Shooter Mode". I genuinely believe that once PvP is revamped, that shooter mode will be a key quality of life enhancement.
2 - (All) The re-tooling of the Queue system. While harder to appreciate on the PvP-side of the game right now because there are (relatively) few people queuing for PUG PvP, once a PvP season comes out, the current system will be useful for casual PvPers.
3 - (All) The creation of a Reputation System. This one offers, again in my opinion, a good mechanic for introducing PvP oriented gear and new abilities. It also offers the casual PvPer (at least those who like the rep system) an added incentive to jump in because it supports something they already like and gives players something else to work towards achieving.
4 - (All) The introduction of a genuinely fun Territory-control Mechanic. This one, perhaps more than any other on my list, will add a new level of strategy and team-building to PvP. The current (PvP) territory control does not mean a lot, it's capture and hold ad nauseam what we are seeing in the new Season 8 content is a giant leap forward in terms of diversity and functionality to territory control.
Add to that-that the Devs have stated clearly "It's a no-brainer" that the tech developed for Season 8 will be used in a PvP revamp.
We can even add a fifth improvement, which could tie into number four above, which is the development of Fleets.
Taken together, that is a short list of things that have been created for the game, and have gotten lot's of testing because they are PvE at the moment.
So, how does this answer your question in the OP?
In a nut shell; it is not the PvE community holding the PvP community back. I doubt seriously that the Devs have sat back and said something like; PvE players hate PvP so lets ignore it.
It has taken years to get STO to the level of depth and complexity that it enjoys now, and it continues to improve. In my estimation, all of the tools that have been created to do it have only made a more solid structure to build a "Real" PvP system upon.
Yes, you folks have had to wait a very long time for a PvP revamp, and I know that there are a lot of players (not just dedicated PvPers), that are looking forward to seeing PvP rebuilt from the ground up.
Why? Because everything that Cryptic can do to enhance STO means a stronger healthier game for everyone. Which in turn means longevity for the game.
I also think that PvP is coming soon-ish, when compared to how long we have had to wait for say; content like the battle zone on the ground in the Sphere.
As a community we need to stop blaming each other for the game not containing the thing we want most (I want more KDF Ships and Costumes for example), and look at how far STO has come in four years and support each other when there are significant quality of life improvements, even when it is not the thing we are looking for personally.
In short; I understand the frustration of the PvP community, but I genuinely believe that good things are on the way and that (Bug fixes aside), this game keeps getting better.
I am a PvE player, and I am VERY much looking forward to a healthy PvP game in STO.
maj!
Operations Team, 12th Fleet
Now before amalefactor jumps all over me and calls me a white knight or an unintelligent uncivilized PVPer Ayn Rand clone out to destroy society, I'm going to have to agree with you qordaj.
Specifically, I agree with 1) 2) and 4) in particular.
1) I think an FPS based ground mode would make combat perhaps more interesting. I envision a sort of Team Fortress'esque retooling of ground combat myself. It would be more fun for me at least.
2) This is extremely important. Separating veterans from newbies in some form and fashion allows people to more or less fight people who won't stomp their faces in.
3) I'm not sure about tying in PvE with PvP, since that it what is keeping a lot of people out of it (i.e. "It's too much grinding to stay competitive.")
4) More gamemodes and a more diverse PVP atmosphere would definitely be more interesting than the shoot and die Arena mode, where the environment is basically a barren box that people shoot each other in haphazardly.
What a well thought out post. I especially liked how your points were backed up by opinions based on elegant observations.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Devs say a lot of things. One can get the feeling that they'll say whatever is most convenient and self-serving at any particular moment, without regard to that statement's veracity.
Well said. An overall commendable post.
You also have the balance issues that often come when pvp in any game is looked at. Personally balance of classes in any game is a myth that I wish ppl would lose hope for. You can have Class a beats b and b beats c and c beats a, but pure balance for each class against each other is just crazy and I've yet to see it happen. When the devs do try to balance all against each other you see nerfs to classes that affect the pve side of the game which brings alot of pvers in complaining that their game got nerfed for the minority game to be better. Wow, SWG, Swtor, and other games I've played alittle here and there I've seen that complaint over and over. So its not really a fear of the update its a fear of lost time and a fear of how it might affect our side of the game.
Sorry I'm more for pve in all games then I ever was pvp as mostly all pvp seems to do is give ppl the chance to grief each other. That and any game with a cloak or a prof that can turn invisible I find rather annoying.
Go read post #64 which responded to roxbads response(#63) to jetwtfs response (#52).
Its been a big hissy fit since that point.
R.I.P
I don't fear a pvp revamp if thats what it takes to get something like that in even if it goes thru pvp testing first it can't get any worse than a boring death match.
I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but really if you think "It's in the works" equates to change coming anytime at all, let alone soon(TM), then I'm sorry to say there's plenty of precedent for this being a hook-statement. It's something I've seen before plenty of times:
"It's in the works, just not a priority right now."
"We've got most of it done, but we've have to put it on the backburner for a bit."
"We don't have a timeframe yet - watch this space!"
"We can't say for sure when, but we can say it will happen at some point."
"We've got some great ideas regarding this issue, and we're going to work on implementing them as soon as our schedule allows."
And on, and on, and on. It's a decent way of keeping a niche demographic on the hook - especially a relatively nomadic one like the MMO PvP community.
So says the person who brought up a pair of irrelevant gaming markets, and made a blanket statement that was more of a shot at the PvP community than the PvE one. :rolleyes:
Could we please have an intelligent conversation without painting each other as idiots and ourselves as paragons of logic and virtue?
Agree or disagree. But please do not violate forum rules in the process!
~ Bluegeek
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And yet, EVE has experienced steady growth for over 10 years now, and it is 10x the quality of game STO is or will ever be.
The consistency of vision and strength of conviction from the CCP development team and their willingness to interact with the playerbase has seen it move from strength to strength. STO had potential, buckets of it. But ill focused and wayward vision from cryptic has seen it all waste away. STO will live and die in the shadow of WOW, where EVE is something special.
My whole existence is to violate every rule they are made to be broken.
Plus I don't paint.