MMO's are designed to cater to both groups of gamers
False.
when PVP has never received a major update in the games lifetime we have a right to be mad.
Equally false.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
And what are you doing, right here, right now, in this post?
At best it's white knighting. But it looks more like small-time name calling with a vaguely misogynistic twist. Bravo.
I would be tempted to be very annoyed and testy with you, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt since tone isn't really well implied on the internet, and thus I can't really discern what you truly feel when you type.
If you are so willing to dismiss me and other posters based upon a few qualifying words to make intentions transparent, and not give the slightest credence, much less a listening ear to what people have to say, you are the problem. Calling people white knights for pointing out that you are being irrational is not productive.
I would very much like to see what you propose for PVP and some of things that you would do to help both parties. You don't have to be so defensive; I don't think anyone is purposely out to get you. You are too ready to close your mind to people whom you deem "unworthy" of your attention. I'm sorry, but you are not the god of the people of sto, nor are you as wise as you think you are, because you indeed, exemplify the characteristics of this "elitism" that you so wish to stop.
AN honest question after reading so many comments from people saying no pvp update ever!
I never understood how people find it a challenge to destroy stupid npc's who do the same thing EVERY TIME and are so vocal against a pvp fix. As a mostly pvp'er myself i don't care when pve stuff gets added so why the hel should they care if pvp gets an update they don't even have to play it c'mon on you guys have had 8 seasons!!! can we have one?
Look at the way you posed that question.
I am not trying to troll, but speaking as a PvE-preferred gamer, I can honestly say that there is a part of the PvP mindset that is very different than the PvE analog. When someone say's they think what we enjoy is stupid, and then ask why there is not more interest in promoting what you (the person/people) who show literal disdain for something else in the game, is it really a surprise that SOME of the responses are similarly derisive?
Now, for my personal response to the core part of the question; which really is more about the fact that the PvP season is still in the works and PvPers REALLY need support as soon as possible--well I agree.
Solid (and FUN) PvP, that is about the game and not just about stomping the noobs into dust, would only make STO stronger by offering more options for players.
Now, I'll add that the Devs have repeatedly stated that they want better PvP in the game. They have said that it is on the Schedule, and it feels--to me anyway--like they want to make sure that it is a fulfilling experience when it hits.
In my opinion, we have seen at least four significant advancements come about that will ultimately make PvP a better game for all. Three that will affect all aspects of PvP, and one that will help Ground specifically--at least for some players.
1 - (Ground) The introduction of so-called "Shooter Mode". I genuinely believe that once PvP is revamped, that shooter mode will be a key quality of life enhancement.
2 - (All) The re-tooling of the Queue system. While harder to appreciate on the PvP-side of the game right now because there are (relatively) few people queuing for PUG PvP, once a PvP season comes out, the current system will be useful for casual PvPers.
3 - (All) The creation of a Reputation System. This one offers, again in my opinion, a good mechanic for introducing PvP oriented gear and new abilities. It also offers the casual PvPer (at least those who like the rep system) an added incentive to jump in because it supports something they already like and gives players something else to work towards achieving.
4 - (All) The introduction of a genuinely fun Territory-control Mechanic. This one, perhaps more than any other on my list, will add a new level of strategy and team-building to PvP. The current (PvP) territory control does not mean a lot, it's capture and hold ad nauseam what we are seeing in the new Season 8 content is a giant leap forward in terms of diversity and functionality to territory control.
Add to that-that the Devs have stated clearly "It's a no-brainer" that the tech developed for Season 8 will be used in a PvP revamp.
We can even add a fifth improvement, which could tie into number four above, which is the development of Fleets.
Taken together, that is a short list of things that have been created for the game, and have gotten lot's of testing because they are PvE at the moment.
So, how does this answer your question in the OP?
In a nut shell; it is not the PvE community holding the PvP community back. I doubt seriously that the Devs have sat back and said something like; PvE players hate PvP so lets ignore it.
It has taken years to get STO to the level of depth and complexity that it enjoys now, and it continues to improve. In my estimation, all of the tools that have been created to do it have only made a more solid structure to build a "Real" PvP system upon.
Yes, you folks have had to wait a very long time for a PvP revamp, and I know that there are a lot of players (not just dedicated PvPers), that are looking forward to seeing PvP rebuilt from the ground up.
Why? Because everything that Cryptic can do to enhance STO means a stronger healthier game for everyone. Which in turn means longevity for the game.
I also think that PvP is coming soon-ish, when compared to how long we have had to wait for say; content like the battle zone on the ground in the Sphere.
As a community we need to stop blaming each other for the game not containing the thing we want most (I want more KDF Ships and Costumes for example), and look at how far STO has come in four years and support each other when there are significant quality of life improvements, even when it is not the thing we are looking for personally.
In short; I understand the frustration of the PvP community, but I genuinely believe that good things are on the way and that (Bug fixes aside), this game keeps getting better.
I am a PvE player, and I am VERY much looking forward to a healthy PvP game in STO.
1 - (Ground) The introduction of so-called "Shooter Mode". I genuinely believe that once PvP is revamped, that shooter mode will be a key quality of life enhancement.
2 - (All) The re-tooling of the Queue system. While harder to appreciate on the PvP-side of the game right now because there are (relatively) few people queuing for PUG PvP, once a PvP season comes out, the current system will be useful for casual PvPers.
3 - (All) The creation of a Reputation System. This one offers, again in my opinion, a good mechanic for introducing PvP oriented gear and new abilities. It also offers the casual PvPer (at least those who like the rep system) an added incentive to jump in because it supports something they already like and gives players something else to work towards achieving.
4 - (All) The introduction of a genuinely fun Territory-control Mechanic. This one, perhaps more than any other on my list, will add a new level of strategy and team-building to PvP. The current (PvP) territory control does not mean a lot, it's capture and hold ad nauseam what we are seeing in the new Season 8 content is a giant leap forward in terms of diversity and functionality to territory control.
Now before amalefactor jumps all over me and calls me a white knight or an unintelligent uncivilized PVPer Ayn Rand clone out to destroy society, I'm going to have to agree with you qordaj.
Specifically, I agree with 1) 2) and 4) in particular.
1) I think an FPS based ground mode would make combat perhaps more interesting. I envision a sort of Team Fortress'esque retooling of ground combat myself. It would be more fun for me at least.
2) This is extremely important. Separating veterans from newbies in some form and fashion allows people to more or less fight people who won't stomp their faces in.
3) I'm not sure about tying in PvE with PvP, since that it what is keeping a lot of people out of it (i.e. "It's too much grinding to stay competitive.")
4) More gamemodes and a more diverse PVP atmosphere would definitely be more interesting than the shoot and die Arena mode, where the environment is basically a barren box that people shoot each other in haphazardly.
Now, I'll add that the Devs have repeatedly stated that they want better PvP in the game. They have said that it is on the Schedule, and it feels--to me anyway--like they want to make sure that it is a fulfilling experience when it hits.
Devs say a lot of things. One can get the feeling that they'll say whatever is most convenient and self-serving at any particular moment, without regard to that statement's veracity.
As a community we need to stop blaming each other for the game not containing the thing we want most (I want more KDF Ships and Costumes for example), and look at how far STO has come in four years and support each other when there are significant quality of life improvements, even when it is not the thing we are looking for personally.
They may fear that their wants will be put on hold for your pvp revamp but I doubt its an out right fear of the update itself. Its hard to fear what has no chance to hurt you. Most players don't even do pvp so a revamp isn't something they fear. Lost dev time maybe a fear about letting them use the time they have for something that the majority playing doesnt want.
You also have the balance issues that often come when pvp in any game is looked at. Personally balance of classes in any game is a myth that I wish ppl would lose hope for. You can have Class a beats b and b beats c and c beats a, but pure balance for each class against each other is just crazy and I've yet to see it happen. When the devs do try to balance all against each other you see nerfs to classes that affect the pve side of the game which brings alot of pvers in complaining that their game got nerfed for the minority game to be better. Wow, SWG, Swtor, and other games I've played alittle here and there I've seen that complaint over and over. So its not really a fear of the update its a fear of lost time and a fear of how it might affect our side of the game.
Sorry I'm more for pve in all games then I ever was pvp as mostly all pvp seems to do is give ppl the chance to grief each other. That and any game with a cloak or a prof that can turn invisible I find rather annoying.
Scroll through a few more threads and you'll see this is a common theme, then scroll through a few balance threads in the pve and pvp forum sections and notice how many complaints about things (balance related) per number of pages and in those threads which group gives more reasoned points and even well thought out and reasoned solutions.
Go read post #64 which responded to roxbads response(#63) to jetwtfs response (#52).
Its been a big hissy fit since that point.
One thing I wanna see is some content that either be it fed or kdf or both something that is for raiding class ships like bird of preys. There isn't anything I'd consider ample for that weight class/function unless you want to show off how good of a pilot you are at staying alive.
I don't fear a pvp revamp if thats what it takes to get something like that in even if it goes thru pvp testing first it can't get any worse than a boring death match.
I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but really if you think "It's in the works" equates to change coming anytime at all, let alone soon(TM), then I'm sorry to say there's plenty of precedent for this being a hook-statement. It's something I've seen before plenty of times:
"It's in the works, just not a priority right now."
"We've got most of it done, but we've have to put it on the backburner for a bit."
"We don't have a timeframe yet - watch this space!"
"We can't say for sure when, but we can say it will happen at some point."
"We've got some great ideas regarding this issue, and we're going to work on implementing them as soon as our schedule allows."
And on, and on, and on. It's a decent way of keeping a niche demographic on the hook - especially a relatively nomadic one like the MMO PvP community.
What a well thought out post. I especially liked how your points were backed up by opinions based on elegant observations.
So says the person who brought up a pair of irrelevant gaming markets, and made a blanket statement that was more of a shot at the PvP community than the PvE one. :rolleyes:
Could we please have an intelligent conversation without painting each other as idiots and ourselves as paragons of logic and virtue?
Agree or disagree. But please do not violate forum rules in the process!
~ Bluegeek
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
if you want "hardcore PvP" go play EvE...which like most PvP focused MMOs topped out at less than half a million players...
And yet, EVE has experienced steady growth for over 10 years now, and it is 10x the quality of game STO is or will ever be.
The consistency of vision and strength of conviction from the CCP development team and their willingness to interact with the playerbase has seen it move from strength to strength. STO had potential, buckets of it. But ill focused and wayward vision from cryptic has seen it all waste away. STO will live and die in the shadow of WOW, where EVE is something special.
So says the person who brought up a pair of irrelevant gaming markets, and made a blanket statement that was more of a shot at the PvP community than the PvE one. :rolleyes:
There is no such thing as an irrelevant gaming market when discussing gaming. PVP-centric games being dominant on both consoles and computers affects everyone but mobile gamers. The FTP market is dominated by Mobas. This phenomena affects us as players and consumers. PVP is the most popular way to extend a games longevity and not treating it like a red headed step child will do the game well. Just because PVP doesn't dominate MMOs doesn't mean it's not important. Every MMO ships with PVP because it's considered a key feature in practically any game.
Even survival horror games which thrive on being alone and scared are getting multi-player modes. If you want proof of my statements you can find them in devs words. Geko would like to put Moba elements into a pvp mode, a pvp rep is being considered, and territory control is being touted as a probable mode for PVP. The stuff is important and right now the devs are just wondering what to do. So don't anyone call it a pointless feature. And please remember I'm not advocating the game be taken over by PVP. I just want it to grow and be decent.
What a well thought out post. I especially liked how your points were backed up by opinions based on elegant observations.
They don't need to be backed up by opinions, they're backed up by facts.
Fact: Not all MMO's are designed with PvP.
Fact: No one has a right to be mad that the service they voluntarily partake of doesn't contain features or updates that weren't promised.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
They don't need to be backed up by opinions, they're backed up by facts.
Fact: Not all MMO's are designed with PvP.
Fact: No one has a right to be mad that the service they voluntarily partake of doesn't contain features or updates that weren't promised.
Fact: most MMOs are designed with PVP.
Fact: STO was designed with PVP as a part of its package.
Fact: gamers can get mad when a part of the package they invested in is shunned.
Fact: most MMOs are designed with PVP.
Fact: STO was designed with PVP as a part of its package.
Fact: gamers can get mad when a part of the package they invested in is shunned.
You said "MMO's are designed to cater to both groups of gamers" not "most MMO's." So you're in the wrong on the first part, regardless.
Secondly, gamers who get mad because they're playing in the hopes that changes they want will happen are deluding themselves. You should play the game that exists, not the one that you hope will exist in the future, and absent solid developer posts to the contrary, getting mad about the fact that your hopes don't coincide with the future is pretty silly, and certainly not something that should be referred to (your words) as a "right."
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Fact: you can't say "Good Eye Might" without sounding Australian
You can if you William Shatner it.
Good!
Eye!
Miiiiiiiiiiight!
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
No one has a right to be mad that the service they voluntarily partake of doesn't contain features or updates that weren't promised.
only to tell u: they made promises about pvp from the start on and nothing happened since then, except fixing spawnpoints in kerrat, taking away one map/mode and paint the background in fvk capn'n hold into black...
in short: much talk, no rock.
also, regarding ur sig:
it's not surprising at all if pvp numbers are that low when nothing is invested into it and the game itself grant almost no education about its mechanics in any content at all.
...also, from what i know a dev said that 18 percent of the playerbase (whatever that means) is klink. so, how can it be that only one percent of the playerbase is actually pvping when the pvp-labelled faction is that much bigger?
...dont trust any statistics, except the ones u faked
Fact: most MMOs are designed with PVP.
Fact: STO was designed with PVP as a part of its package.
Fact: gamers can get mad when a part of the package they invested in is shunned.
Funny. The primary forum crutch in this thread seems to be saying "u mad" in some form or another. And here, we see a "mad" specifically about not being catered to.
And so a salvageable thread goes to Stovokor... or is it Gre'thor... I can't decide... how honourable was it?
Considering how much victimization (paradoxically at the same time making claims of elite status) and "woe is us we are necessary to this game" statements are being made, definitely Gre'thor.
You said "MMO's are designed to cater to both groups of gamers" not "most MMO's." So you're in the wrong on the first part, regardless.
Does establishing that there are a few MMOs without PVP disprove my entire point? I don't think it does and you're just bringing more attention to the fact that it's an industry standard.
Secondly, gamers who get mad because they're playing in the hopes that changes they want will happen are deluding themselves. You should play the game that exists, not the one that you hope will exist in the future, and absent solid developer posts to the contrary, getting mad about the fact that your hopes don't coincide with the future is pretty silly, and certainly not something that should be referred to (your words) as a "right."
First off the Devs have said many things about what they want to do with PVP. So you too are getting mad about possible futures.
PVP exists in STO and has been there from the start. Not hoping for change you view as positive in a game you play sounds like a punishing existence of delirious acceptance. People don't just accept the way the government or businesses work, but they keep on soldiering in hope that things will get better. Things like resource allocation, supply, and demand determine what can be changed at any time. I understand that STO was considered incomplete at launch by many reviewers and it's taken a long time to overcome that notion in the most basic of meanings. But the mission has been accomplished at this point with a long game filled with grinding and lore. But as part of the original package PVP still remains unfinished. Since the basic needs of the game are fulfilled in a grinding MMO sense the time has come to add something exotic. Giving PVP a nice update would both fulfil the original games purpose built design and add something exotic to the end game.
It's a win win for everyone if done properly. A portion of the population stays for longer and we attract more players. The PVP community isn't a blight either, they've helped fix several inherit bugs that hurt everyone. Look at the history of FAW if you want an example.
There is no such thing as an irrelevant gaming market when discussing gaming. PVP-centric games being dominant on both consoles and computers affects everyone but mobile gamers. The FTP market is dominated by Mobas. This phenomena affects us as players and consumers. PVP is the most popular way to extend a games longevity and not treating it like a red headed step child will do the game well. Just because PVP doesn't dominate MMOs doesn't mean it's not important. Every MMO ships with PVP because it's considered a key feature in practically any game.
Even survival horror games which thrive on being alone and scared are getting multi-player modes. If you want proof of my statements you can find them in devs words. Geko would like to put Moba elements into a pvp mode, a pvp rep is being considered, and territory control is being touted as a probable mode for PVP. The stuff is important and right now the devs are just wondering what to do. So don't anyone call it a pointless feature. And please remember I'm not advocating the game be taken over by PVP. I just want it to grow and be decent.
So Moba-clones for everyone right? That'll make tons of money and be sure to work! Like all those Blizzard-MMO clones! Right? Right?
You may not be able to notice this in the bubble you're living in, but not everyone wants to play another stupid Moba clone. In much the same way that you don't like PVE, we don't want to be in your quasi e-sport.
Comments
False.
Equally false.
I would be tempted to be very annoyed and testy with you, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt since tone isn't really well implied on the internet, and thus I can't really discern what you truly feel when you type.
If you are so willing to dismiss me and other posters based upon a few qualifying words to make intentions transparent, and not give the slightest credence, much less a listening ear to what people have to say, you are the problem. Calling people white knights for pointing out that you are being irrational is not productive.
I would very much like to see what you propose for PVP and some of things that you would do to help both parties. You don't have to be so defensive; I don't think anyone is purposely out to get you. You are too ready to close your mind to people whom you deem "unworthy" of your attention. I'm sorry, but you are not the god of the people of sto, nor are you as wise as you think you are, because you indeed, exemplify the characteristics of this "elitism" that you so wish to stop.
Look at the way you posed that question.
I am not trying to troll, but speaking as a PvE-preferred gamer, I can honestly say that there is a part of the PvP mindset that is very different than the PvE analog. When someone say's they think what we enjoy is stupid, and then ask why there is not more interest in promoting what you (the person/people) who show literal disdain for something else in the game, is it really a surprise that SOME of the responses are similarly derisive?
Now, for my personal response to the core part of the question; which really is more about the fact that the PvP season is still in the works and PvPers REALLY need support as soon as possible--well I agree.
Solid (and FUN) PvP, that is about the game and not just about stomping the noobs into dust, would only make STO stronger by offering more options for players.
Now, I'll add that the Devs have repeatedly stated that they want better PvP in the game. They have said that it is on the Schedule, and it feels--to me anyway--like they want to make sure that it is a fulfilling experience when it hits.
In my opinion, we have seen at least four significant advancements come about that will ultimately make PvP a better game for all. Three that will affect all aspects of PvP, and one that will help Ground specifically--at least for some players.
1 - (Ground) The introduction of so-called "Shooter Mode". I genuinely believe that once PvP is revamped, that shooter mode will be a key quality of life enhancement.
2 - (All) The re-tooling of the Queue system. While harder to appreciate on the PvP-side of the game right now because there are (relatively) few people queuing for PUG PvP, once a PvP season comes out, the current system will be useful for casual PvPers.
3 - (All) The creation of a Reputation System. This one offers, again in my opinion, a good mechanic for introducing PvP oriented gear and new abilities. It also offers the casual PvPer (at least those who like the rep system) an added incentive to jump in because it supports something they already like and gives players something else to work towards achieving.
4 - (All) The introduction of a genuinely fun Territory-control Mechanic. This one, perhaps more than any other on my list, will add a new level of strategy and team-building to PvP. The current (PvP) territory control does not mean a lot, it's capture and hold ad nauseam what we are seeing in the new Season 8 content is a giant leap forward in terms of diversity and functionality to territory control.
Add to that-that the Devs have stated clearly "It's a no-brainer" that the tech developed for Season 8 will be used in a PvP revamp.
We can even add a fifth improvement, which could tie into number four above, which is the development of Fleets.
Taken together, that is a short list of things that have been created for the game, and have gotten lot's of testing because they are PvE at the moment.
So, how does this answer your question in the OP?
In a nut shell; it is not the PvE community holding the PvP community back. I doubt seriously that the Devs have sat back and said something like; PvE players hate PvP so lets ignore it.
It has taken years to get STO to the level of depth and complexity that it enjoys now, and it continues to improve. In my estimation, all of the tools that have been created to do it have only made a more solid structure to build a "Real" PvP system upon.
Yes, you folks have had to wait a very long time for a PvP revamp, and I know that there are a lot of players (not just dedicated PvPers), that are looking forward to seeing PvP rebuilt from the ground up.
Why? Because everything that Cryptic can do to enhance STO means a stronger healthier game for everyone. Which in turn means longevity for the game.
I also think that PvP is coming soon-ish, when compared to how long we have had to wait for say; content like the battle zone on the ground in the Sphere.
As a community we need to stop blaming each other for the game not containing the thing we want most (I want more KDF Ships and Costumes for example), and look at how far STO has come in four years and support each other when there are significant quality of life improvements, even when it is not the thing we are looking for personally.
In short; I understand the frustration of the PvP community, but I genuinely believe that good things are on the way and that (Bug fixes aside), this game keeps getting better.
I am a PvE player, and I am VERY much looking forward to a healthy PvP game in STO.
maj!
Operations Team, 12th Fleet
Now before amalefactor jumps all over me and calls me a white knight or an unintelligent uncivilized PVPer Ayn Rand clone out to destroy society, I'm going to have to agree with you qordaj.
Specifically, I agree with 1) 2) and 4) in particular.
1) I think an FPS based ground mode would make combat perhaps more interesting. I envision a sort of Team Fortress'esque retooling of ground combat myself. It would be more fun for me at least.
2) This is extremely important. Separating veterans from newbies in some form and fashion allows people to more or less fight people who won't stomp their faces in.
3) I'm not sure about tying in PvE with PvP, since that it what is keeping a lot of people out of it (i.e. "It's too much grinding to stay competitive.")
4) More gamemodes and a more diverse PVP atmosphere would definitely be more interesting than the shoot and die Arena mode, where the environment is basically a barren box that people shoot each other in haphazardly.
What a well thought out post. I especially liked how your points were backed up by opinions based on elegant observations.
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Devs say a lot of things. One can get the feeling that they'll say whatever is most convenient and self-serving at any particular moment, without regard to that statement's veracity.
Well said. An overall commendable post.
You also have the balance issues that often come when pvp in any game is looked at. Personally balance of classes in any game is a myth that I wish ppl would lose hope for. You can have Class a beats b and b beats c and c beats a, but pure balance for each class against each other is just crazy and I've yet to see it happen. When the devs do try to balance all against each other you see nerfs to classes that affect the pve side of the game which brings alot of pvers in complaining that their game got nerfed for the minority game to be better. Wow, SWG, Swtor, and other games I've played alittle here and there I've seen that complaint over and over. So its not really a fear of the update its a fear of lost time and a fear of how it might affect our side of the game.
Sorry I'm more for pve in all games then I ever was pvp as mostly all pvp seems to do is give ppl the chance to grief each other. That and any game with a cloak or a prof that can turn invisible I find rather annoying.
Go read post #64 which responded to roxbads response(#63) to jetwtfs response (#52).
Its been a big hissy fit since that point.
R.I.P
I don't fear a pvp revamp if thats what it takes to get something like that in even if it goes thru pvp testing first it can't get any worse than a boring death match.
I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but really if you think "It's in the works" equates to change coming anytime at all, let alone soon(TM), then I'm sorry to say there's plenty of precedent for this being a hook-statement. It's something I've seen before plenty of times:
"It's in the works, just not a priority right now."
"We've got most of it done, but we've have to put it on the backburner for a bit."
"We don't have a timeframe yet - watch this space!"
"We can't say for sure when, but we can say it will happen at some point."
"We've got some great ideas regarding this issue, and we're going to work on implementing them as soon as our schedule allows."
And on, and on, and on. It's a decent way of keeping a niche demographic on the hook - especially a relatively nomadic one like the MMO PvP community.
So says the person who brought up a pair of irrelevant gaming markets, and made a blanket statement that was more of a shot at the PvP community than the PvE one. :rolleyes:
Could we please have an intelligent conversation without painting each other as idiots and ourselves as paragons of logic and virtue?
Agree or disagree. But please do not violate forum rules in the process!
~ Bluegeek
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
And yet, EVE has experienced steady growth for over 10 years now, and it is 10x the quality of game STO is or will ever be.
The consistency of vision and strength of conviction from the CCP development team and their willingness to interact with the playerbase has seen it move from strength to strength. STO had potential, buckets of it. But ill focused and wayward vision from cryptic has seen it all waste away. STO will live and die in the shadow of WOW, where EVE is something special.
My whole existence is to violate every rule they are made to be broken.
Plus I don't paint.
God, this forum needs an ignore function. Badly.
There is no such thing as an irrelevant gaming market when discussing gaming. PVP-centric games being dominant on both consoles and computers affects everyone but mobile gamers. The FTP market is dominated by Mobas. This phenomena affects us as players and consumers. PVP is the most popular way to extend a games longevity and not treating it like a red headed step child will do the game well. Just because PVP doesn't dominate MMOs doesn't mean it's not important. Every MMO ships with PVP because it's considered a key feature in practically any game.
Even survival horror games which thrive on being alone and scared are getting multi-player modes. If you want proof of my statements you can find them in devs words. Geko would like to put Moba elements into a pvp mode, a pvp rep is being considered, and territory control is being touted as a probable mode for PVP. The stuff is important and right now the devs are just wondering what to do. So don't anyone call it a pointless feature. And please remember I'm not advocating the game be taken over by PVP. I just want it to grow and be decent.
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Thanks
They don't need to be backed up by opinions, they're backed up by facts.
Fact: Not all MMO's are designed with PvP.
Fact: No one has a right to be mad that the service they voluntarily partake of doesn't contain features or updates that weren't promised.
Fact: most MMOs are designed with PVP.
Fact: STO was designed with PVP as a part of its package.
Fact: gamers can get mad when a part of the package they invested in is shunned.
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You said "MMO's are designed to cater to both groups of gamers" not "most MMO's." So you're in the wrong on the first part, regardless.
Secondly, gamers who get mad because they're playing in the hopes that changes they want will happen are deluding themselves. You should play the game that exists, not the one that you hope will exist in the future, and absent solid developer posts to the contrary, getting mad about the fact that your hopes don't coincide with the future is pretty silly, and certainly not something that should be referred to (your words) as a "right."
You can if you William Shatner it.
Good!
Eye!
Miiiiiiiiiiight!
only to tell u: they made promises about pvp from the start on and nothing happened since then, except fixing spawnpoints in kerrat, taking away one map/mode and paint the background in fvk capn'n hold into black...
in short: much talk, no rock.
also, regarding ur sig:
it's not surprising at all if pvp numbers are that low when nothing is invested into it and the game itself grant almost no education about its mechanics in any content at all.
...also, from what i know a dev said that 18 percent of the playerbase (whatever that means) is klink. so, how can it be that only one percent of the playerbase is actually pvping when the pvp-labelled faction is that much bigger?
...dont trust any statistics, except the ones u faked
Funny. The primary forum crutch in this thread seems to be saying "u mad" in some form or another. And here, we see a "mad" specifically about not being catered to.
Considering how much victimization (paradoxically at the same time making claims of elite status) and "woe is us we are necessary to this game" statements are being made, definitely Gre'thor.
Does establishing that there are a few MMOs without PVP disprove my entire point? I don't think it does and you're just bringing more attention to the fact that it's an industry standard.
First off the Devs have said many things about what they want to do with PVP. So you too are getting mad about possible futures.
PVP exists in STO and has been there from the start. Not hoping for change you view as positive in a game you play sounds like a punishing existence of delirious acceptance. People don't just accept the way the government or businesses work, but they keep on soldiering in hope that things will get better. Things like resource allocation, supply, and demand determine what can be changed at any time. I understand that STO was considered incomplete at launch by many reviewers and it's taken a long time to overcome that notion in the most basic of meanings. But the mission has been accomplished at this point with a long game filled with grinding and lore. But as part of the original package PVP still remains unfinished. Since the basic needs of the game are fulfilled in a grinding MMO sense the time has come to add something exotic. Giving PVP a nice update would both fulfil the original games purpose built design and add something exotic to the end game.
It's a win win for everyone if done properly. A portion of the population stays for longer and we attract more players. The PVP community isn't a blight either, they've helped fix several inherit bugs that hurt everyone. Look at the history of FAW if you want an example.
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So Moba-clones for everyone right? That'll make tons of money and be sure to work! Like all those Blizzard-MMO clones! Right? Right?
You may not be able to notice this in the bubble you're living in, but not everyone wants to play another stupid Moba clone. In much the same way that you don't like PVE, we don't want to be in your quasi e-sport.
Your a nice person. Dont let the forums take that away from you.
R.I.P