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Thoughts on ground PvP, ground PvP fleets, etc by Mcduffie

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  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    This has group hug written all over it.

    I'll hafta pass.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I'll hafta pass.

    If only because you run a broken science officer and pretend that it is skill :P
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I hope that the ground pvpers are getting themselves ready for the STO Frontlines TC!!

    There is going to be plenty of ground action. :)
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If only because you run a broken science officer and pretend that it is skill :P

    Ummmmm. You know I run Medic. Why would I run that? But hey whatever those voices in your head tell you....maybe you should put the needle down.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, you sound like only fleets or premade use things like that. Pugs that know about it use it too. Pugs yhatbask questions will know about it. Pugs that make friends will eventually run premades. I've seen you leave a match already. Crying that no one qeues, you get in, you leave. If you got on with a pug that uses that, would you apologize for your team? There are tactics to avoid that doff. I've tanked out a few times. 2 healers on a team can chain heals. Which is another reason premades are good. To run the holy trinity and teamwork. You make excuses for not wanting to distribute teamwork. How many threads are you going to post that need to be merged before you realize the problem lies in you? You made a YouTube video about change, but don't want to. I will continue to run with my fleet and friends I've made in the game for teamwork and fun. If any pugs want to learn teamwork and run with me, my fleet, or my team, I've never said no. Why you don't want to promote teamwork in an MMO is beyond me. You've become nothing but a QQer and griefer.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I've seen you leave a match already. Crying that no one qeues, you get in, you leave.

    Yupp, I left that match. My words in zone where, "I'm not going to fight a premade who brings 2 of those broken science officers.". I'm not going to punish myself and I'm not going to feed your mistaken ego. My advice to anyone who pugs is to leave if they see something they don't think is fair. I have plenty of good matches, but only when the premades aren't around to ruin the fun. In fact, yesterday a match just became sparring when we realized that we had an opportunity to have a little fun with out you guys around.
    I always Q alone. I am not scared to fight alone. I never see you creeps Q alone. Safety in numbers is not the same thing as skill.
    I know what the deal is. I have heard the way some of you can get very angry in voice chat when a match is getting difficult. You can not handle loosing, so you only team Q to ensure an easy win. You aren't interested in having fun or giving someone a good fight. You only want to win hands down. It is not fun in the premades. That is part of the reason I quit. PVP is not fun when you are always guaranteed one of two things: an easy victory or a 40 minute fight through the same door versus another premade.
    If you are so good then why not tone it down and meet the majority of players on their own level. I love my new skill build. I love being able to compete in space and ground. I don't know what is so great about being part of the ground spec minority.
    I think that players who believe they must have a toon for space and a separate one for ground have a inferiority complex and an identity crisis. I have 7 toons, but I love my engineer above all and can not bear to cripple him in one aspect in favor of another.
    I'm good in all aspects of the game. I am very aware. I am a space and ground pvp player. I am a foundry author. What are you?
    I have met very few decent player personalities in the ground pvp scene. Most of you spew troll banter or are just rude. It is no wonder the ground scene is a mocked minority.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Ummmmm. You know I run Medic. Why would I run that? But hey whatever those voices in your head tell you....maybe you should put the needle down.

    So, I'm curious, what is so broken about science officers on the ground? I don't keep up all that well with ground issues. Is it an old problem that I just am forgetting about, or a new problem I haven't had the ahh...pleasure of experiencing myself?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yupp, I left that match. My words in zone where, "I'm not going to fight a premade who brings 2 of those broken science officers.". I'm not going to punish myself and I'm not going to feed your mistaken ego. My advice to anyone who pugs is to leave if they see something they don't think is fair. I have plenty of good matches, but only when the premades aren't around to ruin the fun. In fact, yesterday a match just became sparring when we realized that we had an opportunity to have a little fun with out you guys around.
    I always Q alone. I am not scared to fight alone. I never see you creeps Q alone. Safety in numbers is not the same thing as skill.

    I know that doff is broken, but as a team there are ways to counter it. Until Cryptic fixes it, it's part of the game. We're not afraid to fight alone. And I do pug during the week when I'm around. We've been beaten by other teams, premade and pugs, before. Because they had teamwork and countered our current strategy. Again, I want to play with my fleet and friends I made. Really what you want is to roll pugs, but justify it by not running a premade. If others can counter broken mechanics, why can't you? Maybe less time on the forums and making youtube videos while tweaked and spending more time learning counters to these things, you'd be better. Truth is, premade/fleetmades will queue. Its an MMO. Guilds exist for a reason. And eventually pugmades will be premades. It's human nature that as ppl become friends they want to pal around. You're just so burnt no one wants to listen to your babble. Sorry you can't make friends.

    What am I?

    I'm a full time student.
    I'm a full time worker.
    I'm a union rep.
    I'm a person that has my own internet.
    I'm a person that has a place to call MY home.
    And I beat my personal demons.

    So, what are you?

    As for getting angry on voice. Well yeah. It's called frustration. We don't like losing, no one does. And when someone is outplaying us, its frustrating. I hate going against pugs because it ends up being a stomp. They are rarely a challenge. Plugging with them is worse, because its frustrating not having structure or teamwork. I've always been a person that gives my all, I know that's a foreign idea to you. So yes, if I'm losing its frustrating.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I hope that the ground pvpers are getting themselves ready for the STO Frontlines TC!!

    There is going to be plenty of ground action. :)

    I don't see much interest in the ground phase unless your tournament plans to ban Cryo Immobilizer Module, -10 Damage Resistance Biochemists duty officers, DoT with Ambush Security Officers, the Dsyon Lockbox laggy Science trait, and the Type 3 Phaser Rifle (or at least limit this to 1 per team).

    If not, the ground matches will turn into cheese festivals. Between the Biochemist duty officer and the Security Officer duty officer, it's possible to kill someone 100x over very easily. No amount of healing will save you and no damage resistance rating is high enough. Cryo Immobilizer Module and the new lockbox Science trait make it that much easier. Both of those abilities lock down the target and make it impossible to fight back while under their effects. The Type 3 Phaser Rifle isn't much of a problem on it's own, but when 2 or more people are using it the ability gets bad quickly. Each attack is dealt twice, meaning there is a 10% chance to stun and a 30% chance to knockback for a total of a 40% chance to disable per shot...which is why a certain fleet spams it. They used to use Omega Autocarbines as well, but that proc got fixed and now respects willpower.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yupp, I left that match. My words in zone where, "I'm not going to fight a premade who brings 2 of those broken science officers.". I'm not going to punish myself and I'm not going to feed your mistaken ego. My advice to anyone who pugs is to leave if they see something they don't think is fair. I have plenty of good matches, but only when the premades aren't around to ruin the fun. In fact, yesterday a match just became sparring when we realized that we had an opportunity to have a little fun with out you guys around.
    I always Q alone. I am not scared to fight alone. I never see you creeps Q alone. Safety in numbers is not the same thing as skill.
    I know what the deal is. I have heard the way some of you can get very angry in voice chat when a match is getting difficult. You can not handle loosing, so you only team Q to ensure an easy win. You aren't interested in having fun or giving someone a good fight. You only want to win hands down. It is not fun in the premades. That is part of the reason I quit. PVP is not fun when you are always guaranteed one of two things: an easy victory or a 40 minute fight through the same door versus another premade.
    If you are so good then why not tone it down and meet the majority of players on their own level. I love my new skill build. I love being able to compete in space and ground. I don't know what is so great about being part of the ground spec minority.
    I think that players who believe they must have a toon for space and a separate one for ground have a inferiority complex and an identity crisis. I have 7 toons, but I love my engineer above all and can not bear to cripple him in one aspect in favor of another.
    I'm good in all aspects of the game. I am very aware. I am a space and ground pvp player. I am a foundry author. What are you?
    I have met very few decent player personalities in the ground pvp scene. Most of you spew troll banter or are just rude. It is no wonder the ground scene is a mocked minority.

    I have to say from experience you are right. Its easy enough to see these hardcore ground fleets are a big reason the queues are so dead. People would rather just not bother with ground then have to join a fleet focused on a relatively small part of the game like ground pvp and have to respec into ground or make a new character just for that.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ...PVP is not fun when you are always guaranteed one of two things: an easy victory or a 40 minute fight through the same door versus another premade...
    I hate that stuff too.
    I love my new skill build. I love being able to compete in space and ground. I don't know what is so great about being part of the ground spec minority.
    I think that players who believe they must have a toon for space and a separate one for ground have a inferiority complex and an identity crisis. I have 7 toons, but I love my engineer above all and can not bear to cripple him in one aspect in favor of another.
    I'm good in all aspects of the game. I am very aware. I am a space and ground pvp player...
    We have always followed that mentality, spec for both. Min/maxing seperate toons for ground or space is for pwning, especially in a game like this one. I think the DEVs realize the mistake of making alts popular and have been making it harder and harder to keep up with them. In Star Wars Galaxies you could only have one toon on a server. That helped prevent over-specializing. Monthly charges helped prevent account spam.
  • mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    I have to say from experience you are right. Its easy enough to see these hardcore ground fleets are a big reason the queues are so dead. People would rather just not bother with ground then have to join a fleet focused on a relatively small part of the game like ground pvp and have to respec into ground or make a new character just for that.

    Thank you, sir.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,149 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    My opinion on the new science trait. Pretty much this.

    The black ball's done nothing wrong.

    Bi shonen.. go write a guest blog about Otha.
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
  • mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I know that doff is broken, but as a team there are ways to counter it. Until Cryptic fixes it, it's part of the game.

    Here we see the truth. It's not skill when you exploit something that you know is not working in a manner that others would consider fair. Things like this keep people out of the ground Q. It is even worse when a whole team of people exploit broken tactics.
    If you are so skilled you would not need such things. If you where confident in your ability you would be as unique as possible opposed to using a cookie cutter build and tactics devised by someone else.
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Here we see the truth. It's not skill when you exploit something that you know is not working in a manner that others would consider fair. Things like this keep people out of the ground Q. It is even worse when a whole team of people exploit broken tactics.

    As broken as it is, and you seem to fail to see this, is that it's counterable. But since you want to be a big bad lone wolf, and not have any type of team work, you don't know it. I want it as nerfed as much as you do. But people are going to use it. And the way to counter it is to run as a team. People are going to grief and beam, and the only way to counter that is to run as a team. What do you do when pugs start picking up on this and it's a pug made? Do you beam then too? Cuz eventually you're just not gonna be able to PvP. But you go ahead and justify preying on pugs by running in pug mades. Cuz that's all you're doing. Hopefully they do put split Qing in soon, just so we don't have to hear your incessant crying. Why don't you try to teaching some pugs, since you're so good in space and ground, and show them how to be challenging and counter these bugs that Cryptic refuses to fix? Of course, that means not talking babble or about how people came from aliens, or snorting Tholians, or asking people who stole you're Chicken sandwich.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    So, I'm curious, what is so broken about science officers on the ground? I don't keep up all that well with ground issues. Is it an old problem that I just am forgetting about, or a new problem I haven't had the ahh...pleasure of experiencing myself?

    The Biochemist DOFF does -10 damage resistance for up to 60 seconds (purple), but it stacks insanely high. It used to not work at all, and now Cryptic went to the other extreme.

    So far, the only thing cleanses it is Battle Strategies. Hopefully Biofilter Sweep on the new medic kit will eventually clear it.

    Wiki link to the mentioned DOFF
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • pokersmith1pokersmith1 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If u see them V-Rex fall in like 10 seconds in Dyson Battlezone, they have had around 100 biochemists stacked on them :P
    Elite Defense Starfleet
    Elite Defense Stovokor
  • nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Biochemist doing what it's doing is annoying but meh. I think it says far more about the state of the game that you can be debuffed to -200% and still tank through it.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The Biochemist DOFF does -10 damage resistance for up to 60 seconds (purple), but it stacks insanely high. It used to not work at all, and now Cryptic went to the other extreme.

    So far, the only thing cleanses it is Battle Strategies. Hopefully Biofilter Sweep on the new medic kit will eventually clear it.

    Wiki link to the mentioned DOFF

    Unfortunately, Battle Strategies does not clear the biochemist debuff, it's a Science buff rather than a Tactical debuff. I've never tested Biofilter sweep, but I do know that the Overwatch Advisor duty officer clears it once upon application.
    nulonu wrote: »
    Biochemist doing what it's doing is annoying but meh. I think it says far more about the state of the game that you can be debuffed to -200% and still tank through it.

    What we need is an Analyst Mk XII with Triage III, Tachyon Harmonics IV, Sonic Pulse III, Anestezine Gas Grenade III, and Nanite Health Monitor II to break the shield tank problem. While we are at it the Tetryon proc needs to be doubled. As for the medic tanking, it would be nice if Cryptic were to improve the Nanoenergy Cell - Anti-Coagulant buffs from 5% to 30% chance. A 25% reduction in healing would be a positive effect when fighting medics.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    We tested that and bio filter sweep doesn't clear the biochemist debuff. I actually had suggested that it be made to to hawk awhile back. On the other hand if it does get limited to stacking 3x like he had mentioned it won't be a big concern anymore.
  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I haven't ground ppvped since launch and back then we just rubber banded around eachother while being one shot by scientists and their auto expose. What it Sounds like now is that separate queues would help a lot. Pugs don't want to fight premades, and premades supposedly don't want to stomp pugs.
  • mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    madmopar wrote: »
    I haven't ground ppvped since launch and back then we just rubber banded around eachother while being one shot by scientists and their auto expose. What it Sounds like now is that separate queues would help a lot. Pugs don't want to fight premades, and premades supposedly don't want to stomp pugs.

    Stomping pugs is a premades bread and butter, but you are correct about needing separate Q's. One that allows teams and one for single players to join for random teams so they can avoid premade groups.
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Unfortunately, Battle Strategies does not clear the biochemist debuff, it's a Science buff rather than a Tactical debuff. I've never tested Biofilter sweep, but I do know that the Overwatch Advisor duty officer clears it once upon application.



    Ah okay. I knew somehow a Tac could clear it. My main class is Science so I'm sometimes vague on other class kits.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    edited by my......
    __________________________________________________

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  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I don't see much interest in the ground phase unless your tournament plans to ban Cryo Immobilizer Module, -10 Damage Resistance Biochemists duty officers, DoT with Ambush Security Officers, the Dsyon Lockbox laggy Science trait, and the Type 3 Phaser Rifle (or at least limit this to 1 per team).

    If not, the ground matches will turn into cheese festivals. Between the Biochemist duty officer and the Security Officer duty officer, it's possible to kill someone 100x over very easily. No amount of healing will save you and no damage resistance rating is high enough. Cryo Immobilizer Module and the new lockbox Science trait make it that much easier. Both of those abilities lock down the target and make it impossible to fight back while under their effects. The Type 3 Phaser Rifle isn't much of a problem on it's own, but when 2 or more people are using it the ability gets bad quickly. Each attack is dealt twice, meaning there is a 10% chance to stun and a 30% chance to knockback for a total of a 40% chance to disable per shot...which is why a certain fleet spams it. They used to use Omega Autocarbines as well, but that proc got fixed and now respects willpower.


    Tira,
    I would like you to look the damping filed trait again. I have good machine so I don't experience that much lag. So it could be bothering people and not me. The DF trait also has a slow p build in are you sure you are not seeing the slow rather than lag. I am asking because I don't experience it, but I also don't experience mortar lag either, which I have herd people complain about. I don't see Cryo imobilizer procing as much and it has become real manageable, just like the DOT doffs.
    320x240.jpg
  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Stomping pugs is a premades bread and butter, but you are correct about needing separate Q's. One that allows teams and one for single players to join for random teams so they can avoid premade groups.

    Once again a post with only opinion, instead of something with content or subsistence. Would love to have some fact or a intelligent conversation about game mechanic, bugs, or tactics. Premades or fleetmades are not the problem. And as far as your separate queue idea, it will never work. The queues having a random team generator could put all experienced players on one side, the you have the same thing you are complaining bout. Also you could have nothing but Dilithium grinders on one side and they will never respawn. Another situation is five players disperse on one team and and the other team sticks together, wait another pug stomp. Here is another situation friends queue up separately and a troll or griefer spawns in and does to like the team, match, or player they are teamed up with so they take off their shields or run into a group of five or beams leaving. The team short handed. Separate queues will not fix anything. While I will say you are at least throwing ideas out this is not going to fix any problem you have complained about, or at least one that has merit.

    The true problem with PvP in STO is it is to small of a community. The ground is even smaller because of limited abilities tied down to kits. Also when people think of Star Trek combat they always think about space first. It would be more awesome if you could specialize you character much like your ship. Being able to customize you armour, kits, weapons and shields with powers would be awesome. But I know this will never happen because the development is not there and lets face it, Cryptic is in it for money, and there is no real money in developing PvP, not with it being a such small portion of the player base.
    320x240.jpg
  • janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Cryo Immobilizer is bs. I have used all my buffs like emg power to shields and hypo while was still freezed and died.
    Game oughtn't to be only for those who play with best build. It ought to run smooth to those who play with minimal settings as well. I play sto on max settings, but still my fps drops when I inside of cloud.
    simeion1 wrote: »
    The true problem with PvP in STO is it is to small of a community. The ground is even smaller because of limited abilities tied down to kits. Also when people think of Star Trek combat they always think about space first. It would be more awesome if you could specialize you character much like your ship. Being able to customize you armour, kits, weapons and shields with powers would be awesome. But I know this will never happen because the development is not there and lets face it, Cryptic is in it for money, and there is no real money in developing PvP, not with it being a such small portion of the player base.
    Didn't expected to see such a nonsense from Hammer member. Craftable kits? Really? There was a thread with "le idea" to remove careers so you can choose any skill. lol'd too. Current system is perfect as it is.
    __________________
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  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    taut0u wrote: »
    Cryo Immobilizer is bs. I have used all my buffs like emg power to shields and hypo while was still freezed and died.
    Game oughtn't to be only for those who play with best build. It ought to run smooth to those who play with minimal settings as well. I play sto on max settings, but still my fps drops when I inside of cloud.

    Didn't expected to see such a nonsense from Hammer member. Craftable kits? Really? There was a thread with "le idea" to remove careers so you can choose any skill. lol'd too. Current system is perfect as it is.

    The craft able kits is a valid option as long as it is done right, some powers should not be together. A kit with tachyon harmonics, triage, exothermic induction, nanite health monitor, and stasis( if it would hold longer) would be to much. Just like a kit with lunge and plasma grenade would be also. It would have to be balanced. You would also be tied down to a airlines still in your current kit. My post was not very indepth but under the right implantation it could become useful. I am not saying let anyone put any ability on any kit.
    320x240.jpg
  • mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Once again a post with only opinion, instead of something with content or subsistence. Would love to have some fact or a intelligent conversation about game mechanic, bugs, or tactics. Premades or fleetmades are not the problem. And as far as your separate queue idea, it will never work.

    You guys are just scared that if there was a random option installed that you would loose your pug stomp matches and be alienated from the community.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,149 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    You guys are just scared that if there was a random option installed that you would loose your pug stomp matches and be alienated from the community.

    will you put fireworks down our pants if we get this random pvp queue or will you leave at the first sign of a sci black ball?
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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