I thought you guys were renaming the Avenger, the Sentinel-class, because you already have the Avenger-class in game. :rolleyes:
Anyhow, now that we got a better look at the ship, I really don't like the design. Shes too far of a departure from Federation designs. It's like the ship team decided to build the Regent out of Legos with a JJ Vengence influence. (So I shall dub her Legoprise 2.0). I can guarantee in the long run, people won't use this skin if we have access to the Regent or Sovereign skins.
As for Stats......figures shes better than the Regent AND the Galaxy-X! Heck, this is what people wanted the Galaxy-X to be for YEARS! Way to spit on the faces of those who bought these ships, Cryptic! This game is becoming more and more P2W, and making people's past purchases worthless without even increasing the Cap to Tier 6! Furthermore, more of a money grab to make these same people to buy the Fleet Version of this new ship! :mad
I actually really like how it looks. Except for that horrible deflector dish, but I can deal with it I think. After seeing the shots from the front someone posted with the Type 6 material, I can live with that nasty dish.
I'm actually excited about this now. I'm going to give it to my eng alt that was just rotting away as a bank.
But the turn rate of 9, is too slow for me ...should be a 12 at least.
You are aware that the highest Fed Cruiser in the game, the Fleet Excelsior, only has an 8? A 9 would make the Avenger the best turning Cruiser the Federation has.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
For one thing, I really hope there is an alternate costume without the pregnant belly option that we also got with the Ody and the Chimera as well as losing the forward swept Nacelles.
"Another modification Eaves wanted to try was sweeping the nacelle struts forward rather than back. He felt this would give the ship a more advanced look, and produced two drawings that showed the difference between his new struts and the traditional version."
"A considerable amount of work was done on this version of the design. "We explored it all the way to putting windows and panel line breakup on it. Mr. Berman saw it and he kind of liked that direction, so we kept going. Then we started doing the top views and Fritz [Zimmerman], who is one of the set designers, came over. He said, 'You know, if you look at it like this, it looks like a big turkey in a pan!' And he was right! We laughed, and when we told Herman he said, 'Oh, my gosh! Get rid of that.' "Putting the struts back said, 'This is an Enterprise.'"
The thing is none of those cruisers, klingon or starfleet, are a match for the more recent releases (lockboxes especially) in terms of shields and shield cap potential. Heck a fleet Mogai has the same shield mod as a fleet regent.
The fleet Mogai is a destroyer, not a cruiser or an escort. The shield mod is appropriate for the ship. When you account for cloaking...eh...perhaps not, but that's true for any of the Romulan Faction ships.
The only lockbox ship with more hull/shields than intended is the Jem'hadar attack ship. Other than that problem, Cryptic has done a great job keeping ship stats in line outside of the Romulan Faction.
You are aware that the highest Fed Cruiser in the game, the Fleet Excelsior, only has an 8? A 9 would make the Avenger the best turning Cruiser the Federation has.
Maybe that is the case, yet if this is supposed to be a "battle" Cruiser, a result of research and developments based on the conflict with various enemies..
Then it would be logical to evaluate the distinct disadvantage federation ships have in terms of maneuverability versus their opponents, and try to improve that area really...and counter that disadvantage.
So it would be more appropriate to compare the turn rate versus Klingon Cruisers rather than other Federation cruisers which were not initially developed for combat...
What good is to have 5 fwd weapon slots when your enemy can stay in your 6?
What good is to have 5 fwd weapon slots when your enemy can stay in your 6?
There are tons of ways to buff Turning, not including the brand new Strategic Maneuvering ability that Cruisers get.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
So it has a split-neck design???
While a split-neck looks good/interesting on the Oberth/Odyssey classes, it just looks rather insipid and ugly on the Avenger class. It feels like the ship guys took what I don't like about the Abram's Enterprise (Nacelles not anywhere 'balanced'), slapped a Sovereign Saucer onto a couple of struts and added that onto a Lego-like hull. Gawd!
Now, if what I saw of the C-Store console is correct, plus now seeing the ship from several angels now, I think a comment I made in the New Avenger Class thread really seems right...
From the Screenshot pic, I don't care for the overall design. I'll need to see a few more overall shots to really get a good feel for it.
But between my GF's first reaction of the screenshot pic and my relooking at Brandon's twitter pic of the deflector dish, I think I have a name for the Avenger: The Remote Control !!!
I know it's late and we're both a bit strung out, but it just came to mind and I think it works.
(Bolded for effect)
Should be interesting tomorrow.
Thank you for the time...
STO CBT Player - 400 day+ Vet, Currently Silver
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
Full, Story-driven, select from start 1-50 Klingon Side
Scrap current Lock Box & Lobi system for something more reasonable
Expand Dil and Rep/Fleet Marks to regular story content
Thanks for a very well written article. I really like the explanation of the design details (are the 'winglets' inspired by the Southwest commercials?).
The STO Ship Team shares details about the process behind designing the upcoming Avenger Class Battle Cruiser in this entry of the Legacy of Romulus News Dev Blog series.
Wow Cryptic never ceases to surprise me, they actually can make uglier ships then the partol escort.
As i said before numerous times before, Cryptics ship designers have absolutely no feeling how to make a Starfleet ship. Just slapping some armor plates on it, making it look as blocky as possible DOES NOT MAKE IT LOOK BETTER.
It doesn't even look dangerous or "cool" at all, it looks just like a clumsy kitbash nothing more. @cryptics designers,
have you ever heard these three words: elegant-fluid-balance ?
Thats how future Starfleet ships should look like, not like 22th century Starships on steroids.
I have made better looking Starfleet ships with LEGO when i was eight years old, lol.
Seriously Cryptic should finally employ some ppl that actually understand the philosopy behind Star Trek, and not some ppl trying to make a Star Wars/BSG or Stargate game.
That sensibility influenced the visual aesthetic of the Avenger. This is a gunship. Taking the 2409 Federation design of traditionally elegant sweeping lines and pushing it toward a more combative style was one of our biggest challenges. The Avenger needed to look aggressive, but still like a Starfleet vessel.
You failed, completely missed the point what starfleet is all about.
Starfleet ships don't need to look military, "cool", dangerous or badass, because starfleet isn't just a generic human sci fi fleet. (no matter how bad Cryptics is trying to make it look like that)
They're essentailly the successors of NASA.
They explore the universe and do not bomb their way through enemy armadas. They build ships to end wars.
That means they are very well capable to fight and win (NOT just flying target practices, as cryptic made most Starfleet cruisers) but they are not build for this purpose alone. And in no way they should look like BSG Battlestars mixed with bad star trek ship designs. Philospohy is shown on the ships shape.
The Federation is NOT THE TERRAN EMPIRE!
But maybe i am asking for too much, maybe it's too complicated i don't know.
What i know is that there are hundreds of people having much more talent and potential to make good Star trek ship designs than cryptics "designers".
Maybe these ppl should get a chance to make some ships, i bet some real good designers would work for half the money Cryptic is giving their "ship designers" right now.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
There are tons of ways to buff Turning, not including the brand new Strategic Maneuvering ability that Cruisers get.
Yes there you are right, it maybe worth it with the new Command system.
Albeit the enemies will have the same....still it it maybe worth it...
I will strongly consider this, I like all other areas of the design, I just do not want to feel let down like other designs ...
Because turn rate is very important in real combat (pvp vs klingons)...and I find Federation handicapped simply because of that...
(Again, the ship Looks awesome, I like it very much, no matter comments against her aesthetics. I just do not want to be disappointed again as to how she plays...)
I don't care what anyone says, that's the most beautiful ship I've seen since I first laid eyes on the Odyssey. Which is ironic, because the sweeping lines of the odyssey makes it look so sexy, but the sharp edges and two tone of this Avenger class makes it look tough. In a good way, sort of like Kelly Hu, she's a 3rd degree Blackbelt in Karate (meaning you shouldn't pick a fight with her unless you're crazy) but she still has a very feminine body with sexy feminine curves.
Keep up the good work.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Maybe that is the case, yet if this is supposed to be a "battle" Cruiser, a result of research and developments based on the conflict with various enemies..
Then it would be logical to evaluate the distinct disadvantage federation ships have in terms of maneuverability versus their opponents, and try to improve that area really...and counter that disadvantage.
So it would be more appropriate to compare the turn rate versus Klingon Cruisers rather than other Federation cruisers which were not initially developed for combat...
What good is to have 5 fwd weapon slots when your enemy can stay in your 6?
I run a high engine power with aux 2damp and can turn almost inside a ship length with the Kamarang retrofit with its 10 turn rate, this one could be interesting maybe its prettier when cloaked. o.O
This will be the first ship I'm going to buy from the Store as long as it features one important feature of a Tactical oriented Cruiser, which is a Commander Engineering boff slot and a Lt. Commander Tactical one. The new torpedo sounds cool, can't wait to see what it does. This ship also apparently has a cloaking device, if the console on Tribble is to be believed.
One thing I really like on this ship is this... VISIBLE WEAPON HARDPOINTS!
I am so tired of seeing all my weapons firing from one random point on the hull (with the exception of dual cannons, they usually have visible emitters), with no regard to firing multiple weapons from multiple hardpoints. Please keep weapons on separate emitters, not firing as a line from one point.
Otherwise, the ship looks interesting, although I can't say I'm a fan of the new swept foward pylons holding the front end of the nacelles. I miss the good old ones from the Sovereign. Swept back, all the way. Maybe they'll release more skins for the ship at some point, even though it looks like this is a standalone ship, instead of the usual triple release.
I run a high engine power with aux 2damp and can turn almost inside a ship length with the Kamarang retrofit with its 10 turn rate, this one could be interesting maybe its prettier when cloaked. o.O
Thank you, yes, the Cloaking capability I just learned of, will it be a Battle Cloak?
Or..something like Defiant/Gal x?
It would assume with new Romulus developments etc, a Battle Cruiser could actually sport a Battle Cloak...
Thank you, yes, the Cloaking capability I just learned of, will it be a Battle Cloak?
Or..something like Defiant/Gal x?
It would assume with new Romulus developments etc, a Battle Cruiser could actually sport a Battle Cloak...
Not a battle cloak. It seems that it won't actually come with the cloak at all. Instead, you have to use the cloak console from the Gal X/Defiant on it.
My Federation Tactical officer is looking forward to dropping her Chel Gret Warship for this puppy. A Federation warship at last (she used to fly the Gal-X but Im not gonna go into that) heres hoping that this stylish (but not pretty) ship can fill the role for doing un-pretty things..:D
Anything that can use DC can use DHC, and Quads as well. Turn rate 9? That sounds decent enough, until you throw some Enhanced RCS Mk XIIs on it :P I might end up flying a Escort Cruiser
Maybe its just me but the K'tinga's turn rate of 11 is noticeably better than the Neghvar's 9 turn rate. Could just be me though. Given the hull desparity the K'tinga should be able to run circles around the Neghvar.
Interesting design, will wait until my Redshirt is patched though so I can have a look at the model. The phaser arrays are really well modelled as are the cannons. I really wish Cryptic could go and revisit all the older ships from launch such as the Luna, Intrepid, Galaxy, Sovereign, Nebula etc and bring the models up to this level of quality. The difference is striking when you put the two next to each other.
Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
Maybe its just me but the K'tinga's turn rate of 11 is noticeably better than the Neghvar's 9 turn rate. Could just be me though. Given the hull desparity the K'tinga should be able to run circles around the Neghvar.
RCS turn rate boost works off a percentage.
30% of 6 is +1.8, making a 7.8
30% of 9 is +2.7, making a 11.7
30% of 11 is +3.3, making a 14.3
Higher base turn rat,e more RCS pushes it, so the turn rate gets increasingly higher.
So of course the 11 feels better than the 9.
I will reinstall "Star Trek: Online" when it comes out.
I am going to call it the "U.S.S. Dark Chakram".
*whoot*
A xena fan, are we? I just finished rewatching that series on netflix, so good.
Anyway, redshirt has patched, everyone can go take a look at her, she's at the very end of the list, or uncheck everything except "other" and the avenger and atrox will be all that's left. (interesting that they didn't put her under the cruiser box)
Yeah... I'd have to get used to it, and I really do hope there are costume variants that might be more appealing to my aesthetics. If not, I shall have to name her the U.S.S. CHIBI, anyone who's seen a chibi gundam vs what the normal one looks like should get the reference, shorter, stubbier, chubbier, completely butchered proportions, lol.
It looks like someone tried to make voyager out of legos and tried to slap more traditional nacelles on her because they didn't like the flippers the designers gave her. And while it currently offends my sensibilities, every time I look at it, it gets a little less ugly... just a little, like... pico-units of ugly less, but still... it will probably grow on me. Especially with a cute name like "Chibi" Or maybe little washu... for you tenchi lovers, lol.
With what? It's not like the KDF has gotten anything comparable.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
Anyhow, now that we got a better look at the ship, I really don't like the design. Shes too far of a departure from Federation designs. It's like the ship team decided to build the Regent out of Legos with a JJ Vengence influence. (So I shall dub her Legoprise 2.0). I can guarantee in the long run, people won't use this skin if we have access to the Regent or Sovereign skins.
As for Stats......figures shes better than the Regent AND the Galaxy-X! Heck, this is what people wanted the Galaxy-X to be for YEARS! Way to spit on the faces of those who bought these ships, Cryptic! This game is becoming more and more P2W, and making people's past purchases worthless without even increasing the Cap to Tier 6! Furthermore, more of a money grab to make these same people to buy the Fleet Version of this new ship! :mad
Oh thank you!!
As I expected then, 5,3 weapon hardpoints, and good mixture of tactical/Engineering BO and Consoles.
It has a good Hull Hit point Base (albeit this is the Fleet version)
But the turn rate of 9, is too slow for me
I'll stay with the Chimera, thanks.
Order of the Silver Star, -OSS-
*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*
I'm actually excited about this now. I'm going to give it to my eng alt that was just rotting away as a bank.
Mine Trap Supporter
For one thing, I really hope there is an alternate costume without the pregnant belly option that we also got with the Ody and the Chimera as well as losing the forward swept Nacelles.
"Another modification Eaves wanted to try was sweeping the nacelle struts forward rather than back. He felt this would give the ship a more advanced look, and produced two drawings that showed the difference between his new struts and the traditional version."
"A considerable amount of work was done on this version of the design. "We explored it all the way to putting windows and panel line breakup on it. Mr. Berman saw it and he kind of liked that direction, so we kept going. Then we started doing the top views and Fritz [Zimmerman], who is one of the set designers, came over. He said, 'You know, if you look at it like this, it looks like a big turkey in a pan!' And he was right! We laughed, and when we told Herman he said, 'Oh, my gosh! Get rid of that.' "Putting the struts back said, 'This is an Enterprise.'"
http://fsd.trekships.org/art/1701-e.html
The fleet Mogai is a destroyer, not a cruiser or an escort. The shield mod is appropriate for the ship. When you account for cloaking...eh...perhaps not, but that's true for any of the Romulan Faction ships.
The only lockbox ship with more hull/shields than intended is the Jem'hadar attack ship. Other than that problem, Cryptic has done a great job keeping ship stats in line outside of the Romulan Faction.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Maybe that is the case, yet if this is supposed to be a "battle" Cruiser, a result of research and developments based on the conflict with various enemies..
Then it would be logical to evaluate the distinct disadvantage federation ships have in terms of maneuverability versus their opponents, and try to improve that area really...and counter that disadvantage.
So it would be more appropriate to compare the turn rate versus Klingon Cruisers rather than other Federation cruisers which were not initially developed for combat...
What good is to have 5 fwd weapon slots when your enemy can stay in your 6?
Order of the Silver Star, -OSS-
*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*
While a split-neck looks good/interesting on the Oberth/Odyssey classes, it just looks rather insipid and ugly on the Avenger class. It feels like the ship guys took what I don't like about the Abram's Enterprise (Nacelles not anywhere 'balanced'), slapped a Sovereign Saucer onto a couple of struts and added that onto a Lego-like hull. Gawd!
Now, if what I saw of the C-Store console is correct, plus now seeing the ship from several angels now, I think a comment I made in the New Avenger Class thread really seems right...
(Bolded for effect)
Should be interesting tomorrow.
Thank you for the time...
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
Going by that shot the thing has the highest shield modifier out of any Cruiser?
Wait, what about the Galaxy X? Have you abandoned that ship completely now? Or can we still expect some kind of revamp for it?
[/SIGPIC]
As i said before numerous times before, Cryptics ship designers have absolutely no feeling how to make a Starfleet ship. Just slapping some armor plates on it, making it look as blocky as possible DOES NOT MAKE IT LOOK BETTER.
It doesn't even look dangerous or "cool" at all, it looks just like a clumsy kitbash nothing more.
@cryptics designers,
have you ever heard these three words: elegant-fluid-balance ?
Thats how future Starfleet ships should look like, not like 22th century Starships on steroids.
I have made better looking Starfleet ships with LEGO when i was eight years old, lol.
Seriously Cryptic should finally employ some ppl that actually understand the philosopy behind Star Trek, and not some ppl trying to make a Star Wars/BSG or Stargate game.
You failed, completely missed the point what starfleet is all about.
Starfleet ships don't need to look military, "cool", dangerous or badass, because starfleet isn't just a generic human sci fi fleet. (no matter how bad Cryptics is trying to make it look like that)
They're essentailly the successors of NASA.
They explore the universe and do not bomb their way through enemy armadas. They build ships to end wars.
That means they are very well capable to fight and win (NOT just flying target practices, as cryptic made most Starfleet cruisers) but they are not build for this purpose alone. And in no way they should look like BSG Battlestars mixed with bad star trek ship designs. Philospohy is shown on the ships shape.
The Federation is NOT THE TERRAN EMPIRE!
But maybe i am asking for too much, maybe it's too complicated i don't know.
What i know is that there are hundreds of people having much more talent and potential to make good Star trek ship designs than cryptics "designers".
Maybe these ppl should get a chance to make some ships, i bet some real good designers would work for half the money Cryptic is giving their "ship designers" right now.
Yes there you are right, it maybe worth it with the new Command system.
Albeit the enemies will have the same....still it it maybe worth it...
I will strongly consider this, I like all other areas of the design, I just do not want to feel let down like other designs ...
Because turn rate is very important in real combat (pvp vs klingons)...and I find Federation handicapped simply because of that...
(Again, the ship Looks awesome, I like it very much, no matter comments against her aesthetics. I just do not want to be disappointed again as to how she plays...)
Order of the Silver Star, -OSS-
*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*
Keep up the good work.
ahh then you shall be a part of the ARC testing group when you reinstall.
I run a high engine power with aux 2damp and can turn almost inside a ship length with the Kamarang retrofit with its 10 turn rate, this one could be interesting maybe its prettier when cloaked. o.O
Thanks for the pic.
Say, you have any clue what this Console Synergy thingi is with the Cloaking Device from the Defiant/Gal-x?
One thing I really like on this ship is this... VISIBLE WEAPON HARDPOINTS!
I am so tired of seeing all my weapons firing from one random point on the hull (with the exception of dual cannons, they usually have visible emitters), with no regard to firing multiple weapons from multiple hardpoints. Please keep weapons on separate emitters, not firing as a line from one point.
Otherwise, the ship looks interesting, although I can't say I'm a fan of the new swept foward pylons holding the front end of the nacelles. I miss the good old ones from the Sovereign. Swept back, all the way. Maybe they'll release more skins for the ship at some point, even though it looks like this is a standalone ship, instead of the usual triple release.
Back in the day it was called "The Gorn Anchor", the tactic is probably still found in your Academy copy of "Space Combat Maneuvers".
Thank you, yes, the Cloaking capability I just learned of, will it be a Battle Cloak?
Or..something like Defiant/Gal x?
It would assume with new Romulus developments etc, a Battle Cruiser could actually sport a Battle Cloak...
Order of the Silver Star, -OSS-
*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*
Not a battle cloak. It seems that it won't actually come with the cloak at all. Instead, you have to use the cloak console from the Gal X/Defiant on it.
Mine Trap Supporter
Maybe its just me but the K'tinga's turn rate of 11 is noticeably better than the Neghvar's 9 turn rate. Could just be me though. Given the hull desparity the K'tinga should be able to run circles around the Neghvar.
Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
RCS turn rate boost works off a percentage.
30% of 6 is +1.8, making a 7.8
30% of 9 is +2.7, making a 11.7
30% of 11 is +3.3, making a 14.3
Higher base turn rat,e more RCS pushes it, so the turn rate gets increasingly higher.
So of course the 11 feels better than the 9.
Probably the compromise to those arguing/begging for the Avenger to be added to the game!
I agree, looks absolutely awesome! I presume that there will be some storyline material added featuring this ship?
A xena fan, are we? I just finished rewatching that series on netflix, so good.
Anyway, redshirt has patched, everyone can go take a look at her, she's at the very end of the list, or uncheck everything except "other" and the avenger and atrox will be all that's left. (interesting that they didn't put her under the cruiser box)
Yeah... I'd have to get used to it, and I really do hope there are costume variants that might be more appealing to my aesthetics. If not, I shall have to name her the U.S.S. CHIBI, anyone who's seen a chibi gundam vs what the normal one looks like should get the reference, shorter, stubbier, chubbier, completely butchered proportions, lol.
It looks like someone tried to make voyager out of legos and tried to slap more traditional nacelles on her because they didn't like the flippers the designers gave her. And while it currently offends my sensibilities, every time I look at it, it gets a little less ugly... just a little, like... pico-units of ugly less, but still... it will probably grow on me. Especially with a cute name like "Chibi" Or maybe little washu... for you tenchi lovers, lol.
With what? It's not like the KDF has gotten anything comparable.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind