I specifically commented on the "children" argument, posting picture of Tasha Yarr, who looks very flat-chested and yet doesn't look like a child. That argument is totally invalid.
It is valid cause the point of what Cryptic have said is that you can make alien characters that looks like childs if you give em a total flat chest, by doing em small, rounded-faced, etc. The only way to conciliate your request with this is not allowing to make alliens small and eliminanting other face tweaks from alien characters, but that'd go against the spirit of your proposal... Or just giving aliens a diferent boob slider, but that'd be too complicated for the unexistent interest Cryptic may have in this request, I'm afraid.
I am making rational and reasonable comments to perhaps get this done. Frankly, I'd rather have the height of alien characters limited to this minimum size, than being forced to play over-sexualized female character as the only one choice for female character, instead of giving me another option how to portrait my character who'd happen to be a female. I find such argument so irrational and not logical, that it hurts to even try to make any sense; as even my son, who is 10 years old would understand the rationality and logic behind it & yet, it seems I might be talking to deaf ears here. Also, rather than speculations, I'd rather see actual developpers to comment on this thread.
If Cryptic is so concerned about the child issue with aliens, then don't allow childish appearances (aka mentioned rounded faces and dwarvish sizes - most canon aliens, including human have set a minimum height anyways, so not really anything new here?) at all... but yeah, making oversexualized females is the lesser of the two evil.. yup, seems legit argument to me...?
But seriously, would love to see some of the dev team to comment, as again, I fail to grasp why they'd be deaf to this, unless they simply want to appeal to teenage male demographic and don't want to give more options to different age group.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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I am making rational and reasonable comments to perhaps get this done. Frankly, I'd rather have the height of alien characters limited to this minimum size, than being forced to play over-sexualized female character as the only one choice for female character, instead of giving me another option how to portrait my character who'd happen to be a female. I find such argument so irrational and not logical, that it hurts to even try to make any sense; as even my son, who is 10 years old would understand the rationality and logic behind it & yet, it seems I might be talking to deaf ears here. Also, rather than speculations, I'd rather see actual developpers to comment on this thread.
If Cryptic is so concerned about the child issue with aliens, then don't allow childish appearances (aka mentioned rounded faces and dwarvish sizes - most canon aliens, including human have set a minimum height anyways, so not really anything new here?) at all... but yeah, making oversexualized females is the lesser of the two evil.. yup, seems legit argument to me...?
But seriously, would love to see some of the dev team to comment, as again, I fail to grasp why they'd be deaf to this, unless they simply want to appeal to teenage male demographic and don't want to give more options to different age group.
Females aren't oversexualized either, you can do normal females in the editor, except for the TRIBBLE, that in the lower case are still noticeable, but not oversexualized... In your case TRIBBLE appear as big cause you have slided up the torso buck, I guess (they appear wider and longer, even with the boob slide at minimum). You maybe could try to dissimulate them by reducing the torso buck, and adding a little stomach and hips to give your character a less 'busty' look...
But yes, the alien excuse is lame, and Cryptic certainly goes for the utilization of TRIBBLE and nice legs to promote its game, like every other mmo, and in the best Star Trek traditions. Or here, or here...
Females aren't oversexualized either, you can do normal females in the editor, except for the TRIBBLE, that in the lower case are still noticeable, but not oversexualized... In your case TRIBBLE appear as big cause you have slided up the torso buck, I guess (they appear wider and longer, even with the boob slide at minimum). You maybe could try to dissimulate them by reducing the torso buck, and adding a little stomach and hips to give your character a less 'busty' look...
But yes, the alien excuse is lame, and Cryptic certainly goes for the utilization of TRIBBLE and nice legs to promote its game, like every other mmo, and in the best Star Trek traditions. Or here, or here...
But the whole point of my character was to go for "butch" (or athletic/muscular to the point of androgynny) look, that's the whole point, my friend. The alien excuse is lame, and that is why I am giving logical arguments; because maybe someone will actually see logic in what I am saying and if anything, may get to see at least some improvement.
Also, if I alter hips size, the character gets huge butt, which.. well, no thanks, just sexualizing my character in another direction. Just saying. This is to say, yes, I've been experimenting with the sliders a lot, to get desired effect, or even closer to it, but to no avail. I'd not be making this thread, if I made a satisfactory result with the current system, as frankly, if there was a way to be satisfied, I wouldn't be bothered to post here; with the risk of being shunned by typical teenager male demographics, who don't see beyond point of their own nose, when it comes to tolerance and more options when it comes to this particular topic.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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Well the character editor in this game is TRIBBLE, very limited (just two face presets per gender, that's a joke). Every man in this game has bear and strong chin... That's lame too. Considering that, no wonder why they used the superman and superwoman base, stereotypal ideal of beauty. Yeah is a shame but don't be bother by trolls, your request is legit and logic, as many others that aren't adressed, I'm afraid.
Why not demand they add a third "I reject gender stereotypes and refuse to identify my plumbing because I am a unique little snowflake" gender option?
Because there wouldn't be any gender stereotypes or expectations in the future. /bold prediction
And even if there was, that fact wouldn't effect the cultural expectations of non-Terran species.
I don't care much for what OP wants. In fact, I'd prefer a bit more sexual dimorphism between males and females than what we're given(besides hair style; that isn't biological). But I do support being able to choose... so you have my support, jodarkrider.
I'd honestly like to see male faces with no stubble. Can't make 'youthful' men look right as-is.
Well the character editor in this game is TRIBBLE, very limited (just two face presets per gender, that's a joke). Every man in this game has bear and strong chin... That's lame too. Considering that, no wonder why they used the superman and superwoman base, stereotypal ideal of beauty. Yeah is a shame but don't be bother by trolls, your request is legit and logic, as many others that aren't adressed, I'm afraid.
The underlined text is my main gripe here, basicly. Games, especially sci-fi games portraying future society, should allow more choices on that, not less. As orangeitis pointed out, quite boldly so, there would be no gender stereotypes or expectations in as advanced society as Trek's. Heck, TNG showed males wearing the "skant" uniform on males, and I was like "wow, wish our society was as open-minded as it is on the show".
Also - I am not bothered by trolls, I am more bothered that trolls would only take a space in the thread, which could end up so derailed, that this topic wouldn't even get a read from anyone from the developper team.
I believe in having a fair choice, especially in a roleplaying game, where I want to portrait my character certain way, but I am so limited, that it could bring hardcore rpg'er to tears. That's why it is so important for me, and why I go lenghts to get this done.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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I'd be surprised if tacofangs (nickname here of a developer artist that usually is very involved with the community) didnt come to here to say something about this. I also know that they were messing lately with female models in the beta servers, so you may get some answer here, I hope.
I'd be surprised if tacofangs (nickname here of a developer artist that usually is very involved with the community) didnt come to here to say something about this. I also know that they were messing lately with female models in the beta servers, so you may get some answer here, I hope.
Well, that's another reason why I went to post this - because I noticed they were altering the female models, so theoretically, I could be heard, if voiced properly, backed by reasons. If the game was done developping, I'd probably not try suggesting this either, but since there are coming changes... yup, here's hope.
Easier to be heard now, than to stay silent and complain afterwards about the issue!
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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Minimal size of the female character, human (well, I have a Betazoid, but I doubt it differs much) is like 1,68 meters. Which is not even close to children...but yeah, I'd rather have small restriction in height of the character, than not having a choice of shape in which my female character comes, when it comes to bust size.
You could also shorten leg and torso length to get a character short enough. I have a Bajoran who I think could pass as a 13-year-old Terran girl because of settings manipulation.
Also, if I alter hips size, the character gets huge butt, which.. well, no thanks, just sexualizing my character in another direction. Just saying. This is to say, yes, I've been experimenting with the sliders a lot, to get desired effect, or even closer to it, but to no avail. I'd not be making this thread, if I made a satisfactory result with the current system, as frankly, if there was a way to be satisfied, I wouldn't be bothered to post here; with the risk of being shunned by typical teenager male demographics, who don't see beyond point of their own nose, when it comes to tolerance and more options when it comes to this particular topic.
Ignore the haters. People can shun you all they want, doesn't change your ability to let your voice be heard.
Also, IMO a 'huge butt' isn't exactly a quality that sexualizes, nor do wide hips or a flat chest. After all, can't a masculine female be sexualized? I've met plenty of guys who love those DFCs.
A bit off-topic though, but I would LOVE for hairstyles to not be restricted by sex. Been wanting to mix that up a bit myself. That has more to do with culture than it does physiology, so if anything, it should be completely unrestricted.
The current bust slider is within the expected range for women. Flat chested children/teenagers being flag officers and commanding their starship would derail the game much worse than staying with the current minimum.
As multiplayer title, STO customization has to tend to the average, in order to appeal to a wide array of people without causing wtf-moments upon each visit of a social zone.
The current bust slider is within the expected range for women. Flat chested children/teenagers being flag officers and commanding their starship would derail the game much worse than staying with the current minimum.
As multiplayer title, STO customization has to tend to the average, in order to appeal to a wide array of people without causing wtf-moments upon each visit of a social zone.
I beg to differ. Women with smaller busts are perfectly normal, mostly those who are athletic tend to be of lesser size. Please, don't impose, not force your fantasies on everyone, this thread is asking for the exact opposite, to make changes, which give people *more* choices.
If smaller bust make you wtf, then well.. I am sorry (for you), but nobody would be forcing you to make such a character, whereas your opinion is based on intolerance and lack of wider insight, is limiting everyone from having a choice - which is exactly the selfish approach I'd rather not see.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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I beg to differ. Women with smaller busts are perfectly normal, mostly those who are athletic tend to be of lesser size. Please, don't impose, not force your fantasies on everyone, this thread is asking for the exact opposite, to make changes, which give people *more* choices.
I only stated, that the current slider is within the explainable range, not that smaller sizes would be unnatural or unrealistic.
However if it comes to forcing fantasies on everyone: That is what your proposal would do.
If smaller bust make you wtf, then well.. I am sorry (for you), but nobody would be forcing you to make such a character, whereas your opinion is based on intolerance and lack of wider insight, is limiting everyone from having a choice - which is exactly the selfish approach I'd rather not see.
Having the choice is fine, as long as it sticks within an acceptable range. The current minimum bust size is more or less the only feature to accentuate every character ingame to be adults. Decrease the minimum size and you open the doors for underage (looking) chars. And I'd say that would have much more of forcing a personal fantasy upon everyone else than the current slider does.
STO is a multiplayer game. How you create your character is not only about your personal taste, but also about what is acceptable for everyone else around. The current slider might be limited, but is acceptable.
Acceptable range for you. That's exactly my issue. You are imposing your limitations, whereas my suggestion offers more choices for everyone. Get off your high horse, please & accept that not everyone, who makes a female character does it to appease male demographic, who want no less than big breasted women, but there are people, who make character to appease their own taste.
Also - Funny, how unrealistically big things are okay for you, even though they look unnatural, and it was even mentioned here, that the biggest ones are unnatural (but because I am not a selfish, self-centered someone, I'd not even think about removing that option for those who like them that way), but when someone wants somethint you find unacceptable, for whatever societal baggage you carry, that's of course a no-no.
For Valoreah:
Well, Tasha's picture, esp the second one is still smaller than what we currently have available. Also, the uniform the character wears, if it's loose, it should even more hide "assets", and not underline them, no matter what uniform the character wears, as it currently is - check my original post where I posted my character in comparison.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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@ schneemann83: Excuse me, but to me it feels mildly offensive telling people that might want to create a female avatar with a smaller chest it would be okay that they can't because they might be mistaken for children.
The female character models in this game are already highly sexualized. Their unique stances, the costumes and body options - actually it's kind of embarassing. And whats the point, even if you could mistake the characters for minors (which basically everything in this game contradicts anyway) - this game does not feature any questionable content. Yeah, on one map on nimbus there are pole dancers. Nothing you don't see in a PG-13 rated movie. In fact, I'm pretty sure I saw a "minor" toon at one time and it's description (back in the days descriptions still worked) said that the character was supposed to be some uber alien that basically could rule the world but decided to join Starfleet. Whatever you think of that but I think it was possible to set the slider to lower settings at one point...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Having the choice is fine, as long as it sticks within an acceptable range. The current minimum bust size is more or less the only feature to accentuate every character ingame to be adults. Decrease the minimum size and you open the doors for underage (looking) chars. And I'd say that would have much more of forcing a personal fantasy upon everyone else than the current slider does.
How do you know what counts as "underage" in 2409? Or for that matter, how can you tell what features are exclusive to "underage"? Last time I checked, pubescent characteristics(or in this case, lack thereof) are in no way shape or form an indicator of an "underage" status. Besides, at the current tailoring settings, we can already make underage-looking characters... at least underage by modern/IRL laws.
STO is a multiplayer game. How you create your character is not only about your personal taste, but also about what is acceptable for everyone else around. The current slider might be limited, but is acceptable.
If someone deems general acceptability to be unacceptable, they have every right to protest that. And STO is within the Star Trek franchise. And Star Trek has ALWAYS been about breaking barriers and stereotypes like that. From an Asian guy put in the driver's seat in TOS to a guy getting knocked up in Enterprise(lol Trip), Trek has always crossed the cultural line of the traditions and values we as a society stubbornly hold to.
Besides, it's not just about culture. The settings should reflect the entire range of what's physically possible, within canon limits(for instance, I'd bet Starfleet has a health policy reducing the number of obesity to nearly zero. Nearly - I'm looking at you, Admiral Kirk)
Hope it underlines what my problem is. No women I posted as an example from Trek looks anywhere as big sized, so please, if you go about your "acceptable", I'll smack you with a newspaper roll.
PS: Can only post limited pictures, so left one as link.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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First, no one is chaning the upper limit. This will not affect anyone's current size setting without their consent.
Secondly, this is not how it works. Just because I get tired of seeing infinite variations on "Picard" for characters and "Enterprise" for ship names that dodge the name filter doesn't 'force' anything on me. This is a game full of complete strangers and this is no different than walking down the street in real life. I don't know where this ideology came from. I can only describe it as "You practicing your rights offends me, therefore you can't do it." That's complete bull-TRIBBLE. If you don't like it, go the other way. No one is walking into your house, tying you to a chair, putting a keyboard in your lap, and forcing your eyes open. Seeing silly or even disturbing things is the price for the freedom to behave and customize the game the way you want to. I surround myself in-game with people who have similar playstyles to mine and avoid those who have incompatible ones. I have yet to have a problem.
2. The child issue
This is TRIBBLE. In CO, I've *seen* people create children using the creator there, rather convincingly. So trying to suddenly use the argument here makes absolutely no sense at all. If this was the case, CO would be the same way, and it's not. While the behavior is disturbing, illegal in most cases, and something I would /report immediately, it is not a valid argument when complete adjustment of player avatars is availible in another game by the same developer.
I've seen things in CO and STO that ranged from eye-roll to "OMG MY EYES! I CAN'T UNSEE IT!"-worthy. However, in light of the fact that I have access to tools that allow me to shape my game experience in ways few other games do, in a universe that I find very compelling, I think this is a fair price and with a minimum effort, I can exclude elements and player expression I don't agree with.
Very constructive and to the point, mister. Posts like yours are not adding anything to the topic & only derail it with nonsense. If I could report it, I would.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Hope it underlines what my problem is. No women I posted as an example from Trek looks anywhere as big sized, so please, if you go about your "acceptable", I'll smack you with a newspaper roll.
No woman in Trek has a body like the Incredible Hulk either.
The minimum isn't unreasonably big, when used on a normally proportioned body.
Look , I can agree with you that more range and more options for everyone would be super.
But be serious. Your toons issues half stem from an inability to grasp certain anatomy facts.
(1) shoulders line up with hips (mostly). Look at your toon.
(2) No One who is built the way you are attempting with the comically large muscles, has a waist that small. It just doesn't happen in nature.
Basically it comes down to, learn to use your sliders and you will be able to reasonably achieve the look you are going for.
Bring in the shoulders.
Tone down those muscle sliders (who is your toon? He Man's cousin.)
Actually give her a stomach.
Also, is that a neck or is that a tree trunk for christmas sake. No actual human has a neck that big to begin with ...
Look on a real person, by tilting their head, ear can touch shoulder. Actual shoulder. try and imagine your toon doing that.
You are complaining about comically big assets, while you yourself have used design elements not unlike He Man cartoons and action figures.
More choice is great, and I actually agree with your point here, but multiple times in this thread, you have been given advice on how to use the character editor in game to acheive something like what you are looking for. You have ignored this advice, or waved it away and continued on restating and restating your point while arguing with trolls.
You have a good point.
You stated it clearly.
Some people will agree and some will disagree and some will offer actual advice and some will Troll you.
But you weaken your point by making it something petty enough to argue with trolls over, and basically ignoring people offering advice.
We get it.
The Costume editor could be better in many ways.
For ALL character types, By the way, not just female human types.
Have a look around for the threads about the changes probably coming by looking at the changes from tribble.
No woman in Trek has a body like the Incredible Hulk either.
The minimum isn't unreasonably big, when used on a normally proportioned body.
I've been playing with the sliders for quite a while to get desired look. To no avail. So it's not like I've not tried nor ignored any advice. Mentioned it here in this topic once, doing it again. No matter how i reduce the shoulders, etc, it won't make it the way I want.
But, to post other lowest bust slider sizes from the guy, who made the post originally, as an example, that it's NOT small, even when set on the lowest bust slider setting:
So, yes, the busts are still huge and my argument stands.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
This reminds me of the Axe commercial about women getting hotter over the last 50 years and guys losing their cool...
Mayhap this is just STOs way of fulfilling said prophecy? I mean it is 400 years later, women are bound to be.... more shapely as a norm.
Well statistics do support that hypothesis, at least here in the states. But jodarkrider did post examples of the lower limit still being relatively close to present-day body shapes.
Also, is that a neck or is that a tree trunk for christmas sake. No actual human has a neck that big to begin with ...
An exteremly cursory google image search for "thick neck" proves this quite incorrect. In fact, compared to those photos, her neck is entirely reasonable.
Comments
It is valid cause the point of what Cryptic have said is that you can make alien characters that looks like childs if you give em a total flat chest, by doing em small, rounded-faced, etc. The only way to conciliate your request with this is not allowing to make alliens small and eliminanting other face tweaks from alien characters, but that'd go against the spirit of your proposal... Or just giving aliens a diferent boob slider, but that'd be too complicated for the unexistent interest Cryptic may have in this request, I'm afraid.
If Cryptic is so concerned about the child issue with aliens, then don't allow childish appearances (aka mentioned rounded faces and dwarvish sizes - most canon aliens, including human have set a minimum height anyways, so not really anything new here?) at all... but yeah, making oversexualized females is the lesser of the two evil.. yup, seems legit argument to me...?
But seriously, would love to see some of the dev team to comment, as again, I fail to grasp why they'd be deaf to this, unless they simply want to appeal to teenage male demographic and don't want to give more options to different age group.
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Females aren't oversexualized either, you can do normal females in the editor, except for the TRIBBLE, that in the lower case are still noticeable, but not oversexualized... In your case TRIBBLE appear as big cause you have slided up the torso buck, I guess (they appear wider and longer, even with the boob slide at minimum). You maybe could try to dissimulate them by reducing the torso buck, and adding a little stomach and hips to give your character a less 'busty' look...
But yes, the alien excuse is lame, and Cryptic certainly goes for the utilization of TRIBBLE and nice legs to promote its game, like every other mmo, and in the best Star Trek traditions. Or here, or here...
Also, if I alter hips size, the character gets huge butt, which.. well, no thanks, just sexualizing my character in another direction. Just saying. This is to say, yes, I've been experimenting with the sliders a lot, to get desired effect, or even closer to it, but to no avail. I'd not be making this thread, if I made a satisfactory result with the current system, as frankly, if there was a way to be satisfied, I wouldn't be bothered to post here; with the risk of being shunned by typical teenager male demographics, who don't see beyond point of their own nose, when it comes to tolerance and more options when it comes to this particular topic.
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"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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And even if there was, that fact wouldn't effect the cultural expectations of non-Terran species.
I don't care much for what OP wants. In fact, I'd prefer a bit more sexual dimorphism between males and females than what we're given(besides hair style; that isn't biological). But I do support being able to choose... so you have my support, jodarkrider.
I'd honestly like to see male faces with no stubble. Can't make 'youthful' men look right as-is.
Why in the world would an innocent question like that not be allowed, or even get anyone offended at all?
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The underlined text is my main gripe here, basicly. Games, especially sci-fi games portraying future society, should allow more choices on that, not less. As orangeitis pointed out, quite boldly so, there would be no gender stereotypes or expectations in as advanced society as Trek's. Heck, TNG showed males wearing the "skant" uniform on males, and I was like "wow, wish our society was as open-minded as it is on the show".
Also - I am not bothered by trolls, I am more bothered that trolls would only take a space in the thread, which could end up so derailed, that this topic wouldn't even get a read from anyone from the developper team.
I believe in having a fair choice, especially in a roleplaying game, where I want to portrait my character certain way, but I am so limited, that it could bring hardcore rpg'er to tears. That's why it is so important for me, and why I go lenghts to get this done.
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"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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Easier to be heard now, than to stay silent and complain afterwards about the issue!
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
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"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Ignore the haters. People can shun you all they want, doesn't change your ability to let your voice be heard.
Also, IMO a 'huge butt' isn't exactly a quality that sexualizes, nor do wide hips or a flat chest. After all, can't a masculine female be sexualized? I've met plenty of guys who love those DFCs.
A bit off-topic though, but I would LOVE for hairstyles to not be restricted by sex. Been wanting to mix that up a bit myself. That has more to do with culture than it does physiology, so if anything, it should be completely unrestricted.
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As multiplayer title, STO customization has to tend to the average, in order to appeal to a wide array of people without causing wtf-moments upon each visit of a social zone.
If smaller bust make you wtf, then well.. I am sorry (for you), but nobody would be forcing you to make such a character, whereas your opinion is based on intolerance and lack of wider insight, is limiting everyone from having a choice - which is exactly the selfish approach I'd rather not see.
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However if it comes to forcing fantasies on everyone: That is what your proposal would do. Having the choice is fine, as long as it sticks within an acceptable range. The current minimum bust size is more or less the only feature to accentuate every character ingame to be adults. Decrease the minimum size and you open the doors for underage (looking) chars. And I'd say that would have much more of forcing a personal fantasy upon everyone else than the current slider does.
STO is a multiplayer game. How you create your character is not only about your personal taste, but also about what is acceptable for everyone else around. The current slider might be limited, but is acceptable.
Acceptable range for you. That's exactly my issue. You are imposing your limitations, whereas my suggestion offers more choices for everyone. Get off your high horse, please & accept that not everyone, who makes a female character does it to appease male demographic, who want no less than big breasted women, but there are people, who make character to appease their own taste.
Also - Funny, how unrealistically big things are okay for you, even though they look unnatural, and it was even mentioned here, that the biggest ones are unnatural (but because I am not a selfish, self-centered someone, I'd not even think about removing that option for those who like them that way), but when someone wants somethint you find unacceptable, for whatever societal baggage you carry, that's of course a no-no.
For Valoreah:
Well, Tasha's picture, esp the second one is still smaller than what we currently have available. Also, the uniform the character wears, if it's loose, it should even more hide "assets", and not underline them, no matter what uniform the character wears, as it currently is - check my original post where I posted my character in comparison.
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The female character models in this game are already highly sexualized. Their unique stances, the costumes and body options - actually it's kind of embarassing. And whats the point, even if you could mistake the characters for minors (which basically everything in this game contradicts anyway) - this game does not feature any questionable content. Yeah, on one map on nimbus there are pole dancers. Nothing you don't see in a PG-13 rated movie. In fact, I'm pretty sure I saw a "minor" toon at one time and it's description (back in the days descriptions still worked) said that the character was supposed to be some uber alien that basically could rule the world but decided to join Starfleet. Whatever you think of that but I think it was possible to set the slider to lower settings at one point...
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No, it's actually the exact opposite of the proposal. Expanding choices is directly antonymous to forcing something onto someone.
How do you know what counts as "underage" in 2409? Or for that matter, how can you tell what features are exclusive to "underage"? Last time I checked, pubescent characteristics(or in this case, lack thereof) are in no way shape or form an indicator of an "underage" status. Besides, at the current tailoring settings, we can already make underage-looking characters... at least underage by modern/IRL laws.
If someone deems general acceptability to be unacceptable, they have every right to protest that. And STO is within the Star Trek franchise. And Star Trek has ALWAYS been about breaking barriers and stereotypes like that. From an Asian guy put in the driver's seat in TOS to a guy getting knocked up in Enterprise(lol Trip), Trek has always crossed the cultural line of the traditions and values we as a society stubbornly hold to.
Besides, it's not just about culture. The settings should reflect the entire range of what's physically possible, within canon limits(for instance, I'd bet Starfleet has a health policy reducing the number of obesity to nearly zero. Nearly - I'm looking at you, Admiral Kirk)
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Females in Trek, few examples
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110202071827/memoryalpha/en/images/4/49/Naomi2394.jpg
Compare to lowest bust size in STO:
Hope it underlines what my problem is. No women I posted as an example from Trek looks anywhere as big sized, so please, if you go about your "acceptable", I'll smack you with a newspaper roll.
PS: Can only post limited pictures, so left one as link.
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1. This forces things on people
First, no one is chaning the upper limit. This will not affect anyone's current size setting without their consent.
Secondly, this is not how it works. Just because I get tired of seeing infinite variations on "Picard" for characters and "Enterprise" for ship names that dodge the name filter doesn't 'force' anything on me. This is a game full of complete strangers and this is no different than walking down the street in real life. I don't know where this ideology came from. I can only describe it as "You practicing your rights offends me, therefore you can't do it." That's complete bull-TRIBBLE. If you don't like it, go the other way. No one is walking into your house, tying you to a chair, putting a keyboard in your lap, and forcing your eyes open. Seeing silly or even disturbing things is the price for the freedom to behave and customize the game the way you want to. I surround myself in-game with people who have similar playstyles to mine and avoid those who have incompatible ones. I have yet to have a problem.
2. The child issue
This is TRIBBLE. In CO, I've *seen* people create children using the creator there, rather convincingly. So trying to suddenly use the argument here makes absolutely no sense at all. If this was the case, CO would be the same way, and it's not. While the behavior is disturbing, illegal in most cases, and something I would /report immediately, it is not a valid argument when complete adjustment of player avatars is availible in another game by the same developer.
I've seen things in CO and STO that ranged from eye-roll to "OMG MY EYES! I CAN'T UNSEE IT!"-worthy. However, in light of the fact that I have access to tools that allow me to shape my game experience in ways few other games do, in a universe that I find very compelling, I think this is a fair price and with a minimum effort, I can exclude elements and player expression I don't agree with.
The green says "Shhhhh"
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The minimum isn't unreasonably big, when used on a normally proportioned body.
Look , I can agree with you that more range and more options for everyone would be super.
But be serious. Your toons issues half stem from an inability to grasp certain anatomy facts.
(1) shoulders line up with hips (mostly). Look at your toon.
(2) No One who is built the way you are attempting with the comically large muscles, has a waist that small. It just doesn't happen in nature.
Basically it comes down to, learn to use your sliders and you will be able to reasonably achieve the look you are going for.
Bring in the shoulders.
Tone down those muscle sliders (who is your toon? He Man's cousin.)
Actually give her a stomach.
Also, is that a neck or is that a tree trunk for christmas sake. No actual human has a neck that big to begin with ...
Look on a real person, by tilting their head, ear can touch shoulder. Actual shoulder. try and imagine your toon doing that.
You are complaining about comically big assets, while you yourself have used design elements not unlike He Man cartoons and action figures.
I'm not joking.
http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_motuc1_1.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130723122803/playstationallstarsfanfictionroyale/images/5/5b/He-man-figures.jpg
Look.
More choice is great, and I actually agree with your point here, but multiple times in this thread, you have been given advice on how to use the character editor in game to acheive something like what you are looking for. You have ignored this advice, or waved it away and continued on restating and restating your point while arguing with trolls.
You have a good point.
You stated it clearly.
Some people will agree and some will disagree and some will offer actual advice and some will Troll you.
But you weaken your point by making it something petty enough to argue with trolls over, and basically ignoring people offering advice.
We get it.
The Costume editor could be better in many ways.
For ALL character types, By the way, not just female human types.
Have a look around for the threads about the changes probably coming by looking at the changes from tribble.
Just a few thoughts
But, to post other lowest bust slider sizes from the guy, who made the post originally, as an example, that it's NOT small, even when set on the lowest bust slider setting:
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7113/screenshot2013040818124.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4484/screenshot2013040818123.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5849/screenshot2013040818172.jpg
So, yes, the busts are still huge and my argument stands.
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Ok, I must admit that the anatomy of Betazoid primates has not been one of my fields of study. I could be wrong here.
Mayhap this is just STOs way of fulfilling said prophecy? I mean it is 400 years later, women are bound to be.... more shapely as a norm.
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An exteremly cursory google image search for "thick neck" proves this quite incorrect. In fact, compared to those photos, her neck is entirely reasonable.
You had a point about the shoulder/hip/waist alignment/proportion.
Your post fails here, though.