Just read that Geko thinks the K'Vort is a bad idea because it's size is not consistent (hello USS Defiant, apparently your size variance was not an issue)
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
That and the Defiant has a hell of a lot more background info on it than the Defiant since the K'vort is not a hero ship and the Defiant is.
That said though I would be happy with any ship that is not another cruiser variant.
Rivera invalidated his OWN argument over the K'Vort....
The K'Vort (1:00:57)- "The K?Vort? it?s just a big B'Rel. Right? So I'm not going to make a Negh'Var-sized B'Rel. If you look up the sizes of the B?Rel and? they?re just all over the place. They were never consistent in the show. What we decided to take out of that for 2409, you started with the B?Rel and you get bigger and bigger Birds-of-Prey. Making a Raider that huge is just, I wouldn?t be unable to justify a B'Rel/Raider turnrate for a ship that big. So, no. Whether or not we?ll call something a K?Vort? maybe?
K'vort = Big B'Rel
You start game with a B'rel and get "bigger and bigger" BoP
He can't justify the turn rate of a BoP that big.....
So why do the high end BoP NOT have a turn rate issue again?
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
One man's iconic ship is another man's m'eh.
My point, which you glossed over, is that the Defiant had size variances between its many episodes as much as the K'Vort for its few, but the Defiant made it into a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction. The K'Vort is a recognised Klingon ship name (and ship type, regardless of size issues) and deserves to be in a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction as much as the Defiant does. Using size variances as an excuse not to put a ship in game, for any faction, is a lazy excuse and deserving of derision.
For many die-hard (and casual, like myself) fans of the Klingons, not having a K'Vort is a thorny issue. Giving an excuse which has already been ignored for the Defiant is hardly likely to make KDF fans happy.
I normally respect your posts, Cosmic, but not this one.
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Of course the difference here is that the K'vort is in 3 episodes, total screen time less then 3 minutes, while the Defiant is in about 100 episodes. There's a massive difference in iconic stature there.
Ah, so it's the identical discussion we had regarding the Ambassador all over again.:rolleyes:
Oh, BTW when we count all "big Bird of Prey" episodes we end up with a whole lot more than 3.;)
It's also noteworth they mentioned the class in "The Path to 2409"...only to then say "nah, not in STO"...but then they did the same with the IKS Gorkon too.
My point, which you glossed over, is that the Defiant had size variances between its many episodes as much as the K'Vort for its few, but the Defiant made it into a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction. The K'Vort is a recognised Klingon ship name (and ship type, regardless of size issues) and deserves to be in a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction as much as the Defiant does. Using size variances as an excuse not to put a ship in game, for any faction, is a lazy excuse and deserving of derision.
For many die-hard (and casual, like myself) fans of the Klingons, not having a K'Vort is a thorny issue. Giving an excuse which has already been ignored for the Defiant is hardly likely to make KDF fans happy.
I normally respect your posts, Cosmic, but not this one.
I didn't gloss over your point, as it wasn't relevant to what I was replying to.
Trek is a mish-mash, but that doesn't mean somethings aren't iconic and so must be in a Trek game. DS9 was all over the place in size too when compared to various ships in the series but the game would feel very empty if we didn't include DS9 because of that. IE, it's too iconic to leave out no matter how much trouble it was putting it into the game.
I'm not arguing against the K'vort. I'd be perfectly happy if the KDF Faction received 20 new ships and 20 new costumes. I'm simply saying there's a difference in iconic stature to Trek fans between the Defiant and K'vort, and so it's logical to assume that Cryptic would put the extra effort into the Defiant without giving it any thought. It's like your comparing gold to lead in your example.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It's also noteworth they mentioned the class in "The Path to 2409"...only to then say "nah, not in STO"...but then they did the same with the IKS Gorkon too.
Lots of ships are mentioned in the Path that aren't in the game. Heck, lots of ships are in the game that aren't available to players. Just go look at all the Typhoon and Jupiter posts over the years. Talking about, or even showing it in game, doesn't mean Cryptic is willing to put-forth the effort to make it.
I've often wondered if a KDF pre-order/kickstarter would be worthwhile. Cryptic would supply the stats and sketch and then the KDF players would pre-pay for the ship, or uniform, or whatever. If enough pre-paid it would go into production. That would give Cryptic a financial justification to put those 20 days into making whatever. And it also help to establish that the KDF is willing to buy things. Cryptic needs to get over the gun-shy idea of getting burned over previous ship. This might be the first step to getting over that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I've often wondered if a KDF pre-order/kickstarter would be worthwhile. Cryptic would supply the stats and sketch and then the KDF players would pre-pay for the ship, or uniform, or whatever. If enough pre-paid it would go into production. That would give Cryptic a financial justification to put those 20 days into making whatever. And it also help to establish that the KDF is willing to buy things. Cryptic needs to get over the gun-shy idea of getting burned over previous ship. This might be the first step to getting over that.
It would also seal the mausoleum once and for all about Klingons not buying ships excuse, making any future "klingons don't sell" argument a half-arsed Dev excuse for them to NOT put any of the other IP ships in the game that should be there.... Like the ENT era BoP... or the D12... or a D5 and Classic D7 variant...
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
It would also seal the mausoleum once and for all about Klingons not buying ships excuse, making any future "klingons don't sell" argument a half-arsed Dev excuse for them to NOT put any of the other IP ships in the game that should be there.... Like the ENT era BoP... or the D12... or a D5 and Classic D7 variant...
The D12 is physically identical to the B'rel as it is represented in the game and the clasic D7 is in the game as well.
It would also seal the mausoleum once and for all about Klingons not buying ships excuse, making any future "klingons don't sell" argument a half-arsed Dev excuse for them to NOT put any of the other IP ships in the game that should be there.... Like the ENT era BoP... or the D12... or a D5 and Classic D7 variant...
First, let me say that I completely understand Cryptic's point. They have access to the one thing we on the forum don't have: sales data. Cryptic knows exactly how many T1 through T5 Klingon ships have been sold - as well as how many T5.5 Fleet ships. They're not guessing how well something would sell like we are. They have history to show them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be willing to take some chances, but it's a tough economy and I can understand them wanting to play it safe. There's no such thing as a perfect ship for everyone and no matter what Cryptic makes for the KDF someone's going to complain about how it sucks - just like people do about Fed ships like the Kumari, Avenger, etc. That's why I think the pre-sale/Kickstarter idea might be the best avenue.
Second, things like the ENT era BoP or D5 would end up being T1 or T2 ships just like the existing Connie, NX, Exeter, etc. So we'd have Fed players screaming for T5 Connies and T5 NXs and KDF players screaming for T5 D5, etc. Just like everyone else in the game, the KDF aren't going to get the cake and be allowed to eat it too. Many of their classic ships aren't going to be end-game ships either and the KDF will be just as disappointed as the Fed players are.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Stop asking for stuff that's already there it makes the KDF players look silly.
K't'inga is a MODIFIED D7 varaint.... Always has been, always will be.
Most TNG era BoP are the same B'Rel model, sure. but that doens't mean they don't deserve a bit of uniqueness... like a reskin.... Or negates the fact that the D12 only went out of service(for which the B'Rel was introduced) because of a faulty plasma-coil(BoP with it's own Vent Plasma console anyone?)
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
First, let me say that I completely understand Cryptic's point. They have access to the one thing we on the forum don't have: sales data. Cryptic knows exactly how many T1 through T5 Klingon ships have been sold - as well as how many T5.5 Fleet ships. They're not guessing how well something would sell like we are. They have history to show them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be willing to take some chances, but it's a tough economy and I can understand them wanting to play it safe. There's no such thing as a perfect ship for everyone and no matter what Cryptic makes for the KDF someone's going to complain about how it sucks - just like people do about Fed ships like the Kumari, Avenger, etc. That's why I think the pre-sale/Kickstarter idea might be the best avenue.
Second, things like the ENT era BoP or D5 would end up being T1 or T2 ships just like the existing Connie, NX, Exeter, etc. So we'd have Fed players screaming for T5 Connies and T5 NXs and KDF players screaming for T5 D5, etc. Just like everyone else in the game, the KDF aren't going to get the cake and be allowed to eat it too. Many of their classic ships aren't going to be end-game ships either and the KDF will be just as disappointed as the Fed players are.
I never said we should have T5 versions.... I just think it's rediculous to have them add the NX and Connie and NOT add unique low-tier hard-core klingon buys like an ENT BoP or a D5/D7 Battle Crusier.
I agree that they have 3 years of sales data.... and that data hasn't changed since they went F2P, meaning that most of the players who Play KDF have already stuck their cash-filled hands into cryptic's moneypot... with that and the NON release of any new zen-store KDF ships over the past year and more(aside from the KDF Tutorial/T1 ones which is a farce because MOST KDF are level 50 and already own the ship with the plasma coil anyway) they really have no general excuse to blanket statement "KDF don't buy ships."
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
I never said we should have T5 versions.... I just think it's rediculous to have them add the NX and Connie and NOT add unique low-tier hard-core klingon buys like an ENT BoP or a D5/D7 Battle Crusier.
Wasn't part of the excuse the KDF made for low sales from the new T1-T4 ships Cryptic sold with FTP was that they were low-Tier and players wanted end-game ships? Now you're saying you'd be happy to get more T1 and T2 ships? You might want to talk to the rest of your Faction. I think they're going to disagree with you.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Wasn't part of the excuse the KDF made for low sales from the new T1-T4 ships Cryptic sold with FTP was that they were low-Tier and players wanted end-game ships? Now you're saying you'd be happy to get more T1 and T2 ships? You might want to talk to the rest of your Faction. I think they're going to disagree with you.
look at it this way... they could make the ships and then add them to the FIRST few KDF Bundles(not 3-pack)... a unique ship(low tier), Unique bridge, New Clothes, Much like the NX or TOS bundles....
Sure people can buy the ships separately... but the Bundle would have the "good stuff"
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
look at it this way... they could make the ships and then add them to the FIRST few KDF Bundles(not 3-pack)... a unique ship(low tier), Unique bridge, New Clothes, Much like the NX or TOS bundles....
Sure people can buy the ships separately... but the Bundle would have the "good stuff"
That sounds like a good idea. Sneak some crappy ships in with a bunch of other stuff. I'd go for that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Most TNG era BoP are the same B'Rel model, sure. but that doens't mean they don't deserve a bit of uniqueness... like a reskin.... Or negates the fact that the D12 only went out of service(for which the B'Rel was introduced) because of a faulty plasma-coil(BoP with it's own Vent Plasma console anyone?)
So you...something.
You don't know what or how but it should have something to do with the D12.
They're not guessing how well something would sell like we are. They have access to the one thing we on the forum don't have: sales data. Cryptic knows exactly how many T1 through T5 Klingon ships have been sold - as well as how many T5.5 Fleet ships.
Only that Cryptics data is irrelevant due to it being based on year old stuff, the Trabant does not sell? Really? Who'd have thought that?:rolleyes:
First, let me say that I completely understand Cryptic's point. They have access to the one thing we on the forum don't have: sales data. Cryptic knows exactly how many T1 through T5 Klingon ships have been sold - as well as how many T5.5 Fleet ships. They're not guessing how well something would sell like we are. They have history to show them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be willing to take some chances, but it's a tough economy and I can understand them wanting to play it safe. There's no such thing as a perfect ship for everyone and no matter what Cryptic makes for the KDF someone's going to complain about how it sucks - just like people do about Fed ships like the Kumari, Avenger, etc. That's why I think the pre-sale/Kickstarter idea might be the best avenue.
Second, things like the ENT era BoP or D5 would end up being T1 or T2 ships just like the existing Connie, NX, Exeter, etc. So we'd have Fed players screaming for T5 Connies and T5 NXs and KDF players screaming for T5 D5, etc. Just like everyone else in the game, the KDF aren't going to get the cake and be allowed to eat it too. Many of their classic ships aren't going to be end-game ships either and the KDF will be just as disappointed as the Fed players are.
Really? one of the two original factions in the game needs a kick starter program to encourage the dev team to do their job, really?
So what was the excuse for never adding any additional kdf uniforms to the c-store for the past 3 yrs, I see tons of players wearing the kdf warriors skirt that cost waaay more than a regular fed uniform unlock since they stuck it in the lobi store but only kdf players can buy them. Before the lobi price reduction those character unlocks cost 150-200 lobi depending on which you bought. I wonder what their metrics show about that?
Apparently those sales figures aren't relevant thought right?
I wonder what their metrics show about that?
Apparently those sales figures aren't relevant thought right?
As much as I hate to say it, I must... Not when you realize that for most of those years the KDF were a mystical 20% of the playerbase.
I know it can be an emotionally difficult concept to understand, as you clearly love your Faction, but if Cryptic has the option of selling to 80,000 people or 20,000 people they're going to choose 80,000 every single time - especially when they only have enough manpower to do one or the other. For Cryptic it was purely a business choice, not an emotional choice.
No one here is happy with the game; not Fed players, not KDF players, not Rom players. It took Cryptic over 3 years to get its manpower back to where it was at launch. It's at this point, nearly 4 years in, that Cryptic feels confident enough to hire a 3rd ship artist. As a company they've has been struggling a long time.
Cryptic isn't Bioware. They can't throw away $5 million on a SWTOR hunch because they know they have ME 4 coming out next year that will make them $250 million. A prepay plan makes sense. It gives the KDF a chance to put their money where their mouth is and it gives Cryptic a good idea of what the KDF fan-base is capable of if they're given a chance. And it's certainly a better idea then just doing nothing, don't you think?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
and... they can't justify making more KDF ships that the KDF would pay for and play, but they can justify making more ships that the UFP can shoot at, but never own and never be able to pay for, and that makes financial sense?
Forget the part about wanting some new KDF-playable assets... aren't you UFP'ers tired of shooting at the same set of KDF ships all the time without ever seeing anything different?
Forget the part about wanting some new KDF-playable assets... aren't you UFP'ers tired of shooting at the same set of KDF ships all the time without ever seeing anything different?
You do realize that most* Fed players basically stop shooting at KDF ships around level 16? That's the point where the Fed players move into Romulan space; and then they later go on to fight True Way, Mirror Universe, Undine, Borg, etc. After level 16 there's, maybe, a handful of encounters where a Fed ever fights a KDF again.
* most is indicative of the fact that the majority of Fed players don't PvP in STO.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
You do realize that most* Fed players basically stop shooting at KDF ships around level 16? That's the point where the Fed players move into Romulan space; and then they later go on to fight True Way, Mirror Universe, Undine, Borg, etc. After level 16 there's, maybe, a handful of encounters where a Fed ever fights a KDF again.
* most is indicative of the fact that the majority of Fed players don't PvP in STO.
Considering that it is the KDF that is the UFP's long-time adversary, no matter how much mutual respect they have earned at times with temporary alliances, that is a pretty sad thing.
To me, that is all the more reason why more KDF ships are needed.
Considering that it is the KDF that is the UFP's long-time adversary, no matter how much mutual respect they have earned at times with temporary alliances, that is a pretty sad thing.
To me, that is all the more reason why more KDF ships are needed.
-- Smoov
The KDF were unfriendly, though never at war with the Federation throughout Enterprise and TOS. IE, a total of 7 seasons. They were allies with the Federation throughout TNG, DS9, and Voyager: a total of 21 seasons. The KDF have been allies far longer then they have been foes throughout canon.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Without looking at just the TV series and including the time between TOS and Ds9 end, how long was the adversarial situation?
Not that it really matters in STO or changes the fact that the KDF faction is still lacking in many areas such Costume, game balanced ships and the other fiddly stuff that players enjoy buying.
I've been disenchanted for years and have run the take for close to two.
I don't want any KDF exclusive content, just fair and balanced releases. There are three factions, so if you release a ship or something special for one, you better damn well be releasing something of equal value to the other two.
I've noticed that the FED has two types of five forward weapon ships now, so where is the KDF answer to this? Nothing fair and balanced in STO. Never has been, never will be.
The last ten console zen ship released to the KDF was nearly two years ago...
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Actually I'm running out of ways to convey that I'm trying to make sense out of your post as hard as I can. But I'm coming up blank.
Your idea with the D12 can mean...well it could mean just about everything.
We also don't really know whether D12 is actually a Klingon designation (probably not) and actually what for the Vulcans and later Starfleet call KDF ships.
So at worst your proposal can mean you want a ship called the way the enemy does with a special ability that randomly activates cloak in the middle of the battle and gets the player killed. YIKES, I know you don't want that.
On the other hand had your idea been something like this:
"We know from Star Trek: Generations that the plasma coil is an important part of the cloaking device. While this was a serious problem in the movie, let's turn it to our advantage.
Console Special Ability: Hyper Charged Plasma Coil - allows the ship to fade much faster into full cloak when used and also drastically improves stealth value for the first 5-10 seconds. Good for better hit'n fade attacks."
I would have been all ears and cranial ridges over such an idea.
But what you describe is so vague I must guess and guess and end up with nothing.
I'm all for new ideas, new ships etc. Heck over the last couple of years I've probably been one of the most annoying ship proposal guys on the KDF forums.
But please when you make a proposal don't leave people guessing too much.
After asking again it gets tideous and...I'm not allowed more than a limited number of "confused" emotes per post.
Actually I'm running out of ways to convey that I'm trying to make sense out of your post as hard as I can. But I'm coming up blank.
Your idea with the D12 can mean...well it could mean just about everything.
We also don't really know whether D12 is actually a Klingon designation (probably not) and actually what for the Vulcans and later Starfleet call KDF ships.
So at worst your proposal can mean you want a ship called the way the enemy does with a special ability that randomly activates cloak in the middle of the battle and gets the player killed. YIKES, I know you don't want that.
On the other hand had your idea been something like this:
"We know from Star Trek: Generations that the plasma coil is an important part of the cloaking device. While this was a serious problem in the movie, let's turn it to our advantage.
Console Special Ability: Hyper Charged Plasma Coil - allows the ship to fade much faster into full cloak when used and also drastically improves stealth value for the first 5-10 seconds. Good for better hit'n fade attacks."
I would have been all ears and cranial ridges over such an idea.
But what you describe is so vague I must guess and guess and end up with nothing.
I'm all for new ideas, new ships etc. Heck over the last couple of years I've probably been one of the most annoying ship proposal guys on the KDF forums.
But please when you make a proposal don't leave people guessing too much.
After asking again it gets tideous and...I'm not allowed more than a limited number of "confused" emotes per post.
Sweety... You too can be accused of the same thing and not just in answering any questions but in your responses.
My proposal was that you could have lower level ships such as the D12 and D7(and no we're never told if those are KDF classifications or FED ones) spruce them up with names and consoles based on their on-screen presence(K't'inga was a modified variant of the 7, i'm talking about the classic grey and exposed green nacells) but put these classic variants into bundle packs with the ship, a bridge, some clothes... maybe a weapon or two(kinda like the TOS or ENT bundles)
also I really like that idea for a console but that should be on a better BoP...
I was thinking the D12 should have a console that once the ship decloaks it has to vent built-up plasma(say a quarter of the time/damage/hold of engineering EWP) before it can cloak again
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Not that it really matters in STO or changes the fact that the KDF faction is still lacking in many areas such Costume, game balanced ships and the other fiddly stuff that players enjoy buying.
I can understand the business reasons behind them not making any KDF stuff for KDF players to buy... why Idon't understand is why they haven't done anything to change ths situation so the KDF can get new stuff to buy.
For example, why not start making generic packs of say...boots, gloves, visor, headsets, etc, that can be used by all characters regardless of faction? It seems like such an easy way to please everyone and yet they ignore it. Its kinda baffling tbh.
I also get that ships are their big cash cows, so it'd be hard for them to justify working on a low selling KDF ship instead of a hopeful future scimi/avenger/ lockbox ship. But surely they could get someone to spend a day or two working out stats for the fleet version of more of their existing ships and then adding them to the system? KDF ships are fairly balanced so I can't imagine most would need more of a modification beyond +1 console, +10% shields/hull? Naturally i'd expect the more popular ships to get the iconic's treatment.... ie, be made useless so as to promote more lockbox sales (why else would it be that the Defiant, Galaxy, and Intrepid all get useless fleet versions, the fleet defiant doesn't even get 10% extra shields instead getting the questionable fifth tac console). So maybe finally getting fleet versions would be more bittersweet than happy.
As a sidenote, they may be wondering what to do now. What can they bring out for the KDF that will be balanced and still be desirable/profitable? Their monetization system relies on ship sales, which should be one of the things a character least buys. Its a big mess but one that is unlikely to change. Their focus on ship, ships, ships leaves them backed into a corner when they want to push something new. they seem to have gotten a clue as to how overpowered they made the roms, I suspect mostly because they realized how players flying ships like the scimitar are unlike to buy anything less.... so here comes the avenger! Not as powerful as the scimitar but with a familiar and much beloved cruiser shape and an upgrade to all cruisers to make them more desirable!
I'm surprised they haven't gotten around to making generic ships for sale to all factions outside of lockboxes yet. Or maybe that's part of the oversight CBS has, they said yes to a generic romulan rebel alliance but no to generic ships for all?
They seem to have gotten a clue as to how overpowered they made the rom ships, overpowered in PvP but generally less than desirable in PvE.... how did PvE favoring Cryptic even get into that situation anyway? Was it the same "its KEWL!!!" mentality that seems to have brought us space dinosaurs? What's next a spock's brain game mechanic?
For example, why not start making generic packs of say...boots, gloves, visor, headsets, etc, that can be used by all characters regardless of faction? It seems like such an easy way to please everyone and yet they ignore it. Its kinda baffling tbh.
My understanding is that the Fed, KDF, and Rom characters all use a different model base, so it's not just the same model with a different face. Thus you can't just use any uniform on any species. Each piece needs to be built for each model. Thus making "generic" boots means the artist must make them 3 times, once for each model. IE, 3 times the work.
I'm surprised they haven't gotten around to making generic ships for sale to all factions outside of lockboxes yet. Or maybe that's part of the oversight CBS has, they said yes to a generic romulan rebel alliance but no to generic ships for all?
My understanding here is that CBS only allows out-of-Faction ships if they're "rare;" and since Lockboxes drop at a rate below 1% that makes the fairly rare - and an 800 Lobi ship is, essentially, $250.00 to buy, making them quite rare as well compared to the overall player-base.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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That and the Defiant has a hell of a lot more background info on it than the Defiant since the K'vort is not a hero ship and the Defiant is.
That said though I would be happy with any ship that is not another cruiser variant.
Rivera invalidated his OWN argument over the K'Vort....
K'vort = Big B'Rel
You start game with a B'rel and get "bigger and bigger" BoP
He can't justify the turn rate of a BoP that big.....
So why do the high end BoP NOT have a turn rate issue again?
One man's iconic ship is another man's m'eh.
My point, which you glossed over, is that the Defiant had size variances between its many episodes as much as the K'Vort for its few, but the Defiant made it into a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction. The K'Vort is a recognised Klingon ship name (and ship type, regardless of size issues) and deserves to be in a game with a Fed faction and KDF faction as much as the Defiant does. Using size variances as an excuse not to put a ship in game, for any faction, is a lazy excuse and deserving of derision.
For many die-hard (and casual, like myself) fans of the Klingons, not having a K'Vort is a thorny issue. Giving an excuse which has already been ignored for the Defiant is hardly likely to make KDF fans happy.
I normally respect your posts, Cosmic, but not this one.
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Ah, so it's the identical discussion we had regarding the Ambassador all over again.:rolleyes:
Oh, BTW when we count all "big Bird of Prey" episodes we end up with a whole lot more than 3.;)
It's also noteworth they mentioned the class in "The Path to 2409"...only to then say "nah, not in STO"...but then they did the same with the IKS Gorkon too.
Trek is a mish-mash, but that doesn't mean somethings aren't iconic and so must be in a Trek game. DS9 was all over the place in size too when compared to various ships in the series but the game would feel very empty if we didn't include DS9 because of that. IE, it's too iconic to leave out no matter how much trouble it was putting it into the game.
I'm not arguing against the K'vort. I'd be perfectly happy if the KDF Faction received 20 new ships and 20 new costumes. I'm simply saying there's a difference in iconic stature to Trek fans between the Defiant and K'vort, and so it's logical to assume that Cryptic would put the extra effort into the Defiant without giving it any thought. It's like your comparing gold to lead in your example.
I've often wondered if a KDF pre-order/kickstarter would be worthwhile. Cryptic would supply the stats and sketch and then the KDF players would pre-pay for the ship, or uniform, or whatever. If enough pre-paid it would go into production. That would give Cryptic a financial justification to put those 20 days into making whatever. And it also help to establish that the KDF is willing to buy things. Cryptic needs to get over the gun-shy idea of getting burned over previous ship. This might be the first step to getting over that.
It would also seal the mausoleum once and for all about Klingons not buying ships excuse, making any future "klingons don't sell" argument a half-arsed Dev excuse for them to NOT put any of the other IP ships in the game that should be there.... Like the ENT era BoP... or the D12... or a D5 and Classic D7 variant...
The D12 is physically identical to the B'rel as it is represented in the game and the clasic D7 is in the game as well.
http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7585/fleetktinga.jpg
Stop asking for stuff that's already there it makes the KDF players look silly.
Second, things like the ENT era BoP or D5 would end up being T1 or T2 ships just like the existing Connie, NX, Exeter, etc. So we'd have Fed players screaming for T5 Connies and T5 NXs and KDF players screaming for T5 D5, etc. Just like everyone else in the game, the KDF aren't going to get the cake and be allowed to eat it too. Many of their classic ships aren't going to be end-game ships either and the KDF will be just as disappointed as the Fed players are.
K't'inga is a MODIFIED D7 varaint.... Always has been, always will be.
Most TNG era BoP are the same B'Rel model, sure. but that doens't mean they don't deserve a bit of uniqueness... like a reskin.... Or negates the fact that the D12 only went out of service(for which the B'Rel was introduced) because of a faulty plasma-coil(BoP with it's own Vent Plasma console anyone?)
I never said we should have T5 versions.... I just think it's rediculous to have them add the NX and Connie and NOT add unique low-tier hard-core klingon buys like an ENT BoP or a D5/D7 Battle Crusier.
I agree that they have 3 years of sales data.... and that data hasn't changed since they went F2P, meaning that most of the players who Play KDF have already stuck their cash-filled hands into cryptic's moneypot... with that and the NON release of any new zen-store KDF ships over the past year and more(aside from the KDF Tutorial/T1 ones which is a farce because MOST KDF are level 50 and already own the ship with the plasma coil anyway) they really have no general excuse to blanket statement "KDF don't buy ships."
look at it this way... they could make the ships and then add them to the FIRST few KDF Bundles(not 3-pack)... a unique ship(low tier), Unique bridge, New Clothes, Much like the NX or TOS bundles....
Sure people can buy the ships separately... but the Bundle would have the "good stuff"
In other words you actually want a corrected K't'inga and not D7 since the D7 is correct?
So you...something.
You don't know what or how but it should have something to do with the D12.
Only that Cryptics data is irrelevant due to it being based on year old stuff, the Trabant does not sell? Really? Who'd have thought that?:rolleyes:
Really? one of the two original factions in the game needs a kick starter program to encourage the dev team to do their job, really?
So what was the excuse for never adding any additional kdf uniforms to the c-store for the past 3 yrs, I see tons of players wearing the kdf warriors skirt that cost waaay more than a regular fed uniform unlock since they stuck it in the lobi store but only kdf players can buy them. Before the lobi price reduction those character unlocks cost 150-200 lobi depending on which you bought. I wonder what their metrics show about that?
Apparently those sales figures aren't relevant thought right?
I know it can be an emotionally difficult concept to understand, as you clearly love your Faction, but if Cryptic has the option of selling to 80,000 people or 20,000 people they're going to choose 80,000 every single time - especially when they only have enough manpower to do one or the other. For Cryptic it was purely a business choice, not an emotional choice.
No one here is happy with the game; not Fed players, not KDF players, not Rom players. It took Cryptic over 3 years to get its manpower back to where it was at launch. It's at this point, nearly 4 years in, that Cryptic feels confident enough to hire a 3rd ship artist. As a company they've has been struggling a long time.
Cryptic isn't Bioware. They can't throw away $5 million on a SWTOR hunch because they know they have ME 4 coming out next year that will make them $250 million. A prepay plan makes sense. It gives the KDF a chance to put their money where their mouth is and it gives Cryptic a good idea of what the KDF fan-base is capable of if they're given a chance. And it's certainly a better idea then just doing nothing, don't you think?
Forget the part about wanting some new KDF-playable assets... aren't you UFP'ers tired of shooting at the same set of KDF ships all the time without ever seeing anything different?
-- Smoov
* most is indicative of the fact that the majority of Fed players don't PvP in STO.
Now you're just being an TRIBBLE....
To me, that is all the more reason why more KDF ships are needed.
-- Smoov
Not that it really matters in STO or changes the fact that the KDF faction is still lacking in many areas such Costume, game balanced ships and the other fiddly stuff that players enjoy buying.
R.I.P
I don't want any KDF exclusive content, just fair and balanced releases. There are three factions, so if you release a ship or something special for one, you better damn well be releasing something of equal value to the other two.
I've noticed that the FED has two types of five forward weapon ships now, so where is the KDF answer to this? Nothing fair and balanced in STO. Never has been, never will be.
The last ten console zen ship released to the KDF was nearly two years ago...
Actually I'm running out of ways to convey that I'm trying to make sense out of your post as hard as I can. But I'm coming up blank.
Your idea with the D12 can mean...well it could mean just about everything.
We also don't really know whether D12 is actually a Klingon designation (probably not) and actually what for the Vulcans and later Starfleet call KDF ships.
So at worst your proposal can mean you want a ship called the way the enemy does with a special ability that randomly activates cloak in the middle of the battle and gets the player killed. YIKES, I know you don't want that.
On the other hand had your idea been something like this:
"We know from Star Trek: Generations that the plasma coil is an important part of the cloaking device. While this was a serious problem in the movie, let's turn it to our advantage.
Console Special Ability: Hyper Charged Plasma Coil - allows the ship to fade much faster into full cloak when used and also drastically improves stealth value for the first 5-10 seconds. Good for better hit'n fade attacks."
I would have been all ears and cranial ridges over such an idea.
But what you describe is so vague I must guess and guess and end up with nothing.
I'm all for new ideas, new ships etc. Heck over the last couple of years I've probably been one of the most annoying ship proposal guys on the KDF forums.
But please when you make a proposal don't leave people guessing too much.
After asking again it gets tideous and...I'm not allowed more than a limited number of "confused" emotes per post.
Sweety... You too can be accused of the same thing and not just in answering any questions but in your responses.
My proposal was that you could have lower level ships such as the D12 and D7(and no we're never told if those are KDF classifications or FED ones) spruce them up with names and consoles based on their on-screen presence(K't'inga was a modified variant of the 7, i'm talking about the classic grey and exposed green nacells) but put these classic variants into bundle packs with the ship, a bridge, some clothes... maybe a weapon or two(kinda like the TOS or ENT bundles)
also I really like that idea for a console but that should be on a better BoP...
I was thinking the D12 should have a console that once the ship decloaks it has to vent built-up plasma(say a quarter of the time/damage/hold of engineering EWP) before it can cloak again
I can understand the business reasons behind them not making any KDF stuff for KDF players to buy... why Idon't understand is why they haven't done anything to change ths situation so the KDF can get new stuff to buy.
For example, why not start making generic packs of say...boots, gloves, visor, headsets, etc, that can be used by all characters regardless of faction? It seems like such an easy way to please everyone and yet they ignore it. Its kinda baffling tbh.
I also get that ships are their big cash cows, so it'd be hard for them to justify working on a low selling KDF ship instead of a hopeful future scimi/avenger/ lockbox ship. But surely they could get someone to spend a day or two working out stats for the fleet version of more of their existing ships and then adding them to the system? KDF ships are fairly balanced so I can't imagine most would need more of a modification beyond +1 console, +10% shields/hull? Naturally i'd expect the more popular ships to get the iconic's treatment.... ie, be made useless so as to promote more lockbox sales (why else would it be that the Defiant, Galaxy, and Intrepid all get useless fleet versions, the fleet defiant doesn't even get 10% extra shields instead getting the questionable fifth tac console). So maybe finally getting fleet versions would be more bittersweet than happy.
As a sidenote, they may be wondering what to do now. What can they bring out for the KDF that will be balanced and still be desirable/profitable? Their monetization system relies on ship sales, which should be one of the things a character least buys. Its a big mess but one that is unlikely to change. Their focus on ship, ships, ships leaves them backed into a corner when they want to push something new. they seem to have gotten a clue as to how overpowered they made the roms, I suspect mostly because they realized how players flying ships like the scimitar are unlike to buy anything less.... so here comes the avenger! Not as powerful as the scimitar but with a familiar and much beloved cruiser shape and an upgrade to all cruisers to make them more desirable!
I'm surprised they haven't gotten around to making generic ships for sale to all factions outside of lockboxes yet. Or maybe that's part of the oversight CBS has, they said yes to a generic romulan rebel alliance but no to generic ships for all?
They seem to have gotten a clue as to how overpowered they made the rom ships, overpowered in PvP but generally less than desirable in PvE.... how did PvE favoring Cryptic even get into that situation anyway? Was it the same "its KEWL!!!" mentality that seems to have brought us space dinosaurs? What's next a spock's brain game mechanic?
My understanding here is that CBS only allows out-of-Faction ships if they're "rare;" and since Lockboxes drop at a rate below 1% that makes the fairly rare - and an 800 Lobi ship is, essentially, $250.00 to buy, making them quite rare as well compared to the overall player-base.