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Rules in PVP
timejumpers
Member Posts: 120 Arc User
Who decides these rules was there a vote that i missed along with half of the pvp community?
Do certain players have more say so on what is broken then others if so why?
Who gave them this power cryptic the devs the players?
Why do people say it takes no skill to use these broken consoles abilities and powers or there is no counter.
Why is it that people use these abilities and cry when others use it on them?
Who sets the criteria for what is broken or cheese in this game?
First let me start by saying no player or group of players has the authority in this game to tell another player what they can and cant use. I never got a vote and neither did alot of other people i know get a vote on what was broken or cheese. There are lots of things i think are cheese but do i tell someone not to use it no, do i call them noobs for using it no. I test and test until i find a counter wich sadly alot of the community doesnt do. They would rather say i have my build im not changing you change. So just remember next time you get hit with something against the "rules" that person didnt get to vote on those rules and in no way has to abide by them and doesnt deserve to be called a noob or spammer. Keep in mind you might be using something he considers spam.
I would like a list to things in the game with no counter i only know of 1 thing that doesnt have a counter in this game and its not even on the ban list . If you can tell me some of these abilities with no counter i will be glad to say yes thats broken. But i believe the list will be short and i garauntee everything on the ban list has a counter. So the second criteria is usually ohh that takes no skill or it only takes 1 console slot. Have you ever tried to get boarding party off on a premade team it takes alot of skill probably more skill then any other ability in the game wich is why for 3 years only a few used it. Grav pulse takes as much skill as any other ability in the game point and shooot. Just like VM GW Scramble rapid fire beam overload etc. So it slows your speed and has a chance to disable engines thats op. inversion has about 50 counters to it and costs a beam that misses half the time a torp that you can outrun at quarter impulse and a console slot. Thats not sacrificeing enough for inversion field that has 50 counters.
I know some people like to think that the person using p2w is just skilllessly spamming there consoles with no thought but i tell you your wrong alot of these things take more timing and coordination then you think. maybe if you used them you would know that but no you just want to repeat what the rule makers tell you its easier. I like new content in a game and unfortuneately the only new content we get in pvp is consoles and ships so i say use the new content learn to counter it. Its actually more fun when you have to think in this game.
If something has a counter and takes as much skill to use as any other ability in the game has a cooldown double or triple the cooldown of the counters whats the problem. Is the problem that grav pulse last 30 - 50 seconds or is the problem that you are sitting in a grav pulse for 30 - 50 seconds. Is the problem inversion slowing you and resetting your timers or is the problem that you sit in the inversion wich only has a 5k radius by the way. is the problem you got boarded by someone or is the problem that you let someone board you. I say the later. The bottom line is this if you want to follow rules thats on you but dont think others have to do the same. I have just as much right to use grave pulse as you do to double tap double nuke ewp.
If you want to look at when the community fell apart and all the fighting started look at the first time a group of players tried to force rules on others the original opvp tournament remember the opvp rules. Every since then a new group tries to come and do the same with the same result. The stupid rules are what causes the fights and arguments one person telling another person what they can and cant run. If they dont follow the rules they troll them in opvp and in zone chat good way to get someone to follow your rules lol. So keep the rules to yourself and if you want to fight with rules stay out of the public q.
Do certain players have more say so on what is broken then others if so why?
Who gave them this power cryptic the devs the players?
Why do people say it takes no skill to use these broken consoles abilities and powers or there is no counter.
Why is it that people use these abilities and cry when others use it on them?
Who sets the criteria for what is broken or cheese in this game?
First let me start by saying no player or group of players has the authority in this game to tell another player what they can and cant use. I never got a vote and neither did alot of other people i know get a vote on what was broken or cheese. There are lots of things i think are cheese but do i tell someone not to use it no, do i call them noobs for using it no. I test and test until i find a counter wich sadly alot of the community doesnt do. They would rather say i have my build im not changing you change. So just remember next time you get hit with something against the "rules" that person didnt get to vote on those rules and in no way has to abide by them and doesnt deserve to be called a noob or spammer. Keep in mind you might be using something he considers spam.
I would like a list to things in the game with no counter i only know of 1 thing that doesnt have a counter in this game and its not even on the ban list . If you can tell me some of these abilities with no counter i will be glad to say yes thats broken. But i believe the list will be short and i garauntee everything on the ban list has a counter. So the second criteria is usually ohh that takes no skill or it only takes 1 console slot. Have you ever tried to get boarding party off on a premade team it takes alot of skill probably more skill then any other ability in the game wich is why for 3 years only a few used it. Grav pulse takes as much skill as any other ability in the game point and shooot. Just like VM GW Scramble rapid fire beam overload etc. So it slows your speed and has a chance to disable engines thats op. inversion has about 50 counters to it and costs a beam that misses half the time a torp that you can outrun at quarter impulse and a console slot. Thats not sacrificeing enough for inversion field that has 50 counters.
I know some people like to think that the person using p2w is just skilllessly spamming there consoles with no thought but i tell you your wrong alot of these things take more timing and coordination then you think. maybe if you used them you would know that but no you just want to repeat what the rule makers tell you its easier. I like new content in a game and unfortuneately the only new content we get in pvp is consoles and ships so i say use the new content learn to counter it. Its actually more fun when you have to think in this game.
If something has a counter and takes as much skill to use as any other ability in the game has a cooldown double or triple the cooldown of the counters whats the problem. Is the problem that grav pulse last 30 - 50 seconds or is the problem that you are sitting in a grav pulse for 30 - 50 seconds. Is the problem inversion slowing you and resetting your timers or is the problem that you sit in the inversion wich only has a 5k radius by the way. is the problem you got boarded by someone or is the problem that you let someone board you. I say the later. The bottom line is this if you want to follow rules thats on you but dont think others have to do the same. I have just as much right to use grave pulse as you do to double tap double nuke ewp.
If you want to look at when the community fell apart and all the fighting started look at the first time a group of players tried to force rules on others the original opvp tournament remember the opvp rules. Every since then a new group tries to come and do the same with the same result. The stupid rules are what causes the fights and arguments one person telling another person what they can and cant run. If they dont follow the rules they troll them in opvp and in zone chat good way to get someone to follow your rules lol. So keep the rules to yourself and if you want to fight with rules stay out of the public q.
Post edited by timejumpers on
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Comments
and the fireworks begin in
3......2.....1......
But if winning is all you want, sure, go right ahead!
Oh, and if you have this attitude, make sure you yourself don't QQ when someone uses any ability on you.
*Pops back into mousehole*
Yes you are correct i can run whatever ability i want i didnt need your approval but thanks . A nd yes you can say whatever you want. Do i want or care or need your respect hell no. i prefer respect from someone that has a clue what they are talking about. So if i dont follow your rules that have no criteria for being rules except a group of people dont like them i am to be called a noob and spammer in opvp and public chat wow sounds like a good way to bring the community together.Show me your criteria for why these things are banned and other abilities with bigger issues are allowed.
Ill give you an example of how your uneducated misinformation polutes the new players in the community. Today i heard a player from a so called top fleet claim grav pulse has no counter that is a down right lie but you know what i dont blame him. I blame the idiots that told him that because like i said earlier most never test for themselves they just repeat what there told as fact when its not fact. So your entitled to your opinion and so am i and i dont cry when i get hit with anything and ive never thought i got beat by a grav pulse or an inversion field pixel recognition maybe but thats another story.And if you think running your mouth in zone chat is going to help your wrong.
Nuff said. You need all the help you can get if you lose to bots in PVP.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As for general PvP, I think there is a difference between running abilities that many players find annoying or unbalanced and doing things which result in behavior clearly not intended by the developers.
Take, for instance, the emergency to auxiliary power bug that went unpatched for weeks which allowed people to effectively detect stealth ships at ranges that they could detect unstealthed ships. Some players were using that power before it was broken, so it is not really appropriate to expect them to stop using it while it is fixed; however, a lot of players went out and intentionally equipped the power in order to exploit the bug.
That violates the TOS, good sportsmanship, and is essentially cheating.
People can argue all day about powers such as scramble sensors doffs, temporal backstep, AMS, and whatever else one considers unbalanced or "cheesy", but those are part of the game and are working as intended (for the moment). On the other hand, players who intentionally equip powers or undertake actions that result in behavior not intended to be possible by the developers are cheaters and should be constantly admonished and reported when appropriate.
And in private challenges, the people setting up the match can impose whatever rules they want to impose. Whether you play under those rules is up to you, it's a private match, even if it's being organized via the organized PvP channel. In the public queues there are no rules. . .and again, I'll point to you how crappy they are as a result.
NIPPLES! >_<*
nah jk, op deserves a valid answer, i just couldnt get past the first 3 sentences.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
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So go ahead, we'd all enjoy finding out what all of us had been unable to figure out, yet you have.
Also, stop drinking the koolaid in regards to the pixel recognition thing.
Though I'd also like to meet these 'rule makers' as well, because I never needed them to tell me a single thing. Why? I did research on my own, and dealt with much of what is considered 'cheese' on my own, in both controlled tests and in the pure pug queues.
"It's in the game, why shouldn't I use it? Who are you tell to me not to? What exact determines if it's cheese?"
Long story short, feel free to use whatever you want. But know that you are furthering the general notion out there that unless you're rocking the best lockbox/Fleet gear, there's no point in stepping into a PvP Arena.
Furthermore, if you need those to win, don't go championing yourself as a good player at the end of the match (OP, this isn't directed towards you specifically, but in general). Good players don't need something as OP/P2W as TIF, for example, to pull off kills and victories.
What makes TIF so OP/P2W? It's vastly superior to any BOff abilities, has "counters" that are overtly difficult to implement due to the nature of the ability itself, and is available through 1 means and 1 means only - pay for it.
Now, feel free to use whatever you feel like. But I know that I personally turn every little bit of annoyance that I can muster out of my Sci ship (without using P2W) onto those I see using GPG/TIF/whatever else is broken.
Dislcaimer: Perhaps, I'm a little bias because I do fly the USS Please Don't P2W afterall.
I already do not impose any type of rules on the public ques so I thought a little quid pro quo could be in order.
I look forward to your next vastly improved or entirely non existent thread.
Cheers and all that.
I personally have little respect for people who sling around the most broken/unbalanced/cheesiest universal consoles and then brag about how skilled they are. I make a point of either using no universal consoles or a very limited amount of them, usually a 'balanced' one. Right now on my Fleet Norgh PvP build, the only universal ability console I have is Impulse Capacitance Cell. It's good for running away from a fight when you're about to get blasted to bits. No real turning while it's active, the speed of your getaway can vary depending on the situation, etc. I think it's a console that's considered 'acceptable' by most. I USED to also carry a Magnetometric Generator ability console, which is considered a relatively weak ability console to use. I carry two other universal consoles that aren't ability consoles (assimilated console and zero-point energy conduit). Everything else is easily obtainable stuff, including the Fleet Norgh itself. I rely on what skill I have, the battlecloak of the BoP, and accurately timing my de-cloak attacks.
People who run lockbox ships loaded with 2-3 of the more controversial consoles (graviton pulse, AMS, Elachi console, etc) just tick me off. They're using cheap tricks and the best toys in order to ensure a victory, rather than earning it by having good tactics, timing, or overall skill.
People like you have no honour and love to go for cheap kills i see. I look forward to seeing you on the battlefield.
It takes a mouse to use cheese consoles, but a man to play without them.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Much like other folks can't control/tell you what to use...
...you can't control/tell folks what to think of you based on what you use.
Oy! I take offense to that!
Lol Present company excluded of course, except the op
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
There SHOULD be some enforced rules in PvP and people like him should be banned ! Freak.
You use TRIBBLE, u are going to be treated like TRIBBLE (even more if u are using it in a premade vs pugs matches in queques). Deal with it, get some balls and learn how to play without cheese.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
I used to be the first person in line to suggest an honour system, but nobody can police it so why bother? Besides, nobody can ever agree what's OP or broken.
If you use cheese then I'm not going to think you're any less a player, but if think think I won't call you out and wind you up about it? Think again. We don't have scoreboards, we don't have a magic list of players ranked on their abilities. All we have is the way we are seen. If you dish out on too much cheese then you deal with it.
If somebody warps out when he's getting beaten, or cloaks and preaches to people instead of taking part - expect me to name & shame you in OPvP. You are what you eat.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Let a noob educate you awesomely skilled auto hotkey users.
let me start off by saying no inversion field cant be countered by a 3rd party program it actually is the ability that screws it up the most wich is why the rule makers hate it. Here is a description of the ability first - 200% flight speed -150% turn rate - 150% power recharge speed.
counter #1 photonic shock wave i know its hard to use with a 3k range but if your within 5 you should be able to close 2k distance.
counter #2 photonic shockwave torpedo now you only need to be within 10k range
counter #3 scramble sensors this can be used from 10 k also.
counter #4 antimatter spread you need to be closer but still works.
Now before i go into these next counters i think it should be noted that the biggest weakness inversion has is a 5k range. The movement debuff can be countered by abilities that increase speed turn and movement. And something else you guys obviously dont know is if you fly out of 5 k not only does it remove the movement debuff key word debuff not disable inversion in no way disables your engines.
So counter number 5 tractor beam repulsors Have your sci repulsor out the evil person using inversion that way the other 4 noobs who cant seem to escape the 5 k range arent affected by it.
counter number 5 evasive maneuvers if you cant get out of 5k range with eveasive you are a noob.
counter 6 omega helps counter the movement and turn debuff wich again allows you to get out of 5k.
impulse capcitance cell the pay to win console that 1 poster likes to use again brings you out of 5k range.
epte again will increase your speed to get out of 5 k range.
i think you get my point on getting out of 5k range and any ability that will help you do that is a counter.
next point is the power speed recharge debuff that also has a 5 k range and does not add the full amount of the timer increase if you are not within 5k.The timer debuff only adds when you are in inversion field so you only lose a few seconds on cooldowns if you move 5k away i bet you werent told that by the people complaining.
Now onto the next set of counters that i bet alot of you didnt know is that disableing auxillary also disables inversion.
counter number 7 viral matrix disables aux
counter 8 target auxillary subsystems .
there are other things that also disable aux any of them work.
there are other detailed team strategies that will counter inversion also if you want more detail let me knowill be glad to post them for the lazy noobs who only listen to what they are told.
So i have made my case as why the cost of inversion 2 weapons slots 1 fore weapon slot at that and a console and the limits to inversion are quite ballancedwith numerous counters. And lets not forget the 3 minute cooldown.
So for giving up 2 weapons for 2 subpar weapons and a console slot i should get what jam sensors. the ability should be powerful if you can get people caught in it.
Let me go ahead and get out of the way the responses to these counters because ive already heard it word for word from all you guys wich is why i know you just repeat what your told like good little boys.
They will say ohh 5 people using it is op i agree 100% but no more op then stacking 5 of anything .
Next they will say how can you fly out of it when your in tractor viraled and gassed? Well i say this how do you get out of anything when your tractored viraled and gassed.
They will say it takes no skill to push the button. Well it takes skill and timing to put that player in a position to not get out of the inversion. No you dont just hit the button and ships freeze and then blow up i wish it was that simple.
They will say it has no counter. Ive proved that wrong it has more counters then 95% of the abilities ingame.
So i have shown the counters explained its limitations all i hear from you guys is its op no reason why except reasons that others told you that are untrue.
So if it has counters cost alot compared to other consoles and abilities 3 minute cooldown and does take skill to use then why is it considered op. P2W is P2W bug ship cost 380 million and up grav pulse console 500 k. P2W is P2W you cant say one is ok and one is not without being a hypocrite.
And yes extreme noob i believe a 3rd party program wich gives you the freedom to leave half your abilities off your tray and not even activating them yourself without having to deal with the ui lag from ingame key binds and spamming space bar does and can auto heal teammates and reacts in milliseconds is op and alot worse then grav pulse and inversion. Id rather be someone that complains about a 3rd party program that is against the tos then be beat and cry about a console or ability on a 3 minute cooldown. IF IT DOESNT HELP YOU AND MAKES NO DIFFERENCE THEN WHY USE IT.
Oh yeah your the guy that cried spam no im not TRIBBLE. But i was on there teamspeak when you cried in opvp about a public q match and then went into a 1v1 against a player from there fleet and had the nerve to use the dkora a2b exploit emp burst and still lost. Isnt that banned from the tourney you hold such high regards for. HYPOCRITE if you use something "broken" and complain about people using something that is not then that is what you are. Oh yeah you must be the guy that was saying grav pulse has no counter and eng team doesnt clear it lol.
still lost? lol i won, it was a very easy game. He is now spamming my mail box asking for a rematch saying that i'm a coward & exploiter for using aux2bat (and a few insults to my mom, that are properly reported to cryptic :rolleyes:)
I used the emp cause i wanted to give your guys a little of your own medicine, and it worked really good, u are now ragging about emp. And is not an exploit, is an unbalanced thing, like grav pulse or such.
Is really funny see you trying to justify the use of grav pulse and TIF when EVERYBODY here knows that they are way out of line, and that is the reason why they are banned in tournamnets, and that is the reason why u fleet dosn't take part of the tournamnets, and i don' bit that pandas excuse that u give me, the 3th No-BS one was made by IC and pandas where banned, and still u didn't show up, your fleet is another cheesecake factory like FS, and if they got 0 respect from the pvp community, be sure that will be the same with yours.
90% of the replys here are telling you the same, maybe some of them are more polite than others, but in the end is the same. If u want to use cheese, use it, but don't come and cry here when ppl talks bad about your fleet, that is the price you pay.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
90% of the consoles now are offensive based.
we need more defensive p2w!
Do you even Science Bro?
Actual new user, or just a troll? Because a large portion of the posts are to BUFF things (Sci in general, Aceton Beam, etc).
And his 'counters' don't really work in practice. Sure, a lot of things work on paper, but don't in an Arena.
Really what counters that i listed dont work in practice. again no explanation just because i said so TRIBBLE.
sry...NOPE lol
as the OP said; TIF is very easy to counter....some guy used TIF yesterday on me...i instantly got rid of it with photonic shockwave
or how about just flying out of 5km range?lol use ya brains guys
and about AMS...ever heard of sci team?
anyways...me likey my TIF
I merely made an observation. It is people like you who are trolls, sitting in forums and jumping on anyone's post that does not please you. And the reason why post PvE players does not wish to enter PvP. Well unlike you I have things to do in real life. You can continue to sit here and troll on, or decide to get a real life.
Cheers.
to be fair tif is very very VERY hard to counter with shockwave if the TIF pilot knows what hes doing.
shockwave torp is much better imo.
Do you even Science Bro?
Umm if you notice i never mentioned emp in the not broken category A2B EMP is actually broken its timer is reduced by A2B and its not supposed to great criteria for an ability to be considered broken. Unlike inversion grav pulse etc. wich work excactly as the description says.My fleet is the federal reserve not TRIBBLE so get it straight. I didnt spam you with anything i wasnt in the match. and from what i heard on ts was 2 bug ships 2 cruisers and 1 sci ship the only P2W on the team that wasnt a ship was grav pulse on 1 ship not 5 50 second ones like you would like to make people believe. I think its common knowledge that the rules for the no bs tourney were made by a member of the pandas. And yes they were banned from the tourney because people dont like to play against 3rd party programs.
...but on the other hand don't have a problem facerolling and stomping, fresh blue VAs, while completely outgearing them or ganging up on single players in Kerrat. You don't only get that beaviour from people on the forums, but also ingame and I've even seen it it my own, old premade group.
Don't get me wrong, I don't condemn either behaviour, even though I've been on the recieving end of both, too, but it seems that there are a lot of fcking hypocrites in STOs PvP community.