You must be playing at a lower monitor resolution than I am then.... Mine are clips of in-game screenshots. they're exactly the same size I see them in game.
In that case, why bother having separate icons for them? No other consoles have visual differences between the marks, they all have the same icon. If they're going to have different icons then they do need to be easily distinguished "at a glance." If not, then they need to change the icons to be one uniform icon just like all the other consoles.
The game has always had seperate names and icons for them, even though there's really no point to it....
In that case, why bother having separate icons for them? No other consoles have visual differences between the marks, they all have the same icon. If they're going to have different icons then they do need to be easily distinguished "at a glance." If not, then they need to change the icons to be one uniform icon just like all the other consoles.
The alloys have always had different icons and names for different marks. I don't know why.
You must be playing at a lower monitor resolution than I am then.... Mine are clips of in-game screenshots. they're exactly the same size I see them in game.The game has always had seperate names and icons for them, even though there's really no point to it....
Ah could be. I'm at 1680x1050 and I have my UI set to the default size. I could scale up the UI to be larger, but then I'd have more UI on my screen than the actual game lol. It would end up looking like this! :eek:
Okay, okay, that's a major exaggeration on my part, but I've always wanted to use that image lol.
The alloys have always had different icons for different marks. I don't know why.
Yeah I'm just now realizing that, my bad. In any case since we have the UI guy up in here doing icon changes, my suggestion to him would be to change the alloys to match all the other consoles. Give them a uniform name and icon. That shouldn't be too much effort I don't think?
Ah could be. I'm at 1680x1050 and I have my UI set to the default size. I could scale up the UI to be larger, but then I'd have more UI on my screen than the actual game lol. It would end up looking like this! :eek:
Okay, okay, that's a major exaggeration on my part, but I've always wanted to use that image lol.
Yeah I'm just now realizing that, my bad. In any case since we have the UI guy up in here doing icon changes, my suggestion to him would be to change the alloys to match all the other consoles. Give them a uniform name and icon. That shouldn't be too much effort I don't think?
I think Thomas had a cool idea. Adding layers to make it thicker? It makes a lot of sense.
Whew.. to many posts to read. I'll have to think about my opinion on the rest.. I think the Tactical ones are okay, they look like lil energy cells...
I will say quite a few new icons look to "cartoony" if thats putting it right. Not in their design but in their color pallet(bright like a comic book colors) & the Engineering Armor icons just look misplaced... they look more like Computer HardWare devices.. like a Graphics Card you'd put in your PC.. rather then Armored Ship Platting
And no one ever suggested such a thing either, is what I was saying.
LOL. I'll give you points for obfuscation. :P Because the alternative would be to assume you really thought this was about me comparing the job of TV salesman to that of a design artist. And I'm trying to determine whether that's funny or sad (I'm leaning towards funny for the moment; but it's probably sad).
Anyway, as ppl have hinted above, maybe we should just stick to talking about the icon art again.
Pretty much all your responses summed up exactly was I was trying to get across previously.
After looking at feedback we reviewed the icons for the engineering alloys and decided that they indeed did look too similar. I've already checked in new art for these icons that still has a uniform style but is more distinct:
And this goes directly to the initial point I was making - someone was doing something, then went to the boss and said "I'm done with my project. Here it is." It gets approved and implemented.
The impression I'm left with in this scenario is people were given an assignment, turned it in, then given an A+ without the teacher actually looking at and considering the worth of the final production. So did it not get "reviewed" prior to getting implemented, or are you guys re-"reviewing" them?
I think Thomas had a cool idea. Adding layers to make it thicker? It makes a lot of sense.
It was creative, but the thing is that Neutronium is supposed to be dense (if not the densest of hull platings). So to me, while the thicker icon is a nice representation, it's not true. It's no more than saying Aluminum plating is the same as Steel plating.
Anyhow, they updated the Tribble notes. Disappointed there is no mention of changing or reverting the icons in the next build.
Close-up view on a ships's saucer, and the hull has based on the
Armor Type a different texture like circles, lines, webs, hexagons.. The better
the material type the denser the texture.
yes, they are annoying and to color full. but then again this is not "contructive" so will be censored, closed.
99% of the threads on this forum never get closed - and those that do generally are closed for breaking one of the forum rules listed at the top. At best this thread will get merged with the 400-post thread about the subject that already exists - with the intent of keeping all feedback in one place.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
They're more practical, especially for newer players. I remember my first couple of months, looking into my inventory and having no idea what was what!
Increasing simplicity = Easier to use
___________________________ The day will not save them. And we own the night.
And this goes directly to the initial point I was making - someone was doing something, then went to the boss and said "I'm done with my project. Here it is." It gets approved and implemented.
The impression I'm left with in this scenario is people were given an assignment, turned it in, then given an A+ without the teacher actually looking at and considering the worth of the final production. So did it not get "reviewed" prior to getting implemented, or are you guys re-"reviewing" them?
Seriously, I'd really like to know.
:rolleyes:
I think that the work DID get "graded" after it was submitted. Ot's just that they didn't grade it using the same standards you do.
It was creative, but the thing is that Neutronium is supposed to be dense (if not the densest of hull platings). So to me, while the thicker icon is a nice representation, it's not true. It's no more than saying Aluminum plating is the same as Steel plating.
Enh... it's a cool visual.... and ultimately, this IS a computer game after all.
I like the fact that Bio function monitor look like the Bio function monitor on the shows:eek:
If people past basic shapes in Kindergarten they can tell the different between the new icons.
Agreed.
It'll take a while to adjust so you know what things are immediately by looking at them, but on the whole I think they're a huge improvement.
People just don't like change - think of all the millions of posts about how the new UI was horrible and worse than the old one. Go and watch a video with the old UI, seriously, it was horrible.
You will say the same thing about consoles in 6 months.
I like the fact that Bio function monitor look like the Bio function monitor on the shows:eek:
If people past basic shapes in Kindergarten they can tell the different between the new icons.
Agreed. The new icons actually look like they are equipment from Star Trek and the icons have a more updated look to them.
Although, an icon option in the Options menu wouldn't be a bad idea. People that like the new and better icons can use them while people that like the outdated icons can use them.
New icons are horrible.
They look really cartoony (like from a comic book) and do NOT blend well with the other icons that represent engines, sheilds, weapons etc.
For example all other icons have a black background.
I like the idea to try to clean up consoles - (eg all the sci consoles never changed after the revamp - for example photonic becoming part. gen and still looking like a holodeck). But homogenizing the tac consoles (energy weapons/torps) was wrong as the icons telling you the type is just too small even when viewed on a 32 inch TV screen. Implementation is a fail.
Obviously the art department dont fix bugs, but time could have been spend on making zones like the academies suitable for jetpacks or making new maps for new missions.. who knows...
The icons were a problem and should never have been changed.
Sir, you deserve a standing ovation!! I want to support Cryptic in their endeavors, but this really irritates me. Why were these changed? Cartoonish doesn't begin to describe what the new icons look like. I am shocked that people "like" any of these. I've been playing for years, and this has to be the first time an unwanted graphical update has made playing slightly less functional. Why add something that adds nothing to the game. FAIL, please change them back.
Sir, you deserve a standing ovation!! I want to support Cryptic in their endeavors, but this really irritates me. Why were these changed? Cartoonish doesn't begin to describe what the new icons look like. I am shocked that people "like" any of these. I've been playing for years, and this has to be the first time an unwanted graphical update has made playing slightly less functional. Why add something that adds nothing to the game. FAIL, please change them back.
Agreed as well.
I guess the change has been a blessing in one way: the new tactical console icon's dark pink backgrounds annoy me sufficiently to turn STO off every time I try to play. Now I see an end to my STO addiction
Also, I was mistaken when I said the new icons look like soda cans, when in fact they more closely resemble baby food jars:
IMO, the problem is that while the changed icons looked just fine in the images linked in the OP, they do not downscale well at all, and end up looking like terrible MS paint pictures with no anti-aliasing at the actual in-game resolution.
I'm not asking you to revert to the previous icons, but please go back to the original art for the new icons and give them another art pass, recrop, etc etc so that they look better at the scale we will actually be seeing them in-game.
EDIT: It's also kind of odd how the warp core graphics, which I can only assume were also produced recently, managed to fit in pretty well with the established art style, while these (including the updated versions of those same cores)... don't. At all. Different artist / team? Were the cores actually drawn some time ago, and only recently implemented? May I suggest that, if possible, you get the original artist(s) back?
EDIT the second - from reading some of the previous posts in this thread, I note the possibility that this was given to a new hire as some sort of apprenticeship project. If so, I submit that this was a mistake - IMO, it is extremely important (to the maximum degree possible/practical) to maintain a consistent style across all parts of a game's UI, and if an artist cannot match the existing style while creating new work, they should not be given such a task.
If people past basic shapes in Kindergarten they can tell the different between the new icons.
That's not really the entire issue. The color of the equip + background + same designs = double take...or right click...or "wait, what was this for again? Oh to hell with it." Champions and Neverwinter have this problem/"feature" as well were the equip is basically the same icon design for certain things even though it's actually different. It's precisely why I thought of CO as soon as I logged in and saw the changes.
Having obvious differences in graphics does make a difference with regards to having to change builds quickly and/or having to discard certain items when inventory is full, what things you want to sell vs keep, etc. Yeah, the shapes will become familiar, but remembering the function is another matter, especially when the colors chosen don't help to differentiate much.
And as others and myself have said - it didn't NEED to be changed.
IMO, the problem is that while the changed icons looked just fine in the images linked in the OP, they do not downscale well at all, and end up looking like terrible MS paint pictures with no anti-aliasing at the actual in-game resolution.
That's the problem with them EXACTLY. Yes, they look cartoonish; and the tact consoles, indeed, look like baby-food jars; or barrels of gunpowder in a cartoon (every time I see them, I expect Bugs Bunny, or a pirate, arrr, to light a fuse under them). But that is all okay, really.
What is NOT okay is their scaling. And I don't know how to say this without sounding rude, but it's a bit of a noob-mistake to make for an icon-maker. What works at 20x20cm does not necessarily look equally great or functional at icon size. That's a rather basic rule to observe. And no, 'Just count layers on the Neutronium' is proof of fail, rather than anything else.
I'm also saddened by the typical responses to just get over it; or that people simply aren't used to them yet. Yeah, no.
That's not really the entire issue. The color of the equip + background + same designs = double take...or right click...or "wait, what was this for again? Oh to hell with it." Champions and Neverwinter have this problem/"feature" as well were the equip is basically the same icon design for certain things even though it's actually different. It's precisely why I thought of CO as soon as I logged in and saw the changes.
Having obvious differences in graphics does make a difference with regards to having to change builds quickly and/or having to discard certain items when inventory is full, what things you want to sell vs keep, etc. Yeah, the shapes will become familiar, but remembering the function is another matter, especially when the colors chosen don't help to differentiate much.
And as others and myself have said - it didn't NEED to be changed.
Have you played Diablo 2? Actually NW did this too, at least in the beta. In both games there are a tiny number of graphics for rings and each ring gets a largely random picture assigned to it. It could be amazingly awesome, or it could be crud.... you could never tell by the picture. the only way to tell AT ALL was to mouseover and read the stats.
Also I feel the need to point out that this sort of thing holds true for most weapons in STO....
It didnt surprise me at all, it had to happen eventually.
The well known 'Dont touch stuff if it aint broke' many older Veteran players often had to endure in the past returns.
We all know the drama around Season 4 with the ground revamp, where Cryptic had to RE- adjust the running animation about 5 times because they couldnt get it right. The funny thing was there was nothing wrong with the old animations.So much valued time was spilled back then when Season 4 was full of bugs (and where many bugs are still around till todays date)
Then at the same time they had this weird idea of changing all of ESD and replace some awesome visuals and interior with train station signs, dull looking corners, etc.
Not to mention back then they also got their hands on the weapon visuals in space, changing the lovely graphics like polaron to some blurry mixed mess. anti proton got changed to red blood spatters, pha/dis got changed into some dull vague and way too blurred weapons(for cannons)
Go find some youtube video about how it all used to be pre season 4 and you will scratch your head onto why they keep bothering with changing stuff that aint need touching.
The,UI got a recent revamp, questionable whether everyone like the color coded super high contrast UI/tray etc. So called memory footprint to reduce the resources on the UI where in todays date the UI is still the most resource demanding part of this game.
So much aspects of this game are in need of some real attention (pvp, new featured missions, new STFs) but Cryptic seems to rather spend and divide their resources amongst inferior art changes, super grind reputation TRIBBLE, etc.
Should i go on?
Oh well one relief is that the new icons fit awesomely well with the oh so awesomely EGA colored UI.
Seems more and more like a 1995 Windows 3.11 game.
That's the problem with them EXACTLY. Yes, they look cartoonish; and the tact consoles, indeed, look like baby-food jars; or barrels of gunpowder in a cartoon (every time I see them, I expect Bugs Bunny, or a pirate, arrr, to light a fuse under them). But that is all okay, really.
Actually that summed up so well how I felt about them. Funny I thought it was just me.:D
I can live with some of the changes but the fleet armour and tac consoles are ghastly.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
Ok given the fact that there are so many bugs in this game and I along with a number of other players cannot log on to my Main character account because of a server not responding bug not the connection time out, or a number of item flaws skills and too many to list. So instead of fixes we get cartoon consoles that are easily discarded because they look ridiculous. It is again proof of changing visuals to try and provide a different feel to a game that is handled poorly. QA is far superior to cartoonish changes and content additions. Just wondering when customer service stopped being top priority. And by the way Mr. breakfast cereal or wheaties whatever your handle is you would rage if all your hard spent hours in your favorite game got made worthless and no one did anything about it for almost a years time and then suddenly you cant even log in. Top of the day to you guys though.
Ok given the fact that there are so many bugs in this game and I along with a number of other players cannot log on to my Main character account because of a server not responding bug not the connection time out, or a number of item flaws skills and too many to list. So instead of fixes we get cartoon consoles that are easily discarded because they look ridiculous. It is again proof of changing visuals to try and provide a different feel to a game that is handled poorly. QA is far superior to cartoonish changes and content additions. Just wondering when customer service stopped being top priority. And by the way Mr. breakfast cereal or wheaties whatever your handle is you would rage if all your hard spent hours in your favorite game got made worthless and no one did anything about it for almost a years time and then suddenly you cant even log in. Top of the day to you guys though.
The people who do visual designs are not the same people who do server bugs fixes or the like..... different departments.... you're proposing an either/or scenario where one does not exist.
seems it's easier to criticize and belittle the development team rather than have a suggestive discussion in order to attempt to make the experience better or try and understand the reason why things are the way they are.
but hey....rage on.
*yawn.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Its not complaining just stating the obvious but if you are happy with bugs and cartoon drawings in game just watch looney toons instead. I did make a few suggestions but hey im just a player of a the game what do I know anyway. I said shut it down for a week or two and get it all sorted out. Then since the game was away for a week have a sale to make up for any lost revenue. There are tons of ideas to fix the problems. However, the suits rather keep squeezing the utters despite the obvious infections in them.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
The alloys have always had different icons and names for different marks. I don't know why.
Ah could be. I'm at 1680x1050 and I have my UI set to the default size. I could scale up the UI to be larger, but then I'd have more UI on my screen than the actual game lol. It would end up looking like this! :eek:
Okay, okay, that's a major exaggeration on my part, but I've always wanted to use that image lol.
Yeah I'm just now realizing that, my bad. In any case since we have the UI guy up in here doing icon changes, my suggestion to him would be to change the alloys to match all the other consoles. Give them a uniform name and icon. That shouldn't be too much effort I don't think?
Mine Trap Supporter
My character Tsin'xing
I will say quite a few new icons look to "cartoony" if thats putting it right. Not in their design but in their color pallet(bright like a comic book colors) & the Engineering Armor icons just look misplaced... they look more like Computer HardWare devices.. like a Graphics Card you'd put in your PC.. rather then Armored Ship Platting
-V
:cool:
----
And this goes directly to the initial point I was making - someone was doing something, then went to the boss and said "I'm done with my project. Here it is." It gets approved and implemented.
The impression I'm left with in this scenario is people were given an assignment, turned it in, then given an A+ without the teacher actually looking at and considering the worth of the final production. So did it not get "reviewed" prior to getting implemented, or are you guys re-"reviewing" them?
Seriously, I'd really like to know.
:rolleyes:
It was creative, but the thing is that Neutronium is supposed to be dense (if not the densest of hull platings). So to me, while the thicker icon is a nice representation, it's not true. It's no more than saying Aluminum plating is the same as Steel plating.
Anyhow, they updated the Tribble notes. Disappointed there is no mention of changing or reverting the icons in the next build.
Close-up view on a ships's saucer, and the hull has based on the
Armor Type a different texture like circles, lines, webs, hexagons.. The better
the material type the denser the texture.
Increasing simplicity = Easier to use
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
If people past basic shapes in Kindergarten they can tell the different between the new icons.
My character Tsin'xing
Agreed.
It'll take a while to adjust so you know what things are immediately by looking at them, but on the whole I think they're a huge improvement.
People just don't like change - think of all the millions of posts about how the new UI was horrible and worse than the old one. Go and watch a video with the old UI, seriously, it was horrible.
You will say the same thing about consoles in 6 months.
Get over yourself IMO.
Kirk's Protege.
Agreed. The new icons actually look like they are equipment from Star Trek and the icons have a more updated look to them.
Although, an icon option in the Options menu wouldn't be a bad idea. People that like the new and better icons can use them while people that like the outdated icons can use them.
Sir, you deserve a standing ovation!! I want to support Cryptic in their endeavors, but this really irritates me. Why were these changed? Cartoonish doesn't begin to describe what the new icons look like. I am shocked that people "like" any of these. I've been playing for years, and this has to be the first time an unwanted graphical update has made playing slightly less functional. Why add something that adds nothing to the game. FAIL, please change them back.
Agreed as well.
I guess the change has been a blessing in one way: the new tactical console icon's dark pink backgrounds annoy me sufficiently to turn STO off every time I try to play. Now I see an end to my STO addiction
Also, I was mistaken when I said the new icons look like soda cans, when in fact they more closely resemble baby food jars:
https://www.google.com/#fp=8f9ad9c84a97d3b0&q=baby+food+jar+images
I'm not asking you to revert to the previous icons, but please go back to the original art for the new icons and give them another art pass, recrop, etc etc so that they look better at the scale we will actually be seeing them in-game.
EDIT: It's also kind of odd how the warp core graphics, which I can only assume were also produced recently, managed to fit in pretty well with the established art style, while these (including the updated versions of those same cores)... don't. At all. Different artist / team? Were the cores actually drawn some time ago, and only recently implemented? May I suggest that, if possible, you get the original artist(s) back?
EDIT the second - from reading some of the previous posts in this thread, I note the possibility that this was given to a new hire as some sort of apprenticeship project. If so, I submit that this was a mistake - IMO, it is extremely important (to the maximum degree possible/practical) to maintain a consistent style across all parts of a game's UI, and if an artist cannot match the existing style while creating new work, they should not be given such a task.
Having obvious differences in graphics does make a difference with regards to having to change builds quickly and/or having to discard certain items when inventory is full, what things you want to sell vs keep, etc. Yeah, the shapes will become familiar, but remembering the function is another matter, especially when the colors chosen don't help to differentiate much.
And as others and myself have said - it didn't NEED to be changed.
That's the problem with them EXACTLY. Yes, they look cartoonish; and the tact consoles, indeed, look like baby-food jars; or barrels of gunpowder in a cartoon (every time I see them, I expect Bugs Bunny, or a pirate, arrr, to light a fuse under them). But that is all okay, really.
What is NOT okay is their scaling. And I don't know how to say this without sounding rude, but it's a bit of a noob-mistake to make for an icon-maker. What works at 20x20cm does not necessarily look equally great or functional at icon size. That's a rather basic rule to observe. And no, 'Just count layers on the Neutronium' is proof of fail, rather than anything else.
I'm also saddened by the typical responses to just get over it; or that people simply aren't used to them yet. Yeah, no.
Also I feel the need to point out that this sort of thing holds true for most weapons in STO....
My character Tsin'xing
The well known 'Dont touch stuff if it aint broke' many older Veteran players often had to endure in the past returns.
We all know the drama around Season 4 with the ground revamp, where Cryptic had to RE- adjust the running animation about 5 times because they couldnt get it right. The funny thing was there was nothing wrong with the old animations.So much valued time was spilled back then when Season 4 was full of bugs (and where many bugs are still around till todays date)
Then at the same time they had this weird idea of changing all of ESD and replace some awesome visuals and interior with train station signs, dull looking corners, etc.
Not to mention back then they also got their hands on the weapon visuals in space, changing the lovely graphics like polaron to some blurry mixed mess. anti proton got changed to red blood spatters, pha/dis got changed into some dull vague and way too blurred weapons(for cannons)
Go find some youtube video about how it all used to be pre season 4 and you will scratch your head onto why they keep bothering with changing stuff that aint need touching.
The,UI got a recent revamp, questionable whether everyone like the color coded super high contrast UI/tray etc. So called memory footprint to reduce the resources on the UI where in todays date the UI is still the most resource demanding part of this game.
So much aspects of this game are in need of some real attention (pvp, new featured missions, new STFs) but Cryptic seems to rather spend and divide their resources amongst inferior art changes, super grind reputation TRIBBLE, etc.
Should i go on?
Oh well one relief is that the new icons fit awesomely well with the oh so awesomely EGA colored UI.
Seems more and more like a 1995 Windows 3.11 game.
Actually that summed up so well how I felt about them. Funny I thought it was just me.:D
I can live with some of the changes but the fleet armour and tac consoles are ghastly.
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
The people who do visual designs are not the same people who do server bugs fixes or the like..... different departments.... you're proposing an either/or scenario where one does not exist.
seems it's easier to criticize and belittle the development team rather than have a suggestive discussion in order to attempt to make the experience better or try and understand the reason why things are the way they are.
but hey....rage on.
*yawn.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
No, didn't think so. :P
Probably not.... but some people around here need someone who hold dual expertise in neurology and proctology.