Mainly because I play what gives the largest profit.
It's a game about grinding so of course I will be where I can earn the most for my time served.
I always said pvp is for people who have nothing left to grind for, I still believe that.
The gameplay itself is 100 % predictable and un-inspiring. Either you 3 vs 1 them or they 3 vs 1 you.
Usually it's the fed side that gets teamed and you can't really do anything about it. But it felt just as sad when I played pvp as a klingon - there wasn't any sense of accomplisment or victory or anything.
So to me it's like I have to lose profit and provide gameplay for bored people ? No chance
I'd need like a regular job pay an hour, probably more, to even think about it.
I apologize if i said something redundant but i red fast all those posts and maybe i'm writing obvious things, but it's just my opinion
For me the answer is simple...i don't like PVP, i did occasionally in some game but if i can i avoid it, i love PVE, just that.
I have max respect to those who love PVP, i dont' think that cause i love PVE games have to be without PVP as long as they don't ruin each other....
I'm totally against the idea to force players to do PVP missions to advance, i had some experiences in past with some kind of games and i abandoned them soon....and since i'm loving STO with all good and bad things please don't do that
After skimming the op and replies here, I've formed a kind of collective reply for the thread.
I've been in and out of this game since pre-launch... the ability to leave and come back was one of the primary reasons why I bought my LTS during the Beta. I did PvP back during the open beta, but have been a primary PvE player ever since launch.
It's not that I don't like PvP, my top games include the Unreal Tournament Series, Guild Wars, Starcraft, and the Mortal Kombat series (which i was a state finalist for MKII back in my youth).- I even was a beta tester for 10/Six, which like Eve, is a purely PvP environment. However here I so much other stuff to do that PvP just never made the "to do" list.
due to the new rep system however I found myself in need of Dil, and since I refuse to spend money on something that I can grind for free ( so sorry exchange people), I took my main into PvP for the 1,400 dil missions.
I went in expecting to get my rear end handed to me by far better equipped and more experience players, but since the mission didn't say I had to win anything I didn't care about killing or dying.
Tl/DR
My first three match's went as followed 12k/8D : 16K/10D : 8K:6D - not great by any means, but more kills then deaths is always good in my mind.
My main character is a Lib Borg Human, and has been around since launch. aside from her race, the only other Pay-To-Win equipment I had was the Red Matter Capacitor, and Automated Defense Turret ( and as any PvPer will tell you, that's a waste of a tactical console slot. :rolleyes: )
Despite getting a token for a free c-store ship when she hit 50, and a free 1,000 day vet ship waiting in the C-store - For character story preference she flies a Mirror Star Cruiser that I got from the exchange with E.C. that I farmed by doing the Tour The Universe Event. - the ship is geared with full borg set, and MK XII borg beams that was grinded for under the old system.
I went into PvP with a pretty solid STF build, which I expected not to be so hot from what I've read here. However, I was fully able to hold my own with some pretty stout players. I was able to out shield those pesky escort assaults and drag them into long drawn out battles of attrition which I generally won, I was able to out DPS shields of enemy sci ships shields, and I was able to tank blow for blow with the cruisers. - I even was fully winning in a fight that went 8 min against two klink allied D.D.'s until a BoP snuck into the fight and waxed my rear end while all my shield buffs were on cool down.
Yes there were plenty of times where someone flew in and blew my up in 2 seconds - but then I was able to return the favor more times then not. I am fully convinced that people can PvP with free gear as long as they're willing to grind to gear for it correctly, and have solid tactics in battle. Preparation is better the Persperation.
You bring up a good point with the BoP. That is essentially what most BoP pilots aim for in PvP. . .and that's why I, a BoP pilot, really don't like doing Arena combat. It's too fast. There isn't enough time to really structure a proper attack, or wait for a hole in the enemy's defenses to present itself. You end up having to use your BoP like an escort, and they simply don't do it as well as a proper escort/raptor/destroyer.
i dont know about you, but there is no point to play pvp, except if you wont to be caled the best pvp'er in the star trek. and i for once don't have any interes to be caled that.
i play pvp from time to time when i am bored and have nothing better to do.
BUT if there would be some sort of pink slip: ship, weapons, equipment, dilitium, ec... you get the picture, then i would play. that would be fun and challenging, whit a nice reword if you do well.
at present time i can play counter strike for pvp (that i dont play :P ), or world of tanks that is much more fun to play for pvp, HELL Planetside 2 is awesome for that.
I tried PvP and didnt liked it. The main reason was simply the bad skill activation mechanic in game. When I see one skill is clickable, but it refuses to activate until clicking it 3 times, there is something wrong with the system. Most times I was dead because of such failures.
I guess, the reasons are activation times for skills overlapping each other and not being shown in the GUI. Its a mayor flaw and makes PvP, where timing is everything, unplayable and no fun for me.
Additional I do not like arena fights. I started with Battlestar Galactica Online, open PvP almost everywhere, millions of possibilites. How often I dreamed we could hunt with a pack of bops, raiding innocent fed ships in the open space. But thats not how the game is working... so if I want PvP, I am playing Battlestar...
That's lag or something on someone's part, either yours or Cryptic's. I usually get it to work for me, but most PvPers prefer to use at least some keybinds for their more heavily-used abilities (Tactical Team, Cannon Rapidfire, EPtS, etc). Only when the game is really TRIBBLE around lag/rubberbanding-wise do I start having that problem. You're right, it really makes it hard to stay alive while under fire.
As for your dream of 'hunting with a pack of BoPs, raiding innocent Fed ships in the open space'. . .try Ker'rat. Seriously, try Ker'rat. Get any friends you know that PvP in a BoP, and hit up Ker'rat. It's perfect for that. It's the closest the game really gets to that sort of gameplay, I think.
The OP suggested PvP be part of advancing a character. Dumb idea. Fastest way I know to get me to stop playing STO at all or recommend the game to anyone else. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who thinks this, just someone who says it out loud.
Tried PvP. Didn't care for it. Too few maps. Too many elitists. Too much "L2P", "P2W" and "n00b!" Too small a reward for the effort. Don't really feel like I am being cheated out of anything by not doing PvP. Don't think I simply must PvP in order to be a "real" STO player either.
If the PvP crowd wants PvP repaired, then start with knocking off the attitude which everyone who tries it for the first time gets greeted with they wander into PvP. Beginning with phraseology.
I consider the term "n00b" as disgusting and offensive as the other N-word.
You want me to stick around? Fine. Make it worth my time. Make it enjoyable. PvP Bootcamp is a start. But it is only a start. Stop looking down your nose at me because I chose to not do PvP. Stop raising such a hue and cry over anything new which is added to the ships. This forum is overrun with threads asking the Dev Team to nerf or remove something because it ruins PvP. Unfortunately, the Devs have listened far too much in the past. And above all, stop presenting yourselves as the saviors of STO. You're just regular peons like all the rest of us. And I can guarantee I've spent just as much money on this game in the last six months as you have.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Mainly because I play what gives the largest profit.
It's a game about grinding so of course I will be where I can earn the most for my time served.
I always said pvp is for people who have nothing left to grind for, I still believe that.
The gameplay itself is 100 % predictable and un-inspiring. Either you 3 vs 1 them or they 3 vs 1 you.
Usually it's the fed side that gets teamed and you can't really do anything about it. But it felt just as sad when I played pvp as a klingon - there wasn't any sense of accomplisment or victory or anything.
So to me it's like I have to lose profit and provide gameplay for bored people ? No chance
I'd need like a regular job pay an hour, probably more, to even think about it.
I have plenty to grind for and I PvP. I just can't stand doing the same end-game PvE content over and over, so I kinda alternate between the two. Slows down my advancement quite a bit, but I don't really care.
I PvP from time to time, I even have a ship build dedicated to PvP (though being sci/sci and not a Vesta it doesn't see too much use) I agree with chainfall that the best gear should be from pvp rewards (preferably as per the old STF system for ease of access and believability).
Forcing pvp even for the right reasons is not the way to go about it, upgrading the PvE beyond *parks escort infront of target and starts firing* "now you see it" *target blows up* "now you don't" (insert boff here) "I'll send out the painting crews to cover the scratches" to something that requires thought is a better way to better prepare people for PvP.
I mean PvE is based on damage output, you either get a few paint scratches or you get 1 shotted, PvP is about skills, removing a target's ability to react to any incoming damage which requires teamwork, the polar opposite of PvE, this is what needs to change.
To summarise, we need to raise the level of thought and teamwork required in PvE by giving NPCs the skills needed to impede player progress, giving them a range of skills such that 1 player alone cannot counter everything that it throws their way to encourage teamwork, then adjust NPC damage to raise the minimum amount while lowering the maximum to remove the one hit kills we have now. A side effect of this is making tanks and debuffers more valuable, effective and practical, remove endgame NPC resistance to CC and you make science far more effective. Everyone wins and people are better prepared for PvP should they choose to get into it.
The good players want battles with guys who offer them a challenge. They want to know they have been in a fight and, win or lose, that they had to give it their all. New guys want a chance to make a difference rather than be an insta-kill for the elites, and they want an opportunity to learn and improve so they can some day fight with the elites. This proposal would accomplish all of that and more.
That is where you have lost the reality of the game. You are not wrong BUT "Good Players" are a rare commodity. The majority fall into one of two groups: The Killers who just want to insta-slaughter everything they meet with no chance of their enemy ever succeeding in the slightest way. The other group are the completely uninitiated who may wish to BE "Good Players" but just do not have the skill or practice to be able to put up a good fight.
Most in this game avoid PvP for these reasons:
1) The rewards for PvP are not good enough to bother compared to PvE.
2) Spawn Camping.
3) Premades steamrolling everything in their path.
4) IMMENSE disbalance via Reputation Passives, Lock-Box/C-Store/Fleet Ships and Fleet Equipment and Special DOFFs.
5) The huge gap between someone with a good connection and high speed computer vs. someone with an average connection or computer.
6) Extremely Rude PvP'ers who feel the need to be horrible sports rather they win or lose.
That is where you have lost the reality of the game. You are not wrong BUT "Good Players" are a rare commodity. The majority fall into one of two groups: The Killers who just want to insta-slaughter everything they meet with no chance of their enemy ever succeeding in the slightest way. The other group are the completely uninitiated who may wish to BE "Good Players" but just do not have the skill or practice to be able to put up a good fight.
Most in this game avoid PvP for these reasons:
1) The rewards for PvP are not good enough to bother compared to PvE.
2) Spawn Camping.
3) Premades steamrolling everything in their path.
4) IMMENSE disbalance via Reputation Passives, Lock-Box/C-Store/Fleet Ships and Fleet Equipment and Special DOFFs.
5) The huge gap between someone with a good connection and high speed computer vs. someone with an average connection or computer.
6) Extremely Rude PvP'ers who feel the need to be horrible sports rather they win or lose.
I would also add to the list that STO is a complex game with a lot of moving parts to learn even before getting into PvP and many players just don't want to spend the time necessary to perfect their builds to the point where they are marginally efficient in PvP. They don't want to spend money on every new Fleet ship or spend hundreds of hours in Tribble trying to figure out which combination of doffs, equipment, skills, and tactics gives them the extra 1% they need to be competitive.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
That is where you have lost the reality of the game. You are not wrong BUT "Good Players" are a rare commodity. The majority fall into one of two groups: The Killers who just want to insta-slaughter everything they meet with no chance of their enemy ever succeeding in the slightest way. The other group are the completely uninitiated who may wish to BE "Good Players" but just do not have the skill or practice to be able to put up a good fight.
Most in this game avoid PvP for these reasons:
1) The rewards for PvP are not good enough to bother compared to PvE.
2) Spawn Camping.
3) Premades steamrolling everything in their path.
4) IMMENSE disbalance via Reputation Passives, Lock-Box/C-Store/Fleet Ships and Fleet Equipment and Special DOFFs.
5) The huge gap between someone with a good connection and high speed computer vs. someone with an average connection or computer.
6) Extremely Rude PvP'ers who feel the need to be horrible sports rather they win or lose.
1. Easily fixed if Cryptic bothered to put a modicum of effort into supporting PvP directly.
2. Fixable if Cryptic randomized all spawnpoints on all maps entirely. Would require a bit of effort, which we have yet to receive from Cryptic.
3. That could be at least partially ameliorated by the introduction of a tiering system separating the super-elite players from the newcomers.
4. This is a valid concern, but can be overcome by other factors (numbers, player skill, etc). It's really a big concern when premade teams start slinging this stuff around everywhere they can.
5. I don't think this is that big of a gap, really. I run the game on a laptop and most small-scale skirmishes aren't that big of an issue except on occasion when the game is lagging unusually. I can still hold my own in PvP. Now, big fights involving lots of ships acting at once? That's a bit different. . .but I don't think even the 'better' computers handle that very well.
6. This is what the ignore button is for. People really need to learn to just use the damned ignore feature in-game if they don't like what someone's saying. Expecting the PvP community to perfectly self-moderate what people say is foolish. The PvE community doesn't manage it all that well either.
PVP = meh, .... pvp players are not fun to be around ... at all.
PVE = this is a fun game, and I feel like a starship captain and enjoy myself in the star trek universe.
Seems like someone has had a bad run in PvP. Not all PvP players are "not fun to be around". Look at the OPvP channel - some of the funniest people reside there.
You can feel like a starship captain in PvP as well. The battles are intense, much like in the Dominion War, Xindi battles, et al. In fact, PvE battles are diluted in terms of difficulty.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
1. Easily fixed if Cryptic bothered to put a modicum of effort into supporting PvP directly.
2. Fixable if Cryptic randomized all spawnpoints on all maps entirely. Would require a bit of effort, which we have yet to receive from Cryptic.
3. That could be at least partially ameliorated by the introduction of a tiering system separating the super-elite players from the newcomers.
4. This is a valid concern, but can be overcome by other factors (numbers, player skill, etc). It's really a big concern when premade teams start slinging this stuff around everywhere they can.
5. I don't think this is that big of a gap, really. I run the game on a laptop and most small-scale skirmishes aren't that big of an issue except on occasion when the game is lagging unusually. I can still hold my own in PvP. Now, big fights involving lots of ships acting at once? That's a bit different. . .but I don't think even the 'better' computers handle that very well.
6. This is what the ignore button is for. People really need to learn to just use the damned ignore feature in-game if they don't like what someone's saying. Expecting the PvP community to perfectly self-moderate what people say is foolish. The PvE community doesn't manage it all that well either.
1 & 2) Agreed... Now if only they would give PvP any TLC.
3) That would help a bit.
5) I can handle big engagements but I have a good connection and a good PC. I have been with others with lower end systems who get massively lagged by pet spam and thinks like Theta Vents/EWP which can make them crawl if they are on screen. Also mine spam and some effects like Cannon Scatter Volley with all turrets and cannons seems to get to them.
6) I agree but I have heard the complaint made time and again and many cite it as the reason they do not play PvP anymore.
PVP = meh, .... pvp players are not fun to be around ... at all.
PVE = this is a fun game, and I feel like a starship captain and enjoy myself in the star trek universe.
Actually my experience has been the opposite - in the majority of PvE PUGs I have run over the years (all the optional and attendance accolades for STFs on 2 feds and 1/2 way there with a klink) there is a much higher instance of elitist jerks who insult, berate, and intentionally TRIBBLE over teams that a) use different methods to complete an STF or b) contain a newer or inexperienced player. This is especially apparent in Elite STFs, and just plain painful in Crystalline Elite - every single time I have queued I have reported AT LEAST one player for harassment, even though it is seldom directed at me, and often multiple players who simply refuse to explain the tactics to new players, and simply resort to profane insults.
Whereas, in the PvP queues, even the worst, spammed out, most cheesy premade will at LEAST thank the opposing team for the match. There are a couple of bad apples, but once you have ignored the 5 or 6 total, you won't have to deal with them again. The worst stuff comes from the losing teams at times - the ubiquitous "Don't worry, I'm reporting you for hax." response to a loss is about the worst you ever see. On top of that, most, if not all, of the actual good PvP'ers are highly likely to respond to questions about building and playing in PvP - many times they will even offer advice to losing teams or players, especially if those players are using ships that the PvPer is familiar with.
And, to the point of adding more PvP maps - maybe a few more C&H maps would be nice, but since in almost every arena match ends up taking place about 30km above the map objects, and the actual map itself offers little opportunities to use the environment for tactical advantage, I don't really think that is a significant detractor to the PvP experience.
Mention has been made about fast computers with fast connections versus the lack thereof. I run a PC I built 7 years ago, from middle-of-the-road gaming parts. An off-the-shelf $200 wallly world all-in-one beats it on specs. I have a 1.5mb DSL connection (the slowest thing available in my entire state save Dialup) and one of the slowest forms of broadband you can still get (yes I know a few people still have 256, 512, or 768k DSL and there is at least one person I know in RL who is till using a 128k ISDN line for internet) and I don't have any lag or sync issues with STO, nor any significant graphics lag. That's is about the lowest you can get and still consider playing any modern game, and it still works just great for STO's dated graphics engine in PvP. That is a complete non-issue in my book.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
That is where you have lost the reality of the game. You are not wrong BUT "Good Players" are a rare commodity. The majority fall into one of two groups: The Killers who just want to insta-slaughter everything they meet with no chance of their enemy ever succeeding in the slightest way. The other group are the completely uninitiated who may wish to BE "Good Players" but just do not have the skill or practice to be able to put up a good fight.
Most in this game avoid PvP for these reasons:
1) The rewards for PvP are not good enough to bother compared to PvE.
2) Spawn Camping.
3) Premades steamrolling everything in their path.
4) IMMENSE disbalance via Reputation Passives, Lock-Box/C-Store/Fleet Ships and Fleet Equipment and Special DOFFs.
5) The huge gap between someone with a good connection and high speed computer vs. someone with an average connection or computer.
6) Extremely Rude PvP'ers who feel the need to be horrible sports rather they win or lose.
Where can i sign that?
I occasionally do some Ker'rat runs from time to time, but some peoples behaviour is just disgusting IMHO.
(because of RED)
As you can see my aversion against PvP has little to do with game mechanics, altrough there are BIG issues, but those look tiny compared to the bad PvP culture in Online Games.
Even if Cryptic would dedicate 5 seasons in order to fix PvP mechanics, i wouldn't do it, because the people doing PvP would be the same.
In my opinion, Cryptic should get rid of PvP in general, so they don't have to worry about making their ships balanced for PvP.
I would rather have some "real" Star Trek ships instead of those PvP adapted ships that have nothing to do with Star Trek.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
PVP being mandatory on an MMO can quickly kill off player base. The whole concept for most MMO's is it's there for your enjoyment, if you so choose to indulge in it, and nothing more than that. The biggest issue in most PVP scenarios is over thought out builds versus weak to good ones, and yes player skill does factor into all of this as to how well someone might do in a match. To fix the problem requires completely limiting the whole build concept, and instead throw people together as exact clones thus making it come down to player skill only, and most people would find that uninteresting, so it is what it is and nothing more.
Many games are pretty much all PvP and they prosper. STO has one of the most dynamic combat systems out there, and yet PvP fails here. Why?
Well, learning curve is the main issue.
In your opinion it may be true for some, but not all...
Some don't PVP because of the arrogance of certain types of players who assume they know everything about everything and their opinion is the only valid opinion.
Some don't PVP because they don't care for people who feel PVP needs to be shoved down everyone's throats whether they like it or not because the only way to truly have "fun" in a game is to play against other players.
I'm guessing there are quite a few reasons why people may not choose to participate in PVP aside from the fact they're just "stupid" and are unable to learn effective strategies on their own.
Personally, the day PvP gets forced on me, is the last day I play this game, at least with the way PvP, and equipment runs nowadays.
If I want PvP, I'll enter a PvP match, thank you very much.
And I much prefer PvP's, where the match doesn't last seconds, where it takes work, strategy, and tactics, to pull down your opponent, ala Total War. Different Genre, maybe, but same idea, unless someone just screws up badly, you're not going to ever insta-kill someone, in that game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
its too unbalenced is why so few really take pvp seriously and even fewer spend any effort on it after they try it
It could be balenced with all of the current toys and ships if a combat value was assigned to each part of the ship and each Boff and Doff that represented there combat value
Total this value up and then assige a combat value total to the team
for instance if a jhas had a combat value of 5000 and a match was 5000 points it could face as many as 5 1000 point ships
this system was used in battletech with sucess
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
its too unbalenced is why so few really take pvp seriously and even fewer spend any effort on it after they try it
It could be balenced with all of the current toys and ships if a combat value was assigned to each part of the ship and each Boff and Doff that represented there combat value
Total this value up and then assige a combat value total to the team
for instance if a jhas had a combat value of 5000 and a match was 5000 points it could face as many as 5 1000 point ships
this system was used in battletech with sucess
Yeah but than it comes down to what is considered a fair point value, and that can be a vastly decisive problem.
This post is a bit long-winded, so this is for the TL;DR people:
If you go into a PvP match with your fragile ego as your primary shields and expect to come out of it smelling like an old British actor playing a French captain, you're going to be highly disappointed...
With that said:
IMO, the reason people don't PvP as much here is because most Trek fans are more into the story and exploration aspect of Star Trek. I certainly was in that group the first 4 months of this game. Then gradually, I was logging in to PvP (Ground then Space) a lil more than half the time I was on, up to today where I'm about 98% PvP. Yeah, there's a bit of a learning curve at first, but that's with anything. No, I'm not an elite PVPer who jumps from game to game - this is my first MMO. Yes, P2W and Lockbox ships can make a huge difference when they are in the hands of great PvP players. I don't care - I think the PvP in this game is fun, so I keep doing it.
But what makes me the exception to the standard Trek fans who play? Why didn't I run crying from PvP after the first time the IKS U Ded blew me to bits, or Captain Klingz'Rool pummeled my Fed character in Ground and typed "Haha, n00b!" in Zone?
I guess it's because I don't log into this game pretending I'm an armchair Kirk or Picard. I'm me, and I don't accept defeat. When I log into my characters, it's not about being in a pretend episode where everything works out fine in the end. It's about me using an "avatar" that's made for combat, and I'm going to engage in a fight with other players. And yes, I got my chance to say "Haha, n00b!" to the Klingz'Rool guy because of that tenacity AND disconnect from my said "avatar.".
MOST Trek fans don't know how to deal with the REAL No Win Scenario, which is primarily about facing your end. Their role models - the captains of Star Trek - never died, so when someone comes out of nowhere and pops their ship or disintegrates their character, it's as if they died a little inside. It's like you did it to them personally. They are not prepared to lose in combat, which is ironically the very thing that can motivate you the most to stay alive.
Comments
It's a game about grinding so of course I will be where I can earn the most for my time served.
I always said pvp is for people who have nothing left to grind for, I still believe that.
The gameplay itself is 100 % predictable and un-inspiring. Either you 3 vs 1 them or they 3 vs 1 you.
Usually it's the fed side that gets teamed and you can't really do anything about it. But it felt just as sad when I played pvp as a klingon - there wasn't any sense of accomplisment or victory or anything.
So to me it's like I have to lose profit and provide gameplay for bored people ? No chance
I'd need like a regular job pay an hour, probably more, to even think about it.
For me the answer is simple...i don't like PVP, i did occasionally in some game but if i can i avoid it, i love PVE, just that.
I have max respect to those who love PVP, i dont' think that cause i love PVE games have to be without PVP as long as they don't ruin each other....
I'm totally against the idea to force players to do PVP missions to advance, i had some experiences in past with some kind of games and i abandoned them soon....and since i'm loving STO with all good and bad things please don't do that
You bring up a good point with the BoP. That is essentially what most BoP pilots aim for in PvP. . .and that's why I, a BoP pilot, really don't like doing Arena combat. It's too fast. There isn't enough time to really structure a proper attack, or wait for a hole in the enemy's defenses to present itself. You end up having to use your BoP like an escort, and they simply don't do it as well as a proper escort/raptor/destroyer.
i play pvp from time to time when i am bored and have nothing better to do.
BUT if there would be some sort of pink slip: ship, weapons, equipment, dilitium, ec... you get the picture, then i would play. that would be fun and challenging, whit a nice reword if you do well.
at present time i can play counter strike for pvp (that i dont play :P ), or world of tanks that is much more fun to play for pvp, HELL Planetside 2 is awesome for that.
That's lag or something on someone's part, either yours or Cryptic's. I usually get it to work for me, but most PvPers prefer to use at least some keybinds for their more heavily-used abilities (Tactical Team, Cannon Rapidfire, EPtS, etc). Only when the game is really TRIBBLE around lag/rubberbanding-wise do I start having that problem. You're right, it really makes it hard to stay alive while under fire.
As for your dream of 'hunting with a pack of BoPs, raiding innocent Fed ships in the open space'. . .try Ker'rat. Seriously, try Ker'rat. Get any friends you know that PvP in a BoP, and hit up Ker'rat. It's perfect for that. It's the closest the game really gets to that sort of gameplay, I think.
Tried PvP. Didn't care for it. Too few maps. Too many elitists. Too much "L2P", "P2W" and "n00b!" Too small a reward for the effort. Don't really feel like I am being cheated out of anything by not doing PvP. Don't think I simply must PvP in order to be a "real" STO player either.
If the PvP crowd wants PvP repaired, then start with knocking off the attitude which everyone who tries it for the first time gets greeted with they wander into PvP. Beginning with phraseology.
I consider the term "n00b" as disgusting and offensive as the other N-word.
You want me to stick around? Fine. Make it worth my time. Make it enjoyable. PvP Bootcamp is a start. But it is only a start. Stop looking down your nose at me because I chose to not do PvP. Stop raising such a hue and cry over anything new which is added to the ships. This forum is overrun with threads asking the Dev Team to nerf or remove something because it ruins PvP. Unfortunately, the Devs have listened far too much in the past. And above all, stop presenting yourselves as the saviors of STO. You're just regular peons like all the rest of us. And I can guarantee I've spent just as much money on this game in the last six months as you have.
I have plenty to grind for and I PvP. I just can't stand doing the same end-game PvE content over and over, so I kinda alternate between the two. Slows down my advancement quite a bit, but I don't really care.
Forcing pvp even for the right reasons is not the way to go about it, upgrading the PvE beyond *parks escort infront of target and starts firing* "now you see it" *target blows up* "now you don't" (insert boff here) "I'll send out the painting crews to cover the scratches" to something that requires thought is a better way to better prepare people for PvP.
I mean PvE is based on damage output, you either get a few paint scratches or you get 1 shotted, PvP is about skills, removing a target's ability to react to any incoming damage which requires teamwork, the polar opposite of PvE, this is what needs to change.
To summarise, we need to raise the level of thought and teamwork required in PvE by giving NPCs the skills needed to impede player progress, giving them a range of skills such that 1 player alone cannot counter everything that it throws their way to encourage teamwork, then adjust NPC damage to raise the minimum amount while lowering the maximum to remove the one hit kills we have now. A side effect of this is making tanks and debuffers more valuable, effective and practical, remove endgame NPC resistance to CC and you make science far more effective. Everyone wins and people are better prepared for PvP should they choose to get into it.
That is where you have lost the reality of the game. You are not wrong BUT "Good Players" are a rare commodity. The majority fall into one of two groups: The Killers who just want to insta-slaughter everything they meet with no chance of their enemy ever succeeding in the slightest way. The other group are the completely uninitiated who may wish to BE "Good Players" but just do not have the skill or practice to be able to put up a good fight.
Most in this game avoid PvP for these reasons:
1) The rewards for PvP are not good enough to bother compared to PvE.
2) Spawn Camping.
3) Premades steamrolling everything in their path.
4) IMMENSE disbalance via Reputation Passives, Lock-Box/C-Store/Fleet Ships and Fleet Equipment and Special DOFFs.
5) The huge gap between someone with a good connection and high speed computer vs. someone with an average connection or computer.
6) Extremely Rude PvP'ers who feel the need to be horrible sports rather they win or lose.
PVP = meh, .... pvp players are not fun to be around ... at all.
PVE = this is a fun game, and I feel like a starship captain and enjoy myself in the star trek universe.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
1. Easily fixed if Cryptic bothered to put a modicum of effort into supporting PvP directly.
2. Fixable if Cryptic randomized all spawnpoints on all maps entirely. Would require a bit of effort, which we have yet to receive from Cryptic.
3. That could be at least partially ameliorated by the introduction of a tiering system separating the super-elite players from the newcomers.
4. This is a valid concern, but can be overcome by other factors (numbers, player skill, etc). It's really a big concern when premade teams start slinging this stuff around everywhere they can.
5. I don't think this is that big of a gap, really. I run the game on a laptop and most small-scale skirmishes aren't that big of an issue except on occasion when the game is lagging unusually. I can still hold my own in PvP. Now, big fights involving lots of ships acting at once? That's a bit different. . .but I don't think even the 'better' computers handle that very well.
6. This is what the ignore button is for. People really need to learn to just use the damned ignore feature in-game if they don't like what someone's saying. Expecting the PvP community to perfectly self-moderate what people say is foolish. The PvE community doesn't manage it all that well either.
there's your sign..
cause sometimes its party time!
Seems like someone has had a bad run in PvP. Not all PvP players are "not fun to be around". Look at the OPvP channel - some of the funniest people reside there.
You can feel like a starship captain in PvP as well. The battles are intense, much like in the Dominion War, Xindi battles, et al. In fact, PvE battles are diluted in terms of difficulty.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
1 & 2) Agreed... Now if only they would give PvP any TLC.
3) That would help a bit.
5) I can handle big engagements but I have a good connection and a good PC. I have been with others with lower end systems who get massively lagged by pet spam and thinks like Theta Vents/EWP which can make them crawl if they are on screen. Also mine spam and some effects like Cannon Scatter Volley with all turrets and cannons seems to get to them.
6) I agree but I have heard the complaint made time and again and many cite it as the reason they do not play PvP anymore.
Actually my experience has been the opposite - in the majority of PvE PUGs I have run over the years (all the optional and attendance accolades for STFs on 2 feds and 1/2 way there with a klink) there is a much higher instance of elitist jerks who insult, berate, and intentionally TRIBBLE over teams that a) use different methods to complete an STF or b) contain a newer or inexperienced player. This is especially apparent in Elite STFs, and just plain painful in Crystalline Elite - every single time I have queued I have reported AT LEAST one player for harassment, even though it is seldom directed at me, and often multiple players who simply refuse to explain the tactics to new players, and simply resort to profane insults.
Whereas, in the PvP queues, even the worst, spammed out, most cheesy premade will at LEAST thank the opposing team for the match. There are a couple of bad apples, but once you have ignored the 5 or 6 total, you won't have to deal with them again. The worst stuff comes from the losing teams at times - the ubiquitous "Don't worry, I'm reporting you for hax." response to a loss is about the worst you ever see. On top of that, most, if not all, of the actual good PvP'ers are highly likely to respond to questions about building and playing in PvP - many times they will even offer advice to losing teams or players, especially if those players are using ships that the PvPer is familiar with.
And, to the point of adding more PvP maps - maybe a few more C&H maps would be nice, but since in almost every arena match ends up taking place about 30km above the map objects, and the actual map itself offers little opportunities to use the environment for tactical advantage, I don't really think that is a significant detractor to the PvP experience.
Mention has been made about fast computers with fast connections versus the lack thereof. I run a PC I built 7 years ago, from middle-of-the-road gaming parts. An off-the-shelf $200 wallly world all-in-one beats it on specs. I have a 1.5mb DSL connection (the slowest thing available in my entire state save Dialup) and one of the slowest forms of broadband you can still get (yes I know a few people still have 256, 512, or 768k DSL and there is at least one person I know in RL who is till using a 128k ISDN line for internet) and I don't have any lag or sync issues with STO, nor any significant graphics lag. That's is about the lowest you can get and still consider playing any modern game, and it still works just great for STO's dated graphics engine in PvP. That is a complete non-issue in my book.
Cheers!
I occasionally do some Ker'rat runs from time to time, but some peoples behaviour is just disgusting IMHO.
(because of RED)
As you can see my aversion against PvP has little to do with game mechanics, altrough there are BIG issues, but those look tiny compared to the bad PvP culture in Online Games.
Even if Cryptic would dedicate 5 seasons in order to fix PvP mechanics, i wouldn't do it, because the people doing PvP would be the same.
In my opinion, Cryptic should get rid of PvP in general, so they don't have to worry about making their ships balanced for PvP.
I would rather have some "real" Star Trek ships instead of those PvP adapted ships that have nothing to do with Star Trek.
no, not a bad run in...I just choose to stay away from the poor community and feather ruffling.
I play sto for the sci-fi experience, not the childish expletives.
I dont do STF's (or any PUGS) either for the same reason.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
In your opinion it may be true for some, but not all...
Some don't PVP because of the arrogance of certain types of players who assume they know everything about everything and their opinion is the only valid opinion.
Some don't PVP because they don't care for people who feel PVP needs to be shoved down everyone's throats whether they like it or not because the only way to truly have "fun" in a game is to play against other players.
I'm guessing there are quite a few reasons why people may not choose to participate in PVP aside from the fact they're just "stupid" and are unable to learn effective strategies on their own.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
If I want PvP, I'll enter a PvP match, thank you very much.
And I much prefer PvP's, where the match doesn't last seconds, where it takes work, strategy, and tactics, to pull down your opponent, ala Total War. Different Genre, maybe, but same idea, unless someone just screws up badly, you're not going to ever insta-kill someone, in that game.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
The healer, dps, tank trinity is seriously broken and needs to be addressed.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
It could be balenced with all of the current toys and ships if a combat value was assigned to each part of the ship and each Boff and Doff that represented there combat value
Total this value up and then assige a combat value total to the team
for instance if a jhas had a combat value of 5000 and a match was 5000 points it could face as many as 5 1000 point ships
this system was used in battletech with sucess
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Yeah but than it comes down to what is considered a fair point value, and that can be a vastly decisive problem.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Well to be honest I've been playing Arena style games since 1995 Quake and I'm a tad bored of it. That's 18 years ago. 18 years.<----
If you go into a PvP match with your fragile ego as your primary shields and expect to come out of it smelling like an old British actor playing a French captain, you're going to be highly disappointed...
With that said:
IMO, the reason people don't PvP as much here is because most Trek fans are more into the story and exploration aspect of Star Trek. I certainly was in that group the first 4 months of this game. Then gradually, I was logging in to PvP (Ground then Space) a lil more than half the time I was on, up to today where I'm about 98% PvP. Yeah, there's a bit of a learning curve at first, but that's with anything. No, I'm not an elite PVPer who jumps from game to game - this is my first MMO. Yes, P2W and Lockbox ships can make a huge difference when they are in the hands of great PvP players. I don't care - I think the PvP in this game is fun, so I keep doing it.
But what makes me the exception to the standard Trek fans who play? Why didn't I run crying from PvP after the first time the IKS U Ded blew me to bits, or Captain Klingz'Rool pummeled my Fed character in Ground and typed "Haha, n00b!" in Zone?
I guess it's because I don't log into this game pretending I'm an armchair Kirk or Picard. I'm me, and I don't accept defeat. When I log into my characters, it's not about being in a pretend episode where everything works out fine in the end. It's about me using an "avatar" that's made for combat, and I'm going to engage in a fight with other players. And yes, I got my chance to say "Haha, n00b!" to the Klingz'Rool guy because of that tenacity AND disconnect from my said "avatar.".
MOST Trek fans don't know how to deal with the REAL No Win Scenario, which is primarily about facing your end. Their role models - the captains of Star Trek - never died, so when someone comes out of nowhere and pops their ship or disintegrates their character, it's as if they died a little inside. It's like you did it to them personally. They are not prepared to lose in combat, which is ironically the very thing that can motivate you the most to stay alive.
I disagree.
It's the core fundamental mechanic of an mmorpg and losing the variety in roles devoids the game of interesting, strategic gameplay.
STO PvP has no fundamental team tactics beyond pew pew
the core fundamental of an antiquated system that doesnt fufill the vastness of ingame interactions anymore....games have evolved my friend,.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----