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Fleet Miranda (Light Cruiser)

thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
edited October 2013 in Federation Discussion
Okay, so anyways, I doubt I'm the first to propose this, but I genuinely have always liked the design of the Miranda Class starship. I also think it's a bit of a shame we don't have something more reflective of the current times with it in terms of capability. So, here's a proposed idea for a Fleet Variant. This is completely off of the top of my head btw so forgive any numbers please if they seem a little 'out there'. Also, if anyone has any 'better' (Read: More in line with existing ships) versions for this idea, feel free to post it, I welcome the ideas on this.


Fleet Light Cruiser Retrofit:

Hull; 35000
Crew; 200
Shield mod; 1.1
Fore Weapon Slots; 4
Aft Weapon Slots; 3
Device Slots; 3
Base Turn; 15
Inertia Rating: 50
Impulse Mod; 0.60
Bridge Officer Slots; Cmdr Tactical, Lt. Tactical, Lt. Cmdr Engineering, Ensign Engineering, Lt. Science, Ensign Universal.
Consoles: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science.
+10 Weapons Power, +5 to all other power levels.
Can Load Dual/Dual Heavy Cannons.

Basically in a nutshell, the Light Cruiser was pretty much made to be a 'blend' of Science Vessel, Escort, and Cruiser just without the heightened power levels and extensive crew/hull of higher tier cruisers, and without the inbuilt Science Vessel effects, but allowing the normally 'escort only' ability to load both dual and dual heavy cannons. The 'Fleet Light Cruiser' reflects this in that it's really a 'master of none' type build which is shown by it having the hull ratings and turn rate of some of the 'heavier' Escorts almost, and while it is a little more oriented towards Tactical it's more 'balanced' and can effectively fulfill any role based on the player's preference. In essence the ship is designed to be a 'blend' of Escort and Cruiser while having not inconsiderable science abilities. Anyways, that's my idea, it's really just something I came up with while bull****ting around in my old Starter Miranda Class in some Deep Space Encounters. Tell me what you guys think and any feedback or 'tweaks' to this idea is more than welcome. Hopefully someone on the Dev. Team get's wind of this and we might just see it happen. As for costs, say it would take a T-1 shipyard or poss. T-2, 4 FSM's as always and say something like 15-20k Fleet Credit, in other words, pretty much what other 'fleet ships' cost.
erei1 wrote: »
I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
Post edited by thunderhawk101 on
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Comments

  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Fleet Light Cruiser Retrofit:

    Hull; 35000
    Crew; 200
    Shield mod; 1.1
    Fore Weapon Slots; 4
    Aft Weapon Slots; 3
    Device Slots; 3
    Base Turn; 15
    Inertia Rating: 50
    Impulse Mod; 0.60
    Bridge Officer Slots; Cmdr Tactical, Lt. Tactical, Lt. Cmdr Engineering, Ensign Engineering, Lt. Science, Ensign Universal.
    Consoles: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science.
    +10 Weapons Power, +5 to all other power levels.
    Can Load Dual/Dual Heavy Cannons.

    Well it looks fairly well thought out, I pulled up a couple of ships to look up some base stats so I could place the base hull and I think 37250 would be more cruisery, I can see why you opted for 4/3 weapons however this harms broadsiding, I would as such go for 4/4 weapon slots (as per the Breen ship) and drop the slightly ambitious turn rate to 11 or 12 (more in line with the KDF battlecruisers rather than escorts), I would also have a 1.0 shield mod to reflect it's "light cruiser"-ness (though that is just me).

    An impulse mod of 0.6 is going to outpace almost everything out there, the Excelsior only has 0.15 and the FPE has 0.2 so I'd probably place the Miranda at 0.16 maybe 0.175 I do agree with the inertia rating though :). I see you broke the traditional CMDR engineer on cruisers, I wont complain however :P, I would lose the ensign engineer as you have one too many boffs on there and the ensign uni is more useful to the ship (though I'd rather see the Lt Tac and ensign uni swapped as the current layout looks too much like a mirror Breen ship :P).

    The comsole layout is spot on for the boff layout but you only have 20 bonus power to play with rather than the 25 you've used, I would lose the aux power bonus (one can use an overcharged warp core to cover it), other than that I would probably buy it and with a Lt eng run one of those Aux2Batts you hate so much :P
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited July 2013
    CBS has said no to this idea already. No T5 Miranda, Connie, NX, Oberth etc.

    Have you considered an Unconvential BOFF layout? 3 Lt Com (1 each) & a Uni Liutenant (11 powers, 1 less than standard) but it would suit the Jack of all Trades master of none motif. I think am Escort turn rate is too high 10 or 11 would be good.

    I think 4/4 weapons makes sense. And I also think 9 Consoles, 3 of each would suit it's roll better. Or perhaps put the 10th console in Science or Engineering. In all honesty we don't want this thing becoming an escort. +5 to all Systems rather than the +10 to weapons, +5 to everything else.

    Isn't the upgrade to the Miranda meant to be the Nebula? If the original looked like a reconfigured Connie and the Nebula looks like a Reconfigured Galaxy it makes sense right?
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
    If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
    When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
  • thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    CBS has said no to this idea already. No T5 Miranda, Connie, NX, Oberth etc.

    Have you considered an Unconvential BOFF layout? 3 Lt Com (1 each) & a Uni Liutenant (11 powers, 1 less than standard) but it would suit the Jack of all Trades master of none motif. I think am Escort turn rate is too high 10 or 11 would be good.

    I think 4/4 weapons makes sense. And I also think 9 Consoles, 3 of each would suit it's roll better. Or perhaps put the 10th console in Science or Engineering. In all honesty we don't want this thing becoming an escort. +5 to all Systems rather than the +10 to weapons, +5 to everything else.

    Isn't the upgrade to the Miranda meant to be the Nebula? If the original looked like a reconfigured Connie and the Nebula looks like a Reconfigured Galaxy it makes sense right?

    Granted yeah, at the same time I was rather tired when I came up with this and also maybe a little bit drunk. The real reason I decided on three aft weapons was because being able to load DC's/DHC's it might have been a 'little too much' imo with the plan of having it turn more like an escort than anything. As for the BOFF layout, I admit, your idea with that would work better with the 'master of none' idea.
    EDIT: Not only that but it would also be a bit 'different' and would be something we'd never seen before on a 'T-5' grade Starship.
    erei1 wrote: »
    I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
  • kylelockekylelocke Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Rather than a standard Miranda, have you considered the Soyuz from Cause and Effect?
    "I will make the Orion Syndicate face the light of justice or burn them with it." - Captainl Kyle Nathaniel Locke, U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-98105-C
  • thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    kylelocke wrote: »
    Rather than a standard Miranda, have you considered the Soyuz from Cause and Effect?

    I certainly have, mostly as an 'alternate' skin unique to the fleet version similar to how the old C-Store skins are now used for 'fleet' versions of most ships like the Imperial Class skin for the Assault Cruiser.
    erei1 wrote: »
    I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Isn't the upgrade to the Miranda meant to be the Nebula? If the original looked like a reconfigured Connie and the Nebula looks like a Reconfigured Galaxy it makes sense right?
    My view is that the Miranda was always a more economical/efficient design than the Connie, which goes towards explaining in-universe why we still see Miranda-class ships flying around the galaxy some 80 years later in TNG, but absolutely no Constitution-class ships, refit or otherwise. It was just a better design for a 'workhorse' type of ship, while the Excelsior-class ships were better for a 'heavy cruiser' type of ship which the Connie falls under.

    I feel the same way about the Galaxy, as far as the shows go we initially don't see many of them. The only time we see one in TNG other than the Enterprise it was destroyed (or it was an illusion, in both cases it was the USS Yamato which was described as the Enterprise's sister ship - implying that there weren't any other Galaxy-class ships around at that time other than perhaps the first flight prototype USS Galaxy). It would take DS9 to be the first to introduce us to other Galaxy-class ships, like the USS Odyssey and USS Venture (Voyager gave us USS Challenger, but that was an alternate timeline - I'm willing to include it though). But in TNG we saw Nebula-class ships more times than we saw Galaxy class ships! (USS Phoenix in 'The Wounded', USS Sutherland in 'Redemption part 2', and USS Faragut in Generations; I don't know if the USS Bellerphon is visible in the Wolf 359 graveyard scene, but it was there as we saw a Nebula-class ship participate in that battle in DS9's 'Emissary')

    Anyway, I think the Nebula probably falls under the same kind of design role the Miranda fulfilled for the Constitution-class: a lighter version of a heavy cruiser like the Galaxy.
  • edited July 2013
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  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    CBS has said no to this idea already. No T5 Miranda, Connie, NX, Oberth etc.
    And they also said no letting the entire playerbase have at a "non faction ship", yet we had the second breen invasion at ESD this winter... Therefore a CBS "No" does not equal "will never happen"... Hence our pushes...
    Isn't the upgrade to the Miranda meant to be the Nebula? If the original looked like a reconfigured Connie and the Nebula looks like a Reconfigured Galaxy it makes sense right?
    If you mean Connie -> Galaxy, Miranda -> Nebula, then yes, it is.

    On that note, while I support anyone asking for older ships, I am pushing for the ToS Connie and the NX, so that all 6 "hero" ships of the various "eras" would be represented. TMP era already has the Excelsior in game, so trying to add the Miranda, also introduced in TMP, would be a bit redundant... What would the trick behind a T5 Miranda be, besides being a TMP-era "escort" to the Oberth in Sci and Excelsior Cruiser?
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    dareau wrote: »
    On that note, while I support anyone asking for older ships, I am pushing for the ToS Connie and the NX, so that all 6 "hero" ships of the various "eras" would be represented. TMP era already has the Excelsior in game, so trying to add the Miranda, also introduced in TMP, would be a bit redundant... What would the trick behind a T5 Miranda be, besides being a TMP-era "escort" to the Oberth in Sci and Excelsior Cruiser?

    Honestly? No real reason behind the idea mostly because I doubt it'll happen. I really just kinda threw it together because I could. Well, that and time and again in game all people care about more and more is 'dps' I understand that and the reason why it's there. However, according to what we've seen, 99% of Starfleet designs and ships were not made exclusively for combat purpose. Rather, Starfleet vessels were, with the few dedicated role exceptions, designed to be the 'swiss army knife' in space. This was kinda to represent that, it's a ship that really 'excels' at no one task, but can more or less fill any role depending on how you 'build it'.
    erei1 wrote: »
    I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
  • thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Merian_class
    this is the successor to the miranda hull.
    also, the ships a destroyer, not a frigate or light cruiser

    Sorry about the 'back to back' posts, but yeah, while that is true based on the canon established in the novels which cover 'Project Full Circle', and while I have looked at other canon Miranda variants and 'updates'. It really is kinda a moot point for us to discuss the 'skin' of the ship so to speak, arguably the whole subject is a moot point as well, but what I'm getting at is that if/when it get's done it doesn't matter what the 'skin' looks like or if they release the Merian as an entirely seperate ship altogether. At the same time while I respect the fact that the 'offical' classification so to speak for the Miranda and it's variants is 'Destroyer' type, I'm going off of what's already 'in game', and in game it's called the 'light cruiser'.
    erei1 wrote: »
    I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    CBS has said no to this idea already. No T5 Miranda, Connie, NX, Oberth etc.

    Have you considered an Unconvential BOFF layout? 3 Lt Com (1 each) & a Uni Liutenant (11 powers, 1 less than standard) but it would suit the Jack of all Trades master of none motif. I think am Escort turn rate is too high 10 or 11 would be good.

    I think 4/4 weapons makes sense. And I also think 9 Consoles, 3 of each would suit it's roll better. Or perhaps put the 10th console in Science or Engineering. In all honesty we don't want this thing becoming an escort. +5 to all Systems rather than the +10 to weapons, +5 to everything else.

    Isn't the upgrade to the Miranda meant to be the Nebula? If the original looked like a reconfigured Connie and the Nebula looks like a Reconfigured Galaxy it makes sense right?



    CBS vetoed the Original Series Constitution Class.

    As for the others, do you have a reputable source, or is this just hearsay?




    From stofsk...

    Quote:
    My view is that the Miranda was always a more economical/efficient design than the Connie, which goes towards explaining in-universe why we still see Miranda-class ships flying around the galaxy some 80 years later in TNG, but absolutely no Constitution-class ships, refit or otherwise. It was just a better design for a 'workhorse' type of ship, while the Excelsior-class ships were better for a 'heavy cruiser' type of ship which the Connie falls under.



    There was a Constitution Class vessel at Wolf 359. There was wreckage of such in the debris field (Star Trek III destruction sequence model was used). So, that would imply that there were a few still in service as of 2367.


    The Miranda always struck me as a good "workhorse" design, good for a variety of tasks. That is part of what made it so common, from my point of view. Even a century after the first hull was laid down. You don't mess with success. Same goes for the Oberth and Excelsior classes.

    Of course, this is from an in-universe POV. The real world reason is they used the older vessels in TNG due to production costs.
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited July 2013
    CBS vetoed the Original Series Constitution Class.

    As for the others, do you have a reputable source, or is this just hearsay?

    Your right it is Hearsay, but surely with people asking for this ship since day 1, they'd have done something right?

    I take the veto to mean all the old outdated T1 vessels.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
    If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
    When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
  • thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Your right it is Hearsay, but surely with people asking for this ship since day 1, they'd have done something right?

    I take the veto to mean all the old outdated T1 vessels.

    I can understand that, at the same time, they might well have plans to do that eventually or something similar to it, but at the same time they also have a schedule at cryptic they have to meet with other projects, expansions, coding new missions for the next Featured Episode or something like that. So something like a T-5 version of the Miranda/Constitution would likely be on the 'back burner' until the dev team can get to the point where they have time to work on it a little bit at a time.
    erei1 wrote: »
    I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
  • vermatrixvermatrix Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Considering no one wants to be in a fleet unless it has a tier 5 shipyard I seriously doubt anyone would use one if they did add a fleet version of the Miranda. on a side note, how about a fleet version of the Tuffli class freighter? :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mourkothmourkoth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    CBS has said no to this idea already. No T5 Miranda, Connie, NX, Oberth etc.

    This might require some form of tangible evidence. Something official would be preferred.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Keep in mind that the Miranda comes with the Centaur and Shi'kar skins which are 24th/25th century designs.

    I'd be all for T5 versions of light cruisers. If you refer to DS9, what everyone here is so fond of because "pewpew!", Mirandas had the same function in battle as the Defiant had (they formed a squad, performed worse but still same purpose). I'd like to see lighter ships at T5 maybe even sporting only 3/2 weapon slots but make up for it somehow. I oppose the idea of DHC however. Those pesky cannons have to vanish at least from Starfleet vessels, otherwise there is NO reason to use anything else and then we'd have the Star Wars game everyone here wants to play ;)
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Keep in mind that the Miranda comes with the Centaur and Shi'kar skins which are 24th/25th century designs.

    I'd be all for T5 versions of light cruisers. If you refer to DS9, what everyone here is so fond of because "pewpew!", Mirandas had the same function in battle as the Defiant had (they formed a squad, performed worse but still same purpose). I'd like to see lighter ships at T5 maybe even sporting only 3/2 weapon slots but make up for it somehow. I oppose the idea of DHC however. Those pesky cannons have to vanish at least from Starfleet vessels, otherwise there is NO reason to use anything else and then we'd have the Star Wars game everyone here wants to play ;)

    actually, the Centaur was seen only in DS9, but the design is late 23rd century.

    It's an Excelsior kitbash, so you argue that it was the light cruiser version to the Excelsior class as the Miranda was to the Constitution.
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    timelord79 wrote: »
    actually, the Centaur was seen only in DS9, but the design is late 23rd century.

    It's an Excelsior kitbash, so you argue that it was the light cruiser version to the Excelsior class as the Miranda was to the Constitution.

    The Centaur is not a "Miranda out of Excelsior parts".:)
    While the DS9TM states this, it's utter rubbish. The drawing in tha book also only remotely match the Centaur as we saw her in the shows.The ship is a whole lot smaller than it would be if the Centuar were based on an Excelsior saucer.

    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/ds9tm.htm#centaur

    "[...]Hutzel saw it, he wanted it for his Episode with the JH Bug. I added more detail at this point to make sure the scale looked like a smaller ship even tho' it was an Excelsior dish."
  • edited July 2013
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  • displayname707displayname707 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I always liked the idea to slap huge hull numbers to tiny ships... Miranda is like 10 times smaller and proposed hull strgenght is only 7000 less than oddys, makes sense.

    10k hull maybe to be correct with canon -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjQovy11vpk

    So they actually would get 1-shot! ;)
  • thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I always liked the idea to slap huge hull numbers to tiny ships... Miranda is like 10 times smaller and proposed hull strgenght is only 7000 less than oddys, makes sense.

    10k hull maybe to be correct with canon -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjQovy11vpk

    So they actually would get 1-shot! ;)

    So how, exactly do you explain the In-game version of the Defiant Class, which is 'smaller' than the Miranda, Yet the 'fleet version' has 33k 'base' hull? Do tell?
    erei1 wrote: »
    I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
  • edited July 2013
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  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited July 2013
    So how, exactly do you explain the In-game version of the Defiant Class, which is 'smaller' than the Miranda, Yet the 'fleet version' has 33k 'base' hull? Do tell?

    Hull is amplified by Structural integrity fields, obviously the Defiant has a more intense field than other ships of it's size. Also it's not full of sci labs and frivolous stuff like other vessels.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
    If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
    When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
  • thunderhawk101thunderhawk101 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hull is amplified by Structural integrity fields, obviously the Defiant has a more intense field than other ships of it's size. Also it's not full of sci labs and frivolous stuff like other vessels.

    Indeed, however the previous poster made no mention of this whatsoever. Granted the Defiant Class generally and likely does have, a stronger S.I.F. however, what's there to stop a tech upgrade to the existing S.I.F. Emitters on an older vessel to 'bring it up to snuff'?
    erei1 wrote: »
    I enjoy this kind of thread. It's like farting in the air to fight the wind. It's poetic, childish and completely useless.
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hull isn't equal to mass.

    Of course a bigger ship has more hull surface than a smaller ship, but the hull thickness and integrity is not proportionate to overall size.
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Indeed, however the previous poster made no mention of this whatsoever. Granted the Defiant Class generally and likely does have, a stronger S.I.F. however, what's there to stop a tech upgrade to the existing S.I.F. Emitters on an older vessel to 'bring it up to snuff'?

    In RL, new military ships, aircraft tanks etc. are usually designed in such a way that later upgrades with new and better equipment are possible.
    This can take the form of empty spaces or slots that are bigger than the equipment that is at the time of introduction placed in them.
    As a consecuence of an upgrde these slots are then occupied by this new equipment.
    In some cases older units can be upgraded with this new tech and in some cases it's not possible.
    In case of the Miranda I'd say after 150 years of service the ship has reached the end of its upgrade capability.
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited July 2013
    To touch on misterde3 said, how many 50 year old War planes are in the skies? How many 50 year old tanks are on the battlefield?

    Even ships which are large and expensive to replace wouldn't be more than 20 years old, now I'm not denying a mothball fleet here. But at Tier 5 your a frickin Admiral your not going to be using the mothball fleet.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
    If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
    When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
  • displayname707displayname707 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    So how, exactly do you explain the In-game version of the Defiant Class, which is 'smaller' than the Miranda, Yet the 'fleet version' has 33k 'base' hull? Do tell?

    Defiant was designed to fight the borg threat... Iit has massive hull plating for fighting the borg. In Star Trek 8 you see it take massive damage from borg without blowing to pieces compared to the Miranda which got 1-2 shot by 1 jem dread ( And I think the borg cube hits way harder than a jem dread ). Miranda aint designed to fight the borg, hence its hull should not be even close to the defiant. Not even by a longshot.
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  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    edalgo wrote: »
    The Saber class basically replaced the Miranda class.

    The Saber class didn't replace anything. It fulfills the exact same role as the Defiant (fast attack gunship). They're comparable in size, speed, crew complement and armament.

    Just like the Defiant, it fills a role that up until that point Starfleet had decided didn't need to be filled.
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