I don't get why anyone would want a fleet version of the Miranda class, whenever I log onto the game I see zone message after zone message from people asking if anyone has a fleet they can join with a tier 5 shipyard. No one wants to join a fleet with anything below t5, now logically, if they every decided sure why not, it's safe to say that the Miranda would be a ship that's available for fleets who have a t1 shipyard. After all, it's a trainer ship, that's why feds get it in the tutorial. As far as the extremely tiny minority that seem to be unable to live without a Miranda why not just go dig your old one out of storage and shove some fleet gear on it, problem solved. Sure can't expect them to make a fleet version as some sort of super ship with a dozen weapon slots and more hull points than a whole fleet of ships so even if they did make one it won't be all that much better than the Miranda you have now.
ST Generations a Nebula and Miranda scoop up what's left of Enterprises crew.
In Nemesis there was a Federation fleet nearby when Scimitar jumped Enterprise. You and I ALL know there were at least a couple Miranda class ships in that battle-group.
The Miranda is still a viable opponent. It WAS considered a light cruiser, until advance in design relegated it to frigate duty.
That being said, there is NO REASON not to allow Miranda Fleet status.
CBS is wrong. In fact, scrap the whole regular/fleet ship idea. Resort the tiers so Mirandas can have a viable role in Fleet action play. Future of STO depends on decisions like it really.
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
the miranda been around since 1982 and is almost entirely the MAIN reason star trek exist still today. we owe it, even older designs are fleet ships. for cryptic to sh*t on the Miranda, centaur, and possibly the romulan d7 because they want to push their 2409 bit is just ludicrous.
so help me god if I don't start seeing some respect around here for the ships you'll die thinking of i'm going to rip the nacelles off the Miranda and start beating people!!!
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
I'm all for Fleet Light Cruiser Re(tro)fit and honestly I don't see why it couldn't happen.
First of, to all you "canon" defenders, KDF do already have a Fleet B'Rel (TOS/Movie era ship), while Romulans do have a Fleet T'Varo (Enterprise era ship).
Second, it's not just Miranda, but Centaur and Shi'kar as well. Those ships were seen numerous times during the Dominion War, with the Centaur being able to take on a Jem Hadar Bugship in one of the DS9 episodes.
Third, being a "Light Cruiser" the ship could be quite interesting to design. It could even rely on something like a Cmdr. Universal, to make it somewhat flexible for players.
Fourth, personally I think it would look nice with Type-6 material.
I was honestly disappointed with Geko's reaction to this idea during several interviews, saying basically "why would you want that?". Well, judging by the amount of similar threads people do want it and in contrast with the "T5 Connie" there's actually some kind of canon justification for this. And heck, players are already flying around in Enterprise era ships or giant dreadnoughts with Thalaron weapons, so most discussions like that are pointless.
I guess it's just a matter of "it won't make us enough money".
The reason why the Defiant and various other older Klingon and Romulan ship designs are Tier 5 is due to combat specialization. Unfortunately, Tier 5 status is solely based on combat potential. The Defiant and the other ships ships mentioned might be about the same size as the Miranda, but they have more room for combat systems compared to the Miranda. The Miranda is a regular Starfleet ship so it fills multiple roles instead of just combat. The Defiant would not do that well in a scientific exploration mission or helping a colony out while a Miranda would be perfect for it. The Miranda uses up a lot of room for luxury items and non-combat systems that it doesn't have as much room as the Defiant for combat systems. If we make the Miranda a Tier 5 ship, then all those systems would have to be pulled out and eliminate the role that the Miranda is used for.
Of course, it could be possible to have ships that are at multiple tiers so the upgraded Miranda could be at Tier 5 Science, and Tier 5 Colony, but Tier 2 Combat while the Defiant is at Tier 2 Science, Tier 2 Colony, and Tier 5 Combat. This would require adding additional non-combat missions where the type of ship determines a player's effectiveness in completing it. Non-combat missions are what STO should be about and not have 95% of the missions have combat in it.
Why not just make it a jack of all trades type of a ship? I honestly don't see it fully as any of the main classes. It's too old to be an escort/destroyer (dps-wise), it's too small to be a tank, and if anything it's closest to being a science-oriented type of cruiser.
i'd shoot for a 4/3 layout, in exchange for a 15 turn rate. gatta run with the defiants right?
A 4/3 layout with a high rurn rate like that is standard escort setup. If you wanna make the ship better, IMO we should try to work on other areas instead of trying to fit everything into an escort roll. Even if we're to look deeper into ship class functions themselves.
A 4/3 layout with a high rurn rate like that is standard escort setup. If you wanna make the ship better, IMO we should try to work on other areas instead of trying to fit everything into an escort roll. Even if we're to look deeper into ship class functions themselves.
your giving it very low hull though, which fits it in the escort role in the first place. about 27-28k base hull and you can lower the turn-rate to about 11 from 15. the way the consoles system is setup in STO you're just re-skinning an excelsior with your turn rate anyway.. with lower HP in exchange for commander universal..
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
If they did make a fleet version of the Miranda, it's stats would have to be in line with current fleet ships and standard ships, meaning it would be buyable from a tier 1 fleet shipyard, and it's hull would only be around 20,000, would have 4 fore, and 4 aft weapon slots, same number of crew, 200, lieutenant bridge officer slots, and around 3 of each console slots instead of 1 of each.
If you look at the base stats for the regular ships and the base stats for the fleet versions, theres not a really huge difference between them, just enough to make the fleet versions slightly better. As I said before, they are not going to do a fleet Miranda as a super ship with insanely high stats just because a few people want one, they'd just be slightly higher than the current in game Miranda which would make the ship pretty useless compared to the fleet ships we have now.
One big argument against it though is the player base, I have never, at any part of the day seen anyone, anywhere asking to join a fleet with a tier 1 shipyard. Anyone looking for a fleet always asks for one that's maxed out. and a lot of people who are in a lower tier fleet are always shopping around for a high one to join temporarily for the ships and equipment.
If they did make a fleet version of the Miranda, it's stats would have to be in line with current fleet ships and standard ships, meaning it would be buyable from a tier 1 fleet shipyard, and it's hull would only be around 20,000, would have 4 fore, and 4 aft weapon slots, same number of crew, 200, lieutenant bridge officer slots, and around 3 of each console slots instead of 1 of each.
If you look at the base stats for the regular ships and the base stats for the fleet versions, theres not a really huge difference between them, just enough to make the fleet versions slightly better. As I said before, they are not going to do a fleet Miranda as a super ship with insanely high stats just because a few people want one, they'd just be slightly higher than the current in game Miranda which would make the ship pretty useless compared to the fleet ships we have now.
One big argument against it though is the player base, I have never, at any part of the day seen anyone, anywhere asking to join a fleet with a tier 1 shipyard. Anyone looking for a fleet always asks for one that's maxed out. and a lot of people who are in a lower tier fleet are always shopping around for a high one to join temporarily for the ships and equipment.
Agreed. My opinion is that it would be balanced around the Fleet Aquarius Destroyer ship. Not balanced around the other Fleet ships. So the maximum it might have is 30,000 hull. The Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit has 39,600 Hull
Strange as it seems, the Miranda actually has more internal volume than the Constitution class.
It doesn't look like it, but the built up saucer actually adds more volume than the Connie's secondary hull. Someone built the models and checked the displacement.
So if the Constitution class is a Heavy Cruiser, the Miranda should be one as well.
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If you guys wanna split hairs look at WoK the USS reliant (Miranda) and USS Enterprise (Constitution) when khan first attacks the enterprise both ships are about the same size.
So imho its more of a cruiser then a light cruiser
I agree with the idea of a Fleet Miranda, but rather than the OP's cookie cutter yet-another-tac-ship clone, we should have something that gives us the Miranda we remember flying as a noob. One that wasn't Tac, Sci, or Engineering leaning at all.
Cdr Tac, Cdr Eng, Cdr Sci. 3 Boffs. Just as we remember them. 12 powers, like all other T5s. Weapons maybe 3/3 or 3/2. 3/3/3 base consoles with 3 variants that come in a Miranda Retrofit 3-pack for +1 console.
Good ship, bad ship? Who cares? It's your Miranda. It's not rendering anything else obsolete.
Of course, none of it will ever happen, because Cryptic apparently legally is unable to accept user input.
lol, 3 cmdrs on one ship...i'd like to see that chain of command happening:D
also from a balance perspective totally overpowered...it might add up to 12 boff powers, but the ratio between ensign and commander is also important.
however, i'd say that cbs could be "ok" with a gimmick like ship as the fleet aquarius is...not really competitive, but still not too weak. Same could be done for all the other T1 ships that are a "no go for T5"
on a related subject: aquarius (and it's KDF counterpart) had the potential of being a fleet small craft for a T5 shipyards...you know, an ultra cool small craft for all the "fabulous" small craft missions.
same goes for the risan corvette...could have been the ultra cool small craft, the first choice for a trip to risa (integrated risa transwarp destination)
Put that Lv 4 each area to Level 3 each area or Lv 3 Universal and it might work. The problem is you don't want to step on the toes of the D'Deridex retrofit and fleet version too much, which have a similar arrangement(Lv 3 Tac, Level 1 Tac, Level 4 Eng, Level 3 Sci, Level 1 Uni).
also from a balance perspective totally overpowered...it might add up to 12 boff powers, but the ratio between ensign and commander is also important.
Actually it is comparatively underpowered, sure you have 12 boff powers in the form of 3 commanders but the lack of skill spread leaves you with a problem, with only 4 skills in each profession the ship is severely handicapped
Level 3+ Tactical grants access to Attack Pattern Omega(Not required, but REALLY wanted), Tactical Team(Required) and an offence skill.
Level 3+ Engineering allows for Power to Weapons, Shields and Aux2Bat singular if you're into that.
Level 3+ Science allows Science Team/Transfer Shield Strength, Hazard Emitters(Required) and an offence skill.
Fairly standard, fairly nice. Again, it ends up similar to the D'Deridex, or even the Vo'quv Carriers which each have Level 3 Tac, Level 3 Eng and Level 4 Science. Normal has Lv2 Sci in addition, Mirror has Lv2 Eng in addition.
Point is you can make the layout work and be strong.
Actually it is comparatively underpowered, sure you have 12 boff powers in the form of 3 commanders but the lack of skill spread leaves you with a problem, with only 4 skills in each profession the ship is severely handicapped
i guess you'll overthink that statement after being trapped in a grav well3 and EWP3, empowered by omega 3, while BFAW3, syphon 3 are pownding on you.
commander boff abilitys are considerably stronger than their lower tier versions.
so many potential killer combos when you have 3 different commanders to combine.
Comments
In Nemesis there was a Federation fleet nearby when Scimitar jumped Enterprise. You and I ALL know there were at least a couple Miranda class ships in that battle-group.
The Miranda is still a viable opponent. It WAS considered a light cruiser, until advance in design relegated it to frigate duty.
That being said, there is NO REASON not to allow Miranda Fleet status.
CBS is wrong. In fact, scrap the whole regular/fleet ship idea. Resort the tiers so Mirandas can have a viable role in Fleet action play. Future of STO depends on decisions like it really.
cause sometimes its party time!
Thats almost as good idea as fleet miranda. /support
so help me god if I don't start seeing some respect around here for the ships you'll die thinking of i'm going to rip the nacelles off the Miranda and start beating people!!!
cause sometimes its party time!
First of, to all you "canon" defenders, KDF do already have a Fleet B'Rel (TOS/Movie era ship), while Romulans do have a Fleet T'Varo (Enterprise era ship).
Second, it's not just Miranda, but Centaur and Shi'kar as well. Those ships were seen numerous times during the Dominion War, with the Centaur being able to take on a Jem Hadar Bugship in one of the DS9 episodes.
Third, being a "Light Cruiser" the ship could be quite interesting to design. It could even rely on something like a Cmdr. Universal, to make it somewhat flexible for players.
Fourth, personally I think it would look nice with Type-6 material.
I was honestly disappointed with Geko's reaction to this idea during several interviews, saying basically "why would you want that?". Well, judging by the amount of similar threads people do want it and in contrast with the "T5 Connie" there's actually some kind of canon justification for this. And heck, players are already flying around in Enterprise era ships or giant dreadnoughts with Thalaron weapons, so most discussions like that are pointless.
I guess it's just a matter of "it won't make us enough money".
Of course, it could be possible to have ships that are at multiple tiers so the upgraded Miranda could be at Tier 5 Science, and Tier 5 Colony, but Tier 2 Combat while the Defiant is at Tier 2 Science, Tier 2 Colony, and Tier 5 Combat. This would require adding additional non-combat missions where the type of ship determines a player's effectiveness in completing it. Non-combat missions are what STO should be about and not have 95% of the missions have combat in it.
How about something in this vein:
Hull: 36,000
Shield Modifier: 1.1
Weapons: Fore 4 Aft 3
Crew: 200
Bridge Officers: Cmdr. Engi, Lt.Cmdr. Sci, Lt.Cmdr Tac, Ensign Engi, Ensign Sci
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engi, 3 Sci, 3 Tac
Turn Rate: 11
Impulse Modifier: 0.20
Inertia rating: 50
Bonus Power: +5 all power levels
Can load dual cannons
Thats like 90% oddyssey tactical cruiser you describe here.
Which would result in:-
Hull: 37250
Shield mod: 1.0
Weapons: 4/4
Crew: 150
Bridge officers: CMDR Tactical, Lt. CMDR Engineer, Ensign Engineer, Lt Science, Lt Universal
Device slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Tactical, 3 Science, 3 Engineering (3 of each in non-fleet)
Turn rate: 11
Impulse mod: 1.75
Inertia rating: Appropriate (Probably 50)
Bonus power: +10 Weapons, +5 Shields, +5 Engines
Can load dual cannons
As I said is my first post, I see it as a mirror Breen ship, or maybe as the fed version of the Vor'cha
Hull: 15000 (hey, it's still a weak ship)
Shield mod: 1.0
Weapons: 4 fore / 4 aft
Crew: 150
Bridge officers: Lt. CMDR Engineer, Lt Tactical, Lt Science, Lt Engineer, Commander Universal, Ensign Universal
Device slots: 4
Consoles: 3 Tactical, 3 Science, 4 Engineering
Turn rate: 9
Impulse mod: 1.75
Inertia rating: 50
Bonus power: +5 Weapons, +10 Shields, +5 Engines
Can load dual cannons
Can equip 2 deflector arrays
Can equip (uh whatever type hull the devs are planning for eng ships/cruisers)
I'd rather not make it into a Defiant 2.0, ijs. With this setup though, despite its squishiness, it can be very versatile.
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Dear me, my T2 Nova has more HP than that, plus the console layout you suggested is T4 or less.
People like the KDF battlecruisers, lets give people the chance for a similar experience fed-side.
*edits*
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i'd shoot for a 4/3 layout, in exchange for a 15 turn rate. gatta run with the defiants right?
cause sometimes its party time!
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your giving it very low hull though, which fits it in the escort role in the first place. about 27-28k base hull and you can lower the turn-rate to about 11 from 15. the way the consoles system is setup in STO you're just re-skinning an excelsior with your turn rate anyway.. with lower HP in exchange for commander universal..
cause sometimes its party time!
cause sometimes its party time!
If you look at the base stats for the regular ships and the base stats for the fleet versions, theres not a really huge difference between them, just enough to make the fleet versions slightly better. As I said before, they are not going to do a fleet Miranda as a super ship with insanely high stats just because a few people want one, they'd just be slightly higher than the current in game Miranda which would make the ship pretty useless compared to the fleet ships we have now.
One big argument against it though is the player base, I have never, at any part of the day seen anyone, anywhere asking to join a fleet with a tier 1 shipyard. Anyone looking for a fleet always asks for one that's maxed out. and a lot of people who are in a lower tier fleet are always shopping around for a high one to join temporarily for the ships and equipment.
Agreed. My opinion is that it would be balanced around the Fleet Aquarius Destroyer ship. Not balanced around the other Fleet ships. So the maximum it might have is 30,000 hull. The Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit has 39,600 Hull
It doesn't look like it, but the built up saucer actually adds more volume than the Connie's secondary hull. Someone built the models and checked the displacement.
So if the Constitution class is a Heavy Cruiser, the Miranda should be one as well.
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Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
So imho its more of a cruiser then a light cruiser
Cdr Tac, Cdr Eng, Cdr Sci. 3 Boffs. Just as we remember them. 12 powers, like all other T5s. Weapons maybe 3/3 or 3/2. 3/3/3 base consoles with 3 variants that come in a Miranda Retrofit 3-pack for +1 console.
Good ship, bad ship? Who cares? It's your Miranda. It's not rendering anything else obsolete.
Of course, none of it will ever happen, because Cryptic apparently legally is unable to accept user input.
also from a balance perspective totally overpowered...it might add up to 12 boff powers, but the ratio between ensign and commander is also important.
however, i'd say that cbs could be "ok" with a gimmick like ship as the fleet aquarius is...not really competitive, but still not too weak. Same could be done for all the other T1 ships that are a "no go for T5"
on a related subject: aquarius (and it's KDF counterpart) had the potential of being a fleet small craft for a T5 shipyards...you know, an ultra cool small craft for all the "fabulous" small craft missions.
same goes for the risan corvette...could have been the ultra cool small craft, the first choice for a trip to risa (integrated risa transwarp destination)
Actually it is comparatively underpowered, sure you have 12 boff powers in the form of 3 commanders but the lack of skill spread leaves you with a problem, with only 4 skills in each profession the ship is severely handicapped
Level 3+ Engineering allows for Power to Weapons, Shields and Aux2Bat singular if you're into that.
Level 3+ Science allows Science Team/Transfer Shield Strength, Hazard Emitters(Required) and an offence skill.
Fairly standard, fairly nice. Again, it ends up similar to the D'Deridex, or even the Vo'quv Carriers which each have Level 3 Tac, Level 3 Eng and Level 4 Science. Normal has Lv2 Sci in addition, Mirror has Lv2 Eng in addition.
Point is you can make the layout work and be strong.
i guess you'll overthink that statement after being trapped in a grav well3 and EWP3, empowered by omega 3, while BFAW3, syphon 3 are pownding on you.
commander boff abilitys are considerably stronger than their lower tier versions.
so many potential killer combos when you have 3 different commanders to combine.