there is a difference between "still used" and "still produced". You could have made a reasonable point by stating the 80 year old VW beetle, that was still produced in mexico until 2004. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle_in_Mexico
what you posted are either custom made or collector stuff
The point is it still in use.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
what point?
people still use 200 year old furniture to sit on, doesn't mean that it is more comfortable than the new stuff.
they serve the purpose, but they are harder to maintain and if they are broke they are more expensive to repair than to actually buy something new that fits the same purpose.
it is not efficent to use antique stuff, just nostalgic.
We if CBS did say no to a Constitution class T5 ship thats fine
A T5 Enterprise class would be just as good and was a differnt class of ship but has the look most fans desire
To all of the people talking about old ships
Its not the Hull...Its the stuff inside the hull that makes it a great ship not the hull
Any of the old hull could be produced and be just as effective as any new ship hull in most reguards
besides most new designs look terible copmared to the older ships thats just a fact
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
what point?
people still use 200 year old furniture to sit on, doesn't mean that it is more comfortable than the new stuff.
they serve the purpose, but they are harder to maintain and if they are broke they are more expensive to repair than to actually buy something new that fits the same purpose.
it is not efficent to use antique stuff, just nostalgic.
To build on what you said.
I doubt furniture has the hull stress of a space ship. I know the old F111's used by the Australians are technologically fine, we updated them constantly. Shame the air frames are stuffed. We need new air frames and since we can't get them we replaced them with new planes.
Cars don't under go anywhere near the stress of a plane let alone a space ship that flies at speed much greater than light. I pull a car out of careful storage and it's in near mint condition 50, 80 or even 100 years later. Same for planes, there are still Spitfires out there that are in near perfect condition. But these aren't the planes the military uses, they don't make them just to store them I don't think Starfleet did a run of 100 Connies just for storage purposes.
Do you think a Starship was mothballed in near mint condition so 200 or so years later an Admiral can take it up against the biggest threats to the Alpha quadrant?
All this arguing is a moot point. CBS said no to the Connie at T5, until that changes we're never getting it. The Miranda? I don't know what they said if anything but I doubt we'll see her. The Nebula class was meant to replace the Miranda, in theory that's your Fleet level T5 Miranda. I know it's not the ship you wanted but it's there.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Read this then it is his letter we got on Star Trek Gamers.
You can read that by googling Star Trek Gamers Looking to the future - ViaCom Splits.
I have to assume your issues on the forum come from you not having a great grasp of the English language. First, that's not a letter from Mr. Redstone. That's just some article written about the split. Mr. Redstone would not write a letter and say: "Redstone himself has..." in the letter. He would have said: "I have, not Redstone himself." Get it. You're reading some incorrect and out of date news article as if it has any relevance.
No one denies that Viacom split into Viacom and CBS during the 2005/2006 season - with Viacom owning Paramount in the process. A company splitting has nothing to do with the ownership. National Amusements owned controlling interest in Viacom. They now own controlling interest in CBS and Viacom, the 2 companies Viacom split into. And none of that has anything to do with the fact that Sumner Redstone never retired, he still owns National Amusements, National Amusements still owns controlling interest of Viacom and CBS, and Sumner is still Chairman of the Board of Viacom and CBS.
Sumner is still Chairman of the Board of both companies. The Chairman and the Board are the people who hire the CEO. IE, his position is higher then Les Moonves'. He's Les' boss. Sumner's daughter, Shari, is Vice-Chairman of CBS and Viacom. Her position is also higher then Les Moonves. And Les has been a president at CBS since 1995.
So, to sum up: Sumner Redstone owned Viacom through his company National Amusements. He now owns Viacom and CBS. He never retired from being the boss of National Amusements even though he's 90. He holds the position of Chairman of the Board of both Viacom and CBS during the split, and he still holds those positions today.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I have to assume your issues on the forum come from you not having a great grasp of the English language. First, that's not a letter from Mr. Redstone. That's just some article written about the split. Mr. Redstone would not write a letter and say: "Redstone himself has..." in the letter. He would have said: "I have, not Redstone himself." Get it. You're reading some incorrect and out of date news article as if it has any relevance.
No one denies that Viacom split into Viacom and CBS during the 2005/2006 season - with Viacom owning Paramount in the process. A company splitting has nothing to do with the ownership. National Amusements owned controlling interest in Viacom. They now own controlling interest in CBS and Viacom, the 2 companies Viacom split into. And none of that has anything to do with the fact that Sumner Redstone never retired, he still owns National Amusements, National Amusements still owns controlling interest of Viacom and CBS, and Sumner is still Chairman of the Board of Viacom and CBS.
Sumner is still Chairman of the Board of both companies. The Chairman and the Board are the people who hire the CEO. IE, his position is higher then Les Moonves'. He's Les' boss. Sumner's daughter, Shari, is Vice-Chairman of CBS and Viacom. Her position is also higher then Les Moonves. And Les has been a president at CBS since 1995.
So, to sum up: Sumner Redstone owned Viacom through his company National Amusements. He now owns Viacom and CBS. He never retired from being the boss of National Amusements even though he's 90. He holds the position of Chairman of the Board of both Viacom and CBS during the split, and he still holds those positions today.
That is indeed a letter we got as the head Admin wrote an hand written letter.you know nothing about what has happened in the last 5 years and the reason my english is bad is becasue I want to YELL it in you FACE.You have No grasp of the situation that faced this game.YES I ma YELLING
It is you who is wrong here MR Know It ALL.You don;'t know a thing of STAR TREKGAMING.You really are STARTING PO MEOFF as you know nothing don't pretent you DO.
THAT IS AN AUTHENTIC LETTER FROM MR RESTONE SENT TO MY BOSS!!!!!!!!!!.TGeat it thru you think head.
STOP PO me OFF with you MISInformation btw MY site is back iup.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
That is indeed a letter we got as the head Admin wrote an hand written letter.you know nothing about what has happened in the last 5 years and the reason my english is bad is becasue I want to YELL it in you FACE.You are the one lisleading other here not ME.
It is you who is wrong here MR Know It ALL.You don;'t know a thing of STAR TREKGAMING.You really are STARTING PO MEOFF as you know nothing don't pretent you DO.
THAT IS AN AUTHENTIC LETTER FROM MT RESTONE SENT TO MY BOSS!!!!!!!!!!.TGeat it thru you think head.
Mr. Redstone never sent that letter, as he would never write it the way it was written. You're a liar, or your Head Admin lied to you. It's as simple as that.
There are dozens of websites you can go to that prove Sumner never retired. As I've said 4 times now, you can go directly to CBS and Viacom and see that he is listed as the Chairman of the Board of those two corporations. You can go to those websites and see that Sumner is still the head of National Amusements. You can see that National Amusements is still the owner, via voting rights, of CBS and Viacom. All of that is PUBLIC RECORD that anyone can find in 2 minutes on the internet.
Sumner still owns CBS and Viacom. Les is the CEO of CBS, but he works for Sumner, the Chairman of the Board of CBS. This is all public record and has nothing to do with a 7 year old letter your Admin says he got.
So be as POed as you want to be. That want stop you from being completely wrong.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Mr. Redstone never sent that letter, as he would never write it the way it was written. You're a liar, or your Head Admin lied to you. It's as simple as that.
I don't think he is lying, I believe he thinks he is stating the truth. Doesn't stop him being wrong but.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
That is indeed a letter we got as the head Admin wrote an hand written letter.you know nothing about what has happened in the last 5 years and the reason my english is bad is becasue I want to YELL it in you FACE.You have No grasp of the situation that faced this game.YES I ma YELLING
It is you who is wrong here MR Know It ALL.You don;'t know a thing of STAR TREKGAMING.You really are STARTING PO MEOFF as you know nothing don't pretent you DO.
THAT IS AN AUTHENTIC LETTER FROM MR RESTONE SENT TO MY BOSS!!!!!!!!!!.TGeat it thru you think head.
STOP PO me OFF with you MISInformation btw MY site is back iup.
now c'mon...that is a statement written by Victor1st the sideadmin, he doesn't even mention anything about a "handwritten letter" from Mr. Redstone.
That is taken completely out of thin air that anybody on that forum received a letter from anyone.
also it is 8 year old info...things have changed.
I don't think he is lying, I believe he thinks he is stating the truth. Doesn't stop him being wrong but.
most likely the case with age03's overall forum history. he may be french canadian, so english may not be his first language. But i allways thought in french canada everybody is fluent in both french and english...seems i was wrong.
wow, this thread keeps poping up like a zombie that just won't stay dead. Basically it all comes down to this, are there enough people who can't sleep at night, who can't live on this earth unless they have a tier 5 Miranda or Constitution class ship on STO to make it cost effective and profitable to tell the developers "sure we have glitchs and bugs and new content to add but lets put that on the backburner so we can make these 5 people happy" The answer, no, only a very tiny number of people who play STO want these ships so no, it will never happen because theres simply not enough money to be made there.
Yes I know, incoming flame messages and rants about how they have to have them for role playing. My response to that is wtf, dude, your in a mmo game, why not try playing the game instead of dorking it up around ESD or Wolf 359 pretending to be kirk and stuff. And if you still can't live without a Miranda and Constitution heres a solution, take the ones you got, equip fleet weapons, shield, engine, warp core, and deflector and go knock yourself out because a T5 versions not going to be all that much of an improvement anyway, not ment to be, the Miranda is ment to be a "just downloaded STO" opening tutorial ship for the Feds, that's why you get a better ship at level 10. And the Constitution is basically ment to be a cash shop version. no more, no less.
wow, this thread keeps poping up like a zombie that just won't stay dead. Basically it all comes down to this, are there enough people who can't sleep at night, who can't live on this earth unless they have a tier 5 Miranda or Constitution class ship on STO to make it cost effective and profitable to tell the developers "sure we have glitchs and bugs and new content to add but lets put that on the backburner so we can make these 5 people happy" The answer, no, only a very tiny number of people who play STO want these ships so no, it will never happen because theres simply not enough money to be made there.
Dude, return your business degree to the college you got it from. There's a reason why the Connie was put into a box set for Launch and eventually added to the C-Store. It's the most iconic ship in Star Trek and it's in huge demand. Far more people would spend hundreds of dollars on a T5 Connie Lockbox compared to an Elachi Lockbox.
Yes I know, incoming flame messages and rants about how they have to have them for role playing. My response to that is wtf, dude, your in a mmo game, why not try playing the game instead of dorking it up around ESD or Wolf 359 pretending to be kirk and stuff. And if you still can't live without a Miranda and Constitution heres a solution, take the ones you got, equip fleet weapons, shield, engine, warp core, and deflector and go knock yourself out because a T5 versions not going to be all that much of an improvement anyway, not ment to be, the Miranda is ment to be a "just downloaded STO" opening tutorial ship for the Feds, that's why you get a better ship at level 10. And the Constitution is basically ment to be a cash shop version. no more, no less.
The reason people play a Star Trek game is because they like Star Trek. If the IP didn't matter I could be off playing Eve Online.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The reason people play a Star Trek game is because they like Star Trek. If the IP didn't matter I could be off playing Eve Online.
I seriously doubt that considering what Eve Online is like. It might be true about other space MMOs though. Gameplay matters just as much as IP. IP brings in the players, but gamplay and content keeps them there. If Star Trek Online was like Eve Online, then a lot of players would try Star Trek Online, but move on to other things due to Eve Online effectively being a second job. You might be one of the few people that finds Eve Online fun, but not most Star Trek Online players.
I seriously doubt that considering what Eve Online is like. It might be true about other space MMOs though. Gameplay matters just as much as IP. IP brings in the players, but gamplay and content keeps them there. If Star Trek Online was like Eve Online, then a lot of players would try Star Trek Online, but move on to other things due to Eve Online effectively being a second job. You might be one of the few people that finds Eve Online fun, but not most Star Trek Online players.
I believe you're over-thinking my answer a bit. My point was that if IP didn't matter then people would be just as happy playing a generic SciFi game. Eve was my example of a non-licensed generic SciFi game. Plus, there are tons of posts on the forum regularly about people who only play STO because it's a Trek game. The have no love for the engine or game-play system. They're simply here because it's the only Trek game out there to play.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Dude, return your business degree to the college you got it from. There's a reason why the Connie was put into a box set for Launch and eventually added to the C-Store. It's the most iconic ship in Star Trek and it's in huge demand. Far more people would spend hundreds of dollars on a T5 Connie Lockbox compared to an Elachi Lockbox.
The reason people play a Star Trek game is because they like Star Trek. If the IP didn't matter I could be off playing Eve Online.
The 5 or 6 people that keep bringing this tired old argument up does not constitute the majority. And if the demand was so huge why is it you hardly see anyone in game flying the thing. I always see people in every other ship, almost never that one. Aaaand finally, this thread isn't about that anyway, this is a thread started by someone as a anti Miranda/connie argument thread, you people already have 3 or 4 hundred pro Miranda/connie threads that no one ever response to. Stop trying to hijack other people's threads in an attempt to force your stuff down everyone else's throats
The 5 or 6 people that keep bringing this tired old argument up does not constitute the majority. And if the demand was so huge why is it you hardly see anyone in game flying the thing. I always see people in every other ship, almost never that one.
Since everyone playing Fed starts in, at the very least, a Miranda it's clearly used. And you do realize the Connie and Miranda are T1 ships, right? They're obsolete in the game within the first hour, or so, of playing. Most people aren't going to fly a T1 ship at Captain rank, thus the ship isn't used in game long enough to notice it if you don't spend time in the Lt level mission areas. And it's quite stupid to say they're not used, as everyone currently in the game used them at one point in time.
And really, what do you care whats ships people use? No one's forcing you to use a ship you don't want to use - be that Miranda, Connie, D'kora, Jem'hadar, or whatever.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
That's why whole point as to why a T5 version is pointless, they are newbie ships used as a newbie training ship. Take the Miranda, base hull 10,000, all they would do to a T5 version would be to bump that to around 15 or 20k as well as the other usual upgrades like the extra weapon slots. They are not going to make them as super ships with 10,000,000,000,000,000 hull or something just to make a few people happy. So in the end all your going to get is a ever so slightly beefed up version of those. Whats next? you gonna ask for a T5 Miranda or Connie as a dreadnaught carrier? At any rate theres no point in the argument because as I already said this is a con argument thread about the idea that you and a few others are just trying to hijack to force your ideas on everyone making you look like just another forum troll
That's why whole point as to why a T5 version is pointless, they are newbie ships used as a newbie training ship. Take the Miranda, base hull 10,000, all they would do to a T5 version would be to bump that to around 15 or 20k as well as the other usual upgrades like the extra weapon slots. They are not going to make them as super ships with 10,000,000,000,000,000 hull or something just to make a few people happy. So in the end all your going to get is a ever so slightly beefed up version of those. Whats next? you gonna ask for a T5 Miranda or Connie as a dreadnaught carrier? At any rate theres no point in the argument because as I already said this is a con argument thread about the idea that you and a few others are just trying to hijack to force your ideas on everyone making you look like just another forum troll
First, no one asked for a "super-ship." They simply asked for a T5 version comparable to other T5 ships already in the game. Thus no one wants "10,000,000,000,000,000 hull." And this game has already done what is being asked for with ships like the B'rel.
Second, this thread is 3 months and nearly 300 posts old. It's purpose, as most thread's purpose, has mutated in that time. Deal with it.
And finally, calling someone a troll simply because they disagree with you doesn't do much to show you have any character.
STO is here to make many thousands of people happy, even when what they want differs from what you want. That's the point of compromise.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
First, no one asked for a "super-ship." They simply asked for a T5 version comparable to other T5 ships already in the game. Thus no one wants "10,000,000,000,000,000 hull." And this game has already done what is being asked for with ships like the B'rel.
Second, this thread is 3 months and nearly 300 posts old. It's purpose, as most thread's purpose, has mutated in that time. Deal with it.
And finally, calling someone a troll simply because they disagree with you doesn't do much to show you have any character.
and hijacking a thread in order to force your opinions and beliefs does?
This is the --->"ANTI",<---- Miranda/ Connie thread. That was the intent of it when the person started it, it was just derailed to force an opinion, that shows no class and I'm sure anyone would agree with me, as far as this being an old thread, all the T5 Miranda/Connie threads are old, it's an old subject that's ran it's course and most people are tired of seeing it, so what do you hope to accomplish by digging up that dead horse again? Face it, there will never, ever, by a T5 Miranda or Connie, if they had any plans what so ever of doing it, we'd be seeing them by now, the fact is PWE has absolutely no interest in making them.
Face it, there will never, ever, by a T5 Miranda or Connie, if they had any plans what so ever of doing it, we'd be seeing them by now, the fact is PWE has absolutely no interest in making them.
Actually, if you've been following these threads as long as you think you have been then you'd know that Cryptic has an interest in making them. CBS doesn't. Both DStahl and Geko have talked about this in the past - Geko even going so far as to suggest they make the T5 Connie a Lockbox ship to try and get around the CBS restriction.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Actually, if you've been following these threads as long as you think you have been then you'd know that Cryptic has an interest in making them. CBS doesn't. Both DStahl and Geko have talked about this in the past - Geko even going so far as to suggest they make the T5 Connie a Lockbox ship to try and get around the CBS restriction.
It could be as simple as the Devs are tired about players asking for Tier 5 Connies so they are trying to get them off their backs. If the devs wanted to add Tier 5 Connies, Mirandas, and NXs and had authorization, then it would just require them to figure out what stats they should have. I wouldn't be surprised if it just took an afternoon to add them. So the only issue with these ships is CBS authorization and should these ships be comparable to Tier 5 ships. It might be easier to try for T3 Connies. A lot of the T5 Connie naysayers would lose their stance when it comes to T3 Connies.
Personally, that seems like modifying a Model T Ford and trying to race it against a Formula 1 Race Car. The modified Model T Ford would do far better than a working unmodified Model T Ford, but it won't perform anywhere close to the Formula 1 Race Car's performance.
Personally, that seems like modifying a Model T Ford and trying to race it against a Formula 1 Race Car. The modified Model T Ford would do far better than a working unmodified Model T Ford, but it won't perform anywhere close to the Formula 1 Race Car's performance.
The t'varo, b'rel, and several t2 ships from all 3 factions that also have t5 versions disagree with your assessment.
wow, this thread keeps poping up like a zombie that just won't stay dead. Basically it all comes down to this, are there enough people who can't sleep at night, who can't live on this earth unless they have a tier 5 Miranda or Constitution class ship on STO to make it cost effective and profitable to tell the developers "sure we have glitchs and bugs and new content to add but lets put that on the backburner so we can make these 5 people happy" The answer, no, only a very tiny number of people who play STO want these ships so no, it will never happen because theres simply not enough money to be made there.
Do keep in mind that making a T5 Connie could be as easy as copy/pasting any existing ship, say the T5 Recon Science Vessel, then editing two things - Ensign BOff station to "universal", ship graphic to "Constitution". Any half-decent intern could do this, for free. They'd probably spend more time updating the C-store to hold the ship than they spent "building" it... :P
Yes I know, incoming flame messages and rants about how they have to have them for role playing. My response to that is wtf, dude, your in a mmo game, why not try playing the game instead of dorking it up around ESD or Wolf 359 pretending to be kirk and stuff.
And here I thought STO was actually an MMORPG. Even if a lot of people "play" the RPG portion as plain extensions of them-self or the "strong/sexy silent type"... At the same time, while some people (the RP-ers), as you say, "dork it up" in social zones (ESD, Drozana, etc.), I don't see hundreds (or even dozens) of Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, etc. "clones", even though many people's characters attempt to be "contemporaries" of these captains...
And if you still can't live without a Miranda and Constitution heres a solution, take the ones you got, equip fleet weapons, shield, engine, warp core, and deflector and go knock yourself out because a T5 versions not going to be all that much of an improvement anyway, not ment to be, the Miranda is ment to be a "just downloaded STO" opening tutorial ship for the Feds, that's why you get a better ship at level 10. And the Constitution is basically ment to be a cash shop version. no more, no less.
Nice built in contradiction. T1 -> T5 is "not much of an improvement" then saying that we are given an improved ship at L10 because T1's are supposed to be nothing more than "tutorial ships"... By that logic, Cryptic has no need to design T5.5 Lockbox or Fleet ships because the marginal improvement given by one is "negligible"... Yet I saw a thread somewhere that a Recluse needs to put out a "parse-able 25k DPS" to be considered an "elite" pilot while Luna pilots are "elite" at 10k or 15k...
Hence our pleas for T5 Connies / Mirandas / NXs. Because there is a demonstrable improvement, and we do need that level of improvement to "remain remotely competitive" in endgame - Elite Fleet loadouts on the T1 ships just don't cut it...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The t'varo, b'rel, and several t2 ships from all 3 factions that also have t5 versions disagree with your assessment.
Romulans, Klingons, and Vulcans have been making ships for far longer than humans have so their designs have matured to the point where future changes don't require a completely new design for a specific ship type. As far as Tier 2 ships go, Tier 2 Escorts and Tier 2 Science Vessels have Tier 5 versions and they were first created in the 24th Century. Tier 2 Cruisers were first created in the 23rd Century and there is no Tier 5 version of them. The Model T Ford and the 22nd and 23rd Century Starfleet ships are immature designs so they don't disagree with my assessment. If there was a Fleet Cruiser Retrofit, then it might disagree with my assessment.
There is also the issue of do these ships compare to regular Tier 5 versions. If a Retrofit is far better than a regular Tier 5 ship, then it might disagree with my assessment. So is a Escort Retrofit better than a Patrol Escort?
Romulans, Klingons, and Vulcans have been making ships for far longer than humans have so their designs have matured to the point where future changes don't require a completely new design for a specific ship type. As far as Tier 2 ships go, Tier 2 Escorts and Tier 2 Science Vessels have Tier 5 versions and they were first created in the 24th Century. Tier 2 Cruisers were first created in the 23rd Century and there is no Tier 5 version of them. The Model T Ford and the 22nd and 23rd Century Starfleet ships are immature designs so they don't disagree with my assessment. If there was a Fleet Cruiser Retrofit, then it might disagree with my assessment.
There is also the issue of do these ships compare to regular Tier 5 versions. If a Retrofit is far better than a regular Tier 5 ship, then it might disagree with my assessment. So is a Escort Retrofit better than a Patrol Escort?
You are trying to canonally rationalize something that was nothing more then a developer deciding yes or no when they created the ship. There is no canon rationalization to be made. To prove how there is nothing to rationalize I will simply say that the shikahr class is a 25th century ship design in the game, is larger then the nova class and yet is only t1 while the nova is fleet t5. Also, the nx, constitiution, and oberth are replica ships, designed and built in the 25th century. Technology level clearly has nothing to do with the decision. We also know that by the TOS era that all Federation species worked together to build ships in the various shipyards around the federation. There was no nonsense about how vulans are more experienced and so their ships were built better and lasted longer because vulcans were building starfleet ships by the TOS era.
Do keep in mind that making a T5 Connie could be as easy as copy/pasting any existing ship, say the T5 Recon Science Vessel, then editing two things - Ensign BOff station to "universal", ship graphic to "Constitution". Any half-decent intern could do this, for free. They'd probably spend more time updating the C-store to hold the ship than they spent "building" it... :P
Nice built in contradiction. T1 -> T5 is "not much of an improvement" then saying that we are given an improved ship at L10 because T1's are supposed to be nothing more than "tutorial ships"... By that logic, Cryptic has no need to design T5.5 Lockbox or Fleet ships because the marginal improvement given by one is "negligible"... Yet I saw a thread somewhere that a Recluse needs to put out a "parse-able 25k DPS" to be considered an "elite" pilot while Luna pilots are "elite" at 10k or 15k...
Hence our pleas for T5 Connies / Mirandas / NXs. Because there is a demonstrable improvement, and we do need that level of improvement to "remain remotely competitive" in endgame - Elite Fleet loadouts on the T1 ships just don't cut it...
What contradiction? Check the base stats, there is only minor stats differences between a standard ship and it's tier 5 fleet counterpart, now, taking that into consideration, logic dictates that the same would apply to the Miranda and Constitution, so therefore, as T5 ships go those would be at the bottom of the barrel stats wise compared to any other T5 ship and no they are not going to give those ships any sort of special treatment by giving them a stats bump that they don't offer the other ships simply because a few people want it. I want a cloaking device for my Odyssey, will I get one? doubtful, we all want something but we're not going to get it, deal with it, move on, and would a mod close this thread already, it's so old it's grandkids are dead.
What contradiction? Check the base stats, there is only minor stats differences between a standard ship and it's tier 5 fleet counterpart, now, taking that into consideration, logic dictates that the same would apply to the Miranda and Constitution, so therefore, as T5 ships go those would be at the bottom of the barrel stats wise compared to any other T5 ship and no they are not going to give those ships any sort of special treatment by giving them a stats bump that they don't offer the other ships simply because a few people want it. I want a cloaking device for my Odyssey, will I get one? doubtful, we all want something but we're not going to get it, deal with it, move on, and would a mod close this thread already, it's so old it's grandkids are dead.
Are you daft? A t1 ship has 3 weapons slots and 3 boff slots. A t5 ship has 8 weapons and 12 boff slots. There is also the difference between 3 console slots and 10 console slots. There is a gigantic difference in performance between a t1 and a t5. It is not just the extra hull that makes a difference.
You are trying to canonally rationalize something that was nothing more then a developer deciding yes or no when they created the ship. There is no canon rationalization to be made. To prove how there is nothing to rationalize I will simply say that the shikahr class is a 25th century ship design in the game, is larger then the nova class and yet is only t1 while the nova is fleet t5. Also, the nx, constitiution, and oberth are replica ships, designed and built in the 25th century. Technology level clearly has nothing to do with the decision. We also know that by the TOS era that all Federation species worked together to build ships in the various shipyards around the federation. There was no nonsense about how vulans are more experienced and so their ships were built better and lasted longer because vulcans were building starfleet ships by the TOS era.
Starfleet has been human-centric for over a century. Look at TOS, TNG, and Voyager. The humans clearly outnumber the aliens. There is also an issue with multiple races working together to design a ship. Any design created from that collaboration would be immature from the start. We lost a Mars probe because of that type of collaboration due to different groups of people working together and not compensating appropriately. That is just a project done by various nations on Earth. If humans and aliens tried to create a ship together, then there would be tons of problems and it would require doing quite a few ships until the designs are at a mature enough level. Vulcan ships are not the same as Starfleet ships. So Vulcan ship designs have matured over the centuries requiring little change while Starfleet ships would be immature and take centuries to achieve a mature design.
Canonically rationalizing is part of what a Star Trek fan is about and saying there is no reason for canonically rationalizing is denying that part of being a Star Trek fan.
Where is your evidence of the Shikahr class being a 25th Century ship design? The Centaur is obviously a 24th Century ship design and the Miranda is obviously a 23rd Century ship design, but the Shikahr is a purely Cryptic creation so there is no evidence when it was built or what it is capable of.
What contradiction? Check the base stats, there is only minor stats differences between a standard ship and it's tier 5 fleet counterpart,
Anything after this is irrelevant, it is based on an untrue premise.
There is a LARGE difference between a "standard" and T5 Fleet ship. Heck, there are huge differences between T5 Fleet ships of the same ship category.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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The point is it still in use.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
what point?
people still use 200 year old furniture to sit on, doesn't mean that it is more comfortable than the new stuff.
they serve the purpose, but they are harder to maintain and if they are broke they are more expensive to repair than to actually buy something new that fits the same purpose.
it is not efficent to use antique stuff, just nostalgic.
A T5 Enterprise class would be just as good and was a differnt class of ship but has the look most fans desire
To all of the people talking about old ships
Its not the Hull...Its the stuff inside the hull that makes it a great ship not the hull
Any of the old hull could be produced and be just as effective as any new ship hull in most reguards
besides most new designs look terible copmared to the older ships thats just a fact
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
To build on what you said.
I doubt furniture has the hull stress of a space ship. I know the old F111's used by the Australians are technologically fine, we updated them constantly. Shame the air frames are stuffed. We need new air frames and since we can't get them we replaced them with new planes.
Cars don't under go anywhere near the stress of a plane let alone a space ship that flies at speed much greater than light. I pull a car out of careful storage and it's in near mint condition 50, 80 or even 100 years later. Same for planes, there are still Spitfires out there that are in near perfect condition. But these aren't the planes the military uses, they don't make them just to store them I don't think Starfleet did a run of 100 Connies just for storage purposes.
Do you think a Starship was mothballed in near mint condition so 200 or so years later an Admiral can take it up against the biggest threats to the Alpha quadrant?
All this arguing is a moot point. CBS said no to the Connie at T5, until that changes we're never getting it. The Miranda? I don't know what they said if anything but I doubt we'll see her. The Nebula class was meant to replace the Miranda, in theory that's your Fleet level T5 Miranda. I know it's not the ship you wanted but it's there.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
No one denies that Viacom split into Viacom and CBS during the 2005/2006 season - with Viacom owning Paramount in the process. A company splitting has nothing to do with the ownership. National Amusements owned controlling interest in Viacom. They now own controlling interest in CBS and Viacom, the 2 companies Viacom split into. And none of that has anything to do with the fact that Sumner Redstone never retired, he still owns National Amusements, National Amusements still owns controlling interest of Viacom and CBS, and Sumner is still Chairman of the Board of Viacom and CBS.
Sumner is still Chairman of the Board of both companies. The Chairman and the Board are the people who hire the CEO. IE, his position is higher then Les Moonves'. He's Les' boss. Sumner's daughter, Shari, is Vice-Chairman of CBS and Viacom. Her position is also higher then Les Moonves. And Les has been a president at CBS since 1995.
So, to sum up: Sumner Redstone owned Viacom through his company National Amusements. He now owns Viacom and CBS. He never retired from being the boss of National Amusements even though he's 90. He holds the position of Chairman of the Board of both Viacom and CBS during the split, and he still holds those positions today.
It is you who is wrong here MR Know It ALL.You don;'t know a thing of STAR TREKGAMING.You really are STARTING PO MEOFF as you know nothing don't pretent you DO.
THAT IS AN AUTHENTIC LETTER FROM MR RESTONE SENT TO MY BOSS!!!!!!!!!!.TGeat it thru you think head.
STOP PO me OFF with you MISInformation btw MY site is back iup.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
There are dozens of websites you can go to that prove Sumner never retired. As I've said 4 times now, you can go directly to CBS and Viacom and see that he is listed as the Chairman of the Board of those two corporations. You can go to those websites and see that Sumner is still the head of National Amusements. You can see that National Amusements is still the owner, via voting rights, of CBS and Viacom. All of that is PUBLIC RECORD that anyone can find in 2 minutes on the internet.
Sumner still owns CBS and Viacom. Les is the CEO of CBS, but he works for Sumner, the Chairman of the Board of CBS. This is all public record and has nothing to do with a 7 year old letter your Admin says he got.
So be as POed as you want to be. That want stop you from being completely wrong.
I don't think he is lying, I believe he thinks he is stating the truth. Doesn't stop him being wrong but.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
now c'mon...that is a statement written by Victor1st the sideadmin, he doesn't even mention anything about a "handwritten letter" from Mr. Redstone.
That is taken completely out of thin air that anybody on that forum received a letter from anyone.
also it is 8 year old info...things have changed.
most likely the case with age03's overall forum history. he may be french canadian, so english may not be his first language. But i allways thought in french canada everybody is fluent in both french and english...seems i was wrong.
Yes I know, incoming flame messages and rants about how they have to have them for role playing. My response to that is wtf, dude, your in a mmo game, why not try playing the game instead of dorking it up around ESD or Wolf 359 pretending to be kirk and stuff. And if you still can't live without a Miranda and Constitution heres a solution, take the ones you got, equip fleet weapons, shield, engine, warp core, and deflector and go knock yourself out because a T5 versions not going to be all that much of an improvement anyway, not ment to be, the Miranda is ment to be a "just downloaded STO" opening tutorial ship for the Feds, that's why you get a better ship at level 10. And the Constitution is basically ment to be a cash shop version. no more, no less.
The reason people play a Star Trek game is because they like Star Trek. If the IP didn't matter I could be off playing Eve Online.
I seriously doubt that considering what Eve Online is like. It might be true about other space MMOs though. Gameplay matters just as much as IP. IP brings in the players, but gamplay and content keeps them there. If Star Trek Online was like Eve Online, then a lot of players would try Star Trek Online, but move on to other things due to Eve Online effectively being a second job. You might be one of the few people that finds Eve Online fun, but not most Star Trek Online players.
The 5 or 6 people that keep bringing this tired old argument up does not constitute the majority. And if the demand was so huge why is it you hardly see anyone in game flying the thing. I always see people in every other ship, almost never that one. Aaaand finally, this thread isn't about that anyway, this is a thread started by someone as a anti Miranda/connie argument thread, you people already have 3 or 4 hundred pro Miranda/connie threads that no one ever response to. Stop trying to hijack other people's threads in an attempt to force your stuff down everyone else's throats
And really, what do you care whats ships people use? No one's forcing you to use a ship you don't want to use - be that Miranda, Connie, D'kora, Jem'hadar, or whatever.
Second, this thread is 3 months and nearly 300 posts old. It's purpose, as most thread's purpose, has mutated in that time. Deal with it.
And finally, calling someone a troll simply because they disagree with you doesn't do much to show you have any character.
STO is here to make many thousands of people happy, even when what they want differs from what you want. That's the point of compromise.
and hijacking a thread in order to force your opinions and beliefs does?
This is the --->"ANTI",<---- Miranda/ Connie thread. That was the intent of it when the person started it, it was just derailed to force an opinion, that shows no class and I'm sure anyone would agree with me, as far as this being an old thread, all the T5 Miranda/Connie threads are old, it's an old subject that's ran it's course and most people are tired of seeing it, so what do you hope to accomplish by digging up that dead horse again? Face it, there will never, ever, by a T5 Miranda or Connie, if they had any plans what so ever of doing it, we'd be seeing them by now, the fact is PWE has absolutely no interest in making them.
It could be as simple as the Devs are tired about players asking for Tier 5 Connies so they are trying to get them off their backs. If the devs wanted to add Tier 5 Connies, Mirandas, and NXs and had authorization, then it would just require them to figure out what stats they should have. I wouldn't be surprised if it just took an afternoon to add them. So the only issue with these ships is CBS authorization and should these ships be comparable to Tier 5 ships. It might be easier to try for T3 Connies. A lot of the T5 Connie naysayers would lose their stance when it comes to T3 Connies.
Personally, that seems like modifying a Model T Ford and trying to race it against a Formula 1 Race Car. The modified Model T Ford would do far better than a working unmodified Model T Ford, but it won't perform anywhere close to the Formula 1 Race Car's performance.
Do keep in mind that making a T5 Connie could be as easy as copy/pasting any existing ship, say the T5 Recon Science Vessel, then editing two things - Ensign BOff station to "universal", ship graphic to "Constitution". Any half-decent intern could do this, for free. They'd probably spend more time updating the C-store to hold the ship than they spent "building" it... :P
And here I thought STO was actually an MMORPG. Even if a lot of people "play" the RPG portion as plain extensions of them-self or the "strong/sexy silent type"... At the same time, while some people (the RP-ers), as you say, "dork it up" in social zones (ESD, Drozana, etc.), I don't see hundreds (or even dozens) of Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, etc. "clones", even though many people's characters attempt to be "contemporaries" of these captains...
Nice built in contradiction. T1 -> T5 is "not much of an improvement" then saying that we are given an improved ship at L10 because T1's are supposed to be nothing more than "tutorial ships"... By that logic, Cryptic has no need to design T5.5 Lockbox or Fleet ships because the marginal improvement given by one is "negligible"... Yet I saw a thread somewhere that a Recluse needs to put out a "parse-able 25k DPS" to be considered an "elite" pilot while Luna pilots are "elite" at 10k or 15k...
Hence our pleas for T5 Connies / Mirandas / NXs. Because there is a demonstrable improvement, and we do need that level of improvement to "remain remotely competitive" in endgame - Elite Fleet loadouts on the T1 ships just don't cut it...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Romulans, Klingons, and Vulcans have been making ships for far longer than humans have so their designs have matured to the point where future changes don't require a completely new design for a specific ship type. As far as Tier 2 ships go, Tier 2 Escorts and Tier 2 Science Vessels have Tier 5 versions and they were first created in the 24th Century. Tier 2 Cruisers were first created in the 23rd Century and there is no Tier 5 version of them. The Model T Ford and the 22nd and 23rd Century Starfleet ships are immature designs so they don't disagree with my assessment. If there was a Fleet Cruiser Retrofit, then it might disagree with my assessment.
There is also the issue of do these ships compare to regular Tier 5 versions. If a Retrofit is far better than a regular Tier 5 ship, then it might disagree with my assessment. So is a Escort Retrofit better than a Patrol Escort?
What contradiction? Check the base stats, there is only minor stats differences between a standard ship and it's tier 5 fleet counterpart, now, taking that into consideration, logic dictates that the same would apply to the Miranda and Constitution, so therefore, as T5 ships go those would be at the bottom of the barrel stats wise compared to any other T5 ship and no they are not going to give those ships any sort of special treatment by giving them a stats bump that they don't offer the other ships simply because a few people want it. I want a cloaking device for my Odyssey, will I get one? doubtful, we all want something but we're not going to get it, deal with it, move on, and would a mod close this thread already, it's so old it's grandkids are dead.
Starfleet has been human-centric for over a century. Look at TOS, TNG, and Voyager. The humans clearly outnumber the aliens. There is also an issue with multiple races working together to design a ship. Any design created from that collaboration would be immature from the start. We lost a Mars probe because of that type of collaboration due to different groups of people working together and not compensating appropriately. That is just a project done by various nations on Earth. If humans and aliens tried to create a ship together, then there would be tons of problems and it would require doing quite a few ships until the designs are at a mature enough level. Vulcan ships are not the same as Starfleet ships. So Vulcan ship designs have matured over the centuries requiring little change while Starfleet ships would be immature and take centuries to achieve a mature design.
Canonically rationalizing is part of what a Star Trek fan is about and saying there is no reason for canonically rationalizing is denying that part of being a Star Trek fan.
Where is your evidence of the Shikahr class being a 25th Century ship design? The Centaur is obviously a 24th Century ship design and the Miranda is obviously a 23rd Century ship design, but the Shikahr is a purely Cryptic creation so there is no evidence when it was built or what it is capable of.
Anything after this is irrelevant, it is based on an untrue premise.
There is a LARGE difference between a "standard" and T5 Fleet ship. Heck, there are huge differences between T5 Fleet ships of the same ship category.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!